The Hidden Mistakes Keeping Entrepreneurs From Growing with Rob Craven

In this episode of Success Leaves Clues (formerly Career Coaching Secrets) our guest is Rob Craven, an experienced business growth expert, speaker, and leadership strategist who shares powerful insights on scaling a business, building stronger teams, improving leadership, and creating long-term success without burnout. Rob breaks down the mindset, strategy, and practical systems that help entrepreneurs and professionals move from surviving to truly growing in today’s competitive world. Whether you're a business owner, coach, leader, or someone looking to level up your career, this conversation is packed with actionable advice and real-world experience you can apply immediately.

You can find him on:
https://scalepassion.com/
https://robcravenscalepassion.substack.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertucraven
https://www.instagram.com/rob_craven_scalepassion/

Transcript

Rob Craven 0:00

I get a lot of calls from folks who want me to help them get a job. I have a very good network. And so they're like, Can you help me get a job? I'm like, yeah, what do you want to do? And they're like, well, I'll do anything. I'll do it. You know, I've got this background. I've got, you know, this kind of thing. I'm like, no, I'm not going to help you get a job until you tell me specifically what you want. Like, what gives you energy? What would be the ideal job? Like, narrow it down.

Davis Nguyen 0:21

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro Stein 0:52

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today I'm joined by Rob Craven, who works with founders who have climbed the ladder and grown their businesses but still feel a gap or void, sometimes experiencing imposter syndrome, overwhelm, or burnout. What drew me to Rob's work is his recognition that success doesn't automatically eliminate the internal struggles that high achieving leaders face. Even when everything looks perfect from the outside, Rob specializes in self-leadership and transformation, helping move individuals, teams, and entire organizations from status quo to stratosphere through insights that address the fundamental disconnect between external achievement and internal fulfillment. His approach tackles the question of who helps the helpers, providing leaders with the tools to serve their teams from a place of authentic strength rather than hidden struggle. Welcome to the show, Rob.

Rob Craven 1:57

Thank you, Pedro. That's one of the best introductions I've ever had. I appreciate that. I might have to record it and use it.

Pedro Stein 2:02

Well, Rob, you're the one to blame it. Okay. You built that. So there's that. So just a quick reminder. And you know, I'm kind of a comic book nerd. And when I see um that part of you said who helps the helpers, it thrills me back to the 80s with the Watchmen comic book, which I love. There's a quote that says, like, who watches the Watchmen? Right? It's like who takes care of us? Let's put it like that. Now, before we get into that, I want to know the origin story. And there, there, there, there it comes to the play, the comic book origin story, right? Now I'm curious how this all actually started with the coaching, you know? What was going in your life when coaching became more than just an idea?

Rob Craven 2:46

You know, it's funny. Uh, coaching means a lot to me. Uh, it's a it's a a loaded word because I think, you know, even as far back as when I worked for Procter and Gamble or Boston Scientific, I spent time coaching others around me, whether it be mentoring other salespeople or or even you know uh mentoring other leaders in the organization. Um, I went through a consulting phase, a pretty deep consulting phase before I became a CEO. So for the better part of a couple of decades, uh I spent time with at the helm of three very high growth companies, purpose-driven high growth companies as CEO. So even in that role, I would say I played the role of coach, coach, teacher, mentor. I'm a big believer that the leaders uh run the business, especially the second level down from the CEO. Um, so I I would say I've been a coach in that regard for a long, long time, you know, uh four decades. Uh I think the other, the other more practical term around coach, uh three and a half years full time. Uh before that, did some angel investing where I also played a coach role with the entrepreneurs. Uh, and then coaching in between, you know, a good CEO gets fired. Uh, and so in between my CEO gigs, I also just gravitated towards coaching. Now I would say for the past three and a half, four years, I've been officially building a coaching consulting firm. Uh, and it's been fantastic. I'm learning a ton uh uh along the way.

Pedro Stein 4:08

Okay, interesting. Yeah, we were talking about that uh before recording for the podcast episode. Now, I want to know one thing because there is an in and out, a foot in and a foot out, right? 17 years with scale passion. And then from the past 3.5 years, you really dialed in, right? So my question to you is at what point did it stop feeling like a side thing or a calling, even the coaching side, and start feeling like an actual business you are responsible for that you took the leap of faith, right? And now you're full gas on scale passion.

Rob Craven 4:42

Yeah, you know, I think if if you asked my wife, she'd probably say, Why don't you just stay in the CEO gig? You know, it's a it's a pretty good gig, you get benefits, uh, you know, it pays well. Uh I I I was blessed to lead a couple of companies through exits and that kind of thing. I think I I've always felt this calling towards purpose. And I'm and it's part of what I teach and what part of what we do at Scale Passion. And so for me to take my own medicine and really dive deep into purpose uh was a big part of my transition from my last CEO gig, which ended at the end of 2018, into the scale passion world. And I feel like my purpose is to help more than one company. And now I kind of define that as founders or entrepreneurs to have the courage, clarity, and conviction to scale up something that's meaningful to them, uh, that that is in alignment with their purpose. So that started off with uh, you know, a couple of coaching gigs, and then I felt the call to write a book. So I wrote Scale Passion. It launched uh two Januaries ago and have had some success with that. It's been a wonderful experience writing that book. And then I've been really blessed and fortunate to build a team around me here at Scale Passion that drops in to help these founders in in deep ways. So the the impetus was to do more with my purpose and to try to touch more than just the one company as CEO. Does that make sense, Pedro?

Pedro Stein 5:58

That makes a lot of sense. Okay. Now I want to dive in into, I would say, like, especially in the early days, okay? Because in the coaching space, we see a lot of coaches out there trying in the especially like I said, in the early days, trying to help everyone, right? You're coming from a CEO background, so that plays a little bit different on your end. You have like it sounds like you you can resonate more with the CEO, the C-suite, and the owners and the founders and all that. But I want to hear from you. Once you were out there helping people, right, who did you naturally end up and ended up attracting? You know, when did you did you realize, okay, this is my tribe, you know?

Rob Craven 6:37

Well, two out of the two out of the three successful CEO gigs that I ran were run by entrepreneurs. And I was able to get close to them and understand the founder challenges in a way that was very significant. Now, since then, I've coached over 200 entrepreneurs and and I go deep with probably about 20 a year, okay, uh, in terms of our client engagements. And I saw their struggles and I learned about this thing called the Adizus curve, is the guy, professor who mapped corporate life cycles. And he talks about courtship when the idea is born, and then there's like, you know, you you birth the baby, you go into infancy, that's the business. Then you go into go-go where the founder makes all the decisions. That's typically, you know, up to five or $10 million in sales. The founder is the person and they attract people around them. And so that works really well when the company is smaller and there's a lot of employees, and then you hit what's called the adolescent transition, where what got the founder here won't get him to the next level. And so I was really blessed to build three businesses through the adolescent transition and understand that founder challenge. So when I get with the chat, when I get with a founder and I sit down with him or her and start asking questions, I can predict what they're gonna say. I can be very Nostradamus-like. And so I'm able to get, I'm able to get trust with them very quickly because I understand their pain. I I see where they are. And so, and I've spent, you know, decades uh trying all the different approaches to solving this and have tried to simplify it down to some core principles, then I can then help them to navigate the transition. Uh, and that means several different things I won't go into unless you want to go there. But the goal is to I understand my market in a deep, deep way. And I know that's probably a simplistic way to think about it uh for your coaches that are listening. But there was a great book I read a long time ago called Book Yourself Solid. Uh, and it talks about the red velvet rope, like, you know, only only allowing people past that rope that brings you energy, that you connect with immediately, that sees who you are and understands that you are for them. And so I've done my best to stick to that principle uh and really only, and so the founders I work with now are those that are stuck. They're they're stuck either in what got me here won't get me there, their revenue might be stuck, or it might be the founder that's stuck from the standpoint of the companies outgrowing them. I mean, it's just massive revenue, or they brought in investors that you know they need to learn how to deal with an investor or a board. And so they're in that transition and they're stuck. And, you know, my team and I are able to go in and really help shake that loose and give them systems personally and corporately to help them scale through that.

Pedro Stein 9:13

Okay, you know, I'm gonna think out loud here for a second because I see a lot of coaches there, they they are kind of afraid to niche down, right? They're like, oh, I'm gonna leave a lot on the table and all of that. And when you told me what you just did, right? It sounds like that when you speak their language and you position yourself in such a niche, it's so much easier to connect with people. Do you think that's a powerful way to see the niche, you know, or do you see it in other in a different way? Like it's just that the way you framed it, it sounds like positioning, right? And it's a great way to connect with people.

Rob Craven 9:48

Yeah, I was at a networking event today, and oh, what do you do, Rob? And I'm like, Well, I work with founders where the company is outlet outgrown the founder, and a lot of times they're pulling their hair out and they're freaked out, and you know, and I'm I'm describing what I do, and I talked to one person who's like, Oh, you need to meet so-and-so immediately. Uh, you know, versus versus the the counter to that is oh, I consult or I coach executives. Okay, well, you know, what kind of executives and what problems do they have and what need is it? I I would, I would, I would liken this to another story I like to tell, which is I get a lot of calls from folks who want me to help them get a job. I have a very good network. And so they're like, Can you help me get a job? I'm like, Yeah, what do you want to do? And they're like, Well, I'll do anything. I'll do it. You know, I've got this background, I've got, you know, this kind of thing. I'm like, no, I'm not gonna help you get a job until you tell me specifically what you want. Like, what gives you energy? What would be the ideal job? Like, narrow it down. Is it a big company? Is it a little company? Is it a startup? Is it a, you know, what role is it? Are you managing people? Are you more strategic? Like, and so it I see it all the time where people try to broaden out to try to hit as many targets as they can. In actuality, you're just confusing people. You know, I'm I'm saying this from a spiritual standpoint, but there's a quote in the Bible that's all about lukewarm water gets spit out. Be cold, be hot. You know what I mean? Like, make a point. Don't try to be lukewarm. And so, and I also get a lot of passion for what I do, and I get a lot of passion for the people I do it with. And so, if you can tap into that passion and really identify who that is that you do that thing for, now you're coming with some energy. So, when I was at this networking event this morning, I'm talking about all the founders and they're like, Well, I know this founder that's ex. And I'm like, Yeah, that's exactly right. And we're connecting on something that's more energetic and more passion, more energy. Uh, and so I would like to think that's more memorable too.

Pedro Stein 11:38

It's like they they have they don't have to do any, you know, push-ups to translate what you're telling them. It's like obvious. It's like, oh, I know Jack, I know Joe. He he he definitely needs that, right? It's like it makes so much easier. Now, I want to do a quick exercise, right? Let's pretend I'm your ICP, I'm on your ideal client profile that we just discussed. Very familiar. Yep. So I love that. Now, how would I be able to find you in the first place, right? Marketing-wise.

Rob Craven 12:08

Yeah. Most of most of the clients that are coming to us right now are coming through word of mouth. You know, we do uh incredible work with our clients and they're willing to give us their quotes, they're willing to call people for us, they're willing to pick up the phone and say, you need this guy. So a lot of folks, uh, you know, your coaches that might be uh listening, if they do have a niche that they're playing around with, that that niche is highly likely to know others in that niche. Does that make sense? So for me, it's that founder that's stressed out or burned out or kind of at the at the end of their rope. They are probably in some circles with other founders that are stressed out at the end of their rope. They're in those network groups. So for me, that's like YPO. If you've ever heard of a young president's organization or EO, um, I do a lot of workshops for them. It's a target-rich environment, you know, second generation, third generation businesses, hired gun CEOs, founders, entrepreneurs in that room. So when I get in a room like that and I provide value for the whole room, at least two or three people are raising their hands saying, Hey, how can you help me here? Like I need some help. If they if they're the target market in the room, it's huge. I also do some speaking. I wrote a book called Scale Passion. I talk a lot about how to keep purpose and energy in your business. So speaking, you know, I'll be honest, speaking is great. I love it. I get a lot of energy from it. It doesn't produce a ton of leads unless I'm in the right room. If I'm in a room full of CEOs, it produces lots and lots of leads. So for me, knowing my niche, knowing my target client, knowing my ICP makes it very easy for me to find where they hang out. Uh, and so that's really the marketing from that standpoint. I don't cast a wide net yet. Uh, I do have aspirations to build my business. And right now our target is eight to thirty million dollar companies. Uh, long term, I'd like to add one to ten, you know, one to ten million dollar companies and do more one one to many type works, you know. And so that's second phase for me. Right now, it's really one to one. My team comes in and we really help a company in in in in a tight way. Uh, but I want to scale my business, and so you know that I have a vision around what scaling my business looks like and what that means to the world, and and so we're we're oriented around that as well.

Pedro Stein 14:13

It's interesting. You brought up something, right? You mentioned that the ICP or Avatar, they eventually know people who are sharing the same pain or sharing the same stuff because eventually they hang out, right? They have they they have a common interest. It's only fair that they eventually will hang out into the same spots. So that makes a lot of sense. I love that. Now let's me let me do the second exercise, which is I'm still your ICP, I'm still your avatar. Okay. Uh Rob, now let's pretend I'm being on boarded, right? Um, I eventually went through the sales process. Let's call it like that. I got to a word of mouth referral, whatever. Um you may have different offers. I understand that, right? But there's alignment. Let's say there's alignment and it's in the main offer. Okay. Um, now I'm being imported. So walk me through the process of working with your business and what are the potential outcomes I can expect out of it.

Rob Craven 15:10

Yeah, it's interesting. We're we're in the process of switching to a new approach, which I'm excited about, which is more of an application approach. So instead of, hey, buy what we're selling, it's apply to work with us. And we're excited about that because what we do is very specialized and we do it for a very specific type of entrepreneur who's in a very specific position. And so if an entrepreneur uh isn't a good match, there are other places we can point them to add value. But let's just say, like you said, they are a good match and they're coming on. So the first thing we do is a chem call, and then we do what's called a first step. And our first step is a paid engagement with a lot of diligence. And then I call it a dinner and a day. Uh, we do dinner to talk about vision and personal goals and aspirations, and then we do a day to talk about strategy. And the goal then is to provide value. We want to give them some value based on our model, uh, but also weigh out if this is a good, if this is a good connection point or not. Our um, our offering is not inexpensive. Uh, you know, at the lower, a lower end offering for us is $5,000 a month. Our typical offering is $30,000 to $40,000 a month. And so being able to connect in that way with the first step is a wonderful onboarding tool because it just makes sure that we're gonna, we're gonna work well together, it's a good fit, uh, it's kind of a marriage. Uh, and so we kind of see our offerings now as uh not, hey, here's what we've got, do you want to buy it? But you know, do you want to apply to work with us? We've got limited, uh, limited capacity. Uh, and so we want to make sure that we're we're doing the things that that structure this in the right way so that you feel comfortable with the value you're getting from us. Uh, does that answer the question you were going for?

Pedro Stein 16:49

Yes, it does. You know, and one thing that really caughts up my attention here is the in-person event, right? I feel, and I'm not sure you're right there with me, but I I feel like, and especially in this day and age with AI and all of that, sometimes I get a text or a message or an email, and I'm like, okay, is this a bot? You know, this is my first filter right now. So I'm feeling almost like the in-person events, and we have a retweet coming up for Purple Circle in about five days. The in-person events are are making their second turn, I would point like that. Do you feel like the same thing? 100%.

Rob Craven 17:23

And I'm I'm involved with some communities that are very exclusive and invite-only with CEOs, and and it's a wonderful place to learn first and foremost and make those connections and then to become known in a circle where people can mention your name and say, so I always ask my clients, and and I want us to be known as best in the world at something. So if for scale passion, it's about we want to be best in the world at facilitating a founder through this transition to something that scales their impact to you know 10x, 8x, 6x, you know, like big impact. And so we want to be best in the world at that. And so when someone mentions my name or somebody on my team's name or Scale Passion in particular, I want them to know what we're best in the world at. So being in those communities where that word can trickle, uh, especially if you're doing some work for somebody in that community and they're and they're you know blown away by the value. Now you're building more of uh an ethos, you know what I mean? You're building a soul to your company that's more than just the person. And the other thing, you know, I, you know, if you if we go deeper here, Pedro, like I'm trying to build a movement. So, you know, we call it capitalism 3.0. I write a lot about bringing you know the right brain back into business, emotion, purpose, impact. The left brain's pretty easy. We got that covered. Capitalism 2.0 is all about the left brain, you know, risk, making money, profit, which is all very important, but we've lost the right brain. And so I'm talking calling that capitalism 3.0. And so part of what we're trying to do as a company as well is build a movement, not just not just sell stuff. And so we get we get a lot of energy and excitement from trying to build that movement.

Pedro Stein 18:56

Okay. Now I want to shift gears here real quick, and I want to throw you a curveball. Okay. Here, here it comes. Because here's the thing, right? You were in the CEO uh chair for a while. You had this big, enormous machine in the back end running for you, multiple teams, you have marketing team, you have sales and all of that, right? And then you shifted to really, really shifted three years 3.5 years ago to coaching, and this is your own business, your own baby, right? And I do understand you have a team behind that helps you, but at the same time, very passion-driven. It's in the name, right? Scale passion. So, how do you think about managing your time and energy so the business doesn't start owning you, for example? Because in the coaching space, like we just established, very passion-driven. And then sometimes I see coaches out there, they're burning themselves out because they're it doesn't even look like work, you know. So, how do you set the boundaries?

Rob Craven 20:00

Great question. And I think this is one that not just coaches, but everyone could learn from. I'm a big believer in uh multiple sources of personal energy and being very conscious of your personal energy and where it comes from. Most people are not conscious of it, it's unconscious. Sometimes I have energy, sometimes I don't. Okay. Like, and so what we do first with the founders we work with, and what I do and what my team does is we call it a personal flight plan, but it's basically what are my sources of energy? And I would, I would submit, and this might sound woo-woo, but we've we've got a lot of proof behind it with hundreds of founders. I would submit that purpose is the deepest and and most powerful source of energy. If you can actually articulate why you exist, why you're on this planet, it's the deepest source of energy. Okay, sometimes that's easy for people, sometimes it takes some work. We've got workbooks around it, you know, all that. So uh, but if you can identify what that is, and and then another source of energy is how you spend your time. Like we do energy audits, like go back through your last two months of meetings. Where did your energy go up? Where did your energy go down? And what did you learn from that? Okay, so it's an energy audit. So purpose, energy audit, and then daily energy drivers. For me, a daily energy driver is working out, meditation. I want to date my wife a certain amount, you know, a month, you know, those kinds of things. So, where do I get energy personally daily? And so making the unconscious conscious and then orienting your life and your team to keep you as much in your energy as you possibly can. I happen to be at around 85, 90 percent in my energy, and I've hired people around me that do those things where my energy goes down, okay? Expenses, calendaring, email, uh, detail work, legal, blah, blah, blah. So I even if you're uh a solopreneur coach, you could pick up an EA now for a few hundred bucks a month that can probably take 30% of the things that bring your energy down off your plate. Do it, make the investment. When you're in your energy 50%, 60%, 70%, and you're you're focused on getting There, when you meet somebody that's in your your ideal client profile, your ICP, that energy shows up. You're not tired, you're not full. And so you pay for these things quickly. You pay for these outsource people very quickly. So make the investment in yourself if you're serious about it. If you're serious and you want to build something that's meaningful and you want to work with people that are meaningful and you want to do something meaningful, then make the investment, figure out how to do it. But do it thoughtfully, analyze and figure out where your energy comes from. Make it conscious and then make the investments to stay in your energy.

Pedro Stein 22:32

I really like that. It's like you're gonna show up a better version of yourself because your energy level is gonna be higher than instead of just thinking, oh, I need to invoice this guy, I need to, you know, uh do this X, Y, and Z admin task. So that makes sense.

Rob Craven 22:47

No, or push, or you know, you get a lot of founders or coaches that are pushing for their business. And so when you're pushing, things tend to push back. When you're in when you're in your energy, you're in flow, it flows. It's like you're just flowing and the and the and the the revenue comes. You're not trying to push for the revenue, you're not trying to push for that impact. And so I see a lot of founders who push hard. I see a lot of coaches who push hard, you know what I mean? And they make it bad that they don't have the gig. And so when it's bad, they get desperate. And have you ever wanted to buy from a desperate car salesman? No, you don't want to be around that energy, and so the energy management is huge versus pushing for something, would be you know what I would submit to your listeners.

Pedro Stein 23:27

And there's also that test, right? When you have a client that is you're looking at the calendar and you're like, oh my God, this guy again.

Rob Craven 23:35

You gotta fire that guy. You got to fire that that person. Like it's a great exercise, Pedro. Go through your clients and just do an up arrow or a down arrow. And and I'm not gonna allow you to do a if it's a question, it's a down arrow. Okay. Uh, and so if there's any, if it's not a we call it a whole body, yes, head, heart, gut. If it's not a whole body, I love working with this client, do the down arrow. And then, like a lot of books I've read have mentioned, uh, and you know, it's not my prescription, but I I ascribe to it, it's then fire those clients. Let them know it's not a good fit. Yeah, I could tell you some stories about that, but you know, uh, you can give me one top of the head. Well, I just a quick story about the red velvet rope. I was at a I was at a uh networking event several years ago with scale passion, you know, scale passion, and uh I said, you know, the guy said, uh, well, what do you do? And I and at the time I was using a line that was, I'm the guy changed the world founders call when they're ready to scale their impact. And he goes, Well, what's a change the world founder? And I go, Well, why'd you start your business? And he said, Well, I wanted a big house and a boat. I didn't want to have to worry about anything, I want to give generational wealth to my kids. And I said, Well, there's nothing wrong with that, but I don't work with founders like you. And he goes, he was shocked. And and I go, Yeah, I don't bring my energy to a founder that's motivated by those things. And he goes, Well, isn't that what we're supposed to be motivated by? And I go, no, I know lots of founders who are motivated to have real impact in the world. And I asked him, I said, if you were to use your business to drive real impact in the world, what would might that look like? And he went on a tangent of what he really loves in the world and how he gives his money to a nonprofit. And it just so happened that nonprofit connected to his business very beautifully. And I said, So if you want to hire somebody to help you bring that energy you have for that nonprofit into your business, that's doable. In fact, I think your business will grow faster and you'll be more fulfilled at work. And so by sticking to my niche, by sticking to the red velvet rope, by sticking to that, that and saying, I won't do business with you, I became infinitely more interesting to that person. You know what I mean? Uh, but it wasn't a it wasn't a trick. I'm being authentic, I'm being very authentic. It's not, you're not trying to trick anybody here. But when you stay in that energy and he asks, Well, what does that mean? Now you see my passion coming out, like, oh, this is what it means. I could give you lots of examples about that. You see what I mean? So it's that it's that connection to the energy that will help you drive your business. The goal isn't the revenue, the goal is to stay in the energy. If you're in that energy, the revenue will flow, it'll come.

Pedro Stein 26:04

You know, you remind me of a story. I I think it was Jay Leno, you know, he's a big fan, a big car fan, something like that. And his guy, yeah, and his guy, like he was telling this guy who was trying to buy a Ferrari, right? But he had to buy like 10 beat up Ferraris, not the model he wanted, you know. So he they kind of BSed him for a while. And then he had the MacLaren guys, the Mercedes and all of that, and it was like they're so much better. And the reason for it is like he was uh trying to buy it, right? And the the the salesperson asked him, Hey, are you going to ride this on the street or you're gonna race with it? And he's like, Yeah, just on the street. So hit the guy immediately tells him, So no, you don't need X, Y, and Z in this car. And that immediately builds trust, right? It's basically what you just told me. It's just like you give a step back. I'm I'm not needy, right? I don't need this, I do it for purpose. Does that make sense?

Rob Craven 26:58

Yeah. As soon as you get connected to the revenue or connected to the sale or personally invested in making that sale or or losing that sale, I would submit you're not connected to your purpose. You're not connected to your energy. In fact, money, you know, I used to have a very good dear friend and entrepreneur that I worked with on my second gig who used to say money has energy. It has energy. And so where you get that money and how you get that money brings energy. And so if you're getting it by scrapping and doing things you don't like to do, and it's not making you happy, then that money is bringing that kind of energy. If you're if you're getting money from clients who are are are connected to you and they're your ideal client profile, and it brings you energy and you are in your sweet spot, that money has energy. It's it's you know, but to me, money is the result. Money is the result, not the goal. Why am I doing this? If it's to make money, I would say you're missing it. Uh, because it's 18 million ways to make money. Uh, what I would say is is it's about fulfillment in some way. And fulfillment, doing good in the world is a wonderful way to to be fulfilled. Uh, and so yeah.

Pedro Stein 28:07

Yeah, that really that really hits home for me. Like the the time in my life I worried the most about money was when I made the less, you know. And the opposite is so true. Whenever I don't care about money and just I'm just purpose-driven doing something that I really feel like I'm challenged and I really feel like and can help people, that's when really money flows because you're not connected to the outcome, you know, you're just in the flow, you're just moving, and and and people can connect with that, they pick it up, right? It's like you don't care, you're just going in your own lane. Does that make sense? Yes, yes.

Rob Craven 28:40

And the visual I use all the time is that you put your two hands together fingertip to fingertip and push. And so when you're pushing for something, the natural tendency is your other hand to push back. Like anything you want to push for, it pushes back until you get your lessons, until you get your learning. So the first step is personal leadership. The first step is understanding where you get your energy and positioning yourself to do that. And so the founders I work with, for example, get totally burned out because they're trying to do the same thing they did to get the business to where it is, and they've got 40 or 50 people where it doesn't work anymore like it did with four or five people. And so they keep pushing for how they did it before. And so part of what we teach them is how to let go of that, how to find a new energy source, how to learn, how to get a growth mindset. Then we start working on the strategy of building your business. So we were talking to, if you were talking to me about how to build a coaching business, if you were a coach that I was mentoring right now just one-on-one, I'd say, Pedro, how are you doing? Like, what's got you upset? What's your purpose? Why are you doing this? Where do you get energy? Where is it up? Where is it down? I would start there, not with our approach to business flight planning. You know, what's the purpose of the business? Who's your ideal client profile? All those key questions. Okay, we use OKRs on the business side. I always start with the person, the person that does the personal work, then do the business scaling work. It's stage one, stage two, I call it, and stage three is radiate purpose. It's like now we're gonna do big things in the world.

Pedro Stein 30:05

That's awesome. You know, you're getting me to a rabbit hole here, right? So that's my fault, actually, not yours, but I'm thinking, right? I have two boys, two kids, and there's this thing that we want to keep it up, right? The justice. Oh, I want to treat them the same way. But in reality, just like comparing to the the founders you mentioned, they're trying to replicate something, but they're a different person right now, and the market changed, so it they cannot replicate the circumstances, they can try to adapt if of the kind of a same framework, but uh it's a different landscape right now. So that's what I'm thinking, right? Sometimes it's like between my two kids, I'm not the same dad I was three years ago. I'm a different guy now, so I cannot replicate for my three-year-old what my seven-year-old has been through. You know, it's a different situation. Does that make sense? 100%.

Rob Craven 30:57

We use a tool called Enneagram. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but all of our clients go through the profile, and it's a quick and dirty way for us to get to know our client in a deep way. It's it's very accurate in my experience, but also for the client to start the founder in particular to start to understand that they are not the same as the people around them. So we we tend to project on on our hopes, dreams, aspirations, who we are on other people. And so understanding that your two boys are two completely different souls, you know, ultimately they're gonna like I've got two daughters, and one's 21, one's almost 25. And they went in two completely different paths, right? Two completely different personalities. And so, as a founder, as a leader, as a dad, as an entrepreneur myself, how I show up has a lot to do with who's across the table from me. But I can't seek to understand who they are in a deep way and help manage and lead them until I understand who I am. What am I good at? Because the last thing I want to do is try to teach my kids gap accounting. I am not good at gap accounting. I am not a gap accounting guy, right? I'm good at passion, I'm good at vision, I'm good at discernment and galvanizing and all these other things. But if my daughters don't need me to teach them that, then how can I connect them with somebody who can teach them what they need to hear? Versus trying to be all things to all people, which is what a founder has to do at the beginning of a business. But as the business grows, you can start to specialize and bring the energy back and hire people around you that are good at those other things.

Pedro Stein 32:24

Right. You nailed it. Yeah, that you nailed it. Yeah, that's exactly it. Okay. Now, looking forward a bit, right? Let's talk about future a little bit. What's the direction you're aiming? You know, scale passion towards. Are you thinking more about growth, leverage, building a team, or refining what already works, you know, what feels most exciting right now?

Rob Craven 32:42

Right. Well, we we we we exist to try to support capitalism 3.0. And so the reason I started the company was to create as many converts in the movement of founders to this concept that you could do good with your business and scale it, like by X's, not by percentages. Uh, in fact, I think it's easier to scale when you connect in your purpose more fully and and commit to it and attract a tribe around you that wants to support that. So our vision is to do that with as many founders as we possibly can. And so we've got some phases around that in our vision. Phase one right now is just kind of nail our model and do it, do it in a way that um we can provide as much value as we can for 15 to 20 clients a year, which is what my small little SWAT team, you know, Navy SEAL team can do, uh, where we drop into a client. But along the way, we're building the SOPs, we're building the systems, we're you know, tapping into AI, we're using AI to kind of make it easier for us to do what we do. Uh and then phase two would be to start training training leaders. Most of the people on our team, the vast majority are ex-CEOs or ex COOs. Um, they've they're operators, they've been there and done that. Uh, so they've got the experience. So there are a lot of operators that cash out but don't want to retire. Uh, or you know, they're tired of running a business, they want to do something more fun. And so being able to attract those people would be phase two. How do we train you to come in and do this system and give them the tools that they need to scale up from there? Uh, the ultimate vision is to touch as many of those clients as possible. I happen to think founders are the best bet in this sweet spot where they usually get burned out. If we can help them build businesses that can touch more employees, can touch, you know, kind of touch communities in a deeper way. But smaller founders are next on the phase list. And then the third phase is really corporate. And the the pitch to corporate is how to act more like an entrepreneur while being fulfilled, bringing fulfillment into business and making sure you don't lose the next generation of employees because they hate working where you are. Uh, so that's way down uh the path. Uh and then for me personally, politics, you know, some way to get government involved in capitalism 3.0 uh is a part of my long-term vision, long, long-term. So that's kind of that's kind of where we're headed. And the challenge right now is how to get me out of the business. I mean, like all founders, you're in the business, and I teach founders how to get on the business. So I'm I'm working my own model right now. We're just a little early and I've got to be in it, you know.

Pedro Stein 35:04

Yeah, it it looks like a challenge because you have a lot of energy just by listening to you, right? And then there is someone who's like probably gonna listen to this podcast, and they're like, Hey, how can I I talk to Rob, right? So the handoff from Hob to team, Rob to team, it's always tricky from a founder point of view, right? So that challenge I I understand where you're coming from. Now, you've been around long enough to see trends come and go, right, Rob? So people give business advice nonstop, especially online. True. Now, what would you say is like something that you hear repeated a lot that you think people misunderstand or overvalue?

Rob Craven 35:46

It's so funny. We didn't have this conversation before, but I've got a substack. I'm not gonna I'll promote it if you want. Rob Craven Skill Passion Substack. But I just I'm I'm on myth number eight of ten business myths. Okay. So I've actually written eight of these business myths that people say that I don't agree with. Uh, you know, one is like culture takes care of itself, right? Like, you know, those those are, or another one that I just wrote about is, you know, just hire the best people and let them do what they do. You know, there's there's a lot of different myths. Uh, and so I hear a lot of them. I think the the one that comes to mind for me right now uh that I think is is worth mentioning if you want something done, you got to do it yourself. Now it's it's an interesting one for founders because founders have a tough time extending trust. Uh when you start a business, you tend to hire people around you that you already know and that you can trust and that buy into who you are. And so you trust them because you've known them for 20 years. It's my cousin, it's my wife, it's my, you know what I mean, it's my friend, and they just want to be part of it. And you can also tell them what to do easier. They're closer. As that starts to build, you have to hire people that are smarter than you if you want to do it right, like in marketing or in sales, they go deeper, not wider. And so, you know, that whole concept of doing it yourself is probably the hardest thing to learn as a founder is I don't have to do it myself. As I grow, I can build a team around me that can do it, do it for me. Benjamin Hardy uh wrote about, and it's not him, it's uh the 2x is greater than two, 10x is easier than 2x guy. I forget his name, it's come not coming to me right now. But he talks about who, not how, you know, kind of transitioning from the who to not how to do it, but who's gonna get to do it. Who am I gonna get to do it? It's a big transition for people. Uh so anyway, if you want to go deeper on my business myths, there's a whole slip stack on it.

Pedro Stein 37:31

Dan Sullivan, the who not Dan Sullivan, yes, yes.

Rob Craven 37:34

Thank you for that.

Pedro Stein 37:34

I'm the middle of that. I'm really super connector, but that one is the next on the list. Uh okay. I really like that. Yeah, great book, I think, but I'm gonna read it. Now, I really love one thing that you mentioned, right? Because when I see founders, and especially in the coaching space, right? But that's all over industries. It's like when they're thinking about delegating, they have this scarcity mindset that there's trouble there, right? They're gonna lose something, they're not connecting to an abundance mindset that this person eventually will bring up something new to the table. You know, that's a little bit of a shift considering the same situation. Like this is a new person, right? So is this a good or a bad thing? Do you see founders finding themselves in that same pickle? 100%.

Rob Craven 38:22

I mean, I I hear founders all the time say, Why can't they just get it? Why can't they just do it? Why I hear it all the time. Why, why do I have to step in? Why do I have to fix this? Why do why can't they just understand it and do it? And I'm like, have you taught them how to do it? Well, they should know. And I'm like, Well, how should they know? And so most founders are are there's another part of my book that I talk a lot about, which is pace. Founders tend to outpace the room. If you're they tend to be the smartest person in the room and they're outpacing the room, primarily because they know the strategy, it's their company. They can do whatever they want, they've got the strategy in their head, so they can go really, really fast. So part of the trick here is to slow down and teach, slow down, and and we use a lot of tools. We use a tool called a green sheet. We call it we got a blue sheet, a pink sheet, a green sheet. But the green sheet's all about delegation, and it's a one-page sheet that we teach the employee to use with the founder. So the employee pulls out a green sheet and starts asking questions. It's basically a form on that delegation. You're asking me to do this thing, and the founders need to slow down. It only takes five minutes or 10 minutes, it doesn't take a long time. But now, if if I'm asking somebody to do a PowerPoint for me and I'm the founder, well, how many slides? And is it going to be read or is it gonna be presented? If it's gonna be presented, I want less words, you know what I mean? Or I want more words if it's gonna be read. And so you get to ask the question so that now that person can deliver for you. You've actually taken the time to tell them what you want, which nine times out of ten, they're like, hey, Pedro, can you do this thing? Yes, I can. And then Pedro thinks it's due on Tuesday, I think it's due tomorrow. And we don't have a clear agreement and we're we're not really clear. And so now everybody's frustrated. And so slowing down to make clean agreements, to use these tools. Uh, our blue sheet is a proposal. Like if you want to make a proposal to the founder, if you want to make a proposal to the leadership team, you're a leader on the company, we teach you how to make a proposal, and then you come and make the proposal, you know. So a lot of it is pace, a lot of it gets back to pace where things are just happening too fast for a founder and people can't keep up. And so it creates a lot of frustration. And so that's slowing down is part of what we teach to people. Uh, and if you've got, you know, if you've got coaches on that are watching this that have got a team, even an external team, uh like an external set of you know, marketing firm, social media, you know, or whatever, even an external um CFO, like a fractional CFO or something like that, the same thing applies. Teaching them what your strategy is, teaching them what your business is, teaching them what your vision is, teaching them what's important to you, what are your core values? Like, you know, responsiveness is really important to us. So, as the leader in the business, it's your responsibility to do that, not their responsibility to read your mind.

Pedro Stein 40:58

Isn't it wild? Like if this keeps coming back to me, my kids, right? Because it's like the way we raise them sometimes. It's like I'm giving them answers, like to keep up the pace because I know the game plan, like you mentioned. I know we gotta leave in 15 minutes. I don't have like all the time in the world to explain it. But at the same time, I'm doing for them, but then I'm complaining, like the founder you mentioned. He creates he creates the perfect scenario for people to rely on them and complains about the fact that people rely on them.

Rob Craven 41:32

What I what I uh we also we we're uh many of us on my team are trained in a in a concept called conscious leadership. So there's a great book called The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership. It's a wonderful book, and I've been trained on it deeply. Um, and the first commitment of conscious leadership, and they're in order, one through 15, they're pretty much in order. But the first commitment is 100% responsibility. So it's it's what's my role in this? What's my responsibility in this? What did I do right or do wrong? Like that's the first question we ask. And a lot of times that gets back to um, am I being curious or am I being right? Like if you're being right, you're not gonna get very far. If you could be curious, that's different, right? So 100% responsibility is something that I try to teach the founders very quickly. Uh, they are a lot of times it's called below the line in conscious leadership, where they're they're feeling at the effect of. And so we describe that as to me. The world is happening to me. And so the key thing when the world is happening to you is that there are no solutions below the line. There are no solutions when it's coming to you. The second stage is above the line, which is by me. Like we go from to me to buy me. And so we teach people to take 100% responsibility for that employee who's not getting it, for the bad hire you made, for the, you know, whatever it might be, for the client who just left. How do I take responsibility for that? And how do I get curious about it versus being blaming and taking it to a whole nother level? But that's a whole different tangent uh in terms of bringing consciousness into work. It's kind of that right brain stuff I was talking about before.

Pedro Stein 43:04

Right. Okay. Now, before we close this out, some if someone resonated with what you shared and wants to follow your work, okay, where should they go? And we're gonna have all the links in the description, just the main thing they should go to.

Rob Craven 43:17

Sure. Uh scalepassion.com is easy. Uh scalepassion.com and also Rob Craven, ScalePassion at Substack. I do a lot of writing there. I've got a lot of content in another area. I'm trying to move over to Substack slowly, but those are the two links I would say. Uh I'm also active on LinkedIn, not as much on Instagram right now. Uh just but scalepassion.com can can kind of get you to those different areas.

Pedro Stein 43:39

Okay. You know, from this chat alone, I feel like the need to highlight certain parts of our conversation, right? Please that really stood out to me. I would say, well, through four words really they they really hide, they were highlight highlighted during this entire conversation. I would say purpose, I would say passion. And calling right. So those three first, I feel like that's very important, like uh fundamentally something that is key for you to move forward in your business. It sounds like I might be off, right? I really love the dinner in the day in person event, right? But there's the fourth word that shows up there that you mentioned, which is value, right? So you want to deliver value during that first up front. We want to deliver value to our clients. I really think uh that's very important in today's age, right? And the energy audit also really cool. You're looking at your calendar coaches out there, whoever's listening, it's like well that flag, right? So pay attention to it. Yep, really like that. And last but not least, the capitalism 3.0, right? To build a movement. I really like that. I like an ecosystem, a movement, a way of doing things that goes back to alignment and purpose to what you really, really want to achieve, you know. So, Rob, this is my long-winded way of saying that I appreciate you taking the time and being.

Rob Craven 45:10

Thank you, Pedro. Yeah. Great having you on, man. Appreciate the opportunity. Thanks so much.

Davis Nguyen 45:14

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community, and how we can help you grow your business, visit joinpurplecircle.com.