The Business of Building Leaders Without Burnout with Jen Ziegner

In this episode of Success Leaves Clues Podcast, our guest is Jen Ziegner, co-founder of Mountains and Marathons, who shares how a passion for leadership, adventure, and human transformation evolved into a global coaching business. Jen reveals why so many successful executives, entrepreneurs, and impact-driven leaders experience burnout despite achieving everything they once wanted, and how true leadership begins with aligning who you are before focusing on what you accomplish. She discusses the creation of the six-month Aligned Leadership Program, combining deep coaching with life-changing expeditions to destinations like Patagonia, Machu Picchu, Kilimanjaro, and Bhutan. Jen also shares valuable lessons about building a premium coaching business, trusting your own path instead of following industry formulas, using retreats to create lasting transformation, refining programs through client feedback, scaling with intention, and creating a community that extends far beyond coaching. Whether you're a coach, entrepreneur, executive, or someone seeking greater purpose, resilience, and authentic leadership, this episode is filled with practical business insights and inspiring life lessons.

You can find her on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferziegner/
https://mountainsandmarathons.world/
https://www.instagram.com/jen.ziegner/
https://linktr.ee/jenziegner

Transcript

Jen Ziegner 0:00

So we knew that we wanted to create this like six month journey. And so we started, you know, our first offering ever, our entry point into what we were doing and into the world of mountains and marathons was this six-month journey that then culminated with a retreat in in Patagonia in Chile. So we were basically running a marathon in a place that we had never been to, and that was the first thing we we ever did. So we, you know, by by luck, faith, call it whatever, we had three members in that first program. Two of them were people that we knew from other places in our lives. One of them came through a Facebook ad. We didn't even know what we were doing, what we were talking about. He said, Well, I've been wanting to go back to Patagonia. And we said, Well, and there's a six-month leadership thing with it, which we didn't know what we were even going to do with them. And he said, Yeah, that sounds good.

Davis Nguyen 0:46

Welcome to Success Leaves Clues, the podcast where we interview business owners on how they built their businesses and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is David Swain, and I'm a business coach and a founder of Purple Circle, where we help business owners achieve their first six-figure, seven-figure, and eight-figure year, all without sacrificing their quality of life. Before becoming a business coach and before founding Purple Circle, I started to scale several seven and eight-figure coaching businesses and have been a consultant at several businesses doing over $100 million each, including some that are publicly listed and doing over a billion dollars each. In every episode of the podcast, you're gonna learn lessons that took RS years to learn, and you'll be able to learn that in minutes. No matter if you're a new business owner or an established business owner, every episode is gonna give you the clues in order to elevate your business.

Pedro Stein 1:30

Welcome to Success Leaves Clues Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today I'm joined by Jen Zigner, co-founder and leadership coach of Mountains and Marathons and the Align Leadership Program, whose eight years working with leaders for from Fortune 500 companies to national nonprofits across the US, Europe, Australia, and the Middle East has shaped a uniquely embodied approach to leadership development. Jen's rare combination of certifications, spending, strategic intervention coaching, integrative, somatic trauma therapy, somat IQ, breath work, and pleasure coaching through Regina Thompshauser's School of Womanly Arts reflects her deep conviction that lasting leadership transformation lives in the body, not just the mind. Her background in intercultural studies and international business, combined with years working with impact-driven businesses and social enterprises across two continent two continents, gives Jen a global perspective on what it truly means to lead from a place of alignment. Welcome to the show, Jen.

Jen Ziegner 2:48

Thank you for having me. It's good to be here.

Pedro Stein 2:51

Great to have you, you know, and uh Jen, sorry, but I'm kind of a comic book nerd myself, right? I love the first editions, you know, uh the origin story. Let's put it simple like that. So let's rewind a bit, backtrack a little, you know, because every coach has that moment where they look at their life and say, Yeah, I guess this is what I'm doing now, right? So when was that for you, Jen?

Jen Ziegner 3:14

Yeah, so that was about uh eight years ago now. I was living in Australia. So before starting Mountains and Marathons, I was working in the impact investing and social enterprise space. So I had several roles across that space, mainly working with impact-driven businesses, which means businesses that don't only exist to make money, but also to create measurable societal or environmental outcomes. And it was mainly working with them on their investment readiness. So how could they scale their impact? I could scale their operations in a way that is sustainable through investment. And so I spent a lot of time working with these people on their business models and looking at that together. And at some point I got really curious. I'm like, but how are you doing? We've talked about your business, we've talked about the model and the scale and everything and the investment readiness, but how are you doing as a person? And what I saw was that I was working with some of the foremost like change, social change leaders in the country in Australia back then. And when I actually asked them, they were like pretty not well. They were burnt out, they were missing the kids' soccer game, they were, you know, neglecting their health, all while putting all their blood, sweat, and tears into creating the outcomes in housing or food security or education or whatever it was that the field they were working in. And so I thought, well, if we keep doing this, like if the people that are actually committed to really creating societal change in this country aren't actually well, it's not going to be sustainable. And we need to talk about like the human sustainability of it as well. But at the same time, uh met Jamin, who was first my romantic partner and is now still my co-founder. And he was basically one of them. He had started like three different nonprofit organizations, all supporting mainly um youth leadership development and you know, supporting boys to develop health, healthy masculinity, start a non-profit that went on to become the largest scaling nonprofit in art of Australia. And he got all the external recognition and the awards and the accolades. And when I met him, he was so miserable and so burned out that he literally couldn't get out of bed and even like plan his day in the morning. And so I helped Jamin get out of burnout. And then a couple months into us dating, he said, Um, you know, what I really want to go is run marathons and climate hands all over the world. And I was on my way to a permanent residency in Australia. I was like, that sounds that doesn't sound like a great idea. And um, I was in a in my own leadership program at that time, and I started like over the next couple of days looking at the stories that had me think that I could never be the kind of person that runs marathons or climbs or climbs mountains. And I got really curious about who I would need to become. So one night I came home and I said to Jamie, Jamie, we're gonna be doing this together. But if we're gonna do it and we travel the world and we have these extraordinary adventures, we're not gonna just do it by ourselves and for ourselves. But what if we were to create that kind of transformation for other people and invite them into it? And what would it look like to actually create the most holistic leadership program where we're not just people, you know, looking at people at production machines and like how you can lead other people better, you know, and create better business outcomes, but actually create the most holistic leadership program that looks at people as a whole and where we consider how we're leading ourselves first across our life areas and then we're gonna invite you into this extraordinary uh expedition or adventure somewhere in a beautiful place in the world. So that is kind of what became the origin of Mountains and Marathons, you know, this like six-month airline leadership program, this like six-month like deep inner work journey that then culminates with these days mainly, you know, major tracks around the world. So we really took our background in in leadership and coaching and development. I was already a certified strategic intervention coach at that moment. I did that training without ever planning to become a coach, but it all kind of like all came together in the end for us in Mountains and Marathons.

Pedro Stein 7:03

So interesting. It's organic at the same time, right? I'm thinking about the entire journey. Huh. You're almost like weaponizing his idea. Like, hey, how do we impact even more people that are, you know, want to do stuff like this, the mountains and the marathon. So interesting. Okay. Now I want to backtrack a little because you were in uh in a different like it's coaching adjacent what you were doing. I would call it like that. You're impacting people, you're helping people, you're coming from that place already, right? But then you made the jump that you did eight years ago for your own business, like you co-founded with your uh with your co-founder, your also partner. And my question to you is because in the early days, right, of coaching, sometimes we're still testing waters. Uh, you're like, I'm helping people, like you're weaponizing this stuff, you're getting a gist, the feeling of it to really understand. Okay, I think this is a real thing. This is a real business we're building, you know, and uh sometimes there is an aha moment, sometimes it's like more natural, more organic. But how did that look like for you? You know, that you felt like, okay, this is really a coaching business. Was it the first paying client? Was it, you know, the first cohort or even the first invoice, you know, that you realize, okay, this is something that can really we can really make it.

Jen Ziegner 8:30

Yeah, I mean, uh, I'll be honest, like the moment of, oh, we can really make it came and went many times over the first years. So um you know, we kind of decided to go all in, which is our style. Like we were building a new romantic relationship. We were leaving Australia to travel the world for at least 18 months and building the business all at the same time. So we knew that we wanted to create this like six-month journey, and so we started, you know, our first offering ever, our entry point into what we were doing and into the world of mountains and marathons was this six-month journey that then culminated with a retreat in in Patagonia in Chile. So we were basically running a marathon in a place that we had never been to, and that was the first thing we we ever did. So we uh, you know, by by luck, faith, call it whatever, we had three members in that first program. Two of them were people that we knew from other places in our lives. One of them came through a Facebook ad. We didn't even know what we were doing, what we were talking about. He said, Well, I've been wanting to go back to Patagonia, and we said, Well, and there's a six-month leadership thing with it, which we didn't know what we were even gonna do with them. And he said, Yeah, that sounds good. I'm in. And so, you know, we had like three people for that very first cohort in 2018. And uh, you know, that's really that's really how we started. So we went, we we left Australia, we started traveling the world, we were leading that program, and then had our first graduation six months later. So we kind of decided, you know, to not really like test the waters, but just like jump all in and be like, does is this model gonna work or not? And let's let's find out.

Pedro Stein 10:09

Oh, interesting. It's an all-in um kind of thing. I love that. Okay, now let's expand on one thing. Because after you got rolling, right, you got your first cohort, three people showed up in Patagonia, Terra del Fuego, right? Um, there is almost like an evolution to it from eight years ago, and who do you serve now sometimes, right? Uh you're you're sharpening the blade, you're testing, you're like, okay, and and to a certain point you you start attracting a certain type of people, right? So how can can you walk us through the evolution of the first people who joined and who you serve now, or even if they're the same people, right? You you never know. But I I would love to to know more about that.

Jen Ziegner 10:55

Yeah, I mean for the most part, like the essence of it has remained the same. You know, as I just said, the the first couple people that we enrolled um were friends, were people that we already knew these days, you know, where where most of our people find us is on social media, through ads, etc. But the the people we serve generally are high-level leaders, executives, entrepreneurs that are in a place where they have done all the things that society suggests you should do to be happy, and they have created a really beautiful life on paper, and are also wondering, you know, what what else in terms of a lifeness, in terms of purpose, in terms of ease that we get to create with is out there. So those are the kinds of people that we're generally calling in that know they have an adventurous spirit, but nobody in their lives to play it out with often. And so, you know, not too much of that has changed in its essence, and at the same time, you know, just like the the level, the caliber of people, like where they're at in their professional journey and what they're looking for, you know, that has changed over time. Like I would say bit by bit. With that also comes that our first program that we put out there, I mean, where we're just hitting maybe break-even, you know, maybe covering our cost. I think we're selling the program for about like four or five thousand dollars USD back then, so six-month journey plus all-inclusive retreat. I mean, you know, that just covered it. And these days, you know, the investment is between 17 and 24,000. So it's a it's a different kind of, you know, it's still like a similar journey, but it has completely transformed over the last 22 editions in terms of the value that we deliver and with it also the caliber of people and you know who are really attracting into it.

Pedro Stein 12:36

Okay, interesting. Now let's pretend a little bit of game of pretend here. Let's pretend I am your ideal client profile, right? Which, if I got it right, it's social change leaders. It's just not about revenue, but I'm I'm missing something, right? There is something that it's missing inside. Um, first of all, how would I be able to find you guys? And you know, marketing-wise.

Jen Ziegner 13:02

Marketing-wise, most of our people still come from like ads, so Facebook ads, Instagram ads. That's that's where you're likely gonna find out about us, or through a friend or a colleague that has been on the journey with us and says, Hey, you should look into this.

Pedro Stein 13:18

Okay, so uh I was browsing the internet, I I I I you know found one of your ads, Facebook, whatever, or even I was referred to, you know, work with you guys, then I reached out, right? I'm like, hey, this sounds cool, this resonated with me. Um, we can speed up the sales process a little a little bit. I'm not sure how that's that that looked like. You can even talk a little bit about that. But my my intention here is really to understand what happens, you know, behind the curtain a little bit, uh to how that journey looks like and uh the outcomes I can expect, you know.

Jen Ziegner 13:54

Yeah. So when you're saying behind the curtain, more on the business side or more on the experience side of the participant?

Pedro Stein 14:00

Both. You we could you can give me a rundown a little bit on both. Because I I think the thing with coach, and I'm a coach too, is that the thing I get the most is like people are trying to understand what's gonna what's about to happen, but they're not experiencing it. And so I I want to expose them a little bit in your own words, if that makes any sense.

Jen Ziegner 14:18

Awesome, perfect. Yeah, so I'm gonna speak for a moment into the uh the enrollment cycle for a bit because from my understanding, a lot of people listening to this are coaches, and there's a lot of things that I believe we do differently and have always been stubbornly doing differently than a lot of what might be recommended generally. So if you find us and you find our website, you know, you inquire with us, you fill out a short inquiry form, and then you book a call with us, which is an exploration call, and then there may be another call, and you either join or you don't, and uh, you know, or we then keep building the relationship. But what I'm what I mean by that is you know it is often communicated in the coaching world that you need to have, you know, you need to sell something for seven dollars and then forty-seven dollars and then nine hundred and ninety-seven dollars or whatever it is, right? And you build people up before you actually enroll them into something high-ticket. And we have always quite stubbornly insisted that the entry point into our world is the aligned leadership program. So we're literally going from you know, ad inquiry into a conversation about a plus or minus $20,000 program. And maybe something else would have worked even better, but it's worked for us. And, you know, we're slowly adding other layers in there. But I'm saying this because I believe that we really need to find our own paths in the office that we're creating and in the way that we want to usher people and connect with people and you know what like each coach feels like truly actually speaks to them instead of doing these strategies that people recommend, you know, goodwilling, and um it's not all for everybody. And so we've always kind of insisted on that journey, just like finding people, they inquire, we get on a call, we connect, we see if it's a good fit, and if it's a good fit, you know, you join the thing. So that is kind of a little bit more on the background of you know how we how we enroll people and how they find their way into the aligned leadership program. And then once we're once we're actually in there, like the six-month journey in itself is a highly, highly like refined curriculum with like weekly videos that we have created, you know, and been refining over the again, we're currently in edition number 22 of the Aligned Leadership Program. And so there's like weekly videos, weekly group sessions. So the group calls are really like the backbone of the program where the entire cohort of up to 15 people comes together and we're really going deep into the content, you know, coaching, breakouts, all of those things. But then there's an option for having one-on-one calls with us as well to take that journey deeper. And the through the six months, we go through a process that we call clarity clearing creation. Like that is kind of you know the methodology, our own process for living in deeper alignment that we have distilled through working with dozens and dozens of people over the last years. And then the graduation is with these days, you know, the track where that is too much of Pichu Patagonia summit in Kilimanjaro, and then there is an intentional integration afterwards and a welcome into our graduate community, which is really for me the most beautiful thing that we've created in our business.

Pedro Stein 17:19

Okay. So I'm curious about like the the traveling part, right? Um, how many days does that take? I'm I'm I'm just trying to a bit a bit on the detailed level there.

Jen Ziegner 17:30

Yeah, absolutely. So um the shortest retreat is like seven days in Patagonia, and the longest is ten days in Kilimanjaro, so somewhere between the seven and ten days, which depends on the length of the actual trek.

Pedro Stein 17:42

Hmm, interesting. Okay. So one thing that I'm really curious about, and I would love to see your perspective, it's about your own demographic, right? It's social change leaders. And I'm not sure if I'm off here, and that's one of the reasons I want to ask. It's I see you mentioned they don't care about themselves so much. And to me, sometimes I talk with people in the space, it's like they're so passion-driven about their own stuff of helping like great mission-valued stuff, like, oh, I'm helping whatever, X, Y, and Z, that they forget to take care of themselves, right? Um, it seems like a pattern in the industry. Am I off here or not at all?

Jen Ziegner 18:27

I think that's pretty spot on, yeah.

Pedro Stein 18:31

Interesting. Okay. Now we're back to the game of pretend. I'm still your uh your ICP, I enrolled, right? Um, and I'm like, I'm kinda doing the stuff, but I'm not really kind of doing like I'm pretending to be in the coaching thing, right? I'm no showing some calls. Uh the group calls, even if it's one-on-one, let's picture this. I'm not, I'm I'm I'm bad Pedro here, right? Kind of a uh a rough client, but at the same time, I want you to answer me. How do you navigate that type of person that you need to, you know, keep nurturing, keep calling back? I'm not even sure she would do that, but I'm more like, yeah, I'm I'm just kind of I think I'm gonna go just take the trip, you know, but I'm not into that much of the the coaching part. I'm just pretending I am. How do you navigate that terrible, terrible Pedro?

Jen Ziegner 19:29

I love that you're like the way you're so like creating the place that some people come into the program from, less and less so, because you know, the the price point kind of prevents people that just want to go on a track to go and do this whole thing for six months, right? Because you can go and like track Machu Picchu a lot more affordably than this. And there is still people that say, you know, they come in and they're mainly drawn in by the destination and by the track, and then they're like, yeah, and I'll I'll see what the leadership thing is about. But I'm not saying that what you're describing in the first few weeks of the program doesn't happen at all anymore, and it is incredibly rare. And the reason for that is that by the time like we start with a launch weekend, and the launch weekend is like a Saturday and a Sunday where for four hours each day, we create a really, really strong context for what this is. So you know, we we we go like deep into connection, like where people like share, you know, not just like actually none of the accolades and the titles and all the things they might usually introduce themselves with in a new community, but we really go straight to the core of like, you know, who they are and what's going on. We create a really deep context for the program and the invitations that we're inviting them into. We speak really deeply through how we're doing things in a very pragmatic way throughout the program so that it has the highest levels of what we call workability, which is creating the best conditions for success for everybody. And then we do a whole briefing on the retreat. So that's kind of like the different things that we do in those eight hours together. And by the end of that, you know, what we consistently hear is that people go, Oh my god, like um I I now know why I'm like really here, and I I can't wait for this. And I'm you know, even so much happier than I was before that I said yes to this. And that like really strong context that we're creating over two days, which is something you know, we didn't have that at the beginning. We noticed over time, it's like, oh, there's actually something missing here. And then we implemented the launch weekend, and it made a tremendous difference in just the inness and the foundation that we're creating. So these days it rarely happens that someone is in the first weeks of the program and like not really showing up.

Pedro Stein 21:53

So it's almost like they self select themselves considering context, right? It's the pricing point. It's the whole uh onboarding in the first week. So I get that. Okay. Now I wanna I I have another question for you, right? Because I see a lot of group coach uh coaching coaches that do group coaching. Uh some of them do retreats, some of them do one-on-one, some are just digital, right? What is for you the importance of taking the retreat? You know, the graduation you meant. So what do you see as an impact comparing to some coaches that don't? And I I I'm not saying they they're wrong or whatever, it's just that I want to understand where do you see the value in it?

Jen Ziegner 22:45

Oh my gosh. It's yeah, it's so big. Um, yeah, for there's a few layers to it. So let me see if I can capture the different layers. The first thing is that as a business, you know, me as a as a person, but like we're really, really big stand for like actual human connection. No, so what we can do on Zoom and how we have been learning how to do the connection piece on Zoom really, really well is extraordinary. And there is just nothing that replaces human connection. And the the depth of connection people have with each other right away after a six-month journey where they've been seeing each other, you know, in like nearly like weekly group calls, like they just drop in like this. And it's something really special. And there are people that not only um they've been getting to know over the last six months, but they have gone through similar journeys and challenges because everybody through the program, you know, has their brings their own life to it, and so that varies person by person, the exact circumstance. The conversations we've had, the language that we've had, the practices people have gone through, the things they have confronted are kind of similar in a lot of ways. And with that, like the foundation of connection that is immediately there is for people often deeper than what they have with, you know, friends they've known for years and family they've known for decades, etc. And so like that kind of bond, like of actually physically coming together, is huge. Now then we're taking people into like multi-day tracks for a reason because it actually you know requires us to put into action so much of what we have learned, like emotional mastery, like really, you know, learning how what do I do, how do I show up when things get really challenging? You know, can I actually ask for support? Can I allow myself to be held? Can I say yes and can I say no in a way that is really in alignment, or am I doing it based on my old programming? You know, can I go slower than the rest of the group when I need to? Can I show up for other people in the way that I that is aligned with who I desire to be for others? So, you know, just being in nature and being like stripped bare of so many of the comforts that we usually have for like days on end when your legs are hurting and it's raining and it's cold and you're not sleeping well because you're sleeping in a tent, you know, and at the same time you're just enjoying some of the most beautiful and precious moments together out there with your people and have conversations, you know, that that that can only unfold in a context like on the track where you're just walking for hours next to and side by side each other, and other things and other layers come forth that just don't, and uh, you know, hour-long Zoom conversation. So many layers to that that are just so precious, you know, that we would uh I mean we always say, you know, I wouldn't want to run a business that is just online. I also wouldn't want to run a business that is only retreats where I'm constantly having to be on retreats. But for me, like this is this is a really, really you know, sweet, sweet spot.

Pedro Stein 25:41

Cool. Love that. Okay. Now I'm curious about one thing. Let's shift gears for a second here. Um, future, right? So, what do you see next for the business? Looking ahead, where do you see the business going? Are you thinking about scaling, hiring? Is there a next step you're excited about?

Jen Ziegner 25:58

You know, yeah, there's a couple. I mean, we're we're currently ish in a process of uh rebranding. So there is a new brand coming for Mountains and Marathons. We don't know what it is yet. So that is yet to be revealed, including for us. So, you know, but that is like an active creative process, so a reimagining of the branding um that is happening that has been has been there brewing for a while. Um kind of like, well, let's see when it reveals itself. So there will be a whole thing that comes that comes with that. And um that is number one. And I would say the the other major thing, because you just mentioned hiring is we're currently a team of we're a team of four. So it's Jamin and me as the founders. Then we have Jordan who is um has been with us for five years. She's actually a graduate of a line. Uh she graduated at Everest Base Camp 2019 and then became a team member with us in 21. So she is a full-time coach with us and you know, core part of the business. And then we have um a business assistant as well, like lead of member care that's taking care of all the things behind the scenes. So, with that, we're currently four people, three coaches, and you know, the the biggest capacity thing we're currently looking at is finding a fourth coach, which must be male coach, to balance things out. And we've been sitting with like that desire for a while, and someone has not yet come together. And so that if we could find that that person, like that would be uh that would be extraordinary, but it's been a bit of a journey.

Pedro Stein 27:30

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Um, and you know, whenever we're aiming towards the next chapter, you mention branding, you mention potentially hiring new code, it's all exciting, right? But there's always something where we're refining in the present, right? So what are you currently trying to improve or tighten up in your business right now?

Jen Ziegner 27:50

Yeah, I mean, the the program itself, the programs themselves are constantly refined. So we're currently in align edition number 22, and we've just re-recorded new videos and you know, change like just move things around. We have a very in-depth feedback process with each of our participants after every single program. And there's just always, you know, gold in there and how we can, even after all these editions, further improve the program. So that is always happening. And then we're also, I mean, we we have the align program, but then naturally, what has emerged over the years, which we didn't plan at the beginning, you know, I told you about the graduate community, but we also now have a level two program, which is called Masterpiece. So that is only for aligned graduates. We're running that right now. We're gonna graduate this one in Bhutan this year. Um, extraordinary program. So we're refining this right now because it's only the third edition that we're running that program. So the content of that is, you know, also constantly being up-leveled as we're up-leveling and as we can bring more to our people. Um, we're also having a graduate reunion every about 15 months where we're inviting people from all the different programs over the years to join us. So next one's in Morocco next year. So we've got like you know, 35 people or so joining us there. So I'm currently in the creative, like creative creation of that and what we like what that's gonna look like. So there's um there's a lot of other things that are constantly in the making and that are constantly being up-leveled and refined on the on the programming side. On the more business side, like behind the scenes side, we are currently revisiting our whole like sales and enrollment process. So that is something that my team member Jordan leads. And so she's currently looking into basically how we can make our enrollment process less draining because it works and it's uh draining the way that we're currently doing it. And so we're looking at ways that that can be more efficient to you know invite people into the program.

Pedro Stein 29:43

Interesting. Okay. Now let's pretend. You know, I love a game, I love to pretend I love sci-fi. Let's pretend yeah, that's kind of my thing. Let's pretend we have a time machine in front of us, okay? Jen, and um we're gonna have two stops. First one, when you started the business, right, with your partner, you can give yourself one piece of business advice you wish you knew back then, day one that you know now, right? What would that be?

Jen Ziegner 30:17

Do it your way. Yeah. There was, you know, we had some extraordinary mentors and coaches early on. I alluded to this earlier, with like strong opinions of how things should be done. And it took a while to find our inner alignment and compass in how to really calibrate to what is not just you know the seemingly best strategy, but actually feels true in how we desire to grow this business and lead this business and run this business. That would be the main thing that comes to me.

Pedro Stein 30:58

Yeah, that's very important. Okay. Second stop, you can go back in time in that those eight years, the time frame, and you can select a moment that looking back when you you had that epiphany, right? Of oh, this is why I'm doing this. You know, one of those key moments. Well, what moment would that be? Like it can I I understand it could be several, but it's usually the one at top of mind. That's just like boom.

Jen Ziegner 31:33

Yeah, when you said it, the moment that I was taken back to was our first graduate reunion in the Bahamas in 2022. So that was the first time that we played with bringing people from different cohorts, you know, across the years. Back then it was, you know, 18 to 21 together to connect with each other. And when that happened for the first time, there was this oh, this is not just about, you know, a six-month journey. And this is not just about the people you journey with during the six months. Like we're creating something much bigger here in terms of the community and in terms of belonging, what people get to be part of for years and years and years to come. And seeing the connections that they were making, like across programs and across timelines, and across you know, tracks they had done and marathons they had run with us. There was something I was like, oh, this is this is much bigger than what we even like set out to create or could have seen when we started all this.

Pedro Stein 32:38

Yeah, that's very powerful. You know, in the coaching space, I see a lot of coaches comparing one-on-ones to group coaching when for me, I think they're they're different, they're not even comparable. And seeing sometimes I've seen like I participated on masterminds and I even facilitated some seeing the dynamics in a group coaching setting, it's like so cool to watch, right? It's just like people visiting each other, it's like you create your own piece of your universe that you you it's so different from the one-on-ones. I understand you cannot get so deep sometimes, and the one-on-one is more intimate, people don't hold back, they can tell you what they feel and all that. But eventually, if you got into the right context, it like yours, like it's a deep dive in a group setting, it it can you know overcome that type of obstacle. But uh, what I'm trying to say is like the possibilities of group setting, and if you feel like any coach out there is like holding back, do you feel like they should give it a shot? Just trying to see your point of view on that.

Jen Ziegner 33:46

Well, I believe that if you feel called to create anything, go and give it a shot.

Pedro Stein 33:52

You don't even need me, that's what Jen is saying.

Jen Ziegner 33:56

Whatever it may be, you know. I mean, I know people hold back from all kinds of things from all kinds of reasons, but you know, when it comes to business creation, I mean like we get to we get to create what we really want to be creating. Like this is the coolest thing in the world. Like we're creating businesses because we like we truly get to make the difference we want to make and we get to do it the way that we most desire to, you know. Back to my point before, I'm like, if you like how would you love for it to actually look and feel like? And for me, anywhere like along the way where it's not that, like, go ahead and adjust real quick, you know, because don't remember that you're the creator of this thing and you get to make it in whatever way it is. I think we also might all have experienced moments in creating businesses, we've been in this for a few years, where you get to the point of, oh damn, you know, I created this. That wasn't the intention. I'm back in a you know, similar place as I was in corporate or something, or whatever the whatever the version is. So, you know, like that being yes, like the the bigger context. And then I mean, I I absolutely love and adore group um settings and what they can provide, you know, as you just shared, the way that they open up connection and in depth and all that. And we had people, you know, we sometimes have people that we're talking to in our exploration calls, and they're like, I really want to do this, but I'm really not a group person. You know, it's really not my thing, and I'm just not that kind of person. And I tell you what, like consistently after the six months, they're the people that most rave about how extraordinary it was. Because often what happens is that they're people that just don't have much practice in like really opening up and vulnerability, you know, and so they're intimidated by it and they're a bit afraid of what that's gonna look like, you know, being in a Zoom room with strangers talking about your life. Fair enough. And um, if you can then hold that for them in a way that, you know, creates that space to open, allows them to go deeper and deeper, those tend to be the people that most benefit from it and then become the biggest fans, you know. Plus, I mean, there is something in in in group coaching that it requires of us as spaceholders and facilitators and coaches that I believe you know is incredibly valuable to grow into that is different from a one-on-one space. And you know, if that's again, you know, who do we get to become in the process? That's also something, a really valuable layer of it.

Pedro Stein 36:16

I love that. You know, uh the people that need the most are the one that's gonna be transformed the most to something like that, right? Yeah. Okay. Now, if someone listening wants to connect with your following work gen, where can people find you and connect with you? And by the way, we're gonna have all the links here in the description, but the best way for people to reach out.

Jen Ziegner 36:39

Easiest is really Instagram at mountains and marathons or at gend.signor, my name, just like here. That is the most straightforward. And then we have a website, mountainsandmarathons.world, but pretty easy finding us.

Pedro Stein 36:54

Okay. You know, I feel like the urge to highlight some of some parts of the conversation today. So allow me to do so. I would say, first of all, the origin story, like everything is so organic with you, it's so wild, right? It's almost like you're you've been taken into places, of course, there is intention, but at the same time, it's like it's not like you wake up a day and I'm gonna be this. It's like you're being pulled into something that actually makes sense, although it from the uh an outsider perspective. Some people might think that's chaotic, but at the same time, if you know who you are, which you do, it's aligned, right? I'm not sure if that makes sense, but that's one thing that really caught my attention. Um also the all-in, right? Oh, we're we're gonna do this, right? It's like 18 months, like at the origin, like, yeah, we're just gonna rock and roll, man. I mean, that is so cool because I feel like in coaching, sometimes we ask a lot. Like we're we're we're throwing hard questions, we're asking for from our coaches, and I'm a coach too, right? So we're asking hard questions. It's only fair. We're vulnerable too. We we we we've been in that same spot. We we questioned ourselves. Um, and you made a bat, right? And the bat is in yourself at the end of the day. It's not just a product, a service, it's believing in what you do, believing the transformation. So, yeah, pretty cool to watch that. Uh, then again, moving to the retreats, right? This is such an important thing. That's one of the reasons I asked, right? I feel like uh door knocking is gonna get it, second return. And the reason I feel like it is because we're lacking human connection, and especially with AI, you know, everyone is like it's follow-up RAI. Uh there's and the first thing I think whenever someone texts me right now is like, is it a bot? Right? Am I is this a real person? And so this filter of having a real human being in front of you sometimes generating uh a moment of validation that back in the day we didn't, but right now with AI and all that, we're like, oh, okay, you're real. Yeah, I would love to have a conversation. But if someone reaches out to me on attacks or whatever, I'm like, oh, okay, a robot, right? You know what I mean? So I think that is so important to have those retreats. So there's that too. And last but not least, I feel like this is such a great and powerful reminder, which is the the team member that graduated with you guys and became uh a member, right? Like she was a client and then became a team member. And a lot of people out there are thinking, like, how do I scale a coaching business and all that? So look inside, right? Look at past clients because they've been there, done that, they went through the entire process. The onboarding is gonna be so freaking easy, right? They get it. So, dude, it's just like have a certain type of open-mindedness to the thing. And hey, maybe this past client could be an in uh uh could be a part-time coach, you know, start from there because that's you're gonna be usually your best bet. And uh, well, this is just my long-winded way of saying you you know this, it's almost like a tad talk to and I appre because I appreciate what you do, you know, and I appreciate you being here and sharing so openly today, Jen. It was great having you on.

Jen Ziegner 40:36

Thank you so much. Such a joy talking to you.

Davis Nguyen 40:39

That's it for this episode. This episode, as well as this podcast, was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help business owners elevate their business to six, seven, and eight figure years, all without burning out. If you're looking to grow your business as well as get the time freedom that you are looking for, visit us at join purplecircle.com and see what we can do to help you and your business.