Always Outrageous with Dr. Gyl
Welcome to Always Outrageous with Dr. Gyl, where Dr. Gyl, a successful audiologist-turned-entrepreneur, shares her journey of building a thriving healthcare business from the ground up. From earning $5 an hour to navigating the challenges of securing loans, managing finances, and growing a practice, Dr. Gyl offers valuable insights for healthcare professionals and small business owners looking to make their mark.
In each episode, Dr. Gyl provides real-world advice on overcoming obstacles, making data-driven decisions, and running a business with family. Packed with actionable tips and motivational stories, Always Outrageous with Dr. Gyl is your go-to resource for turning professional expertise into entrepreneurial success. Ready to take your practice to the next level? Tune in and get inspired!
Always Outrageous with Dr. Gyl
Soundproof Booth Secrets from an "Always Outrageous" Audiologist
From cold calls on a kitchen floor to building a "destination business" in healthcare, my entrepreneurial journey reveals what it really takes to thrive as a business owner in the hearing healthcare industry.
When I borrowed $15,000 to start an industrial hearing testing business, I had no idea the obstacles I'd face—or overcome. Banks that wouldn't lend to "just an audiologist," ENT partnerships that went sour when I started making "too much money for a woman," and the devastating 2008 financial crisis that nearly destroyed everything I'd built. Each challenge taught me invaluable lessons about perseverance and smart business management.
My husband David and I worked side-by-side for 36 years, navigating the delicate balance of marriage and business partnership. The secret? Clear roles (someone has to drive the business), communication, and a healthy sense of humor—including those "soundproof booth" lunch breaks we still laugh about today! Working together transformed our lives, enabling travel opportunities and a comfortable retirement lifestyle most healthcare professionals only dream about.
The most powerful lesson from my journey might surprise you: "If you don't own the business, it's not yours." I learned this the hard way after building successful practices within other systems before finally establishing my own. When I finally had complete control, my practice flourished, attracting clients from 60 miles away—something almost unheard of in healthcare.
Whether you're a healthcare provider considering entrepreneurship or already running your own practice, my story offers practical wisdom about financial management ("you can't have more month than money"), strategic partnerships, and building a business that serves your life goals rather than consuming them. Want to build a thriving practice while maintaining work-life balance? It's possible—I'm living proof.
Hello everyone. Dr Jill here Coming to you with my always outrageous podcast. I tend to be a little outrageous, so what I'm going to do in this podcast is share with you ideas to improve your life personally and professionally, and ways to grow a business. My favorite subject is taking a business from fine to fabulous, and that doesn't take a lot, it's just simple things. So follow me and follow my podcast Always Outrageous.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So today I want to tell you a little bit about myself and about starting the business many years ago. Many years ago, but we won't go into that. So in the beginning I am from a small town in Michigan and there were no jobs for audiologists and I needed to work because I had debt from college and I had to get certified with ASHA. That's back when we had to have our C's. So I was working in the hearing impaired program, about 15 hours a week, earning $5 an hour, because that's all they could afford to pay me and getting my C's. And then I started with an industrial testing business. At the time OSHA had just promulgated their law that said anyone exposed to a time weighted eight hour average of 85 decibels or above had to have their hearing tested once a year. So I went to the bank and said I need to borrow. Are you ready? A whopping $15,000. Now I was young and I didn't know a lot and I didn't know anything about business, to be the truth, and so I didn't write a business plan or anything and they said no way, we're not giving you $15,000. They thought I was nuts. But because we were buying a home, my husband and I, and because my husband had worked at the bank, they gave him $15,000. You want to know the real justice in that? 10 years later, as the business had grown and I was going to expand, I went to the bank to borrow money and they would only give the money to me because I was the president and not my husband. So that was justice.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So I started with this industrial testing business and I got a big box on wheels, kind of like an office, and then I got a microprocessor audiometer that tested automatically, and I got a sound level meter so I could do sound level studies, and I got an otoscope. So I needed customers so I could pay that $15,000 back. I think it was a whopping $600 and some dollars a month. And then I needed some money to pay myself. So I got directories of all the industries that I knew had levels above 85 decibels and I just started cold calling places that were within an hour, hour and a half of where I lived.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So at that time the phone was tethered to the wall. There were no such things as cell phones. Bag phones hadn't even been invented yet If you know what those are if you're young you probably don't but so I would sit on the floor in my kitchen and I would just start cold calling and I wouldn't let myself get up until I'd made 50 phone calls a day. So I did that three days a week while I worked in the Hearing Impaired Center, two days a week, and sometimes I got a lot of appointments. Sometimes I got none, but I knew what I had to do and I knew there was no failing, because failing wasn't an option for me. I didn't have a fallback. I didn't have money to back me up. I had to make that money every month to make my payment, and my first job was a whopping $210. At that time I was only getting like $7 per person, and so then the business started to grow, word of mouth started to grow.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:I went back into that facility. It was a facility that made frozen pizzas, and so they had some equipment that was noisy and they wanted me to do a sound level survey. So I'd never done one before, but I knew how to do it because of the class I had taken in school. So I go, I'm all dressed up right, I'm in a white pants and this black and white jacket and a black tank and black and white open-toed heels, looking hot. Well, when I was done, the gentleman who was safety director, whom I knew, said you know, jill, I know you're a smart lady, I respect what you know, but you can't go into a plant wearing open-toed heels. You got to have closed-toed shoes on. I was so embarrassed, I was mortified, and so you learn some lessons along the way. I also learned, you know, that backing up that big box on wheels that was connected to a truck In the beginning I did that on my own ran into just a couple little things, nothing big, and I learned that the guys were happy to help a 25-year-old female back up a trailer, and so I started letting them do it, because sometimes it was in a really tight spot.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:People laughed at me, but the business grew. I remember calling a company that was called Bendix. They made breaks and I knew they had like 800 employees and they were close to home and I called this guy and called and called. I bet it took me. Excuse me, I bet it took me three years to get that job and when I finally got it it was big. Of course, you know you had to work all three shifts, so I might work till three, four in the morning and then have to be back by seven. But you did what you had to do. By that time I had hired a couple of employees to help me because the testing was a lot to do and then I had to generate the reports by hand. But in all cases it went well, it grew, and when I got this big job they had coverage for hearing aids. So I'm like, oh my God, this was, like you know, it was really a good thing when I got that job.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So I was working in an ENT clinic by this time and my husband had quit his job in a plastics company. He was running the industrial division and I was working one day a week for the ENTs at this big multi-specialty clinic. So when I got this job and knew I'd be doing more hearing aids. And, by the way, when I first started doing hearing aids I as an audiologist could not sell hearing aids. I had to get them from somebody else and just made a small profit on the fitting fees. But because the state said audiologists couldn't sell hearing aids and so as soon as the state came out and said we will grandfather in audiologists so they don't have to serve that first three years to become a hearing instrument specialist, and I was one of the first that went to take the test so that I myself could dispense hearing aids. That made a big difference. But anyway, I was working in the multi-specialty clinic with a couple ENTs. I never worked for them, I was a contractor.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:After three years, when the hearing aid business started to really grow, I went to the ENTs and said you're foolish. We need a full clinic here with real ear equipment and a bigger sound booth and this is what it's going to cost. I'll go in on it with you. We'll just split right down the middle. We'll do 50% from diagnostics that goes to me, 50% stays with you and 50% of the hearing aids minus the cost of goods, and we'll split it 50-50. So the ENTs were happy with that and it was doing really well and I worked hard to build that business. Oh, I worked so hard to build that business and it grew Well.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:After a few years of doing that, the director of the multi-specialty clinic asked me to go to lunch with him. So I did, and by that time I was close to 30 and we had cocktails at lunch, can you imagine. And I had to go back to work. But that was, you know, the director of the clinic. That was kind of common back then, that's when martini lunches were popular in industries. So he said you know, you're doing a really good job and we're so happy with your work and patients love you. Blah, blah, blah, he tells me, but you make too much money for a woman that's just an audiologist. So we want you to become an employee.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:But the caveat there was employees couldn't own a business too, which makes that crazy. I guess that was probably because of the physician, so they couldn't do something on the side. And so I said I'm not coming to work for less than what I'm making now. I built this business. But the fact is and this is a tip to remember if you don't own the business, it's not your business and they can do whatever they want. I've talked to many people who have worked for ENTs along the way and I was just a contractor and then, when things started to go really well, either the ENTs don't want to sell it anymore to the audiologist or the hearing healthcare professional because it's doing so well, they want to keep it and they want to make the money off of it. So if you don't own the business, it is not yours. Remember that.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So I left, I left, I left and one of the ENTs was leaving because his wife had had cancer and one of the doctors had misdiagnosed her, so there was bad blood there. So I went and rented a space that had a booth in it and also an audiometer, obviously, and then I had an office and that's all the space I had and I was still paying him 50-50 and I was paying my own audiologist. So you know, those are the things you learn. It's, it's it's crazy to do things like that, but I didn't know any better. And and you know it was the mighty ENT versus the little audiologist. So, as that part of the business started to grow and I was still paying him 50%, which isn't even legal, now you know that's called kickbacks and so and violates the Stark law.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:And so I went to have my taxes done and my accountant said you know, I've always admired you as being a smart person. Yes, I am a smart person. And he said then why are you in this arrangement that clearly is not benefiting you? The average price per square foot then was like $12. And I was paying 60. He said you've got to get out of this agreement. Well, boy, I sweat that.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:I thought, oh, I need that ENT when, really, when I tracked my numbers which I wasn't doing then I wasn't getting many referrals from him and he was getting many more referrals from me I was paying my own audiologist. It was just a crazy business arrangement, but I didn't know any better. So my CPA said you need to learn how to swim with the sharks without getting eaten. I've always been a very proud person and I was proud that I was working hard and making good money, but I wasn't making nearly what I should or could have been. So I stood about it for about a week and I thought I got to do it. I got to go tell him.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So I went in. I had all my numbers together. I said you know, I'm bringing you the average of this many referrals a month. You're only giving me the average of this many referrals a month. I'm spending all this money for this small space and I'm paying my own audiologist. I can't continue to do that. So, to make this arrangement continue to work, this is all I'm going to pay you. And he looked at me. He was stunned, you know, and I said I just can't. And he said okay, I'll go with what you're proposing.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So a couple days later, he had a meeting in his office with all of the staff, including my audiologist that I was paying, and called me everything but nice, all the bad words, and said you don't have to listen to her, she doesn't own this. Who does she think she is? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, she's just an audiologist. Down the hall, and I cried. I felt so bad because I could hear every word. He was a very loud spoken person. I could hear every word. And I thought he said, okay, well, obviously he thought about it. So I went home. I cried I don't do that much, but I did.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:And then I made plans to move out into my own space, which was one of the best business decisions I ever made Because when I got away from that ENT who didn't have the best reputation in town he was a great surgeon but he had absolutely no bedside manner so a lot of people didn't like him and wouldn't come to him, which was also cutting into my business, because they thought if they came to see me in that building that they'd have to see him, the nasty ENT, which wasn't the case at all. So I moved out about two months later and one of the best days of my life was when I built this big, new, beautiful office and he walked in one day and he said clearly you've done very well and you built a destination business which is almost unheard of in healthcare, because I was getting referrals from, you know, 60 miles away. So that was justice with the mighty ENT. So you got to always remember that you are your business, you got to manage it, you got to look at your numbers and you got to make sure that it's benefiting you and that the employee relationship that you have is benefiting you. So if you have employees that aren't benefiting the business, I remember when I got into terrible shape in 2008 when the economy tanked and I had just expanded, over-expanded, spent way too much and I was broke.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:No, I was worse than broke. I had bills we couldn't pay. I wasn't watching my numbers closely. I was too busy building this big, new, beautiful office that was expanding and I was doing really well before this expansion. But then when the economy tanked, you know, I didn't have as much money coming in and I couldn't pay things. So my husband said who's always been my most ardent supporter he said you know what to do, jill, you just have to do it. And he was right. I had to fire four people. I had to go to the manufacturers and say I need extra time.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:And I did all that and it worked. I paid up. I had to take a second mortgage on the house and I paid it off within a year. And I cut all the programs that weren't making me money, like I was doing Medicaid at the time, which is a very unprofitable business, at least here in Michigan, and one of the employees was seeing Medicaid patients like six times a month. We weren't getting reimbursed for all those visits, it was just something to keep her busy. So if a program is not making the business money, then you really need to get out of the program. So I cut programs. I got that second mortgage. I went without a salary for a couple months, just took money to pay the bills, and I didn't make any money myself and, before you knew it, in one year I was back in the black and I learned the valuable lesson that you can't have more month than money and you've got to watch your numbers. And so, to this day, that's why I'm such a numbers cruncher, because I've been there, I've been broke and I've made money, and it's much better to make money.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So I was talking about my husband, who's always been my most ardent supporter and partner. We worked together for 36 years and I want him to tell you a little bit about working with a spouse, because whoops coffee. So I'm going to get my husband, david, and I want him to tell you a little bit about what it was like to work with a wife and a spouse, because it is many practices I know of where the husband and wife work together and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. So we're going to give you a little few clues. So let me go get my husband David. So this is my husband, david.
David Kasewurm:Hello everyone.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Having a good day today.
David Kasewurm:Having a great day, yeah.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:What are you going to do today?
David Kasewurm:I'm going to go buy some toilets.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Oh my God, david, you didn't really want to say you were going to go buy toilets, did you? Well, that's what I'm going to do.
David Kasewurm:And why are we buying toilets? Tell everybody Because the ones we have are too low. We need taller ones.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:because both of us have bad knees. Wow, now, that's more information than you ever expected to get out of us, isn't it? Actually, some people think that having a low toilet's a good thing, because it's kind of like doing squats, but when you have bad knees, squats don't work. So, david, what was it like working with your wife?
David Kasewurm:It was quite the adventure.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, it was quite the adventure, all right. So what were some of the good times?
David Kasewurm:The good times were just being together.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Really, you don't expect people to believe that, do you?
David Kasewurm:That's the truth.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Sometimes it's too much togetherness, but what's one kind of like oh, what's the word I want to use One kind of like philosophy that we lived by.
David Kasewurm:One philosophy.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:When we worked together all those years. Make it fun, make it fun, yeah, oh, now I would have said the philosophy was that I was the boss.
David Kasewurm:Well, you were the boss, Still are.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, that's true. So one of the reasons that you have to do that is you can't have two bosses. I mean, you can have somebody who's in charge of one thing, but when it came to business decisions, while David was a very ardent supporter, it was clear that you know, because I was the audiologist and it was a hearing health care practice you know I was the one that decided, and so many times, like at three in the morning, I would wake up- yeah, still do. I still do Yep, and why would I wake?
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:you up at three in the morning.
David Kasewurm:It's nothing nasty. So because you had an idea.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, I would. I would wake up with ideas, because I'm kind of an idea monkey. And were any of my ideas really crazy? Yeah, well, name me one crazy idea.
David Kasewurm:Having that bus.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Oh yeah, that bus was a crazy idea. That was dumb, it was beautiful and it was great for wine trips or wine tours. But it wasn't for crap, for business, because it's hard to get in a Greyhound bus. It was winter in.
David Kasewurm:Michigan, so that was really hard. Customers don't want a place, that they're only there one day a week.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, I mean, I know some people do concierge, but that's more going to the patients, to the patient coming to us. And the last month we had that business we spent like what $2,200 on every pair of hearing aids we sold in advertising. So so that didn't go well. So so some of the pros, honey, you got to look at the camera over there. See that camera right there. There's the camera.
David Kasewurm:Oh, okay.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So some of the pros were we had tremendous flexibility.
David Kasewurm:We did.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:We got to travel a lot.
David Kasewurm:We did that was always fun. I still love it.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Still love it. We still do it. What was it like running that industrial business while I was in the clinic?
David Kasewurm:Well, it was exhausting because there were long hours driving from one location to another. The only good thing we were home on weekends, because factories aren't open on weekends.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Most aren't anyway no-transcript put a lot of miles on. I remember one May which was our busiest month. I think you were gone all but three days that month. It was awful, I didn't like being by myself. So then we hired somebody to run that industrial business and you really grew it and then we bought another one. So that helped the business grow and then you moved in the office with moi.
David Kasewurm:Yes, my office was in one corner and your office was in the other corner which is a good reasons.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, for good reasons. Yep, and so we, um, I remember one time we had a really big fight. Do you remember? We didn't have many fights, especially not the office, cause we were both too busy to worry about it, but we had um a really big fight. Once you remember that big fight we had at the office? That happened first thing. How could you not remember? Are you losing your mind?
David Kasewurm:I am.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:It was because I asked you a question and I had sent you an email earlier.
David Kasewurm:Oh, that's right.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:And I went, and so I'm anally organized, would you say. I'm anally organized, yes, yeah, and so I'm anally organized, which you have to be if you're going to do so many things at once. You got to be organized, and so I went to his desk and opened and looked on his computer and he had like 9,000 emails with no organization. Made me mad. And then so we got in a fight and he wasn't having any of it. David's not a fighter, and are you? Nope, nope. And so he just was going to walk away from me while I let him know that wasn't going to happen. So I was following on his heels and it was like 8 o'clock in the morning, so it was a really bad time not to have a fight, because it kind of put a damper on the day. Let's just say that. And so what did you do? Do you remember I?
David Kasewurm:think I got in my car and went for a drive.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, that's what you did. And then one of David's favorite patients came in and said where's my honey? And the receptionist said he stepped out. And by lunch we were laughing about it, but it wasn't too funny at the time.
David Kasewurm:So do you have any tips for the people out there on what you can do for if you're going to work?
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:with your spouse, communicate and have a sense of humor. Yeah, we always had a sense of humor about a lot of things. We had a sense of humor about a lot of things. We laughed a lot and it really helped when we brought our dog to work, don't you think? Definitely so.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Dave and I were married a long time before we were responsible enough to get a dog, and when we were married, 25 years before we got a dog, I think so, yeah, I know so. And when we start bringing the dog to work, at least we had more to talk about. And if I was stressed about something, the dog helped take stress off of me. And patients love the dog, love the dog. But after we got a dog, I knew why we didn't have any children, because we're totally different in how we would raise children or how we were going to raise the dog. So I know that sounds crazy, but it's true. So I know more and more people now that do work with their spouses. So what were some of the other good things that came with working together? I remember a soundproof booth story. Well, yeah, that was fun at lunchtime. You, betcha, you can. Who's ever out there? You can take that for what it is, but one thing that I'm very much into is goal setting. You're not so much, are you?
David Kasewurm:No, I'm not a goal setter. Why? I don't know. I don't know why?
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Because you didn't have to, because I did it all the time?
David Kasewurm:Probably, probably yeah.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:I would say that you and I are about as opposite as they come Correct. I mean, we both love to travel. Opposites attract, opposites attract. I'm very high strung and you're very steady, except on the golf course. You're not very steady on the golf course.
David Kasewurm:Correct, I'm prepared he's.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:That's where he gets anal. But so we set goals and I'll tell you what you know. When you get to our age or now, you're supposed to ask my age or his age, cause there's quite a difference.
David Kasewurm:Yes, there is, I'm 74.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:My God, you don't have to tell my old door and I'm a lot younger than he is, and you can take that for whatever it is. But so the goals were important because we learned how to save a lot of money, how to put saving and tithing first, and you got to have a lot of money when you retire, don't you? Yes, if you want to live in the lifestyle that you've become accustomed to, which is ours, it's a very good lifestyle. We live in Naples for over six months a year. We just bought a new house and redid it. That was a fun thing. I love doing stuff like that. The only thing I can't redo is you.
David Kasewurm:Sorry.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So the saving was important. Right, you had to make sure all the bills were paid paid on time. Yes, you had to make sure that we were saving money every month.
David Kasewurm:Yes.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So that was important.
David Kasewurm:Anything else you think that somebody should know about working with their spouse?
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Like I said, to just have a sense of humor and communicate, communicate. Now I know sometimes it drove you crazy, because when I would get home I wanted to talk about work and you were done with work when you got home.
David Kasewurm:You're right. So, but when you own a business, that's what you have to do, I guess.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, I mean.
David Kasewurm:There's no eight-hour days.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:There's no eight-hour days, and anybody that owns a business knows that. And we didn't have children, so I think that made our lives a little more workable, with both working in the business, because, you know but David helped a lot of people in my family You'd go pick up the kids from school, and you know. So some responsibilities like that fell to you and we became a very non-traditional arrangement, don't you think? And you were okay with that.
David Kasewurm:I was why Still out, I don't know. It was just easy to do and even after not just picking up the kids at school but picking up patients and bringing them to the office.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, we did that. I know it's a bit of a liability, but we did it. It worked out well, Except one lady you remember. She lived in the high rise right near our office and when I found out David was taking her to the liquor store after her appointment, I had to put a kibosh to that. You can't take people to a liquor store.
David Kasewurm:Well, she needed her alcohol and cigarettes.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, so anyway, it worked out well for us, and we're still speaking now that we're going to spend a lot more time together.
David Kasewurm:Yes, we do.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So I think the tip I would have for that is you have to have somebody who drives the business and you have to know who that is. Somebody who drives the business and you have to know who that is, and that person makes most of the. You have to have somebody who's going to drive the business and that person makes most of the decisions because you've got it Like he wouldn't know, like should I take this program? Should I not take this program? How much time should we allow for this? Should we start getting some different equipment or start looking for new referral sources? That was stuff that you didn't really ever have to handle, correct.
David Kasewurm:You handled some of the insurance. I just needed to be supportive.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Well, you did more than be supportive, I mean.
David Kasewurm:Yeah, but handle the stuff that you did need to handle. Yeah, I'll tell you, just like an audiology assistant does stuff that you don't need to handle.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, we always had audiology assistants one assistant for every audiologist or every hearing healthcare professor. We've had some great dispensers and they've had assistants and it's been really what drove the business. Living in a small town, it's tough to get a hearing healthcare provider anywhere. Now Everybody's crying for them and we never thought about making you a hearing instrument specialist because it just wasn't your thing. He wears hearing aids, still can't hear a word I say, and that's been really helpful for me to understand more of what he goes through with the hearing loss, because I think he should hear things when I'm in another room and he doesn't do that. So that's made it interesting.
David Kasewurm:Nobody can, nobody can, nobody can no.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So that's made it interesting Nobody can, nobody can, nobody can no. So it worked well for us. Since I call this always outrageous, what are some of the more outrageous things we ever did?
David Kasewurm:Well, buying a house in Florida.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah, this is our fourth place in Florida in 11 years, because I keep wanting something bigger and I love redoing things, and it's been very good for us. Financially it has been, so it's a great life. I think we're really blessed. Yes, we are. I don't think we'd have the life we have now if we hadn't chosen to work together, correct? I remember one outrageous thing we did is we were going to a meeting in Chicago, remember it was an industrial meeting and we pulled up.
David Kasewurm:Oh yeah.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:And tell them what we did.
David Kasewurm:We went shopping.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:Yeah. He pulled up and said I don't really want to do this today to you and I said, hell, no, I don't want to do it. No, we were in Oak, we were in Oak Brook to you and I said, hell, no, I don't want to do it. We were in Oakbrook in Chicago and so we just went shopping. You know, those are some of the things you can do. Or if it's a beautiful day, you could say, hey, let's go out and golf. Um, it's not as easy to do, but as I got out more out of patient care and just running the business and had so many employees, it became a little easier. So I thank you, dear, for being my most ardent supporter You're welcome and for helping us grow that business. You're welcome Because we did do it together.
David Kasewurm:We did.
Dr. Gyl Kasewurm:So, boo, thank you for listening to my Always Outrageous podcast. Join me again next month when I'm going to have Dr Dave Fabry on and we're going to talk about a lot of stuff. I know Dave pretty well. I can tell you some secrets, so please join me again for Dr Jill Always Outrageous. Thanks and have a great day. Bye.