How Intuition Built a Coaching Business for CEOs | Jamie Shapiro

In this episode of Success Leaves Clues (formerly Career Coaching Secrets), Pedro sits down with Jamie Shapiro, Master Certified Executive Leadership Coach, organizational psychologist, and author of Brilliant: Be the Leader Who Shines Brightly Without Burning Out. Jamie shares her journey from a corporate IT executive role to building a coaching practice focused on CEOs of public companies and executive teams.

They explore her unconventional approach to business, where she follows intuition, takes aligned action, and pivots quickly when something feels misaligned. Jamie opens up about the early struggles of building her coaching business, unlearning corporate and MBA-driven models, and finding a more organic way to grow.

The conversation dives deep into leadership under pressure, preventing burnout, building high-performance teams, and integrating well-being into executive success. Jamie also shares how she scaled her impact by moving from individual coaching to building a team of coaches, creating a system that supports entire leadership ecosystems.

Connect with

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-shapiro/
Website: https://connectedec.com/

Transcript

Jamie Shapiro 0:00

In taking a step in a direction and seeing if miracles happen around you. Meaning, if you take a step in a direction and the path feels like it opens, that's how I've really run my company and thought about business. Now, sometimes I get on panels and we talk about business and I share this and people get frustrated because they're like, no, no, no, talk about what you did from your MBA. And I'm like, well, it's more just about following the path for me and just seeing what unfolds when you take a step in that direction. And if I notice that I'm banging my head against the wall, I will pivot and I'll pivot quickly because that feels misaligned. So I got to this moment where I just kept resisting. I started to notice how much I was resisting and I said, okay, I'm gonna take one small step in that direction and see how it feels. And I took one small step and it just felt like everything opened up in such a beautiful way.

Davis Nguyen 0:43

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro Stein 1:14

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today I'm with Jamie Shapiro, a master certified executive leadership coach, organizational psychologist, and Bass Sally author of Brilliant Be the Leader Who Shines Brightly Without Burning Out. Working closely with CEOs of public companies and their executive teams on performance and leadership under pressure. Her perspective is shaped by decades inside large-scale corporate environments and personal experience with burnout. Jamie has been coaching and developing high-performing teams since 1998, combining executive experience with research-driven insights around energy, performance, and long-term impact. What makes her work stand out is the way she bridged leadership effectiveness with personal sustainability, helping leaders operate at a high level without disconnecting from what matters most. Welcome to the show, Jamie. Thank you, Pedro. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, great to have you. You know, I'm a comic book nerd and I love the origin stories. Okay, so this is the moment I like to rewind a bit. Okay. Because every coach has that moment where they look at their life and say, Yeah, I guess this is what I'm doing now, right? So when was that for you, Jamie?

Jamie Shapiro 2:38

Well, I had a corporate career that I loved in many ways. I loved the leadership side, I loved the human side of it. I was an IT executive, and so I thought the technology side of it was fun. But I always felt like something was missing. There was always that little voice that was talking to me saying, you're meant to do something else. This isn't quite it. And I was so passionate about the people side. I was sure that if anyone found out that I wasn't as excited about the technology, that I was more excited about the people, that I would be found out in some way. But I just realized I had always had a passion for psychology. And when I finally started to unwind my corporate identity, which took some time, I really opened the space to ask, what do I really want in this life? What do I really believe is my gift that I want to share? And I went straight for coaching because that had been the thing that kept popping up in my life over and over again is what I was meant to do. So I left my corporate job and I went into the world of coaching. And I am blissfully happy here.

Pedro Stein 3:43

Okay. Now I want to dive into a little bit more about something I call the shift. Okay. Okay. Because at the early days in coaching, I'm not sure if that was your experience, but sometimes we see a lot of people that are like moving from I'm helping people, I'm trying to help everyone, to I'm building a real business around this, right? So when did that shift happen for you? Is it like the first paying client? Is it the first invoice? You know, is it when you establish your business? You know, so how did that play out for you?

Jamie Shapiro 4:09

Well, I always say starting a business is a little bit like pushing a boulder uphill, hoping it doesn't crush you, getting to the flat part and eventually getting to chase it downhill. And when I was pushing the boulder uphill, it almost crushed me multiple times. Because even though I had left my corporate world and thought I'd unraveled a lot of that corporate identity that I held on so tightly, I didn't. And so I went and I started my coaching business. And I was like, oh, this is a startup company. And these are all the things I learned to do in my MBA for a startup company. And I need to get an investor and I need to have somebody that's running sales and marketing and I need to do this and this. And it did not work at all. It was a, it was like almost a complete failure. And I had to unwind a lot of what I thought this was supposed to be. And when you go through coaching and you get certified as a coach, some schools are gonna teach you the business side of it, some schools aren't. They're gonna teach you the poor pure coaching skills. But I kind of went into the business side of it with the wrong model and paradigm. So I had to unwind that in order to actually create a successful company. And that meant focusing on me as a coach first and what I wanted to do, not necessarily trying to build faster than I actually could. I made a lot of mistakes along the way and eventually got to a point where I realized I just need to do my work in the world and allow this to unfold in a much more natural, aligned way than what I was doing, which was a little bit like forcing, forcing a model that actually wasn't this model.

Pedro Stein 5:44

It sounds like it was almost like you're thinking about the offers and trying to fit in Jamie's style, and it's kind of backwards, right? And then you you were like, No, actually, I want to give a step back, think how this actually works for me, and then think about an offer. Something like that.

Jamie Shapiro 5:59

Yeah, absolutely. And it was the moment that there was a quote, and I have no idea where this quote came from, but it just stuck with me, which is you're not the pilot, you're the plane. Um, and what that was for me was you need to surrender, like surrender to the path and let that unfold. And it doesn't mean you're not hustling and working hard and doing the things you need to do to build a business, but it's trying to allow, at least for me, to be more in flow and more in alignment with who I was becoming versus who I used to be. Okay.

Pedro Stein 6:30

Now, after you got rolling, right, Jamie, who are the people that kept showing up? You know, because in the yarly days, as we were talking, coaching space, sometimes the coaches, and not saying this is your experience, but sometimes they're like trying to help every single person in their own way, right? But eventually, and not sure if that happened, they find their own tribe, even if they're niching down or not. So who are the people that kept showing up? You know, the ones you realize, okay, this is my tribe.

Jamie Shapiro 6:57

Yeah, it's such a great question. And it makes me think of something my first publisher said to me when I was writing my book. She said, if you speak to one person when you're writing, it will resonate with everyone. But if you try and speak to everyone, it resonates with no one. I was really fortunate because when I started coaching, I was unusually clear on exactly who I wanted to work with, and that was CEOs of public companies. And so that was what I shared with the world of where my specialization was then and is today. And I just have a real passion for coaching those leaders and the impact that they make in organizations.

Pedro Stein 7:33

Okay. So let's pretend I'm one, I'm your ICP, right? I'm your ideal client profile. And uh, first of all, how did I uh do people usually find you? How would I be able to find you, you know, marketing-wise?

Jamie Shapiro 7:45

Yeah, it's all word of mouth. Um, we didn't do any marketing whatsoever until a couple years ago. We started actually sharing more and I started sharing more on social media. But the way that I built this business was, you know, our organization is unique in the sense that we're super specialized, but we're also really unique in that we integrate well-being and leadership. So, well-being is the foundation of everything we teach in how you get to your peak performance, your capacity, your energy as a leader. So that was really unique, especially when I started the company. In fact, it was so unique that people didn't know what bucket to put me in. They kept saying, Are you a wellness coach? Are you a leadership coach? And when I said yes, that was just a strange thing at the time. And so what I realized was I needed to get out and speak about what we were up to and why it mattered. So the way that I built this business was very much just putting myself out there and sharing, and I, and that is a certainly a form of marketing, but I was speaking a lot at different events and sharing this idea of why well-being is so foundational to how we show up as leaders. And so then it was really about word of mouth. For the majority of the company's growth, it's been all word of mouth. And then just recently we started really doing and ramping up a little bit more and sharing more about the company just to get awareness built for the organization. Okay.

Pedro Stein 9:10

Now let's do a quick exercise. Let's pretend I resonated with your social media, whatever you got outside there, or even I was referred by someone, and they're like, hey, you should talk with Jim. You should check connect at EC, right? That's the name of your business. Yes. And I'm like, okay. So I went through the sales process. Let's let's take some shortcuts. Okay. There's alignment. I understand there are potentially multiple offers, but I want you to pick the main one, okay? Or the one you wanna you want to talk more about. Now let's pretend I'm closing. I'm I was I'm an onboarding, you know, on boarded as a client, right? So walk me through from a client's perspective, how does it look like to work with your company and the potential outcomes I can expect out of it?

Jamie Shapiro 9:52

That's great. Well, we spend a lot of time listening in the beginning, like every coach does, right? We go through a full discovery process of really understanding goals and who you are as a human, not just who you are as a leader. And that is unique in the sense that we're gonna ask everything from how you're sleeping, how you're eating, how you're moving to how you're leading and your strategy, your communication, your team. I mean, we tend to get referrals more than anything because when people cold call us, they say, You do what? You're gonna talk to all these different people in my life, not just the business. Um, you're gonna ask me about what I'm eating for breakfast. So it's really, you know, when a referral comes to us, they already know that we're gonna go multiple layers down. We also have a different business model than a lot of coaches do. We we really believe in partnership in the sense that we wanna be that phone call, be available for our leaders. The speed at which the business is going every other week isn't really a great business model for us. So we meet with our clients every single week. We talk to them whenever they need, whether that's text or email, and we get really integrated into their worlds, both professionally and personally. So it's a different business model. It's not the right one for every client, which is why I think the referral side of this has been more successful than anything else. Um, and so that first part is really getting to understand who you are personally, personally, understanding the goals, what you're hoping to get out of coaching. And then as much as I would love to say that you and I are gonna know everything about you, we know that's not true. And so we've got to do a really comprehensive 360, make sure we're interviewing and understanding the ecosystem that you are working in, the team that reports to you with different parts. You know, a lot of times we're interviewing board members and just getting a really good sense of who you are as a leader, as well as anyone in your life personally that deeply knows you and can provide that insight as well. So that gives us a starting point, right? Between our conversations and the 360, um, we have a couple of assessment tools we do as well. I'm a researcher, so we're gonna give you a couple of different assessments, understand your preferences around personality, um, and just get a sense of anything we can from a data perspective to make sure that we're going into the partnership in a way that feels really, really deeply aligned and clear. Because we want you to get a great ROI on your investment in coaching. So that's the start of the engagement. And then it's just that full partnership. And that's our model. We don't do contracts that are less than a year. We really fundamentally believe that if you want to go through transformation and behavioral change, it takes time. And as much as we'd love to say in six months we're gonna do that, that's usually not the case. And after doing this for long enough, I can tell you every time I did a six-month contract, it was only to do more paperwork at six months to do a longer contract.

Pedro Stein 12:45

Okay. Now here's here comes the first curveball. Okay.

Jamie Shapiro 12:48

Okay. I love curveball.

Pedro Stein 12:50

Prepare yourself, okay? Because I see a lot of coaches out there and they advocate against burnout, right? It's all about that. And sometimes they're burning out themselves because they're wearing a lot of hats. Sometimes they're it's such a passion-driven uh profession that they don't even feel like it's work. And now they're looking at themselves, they're working way, way too many hours, right? So, my question to you is, and I know you have a team, okay? And you're because your work seems pretty hands-on. We're talking about a customized experience somewhat like that.

Jamie Shapiro 13:21

Absolutely.

Pedro Stein 13:22

How do you think about capacity so you don't stretch yourself too thin?

Jamie Shapiro 13:26

It's so great. Thank you for asking. I have to walk my talk and live my research, right? And if I wasn't, then that would be a problem. So there's a couple things. Number one, I don't take on many clients, no more than five at a time, which means that unfortunately I can't take on more clients as much as I'd like to. It's no my own capacity because I like to go very deep within an organization. So I'm really clear on what that looks like. But I'm also running a company, right? So I need to understand how I can do both things and allocate my time in the right areas. I am methodical and really diligent about how I care for myself and my energy. So I know how much sleep I need. I know what my morning routine needs to look like. I know what my nutrition needs to look like in order to have the right capacity. And I just do not compromise myself. I do not compromise my vitality. And I'm really clear on the because I went through burnout multiple times in the corporate world. I know those beginning signs. I know that moment where it feels like, ooh, that's a little too much. And I'm starting to feel that energy depletion. And the first question I ask myself, which I ask my clients all the time, how do you get better energy back in? It's timeout. What do you need to get energy back in? So I have really been very thoughtful in my life around what are those things that bring me energy, that bring me joy. And it's little things that you wouldn't think about very often. My favorite one recently, um, no laughing. There's a place in my yard I like to lay in the grass and look at the clouds. And that's a practice I did when I was probably five or six years old that I hadn't revisited for a very long time. And then just want, I have two dogs. One day I'm outside and I'm just like laying in the grass. I'm like, my gosh, I feel so replenished by this moment. And it just made me realize like, okay, during the day, if I'm home, I do travel a lot. But if I'm home, I'm gonna go lay in the grass and look up at the clouds and hang out with my dogs. Even if that's for five minutes, that's gonna get energy back in. So I really challenge my clients, whether it's a cup of tea or a walk around the block or just a moment to pet your dog, anything that's gonna bring energy back in. I want my clients thinking about that as much as I think about that, because I couldn't do what I do every day without really caring for myself in the morning the way that I do, being thoughtful for the day around my energy. And really, you know, I my daughter, I have teenagers. My daughter is always making fun of me because I go to bed so early, but I also wake up early. So, like knowing your own biorhythms and understanding what is optimized for you is another thing I work on for myself, but also for my clients. And then I'm a data nerd. So like I've got an aura ring on, and so I'm tracking these things to make sure I'm not deluding myself either, right? Because we can get delusional sometimes.

Pedro Stein 16:14

Okay, yeah, it sounds like I need to find something like that for me. The problem is, is like I'm the podcast host, right? And I'm also a coach. And sometimes I feel energized by having this type of conversations, and that's a kind of a dangerous lane to be at because it's like it is work, right? But it's fun at the same time. And that's that that's the hard part to set the boundary, right? It's not like burning out from corporate days and I was just part of a machine, right? Right. So, how do I set those boundaries if you're having so much fun doing the stuff at which is work?

Jamie Shapiro 16:45

Yeah, it's such a great question. I feel the same way. I love what I do. I deeply, deeply enjoy working with my clients, getting out there and getting to work with teams. All of that brings me energy. But I also know that if I did that without caring for me, for my physical body and mind, body, heart, and spirit, all of those areas that eventually I would lose myself in the process. There's so much to energy, right? It's what lights us up, it's what gives us joy, but it's also what keeps us healthy, right? And so there's that piece of it that I think about as well is yes, I want to be energized and be fueled by what brings me joy. I also want to keep this body, it's the, you know, it's the only house that I'll have forever. I also want to keep it in really good shape. And so that's you know how I think about those two things is yes, my work brings me energy and joy, but my physical body needs that energy.

Pedro Stein 17:41

That makes sense. That makes sense. Okay. I want to highlight I I wanna, you know, go for a deep dive in your experience and highlight something that I feel like the listeners could really benefit from it. And it's kind of a hot topic in the coaching space, which is pricing, right? But I'm not talking about hard numbers, I'm talking about the mindset behind it, right? For example, the pricing bit is a very self-worth path for the coach. Sometimes he feels like it's not charging enough, sometimes it's feeling like it's charging too much and placing himself out of the market. So, how do you think about it today, you know? And were there any lessons along the way that shape how you land at where you are right now, exclusively talking about the pricey mindset behind it, you know?

Jamie Shapiro 18:22

Okay. I have strong opinions here, so I'm sorry, but I I don't say what everyone else says. I don't think anybody should be doing hourly coaching. I just don't. I think it's a bad business model. And I think you get caught in serving way too many clients under that model. And I think our value as coaches goes far beyond the hourly rates that a lot of coaches are thinking about. So I just think about what is going to make you feel like you are giving in a way that is sustaining you and truly matching the value you're providing. And that's not an hourly rate, especially if you're thinking about the deeper connection, which is what I think a lot about, and I think many of us coaches do, where clients reach out to us, right? You know, that's not the one-hour session, it's the in-betweens, it's the emails, it's the text messages, it's the resources that we're providing on a regular basis. I am definitely a coach consultant hybrid. So I, and our whole company is, right? We are really focused on both things. We want to ask great questions, help illuminate the wisdom within our clients, but we also want to share expertise and be able to provide those resources. So I want coaches to think about their entire service offering, not just as an hourly conversation, but all of the things that we're offering our clients and think about that as a package. And then think about that as what's the arc? You know, everybody has a different arc to their coaching. If your arc is the six-month window, great. That didn't end up being our arc at all. It was definitely a yearly window for us that tend to renew year over year because there was a lot of value there. That's different for each person. So I want people to think about what is their offering, right? You know, one of our coaches, they do a really specialized offering for onboarding for executives. That's really unique. And that's a 90-day window versus a year-long window. So other people may have an offering that is, you know, better in that six-month package. But again, what's the broader offering, not the hourly coaching rate? What's the thing that you're, what are all the things you're offering your clients and think about it from that standpoint instead of the just hour?

Pedro Stein 20:39

Got it. I love the strong opinion on it. Okay. Now I'm curious about where we're taking all this, Jamie. You know, looking ahead, where do you see the business going? Are you thinking about scaling, hiring, or is there a next step you're excited about?

Jamie Shapiro 20:52

Yeah, I never anticipated that we would be the size of company we are today. I'm very, very grateful for where we are today and the opportunity to work with such incredible coaches. We have about 20 coaches on our team. And we do specialize just with the C-suite. So we do have a very small niche that we focus on, but we are continuing to grow as an organization. And I think we will be on that trajectory for a little while. We've also created a in partnership with an organization called Principles, we've created an assessment platform for teams, high-performing teams, and really understanding cultures and having a measurement for both of those and being able to have the tools and a roadmap for coaches and clients to utilize. So that part of the business has really just started to take off. So I see us continuing to scale for sure. Um, and that's really exciting to me.

Pedro Stein 21:50

Okay. Now you mentioned something that really caught my attention, right? I already knew that, but I feel like this could really help the audience. Like you mentioned, you have 20 coaches, right? And I I see a lot of coaches out there that they are kind of icky to let go a little bit of the work, you know, and bring in coaches, the first coaches under their wing. Because they're like afraid and they're not gonna do the same the same way they do, you know, and there's a lot of fear around scaling a coaching business. How did that play out for you? And if you have any advice for anyone listening that is on the fence of bringing their first coach, for example.

Jamie Shapiro 22:25

Well, I resisted like crazy. Let me just say that for a really, really long time because I had all the fear. I had all the fear around what about my brand and how is that gonna work? And how will the methodologies line up and what's that gonna look like? And I don't know if that will be fulfilling for me. And so I resisted um and kept digging my heels in and kept getting pushed actually by different coaches and clients saying, Jamie, like we want you to do something different here. Like there's so much value in coaching as a system, not just an individual. And I am a very deeply spiritual person. So I'm a big believer in taking a step in a direction and seeing if miracles happen around you. Meaning, if you take a step in a direction and the path feels like it opens, that's how I've really run my company and thought about business. Now, sometimes I get on panels and we talk about business and I share this, and people get frustrated because they're like, no, no, no, talk about what you did from your MBA. And I'm like, well, it's more just about following the path for me and just seeing what unfolds when you take a step in that direction. And if I notice that I'm banging my head against the wall, I will pivot and I'll pivot quickly because that feels misaligned. So I got to this moment where I just kept resisting. I started to notice how much I was resisting. And I said, okay, I'm gonna take one small step in that direction and see how it feels. And I took one small step and it just felt like everything opened up in such a beautiful way. And I started getting connected to some of the most incredible coaches that wanted to be a part of what we were creating together. I had no idea what I was creating back then. And I was really honest and open with the coaches that I connected with. And I said, I don't know where this is going, which is never what you want to hear from a leader. But that was the truth. I was just really speaking my truth. I don't know where this is going. I'm taking a step in this direction and seeing what we can co-create together, but I don't know yet. And we just kept coming together in a way that really was collaborative and thinking about how do we create the most benefit for the clients that are asking us to coach as a system. And what ended up unfolding is that our team surrounds their team and we are an integrated coaching system. We're not sharing confidential information, but we are working as a team. And so I have had more joy than I ever could have imagined by opening up and saying yes to this. Now, does it come with challenges? Of course it does. It's it's going to come with challenges, which means I've had to like take what's in my brain and some of our methodology, get it on paper, create the right resources, have the conversations so there's consistency. Make sure there's the process backbone of the organization. Make sure that we are communicating effectively. All of that needed to happen. I suck at process, like full on. It is not my jam. So I needed to bring someone on that could help me with that. And I think the other thing I'll say when you're thinking about scaling is don't worry if you can't do it, right? Don't worry if it's not your sweet spot. Bring the people around you that want to help you grow and think differently and can take on some of that. We have someone that does all of our operations because I'm not great at it. It's just not what I do. And so that's what I would encourage people to think.

Pedro Stein 25:46

I appreciate that. Okay. And we were talking about future. And whenever we're aiming towards the next chapter, always something under hood that we're working on, right? So what are you currently trying to improve or tighten up in your business right now?

Jamie Shapiro 26:00

A lot of things. It's funny. Sometimes my clients will ask me, Do you have coaches? Do you work with coaches? I'm like, yes. At the moment, I have four. I had five a couple weeks ago. I have a parenting coach because I uh have teenagers. Um, and so I knew I needed some help there. Um, I have a business coach that helps me think about the business and how I need to grow and evolve as a CEO of the company. And then I have really started to put myself back out there as a keynote speaker. And I literally have three speaking coaches that have been helping me evolve my stage presence, my speaking style to be able to share my vision even more now at this stage in the business. So I am working all of the time on my own growth and development. I just, as coaches, I feel like we we gotta walk our talk, right? I mean, just like I was talking about the well-being side, we are asking our clients to grow every single day. And so, how are we asking ourselves to grow? Now, if you knew me two years ago, you would know that I was terrified of social media. I never wanted to do it, and it was the last thing on my radar. And that was another piece that I've been learning over the last um, I would say, year. I partner with an amazing organization that has helped me really put myself out there, my work, my research, my thought leadership. And so I have really been stretching myself at this phase of the business more than I ever imagined. And I love it and I hate it because growth hurts. And I love it because it's the challenge that we need and it's what makes us better coaches. But man, it has been a really huge moment for me as growing and trying to become what I need to become in order to serve our clients and this business at the highest level.

Pedro Stein 27:47

Gotta practice while we preach, right?

Jamie Shapiro 27:50

Sometimes as hard as it is, man. Sometimes I'm like, can we stop growing, please, for three seconds?

Pedro Stein 27:55

I mean, it's called comfort zone for a reason, right? I want to keep there, I want to be there, but yeah, it's part of it, right? For growth to happen, you gotta step outside. So yeah, it's just part of it. Now, I want to tap into your experience for a second. I do. Okay. So because people listening can really benefit from this, you know. Been in the game long enough to hear all kinds of business advice. Some are good, some are bad. I'll put it like that, okay? Yeah. Of course. So, what's one piece of business advice you hear all the time, Jamie, that you think is overrated?

Jamie Shapiro 28:27

I think the biggest piece of advice that I kept getting along the way that I thought was actually overrated was people told me that I was too specialized. That if you specialize too much, right, that that's gonna limit your ability to grow and your potential. So that was something I heard a lot. Like, why are you only specializing in this area? And that was bad advice. Specialization for me made it so clear and makes my experience feel so much more resonant to the people I serve. So that was one piece. I think we always get the advice around, you know, know your numbers, know your financials, have your projections, do your budgets, blah, blah, blah. Um, and yes, that's a hundred percent what I learned in education. And that's what I learned in the business world. I did not do that. I was much more, and listen, it's good business advice. It's just business advice I didn't exactly listen to because when I was trying to do projections and it just was draining my energy versus infusing me. And so I let this business grow organically instead of forcing numbers that I was chasing after. And I get it. Like I'm sure people would look at me and say, wow, that's not how you run a company. It's how I've run my company and just allowed things to be more organic and not, I don't look and go into my organizations that I partner with and look for opportunities to grow. I just don't. I wait for organizations to come to me and say, Hey, can you help me with this? And then I'm like, Yeah, actually we can. So it's a little bit of a backwards model, and yet it feels energetically so much more aligned for me. Now there are people out there that that's the opposite, right? And so I think part of what I want people to do is listen to their own energy and themselves and what lights you up and what feels like the right way to grow a business. For me, I'm not a I'm not a hunter. Like I'm not somebody that's out there looking for business. I am much more of somebody who wants to build something great. And if it's the right thing for people and they come to me, then it works. So just a little bit different. I think both pieces of advice are helpful. It depends on you as a leader and as an individual, what works for you. And I think that's one of the problems is that there's all this blanket advice, and we've got to listen to our own wisdom, just like we teach our clients, right? We're asking questions to bring our clients' wisdom forward, but we often don't trust our own wisdom and our own energy and our own flow because there's so much advice out there. And I think there are a lot of people out there that are trying to help coaches, and I sometimes feel like it's unhelping coaches.

Pedro Stein 31:01

I agree with that. About the niching part, it's like sometimes I think it comes from the place that the the people who opposes it. It comes from the scarcity place, like, oh, I'm gonna miss a lot of clients, gonna leave a lot on the table. But at the end of the day, it helps with positioning, it helps with the messaging because it's makes so much easier, and and also it's easier, it's harder for them to compare you to, right? Because you have such a you're the go-to to solve X, Y, and Z for X, Y, and Z type of person. So it's harder to who else I'm gonna talk besides Jamie, right? Or connect that. Now, yeah. On the other side, what's a piece of advice you wish more people actually took seriously?

Jamie Shapiro 31:40

Pretty woo. So I'll just say I want people to listen to the woo, you know, listen to their own intuition more. I am a woo plus data plus science kind of girl, and I know that's an odd combination. And I really appreciate the data and the evidence. And there's also this part of us that if we listen to more that deep intuition, that deep level of knowing, we have the answers. And so I think that's ignored a lot in business. And I think we all could use some more woo in our life. More woo. I love that.

Pedro Stein 32:14

Okay. And if someone listening wants to connect with you or follow your work, and we're gonna have all the links in the description, okay? It's just uh the best way so people can find you and connect with you, or even connected at EC. Sorry, connect at AC.

Jamie Shapiro 32:27

Yeah, uh, our website's great. Um we have a lot of info there. And then on LinkedIn, I'm really active and I post on a regular basis. And um, I think LinkedIn is probably the other best place.

Pedro Stein 32:39

Okay. You know, Jamie, there were a few moments from this chat that really stayed with me or put it like that. Okay. The first one, we were talking about the origin story, and that little voice told you, this is actually not it, Jamie. You've gotta try to find something different for you. I really love that because it comes from uh an intention uh point of view, right? Of what you really want to do with your life. And it it kind of aligns with what you do today, right? And and how you serve your client. So that's one thing. I really love your strong opinion about the hourly rate. And I have a personal personal background on it. And uh the reason I love it is because I'm a coach too, right? So I help Brazilians and jobs internationally in the tax space, and also a podcast host. But I when I joined uh Purple Sorgo to do the podcast as a podcast host, I was doing everything backwards, right? I was charging by the hour. And what happened is that I was turning myself into a commodity. So people start comparing me to the cleaning lady, to the dentist, because they were just trying to understand the hourly rate. And also on top of it, there is no magic that happens when the clock hits the 60-minute mark. And also, on top of that one, it feels weird, right? Like if I'm ending the session five minutes earlier, do I need to give them money back? And if I if I'm ending five minutes later, should they pay me more? It just got us into a weird mess.

Jamie Shapiro 34:03

I'm with you. It's so weird.

Pedro Stein 34:06

It's so weird, right? So I'm right there with you two on that. So same opinion. It's about I think at the end of the day, it's about the outcome and the transformation you can make for your clients and all that. So that's one. I really love the bit you mentioned about the scaling and hiring coaches and all that. Yeah, and and the re the reason I love it really is because it felt so organic and so naturally, right? Happening uh for you. Like, for example, people are asking you, hey, coaching as a system and not just as an individual for you makes more sense because you could be, you know, creating that ripple effect. And at the end of the day, you test it, right? It's not like, yes, 100%. I'm gonna start building this module, and everything's gonna fly out and everything's gonna be perfect. Not like that. It's just, you know, I'm gonna try that. And if it lands, we're going from there, right? And it landed. Thankfully. That's great. So this is my long-winded way of saying, Jamie, that I appreciate what you do, and I appreciate you being here sharing so well-billing today. It was great having you on.

Jamie Shapiro 35:04

I loved it. It's so nice to talk with you. This was a blast. So thank you so much for having me. Likewise.

Davis Nguyen 35:10

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This podcast was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, or even $100,000 weeks, all without burning out and making sure that you're making the impact and having the life that you want. To learn more about our community and how we can help you, visit join purplecircle.com, you can't get a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.