Self-Advocacy, Burnout and Resilience in Pharmacy Residency

In this episode of Success in Doses, I sit down with Dr. Kate Cozart, also known as The Resilient PharmD, for a powerful conversation about self-advocacy, burnout, imposter phenomenon, vulnerability and learner well-being in pharmacy training.

Kate shares her own experience as a pharmacy student who looked successful on the outside while privately navigating major personal challenges. Together, we discuss why authenticity matters, how imposter thoughts show up in students and residents, and why asking for support is not a weakness.

This episode is especially for pharmacy students, APPE students, residents, preceptors and new practitioners who are trying to succeed without losing themselves in the process.

We talk about growth mindset, psychological safety, burnout warning signs, boundaries, self-compassion, and why staying connected to what matters is essential for long-term success in pharmacy.

Connect with Kate at https://www.theresilientpharmd.com/ 

Thank you for supporting the show. Follow @successindosespod

career advancement, negotiation skills, pharmacists, personal development, confidence, asking for what you want, mindset shifts, professional growth, self-advocacy, boldness

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Success in Doses. I'm your host, Saleh. This podcast is about the real journeys behind meaningful careers, the pivots, the risks, the moments of doubt, and the lessons that shape who we become. Each episode, I sit down with people who are building impactful lives and careers, and we break down the experiences that help them get there. Because success rarely happens overnight, it happens in doses. Let's dive in on becoming on purpose. Good morning, everybody. I I'm giddy, you can hear it, but that's because this platform gives me an opportunity to share a piece of myself. I have one of my faves that I'm talking to today. Um, and I can't wait for this conversation to kick off because it's something that I am incredibly passionate about that I see her putting a lot of work and energy and expertise into to bringing and further elucidating the need for more conversations about this. Today, we are talking about self-advocacy and how it continues to be one of the most grossly underutilized tools in trying to mitigate burnout in young professionals and new learners. And who else to have that conversation with but the resilience pharmacist? Like there's there's no one else. And so if you have not figured out who I'm talking about yet, I am talking about my very good friend Kate Kozart. She is a clinical pharmacist practitioner who serves veterans at the Tennessee Valley Healthcare System Community-based outpatient clinic in Clarksville, Tennessee, with a scope of practice in primary care, in addition to serving as preceptor for PGY1 residents and API students from several schools of pharmacy. She was one of the inaugural ASHP well-being ambassadors in 2022, and that's how I found her, and was selected as 2022 Outstanding Student Preceptor by ASCP and named the 2024 Health System Pharmacist of the Year by the Tennessee Pharmacists Association, Tennessee Society of Health System Pharmacists, and most recently has been honored with the 2026 Student Advocate Award by the Tennessee Pharmacist Association for her commitment to learner success and growth in the pharmacy profession. She has a passion for writing and speaking on all things well-being, especially burnout. Guys, I told you, I'm not bringing you chumps. I'm bringing you the real deal. Okay. Psychological safety, motivating learners, imposter phenomenon, professional identity formation, and compassion in medicine, with recent presentation at ASHP Mid Year, the ASHP National Preceptors Conference, ACCP Annual Meeting, ASCP Annual Meeting, Tennessee Pharmacist Association Winter and Summer Meetings, the University of Rhode Island Seminar by the Sea, the Zeta Cooper Leadership Symposium, and the 2024 and 2025 Phylum the Sigma Leadership Summit. I give you my good friend and partner in the battle of making pharmacy healthier for learners and new practitioners. Hi, Kate. Hello, Soleil.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Oh my God. I'm so happy. And you're you'll hear Kate and I chit chat it because it's our first time Connectors this mid-year, which we're gonna do better. But for the person that is listening to this episode today and you hear all of what I just outlined, I think lived experiences, you believe this, is one of the most powerful things that can help set you up for success and being authentically yourself. I want you to take us through a little bit about who was the pharmacy student, Kate. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

So believe it or not, Kate as a pharmacy student was kind of a train wreck. So on the surface, I was doing the things. I uh was very involved in all of the professional organizations. I was involved with our ASHP group. I was president of the pharmaceutical society organization. It was involved in PLS. I absolutely was on the surface level, the the go-getter, the one that was involved in interning at the hospital and doing research and really trying to set myself up for a successful career.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

But in the background, a lot of my personal life was really falling apart and no one knew.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

It's wild. And I always tell people, I was like, I feel like pharmacy students are some of the most resilient of postgraduate trainees and learners out there because I hear so many stories about so many people that were battling more than just I have to have academic excellence, but also the adult that I am in the world is struggling and all this. So, how do you, how did you get through that phase of your life? I imagine that it took some time to even be comfortable talking about the version of student pharmacist that you were to the person that you are today and how you position yourself to be a source of so much positivity and light for young learners. Okay, so real quick, if you're enjoying this conversation, go ahead and rate and review the podcast. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation going. Okay, so let's get back to the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Absolutely, it took a long time. So, to be honest, I think this is one of the reasons that I am so passionate about talking about things like imposter phenomenon because I didn't feel feel like I spent so much time going, I am faking it. Right. I am I know that I am smart and I know that I can do this, but I'm also keeping up this facade of having so much of my life together because I was afraid that had I spoken up and said, actually, I'm going through a divorce and sleeping on people's couches, yeah you know, having friends and students taking pity on me. Yeah, if people had known that side, would they have thought she can be a successful resident, or would they have thought she's a train wreck? We don't want to match that.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Yes. Oh my gosh, can we talk about this for a second? The space I'm in, the candidates are petrified about being authentic. We tell them, be yourself, be authentic. And the resounding question that comes up for every single one that has overcome something difficult housing insecurity, substance use disorder in the family, or even with them themselves as they were surviving school, abuse, domestic violence, they think that sharing that stuff when you are in a competitive landscape like residency is a negative. What do you want that candidate to know about authenticity and its power in a process like postgraduate training?

SPEAKER_02 7:16

So I think there is so much power, and honestly, more than you realize, there's gonna be somebody like me that's going, I see myself in you. I didn't have the courage to say any of the things that were happening at that level of my life because of fear. And so I'm gonna go, wow, like I'm honoring that bravery and that vulnerability in you if I hear a candidate that's very open about struggles. I tell my students all the time, like I am an open book. And it didn't happen immediately, right? Like I definitely kept a lot of this close to the best for a few years because I wanted to, I guess, prove myself before I took that jump. But once I felt like I really had started to open myself up to being someone that people knew as successful, yeah, that also came with me adding those layers of vulnerability and saying, you see success, but let me tell you all the pieces that it took to get there, all of the nights that I just cried in the floor because I didn't know how to even live my life beyond the classroom.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Yeah. Oh my God. I admire your courage and bravery so much in talking about that because it's I don't know what it is. Like when I was in school, it was really, I had to be perfect. Perfectionism was a real thing. Can you talk to us a little bit about the intersectionality between imposter syndrome and the chase of perfectionism? Because that's that I think is what's gonna really usher us into how they come to us as young learners and appies in residencies, and you're watching a thing happening in front of you. And it's like, how do we kind of start engaging them to help them recognize like what's happening? So let's start with like what imposter phenomenon, what is this thing? What is it, Kate? Tell us.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Yeah. So imposter phenomenon, it really comes down to those feelings of self-doubt, those feelings of I don't belong here. I didn't deserve to make it to where I'm at. But not only that, I think the piece that really differentiates it being imposter phenomenon is that you let it hold you back.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Because all of us are gonna have some healthy self-doubt at times where we know we don't know something. None of us are ever at a point where we have achieved and we know all of the things, right? There's something to learn every single day. Absolutely. And I hope that if you're in pharmacy, you're a lifelong learner that knows that you're never gonna have every single thing figured out.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

But it's when you let that hold you back and you let it limit your ability to put yourself out there and be authentic. That's really where you start seeing those imposter thoughts coming in, right? Is that if I'm found out, they're gonna know I don't belong here. As opposed to going, I do deserve to be here. And also there's room for growth. Yeah. That growth mindset is what carries you beyond the perfectionism. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah. And in in a final year student pharmacist, how does some of this manifest as you're watching them? And you, it's, I think it's one of the favorite things about my career, the opportunity to watch students and that transition. And I'm watching and I'm like, but you were just a second-year student pharmacist? Like, how did we get here? You're finishing a PGY too and starting your first job, right? But how does some of this imposter syndrome and perfectionism, this tug of war in appy students, how does that, what does that look like from an outsider watching them?

SPEAKER_02 11:04

I usually notice it when I hear the learner qualify things where they think they know something, but they want to always leave that caveat of, well, I don't know for sure. Uh-huh. They want to protect themselves. Yeah. Because they're afraid that if they go all in on saying, I know this thing, and then they're wrong, that's going to make them feel like a fraud. Confirmation. Yes. And so if I start hearing a lot of that recurrent verbiage of, well, I'm not completely sure, but this is what I think I know. But they typically are on the money, that's when I go, okay, like you know what you know. So just own it. Own what you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

What do you think preceptors maybe can do differently, right? Because I think sometimes, like I tell everybody, I will never not take an opportunity to attend a preceptor development because I always learn something new that I feel like, no, my student tomorrow, I'm gonna test this out. I'm gonna see if this works for me. But I think when I talk to some of my colleagues, it's not that they don't want students, they just feel like they're ill-prepared to take on the responsibility of teaching and guiding another student. And for someone like you, where this is such a comfort zone, it's a passion for you. What advice do you have for the millennial or even somebody that's interested in starting to experiment with precepting? What are some thoughts you have about how to get started and becoming more confident in that space?

SPEAKER_02 12:38

I think number one is that we all walk in the door with a growth mindset every day. Right. I'm a huge proponent of talking about this with learners because honestly, I had never heard that term until after residency, right? Absolutely. And to some degree, I think that I sold myself short in going, well, I don't know that. I don't understand that. And certain topics I felt like were just beyond me, as opposed to going, I don't know, but I can learn. And so that addition of I that's not what I specialized in, but I can learn. That has been a real game changer for me and helped me chase some kind of extra things like going through a whole mini residency, as they call it, it's like for a 14-hour training on substance use disorder. I never had any training in that in residency, yeah, but decided that as a practitioner, yeah, and and the face that a lot of patients trust, that would actually be a good thing for me to know more about and know how to start those conversations, maybe do prescribing, but also just letting them see me as someone that is well equipped to handle that conversation and start that conversation. Absolutely. And so I think growth mindset is a big, big part of it. And just letting both the learner and the preceptor have that permission to go, I don't know, but I know I'm capable of learning this. I think it is absolutely a great idea for all of us as preceptors to take away that idea of I have to know everything. Yeah. You know, I have tried to normalize telling my learners, I'm gonna look that up. I don't remember. Right? Like formulary changes, and I don't remember the dose adjustment on this DPP4 because I haven't used it in a lifetime. And so letting them see that I look things up really is one of the big things that I would say for a young preceptor, especially because you're young and you want them to think you're competent, but showing learners that competence doesn't mean knowing everything, it means knowing how to use the skills.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Oh gosh. That I feel like that's such a profound statement, Kate, because we equate competence with knowing it all inside and out, fully. Wake me up out of my sleep, ask me what is the dosing and what is the reno dose adjustment. I can tell you normal and renal dose adjustment. That's when I believe I'm competent. But what you're talking about here is that as a person who's making the decision to contribute and have a learner where you want to play a role in that person's development, normalizing for that person and them watching you confidently say, I'm gonna look that up to make sure that I am more confident about my answer. I think it could be a game changer and we should normalize that, right? And I want to have us talk about residency and how we receive our learners. You go through recruiting every single year. You're giddy. You get like all excited about recruiting. I see you at mid-year, you're going to showcase, you got this presentation. It's such an exciting time for you. And it's it genuinely shows how much you love getting your next class in, right? What are you thinking about? Like that excitement, what feels that for you when you go to mid-year and you're like, yes, it's go time, let's meet some people. Where does that come from for you?

SPEAKER_02 15:57

I think a lot of it is remembering what it's like to be on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

And, you know, a lot of us went into the showcase and had programs that they felt like they genuinely wanted to meet you and programs that didn't. Absolutely. And so that's one piece of it, right? Is I I do absolutely love learning and training and all of that. That is there is no front there. That is truly, I will nerd out on education things all day.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Okay, so real quick, if you're enjoying this conversation, go ahead and rate and review the podcast. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation going. Okay, so let's get back to the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

But also, I don't ever want a student to come up and meet me and go, she did not want to be here. Yeah. Because that is the furthest thing from the truth.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah. Oh, we know. We know. I was like, look at Kate all excited in her sneakers. Like, she's about business. She's ready to go to the check-ins. So then when they come on the interview and everything, what do you hope every single pharmacy residency candidate gets out of their interview experience? Like as a person who sits on the other side and you drive a lot of this process. What do you see? And you're like, oh, I wish you could see what I see type thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

I hope that they see that there is deep commitment to training them well, right? Because honestly, I work with some of the most fantastic preceptors that I am just honored that I get to even like share space with, right? And so we are constantly trying to let them know like we are committed to being educators. We are committed to helping them see what it's like to have a family dynamic where a lot of preceptors we call on each other for things, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Like I have a great friend who is a psych pharmacist. And so we joke in you know our interviews because all of a sudden there'll be something that we're discussing, and she's like, I learned a new thing today because I didn't know what that word meant. You know, as a candidate might mention something that they did on a rotation, and she's like, tell me about that because that's out of her wheelhouse, and it's a chance for them to watch us also be curious, yeah, and see that that is not something that we ever put away. We all are lifelong learners who are curious and want to learn outside our normal practice.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

A hundred percent. It's so important, and and you've talked about it so much, right? Lifelong learner mindset, growth mindset. I feel like when it's the transformation that I see in like the candidates between interview one and three, by the third interview, it's like something has happened. They have figured out who they are. They're like, I know. And I ask them, what are your three pillars that you're leaving behind? Oh, I know what it is. It's work ethic, dependability, and willingness to learn. I'm like, okay, that wasn't clear when we've been working two weeks ago, but it's clear now. And I don't think people understand that the process, it will reveal things to you about you. And when you have an amazing interaction with an amazing program, you walk away like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the one. I this is where I see this thing going. So then they come to you after match day. It's super exciting. Everybody's like, yay, we got the candidates we want it. And they come to you and residency starts, and it starts like from day one. It's at 100 already. By October, it's at 250%. I would really love your perspective on how important communication and self-advocacy is at this stage of their career.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Yeah. So I think it's really interesting, right? Because a lot of us, especially if we've been practicing for a little while, we never would have even used that term. Yeah. Oh my God, no. I had a a conversation actually earlier today. So in our residency program, I lead a book club and we go through the um the seven habits of highly effective people. And so we were talking at book club today. Right? So good. So we're talking about that. And one of the things in the chapter that we were discussing was about boundaries and saying no, right? And I cannot even fathom, like as a student or a resident, yeah, even considering that, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

It was like if there was even a glimmer of an opportunity, you say yes. There is no no. And you know, I think that obviously in residency, there are the things that you don't really have a choice to say no to. And but then there's plenty of things that you're choosing. Yes. And so we had a great conversation today about what are things you wish you'd said no to. Yeah. What are things that maybe did not go the way you thought they were going to when you first said yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Because it also teaches you not only to advocate for yourself, but to ask better questions. Absolutely. Because maybe you didn't have a great understanding of what you were getting into before you said yes, right? You jumped on it, you said yes, and then you said, that's not what I was expecting. And so teaching residents now to start having those skills where they're asking enough questions that they can't have that level of advocacy and have I'm honored by the offer. I don't think this is the right time for me to pursue that. It's okay to say that now is not the right time. Yeah. And I didn't learn that until far later in my career.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Ma'am, none of us did, right? Because the the prevailing advice is raise your hand often, say yes, even if you don't. Know what the next steps are. And so I always tell students like there has to be a version of this whole thing where raising my hand often can coexist with also recognizing that not right now is okay. But raising my hand always and always and constantly being in a crisis, engaging in things that I absolutely don't even find valuable, enjoyable at all, just because I want to be known as the person who always raises their hand, that's gonna cause more harm because that that the road to burnout, it's paved with just examples of that, right? And so for you as a teacher and somebody that works with young learners, how do you, what are some clues as you're watching things unfold and the year unfold where you're like, you're gonna burn yourself out going like that? And how do you facilitate bringing that person, calling them in for that check-in to just make sure that like I'm picking up on some cues and I just want to make sure like you're good?

SPEAKER_02 23:03

I would say one of the things that I'm constantly watching for is does it seem like they're disengaging? Yeah, right. Are they engaging the same way with their peers, with patients? If I'm not seeing the same level of engagement, yeah, often that is the warning sign, right? Because when we think about what burnout really is, right? We think about the disengagement piece, we think of the lack of feeling personal accomplishment. Yeah, and often that's how that presents is you see them not excited anymore and not connecting with people as much because they're just emotionally exhausted. And so when I see that picture, I immediately am like, okay, first of all, what are what are we doing to make sure that you are taking care of you, right? Where's your community?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Yes, residency is gonna have a lot of things and a lot of deadlines. It takes some skill to navigate that, to navigate all those pieces and do it in a way that does not burn you out. Yeah, right. It can be difficult. Our requirements per ASHB are not a cakewalk. It's not light work, it's not light. Where it's not, but at the same time, it is doable, and especially if you are making a point to really plan things well, know your deadlines, know the things that are coming, and always keep the first things first. Like, don't disconnect from your people and your family and the the things that matter. If you stay plugged into what matters, you are much more likely to be able to succeed.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

And so that's always my first thing. Like, are you are you plugged in at your source?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay, you just gave us a word. We feel like we got to put that on a teacher. If you stay plugged into the things that matter, you're always gonna be more likely to succeed. I think that's so true. My personal experience and how hard my year of residency was, it was also like while I move to the city, I know nobody in, I'm hospitalized the first two weeks of residency. While everybody goes to orientation and gets acclimated and get to grab coffee together, I'm laid up at that hospital where they're all doing rotations. And then I come back and start battling with if I tell this program that I need support because I have to enlist on a transplant list, and that means a lot of appointments, and that means a psych eval. I've never gone through one of those before. And that means if I ask for the support I need here for the things I have going on that have nothing to do with residency, well, that make me a weak resident. And I kid you not, that set me on a path and trajectory where I hurt myself because I figured like I could carry all this burden on my own and not just ask for the support I needed and wait for the place to tell me or really show me who they are, right? Because that would have been a way for me to know what type of place I'm in if they said, we can't help or we can't adjust your schedule, so on and so forth. And so the part about self-advocacy that I find is very important is how do I ask for what I need to be successful? And what do I do when that's not residency related? Is as a uniquely abled individual, a person that is living with a disability, how do I ask for what I need to be supported, particularly when the support I'm asking for has nothing to do with residency. Okay, so real quick, if you're enjoying this conversation, go ahead and rate and review the podcast. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation going. Okay, so let's get back to the conversation. A lot of my fear in getting the support, that was the source of it. I'm asking for accommodations to deal with life, not preceptor issues, not rotation issues, but to deal with life. How do we do that? Or what how do we do that?

SPEAKER_02 27:08

So I would say number one, with a big dose of vulnerability, right? I'm a huge fan of Brene Brown and reading, you know, the power of vulnerability was a really great book for me because it helped me realize that it's not a weakness. Yeah. To say, this is what's going on, yeah, and this is what I need, right? Vulnerability is actually our greatest strength. It's what ties us to other people, right? Absolutely, yeah. Like it allows us to see the shared humanity in each other. And I I know it's hard as a learner to want to do that, but also if you're in the right program, they are going to be so proud of you for that.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Now, if you're not in the right program, it's gonna be hard, right? If you realize that you are not being supported, and then you have hard decisions, right? Of do you stay and tough it out? Do you start over at another time? But I would say we are all humans. Some of us have put up enough walls that we forget it. Yeah, facts but everyone has some cracks in there if you dig far enough. And so I don't ever want a learner to be afraid to let that vulnerability out around me. Yeah. Because I just wish that I had felt that safety to do that sooner in my career.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Oh my god. It's so true. It's it's totally a safety thing. It's totally a safety thing because I think that I did not feel like this was safe for me to do. I felt like really letting them in on what I was up against would have somehow, it would have somehow like changed the way they saw me. And my entire brand was nothing other than I make the impossible possible. I tough it, I tough it out through whatever the obstacle is. I'm gonna push past it and make it happen. But in this instance, I needed help and didn't ask for it, right? And then went on to get very angry when what I needed wasn't being provided. So it's like I had roped myself into this cycle. And and so when I see, when I sit down with the students on day one, I always just say, How can I support you? And I need to know what that looks like both from a learner standpoint and in your life. If there are things going on outside, the sooner you rope me in on that to a level you're comfortable with, the more I know about how I can support you, right? Maybe daycare doesn't open till eight and asking you to be at rotation at seven, it's just not going to be possible for you. So instead of being late chronically, the entire rotation and not tell me anything, telling me that, well, I have a whole drop-off thing I have to do, right? And so I'm really grateful for people like you because I think that when I see white women that are advocating and making vulnerability safer, I think it gives me a lot of courage because I'm not gonna lie to say that identity doesn't cross my mind. Like I ended up in this top program. Was it a fluke, right? Imposter syndrome. I'm gonna be found out, right? Was it a fluke? Uh, was it so? Do I have something to prove? I need to prove that like I didn't end up here by accident, but I have a track record that gives me this space. And so I think like what I love about your position on this is you're advocating for it for everybody and not making it something that is only available to certain people.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Okay, where does that courage come from? I mean, honestly, my faith. Like, I think that's the that's the root of all of it for me, right? Like I know that I'm plugged into somebody that doesn't lose.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Like I may have felt like I lost a lot of battles early in my life when I was struggling, but I also found a much deeper face after that. And so I constantly am going, I don't need to be afraid, right? Like I know that either he's gonna work it for good, yeah, right, or that it's going to be something that this story is gonna benefit someone else.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

I know that you've heard me say it more than once, but I will always say one of my absolute favorite quotes is you know, our scars become lighthouses for those that hit the same rocks we did.

SPEAKER_01 31:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

The author John Acuff said that, and it has always been one of the most guiding things for me as I tell my story, as I write, as I speak. Hearing those words in 2022 really was uh a moment that changed me because I said, I have a lot of scars.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:03

Why am I not sharing them?

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yeah. And we appreciate and admire and respect the courage that with which you share, with which you give. Like I remember, I'm not gonna cry during this episode because that is not why we're here. We can't if we have to. You know, I don't want to. But when my mom passed away and you found out about that, you were one of the most consistent people that checked in every single day. You checked in with a message, you checked in with encouragement, you checked in with prayer. And to you, you're probably just being Kate, right? Like you're probably just being like, I wonder, remember to eat today, right? Like, but they're worrying a ton of people that were that were doing the simple one-liners. Like, I'm just here if you need me. Yeah. And it mattered to me, and it made a difference at a time that was incredibly difficult to describe with respect to just the many pieces that I just fell into, right? But I just want you to know that I I appreciate it. I love it. I would do residency again if you guys would take like I would totally be a resident and like follow you around with my clipboard and just do whatever you say. But thank you, Kate. Thank you. I wish there was another way to kind of repay you for that, but no, I appreciated that very much, and it meant a lot to me that I was on your heart every day like that to check in and check on me. I ask every guest this question because, well, you're full of wisdom. So for the student that has just matched, whether it was phase one or the third, they are preparing to embark on residency. They don't know the community they're about to enter, the hospital they're going to, the organization they're going to join. We pray and wish everybody the best. It won't be like that for everyone. What is your advice for the person that is about to just venture out into the unknown on how they get through this and succeed?

SPEAKER_02 34:15

I think probably one of the things that is the most important to be successful in residency is compassion. And that is mostly starting with yourself. Yes, ma'am. Right. So the fact is, I I've talked a lot about compassion at different, you know, events and things like that. And we talk about how compassion helps us care for patients better, right? But the number one predictor of compassion fatigue and whether or not you're going to be able to continue to pour into other people well is self-compassion. And you cannot stop giving yourself grace.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

If you want to be successful as you care for patients.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Yeah. Oh my God, that's so real. That is so real because we pull up. Like I saw it during COVID. Like it just you pull up and you want to give the patience, but like you're bankrupt. It's like you don't have any more patience to watch one more patient pass away. You don't have any more patience for any of it, but it also starts with you. There's like all this guilt that went along with every day. Um, this is real, real, real, real advice. So having that grace and controlling the conversations we have with ourselves. And again, like you've said it so many times, the growth mindset and you don't know everything is so, so important. I'm so grateful that we did this. And if you are a student that is going into residency, you should follow Kate. You should follow Kate because Kate's messages are not just for her student, her spirit, and all of this energy and light that she shares are not just for her residents. She really does put it out there for everybody to be able to benefit from it. And I hope that I've been able to introduce you to someone today that you're going to carry with you and have her be like a distant member of your board of directors on your journey to success. I appreciate you. I respect you. I admire you so much. Thank you. That's mutual. Thank you, Kay. I appreciate you doing this. And please have a wonderful rest of your day. Okay, so real quick, if you're enjoying this conversation, go ahead and rate and review the podcast. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation going. Okay, so let's get back to the conversation. Now that it is just us, you guys, I cannot tell you how absolutely amazing it is to hear from Kate. Every time I talk to her, I learn something new about her. But the point of this episode, and I hope that you heard it because Kate made it multiple times, it's that number one, it is never as bad as we think it is in the way we think about ourselves. That kindness and that grace that we have to give ourselves if we decide that continuous improvement is a goal. There is no endpoint. So our mindset around learning, the way we view ourselves as learners, and the places and contexts and importance we place on the people who've been trusted with the responsibility to teach us and why it's important for those folks to also humble themselves and demonstrating for new learners that it is okay not to know everything. Self-advocacy is a really new idea. You heard Kate talk about it today. When we were going through it, we didn't know what that was, we didn't know what that looked like. So we just powered through whatever was put in front of us. But you also learned today that there is a possibility that you can say no, not right now, and that not be this earth-shattering decision that's going to derail your entire career. I think what's can what's continuing to make Kate very successful in this space as a student advocate is that you genuinely sense a desire to want to make things better. And that's not always true for everyone. For some people, it's just a job. But when you meet Kate and talk to her, you can sense that she is genuinely interested in raising awareness, empowering others, educating and pouring into others so that we are all on this continuous journey of becoming better versions of ourselves. And we are doing that with a lot of grace, a lot of patience, a lot of humility. But um, I'm grateful that I was able to have this conversation with my friend today. And I'm grateful that that I may have been able to introduce you to a new person on your journey to becoming the best version of who you're meant to be. Thank you for joining us always and have a wonderful rest of your week. I'll see you again next week. Okay, bye. If this episode gave you something to think about, something to hold on to, or even something to act on, I want to ask you for one more thing. Take a moment to write down and review the podcast. It feels really small, but it's actually one of the biggest ways you can support this show. It helps more people find these conversations and become part of this community. We're building right here on Success and DOS.