Becoming

In the final chapter of this three-part sister series, we look back at the breaking point that changed everything.

Joined once again by my sisters Kate and Teresa, we reflect on our final years living under the same roof with our mom—years marked by addiction, instability, and the slow unraveling of the only structure we knew. From her escalating substance use to a devastating car accident that nearly took her life, we talk about the moment we thought things might finally change… and what happened when they didn’t.

This episode dives into the emotional cost of a childhood shaped by instability, addiction, and undiagnosed mental illness. We reflect on the toll it took on our sense of identity, our relationships, and our ability to feel safe in the world. While the journey into early adulthood is explored more fully in the next series, this conversation begins to unpack the long shadow of survival mode—and what it took to make it out.

Host/Producer/Writer/Director: Jenn St John

Editor: Andrew Schiller
Website: www.jennstjohn.ca
Follow along:
Instagram: @jenn_stjohn
LinkedIn: Jenn St John

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Transcript

 The Shadows We Cast:  Transcript for Episode 3

Title of episode:                    Becoming

Episode Number:                  3

Podcast Name:                      The Shadows We Cast

Host Name:                            Jennifer St John

Guest Names:                       Teresa Dunford and Kate Baker

Warnings:                              Explicit adult material – discussions around addiction           and mental illness

Timestamps:                         See below

Length:                                   42 minutes

TRANSCRIPT BODY:

Jennifer St John  00:00

Hello and welcome to The Shadows We Cast, a podcast about what we carry, the impact we leave, and the messy, beautiful reality of mental health. I'm Jen st John, a writer, business owner and a mental health advocate who grew up in a family shaped by mental illness. Some of it was heartbreaking, some of it darkly funny, and all of it shaped who I am today. Here we're going to share honest conversations, stories from me, from you and from those who have walked this road in different ways. Through journal entries, letters from my mom and real conversations, we're going to pull back the layer on mental health, the tough parts, the moments that shaped us and how we move forward together. So grab a coffee, settle in and let's talk.

Jennifer St John  00:52

Hi everyone. In this episode, we discuss some adult themes, including addiction and mental health and trauma. So please just take care and choosing when and where to listen, especially if you're in a sensitive place yourself, or if you have your little ones around. I also wanted to just remind everyone that I'm not a mental health professional, but your hearing is my lived experience, the lived experiences of my sisters in this episode, in living with a parent with undiagnosed and untreated mental illness and having unhealthy coping mechanisms, our goal here is to share, not to diagnose. This is a story about survival and love and adaptability, and we hope that you take what serves you and leave the rest.

Jennifer St John  01:32

So this episode is the last in a three part series where my sisters and I share what it was like to live with my mom during our childhood. So those years under 18 before we all left and went to post secondary school, Teresa and I are still under my mom's roof. At this point, I'm finished up high school. Teresa started high school and finished up Elementary School. Kate saw her own going to college. Now, the letter excerpt that I'm going to start this episode with, timeline wise is while we were still in the US and Kate was back in Canada. We've talked about this transition of all of us having to leave the house before in episodes, but this letter really captures something deeper that I wanted to share with you, which was that emotional weight of all of us having to start being separate from each other. We had spent so long surviving as a unit. We were so tightly woven together that the idea of launching into our own lives, of becoming more felt almost impossible for us. There was always this pull to stay close to home and to protect that fragile stability that we had managed to create with just the three of us, and what we didn't realize then is that we had become each other's grounding force, and stepping forward No, we were losing that and we were learning who we were, outside of being a sister unit under one roof, and outside of being in survival mode. So there were lots of emotions during this time. This is the letter from Kate,

Jennifer St John  02:57

Dearest Jen, hi. I called to say goodbye to you girls, but you were asleep. I got a bit of info that you guys were upset, and I also heard that you were thinking of staying here in Canada. Could you please write me and tell me what happened? I was so upset when I heard that things weren't going so well. Why weren't you allowed to stay? Please don't hold a grudge on me, because I'm staying. By the time I finish university, you'll be starting, and you can come live with me and go to university, and it'll be a blast. I really hope that you girls understand why I'm staying. I love you all so much, and it hurts to be parted from you, but I have to do this. You know, you should get a job now that you're back in Missouri and save your money so you can come up to visit me in Toronto. Jen, I know you and I've been through a lot, but I love you so much. Just keep on praying and believing in yourself, and good things will come out of all this. Please write me and tell me what you are feeling inside. You can confide in me. Always remember that I love you and I'm behind you. Whatever you decide. Good luck in grade nine, and keep up those high grades, because, hon, you're going places. Keep up the art, because that's a special talent that you are superb at. I am here for you, and it doesn't matter how many miles we are apart, you are in my heart and I am in yours.

Jennifer St John  04:11

P.S., please take care of you, Theresa, and send me some pictures. I didn't get anyone I left. P.S.S., Jen, you are the oldest now. Please take good care of Teresa. Do a better job that I did. Remember that she is going through what you are. I seem to have forgotten that in Lake Havasu, and I'm so sorry. I should have been there to help you guys more instead, I distanced myself. I am sorry. I guess I just wasn't very good at handling those situations. Love lots, Kate.

Jennifer St John  04:45

So hearing Kate's letter now feels like this pause before the ground gave way for us. By this point, Kate had already left the home. Teresa and I were still there and kind of trying to hold things together, but everything was really starting to splinter. 

Jennifer St John  04:59

This was the last chapter of us living under the same roof together, and by the end of it, I would leave as well, so would Teresa. And what came next changed everything for us. This is where our conversation picks up.

Jennifer St John  05:12

What happened was Tom came up illegally to Canada, was working under the table somewhere, and got caught, and so him having to leave Canada is really what ended their relationship. I would say at that point, it had been probably almost two years that it wasn't good at all. I can remember now him being somebody who was trying to write letters and trying to stay in contact and trying to make sure that we were somewhat Okay, and Mom wanted zero contact. And it was just yet another person that had been in our life for a certain amount of time that she was ripping away because they wanted to put some care and attention into us. And she was like, Yep, no, out. And then mom and dad got together again. So I can remember that happening, but that wasn't healthy, because, of course, mom wasn't healthy, and that lasted a very short period of time. I think that I already had a foot out the door so much that I was barely at home. And she was going through a bunch of jobs at this time as well. I think she was making like, 35 or $40,000 for the first time in her life, and that was the most that she'd ever made while raising us. You know, as you said, Kate, she was really back involved with the trades at this point. Not that it was fantastic, but I feel like her mental health was a bit more manageable during these periods of time. We were all getting older. Kate was gone. I was about to be gone. Teresa, you were getting more self sufficient. It was almost like my work is done here, and I can remember having those conversations with her. She told us it's quality over quantity. She told us about spending time at home that she didn't need to. It wasn't about the amount of time she spent at home, it was about the quality of what we were doing when she was home, that that was more important. 

Teresa  06:57

Yeah, and I saw some replacement behaviors when we lived there, I felt it was less of a cycle of guys, but that's when she started dabbling with gambling. And so she'd be gone for long stretches to the casino. We'd go to bed, and then we'd wake up the next morning and be getting ready for school, and she'd come in the door and she'd been at the casino all night. There was less of the flow of individuals, but replaced that then with a bit of a fixation of heading to the casino a lot.

Jennifer St John  07:23

,Now, at this point, the relationship with Kate was better, but one of the things we haven't talked about yet, we would often try to sit down and talk to mom as a group, the three of us,

Kate  07:35

Yes.

Jennifer St John  07:36

and try to get her to come to some sort of a realization. We felt like if we all sat down together and we were all super honest, and we were all opening our hearts up to her by how we felt and what we were going through, that that would somehow help her to try to make some changes. And obviously, that didn't ever happen, and her reaction to us doing that was never great. Because, as you said, it wasn't ever that she got great at her mental health. It was that things shifted and it looked different and the behaviors were different, but also the abuse of substances was always there and it was always high, but it had a massive impact on our lives. I can remember begging her to stop drinking. We didn't know at that point what she had mental health wise. We just knew that how she was living and all of these coping mechanisms and behaviors were affecting us. It was the only way for us to articulate or try to talk to her was about what was affecting us. 

 Kate  08:36

We only saw the addiction.

Teresa  08:38

Yup, well, and even then, I saw him as behaviors choices. And it's taken a long, long time for me to see addictions as disease for her, you know. 

Kate  08:50

Yup, oh, absolutely I agree with you. Growing up, that's where the anger comes in. It's like you're making this choice. You're deciding to be this person. You're picking up that drink and hiding that bottle of vodka we had to dump many times.

Jennifer St John  09:04

Even with addiction, at some point, she did make a choice. I feel we felt, why couldn't that choice have been made earlier? So I think that's the where the conflict comes in, as you said, Teresa as we got older, and it was more about education of the disease and really understanding it puts some puzzle pieces together for you, but I think still, at some point there are choices that are made. So it's tricky. It's really tricky. So going to college, it was very hard for me to make that decision to leave, and I was so desperate to leave, I left early that summer. I was just like, I'm out of here. I'm done. And I just tried to stay in as much contact with Teresa as I possibly could. Was fortunate enough that I wasn't physically that far away. Was only three hours. So would come home on the weekends as much as possible. Would write letters and talk, but you definitely had a heck of a time at the end there being on your own with her.

Teresa  10:00

Yeah.

Jennifer St John  10:00

Do you want to? Do you want to speak to that a little bit? 

Teresa  10:03

Yeah, she started to cycle through guys again. The substances were significant, and it felt pretty lonely. I knew that you were all there, but because you weren't there physically with me, that's probably my first time of feeling the weight you guys would have felt all along. Gone were the days of bumping along, because now it's just me and that's her. Yep, I think being a 15, 16, 17, year old is hard enough on its own as you are trying to figure out your own identity. And I don't think that her use of substances and choices at that time did her or I any favors. They created a huge divide. And I also ended up leaving and staying with my then boyfriend, high school boyfriend, family just allowed me to head over for a night or two, and then it leads to three. And there was never this discussion of, can I stay? I just ended up not going back because it was so problematic, and yet I never really talked about that with the parents and boyfriend. We didn't discuss it. I'm sure he probably had some discussions, but it was the safer place for me to be because she was so unwell. 

11:16

And

Jennifer St John  11:17

And I remember at this point housing wise, it was quite bad too. It was very low income, just a one bedroom too, like she couldn't even afford a two bedroom. 

Teresa  11:27

It was.

Jennifer St John  11:28

Yeah, so it was really, it was you were just being displaced, physically, let alone emotionally and mentally where you want to be.

Teresa  11:35

Yeah.

Jennifer St John  11:36

And then for you in your last year of school, and this is a really big timeline moment for us was when mom had her car accident. I can remember my then boyfriend, now husband. We had been there to visit you guys. You were over with your boyfriend. 

Teresa  11:52

Yep.

Jennifer St John  11:52

Mom was absolutely inebriated, like falling down drunk. It was like Sunday night, and we were all just trying to get out of there, and she had been talking about driving, and obviously we're not in control of her, and we have tried the best we can to keep her safe from drinking and driving at this point for like 19 years. Sure enough, after we left, she did go driving, and single vehicle accident completely totalled her car, and she actually ended up breaking her neck. You were called. 

Teresa  12:22

She called me.

Jennifer St John  12:23

And you called all of us, and we all made our way to Sunnybrook Hospital. We were told that if the break had of happened differently in her spinal cord, she would have either been paraplegic or dead. So that was a pretty big moment. Teresa, do you want to talk a little bit about that. And then Kate can?

Teresa  12:42

Yeah, I was at my boyfriend's, and it was early, early in the morning, and she called and said that they were going to airlift her down to a hospital in Toronto, and that she needed me to come. I don't even remember getting information about where she was or anything, because, again, she seemed out of it and when I was speaking with her, but then I remember making the call to you guys and feeling guilt, because when we had left the apartment the night before, I didn't want anything to do with her. It just irritated me beyond belief, that she was so intoxicated, I had a very visceral like, I didn't want to be near her that night, and then she almost lost her life. So that was a big struggle, and I was so grateful that when I got to the hospital, we all rallied. Aunt Tara was there. You guys were there. And I just remember feeling less alone than what I had, because as much as I was living at the boyfriend, I was still that main point of contact for mom. I would still see her and stuff. It was just dysfunctional. But that was also then a shift for me, because then I had to move back because she, she needed our care. It's my grade 12 year, so that's the year that you're trying to put your best foot forward. And I also am having those thoughts of wanting to get out and get away from this, but then being pulled right back in because now she has a need.

Jennifer St John  14:08

Well, financially, like you were working a lot to try and get groceries in the house, and teachers were coming down on you hard because you're missing stuff at school, and you're just literally trying to survive. 

Teresa  14:19

Yeah.  

Jennifer St John  14:21

And Kate, I know it was huge for you. You were pregnant with your first child.

Kate  14:25

Yeah. So getting that call from T I knew right away something was wrong, because she was very emotional, of course, and trying to communicate when it happened. And so, yeah, my then husband at the time, and me, six months pregnant, jump into a car, and we're living in Kingston at the time, and we start driving towards Toronto, and all I could think of was, did she hurt somebody else? Because all along, our mother had been in multiple accidents because of her drinking, and fortunately, had not hurt anybody else. Had hurt herself. And I thought, is this going to be the time? Is this the time where she's killed somebody, or she seriously harmed somebody, and having to deal with that, that were my thoughts and emotions that I was going through as I drove to Sunnybrook. 

Jennifer St John  15:10

Yeah, I got the same phone call. Trey was very emotional, and I know what was just able to make out everybody needs to get to Sunnybrook. I think we've always been good at this, but I feel like we all come together for anything that ever happens. But I definitely felt like she was close to her sisters when she let them be close, instantly it was like our aunts were there. And so I felt that same feeling Teresa where it was. We're all just gonna figure this out. I could remember because mom was in the hospital for think it was like one to two weeks when she got out of ICU, and then she was in a regular hospital room. I remember they were setting up the hospital bed in the apartment. They were really trying to help us get her set up, and they knew the onus would be on us, but as usual, mom also would have to open the door and let them in to help her, and she wasn't good at that. I remember Aunt Erin would sit at the bottom of the stairs at that door for hours, and mom just wouldn't open the door. I was so thankful she was alive, because obviously you don't want her to die, but you want her to get better. And I felt like this was her rock bottom. I felt how much worse can it get? Literally, in every fiber of my body felt things are going to change now. that's what happened for me with the accident. I went home with her. Kate was working full time and living in Kingston, Teresa's. You were there and I was at school, but I took a break for a couple of weeks. I remember when she initially came home and helped with her being home, because that was pretty intensive care. You're giving medication every three hours, and it's dawning on her big time at this point. She's went through detox in the hospital at ICU, so she's sober because now she's literally got a halo drilled into her skull, and she's in a hospital bed. So unless she's being given alcohol or given drugs. She's not getting anything other than her pain medication. I think that was a clarity point for her. The only time she ever said anything remotely close to this was where she had said to me, I don't know why you guys are still in my life. She really had a moment where it was like, holy shit. I've put you guys through a lot, and I can't believe you're still here. That was a big deal for me to hear. I wish you guys had been in the room to hear that too. I think that's what gave me hope, is that I came away from that experience feeling this is going to be a change. How was the rest of your school year, Teresa, of grade 12?

Teresa  17:41

Tough, like really tough. I think that's when my body started to react to the stress, even if I couldn't identify it as stress. I went through a significant period of time really struggling with migraines. I would say probably that last part of grade 12, much of first year, I really struggled navigating my body experiencing the stress. You went back to school and I stayed with mom, and it's still this disconnected relationship. We both loved each other fiercely, but Mom was just going through so much, just like you said in her own mind and heart. I still just wanted to get out yet you're pulled so much in because of the love you have that I just wanted to wrap her in bubble wrap and make sure that she just always be okay. It was such a moment for me of how we almost lost her. Just really fixated on trying to hang on tight, is how I felt. 

Teresa  18:39

What

Jennifer St John  18:40

What about you, Kate, what was your post reaction to that accident, that point in our lives?

Kate  18:46

I think the same. You're so angry and frustrated, but then when she was hurt and really needed us, kind of put that aside and you're there to help and support. I remember coming up to help with the bathing and the taking care of trying to do the best I could do, being 6, 7, 8, months pregnant, but I wasn't like you, Jen. I was sure she was going to return to her behavior. I had no faith at that time. I had no hope at that time.

Speaker 1  19:13

You

Jennifer St John  19:13

You were right, because my hope may have been misplaced, but I think I needed to believe things could still change. 

Kate  19:20

I just didn't feel that there was going to be any change or difference. And I think that comes from many years of being angry and frustrated and I didn't look to hope or faith. I just was like, Yeah, this is what it is, and this is who she is. 

Jennifer St John  19:33

Well after the aftermath of the accident, and everything went back to normal when she healed, I also did not have any hope.

Jennifer St John  19:42

That accident was a breaking point, and in some ways, it felt like it could be the beginning of change. But real change doesn't always follow rock bottom, and for each of us, stepping into adulthood came with its own challenges. As we moved into early adulthood, the weight of what we'd lived through began to show up in new ways. So we wanted to take a moment to reflect on that shift, what we carried with us and what we began to grow from.

Jennifer St John  20:10

What do you think had this point, some of the strengths and some of the weaknesses were for you going into early adulthood, having had this childhood experience?

Kate  20:22

I would say a lack of understanding of a healthy relationship. I really do feel my upbringing definitely contributed to my first marriage not working out. I mean, it's always a give and take with two people, right? But really, when I reflect back on it, the weakness was I didn't really have a great example of what a healthy relationship between a husband and wife look like. And even being a mother, that was my biggest fear. I wanted to be pregnant. I wanted to have kids, but the initial next feeling was fear of, am I going to do the same things? Am I going to make the same mistakes?

Teresa  20:57

I share exactly what you're saying also, I felt weak in character. I think, heading into adulthood, I felt unsettled in the lack of some of those foundational pieces that should have been there in a parenting, child relationship.  I just I didn't know my worth. Maybe I went back to bumping along. I don't know I would say that I wasn't giving this world much of me because I didn't know what I was. I didn't feel relatable to any of my peers. Anybody that I did spend time with hadn't had the experiences that I had, and I didn't talk about them because I was conditioned to not talk about them. So you try and act, I say normal, that's not even the great word, but like you try to act typical, like everybody else does, but it just always felt like a facade. It took a long time for me to form a sense of identity. Well, well, well into my adulthood, right? 

Jennifer St John  21:58

Like just to find out who you really are.

Teresa  22:01

And feel strong enough to even pose that question to myself, because you just kind of got through each moment. You didn't think big picture, little picture. Who am I? Like? You didn't do the introspective work you were just trying to get through. That's what I feel like childhood was for us. It was just one day to the next. It's just what you did. 

Jennifer St John  22:21

So you just felt like you were very much in survival mode still. I think fight or flight instinct was huge, massive, massive for me, that's good to have on a normal level, but we had it at such a high level that that really affected the next decade for me, I was fortunate enough to get therapy closer to being in my 30s, and I was able to deal with it. It's very normal, and it has been since then. I think growing up too fast. There's a lot of downside to that, and not a lot of positive. My whole life, people have said, I can't believe you're the age you are, especially growing up up to 18 and even kind of late 20s. If I was meeting newer people through work or whatever, people would just be like, you're 25, how could you possibly be 25 people comment on it like, it's a good thing. Oh, you're so mature, you're so wise, or you act so much older than your age, and it's actually a trauma response. It isn't a healthy thing. It's not a good thing, because we've had to grow up so fast and that, you know, fear, sense of independence that I know all three of us have again, it helped us, and it helped us get through, and it's what we needed, and thank goodness we had it. But it is not always positive thing to have fight or flight instinct and to be super independent, that's a hard way to enter the world at 18. What about strengths? Positive strengths? 

Kate  23:56

Yeah, and see, that's interesting that you word it that way, because when you first talked about strengths. I was thinking about some strengths. Sounds like, well, those were trauma responses, not strength, whereas being able to adapt to change and do all of those things really wasn't a strength. So wow, for me to look at a positive strength, I would say perseverance, having been through everything we went through, that that was a strength for me, for when I went through things in my early adulthood, and even up to today, being able to what's the word I'm looking for, to withstand the storm, and know now that we've been through a storm and gotten to the other side of it, that this at some point will end, so no matter what the storm has been through my adulthood, knowing that at some point this will end and just be strong, just persevere and have some positive self talk, I guess for me, is the strength. 

Jennifer St John  24:48

Teresa, what do you feel? 

Teresa  24:50

Probably I would say tenacity. I think those adverse experiences that we had, which were far too plentiful, made me tenacious.  And working towards what I wanted to do. Unfortunately, in my first year of post secondary, I experienced violence in my relationship, and I had the strength to leave the first time. I didn't stick around, no matter the fact that I hadn't been role modeled for me, I didn't stick around, and it was hard. It was hard to go through the whole court system like Kate went to trial with me, and it was so hard. I always circle back to this, but for me, you guys were so pivotal. Jen, you picked me up out of that place, and I came out to Edmonton and spent the summer with you.  Kate, I came right to you immediately when that happened and stayed with you, and you helped me through that entire process. The strength that I took, I drew from you guys, but I think it was just tenacity of like, somehow, some way I'll get through this, and it's what I have led ever more in my adult life. There's always a way through, you just gonna find it. 

Jennifer St John  25:00

I definitely feel both of you guys have said, I think also, and I think you guys have this strength as well, is that being raised by a parent who's undiagnosed and untreated with mental health gives you a very big heart, and I think that you have a level of understanding and compassion that not everybody is necessarily going to have having not been through what we have gone through. And I think that has been a great positive strength to come out of all of this for all of us, and it's quite important. We've shared how those earlier shaped our fears, our relationships and our sense of self, but the heart of this podcast is also about reaching outward, about what we would offer to somebody still in the middle of it.

Jennifer St John  26:50

The reason why we're trying to be so open and honest about our experiences is we want to make sure that people know they're not alone if they're experiencing something like this, also if there's any of our thoughts or our ideas or our advice or our coping mechanisms, whatever it is, if there's some way that we can pay it forward or help somebody else out who's going through this, because we definitely know that wasn't around for us when we were going through it. So one of the things I would ask you is, if you knew somebody right now, say they were a teen who was going through this experience, and I know it's a big question, but what do you think you could say to even just try to start to help them, or give them advice, or steer them in a direction that you feel could help? 

Teresa  27:33

I feel like I would want to just help them find their voice, because I feel like our voice was muted out of mom's need to keep the information private, and so I didn't feel like I had a voice a lot in life. And again, circling back to connection, just find and maintain those connections. Reach out to the people around you, not only for solace in the moment, but that help is there, and it's hopefully readily available, but just finding the strength to have their voice, because it takes a village, right? I definitely think I could have been way more vocal other than to you guys. I feel like I opened up to you guys a lot, but I sure kept that rule strong of not sharing information to my detriment, probably in a lot of ways. 

Speaker 1  28:23

And I think

Kate  28:25

And I think to build on what Teresa is saying that's very important about the voice and helping that individual realize that if they can find one adult they can trust and build on that trusting relationship.  Let them know that it's okay, it's okay to talk about it. It's going to be hard, it's going to be difficult, it's going to be messy, but by opening up and talking about it, it will get better, and if you don't open up and talk about it, it will get worse. Some of the things we haven't talked about is some of the behaviors we did to hurt ourselves, and that was part of our coping because we weren't able to open up and talk about it, some of that was an eating disorder for me, and later in my adulthood that we'll talk about in the next segment is some addiction for me. And if I had had that person to talk to early on and work through those emotions and feelings, I might have saved myself from some of those things.

Jennifer St John  29:18

 Yeah, I agree with both of you. I think that you feel so utterly alone. As you said, trace the loneliness is so visceral, and it's so palpable that I would give them a really big hug. I think that the importance of having even one person you can talk to, whether it's a friend's parent or it's a friend, or it's a teacher or it's someone at work, but just having somebody you can trust, they might not be able to solve all your problems, because that's not what it's about. As you said, Kate, it's literally is just being able to actually have someone you can talk to, and then with time, hopefully there can be some support. Obviously, we didn't know that mom actually had mental health illness. It was the alcoholism that I felt affected my life the most as a child. After mom had her accident and she didn't get better, I went to Al Anon. I mean, I didn't go for very long, because we ended up moving out west, but seeking out some support group, however, that looks whether it's through the school or it's through community. I know they have teen Al Anon groups, but that was a big piece of it too, is that you're not alone. There's lots of people who are going through this. They're all trying to support each other. And as you said, it's going to be messy, it's not going to be great. It's not going to be great for a while, but if you can make some steps towards that, there is going to be change.

Jennifer St John  31:08

The other thing I wanted to ask you guys, and I'm sure we've all felt this because we want to pass on this information to help others. But what would you say to yourself say at like, eight or 10 or 12 that you think could have helped or changed things? 

Kate  31:24

I'm going to build on what Teresa said, my voice, and just not take mom's threats and just get past that and tell as many people as I could at that time, whether it was family, whether it was school, people in hopes that somebody would help. We know these days absolutely right away things would be put in place. I'm not so sure about back then, but we don't know, because we never did that. I think if I had to say anything, it would be that. It would be, tell people, tell lots of people, and keep telling until help came.

Jennifer St John  31:54

Teresa?

Teresa  31:56

I would tell myself it's not okay, because I got so used to telling myself that it's okay because the next day it usually got tougher and harder and worse. Every day, I was just It's okay, it's okay. It's okay because it will be okay somehow, some way. But as much as that's part of the mindset when things are not okay, it's it's appropriate to identify that. And much like Kate said, find your ally and share that it's not okay. Be okay with being able to identify that instead of it just it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. 

Jennifer St John  32:32

Yeah, absolutely what you guys are saying. And I think that more understanding of what she was actually going through earlier would have been really helpful, because I think that sense of hope, or that sense of, oh, there's going to be some magic thing that's going to happen and everything's going to get better. You're not in control of her. We're only in control of ourselves. But when your child living under a roof with someone like that is having a massive impact on you. But I think that would have helped my head and my heart to understand things a bit better and probably manage things a bit better as I went into adulthood. I think that would have been helpful as well.

Teresa  33:13

And that's what I love about being in a digital world now versus what we were in the sense that I want people to know that there's resources and help there. It can be small scale or it can be large scale, but it's there, and sometimes even feeling the support of other people around you can be huge in how you get through something. And so I love that there is opportunity for connectedness now more than ever, because we were geographically isolated in a lot of ways, and forced to be emotionally isolated from a lot of people. I love the opportunities for this upcoming generation and just where we are of disability, because we didn't have that, and that could have been pivotal in our journey. 

Jennifer St John  33:59

Oh, I agree 100%.

Kate  34:01

Absolutely. And in mom's journey, if we were able to talk to people and get help for ourselves, then help would come for her. If we were able to say, this is not okay, this is what's happening, and did it in a way that also got her help earlier on, like you say, Jen about being able to understand and be compassionate towards what she was going through, versus how we survived in our frustration and anger? 

Jennifer St John  34:24

Yeah, because there's only two ways this could go get help and start to make changes, which obviously will have a ripple effect on you, or this person in your life is not going to get help, and you have to deal with that situation and help yourself. And so I think that the day and age that we're in right now is helpful for both of those roads shall we say?

Jennifer St John  34:50

As we begin to wrap up, we just wanted to pause and ask, what else would we say to the younger versions of ourselves or anyone growing up in a similar storm. 

Jennifer St John  35:02

Is there anything else before we go that you feel like you want to share about this period of time in your lives? 

Kate  35:08

I just think the reason that we are able to do this today and talk here today, the three of us, is because we had us. We had each other. We have survived a lot, and to talk about it still is emotional, and I'm 53 years old in a couple of weeks, and it's been quite a journey. But I think the fact that we had each other through each age and stage and phase throughout it all is the reason we are here today in this podcast and can speak to what we're speaking to, and I really hope that it impacts people that are listening.

Teresa  35:45

And I just want people to understand that we we are doing this to provide a space for people to understand what our journey was, what our interpretation of mom's journey was, and to provide a sense of community for those that may be going through it, and hopefully be able to help them.  What I don't want to get lost in how we talk about a lot of things that weren't so ideal for us is the love we had for mom, the love mom had for us, the love we all shed for each other. There's lots of positive memories from our childhood, but there's also lots of really horrific memories, and it's feeling a lot of big feelings all at once that is our reality. And so it's hard to talk about this hard stuff, and it's hard to get through it, but talking about it has been a huge part of healing for us. 

Jennifer St John  36:43

No absolutely, and being able to be open and honest and transparent, it's processing too. A lot of what you have to do, which we'll get into in the next series, is okay, you survived. You got out. The impact of the negative side isn't hitting you on a daily basis or assaulting you on a daily basis, but it's still there, and now it's been a much bigger journey, I feel like trying to now figure out how to live your life and how to deal with all of this, and how to process all of this and become a member in the community you know, productive and have a family of your own if that's what you choose to do, it's a big way to start your life. And yes, Teresa is absolutely it wasn't all horrible. There was obviously lots of love. But I think understanding that somebody can love you fiercely, but they can still hurt you fiercely too. There's nothing wrong with saying that, and there's nothing wrong with being honest about that, and that's the reality of the situation when you're dealing with addiction and mental health. I think it's really important that, as you said, both of those are supported. But one of the biggest things I hear, because I've been doing this now since 2016 is that people still feel badly about even talking about their experience. They don't want to offend or hurt the person who hurt them, and I don't think that's healthy. I think that you have to be able to process your own trauma and be able to be honest about your own story in order to help yourself.  You're not trying to hurt anybody else. You're trying to help yourself.

Teresa  38:25

Yeah.

Kate  38:26

Agreed.

Jennifer St John  38:29

So that was a lot. I know that these conversations aren't easy, but they are necessary. This wraps up the first sister series. So this was a look back at our childhood and what it was like growing up with a parent navigating mental illness and addiction. These past few episodes have been very raw and emotional and very vulnerable. So I just want to say thank you for still being here and for listening and for witnessing and holding the space with us. This first series holds two truths that don't always sit easily beside each other. There is power in telling your story and putting words to what was once unspeakable and letting the weight out and not carrying that weight alone anymore and letting others in. Sometimes, speaking is how we reclaim our voice and how we remind ourselves that we matter, and also there's wisdom in knowing when to be still, not silence rooted in fear or shame, but silence chosen with intention, with clarity and with grace. Here's the thing, though, that kind of silence can't come while you're still in survival mode. It just doesn't work that way. It doesn't arrive when your nervous system is lit up and when you're bracing for the next blow, or when you haven't yet found a safe place to land, both externally and internally. Graceful silence, that kind that heals, that comes later, when the storm has passed and when the chaos has settled when you've begun to make peace with your past and you can sit with your story without needing to outrun it or overshare it. And that's what we'll begin to explore in the next part of this sister series, what it looks like to move beyond survival, to step into early adulthood, carrying all that we've been through and still try to build lives and relationships and identities with this weight in tow. So if you've ever wondered whether to speak or stay silent, to share or to shield, maybe it's not about choosing one over the other. Maybe it's about learning when each one serves you best. Some days we need to speak. Some days we need to find quiet peace. Both can be healing and both can be brave and knowing the difference, that's something that we can only grow into, something we become with time, safety and self trust. 

Jennifer St John  40:55

Next week, we're stepping outside of the family lens to feature powerful stories from people who've created mental health organizations rooted in personal experience. I can't wait to share their stories with you, because there's just so much to learn from and explore. If this episode or podcast brings up anything hard, please don't deal with it alone. In Canada, you can call the 24/7 Crisis Line at one, triple eight, 893, eight. Triple, three. So again, that's 1-888-893-8333. There's always someone available to help. If creativity, not just artistic, creativity, helps you cope, then join us in the hashtag create calm mental health movement. Share what brings you stillness and tag us. We're building a space there where caring for your mind is celebrated. If this episode resonated with you, I'd love to hear from you. You can find our socials in the notes, or visit Jenn St john.ca that's j, e, n, n, s, t, J, O, H n.ca to connect and explore more. We also have a library of mental health resources available there.

Jennifer St John  42:09

Please subscribe, share or leave a review if you feel moved to and whatever part of your own journey that you're on, whether it's sharing, shielding or simply surviving. I'm so glad you're here and we'll talk soon.

CLOSING NOTE: This transcript was created for accessability and connection. Thanks for listening to The Shadows We Cast.