Gone

Some endings arrive slowly. Ours did not.

In this final episode of Season 1, my sisters and I share the most personal part of our story—the goodbye. After years of surviving our mom’s untreated mental illness and addiction, and then finding our way back to her during her recovery, we were finally in a good place. A healthy place. A place where laughter came easy and trust was being rebuilt. And then, in 2017, we lost her.

Diagnosed with terminal lung cancer just two months before she passed, our mom’s final chapter was fast, devastating, and unexpectedly filled with grace. Two weeks after her diagnosis, our beloved Aunt Terry was diagnosed with the same illness. And within ten months, our dad passed away too, leaving us grappling with wave after wave of loss.

This episode is about those final months with our mom. The hospital visits and hospice care. The late-night humor that kept us going when there were no more answers left to find. The tension between wanting to save her and learning, finally, how to just be with her. It’s about what it means to love someone fiercely—even when that love was hard-won and complicated.

And it’s also about the legacy she left behind. About the strength we found in each other, and how grief shaped us into something softer, stronger, and more honest.

All season long, we’ve been pulling back the curtain on what it means to grow up in the shadow of mental illness and addiction—and how, even in the aftermath, healing is possible. This final chapter closes that story for now, but it also opens the door to what comes next.

Thank you for walking with us through the messy middle of our lives. Thank you for holding space for these conversations. And thank you for reminding us that even in the hardest endings, love remains.

Host/Producer/Writer/Director: Jenn St John

Editor: Andrew Schiller
Website: www.jennstjohn.ca
Follow along:
Instagram: @jenn_stjohn
LinkedIn: Jenn St John

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Transcript

Podcast:  The Shadows We Cast

Episode Title:  Gone

Host/Producer:  Jenn St John

Guests:  Kate Baker and Teresa Dunford

Running time:  1:10:00

Warning:  This episode includes candid discussions about terminal illness, addiction, trauma, and anticipatory grief. 

TRANSCRIPT:

 Teresa  00:01

Two months and 10 days from when mom was a healthy individual who thought she was healthy to when she passed, it happened so quickly. You sit in awe. It's like you're disconnected from your life in some ways. You think, how can that person be like getting a coffee or reading a book? How are you doing this? The world has just come to a stop and Time stands still in some ways, you know,

Jennifer St John  00:37

hello and welcome to the shadows. We cast a podcast about what we carry, the impact we leave, and the messy, beautiful reality of mental health. I'm Jen St John, a writer, business owner and a mental health advocate who grew up in a family shaped by mental illness. Some of it was heartbreaking, some of it darkly funny, and all of it shaped who I am. Today. Here we're going to share honest conversations, stories from me, from you and from those who have walked this road in different ways. Through journal entries, letters from my mom and real conversations, we're going to pull back the layer on mental health, the tough parts, the moments that shaped us and how we move forward together. So grab a coffee, settle in and let's talk.

Jennifer St John  01:28

Before we begin. Just a quick note. This episode includes personal stories that touch on mental illness, addiction, trauma and sometimes suicidal ideation. These are sensitive topics shared with care, but they may be difficult to hear, so please listen in a way that feels right for you, also a gentle reminder that I'm not a mental health professional. The conversations you'll hear here are grounded in lived experience, mine and the stories generously shared by others. Our goal is connection, not diagnosis. This is a space for real stories, honest conversations and the hope that by hearing them, we all will feel a little less alone and maybe a little bit more compassionate.

Jennifer St John  02:08

This episode marks the final chapter in season one of the shadows we cast. All season long, my sisters and I have been telling our story, one shaped by a childhood in the shadow of our mom's untreated mental illness and addiction. We've walked through the chaos, the survival, the estrangement and eventually the slow and meaningful reconnection that came later in her life. In 2017 my mom was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer, and just weeks later, her sister, our aunt, Terry, received the same diagnosis, and in less than 10 months after we lost my mom, we also suddenly lost our dad. This episode focuses on those final months with our mom, the shock, the pivoting we all did, the caretaking roles we all took on, the late night humor, the pain, the beauty, the grace, and really this is the end for her. It's also about what it means to love someone so fiercely, even when the path to that love was anything but easy. We're closing this season not just with grief, but with gratitude for the lessons, the legacy and the strength that we all found in each other through it all. This is our goodbye to her. So let's begin. 

Jennifer St John  03:25

Okay, so this is a letter that I wrote to mom. So this would have been May or June of 2017:  Dear Mom, it's yet another night that I'm crying myself to sleep and I can't stop thinking about this shitty situation we're all in. I'm just so sad. I feel like I've had the wind knocked out of me and I can't catch my breath. I don't understand how the world can just keep moving along and keep going each day like nothing has happened. Because for me, time has just taken on a fundamental shift. The notion of it being so precious has never been so profound, and I know that I'm going to be sad and I'm going to be mad for a long time, and I'm okay with that. I'm angry that we're being robbed of another 30 plus years of having you by our side. I'm angry that my children will only have four and seven years to draw on. I'm sad that you won't be 10 minutes down the road anymore, that I won't be able to see you whenever I want to, whenever my children want to. I'm mad that you worked so hard to overcome so much, to only have it all snuffed away too soon. And I know that we all need to be thankful for all the good times that we've had, but Fucking hell, this just isn't fair. Love Jen

Jennifer St John  04:39

Looking back now, there were signs, but at the time, none of it felt urgent enough to sound an alarm. It was a fall, it was some pain, it was shingles. It was all manageable and age appropriate, until it wasn't.

Jennifer St John  04:55

On Mother's Day of 2017, mum went to the hospital because she had been experiencing some shortness of breath and some pain. That winter, this must have been in and around, I think it was Christmas. Actually, I think it was them leaving the house on Christmas. She had slipped and fallen on the stairs at our place, and I remember she really jarred her rib cage, but she'd gone to the doctor and gotten some stuff for pain, and then she ended up getting shingles that winter for the first time, which was a really painful thing for her to go through, and lasted several weeks. And then a second wave came back. So there was a few things happening with her, but no major indicators of anything else other than what she was dealing with. She was actively seeking medical care. She was very involved with her doctor. And then Mother's Day, we were supposed to have a brunch at my place, and dad had called me that morning and said, Your mom had to go to the hospital last night and that they weren't going to be able to make it. Then later on that day, dad and Aunt Erin came to see us, but mom didn't. They didn't really come out and say exactly what was happening, but I could tell there was something happening. And then Mom sent us a text, I think it was a day or two later, because she wanted to tell us all the same time, and that was the only way she could.  The text was that when she was at the hospital, they had done some X rays and some imaging, and they had discovered a massive tumor in her chest cavity. And so her doctor was jumping on top of getting further tests and figuring out what this was, but even the earliest indications were that this was not good. And we learned quite quickly that this was terminal cancer. What do you guys remember about that text and this initial news? 

Kate  06:55

So for me, it was interesting, and mom felt so bad about this, but I didn't get that text with you guys. She had sent it to Carson instead. I don't know if you remember this story, but was Carson and the two of you on the group text.

Jennifer St John  07:10

 I don't remember that at all. 

Kate  07:12

Yeah, Carson, right away called me and I was at work, and I was like, What? No, it's a spam text. Like, I would absolutely, no Carson, like, this is ridiculous. And I think I reached out to probably both of you and asked, and it was, yeah, yeah, this is what's happening. It felt like somebody had just punched me in the gut, and everything left my body. It's interesting because again, talking about our relationship and how it evolved, I believed it. Whereas we've talked about in other episodes about mom's untruths about these kinds of things and just our relationship being different, right away, I believed it. I was like, Okay, what do I need to do? How can I help? Where do you need me at this time? That was my initial reaction.

Teresa  07:57

Yeah, I was dropping Jade off at school. When the text came through, I literally can picture exactly where I was in the car, pulled over to the side. She's getting out, and your absolute world falls out of the bottom. I remember we just dropped everything, and all of us headed to see her. Yeah.

Jennifer St John  08:20

Yeah. And I remember in reading some of mom's journaling through this period of time, because there isn't that much, because it happened very fast, but I guess at this point, I would have never even thought that she would fake it. She was so well past that in her recovery that thought didn't even cross my mind. But she took the news in, and I'm sure she had her own moments. Obviously she did, but I feel like she just resonated herself to the fact that this was it. It was almost like there was a calmness about her that she just moved through and she talks about in some of her journaling, the line that she used just a sec, I want to try and find it. Oh, here it is, right here she says, I can't understand what I'm feeling, and I can't feel what I understand. And it was like she was in that place of, I know I'm gonna die. I know this is huge, but she was really at peace with it all, and that's what she writes about. And I feel like that is how she moved through this period of her life, like, Okay, this is happening. She was so present in it. And obviously she was very concerned about all of us. She was also concerned about Dad, like there was stuff that financially, we had to help them with and get things in order, get things in place. But compared to how the whole rest of her life had been, she just did it all from such a place of calmness and peace. I'm sure all the mental wellness work that she had done and all the work she'd done for the last nine years prepared her for this, but it was never that mom wasn't managing. Mom was managing. Very well, and she very much aware of what was happening, and she was handling it all with such grace. 

Teresa  10:05

That's the word that resonates for me too. It wasn't chaotic. It was with grace and fascinating that for having led such chaos in her life, that is not how she presented at all. 

Jennifer St John  10:19

And I remember, Kate, you dropped everything came up, and because of your experience with the medical field, you were able to really take the medical side of things head on and get some appointments going and get some information. Do you want to walk us through that a bit Kate?

Kate  10:34

Yeah, I remember us having these conversations with mom and dad and looking at how we were going to take those steps forward from the very first appointment that we all attended. And I still vividly remember looking at that screen. I walked into that appointment thinking, Okay, it's going to be one little mass. We're going to get it removed. People survive this. It happens. You know, this is good. And then I remember we all did the 'Let's wear red shirts to champion mom' and support mom. So we showed up to this doctor's appointment in these red shirts, and I remember sitting there looking at the screen, and it looked like fireworks on her lungs, and I knew right then and there that time was very limited.  And so we just jumped into hyper drive and took care of things, and at first thought, mom would fight us on some of these things, but you have both spoken to she was very calm, still had faculties to be able to have some of these conversations that we needed to have. The one being that she signed over POA for treatment to me, and I just remember thinking, wow, I thought that was going to be a fight. So being able to support her in that way. And then I made the decision, I think it was early June, I took a leave from work, and I moved up and moved in with Jen to be able to support everybody and help everybody and have these meetings and these conversations as things were changing, like daily, rapidly.

Jennifer St John  11:59

Yeah, because I remember her being wheeled in for that appointment, and we were all wearing the red shirts. And before we went into the appointment, I remember feeling like mom's the sickest person in this room, because as they show you that image, and they're going through it, and it's almost like section by section, and just the mass was so large, it was her entire lung cavity. I remember thinking to myself, no wonder she can't breathe. I was also shocked that how did it get this big within that week or two, we were sitting there having that appointment from that Mother's Day when she went to emerge, and that's the first time she was complaining the shortness of breath. It must have grown so fast, because even in her journal, she like I wasn't really in pain. The first thing that she was kind of like, uh, was the shortness of breath. Because Mom had smoked for most of her life. When she sought treatment and stuff, she had quit and maybe went back quit, went back. That had kind of been the last nine years, but she'd always had that smoker's cough, we called it, where she was always coughing at night, and so I think her cough, it got a little bit worse. But again, she didn't think anything of it. She was like, I have a smoker's cough I always have. And then it was really that shortness of breath, that tightening of her chest, that brought her to emerge. Obviously, anybody who's gone through something like this, knows gets a little jumbled up. But at some point, we also, very quickly found it. It wasn't just in her chest. It was metastasized to the bones. They were very worried about her physically trying to deal with the state that she was in as to making her comfortable and she shouldn't be walking that much. It was just trying to make sure she didn't break a bone, because the bone cancer was already so bad as well. So yeah, Teresa, do you remember that appointment in that first couple of weeks?

Teresa  13:44

Yeah, the world stopped. I think you captured that pretty accurately. You sit in awe. It's like you're disconnected from your life in some ways, because you sit there and you think, how can that person just be, like, randomly getting a coffee? Or like, Oh, they're reading a book. How are you guys all doing this? Like the world has just come to a stop and time stands still in some ways, you know. Thank goodness for you too, because a lot of it is a blur. And I think it was us putting our minds and our hearts together and just doing what we had to do. We just rallied where one had strengths and one had weaknesses, we just drew on each other as needed and figured it out because it was also about supporting dad, whose sole goal at that point is to support mom and us just being able to try and meet both of their needs and move through this in the best way. But I think it was disbelief for me, of it's not going to be as bad as what we think it is. Things are going to be okay. And then going into that appointment and thinking, or not actually. 

Kate  14:56

For me, when walking out of that appointment, I was still like, thinking, Okay, well, how can. We prolong mom's life here. I think when it really was like real and there was no having those crazy thoughts, was when we sat down as a family, and she wanted us to tell the grandkids. And I vividly remember us sitting in Jen's living room, and I started the conversation. I remember just looking around the room, and Carson was right beside me, so my youngest, who's probably about 16 or 17 at the time, and just his visceral crying, and then the whole room, that was where it was real, like this is happening. This is not just, I don't know what to say. Have it been it was just so real.

Teresa  15:48

I feel like that was the first time I was able to let myself really feel it was in that living room as we talked to the kids, because I remember us saying, Okay, we need to tell the grandkids, but we need to do this in a coordinated way. And so Kate, you went back, and then you ended up coming back up with the boys. And I remember those few days being so hard, because we're all going back to our kids. We want to tell them all together so that they also have a support network of cousins and everyone around them, and having to act like everything was okay felt so inauthentic to me that just was not how I operate. So you really had to compartmentalize it. And I love that we did that approach for the kids, because I do think that was such a coming together and showing them that no matter what, no matter how, we'll get through things together, we created that connection and that circle of support for them that I think has really gone a long way for all of them processing through the loss of mom.

Jennifer St John  16:54

Yeah, no, I totally agree Teresa, because I think that was like week two, because it was a period of time.  We had to have a couple of appointments to even figure out what was going on, right? So it was a few weeks before we got all of the information. And I can remember those few weeks feeling like you said, the world has stopped. Nothing else matters right now. You're just as a family coming together trying to figure out, what are we dealing with? How are we going to deal with this? And once we had that, I remember it was a Thursday night, and once we had that event together as a family and were able to tell the kids, then it felt like there was a bit of not relief, because obviously there's nothing you're being relieved from. But it felt like Okay, now we're all in this together. Now we're all just going to do whatever we have to do to support mum through this, and we're all going to work together. And the other piece to this is, two weeks after mom was diagnosed, our aunt Terry was diagnosed, and this was our aunt who lived in Orillia, who was very close to us, who was very close to mom. They were 16 months apart, and that now was just reverberating throughout the family and throughout everybody who knew them.  We were now literally meeting at RVH with them for appointments. And I think that drew us even closer together as an extended family as well in this area.  Our Aunt Erin, our Aunt Tara, our Aunt Lorna, it was just literally like a compound feeling of everyone's coming together, everyone's doing whatever they can, everyone's processing their grief. But we did it together, and we did it collectively. Like the fact that these two sisters, these two aunts, these two mothers, whatever your relationship was to them, for them to be diagnosed with terminal cancer in two weeks of each other was huge. 

Kate  18:39

 Yeah.  I remember one of our cousins, Corey, being a tremendous support and a tremendous help. The one thing that really resonates with me, and every once in a while, I'll go back and listen, is that beautiful song after she learned about both mom and Aunt Terry, and it was her way to process her grief, and it was a song that was just beautiful and just amazing, and it gave us strength during that time. It's one thing for me that I really held on to and just really appreciated. 

Corie (singing)  19:09

May the angels protect you, trouble, neglect you in Heaven, accept you when it's time to go home.

Jennifer St John  19:18

I was the one who called Cor. We were at the hospital, I think we were dealing with yet another appointment. It was at that point where mom was comfortable, like we can start telling people.

Kate  19:30

Something that you spoke to earlier was the anger of we thought we had 20 more years, like I look to friends and other family members around us that had their parents into their 80s, early 90s, and that year prior to mom getting sick, I had those thoughts. I thought, Oh, this is awesome. We're gonna have 30 years of this beautiful life that we've finally created. And I was so devastated that was being taken away and that was being robbed really.

Jennifer St John  19:59

Yeah, I felt that. Yeah, a lot. I mean, we're talking about two women who were, like, 61 and 62 years old. You never know when you're gonna go but it just was not expected. We also had to shift into caregiver mode so fast. And there was so much going on for Aunt Terry's family and our family and together, I had to be kind of pushed down a bit, because then you just had to deal with what you had to deal with. I can remember like friends of mine coming to the funeral, and one friend of ours, his kids don't really have grandparents in their lives. They're alive, but there's not a great relationship. And I remember he was just so angry, because here she is doing everything she can to be in her grandkids lives. They adore her. It's a healthy relationship. He'd been in my life for like, 30 years, so he knew a bit about everything she'd been through. And he was just like, I don't understand. Why is it that she's taken and then other people who aren't doing this and don't have that are gonna get another 20 or 30 years. It was interesting how it wasn't even just us feeling it. It was this ripple effect of people feeling this loss too soon.  You're always left thinking, why now? Why this? Why? Like, obviously, that's a part of your processing of your grief. But even people who weren't in my mom's life on a regular basis for coming up to me and saying the same thing, it was pretty amazing. What I remember too is that after this initial couple of weeks, we did just fall into caregiver role. So because mom's demise happened quickly, so there was the palliative radiation that they were doing, but really it was for pain, but it was also extension of life. But really, I think that only maybe extend her life a few weeks. It wasn't something that was extremely helpful, but I do remember that Teresa's you were on a leave at this point as well. I believe Kate, you were already on a leave. And our aunts were there, and we literally just Kate came up with the schedule and got to the point where dad was okay to do the nights, but then very quickly, dad couldn't do the nights. And we were also trying to take this weight off of dad's shoulders so that he could just be mom's husband and not be mom's caregiver. Because I remember he even he hurt his back putting the wheelchair in the back of the car really early on in this. And so we were just like, Dad, we will take all this off of you, and you just be her partner right now. And so we were very quickly doing shifts during the day, shifts during the evening. Do you guys want to speak to that period of time? 

Teresa  22:28

I remember it happening so quickly, and being a bit shell shocked, and having to go into that mode of okay, what needs to get done? Because it was literally two months and 10 days from when mom was a healthy individual who thought she was healthy to when she passed. We're moving a hospital bed into their living room, and she's using a walker, which very quickly progressed to having to be with the wheelchair and needing oxygen, having the pump installed for pain management, and we're at the hospital every day with her, and you're right. We had to find our role in that, because you can burn out.  You're emotional, you're going through anticipatory grief. We also have the situation happening with Aunt Terry at the same time, so we're trying to be supportive to other members of our family as well. And it just happened way quicker than I thought it was going to.

Jennifer St John  23:22

And our kids, not only are we doing what we're doing for our mom, but we also are having to manage the anticipatory grief of our children as well.

Teresa  23:32

Yeah, yeah, and life moving forward at the same time, because again, I'm living in Midland, but I'm staying in Barrie with you guys most of the time, so it's leaning on others, because the kids still have to go to school and get to their activities and things like that, but then they're feeling the effect of all of this, because we now have extended family cycling through and playing those supportive roles for all of us as well. And it was a lot, it was a lot

Jennifer St John  24:02

Kate?

Kate  24:03

For me, some of what I remember. And I mean, this is just a natural part of things, but during the initial stages, mom had to be weaned off most of her mental health meds, and that created a different mom.  A mom that I remembered from decades past. And it took everything, I'm just going to speak from my experience, it took everything I had to keep remembering that, because there were moments where she was really nasty, and it was because she's going through this. She's in a lot of pain. She doesn't have her mood stabilizers anymore, and as the person that she signed over the authority of the treatment decision making, I was getting blamed a lot. I remember it being a very difficult time that thank God we had each other, thank God we had aunt Tara, Aunt Erin and Aunt Lorna were there and were supportive at the house, helping with meals and things, but aunt Tara was right in the thick of it with us, of being there with mom and supporting mom. And I just remember those being some really trying times. Yeah, but also some funny times, because there were some moments where I remember for at this point, this is before we got the PSW and staying overnight. We'll talk about that story, because there's a funny story there. But I'm in the bed. 

Jennifer St John  25:11

That only happened one time.

Kate  25:13

Yeah, I know, but I was like, in the bedroom, giving mom and dad some privacy. And so I'm sitting there, I'm watching TV in the bedroom, and I hear the oxygen on, and then all of a sudden I smell pot. Just like, and so I go running out, and I look at the both of them, I said, turn the oxygen off. I was just like. So there were some funny moments through this period that really helped to just give you a bit of a breath of relief, even if it was seconds or moments, and then sharing it with everybody else on text or over the phone. Of you'll never believe what just happened, and it just gave us a little bit of humor and relief during the most stressful and trying time. And so I still kind of smile and laugh about them during a time that was very difficult and challenging. 

Jennifer St John  26:00

Well, remember the Tour de France?

Teresa  26:03

Yes, I was just gonna say, I remember there was some big race, and she was convinced that me, I think at Tara's husband, Darren, maybe somebody else, like, she was convinced that we were in the race. And so she'd be having conversations, and again, that was compliments of the hydromorphone, but she was convinced that we were in it. I was like, well, thank you. Like, yeah, yeah, I could be in that. It was just so interesting, because you're having these conversations where it doesn't make sense to correct her because, you know, really starting to lose her faculty. So you're just rolling with it, and you're like, what's today's conversation gonna be?

Jennifer St John  26:37

Yeah, no, I know. And I remember when we had to start to sleep overnight. And I mean, we weren't really sleeping because she wasn't sleeping. She just could not get her system to calm down enough by that point. Like, even though it's like hydromulfurs really high and she's really sick, she's also trying to hang on to whatever she can hang on to. It took a lot to get her in that wheelchair. The Doctor literally had to say to her, like, the big bone, is it femer between your hip and your knee, the largest bone I remember, they were like, this is such a hot spot for the bone cancer. Literally, this is going to snap. And we were just like, Mom, you don't want to be dealing with a compound leg fracture on top of dealing with cancer. And so it took a lot to get her sometimes to like, okay, all right, fine. I'll use the wheelchair, but I remember using the bathroom. She refused. She refused to use the commode. It was Nope, I am going in a wheelchair, and I'm going down the hall. I'm using the bathroom and, like, it would take four of us, right? Like, okay, Mom, yeah, I agree, Kate, there has to be levity. There has to be moments of laughter and joy and fun, even during the really shitty times. There has to be.

Kate  27:51

I remember calling her palliative doctor and saying, okay, she's not sleeping. And then he went up the prescription and and then I remember she had the adverse effect it made her like hyper and manic. 

Jennifer St John  28:03

Yup.

Kate  28:03

And I remember calling him the next morning and explaining it, and him saying, I gave her horse tranquilizer levels. How is this possible? And I said, I told you before that our mother has had addiction, and I said, this is just not working. You've got to come up with something different. He said, I have never, ever experienced this. And I said, Well, welcome to Marnie. That night before is when we had that PSW for the first night, and I was staying overnight because she didn't want this person to be alone, and I had to sleep in the bed beside her. And I remember laying there trying to get a little bit of sleep, psst, psst, Kate, and it would be, oh, yeah, hey, there's somebody on the other side of me here. You need to get rid of them. Pick them out. You know, you're trying not to laugh as you're trying to recognize that she was paranoid at the moment, and she was just very unsettled. And I remember the PSW being, I'm okay, I've got this. This is normal. I said, Oh, I know. I said, I'm just trying not to hysterically laugh at this point. And then I just almost be asleep, and it would be, psst, psst, Kate, hey, it was like you were dealing with a little toddler that couldn't fall asleep. 

Jennifer St John  29:09

Oh yeah. 

Kate  29:10

I just remember thinking, oh my goodness, we we've got to get some changes happening here, because everybody needs to sleep. None of us were sleeping. 

Jennifer St John  29:19

I remember that period, because we were all exhausted. You're emotionally depleted, but now physically, because it was like you said, Teresa's those nine weeks. There was only one week in hospice, so the rest of it was all us, all at the apartment, and I can remember sleeping by her bed. She didn't want you far away, but like she would not sleep, she would not go to sleep. Oh, Mylanta. So obviously, I know this is like a no brainer, but do you guys remember supporting your kids through this? Because, I mean, that's a lot for them to process, and especially like it was happening times two, because of Aunt Terry, it was a lot all of a sudden.

Teresa  30:02

I remember going back and forth between Midland and Barrie and trying to do that dance of still be present for the kids, but then be present for for my role with mom too. And so it felt like pretty quickly, we kind of settled into shifts, per se, not to make it business like but I remember that whiteboard we had of everything was at the ready. Kate had all of her doctors and their role and how to reach them, and her meds, and when was the last time we gave her meds like it brought me back to the days I used to work in group homes where you're just like, okay, shift change. So who's doing? What? What's today's appointment? What are the appointments? Sorry, you know, who's doing what? Like, it was very much that, and it had to be, and yet you're trying to love and support her through this. And dad, because dad is sad he's losing his partner. But that board, it kept us so organized as we needed to be. And then we would have consults with Aunt Tara about the medical side, because she being a nurse, she knows all of this, so she was able to help educate us about what was going on for mom and what to expect and all of that. So yeah, it was hard to have one foot at home, but one foot with mom and also navigating through the grief of your children at the same time as you're trying to deal with your own grief, but I think you end up putting your kiddos and their grief journey first, and I feel like I did most of dealing with my grief after we lost mom and Aunt Terry, because I just had to really prioritize the kids getting through things because they still wanted to visit mom. But mom, like you said, Kate was in a very different place, even mentally and emotionally, let alone the physical, like mom was losing weight rapidly, not really eating. So that was tough, because those aren't the visuals you want your kids to be left with when they think of grandma.

Jennifer St John  31:54

Yeah, it's hard because it's like, this is the reality of what you're gonna go through and somebody passes away. But it's that fine balance of how much reality do you show them versus being able to preserve their memories? Yeah,

Teresa  32:11

I took pictures because I remember it being so important. But when mom was at hospice and we wheeled her bed outside because of those five days, it was the one nice day I remember, and I remember Lawson and Nora crawling up on the bed with her, and she was like quasi reading a story with them. I stood back, and I thought, this is just such a blessing that she gets to be outdoors. She's with her grandkids, and she's just having a moment, and we're creating a memory here. And I mean, we had lost her within 48 hours of that.  It does my heart a world of good to know that we were all there supporting her and seeing her at hospice, and she got some of those nice moments, even with everything that her body was going through.

Mom/Nora  32:59

Okay, you want me to help? He's hiding under ruin. It Hot ruins.

Mom/Nora  33:04

Yeah, in there.

Mom/Nora  33:09

Wow. He's just happy in

Mom/Nora  33:12

the ruins. He's just helping, right? 

Jennifer St John  33:13

The demise was pretty fast, and I can remember I was the only daughter who was at the last radiation appointment, and this point you're getting to know everybody right. You've been there every day for the last two months. And I can remember the nurse looking at me, and she was said, so everything's ready at home. And I was like, yep. At that point, she had visited the hospice. But I think the thought was still that she wanted to pass at home. And like everybody knew, medically, this is it. This is happening. And I think at that point we were trying to entertain the idea of hospice, because it's a lot to go through. And I think at that point too, we also wanted to just be daughters. We wanted to have the chance to step back and just be there as a daughter instead of a caregiver. Do you guys remember her opening up to hospice? I don't remember that specifically.

Teresa  34:13

I remember Jen, you and I had gone to see it. We left RVH, and mum went in a different vehicle, and you and I went to the hospice to do a tour. And I know for sure, for me, that we were looking at each other like, oh, this needs to happen. Because I didn't know much about hospice before that at all. So you go into this beautiful place that's just such a peace and calm, and I remember as just being like, 100% this needs to happen. This is the next step for her, because of also the staff there that could help. And we, like you, said, wanted to come out of that caregiver role and have some of those final moments just feeling mom and daughters, but because mom was resistant to it, I don't remember what those conversations were, leaving there and going back and. Able to convince mom of it. I don't know, Kate, do you remember?

Kate  35:04

Well, you guys went and did that tour. I remember having that first real conversation with her. We had kind of touched on it. The appointments would touch on it, but I just had to get really real with her and just say, Mom, we can't do this anymore. We want to be with you. We want to support you, but I know you really wanted to pass at home, but I don't think we can do this, and it's getting to the point where we can't manage this on our own, and we need help. And she was angry. She did not like that conversation at first. I do believe Dad had some conversations with her, just them, one on one, that I really think helped her move past her first initial reaction and then just understand. I remember at that point when that happened, us sitting in their living room, mom, dad and us, and we were like, kind of on the floor and right there with mom and hearing all of us together, we had that conversation where each one of us said some things and how we were feeling and how we wanted to support her and how we wanted to be, there a lot of emotion, a lot of crying from everybody in that room, the five of us and we as a family, came to the decision that she was ready for us to call, and it happened within 24 hours. I think I remember of her saying yes and making that call and just making it happen before she could change her mind. 

Jennifer St John  36:25

Yeah, I remember we got her to see it, and so her seeing it, she had the same reaction that we had Teresa, right? It was like, You don't know anything about it, because most times you don't have to know anything about it, but then when you do have to know about it, you figure it out. And so I think she had the same reaction of, oh, wow, because part of it too was that mom didn't want other people in her apartment. She didn't want the extra help, and we were getting to that point where we needed that extra help to keep her at home, and that's what she didn't want. And so we were kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place of, how do we do this? Then I remember being really nervous. We had that black box of medication. And I don't know I might field has nothing to do with science and medication. So I'm just like, what do we do? How do we know in that last 24 hours or 48 hours that we're at this point? We're at that point? Like, my heart goes out to any family who has to deal with that, because there's so much pressure and stress, because the last thing you want your loved one to be in is in pain.

Teresa  37:23

And this is the thing. So we're going through grief, and we're trying to help her, and we're doing all the things that we're doing, but she'd come so far and wasn't in the throes of her addictions that she was very worried about medication. I remember as her medication levels had to go up to manage the pain that she was in. I remember her talking about being worried about getting addicted to the medication. It was like she didn't want to slide back there, because she had this mindset of, no, I'm focusing on wellness. I'm not going to use substances. When she was well, and then found out she was sick, she was still very much in that mindset of leading a healthy lifestyle and being very committed to that, for herself, for us, for her grandkids, and so I remembered very real conversations about but that doesn't matter, Mom, there's no judgment here. You shouldn't be in pain. This is not about whether you're going to be taking so much of this that you're going to get addicted to it. We're in a different phase now, but I know that she didn't want us to see her wanting the medication. And so that's hard because, like, we were still dealing with the storyline of addiction and all that comes with that, even in the midst of this, oh my gosh, we're losing her, and yet she doesn't want to slip down that slippery slope again with substances, and yet you're like you are in such pain right now you need to just allow this. The doctor's giving it to you for a reason. It doesn't matter if your body becomes addicted to this. We're beyond that. Now. That was a tough conversation.

Jennifer St John  38:59

Yup.  what I remember is her not wanting to lose herself in the medication. She knew because she had lost family members before this. She knew what it was like at the end. She was worried about that period of time, yep. So then we get her into hospice. But I remember, Kate, you had to do a lot to get her into hospice. Because I remember our kind of community worker just didn't see the markers. Like, literally, was like, I don't think she's gonna get passed to go in. And I remember, like, you had to really advocate for her. It ended up that I think our was it the oncologist. Her head oncologist was on holidays, so then I think the person who we were given during that holiday period ended up being like the director of the hospice, or wasn't there some sort of connection there? 

Kate  39:52

So yeah, so at that time we were when mom was at home, she went into palliative care at home, and so we had a palliative care doctor. And that's the doctor that we worked with, that I worked with specifically. So yes, the care partners didn't think that she was ready or at the point of needing hospice, but I advocated with the palliative doctor to say how we couldn't care anymore. She wasn't doing well, you know, and we needed her to be in a facility that could provide the intensity of care that she required. So then she was quickly admitted. 

Kate  40:24

Yeah, because I remember that woman, that nurse, telling us, if she doesn't pass in 30 days, she's gonna have to come back home. We're just like, that's not gonna happen. But okay.

Teresa  40:36

She was hallucinating. Remember, she was like, having visions of things. She was pulling out her pump. I remember one time she pulled out her pump, and it was a big deal for us to then try and get someone to come back in order to put it back in, because we knew she was going to be in a good way if she wasn't getting that pain medication. And it was trying to keep her hands off of the pump spot, so that she couldn't continually pull it out. So it was becoming really hard to manage at home, and she was resistant, yeah. 

Jennifer St John  41:02

And it was like a safety risk, right? Because I think that we were afraid she was going to try and get out of bed. All of that was started to kind of happen. And so that helped the case. When Kate was like, this needs to happen now, yeah, so we organized the ambulance ride. It's not really ambulance with the term transfer patient transfer ride. And I remember even that when they were wheeling her out of the hallway, that being so emotional, because I was like, this is the last time she's gonna be here. Even at that point, the hallucinations and the drugs, they just wanted her to keep her hands in and she just couldn't trying to get her to just settle, was really difficult. It was really difficult, yep.

Kate  41:41

Yeah, and that's what happened when she got into palliative care. I remember the doctor's name to this day, came and spoke with me and took me into a separate room and talked about, we're going to start to up the medication for her comfort, so that she can relax. And it was all done intravenously, so it was much easier once the care was handed over, and she was able to be more relaxed and actually have a little bit of functioning in those last couple of days, because she was at a level that was sustainable. 

Jennifer St John  42:10

Yeah, I can remember that. I can remember getting to hospice and finally resting. It wasn't normal rest, but for her, it was a really big deal. And for us, I can remember us feeling like, okay, she's finally settling now, because it had been weeks by this point of us not being able to get her to settle. And I remember too in hospice, she wanted to get outside, and she wanted to be able to have a bath. And she got both of those things in the last few days before she passed away, which afterwards, I was just so happy for her to have and I can remember we were in the room with her when she had the bath and the look on her face when her body was submerged into the bath water, and it was just like, oh, so yeah, the hospice experience was just phenomenal. And we had never had experience with hospice before because there wasn't a reason for us to but I recommend it to anybody who's dealing with a loved one who's passing. It was just so unbelievable. I felt like we were looked after as well. It wasn't just that mom was being looked after, the family was being looked after. They were looking at everybody who was going through this experience. So it was pretty amazing.

Teresa  43:21

Well, and that day outdoors, if you think about it, for all of us, Mom and Dad were in an apartment that didn't even have a balcony. The only time we saw the outdoors when the sun was up was transporting her to and from the hospital like literally. So we were all in this little cave of an apartment and not getting fresh air. So to have that full day outside, I remember that day she got outside and it was sunny, and there was birds, and you felt, you know what? These are the things that matter to her at this time, and how beautiful it was that she got those blessings before she passed. 

Jennifer St John  43:59

And then on that Saturday, they upped the meds, and she basically slept that whole day, and then she woke was it the Saturday? Yeah, the Saturday.

Teresa  44:12

I remember I did the last unquote shift with her, like I did the sleepover part, and even with all of that meds, and it is unbelievable to me how tiny of a body she was at that point, and the amount of meds, and yet she's still just going strong. And I remember still that night multiple times because I'm sleeping on the trundle bed beside her bed, and T I need my water bottle. T I need some more water. I'm like, Mom, I really think you're okay, but remember, we gotta try and sleep now, like, it's that parentification, right? Remember, like we should try and sleep now, like, okay, yeah, you can have one more sip. But then, remember, we talked about, you know, we should and, oh my goodness. And it was, I think, like through that night, because then one of the times that, you know, she would have passed the water bottle back, oh. Okay, yeah, okay, I'll sleep now, okay, and then she she did go to sleep, and she didn't wake up.

Jennifer St John  45:07

Yup, yeah, so that day, that last 24 hours, we knew they were telling us. So then whatever extended family weren't already there, everybody came, and I think there were probably over 20 of us, and everybody just kind of took over the place. Aunt Terry's there also wasn't she on an IV bag. I remember her needing to get, like, these, like, it was just crazy.  Aunt Terry ended up surviving from May till, like, literally, the day after her birthday is when she passed away, which was in the fall. So she lived for several more months than mom did, but still was on a slow decline the whole time. So yeah, it was so surreal being there as a family gathering around, supporting mom, supporting each other. And you know this is going to happen again really soon. Aunt Terry's grieving her sister, knowing she's gonna die. Mom passes away, wasn't like around 1230 in the morning or something like that on Sunday night? Wasn't it Sunday to Monday?

Teresa  46:11

I remember Jen, you and I had taken leave from the room finally and gone to lay down. And I remember we were both laying in recliners in the little library, and Aunt Tara came to the room and said, Girls, you should come now. So you and I get up again. We've just fallen asleep, so we're like, folding our blankets and stuff and trying to get the room back to and she came back, and I remember she was like, No, you need to come now. And aunt Lorna was in the room. 

Jennifer St John  46:36

And yeah, that was like, last breaths. I know Kate had been there the whole time. Kate didn't leave. But obviously, when somebody is that ill, you're sad to lose them, but the relief of the fact that mom's not in pain anymore is a huge part of what everybody was feeling. The hospice experience just extended, how well they dealt with after her passing, and all the steps that we had to take because we had to go to the funeral home, we had to arrange for all these things, and her body had to be transferred. They'll never forget the walkout that they do. So when they're moving her body, and all the staff come out, and her body is taken by the funeral home. And I really look back at that period of time, and I felt there was that extra wrap around us of support and care through the hospice experience of where she was. 

Kate  47:27

I remember I didn't want her to be alone, so I didn't leave. I stayed and stayed in in the room with her, and it was just so amazing how they kept coming in and checking on me and making sure I was okay. Like you, Jen, I recommend hospice for any family that goes through this, because the compassion and the love and the understanding and the care that they give, not only to the individual going through it, but to the family surrounding the individual is just absolutely outstanding. 

Jennifer St John  47:54

Yep, yeah, it really is. 

Teresa  47:56

And the aftercare I got services there at hospice, both individual and group counseling afterwards to address my grief, and I can't speak highly enough of it. It was incredible. 

Jennifer St John  48:11

And then what was it? Two weeks later, we had mom's celebration of life, I think? I had lots of people come up to me after that, and they were like, wow. I think we really honored mom in a great way, and we're able to really tell her story and share all the parts of her and celebrate who she was. It was a really nice way to have everybody be able to come together and say goodbye, yep. So obviously this is a lot for us to go from intense two months of caregiving and everything to then Kate's now going back to Kingston and Theresa's going back to Midland and everybody's dispersing. I mean, yes, Aunt Terry was ill, but aunt Terry wasn't at this stage at all. And so what do you guys remember that transition being going back home?

Kate  49:03

For me, I was, like, numb. We talked about earlier, Theresa, kind of mentioning how she was able to kind of go back and forth between home and Barrie and help support.  This whole time I moved to Barrie, really, and did not go home, and was just connecting with my family over phone, and just feeling a little bit of guilt about that, because my kids were a bit older, but they were still young adults and needing support and just connection. And I just remember coming back and just feeling so numb, but also in the same mindset, going, Okay, now I gotta shift gears and now be here to support my family through this loss, because they needed that support at that time. So it was like again, just shifting myself to the side, but I had enough to understand that I still needed time off. So I took the month of August off from work to be able to do just that, to be able to start to work my way through my grief, support my family through their grief, before having to return to work. So that was very important for me to do that and take that time.

Jennifer St John  50:05

And Teresa?

Teresa  50:06

I mean, I think there's a feeling of emptiness, because there have been such connectedness for all of us, with sisters and extended family and everything to get through all of this, that you parachute back into your own life without all of that connection, and that feels very different. I had some different struggles to deal with. I wasn't able to take long of a leave, unfortunately, just financially, had some struggles with coverage for finances from work and really mentally having to get around the fact that my work is in adoption. I talk about parenting and moms and dads and relationships, and that's what I do all day every day. It's not a completely different job that I can just kind of compartmentalize my grief and not think about, not talk about, when I go back to work, I have to be like, plugged in. I'm not. There's no going through the motions in my job, and I really struggled with getting my mindset right enough that I could talk about moms and be around moms. The therapy helped. And I remember having this little book that my therapist from hospice had recommended, and it was from their library there, and it was this, like tiny little pocket book, and it traveled around in my car with me when I went back to work. And it was giving yourself those 10 minutes at a time in between appointments, in between meetings, on your lunch break, and just being okay with still sitting in your grief and then having other moments that aren't focused on your grief, they were just like these daily meditations focused on grief. It reminded me of those like, 'don't sweat the small stuff' books. I love that counselor for what she gave me, which was the permission to still be grieving, even though I had to get back to life stuff as well for my kids and for myself and all of that. But yeah, I would say that was probably fairly challenging, trying to reconcile those two things at the same time and be okay enough I can't go and work with a family and be in tears because I've lost my parent because I'm trying to assess if they've resolved their losses and they are appropriate to move forward in the adoption process and stuff. So I had to get myself right, and it was hard to do that simultaneously.

Jennifer St John  52:27

Yeah, absolutely. Because even Kate getting a month like, it's great that you had the month, but a month isn't anything. This is a big process. There's no real timeline for grief, because you're always going to be living your life without that person. There's always going to be a sense of grief for not having them in your life. 

Teresa  52:43

And it's invisible. It's the kind of thing where you can seem like things are fine, and you don't know what sets off that moment. It's like it comes in waves. So people are like, Oh, she's fine, she's good. And really, you're like, not so good. So it's all in how you have to give yourself the space and permission to be able to do that. 

Jennifer St John  53:04

Yeah, I think that's a really big, big part of it is allowing yourself to have the space and permission, because it does come in waves. And there are days or hours or minutes that are going to be really, really, really difficult, and it feels like it comes out of nowhere. And over time, there's more space between those moments, but they still come. My God, they still come now - it's been eight years. I definitely had the time and the space, but for me, I also had dad eight minutes down the road and helping him deal with his grief. And he would come to the house three times a day. He would just kind of okay, come for a coffee, and then, all right, I'm gonna go, okay, dad, and then he'd show up again in the afternoon, and oh, hey dad, and we go for a walk, or he'd do whatever we're doing with the kids, or if we were doing stuff around the house, and we'd come for dinners. And he even did days with Nora sometimes, which, after mom passed, he retired. Well, when mom got sick, he basically took the leave and then just didn't go back to work and kicked into his retirement. And so he was around a lot more too, because he would be gone every week down to Toronto for work and come back on the weekends. So then I could remember him after a few days, which was, you know, very different than looking after Nora for a few days. But yeah, I can remember that period of time just being devastated for losing her and getting used to life without her really trying to support dad, and then also supporting Madeleine and Brendan and Ryan and Uncle Pat and Aunt Terry, and dealing with now another family member, very physically close to us and obviously very emotionally close to us, who is about to go through the same thing that we had just gone through. So as a family that was it was a lot, I think everybody was still dealing with mom's death, but the anticipatory ness of knowing that we're about to deal with Aunt Terry's death as well.

Kate  55:01

That first Thanksgiving after mom passed and before aunt Terry passed, we all went to Aunt Tara's, and I just remember all being there together and just experiencing the first holiday without mom, also everybody knowing the end is near for Aunt Terry, because of what we learned with mom's progression, what we saw in aunt Terry at that time, and I still vividly have this memory of Aunt her and Darren had all the tables outside. We had dinner outside because we had so many of us there from the family and the extended family, and we took up pretty much the whole yard and the long line of tables and chairs and just being together and having each other at that time, as we had throughout the whole process with mom. And I just remember feeling an amazing feeling of comfort from that experience, and I still remember it to this day, and it was the last time I got to see Aunt Terry, and I knew it was my time to say goodbye. And I just remember having that time with her. 

Jennifer St John  56:00

Yeah, yeah, because I feel like, like she was, we're close to all of our aunts, but aunt Terry was, like, you have a unique connection with all of them, but especially because, like, Teresa and I, like, like they were the ones who pulled us out, like we lived with them, and even through the estrangement with mom, not all the family were on our side, so to speak, of how we were dealing with that period of time. And I remember that she was a big support through that too. She just didn't judge. 

Kate  56:32

She supported you guys, and she supported mom right through both 

Jennifer St John  56:35

Exactly. 

Kate  56:36

Was able to support both of you in where you were in that journey. She was very good at doing that in a non judgmental way, like, you say, yeah.

Jennifer St John  56:44

Yeah, yeah. Well,

Teresa  56:45

And she was geographically close too. Like, at least for me, she's in the same city, and so she was physically there a lot more too, right? Yeah, having those family dinners, those get togethers, running into her in the grocery store. There was just more opportunity for engagement.

Jennifer St John  57:00

Yeah. And even before this, we grew up with our cousins, her children, right? So we were very close to them. Going through this all together just brought us even closer together, is what I felt. But yeah, I I was there when Aunt Terry passed away.  Basically, she had made her way out west, and it was a big deal. It was a medical flight. She had to have oxygen. It was a lot, but this is what she wanted. She wanted to go out west. Two of her children lived out west at this time, and she had a family out west that she was close to, and so she wanted this before she was going to go. I remember it was so interesting, because they were both going through at the same time. They both dealt with it very differently. Aunt Terry's, this is just my opinion or my impression, but what I felt was that she was so positive that she was going to fight this, and that's how she got through it. She was always talking about the future. So I can remember when, because obviously she was very ill. So she did get out there, she did get some visiting in, but she was then in hospital, and she called me, and Uncle Pat was in the room with her, and I'm sure other people too, and she's talking to me about how when she gets back, this is what's going to happen. This is what we're going to do. And obviously I'd been through this with mom. I knew none of this was going to happen. I knew that she was just talking and wanted to connect, and you just play along. And I can remember then, like, 40 minutes later, getting a call from Uncle Pat, and now he's downstairs the hospital, at a car and really telling me what's happening now, because he didn't do it in front of her, and he obviously was very upset, and he's just like, Jen, you know everything she just said isn't gonna happen. I'm like, Yeah, I know. So then aunt Tara and I hopped on a plane and flew out there, and it was like a red eye, and we drove from Victoria up to Nanaimo, which is where she was staying, and picked up some family on the way. I remember one of the funny things happening, because I'd been out west numerous times in the last few years, and so I, like, kind of knew where we're going, and it was literally one o'clock in the morning, nobody's on the road, and at her put it into Waze, or whatever, and like, she was taking me to the ferry because that was the fastest route. I'm like, we can't drive the car across the water.  I'm pretty sure we're not going the right way. So anyways, we were still able to laugh and all of this, but as soon as she knew aunt Tara and I were in the room, she just reacted. And I remember she lunged up and she grabbed my arm because I was at the end of the bed, and she pulled me towards her, and Aunt Tara was right at her head, and that was kind of the last moment we had with her before then the medication was titrated up, and she passed away the next morning. It was a lot losing two family members in a short period of time. I can remember people were just like, oh my gosh, that's really heavy. That's a lot for your family to go through. 

Teresa  59:55

Yeah, I remember, I I think my flight was due to get there the day after she. Ended up passing. And you're right. You're still in such crisis level inside, emotionally, and just where you're at with, oh my gosh, we just lost mom. And like, How is this possible? You're kind of in disbelief, this can't actually be happening. Yet. You're not you know that it's happening. You're asking yourself, why? And yet, that's not rational, but you're just like, why so much all at once? And feeling for our aunts that were left, that just lost two of their sisters, like, I look at what we have, and it's just that is a profound loss. It's hard to explain that level of loss.

Jennifer St John  1:00:38

Just to see your family getting smaller and smaller and smaller too, especially when it's people that you're really close to. So yeah, it was a lot. I remember that Christmas we moved where the Christmas tree was in the house, because we used to always have it in the front room, remember, and we moved it into the back of the house in the dining room. And I remember saying to Murray, like, I can't I couldn't have anything the same anymore. It was like I had to make some changes to it just for it to feel different. Yep, I remember that.

Teresa  1:01:10

I think you're both in the same mindset that becomes that new benchmark. There's life before we lost mom, and now life after. 

Jennifer St John  1:01:23

This was the most personal episode that we've shared, and in many ways the hardest to record. It's one thing to talk about the past, about childhood and of trauma and about what shaped us, but it's another thing entirely to talk about the end, when that person is no longer here, and when all you have left is the memory of who they became and who they were trying to be, and you have the grief of all the years you thought you'd have together. This episode marks the end of season, one of 'The Shadows We Cast', and it's been quite the season. We began this journey by telling the story of our mom, not just the parts that were painful, but the parts that were brave, that were complicated and hilarious and messy and deeply human.  We talked about what it was like to grow up in the shadow of untreated mental illness and addiction, about survival mode and estrangement, and about the boundaries we had to set in order to protect ourselves, and the grief that came with those boundaries. But we also share the years of reconnection, of watching our mom do the really hard thing, of recovery and healing, of building something new, even late in the game, and of remembering that it's never too late to repair. And in this final chapter, we walked with her to the end and we said goodbye. And as we said in the beginning of this episode, it's not just a goodbye, it's a beginning too. It's because loss doesn't have an end story. It just changes in shape and the love that we carry forward. That's the legacy, and that's what we're holding on to. 

Jennifer St John  1:02:56

To everyone who has listened and sent messages and connected and shared their own stories, or simply held us in their hearts along the way - Thank you. You've reminded us that there's power in saying the quiet parts out loud, that vulnerability, when held with care and compassion, becomes connection and that healing doesn't have to be solitary. To my sisters, Kate and Teresa, thank you for walking back into these memories and places with me, for telling the truth, for being honest, for crying and for laughing in equal measure. I couldn't have done this without you. And to our listeners, I don't know exactly what season two will look like, yet we'll continue on in the same tone, in the same vein, but I do know this that there are more stories to tell, and I know this because of the connections that have been made and the comments that have been made, and the people who have told me that this means a lot to them. So there are more shadows to explore and more light to find. For now, we're going to take a break. We're going to rest and breathe and write. Please stay connected. We'll continue with the newsletter, and obviously you can connect through online spaces, or you could just shoot me off an email. This isn't just a podcast, it's a conversation, and hopefully it's just gotten started.

Jennifer St John  1:04:14

Before we go. I wanted to invite you to join our create calm mental health movement. This is a space for sharing the creative ways that you care for your nervous system and create stillness in your day, which I think is very important. Whether it's writing or it's moving or it's being creative in however, which way you want to be creative, or if it's just standing still and taking a breath. Tag us using the hashtag. Create calm mental health so that we can build a collective library of tools that will help everyone. If this episode resonated with you, as I said, I'd love to hear from you. You can go to the website, Jen st john.ca that's J E N, N, S, T, J, O, H n.ca. To connect there. And if you'd like to support the podcast and help these conversations reach more people, then please consider subscribing, sharing the episode or leaving a review, as you know, it really does make a difference. 

Jennifer St John  1:05:02

Now, if something difficult came up while you were listening, you know you don't have to sit with it alone. In Canada, you can call or text 988 anytime for free confidential mental health support. You can also text 686868 to connect with a trained volunteer through the CMHA Crisis Text Line.  In the US, the 988, suicide and crisis lifeline is available 24/7 by call or text for anyone in emotional distress, not just in crisis. And for our listeners in Australia, you can call Lifeline at 13, 11, 14, anytime, day or night, for free and confidential crisis support.

Jennifer St John  1:05:39

So as we close this first season. I just wanted to say one last thing, this work has been very meaningful, and sharing these stories, my own, my family's, and those of our guests have been a reminder that even the hardest truths can create connection when we're brave enough to speak them out loud. And if you've been walking alongside us this season, whether from episode one or just recently, thank you. Your presence has mattered, and it also helps to keep the conversation around mental health active. We'll be back soon with more stories, but until then, I hope you keep writing your own story with gentleness, with courage and with grace for all the parts that still feel unfinished. Season two is coming soon, but for now, Rest well. Stay connected and keep finding your way forward. Talk soon.