Be the Teacher You Want to See in the World

What does it take to become the Pilates teacher you aspire to be? Joy chats with Lesley Logan, founder of OPC (Online Pilates Classes), Pilates educator, business owner, and host of the Be It Till You See It podcast, for a candid conversation about teaching, self-advocacy, and building a meaningful Pilates career.

Lesley shares practical advice for new and experienced Pilates instructors alike, including how to build confidence before you feel fully ready, create the kind of learning environment you wish existed for yourself, and foster a genuine sense of belonging for every client. Hear about the power of curiosity, the importance of asking questions, and why great teaching starts with listening.

Together, Joy and Lesley discuss how self-advocacy can help movement professionals find the right opportunities, why instructors should focus on what clients can do rather than what they can’t, and how creating a welcoming, supportive Pilates experience leads to stronger client relationships and better outcomes.

Tune in for an empowering conversation on Pilates instruction, professional growth, authentic leadership, and creating the kind of movement community you’d be excited to join yourself.

This episode is powered by Balanced Body®.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Hello and welcome to Pilates Perspectives. This is Joy, and today I have Leslie Logan to discuss self-advocacy, empowerment, and practical tips for new instructors. But let's take a moment to check in. Today I want to talk to you about confidence. As a person interacting in our world today, you have probably heard countless messages about confidence, self-empowerment, and self-growth. You have also likely received mixed signals on how confident you should appear. Oftentimes, we're told to be humble, but not too humble. We're told to advocate for ourselves, but not to appear entitled. We're told to love ourselves, but as a whole, we aren't given the tools and support to understand what loving yourself, what exuding confidence, would even look like, let alone how to apply it to our own individual and often messy lives. As someone lucky enough to have your ear for however long you choose to listen to this podcast, I won't pretend to know the exact answers for your unique situation. But what I will do is invite you to take a little time with me to think about how confidence and the expectations around being and looking confident have impacted your life. So let's start by just taking some breaths together. Big inhale in through the nose and exhale for a count of four or five. And keep breathing as I ask you a few questions. When we talk about confidence, if you had a little meter from one to ten, where would you say generally out in the world you would find yourself? Are there situations where you feel more emboldened, empowered to be confident than others? Are you able to show up authentically as your own self? Or are there times in which you feel you just have to change or conform? Is there something that you would like to change, or something you wouldn't mind staying the same? Lastly, take a second to think about someone or a few people that you admire and keep breathing deeply as they come to mind. Do these people appear to be confident to you? Are they truly confident? Are they themselves conforming? Are they people that you aspire to be like? And what about them is inspiring or inspirational to you? And in the spaces where you are confident, how can you share that confidence with others to help empower them? Okay. Thanks for taking that time. Today we have Leslie Logan. Uh, she is NCPT certified, a second generation Pilates instructor, and the chief Pilates officer or CPO officially at online PilatesClasses.com. Known across multiple industries as a leading expert on how Pilates changes your life. Leslie has taught thousands of students, trained hundreds of teachers, and has been at countless workshops internationally. You can find her on social media via at Leslie.logan or at profitable.pilates or on YouTube at online Pilates classes. And today's title is How Students Can Self-Advocate. However, I get the sense we're gonna go in on a lot of different topics.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I hope we do. I hope it helps everybody who's listening.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Um Leslie, I so I'm driving over here and I'm like, what is the first thing I want to ask Leslie? And then I walk in and I see your coffee cup, and your coffee cup has the bright red lipstick on it. And I, or it's actually not red, it's actually pinkish. It's a pink red. It's a pink red. Um uh so if I could give you that visual, it's a white coffee cup with just this lovely like ring of pink red around it. Um so what's a morning like for Leslie Logan before the pink red lipstick goes on?

SPEAKER_02 5:01

Oh, this, okay. I'm excited to talk about this because I think people don't realize how much time I spend alone before a day starts. So if I'm at home, real morning is alarm goes off. I actually get in a cold plunge.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Ooh, you do? I do. So wait, what time does the alarm go off? About 5 a.m. Okay, and you go right into a cold plunge. Yes. Do you have like a bucket outside that's really light?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

We have that work. Okay, so we have an extra bathroom. I like we call it the annex. Okay, so now you're getting into my husband and the way we think. But like this house has a master bathroom, and then literally across the hall is a bathroom. I would presume if you had children, that would be their bathroom.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

It's like the bathroom, the, yeah, but it's this extra bathroom.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

It's like an air and a spare. You've got a master and a spare. You exactly. And so it's where the jewelry, the hats, like the makeup, everything is there, and then there's a bathtub, and we just keep it as a cold plunge and it's ready to go. Anytime someone's gonna cold plunge, it's already there. So we get in and like it's a great way to wake. You wake up and it's don't worry, ladies, it's set at a temperature that's perfect for a perimenopause. Like, don't, I know the stats. I don't need to hear the I got the right number on there. Um, but I have a daily journal and I read in this cold plunge. Like, what the you in the cold plunge? Four minutes.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Because a plunge should be like a plunge.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah, no, four minutes. That's like an eternity. It feels like it. So, but then I take my dog for a Do you do a full dunk or is it just shoulders? Just shoulders down. No, I'm not. No. I maybe I should do that, but that just feels might be good for your hair follicles. I know, I know. Also, I have so much hair, and then I think depending on the time of year, that would be a bad idea because it's cold in Vegas in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Already way. I know.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

They're like, what are you talking about? But so but I think this is important for self-advocacy. I know what I need in the morning. So I take my dog for a walk in the morning. I love it because the neighborhood's pretty quiet. There's a few neighbors who are out, but it's Vegas. So I see the Vegas skyline, I can see the strat, the sphere, the whole thing. Take the dogs for a walk. And then um, I actually do a few things. Either I do Pilates for me right away, right? Or I, if it's an applies day, then I'm doing some red light and some journaling. So I'm just thinking about it. But my work day, the makeup, the nothing starts until 9 a.m. So from five to nine, I get to do whatever I want.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Is you is you time. Well, that's part of what you know, actually the topic is self-advocacy. Part of the self-advocacy is is what are you doing for yourself? Yeah. Um, so you have this morning routine that that, and I hate to even say routine because routine already puts it in a box, but you have these morning experiences that you cultivate for yourself. Does that uh how impactful is that for your creativity, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 7:31

I think it's the I think it's the most important part of being creative because you have to have space. Once the day starts, and even though I live on Do Not Disturb, and my voicemail says text if you actually want to talk to me, like once the day starts, the Slack messages, the emails, you become in a reactionary state to what other people are saying or thinking or asking or needing from you. And so the only way to have a moment of creativity is to almost be in a space where no one can interrupt it. Your mind can just wander. Um, I actually love going on a tangent with my brain. I think it's so fun to see where I end up. Um, and I think like not every idea I have, not every creative idea is a great one for me, but sometimes they're just great ideas, you know? And I I find them to be really fun to go through. Everything that I've created that people see and experience has come from a question that I maybe thought I had an answer to. And then later on a walk or while I'm doing my Pilates practice, my mind goes, Wait a minute, what if we could do that? What would that look like? How could I do that? Why isn't that happening? And so, like my mind, I I think that's the only way I could have the creativity. I don't, I don't have creative ideas at night. It's very rare.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Oh no, it's almost like at the end, like the exhaustion of the day just sort of shuts that down, at least for me. And it's those morning, it's the little morning rituals and routines that really just sort of uh tease that out. Uh and tease it out organically. Talk to me about your Pilates practice. Yeah. So in your the mornings that are Pilates mornings, like what is it that what is it that you go to? Okay, so a couple things.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

I have to get on my spine corrector in the morning. I am obsessed with the arm series. Everyone should do it. Everyone should do it. Um, there's not a single person out there who doesn't need the arm series. Well, I guess there's people who have shoulder and neck stuff. Okay, different people. But like most of us, if you, if you teach or you work at a computer, it's one of the best things. So I love extension in the morning because it's actually the only way I could do some of my flexion. So I get on my spine corrector, and then from there, it kind of depends. If it's a day that I'm gonna do a full hour, then I'll usually get on my reformer and or mat and see where that leads me. If it's a day where I'm like, this is my 15 minute, maybe more, and this is important to know. Sometimes it's just 15 minutes. Then I might get on my foot corrector, then I might get on my tower, my catalog. I kind of just like putz around and like see what what my body is asking for. So I have two days a week that are like long and I am using the order, I'm on the mat on the reformer and seeing where it leads. And the other days, I'm like, what do I feel like? I haven't been on my ladder barrel this week. Let's get on there. Where does that lead me?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Nice, nice. Well, that's also I think really important for people to realize. So, what you're saying is you have your schedule workouts, but then on the unstructured days, you're giving yourself the grace to decide what your body needs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Um sometimes it's a two by four. You'd be surprised what a two by four tells you about your body that you need. And then you're like, oh, look at that pedophile. Let's try it out. Uh-huh. I think that that I thought that that's a normal thing for a teacher or even a person with applies practice to do. It's not. It's uh, I don't know that everyone is is taught to have a self-practice. Yeah. Um, and I think that's where a lot, I hope to inspire a lot of people, like having a self-practice where no one is watching me, you know, like that's on purpose. Uh it's not about correcting everything. It's just like, what am I feeling? What how is this going to be? Being curious. Yes. Right? Imagine that, being curious about yourself. I think the world would be a different place if we all were a little more curious about ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Um, so you described your first impressions of Pilates before taking a class as a late-night infomercial product. Um, what's that all about?

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Okay, so it took me years to admit that to anybody. I used to just be so embarrassed about like what my first thoughts about Pilates were because um, you know, it was it was such a life-changing experience. But I do remember I can tell you exactly where I was standing in the store that I ran. And this coworker's like, hey, we should go to Pilates. And I was like, oh, that's an infomercial workout. It can't do what it says. Mind you, I like was a retired runner at the time. Like I had a personal training certification. Like, so I just was like, I know what fitness is. That isn't it. Um, but there was this part of me that was like, you need a friend. I was living in a town that I went to college in, but all of my college friends had moved away. And so I didn't have anyone who would was asking me to do anything. I would just go to work and then go to my apartment. And so I thought, well, I'll just go to this class and then we'll go have some avocado toast and I'll never have to go to class again. Right. And so where is this? Is this I was in Costa Mesa, so it's in Orange County. Okay. And I think this is really my first class was at the Bossi headquarters. So talk about a weird place. There's a Bosse headquarters. I didn't know anything. I didn't know that there was classical contemporary. I didn't know, I didn't know what it what it was. I saw these weird machines, and I was like, okay, but I was there for a mat class. And you know, I we did the hundred, and I just remember going, This is the weirdest thing. But the hundred is so long, and I just kept going. And then you start going, oh, that is so weird.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

I'm I feel isn't it amazing how many things you can think of during the course of 10 breaths for 10 times? Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

And so you you you start to like, it's like, why am I doing this? This is really lame, but everyone else is doing it, so it's a little culty, but also you're like, okay, they don't think it's weird, so I'm doing it. And, you know, but then like you're like, whoa, I feel I'm feeling parts of my body I don't feel when I'm at the gym. I'm feeling all these things. And so the class keeps going, and I'm getting more excited about each thing because they were the moves were so foreign to me. You know, they're not things that I've ever done.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

And I was like, This is has this origin story is not one I would have, I would have, I would have put for you. No. No.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

And so I I tell you guys, I left the class, called my father and said, you must do Pilates. I've taken one class. I was already pros, how do you say the word? Proselyzing, like I was already a prophet, like going around telling people, you have I was a disciple. I'm in. Um I went, I looked online where Pilates classes were in my town. I was running this jewelry store. I changed the entire schedule so that I could go to a Pilates class every single day. Fantastic. And so I was doing math. Uh, Lisa Hubbard was one of my first teachers at the Yoga Works. I know how crazy is that. And so I was obsessed and I couldn't tell you what I was feeling. Like I couldn't articulate it the way I can now. But as a hypermobile body, as a person who like didn't really feel like I belonged where I lived. Like I remember being a kid going, I can't wait to get out of this town. Right. And like in high school, I can't wait to get out of this. And like all of a sudden you realize I'm just can't waiting to get out of whatever I'm in. So you're not really living and not really belonging. But I, when I was in Pilates, I think what I was feeling was what it was like to belong in my body. Right. Fantastic. Yeah. Because when people would say, You just you're saying your own two feet, I didn't feel my feet when I was standing. I was hyper saying my knees. I wasn't, you know what I mean? I didn't feel I'm like my feet. So I felt it was like belonging my body. And I remember in one of the mat classes I was in, I heard my brain go, I don't like living here. And I was like, what a weird thing to think.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Talk about the body-mind connection, right? You were having, as you're moving, just opening your mind to the to your possibilities.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Totally. So then I go to work that day and the phone rings, and it's a girl who has my job in Santa Monica, California. And she's like, I just want you to know I put my two-week notice in. And I was like, I'm gonna take your, I'm gonna transfer into your job. We have the same job. So I immediately hung up, called the bosses, and I said, I want her job. I need to move. I don't like living here anymore. Fantastic. And then because I moved to LA, is how in searching for a Pilates studio, how I found a teacher who was like, you should teach this. And I thought, I can become a Pilates instructor. Like I wasn't raised, like I was like, I'm in a jewelry store. This is my job. Right. This is my job.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

This is gonna be my career. This is my career for the next 50 years.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Right. Yeah. Like I have student loans. Like I'm gonna go back to school, like I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna put a training on a on a credit card. Like it was a whole weird thing, but it's truly because I got to feel what was like the long of my body, it's what led me into this cute starting to be more curious about how I was feeling, what I was thinking. And I think that's what led me to where we are.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

But I uh so uh a few things. The late night infomercial product, I I do want to tell you, I share that with you. My son was just born, and of course I'm up at two o'clock in the morning, and uh, and what do I see but the the Maury Windsor infomercial? Yeah, and I'm and legs are going everywhere, every which way. And I'm thinking, I could never, right? So to think that this is where I am all these years later, it cracks me up. Um Well, because I'm not a dancer, that's not my background, and then that's like the other You said that to me at the POT recently, and I was like, What?

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Yeah, no, not a dancer. Everyone thinks I am. I have the arches. Okay, thank you. My mom was a dancer, but I she took me to the San Francisco ballet teachers and they were like, don't take your money.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Absolute love, but your absolute love and physicality in the movement is really, I think, why people just assume that you were a dancer.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

I think so. I think so. So I remember being kind of embarrassed because of my origin story and also, you know, being in LA as a police instructor and being one of the non-dancers. Like now there's a lot of non-dancer teachers, but back then, yeah. It was like almost like I felt like I don't belong here. People are gonna find out, so I better start looking and acting like a dancer.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

So, so even from back then, this idea of belonging was really big for you. Yeah. And the and this idea of finding a space where you've where you felt like you fit. And the first space was yourself in your own body. Um, so tell me, uh let's just finish this origin story. Where where did you end up? Who who said to you be a teacher?

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Her name was Julie, and she owned a studio in um Los Angeles. She was the one who was told me exactly where to go get to be taught. She's like, this is the best program in town. And I was supposed to actually learn from Carrie Samper. And the way the world worked out, she was no longer a teacher trainer for them, but she was at Equinox, and I decided, I saw that she had a Mat class three times on the schedule, and I decided to charge an Equinox membership so I could take her Mat class three days a week.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Your credit card got quite on.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

You guys, I am the queen of points now, but like everything goes on the credit card so you can get a hotel. But at any rate, I uh I did that three days a week. Her classes were part of like I could count them as my hours for self-practice. And I did that so that I could work for her because I was like, if I can work for her, then I could be a mentor under her. Like I didn't know what mentorship looked like, but I was just like, I knew enough to know that I didn't know enough. Right. And I and she had so much kindness and so much grace. And if you know her, you know that. And in fact, as my journey went along, at one point in my education, she's like, I've taught you all that I know. You need to go over here. And that's how I ended up at Jay Grimes' studio because of her, because she wasn't and how humble, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

For her to like just say, Listen, uh, you need you need more, and this is who can give it to you.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah, I thought it was really so. I think like that I could tell, I didn't feel like I belonged at the space where I was learning to be a Palais instructor, and I was seeking like, but I I need more. I'm gonna I don't know enough. Like this manual is great, but I don't know enough. And I just so she really kind of was instrumental in me finding the little spaces that I belonged in, um, in the space, which I think is important for anybody who's a new teacher. You need to feel like if you don't feel like you belong where you're learning to teach Palais, you you do need to go find that space.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Okay, so now uh I I'm doing this long enough. You're doing this long enough to know that back then, when you were doing this, there were not a lot of teacher trainings. No. Um, the idea of belonging really didn't exist. If you weren't a dancer, it felt like you were in somebody else's like thing, jam.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Um, but but a lot of that has changed. But it it feels to me, even your podcast, be it until you see it, like a it's almost like you created a space for yourself inside of this Pilates industry that takes all of those experiences forward um and really assists the new instructor in finding their worth.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

Oh, thank you. That's what I hope. I um I feel like I remember with the first training program I was in, it felt like you need to be in this space and keep going to these places. And you if you don't, then you lose your certificate. That's how it was back then, right? And so even though I had like done a certification test where I could take from other people, it's like, well, if you don't keep up this one, then you're out. Right. And I was like, that is so strange. You're either in or you're out. Yeah. And maybe because I didn't have a dance background, or maybe because I came in from this, like, maybe the way my I just like that doesn't make any sense. Oh, you know, and I I didn't, when I was at that place of education, I didn't feel like I belonged. So why would I want to be here? So I just kept looking for spaces. And then it was in being it till you see it, which is kind of how I live my life, which is like, well, well, what would that space look like and how can I create it? And how can I make it happen now? And I think that um my big my big thing is like I know what it's like to feel kind of like this outsider looking in, uh-huh. Not just in this industry, but kind of in the like in different spaces. And so you start to conform and change who you are, which only works for a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Only works for a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

You can you can try, but at some point you burn out, you blow up, you you blow your life up. In my case, I just like quit everything. Uh you know. Um, but like you um it won't ever really feel like it fits until you you actually go into either you create the space or you find the space. Uh-huh. That is, and that's kind of what I hope to create for people. Um, I've been blessed to have been told that people think I'm like a bridge in this industry, and I like that. I want to be a bridge to help people go from like where they don't feel like they're understood or that they understand, and then to a place where like actually not most people don't know what they're doing. They're all just really actually being it till they see it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

And that's everybody, it's not just in Pilates. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

So let me just like pull back the curtain and also like here's a roadmap of how, you know, let me guide you over and then you get to go do what you want to do. Let me launch you.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Let me launch you. Um, so so define be it until you see it.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Okay, so um, be it till you see it is the idea of acting like the person you want to be before you're there. How many times have you said, when I have this, then I'll get eight hours of sleep. When I have this amount of money, then I'll start saving, when I have this. And we all do it, right? Um, and so there's two stories where Be It Till You See It comes from. One, as a young, like I was still living my parents' house. I I I I think it was when there was the Apprentice, but then there was the Martha Stewart one. Do you remember that? Yes, maybe. Maybe it was a little bit, maybe it was a little old, maybe I was in college, but I remember the episode where this woman who was on The Apprentice was like, Well, you gotta fake it till you make it. And I remember Martha looking at her. We don't fake anything here. And I just remember thinking, everyone says fake it till you make it. And come on, Martha, like you don't fake it. Like, but I remember, and then I just remember that it stuck with me.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

I'd love to know the story behind that.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

I would love to, but the I remember it like played in my head because you always hear fake it till you make it. Fake it, and I remember going, Well, no wonder I feel oh, like I don't belong. I'm fake. This is not it, just I now if fake it till you make it works for you, I'm not taking that away from you. But it didn't work for me.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

And in this industry, we're still it actually it actually starts from a place of not being authentic. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

And that is a value system of mine is authenticity. Like my favorite compliment of life when people meet me is that they're like, Oh, you're the same as you are online. Yes, I am. I she really is. I really is. I am a terrible actress. I'm gonna try like my face gives it away. So um, so I I remember that getting stuck because I remember like people in my life saying, Oh, fake it till you make it. That's how you do it. And I didn't like going, we don't fake anything here. So Amy Cuddy has a TED talk. And uh she this I heard around 2020, she was talking about how she was like in an Ivy League school, super, super smart, then she has a traumatic brain injury, and somehow she gets into a master's program uh and she doesn't feel like she belongs. And she's telling the story how she goes as a professor and she's like, somebody made a mistake, my brain doesn't work the same way anymore. I don't belong here. And the professor said, Well, if you belonged here, how what would you do? Like, what does someone who belongs here do in class? And they basically came with this plan where she was gonna ask a question in every single class and she's gonna do this in every single class. And then years down the road, she now finds herself as a professor at like Columbia. And a student comes in and goes, Hey, um, Professor Cuddy, like somebody made a mistake. I don't belong here. And she said, in that moment, I realized it's not fake it till you make it, it's be it till you see it. And so I was watching that going, that is what I'm gonna name my podcast and like what it is I do. It's not about coming from place in authenticity. It's coming like, if I was there, if I was this person, what does that person do? How does that person act? Right. And it really helped me um propel my businesses and everything that we do, any idea I have, any creative idea. I'm like, okay, so if it goes the way the dream way we want, what does it mean? And you can work backwards from a be it till you see it. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Reverse engineer it. Yes, yeah, because that'll give you the steps you need to get there.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, and I love reverse engineering everything. Like I I don't know about you. If I've had a maze, I like to go in the finish line and go backwards.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

100%. 100%. Yes, some people call it cheating.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

I call it reverse engineering.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

I call it reverse engineering 100%. Yeah. No, because you could see it that way. Uh if you're faking it, you don't really even know what you're what you're aspiring to.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Well, and they say to see it is to be it, to see it is to believe it. So I think it's just an easier way for our brains to work.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Um well, it's very empowering, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

So you work with a lot of new instructors. Um, how does this how does this apply to them?

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Uh so new instructors, I enjoy so much because I still remember being a new instructor. I hope I I hope I always do, but and I think I will. But like I remember what it's like to just go.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

You have that energy. I I think you I think you will.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

I you uh, you know, like you have so much information, it's kind of overwhelming. And you also are seeing how your teachers teach and you're trying to teach like them. But actually, if you can just really hone in on being a new teacher, I think you'll connect with your clients in a different way because you're in a beginning, they're in a beginning. And so for new teachers, it's really like, let's take away all the rules. Because there's a lot of rules in Palais, no matter if you're classic or contemporary, there are a lot of rules.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Right, take the rules out.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

And uh, I think this is where Jay Grimes gave me so much permission was just to like stop trying to fix this body. That's not your job. He said to me, he said, he said to me a lot of people, but like felt I don't mind to take it like it was only to me. It was to a lot of people, which is teachers talk too much. The body actually teaches itself, and our job as instructors is to help, is to pick exercises for that body. And so if and that's hard for new teachers because, like, but these are the rules, and I've got to do these things in class, and I've got to touch this many people, and I and it's like get rid of all of that and just watch what do they need? And getting them back into that curiosity state versus like I've gotta be like, I gotta know what it is. No, be curious. If you are curious in every class or every session, you connect with people in a way that they they need. They didn't even know they needed it, but they need and they want. And it actually, it actually takes away all this like us versus them. Like to me, you are a teacher in a studio, or but you're not, you don't know them better than they know themselves. You know the exercises and how they should look and how they should be, but they know them. And our job is to help them know themselves even more. So my favorite thing is just like get zip your lips, watch their body, and feel what it's like to be them.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Right. Well, there's so much there to unpack. So, so, so um, zip your lips. Um, yeah, I mean, listen, it's so funny because we're both talkers, but like it was so guilty. But I'm so guilty of over talking in the beginning and feeling this responsibility. These clients, you know, your client walks in the door and they're like, oh, well, I'm feeling this, I'm feeling this, and you know, uh, this hurts and that hurts. And you do, you fall into okay, well, I can help that, I can help that, I can help them. But ultimately, honestly, if you move them, the movement is actually going to teach and help that body more than any words. Yeah. Um uh and and you you're you're fond of saying, follow people's questions. Yeah, follow people's questions. Yeah. Uh that's what comes out more than anything in a session, isn't it? Is if you actually just step out of the way, they're gonna tell you, they're gonna ask you.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Especially if you set the stage for it. So, and you said, like, I've got this problem, I've got this problem. Like, people do come to us with like a laundry list and we're like, I can fix them. You know, I think a lot of us became Polaris instructors because we wanted to fix something, you know, like when to fix our life or when I fix other people.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

But it felt like a really um, I don't want to say powerful, but it it felt like a like a like a true service. Yeah. If you could fix somebody. Yeah, right. And instead of offering. Like I keep saying, no, we're offering, we're making offerings.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Well, I think so. First of all, the questions that clients come to you with, that's what's on their mind. Yeah. And we don't get to choose why people start Pilates. And I think this is where a lot of teachers with good intentions mess up. You know, I was a teacher in LA for a long time. I didn't have weight loss on my website. The number of people who came to me for weight loss is like all of them, every single person. Every single one, except for my NFL players, every single one, right? So for me to shame them or make them feel bad that that's a goal is the worst thing to do. Cause they are coming. This is the question they have. Now, to be um not truthful would be also the worst thing. So it's like, how can I be honest about where my role is in that journey? Right. What is the role of what we're gonna do here in that journey? Here's what I can do, here's what I can't do. I understand that that's a goal you have. I'm not here to take that away from you, but let's move your body and let's see what's going on. And then going, okay, so here's what I'm seeing in your body, which is an obstacle in the journey that you have. Right. Right? Your hips are in out of balance where you're doing this, that's probably why walking doesn't feel good. It's part of the journey. So, how do I? So, paying attention to people, why they come, what questions they have. And I know for some teachers it gets so annoying. Some people, my husband, when he takes a session, the number of questions he asked me, why am I doing this? What is this for? But it's never never trained.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

It's really amazing you're still married because you're not really shouldn't train your spell.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

True, true, truthfully, he the flashcards are his now new teacher. Like, here is your order and go do your workout. But but his questions made me understand what he was focused on, what was he thinking about? And if you can actually follow their questions, then you can understand how to get them to buy in. Because let's be honest, Pilates takes a while to like, yes, I fell in love in the first session.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Not everybody, you're not everybody.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

No, I had a client who came for two years with his wife, hating it every single week.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

Oh, fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

And then one day his wife couldn't come and I was like, Oh, did you want to cancel? I was like, Well, I'm gonna come. And I said, You're gonna come. Tell me why you're coming now, all of a sudden on your own. He goes, I'm taller than all of my friends. I'm taller than all of my friends. That's his motivation. Uh-huh. So for me as a teacher, I have to tap into that. I'm yes, I might see that his right shoulder needs some help. He doesn't care. He cares about being taller than all of his friends. And so I think for teachers, following their questions really lets you in on how do we get this person to be motivated enough to be consistent, whether or not it's coming to the studio four times a week or just them doing police at home on their own. We have to follow what they care about.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Um, going into the beginner's mindset, that that could be overwhelming. Yeah. Right? The beginner teacher's mindset, like, oh my, you know, follow them. Like I have these rules, I have these rules, and now you're telling me to follow them. And do I, what do I do with my rules? And and and how much do I talk, or do I not talk, or do I stand to the side? Like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of sort of self, suddenly, like, like you know, what's the word I'm looking for when you're just suddenly so aware of every little thing you're doing and saying, right? Um, what's what what's some of your advice to the beginner Pilates instructor? Uh what's like like the best part about working with the beginner and and what's some of the like more challenging.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Like a beginner client. Yeah. Oh, I love beginner clients.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

You're a beginner Pilates instructor.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

So I'm plies instructor. Okay. So a beginner applies instructor. First of all, make mistakes. Like just follow the rules and see what happens. Right. Like, you do need to know, like, um, boundaries are a great thing. You know, they when you have here's the fence, and you can do whatever you want in the fence, it you actually can be really creative. You can do a lot. When there's no fence, it does feel a little wild. So I think, you know, that that that saying, like everything in moderation. Is a little that's including moderation, like, right? Like, uh, so um, but I think when you're new, like follow the follow the rules and then notice where you're stuck. Notice where you feel like the rule doesn't apply, or where you're like, I this doesn't make sense to me. And you'll know it in your body. Like in your body, you're like, that doesn't make sense. I remember my first teacher trainer saying, just say what I say, because it works. And I've been teaching a long time and it it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

I can't even imagine saying that.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

I know. And then I like taught a body who's never been applied to you before, and I said what the teacher said, and like the person didn't do it, do any of the things. I was like, that's a weird, like that's a I guess that's what I said. Like, was like pull your knees into your chest, and they like cross their ankles and grab their feet, and I was like, sort of kinda, yeah. The knees are in her chest, but they're not the heels aren't together, the toes aren't apart, like all the things. And I was like, and so I realized, like, you know, you got you gotta start somewhere, and and the and the people who put the rules in place had good intentions, right? But then you have to follow like what works for you, finding your own voice. You will talk too much, and then you won't talk enough, and you'll find out what what makes sense. One of the best things you can do. I tell people, put on a we have the technology apps today, they're free. Put on a transcription tool and put it in your pocket and teach. Oh what a great idea. Look, ask the transcription tool, like what words did I say the most? Notice how many times you say good. Yeah, now we're gonna. Yeah, I want you to. Notice how many times you count for people, right? Notice how many times you tell people to breathe. Guess what? I mean, there are exercises that have an actual breath to it. When people are new, teaching them when to breathe and the exercise and the rhythm and and then they and then you're correcting them. It's too much information and alignment. That's where a lot of new teachers also they're like, I gotta get all this stuff out. And the reality is, is like they have to come back.

unknown 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Like if they don't come back, we can't actually correct or in air quotes fix anything. So, how can we give them enough to uh feel excited, feel like they had some um achievement, some accomplishment, and be curious enough themselves to want to come back. And that means you you're gonna have to let them uh move a little ugly. It's not gonna be so pretty. It won't be synchronized Pilates, it'll be in their body, but that's gonna tell you a lot. And then, you know, so be but I would just say make all the mistakes and then you'll figure it out. Right. Trust yourself. I think that's it.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

You said Jay Grimes gave you permission. Yeah, permission is what it's out. What I'm hearing from you, it's permission for it not to always be pretty, always be safe, but not pretty. Yeah. Um uh and you're gonna pick an exercise and it's gonna go horrible, and you're gonna go horribly.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

Well, that's not how I expect. And you go, okay, moving on, you know, like you know?

SPEAKER_00 34:53

That wasn't the experience I hoped to cultivate. Yeah. Um uh so so every time sort of you unpack this, uh it uh it strikes me a little bit more that um what you're what you're what you're really trying to tease out for people is is you're empowering them to find their voice inside of this this bigger thing that is Pilates. Yeah. And let go, right? At the same time, let go of sort of these expectations that or that people put on themselves.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

I think so. I think I think teachers have way too many expectations on themselves, and then they they say, well, the clients expect X, Y, and Z.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Well, they might. They might, but they uh they they're they're they're they're coming in and they're saying, Hey, give me a Pilates experience.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Yeah. I think I think I've had people give me some crazy expectations before, and you can listen to and go, I I'm okay. Here's here's what you can expect. Like, I think honesty goes a long way. I think letting people tell me, I need my posture to look like this by my wedding date, which is in three months, and me going, okay, yeah, how much time are you able to commit to that?

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Right. That this is a life like a lifestyle.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

Yeah, I think it's by so I do think that um, you know, we we worry that the clients are expecting something sooner than we can provide it. But this is where we as a teacher need to actually, hey, they're asking questions, we have to ask questions. Yeah, ask them. Ask them where that what where what what limitations they feel in their body, ask them what they want, ask them when they are expecting to feel this, and then be honest with them about what that is. Yeah, it's a you develop a relationship. This is a co-working experience. Like, yes, you are the teacher with these rules that you've been given, but also there, there's responsibility on both sides. My, I have responsibility to them to provide the session that I think based on what they've told me and what I can see at this point that I can do, but they have responsibility for their themselves as well. And I think as teachers, we're often taking the responsibility off of them and doing everything for them. We're counting, we're breathing, we're correcting, we're doing all these things. And in it's a two-way street. We have to meet together. Right. Um, the industry's changed.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Just a little bit, right?

SPEAKER_00 37:12

The industry's changed, right? Um, I I mean, I think we we got together at the um, I boy, I want to say body, mind, spirit, that was a very, very long time ago. Um, at Momentum Fest. Yes. Right after COVID. Yes. And we saw this real sort of shift. Um, classes predominating over privates and semi-privates, um, instructors being newer, you know, in more sort of just just generally enthusiastic about embracing a lot of what you're talking about. Um, what how the the newer instructor, the uh the the the class instructor, how does that differ from sort of those days when you walked into a studio in LA?

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Well So it's it's this is interesting, right? Because I can see this from both parties. Like I see it from the business owner who's got to get the teachers ready to go as quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Well, and then I that's the next thing I want to talk about is the business of this.

SPEAKER_02 38:14

So, and I see these teachers who are so enthusiastic, and you never want to dampen the enthusiasm because like, oh we we Joy, you and I both have seen people who start off with such bright and then someone told them something that like made them. Oh, and then they're devastating. It's devastating.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

And they carry it, they can't do they it's in their head all the time, even if they like do it's always their I I I think that is one of the responsibility of sort of our generation of teachers is to remember that people carry as teacher, they carry what we say.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Yeah, and like and that doesn't mean that we won't unintentionally say something and like whatever it happens, so like I don't want to put pressure on people, but so I think like that enthusiasm is real and they don't know that they were trained maybe too fast, right? They don't know that they um that they might they might have some missing links to their education. And I think that it's not about us telling them that something's missing, it's about uh encouraging them to want to come over to this party.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 39:13

How do we make it?

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Continually encourage the curiosity to go deeper. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

So how do we invite them in? How do we make it fun? Yeah. How do we, you know, and like I've had so many teachers go, but I was taught to do it like this. And I was like, well, which one do you like in your body? Oh, I like this one. Great. Keep the other one because it might be perfect for somebody else. So just because I because the way I taught it to you is different and you're like, this is different than I learned, doesn't mean that the other stuff is something you throw out.

unknown 39:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

You actually just have something else in your tool. So I do think it's a part of us needs to uh not look at them going, oh my God, they're so young and they don't have, they don't have the hours. And like, you know, I've heard horror stories of people being taught out of a manual where the person just read the manual or like I love that my videos are helping people pass their tests. I am shocked by how many schools of thought my videos help people's tests. So like I'm always like, that's interesting. Like, you know, but uh it's let's how do we cultivate that curiosity so that it continues the learning? Because that's what makes them great teachers. Right. Now, where I have also seen that is so many teachers don't feel don't feel comfortable teaching private sessions.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

They feel more comfortable teaching classes, teaching classes, which is so funny to me because back in the day, I would have killed for a private over a crowd. Right, right, right. 30 faces looking at me. Yeah, it it it was it's like totally fluff, you know, flipped in so many ways in that regard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Yeah. So I think I think the reason they don't feel comfortable teaching a private session is because they actually have to teach that box.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

It's it's an intimacy, I think. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:43

It's it is. And so, um, so I I do think that like how can we all make sure that they we keep their enthusiasm and let it guide towards continuing to learn and to find their voice and to find themselves. And then how as business owners do we do it so we can create safe teachers as in a in a capacity that allows them to teach and then also they have to make money and this is investment. Like, I get it. Like I remember I remember my first training was 600 hours and I had to be done in nine months. I had a full-time job, you know? And so, like, I mean, I had to get those hours, I had to do it. So I understand both sides of it. I do think that um we owe people enough to say this is the beginning, and you're gonna find your voice and follow the people that make you feel seen, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Oh, that's great advice. Thank you to Balanced Body for sponsoring this episode. For over 50 years, Balanced Body has been part of the Pilates story, working alongside instructors, studios, and educators to refine equipment and enhance the Pilates experience. Our reformers, chairs, barrels, and accessories are trusted in studios, gyms, and home practice spaces around the world. Built for daily use, real bodies, and long-term growth, balanced body equipment is designed with the customer at the center. Learn more at Pilates.com. I I I hear you. I think um, you know, uh as one of the one of the question marks for me is when we talk about belonging, self-advocacy advocacy, self-efficacy, um, curiosity, empathy, right? Um part of that is as you're saying, we should see them where they're at and not disparage where they are, yeah, but instead also just just continue to open other doors and paths that can can fill in gaps. Because I think, you know, whether you're teaching classes or privates, at some point everyone gets to that that that level of, well, what's next? What else do I want to teach? This has been successful so far. What more do I want to offer? Or this hasn't been successful. Maybe there's something I need to find out. Yeah. Um, but how do we not stomp somebody's, somebody's like zeal for it and instead just just say, look, these are all the different different paths that are open to you. I think that's something that you do particularly well.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Um, so the many ways in which you reach the audience, whether it's a podcast, whether it's your videos, whether it's the flashcards, you're diversified to meet people where they're at and to just sort of like, hmm, what's what's next?

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Yeah. Thanks. I think like you know, if we say Pilates meets you where you are, true Pilates, right? Whatever, whatever the definition is, it's supposed to meet you where you are. Joe made sure that your workout did that. And I think that that includes everything, right? Includes those teachers. Some people can't afford any educat education. I have thousands of YouTube videos. They are free. Yes, you have to watch the commercials, but like they're there, right? But oh, I can invest a little bit more. For the price of the commercials, yeah, you can invest a little bit more. And I think that's where you know, um those of us who are Seeing these young, enthusiastic teachers who, you know, um are getting their moves from Instagram. Um, and that's not because that's what they think is the right thing to do, it's because it's what's there. It's what's accessible. It's where it's so how do we go into the places they're at? This is, by the way, the same as business. If you want to be teaching pre-postnatal women, but you're only going to the corporate offices, you're, you know what I mean? You have to, you, whoever you're trying to impact in this world, you have to meet them where they are and guide them over here. You know, so I uh uh I am like a reluctant social media user. I can't wait to not ever have denies.

SPEAKER_00 44:38

I know, but just stop. Did everybody hear Leslie Logan said she is a reluctant social media user? I'm reluctant you am.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

See that older millennial. Like I am, I remember dialed up. I remember a little bit of private time, you know. Like I remember having to like public AOL. Oh my gosh. Um you could have paid for that. I didn't have that. Like I so I think we have to meet people where they are and guide them to where they where we want them to be. And you guide people through empowering them and making them feel good. Like that's what happens. There's only a few people who like a shameful experience to success. Most people want to feel like they're loved and seen.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Um, okay, so that's great advice to the new instructor. It's also great advice. Uh it's great advice to the for the new instructor on the learning side. It's also great advice for the new instructor on the client side. Yeah. Right. Because so much of empowering your client isn't actually in knowing all the things. It's seeing them, meeting them where they're at, and giving them something to aspire toward. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

I had a client email me. I was a new teacher. Um, I got an email. She said, Hey, here's all the things wrong with me. I have a wrist plate, I have like one third of long missing, I have these things. I like a long list. And I just wrote back, she's like, Do you think you can help me? And I said, I can help you if you want it. I'm h I I none of these things scare me. If you're ready to move, I here's what I have to offer you. Right. And she came in and she repeated all the things that are wrong with her. And I said, So tell me what, like, how do you want to feel when you leave? Tell me, like, what why are what what are you what are your expectations from today? Right. And that that's a big question to ask someone. Sometimes they don't know. And she's like, Well, I know I need to work out and I don't want to get hurt. And I said, Great.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Well, what a great answer. Many people don't know. Yeah. They really just know what's wrong with them.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

Yes. Right? Yeah. And so, and that might be all that they can tell you. I just know these things are wrong. It's like, okay, well, then how, how do you like what is what is your expectations from leaving here today? Like, what do you want from today? And they might not know. It's like, I also say, you don't have to know. But if it comes to you while we're moving, let me know. And I also say, here's the deal, I don't know what it's like to be in your body. So if anything doesn't feel right, you can let me know. Right? Just let me know. Because I don't know what it's like to have a metal plate in my wrist. And I don't know what it's like to have had lung surgery or to have a collapse. I don't know these things. So I'm just needing you to tell me if you're feeling a little bit fear. And I think that that just giving people that is really a nice permission slip. And you can do this in a class. I say when I'm before I teach a class, I say it is brave and courageous to replace what you can't do yet with something you can do. So for class, right? I have a class plan of some sort. Like if I say something and you're like, nah, today, you can replace it with anything we've already done. So say that, say that again. It is brave and courageous to replace what you can't do yet with something that you can. You can replace it with anything we've already done.

unknown 47:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

And like what happens is people, I'll see people in a class start an exercise and go, and then I'm like, remember, you can do anything that you all we've already done. And then they replace it. And guess what we're doing? We're actually teaching them responsibility and autonomy. And I believe, and I know that you do, I believe Pilates helps you in all aspects of life. Yes. If in your Pilates class you are discovering, oh, I can't do that, but I can do this. If you're teaching your brain to do that in Pilates, guess what happens? You're gonna do it in life. No, I can't do that. What can I do? Like, I do believe that we are teaching people that mind-body connection that allows them to apply it to other things. Oh, this is my exercise. This is my modification, you're right. Like, I think that's really important. I think we have a powerful thing that we can do.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

Right. Well, and and these are things for instructors that are not necessarily in teacher training programs, right? These are things through experience, through learning, through uh advocacy, through empowerment that they pick up along the way. And that's why so much of your message now becomes so important. Thanks. I mean, it's it's it's really it's really fascinating to to be seeing the new instructor sort of take wing.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Um, and and they could take wing out of like with a lot of fear of what they should be doing, or they can be empowered. Um and I I just think empowerment is everything.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

I I feel like look, I I was raised by parents who like, you know, they had the the boomer parents and the World War II parents, and like everything is like these structured rules and do what I say, not what I do, and that whole thing. And we know better now, right? We know that it's not about lying to people. It's not about that at all. It's just about like showing them, like, hey, look what you did today. Like, this goes for new teachers or new clients, like letting people know, oh my God, look at you just did that. You couldn't do that last week. I think a lot of times, and I think this is because of all the rules these teachers are trying to keep in that I have to count, I have to have this many arm exercises, I have to have this, I have my music.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

You know, but the counting in Pilates is really funny. Everybody feels like I have to count, but then nobody counts right.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

No one counts right.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

We're gonna right, we're at 75, 80. It's a great book.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

It's like the I said you were gonna do four. There's like the disc book, right? Like people are these different colors. You will have there's a whatever color means the people are like the counters, like they know when the class is supposed to start. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Find those people. I've say I have literally said this for as long as I've been teaching. I've never counted to 100. I don't intend to today. So someone in here is going to count. We're all gonna trust them. And then when they're done, we're done. Like that's just and by the way, the hundred takes at least a minute. So, like, we're here for a minute, right? Like, but I think um, I think that there's but peep, but teachers feel like this is their pressure. They have to do all these things. But I really do think that it's more important that we are reminding the client and being putting ourselves in a place where present enough to be able to tell a client you didn't do that last week and you did it today. Right. We that's that's our job, being present enough to let them know how far they've come because they can't see themselves. Pay attention.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Yeah, pay attention. Uh it's part of creating a sense of belonging, right, for your client. You're if they know you're paying attention to them, that you care, that you're following, like that, that's that's even more empowering than whatever it is, the thing that they didn't do last time that they can do now. Yeah. Um, all right, let's cycle back to Leslie Logan. Because I actually think so much of your approach, um, we talk about accessibility, right? Right now, students find YouTube very YouTube accessible, social media accessible. They're gonna, they're they're sort of parroting back what they're seeing. Um uh we also talked a little bit about the idea of maybe people don't feel comfortable being in front of a room, you know, that I almost I hate to use the imposter syndrome because but everybody has it at some point.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Yeah. Um, which by the way, if you're a new teacher, it's a sign you're not a narcissistic person. It's a sign that you are a beginner.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

Which is which is lovely. But one of the first things you said to me today was like, you know, you were in your jewelry drop job, you were at school, and you always sort of felt like you were not comfortable in your own skin. It was once you found Pilates and that sort of body-mind connection that you sort of dropped into yourself. Um, what's some advice you would give to someone who just feels different, that they don't belong, that they they don't see, they don't, they don't know how to find that space for themselves.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Yeah, I mean, I see you, and it it's hard. I think it's really hard. Um, I think the easy for me thing to say, the easy thing for me to say is like create your own thing. And that is also the thing you want to do. But that's what you did, right? I mean that but that but also like you might not feel like you're ready to do that, but I will say, like I remember my first several years of teaching trying to belong to the different groups. Oh, I'm in the classical group, right? But I'm not a dancer, and I wasn't trained by Romana herself. And so, like, and that mattered back when I started that mattered back then. And um, there are people today who will happily say in a comment that I'm not a classical teacher, okay, whatever. I but like I remembered that would affect me back then. So I just want to say if like that's how you feel, you have to feel all of your feelings. And then I would just dream up the space that you want to be in. What would it look like if you felt like you belonged? Who's invited? How does who are you helping? Like, I I love that the work that I have done in this world helps so many people. I also know that I'm not for everybody, and I can't be. Like, that's just not a thing, right? Like it's not a real thing. But I I can be the best at who I am for and being authentic, and I owe those people to be my authentic self. So I would just say, like, really, really listen to your feelings and and figure it out. And then what would you create? What would that look like? Because what might happen in dreaming it up and journaling, however you do it, you might actually discover that it does exist.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

There is a space, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:39

And you just didn't know it yet. Or you might create your own thing. And I I will say, like, sometimes I still don't feel like I belong to this industry. I know I belong in what I've created, and I love that I'm invited in to a lot of spaces. But sometimes I'm in those spaces going, how did I get here?

SPEAKER_00 53:57

That's interesting. So, so you um to paraphrase, you've you've created something, you love what you've created, but you don't, it doesn't always mean you walk into every place you're in and you think, I belong here.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

No, I know I belong, I know, I know who I am, I know I belong in this body, and I know I belong in the things I've created. But when I am brought into spaces, there are always moments going like like I'll a momentum fest. The very, very first one was before COVID. And my husband was micing me up, he was helping out Jessica and the team, and so he's micing me up. I was like, Is this mic on? And he goes, uh no. And I said, Um, I'm I I don't I'm really nervous right now. I'm not really sure. Like I don't think I don't know that I can do this. There's like eight, like 60 people in this class. The whole front row was a bunch of my friends from the fitness world, but they've never done Pilates before. The next row was like the social media Pilates icons of the time there to support me. They weren't there for nefarious reasons. And then there's a ton of people who think they know what I'm going to do, right? And so I just had this moment going, what if I'm not what any of these people wanted? Right. And he goes, Thankfully for him, he and this is something that I say to people also that he said, I need to hear, which is like, you're just gonna do what you always do. How is this any different? And that's so so I'll just say, like, I think people look at you or myself or some of these other people on the pod and go, oh, they have it all together. No, in a lot of spaces, I have a moment going, okay, someone thought I could do this. I know I can do that. You just have to do it. And I will just say, like, I think that's a sign of being present. Caring means you care, right? The expo was recently, and there's 90 people in my mat class, and my carry samper was right there. And I'm like, oh my God, like the person who like gave me a stage at one point is now here, and there's 90 people. And like, do these people are they here because they wanted to be, or just because this is what was like you know, there's all these different things that go through your head, right? And then you you can only be yourself. And I think that that's one of the hardest things for a lot of new teachers to figure out is like, but I would say take the time. Who are you?

SPEAKER_00 56:06

Who are you?

SPEAKER_02 56:07

Who are you? And I I do know who I am, I do know that I put on a fun class, and I do know that I care about the method and the way that I teach it, and I'm gonna give you that. And some people might leave that room going, that was the worst class I've ever taken. And a ton of people say that was amazing. And you have to follow the people who said it was amazing. Yes, constructive criticism. I would love to know what they gotta listen. So you gotta listen, but also like Brene Brown said this on a podcast years ago. When I could not afford business coaching, I like used podcasts as a business coach. And she said, on a piece of paper, I have the five people whose opinions of me matter, and they know. And they need to know because that means you weight their opinion differently, right? So, yes, you need to hear the information of the people who didn't like you. Oh, it was too fast, it was too this, it was too that. But then you also have to filter that through like what is what is my intention and what is what what is my goal here? And if people are like, oh, she just taught the order, well, guess what? I'm always gonna do that. Yeah, yeah. That's a rely, you know. So that feedback isn't helpful for me. But but I think like also when people say what they love about your class, oh, I love that class. I would even follow up new teachers. What was your favorite part? Because if you can successfully again, ask questions. What was their favorite exercise? Yeah. What you know, because here's the other thing. When they when they have a favorite exercise, when they know what that is, it helps them with retention because they're gonna remember the name of that exercise. They're gonna come back, but you're also gonna know, oh, I didn't like this. Why? Don't just like go, oh God, I'll never teach that one again. No, why didn't you like it? I couldn't do it. Okay, that's I can help with that, right? Like, oh, it hurt my neck. Okay, why would it hurt her neck? It shouldn't hurt her neck. Like, those are different things I think we can actually use to make ourselves better.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

All right. So uh the road to empowerment, ask questions. Yeah, show up as you. Yeah, yeah. Um uh see or uh dream or or um ideate on who you want to become, um, but own the space you're in. Yeah. Uh uh and self-care. Those are those are the messages I'm getting from you. Yeah. So none of it has to do with exactly where the arms should be for the hundred.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

No, yeah, and uh wherever they are. Uh but like self-care, this is for the new teachers. The worst thing you can do is lose your Pilai's practice. Uh it happens. It happens so fast. It's happened so fast. I remember, I remember how much I had to do Pilai's before I went into a training. I remember how much I did Piles while I was on the training. And I remember getting a job and I had the jewelry store job. Like that was my salaried income. So I was actually teaching Monday, Wednesday, Friday from 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. at the gym. And then I would drive across town to open the store either at 9:30, clock in and work. And then the other two days a week, I actually would get to the store early and then close early and do two evenings. And I remember going, I have where am I gonna do my practice? How does that going to work? And I saw within the first month of me teaching, and all these clients are coming in, my practice was going to go away. And I was just like, Well, then how I this was supposed to pay for my Pilates hobby. It wasn't supposed to listen.

SPEAKER_00 59:22

I mean, I'm so guilty as charged. My clients would leave and they'd be like, I feel great. And I'm like, Oh, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

And I will say, like, we will the world will lose greater, great teachers. And um, you know, I remember hearing if you're bored, your clients are bored. And I think one of the best sources of inspiration for me is my own practice because I you can never get bored in your body, like, whoa, why did my foot just do that? Yeah, yeah. That's so weird. That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

No, no, it's it's so true. And it's yeah, I think I think I think we have to say that loud and clear, like, like practice, practice. Well, it's a practice, too.

SPEAKER_02 59:56

And also the number of of teachers who ne don't ever do it by themselves. They always have someone's voice in their head. And but trust me, look, I love do you want to take my classes? I love teaching you, I love all of that. I also think that you should listen to the voice in your own head.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:12

Yeah. And the experience that you're having.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

Well, we call it a mind-body connection, but we're never letting their mind be in their body, and I think we need to. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Leslie. It's it's it's just, you know, I've been looking forward to this. Um, it's always, it's always wonderful to share space with you. Um, okay, I'm gonna ask you a few rapid-fire questions. Let's do it. Okay, what is your definition of Pilates?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:33

It's a mind-body movement practice that balances our imbalances.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

What's your favorite piece of Pilates equipment, big or small, and why? The spine corrector.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

Because you can do anything. I I know I led to at the beginning. Here's the deal it's been really hard for me to hone in on a piece of equipment, but like anyone can buy it. It's not an expensive piece. It doesn't take you can hang it on a wall. Like, all these people are trying to fit a reformer under their bed. A spine corrector can hang on your wall, can leave like it's so and it has so many benefits. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

Perfect. I I I think it's the it's a universal tool. Everybody should have one. Um, at least one. What's one misunderstanding about either Pilates or your profession that you wish more people understood?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:16

Ugh. Um, there's so many, but really that they're I can't believe we're still having to define what a Pilates body is. Like that just really pisses me off. Like, if you have a body, then you it can do Pilates, and you might have to find it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

If you have a body, it can do Pilates.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Yeah, you might have to find the right the my Pilates method for you, but like that, so that's one I wish we could just keep shouting from the rooftops, or at least not have to anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

That's fantastic. Okay. Um, what's one habit that you do religiously that complements your Pilates practice?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:50

So I lift weights four days a week. Why is that important? So for me, it actually tells me where I have where I where I need to go in my Pilates practice. Oh, that bothered my knee. Oh, my my ankle is rolling in there. Like, oh, this is happening. And I use my Pilates practice to kind of guide those imbalances. Um, also as a hypermobile body, like the hanging pull-ups are like the hardest thing for me. And I just want to on someday my life do a pull-up in this body uh unassisted. And so for me, the weights actually can help me with some of the more strength-based Pilates moves that my flexibility is not helpful.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

Yeah. More connect, I mean, not only will it, you know, build muscle mass, but more connectivity is what I'm hearing you say. Um, so that's good. So I thought you were gonna say your plunge, but we've already we've already explored. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

You think no, that is that is uh it's on its own.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

All right. So uh some recommendations, one to three books or podcasts you recommend to our listeners.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:47

So The Big Leap by Hay Hendricks will change your life. It's all about discovering how you are limiting yourself, the tendencies you have. Maybe it's self-deprecation, maybe it's worry, maybe it's uh getting sick or causing fights. Uh, it'll it will change your life. I read it every year. It's so great. Um, and since one recommendation recommendations, he was on my podcast, episode 400. So, like, that is like those two things. The Contrology Handbook by Sany Shimoda is right next to you if you want a Pilates recommendation. I think whether you're a client or a teacher, it is, I mean, she wrote it for the student, right? Like, it is really helpful to understand what it is we're doing here and the autonomy that's required. Um, and breathe by James Nestor. My goodness. Like, there's so much information about how to breathe. And like, uh whether you're a teacher or a student, you it's like will change your life, I think. So um not your expectations. No, no, no. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:44

Uh so we actually had James Nestor uh at an event of ours. Stop right now. Yes, I I am but you know, uh I something I've always thought about you, which is you're you're this um you're this mix of Pilates teachers slash, I don't, you know, I hate to say guru, but you've got that guru quality to you. Um and and business coach, um you know, sort of inspirational coach, what Brene Brown, I guess, is to psychology and sociology and Priya Parker, the art of gathering, like yeah, that's she's an influence to me. Yeah, so I mean, is that how you see yourself? How do you see yourself? What what is your business?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:29

I think I'm an ultimate connector.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

You're a connector.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

I'm a connector. I think that's really like that's what I am. Um if people think I'm a guru, that's cool. Um, it's not what I set out to do. So um guru's a funny word.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

I mean, it's a funny word. But I think about gurus is personality, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:49

You know, I I think my personality helps make people feel like they are welcome to the party. You know, I do think that that's fun about me, but I I definitely I I was talking to some people about this week about like what happens when this is diff when we're done, right? Like when I'm done, when we've closed the doors and like I'm like that's it. Like I do wanna what do I want to be known for? And I think I want to be known for that woman who helped people connect to themselves and each other uh in a unique way, who was once known in a niche industry for a while. Like that's what I I hope to do. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:29

There's a there's a book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and um in it he writes uh if you sort of want to find your success, I'm paraphrasing wildly here. If you want to find your success, uh do something that you're good at, but find the niche inside of it. So it's almost like you found the niche inside of a niche. I think so. Um because really uh what what you're what you're doing and bringing and building um i is is quite unique in this particular industry.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:58

Do you think you'll expand beyond Pilates?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

I don't know. I think I'm I have some work to do in the industry that I I have some I have some goals and ideas that like an itch I haven't scratched that I'm that I want to do you want to share it here I cannot I I will come back when I try here's the deal really what it is uh some people do know and it's there's two there's two things I haven't done that I know I could do and I could do it in a way that is not being done right now in this industry and I want to do those things and um uh I will do them and I will see how that goes. But I think after that, my hope is that I am someone who chases the summer around the world and provides advice when people remember who she was and what she knows. Like I'm happy like I'm an open book and happy to share. But I think um I think once once I have I feel like I've achieved so much in this industry, I'm so grateful every single day for what I get to do and I still get to do it and not done today, no one freak out, like you know, I'm only 43. But I do see that like there'll be a time when I just am retired. Yeah. And I I can't wait for that. I really I I I think that it's an interesting thing for people to understand. Like, I could be so in love and obsessed with what I get to do every single day, and I still have more to do. And there'll be a day when I actually will hang up the magic circle. And you know, instead of hanging your hat up, you're gonna hang up the back. Hang up the magic circle. I will still have all my equipment, but like I will, I, you know, I will move on to something else. But I don't know. Uh when I move on to something else, I will be learn how to be a retired person.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:37

Learn how to be a retired person. Yeah. All right. Um Leslie Logan, I can't thank you enough. Is you sure you don't want to tell us what those two things are?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

Oh my God. I I you I oh my god, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

Okay. All right. But you promise, you promise you'll come back. Oh, wait, I gotta, uh, here's the deal.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:00

I I think there's a space for me to create a teacher training program for new teachers that allows them to be analytical people. And of course we'll have a classical lens because that's my world, but that's what I'm cultivating in this moment. Um it won't, it'll be, you know, I won't be teaching it, but it will be something I can guide people through. Um, because I want I want the impact on this world to be bigger than what I can do. So there's that, and I wanna open a studio that will be studios in my my my vision that will allow teachers and students to have responsibility and autonomy over their practice. I think that that's what the world needs. So those are things I'm working on. When they'll happen. I don't know, but I I feel like put it out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

What did you just say? You gotta dream it. You gotta do it. We are being us how we see it.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

We are being us how we see it in this moment on the calls I'm having this week. But like, I don't know when those things will happen. So just like, you know, get on a wait list. But I will I will say, like, those are two scratches, those two itches I need to scratch before I can say I've done all that I want to do here.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:09

Fantastic. All right, we started with your morning ritual. What's your evening ritual?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

Oh, um, my husband and I don't have a TV, but we have dinner together and we watch a show together every night for dinner, and then we walk our dog under the stars. You can see stars in Vegas, under the stars of Vegas with the skylight, and we just enjoy what the night is. And then um, nighttime routine, skincare is the best thing you can do for yourself, everyone. Um, and um uh I I have uh uh some things I have red lights that I do before I go to bed, and then I try to get the best night's sleep I can because your best morning starts the night before, as they say. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think like tonight I will uh go home, walk the dog, and like you kind of end it with the people that why am I doing all this? It's so I can be with my dog and my husband and you know, be in our space. Um, I do think uh you're like for the people who are Pilates professionals, it's really easy for this job to be L day, every day. All day, every day. And I will highly recommend like have things that are not Pilates and you'll discover the creativity we talked about and also a little bit more about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:20

Fantastic. All right, Leslie Logan, thank you for joining me.

unknown 1:10:23

Oh my god, I'm not gonna go.