The Anatomy & Physiology of Pilates

What happens when therapeutic Pilates meets physical therapy, evidence-based practice, and decades of advanced movement education? Joy Puleo sits down with Chrissy Romani-Ruby—Educational Director of PHI Pilates, PT, D.Ed, MPT, ATC, NCPT—and Cassie Ruby-Nemec, NCPT, DPT, and Board Certified Orthopaedic Clinical Specialist, for a thoughtful conversation on the powerful relationship between clinical Pilates and physical rehabilitation.

Learn how Pilates for physical therapy accelerates patient recovery, why deep anatomical knowledge matters for every Pilates teacher, and how movement professionals can become more effective communicators through precise Pilates cueing and instruction. Chrissy and Cassy discuss the vital importance of biomechanics, how to evaluate peer-reviewed research, and why high-quality Pilates continuing education is essential in an ever-evolving wellness industry.

Unpacking the pitfalls of "meaningless movement" and examining the risks of becoming too mechanical in your teaching style, this episode offers practical insights for Pilates instructors, physical therapists, and movement educators who want to teach with greater clinical clarity, purpose, and impact.

Tune in for an inspiring discussion on evidence-based Pilates, lifelong learning, and how sports science, communication, and human connection work together to create better rehabilitation outcomes for clients and students alike.

This episode is powered by Balanced Body®.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello and welcome to Pilates Perspectives. This is Joy, and today we have Chrissy Romani Ruby and Cassie Ruby Nemek on the anatomy and physiology of Pilates. But first, let's check in. For today's check-in, let's take some time to think about anatomy. Now, depending on your background, this can range from a very loaded term to a very sort of general nebulous idea. Regardless of where you're coming from today, I'd like for us to carve a little time and through the lens of anatomy take stock. What has been your experience in learning anatomy? Do you have a formal course? Have you pursued an advanced certification? Or have you really learned through your experience or from the people in your life? Are there areas where that education may be lacking or needs updates? Or are there areas where maybe you would like to know a little more? How might you want to pursue that information? So that's on a more academic side, but what about personally? Let's turn inward. Despite all of us having similar structures, we're all individually different. Maybe you have an injury and it's shaped the way you may think about your body, or really how your body moves or sits. Are you prone to certain muscle imbalances? Are you aware actually of your balances? Are you naturally stronger in certain places? Or do you feel like there are places where you might need some work? Now, depending on your background, your answers may range from, I don't know, to a very detailed assessment of your current fitness level, pain perception, and areas of need. Well, regardless of where you're coming from, the reality is if we just stop and pause and become a little aware, it actually goes a long way. You may not have the anatomical name for something, but you certainly know how you feel when you're doing something. So right now, in this moment, I invite you to take a second and think about where you're at, both in terms of your understanding of human anatomy in a general sense and how it applies to you with your individual body and your individual experiences. Now, if you want to go above and beyond, I'd recommend you carve out some time in the next few weeks and assess where you're at. How does your body move? How it may differ from the perception that came to your mind today. As always, I urge you to avoid putting labels of good or bad, but rather focus on the sensation of how you feel. As you may already know, feelings can be difficult or feel negative without being a bad thing. But every journey starts with the first step. And if your first step is coming from a place of awareness, then you set yourself up for success right from the very beginning. Okay, so thank you for taking that time with me. Your time is valuable, and I'm proud of you for using that time to move towards a stronger, more nuanced relationship with yourself. Today we have Chrissy Romani Ruby and Cassie Ruby Nemek, a mother and daughter Powerhouse duo based in Bethel Park, Pennsylvania. I used Powerhouse because Chrissy is the founder and owner of PHI Pilates, formerly known as the Powerhouse Institute, and PHI Pilates Japan. Chrissy Romani Ruby wears many hats as a physical therapist. She's also a nationally certified Pilates instructor. She is a former professor of exercise science and sports studies at Penn West, California, and more. Chrissy comes to us with a wealth of knowledge and experience in both Pilates and the exercise science world. Also a physical therapist and NCPT certified, Cassie has a lifelong experience in the Pilates world. She literally grew up in a Pilates studio, a board-certified orthopedic clinical specialist, doctorate of physical therapy, and a current PhD student in health education. Cassie balances academics with practical skills. You can find Cassie and Chrissy on their entirely free app, PHI Connect, which is available on the App Store and Google Play Store and has community options for both instructors and clients alike. Welcome to both of you. Hi, thank you. We're so happy to be here. So this is like a fantastic mother-daughter duo. Um we were just talking prior to going on air. Chrissy, how did you find Pilates? How did you end up here? This girl is the reason.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

So we we were teasing that actually yesterday was her birthday, and it kind of marks the time that I've spent with Pilates. I had a tough pregnancy with Cassie and gained a lot of weight and got pretty out of shape. And I had heard about this thing called Pilates. And being in Pittsburgh, it really wasn't there yet. So I went out and I found it and I used it to get back in shape and fell in love with Pilates. Now you were a physical therapist at the time. I was a physical therapist and I had been teaching fitness. I was, you know, I was at idea presenting and I was doing step aerobic slide, you know, you name it. I had done it. And then I was also a weightlifter in college. So I did a lot of powerlifting and weightlifting and things like that. And so I was really in shape before I got pregnant, which is probably why I had so much trouble getting pregnant. And then when I got pregnant, I was a fearful of miscarriages and I had had some. So I stopped doing everything for that entire pregnancy.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Wow. All right. And then Cassie, you were you were born, and uh I guess Pilates was already was already part of your family. So what's it like growing up with like Pilates in your memory from as far back as three years old?

SPEAKER_01 7:00

So I would say that I first used the Pilates equipment more to play on.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

So my sister and I growing up, I didn't know. I think it's fantastic playground equipment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Decorated the Cadillac for every holiday. I love that. Um my mom was finding scotch tape on the equipment just like this past year.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

We're like, oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

So I would say I got more serious into it when I became a teenager, and I was more so forced to actually do it because I was a ballet dancer. So my mom would get a group of my friends to come up so I would actually listen to her. And because, you know, teenagers don't want to listen to their mother. No, no, yes, they would just want to roll their eyes. Yes, yes. I got a little bit more interested. So you taught classes for her.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, I figured out that if I did a class for her entire ballet group, that she would participate. And it turned out great because she did participate and she learned. And actually, a couple of her friends that were in the groups teach for me now. Oh, fantastic. We created maybe three really good Pilates.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

We just like did you created generations now?

SPEAKER_02 8:03

I didn't know what I was doing, but it worked out.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah. Um so Cassie, you're also a physical therapist. Yes. Yes. And um what interested you what interested you in? Well, you said something interesting to me. You were a Pilates instructor first. Before I was a physical. Before you were a physical therapist. Christy, you were a physical therapist. Before I was a Pilates instructor. Before you were a Pilates instructor. Those are just, it's just very interesting to come from those two different perspectives. Um how do you think it was different for coming from physical therapy into Pilates? And it was an interesting time. It was the late 90s, early 2000s. Before we could say the word. Yeah, you couldn't say the word Pilates.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

A lot of tension, a lot of um difficulty finding a place to learn. Um and so for me, it was there was a little bit of difficulty with finding a place to train. Um, I think coming into it as a physical therapist, I sort of had this air to me that I knew it all kind of thing. A lot of times when you come out of a school, you know, I had my master's in physical therapy and oh, I know exercise, and was quickly reinformed that I didn't know it all. And I could look at things at a different perspective where it wasn't so important to know what muscle was doing what, but how to communicate that muscle doing that thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

And not even the muscle, but to communicate the movement. And even now when I teach, I try to get back to that rather saying engage your deep abdominals. I'm talking about draw your skin away from your clothes, you know, trying to give it more of a visual layman kind of style. And I found that as a physical therapist, it changed me that I cued better. I could communicate with my clients in a way that they understood. I could teach them how to stand, I could teach them how to breathe. Oh, things that uh were mentioned in physical therapy and taught to me in physical therapy school, but I wasn't taught how to communicate them to the client in a way that they could understand.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

And then you went on to become a professor. Did you bring that into your teaching to physical therapy students?

SPEAKER_02 10:17

So I actually, when I when I started at uh California University, I uh I started an exercise science and and physical therapy assistant, but they kept bringing me in and asking me to actually teach a Pilates like course. So I did get to teach an actual course. And I would say I did, especially with the physical therapy assistant students that I had, try to communicate to them that you have to be able to teach the the client in front of you that make sure you have all this great knowledge, but if you can't if you can't communicate it to your patient, it's really not going to be successful.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

So for you as a physical therapist, Pilates became one of the benefits of Pilates, it became a communication tool.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Yes, it brought it to a level that I could bring it down to anyone. I could bring it down to the client who didn't know anything at all about their body, and they could get it.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Fantastic. Take it home. They could take it home. They could take it home. Fantastic. Uh, all right, Cassie. So now you came, you you grew up inside of the studio playing around, jumping around on the on the equipment. Um, at what point did you become a Pilates instructor?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

So I started my trainings when I was just 16 years old. Um, it took me a few years to complete all of them. Um, and then throughout college, I taught a lot during college. Um, and then in physical therapy school, where Pilates really helped me was that I already had this background knowledge of how to really teach and cue exercise really well. Um, actually, a lot of my clinical instructors, they wanted me to take on the part of teaching the exercises because they would just sit there at the edge of their seat, like, oh, what is she gonna teach next? Or what what cue is she gonna give me as an idea?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

So you found your the Pilates valuable even while you were in school. Oh, there was absolutely Was there an understanding that that this movement education piece um uh was I I don't want to say I I I'm trying to say something that I don't want to discredit any other form of learning, but yes that that the movement education piece possibly is a missing piece for the physical therapy.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Yes, actually, now that you say that, I did have some friends in PT school that were biology majors. And while they really tutored me and helped me with more of the science classes, I actually tutored them and helped them with their confidence with teaching and getting in front of a patient and having the confidence to walk them through the exercises and sequencing and order and more of those visual cues.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

And now does your practice combine Pilates and physical therapy?

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Yes, yeah. So I work full time now in the Pilates studio. So I'm working more with um those that are working on their wellness. So they've already done their traditional physical therapy and now they're transitioning back into exercise. So a lot of the people I'm getting them ready to join group class and helping them build their confidence in order to.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

And Chrissy, how about for you? Are you primarily um is it a 50-50 split between Pilates and physical therapy? Can you pull them apart anymore? Um, how does that land?

SPEAKER_02 13:29

It's really hard for me to separate them. I will say that. Um, and we, you know, we are a cash-based practice, so we we label our visits as specialized uh privates and we charge more, but we will take people that have a PT script, we just don't bill insurance. Um, so a lot of times they are coming in broken, but we keep them very at very short periods of time or direct access. Um, we keep them very short periods of time in a sense of a physical therapy visit. Um, and then we bring them into like a wellness visit and try to step them down for less expense and also get them out of our schedule to be able to be with everyone. But I find like if I we we both teach classes too. And as I'm teaching a class, I can't help myself. Like someone's doing something with their footwork, and it's like, oh, oh, I have to pull them aside at the end of class and say, now here's why that's doing that, and you really should you really should correct it this way, and this is why. Um, so I do have trouble separating the two things, and I think that my clients often get a physical therapy visit for free. It's sort of it's sort of baked in, isn't it? You really can't separate in defense of that, it sells because we actually take that moment to teach that person that and then they're like they want more. So like, oh, I'm gonna schedule a private with you. I want you to teach me more about that.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Right. So they're so it's it's it's a it's uh like you said in the beginning, it was a language in a way. Pilates became a language, but the physical therapy also it's the knowledge, it becomes a yeah, an opportunity to educate.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

Yeah, so they really go hand in hand so well. Um, and they're so functional, both both physical therapy and Pilates. That it's it's almost like it should just be part of the physical therapy education in my mind.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

I I really think it's really a nice continuum of care. So many people after physical therapy are left, they don't know what to do in the gym, they don't know what to do at home, and to have that confidence of someone who knows what they're doing, watch them is so helpful.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

I I love that I love that idea of it being part of the continuum of care. Um Cassie, how did getting your doctorate in physical therapy shape because you came in as a Pilates instructor, and then as you, you know, you you went and you got your degree, how did that shape your Pilates and your Pilates teaching?

SPEAKER_01 15:54

It definitely gave me more of uh thought behind the evidence behind what we're doing and the anatomical knowledge behind each exercise that I'm teaching. Um, and maybe some better ways to describe that and convey that in my classes and my work with different clients. So I think that it really helped me um with just every aspect of teaching Pilates. I mean, it really gave me more, I think in the teacher trainings was a big part of it for me, being able to teach Pilates teacher trainings and teach them the science behind it and a little bit of the anatomical background while not, you know, doing a cadaver dissection I can describe a little bit better.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Um both uh something is sort of striking me, and it's a theme that has been coming through in many conversations, and that is um uh seeing the client, uh, but but moving away from fixing and more into wellness moving continuum of care. Um where is there a line between the fixing and the continuum?

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Uh it's it's this is something that I think as the owner of the clinic and one of the you know, uh a physical therapist who for years has been doing this wellness thing. In the physical therapy realm, like I'm in like the 1997, early 2000s talking about doing wellness, and other PTs are saying to me, Well, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

You can't do that, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

You can't put PT on your card if you're doing wellness. I'm like, Well, why not? It was a very gray area, and it still is somewhat gray, so that's a really good question. And what a lot of PTs do. And then and then on the Pilates side, you have scope of practice. Exactly. Right, and and so we we fear it on both sides is that I'm in this gray zone, but I do have both. I have the Pilates certification and I have the degree and PT. And why can't I blend them? And there's a much more open mind in the, you know, in the national organizations for physical therapy to this now. And actually, I have other physical therapists in the private practice section coming to me asking me, how do you do that? Like, I want to learn that. But there is that line, like, and you you do need to think about that when to take the client from from the PT visit to the wellness. And I think I push the envelope and I do it soon because I feel like the wellness actually helps fix the problem. Sort of like we were talking a little bit about um how Joe Pilates would sort of ignore the problem. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

And the person would you interviewed Ron, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:41

I interviewed Ron and he Ron Fledger. Yeah, and I told him about, or he told me about his knee, which was why he went to Joe in the beginning. He had hurt his knee, and he said that I went visit after visit and he never even looked at my knee. I was getting really mad about that. And finally, you know, he said, I just kept going because I had nothing else, and my knee got better, and Joe never even looked at my knee.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Well, and Romana, as a young dancer, has a similar story, right? She said something, I think I believe it was her ankle. Um, Joe really focused on the rest of her and moved her, and her ankle healed. Um, and she was stronger and danced better um as a result of everything else.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

And as a PT, um, like you said, I was a PT first. Yeah. I then learned Pilates. Yeah. As a PT, I started to see this with my clients who like my husband and I had a physical therapy clinic together as I was learning Pilates. So I was able to just bring bring Pilates right into the clinic and do it as the therapeutic exercise. And then I built their X. And as I did that more and more, and I just did Pilates exercises, I noticed that my clients were just getting better, that I didn't have to just do, oh, ankle theraband.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

You know, of course that might work, but I found that if they just got better while I got the rest of their bodies. It's more fun.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Oh, they got so then the healing quality of movement, right? Which then again speaks to the marriage between the physical therapy and and the movement education. Would you like to see Pilates inside of PT schools?

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Oh, I do, and I actually did it at a few P a few PT schools at Slippery Rock University. Um, we actually had they had a choice, and this is where Cassie did her undergrad, not her, not her physical therapy, but I actually taught a course there that they could choose to take instead of taking neuro, it was Pilates, and it was a whole summer where they had we had bounced body equipment. And I I don't think they're doing it anymore, but for years we did it. And I had several students that were physical therapists there that now do Pilates in their practices. And I think it's a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

I think what we're really teaching people, I have a lot of people that come back and say this to me is that we're teaching everyone that the whole system is connected, that it's not just shoulder versus elbow versus hip. It's that it all works together as a team. And I can't say how many clients I have come that come back and say that you really taught me that this all works together. Right. And that if you don't keep this part of you healthy, this part is not going to be what you want it to be.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

Um and and Chrissy, you were talking about at one point you're you lifted heavy weights, you had an injury, if I'm not mistaken, um, or injuries. Uh and and you've had to compensate over the years.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Yeah, so I was a power lifter in college, and I can't say that I had one specific injury at that time, but oh my, I definitely lifted more weights than this little body should. You know, I was competing and I was bodybuilding and um just doing the normal fitness thing of being in shape. And I I think I beat my body pretty well. So it's probably been, I think maybe six years, uh, about six years ago, I started to have this thigh pain that I thought I pulled my quad, and even as a PT. My husband and I both, he's a PT2. Um, we were both like, Oh, I had this quad injury. And I ended up, I was at a McKenzie course. I've been training in Mackenzie. And the person that was doing the course needed a person that had pain, and I was like, Oh, I have this pain. So, long story short, he discovered that I actually had a back problem that was causing that referred pain in my leg. And I was like, Oh, you know, so I learned that I needed extension in my back to take it away. He actually did it with me, and the leg pain went away. I could step up on a stool when I had weakness. I was just floored. And I learned about my back that the symptoms I was having that were very mild, if I stayed in extension, did more extension in my workouts, did regular back extension, that I didn't have any of that pain. So, you know, that's where this trusty lumbar roll comes in. And I've learned now that I have to direct my Pilates workouts in that direction. And it kind of goes with our whole program that we teach this your back thing, you know, where people choose what their body needs. And, you know, you were asking a little bit earlier about how physical therapy kind of how the Pilates and the physical therapy fit together. And I would say it just helps me choose which Pilates exercises. Oh, I love that. They're all great exercises, yeah, but they're not for everybody. Every time. Every time. Yeah. So I think that helps us plan the sequence and the program. And then Cassie, in our studio, what we do is we help make that program and then we put them with a teacher and we help the Pilates instructor know what program.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Oh, so that's part of your wellness practice. You actually will will take the from from rehab into wellness, you give them a and you direct them and you guide them. In our classes, as well as teach them.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Our classes are set that way. So, like there are certain your back classes at our studio, they're your back extension. And your back is your program that you created. Why you are back, yeah. And so that program basically we have your back extension, we have your back stability. Uh-huh. So, you know, for example, if a client had osteoporosis, we know they need extension. Okay, these are the classes you're gonna take.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

And then they know they don't go to anything that they're not supposed to go to, they go to the ones they can go to and it's less expensive. And the teacher that's teaching the class.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

So they really are getting the best of they're getting like a rehabilitative eye, um, but they're getting a holistic body approach. Yes. Yeah, that's yeah, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

So that's what I do with myself to keep my body happy.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Cassie, I have a yeah, I do reflection, it's not working. So I really I was a pretty serious ballet dancer when I was younger. And really, I think the Pilates kept me from getting injured as much as I didn't want to admit it at that age working with my mother. But I I would see some of my friends. Isn't it funny? You didn't want to admit it then, and now you're like, yeah, now my mom. Now I'm over here, non-blom. Yeah. But some of my friends, I mean, they got some pretty nasty injuries. And you know, it it's it's nice to have something that is good rehab that doesn't beat your body up. Yeah. Do you remember the ballet camp that you went to?

SPEAKER_02 25:16

So she went to this ballet camp in New York and with a group of her friends, and they were young, maybe 13 or something, really young. So my husband and I go up to visit, and she's like, Mom, when you get here, some of my friends are really having a lot of pain. Could you take a look at this person in the person? So my husband and I go in and we're like triage, yeah, right? Yes. We're driving home and we're like, huh, we saw everyone but Cassie. Actually, she was like a rock.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Every nutcracker, every year, you were backstage, and all of the moms were like, Oh, please come help my daughter. Wow, and you were pretty solid. She was fine. I mean, I had, you know, a couple aches and pains here, but I always kind of knew what to do because Yeah, I guess you did know what to do with yourself, so that was part of it.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

But I just was like, wow, no one, everyone was broken except for Cassie. That's crazy. That's great. Um, and then uh did you you've pursued an orthopedic clinical specialist certificate? Yes. Yeah, what is that?

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah, so it's board-certified orthopedic clinical specialty. So that APTA, American physical person, it's part of your Yes, it has continuing exercise and specialties. Um, so really what those do is it makes you an expert on the research in that topic, that specific topic. Are you involved in research? So I am. I'm actually going back to school for my PhD right now. Great. Um, so I'm very curious about that side of things. I want to get into more teaching. Um, but what I really found with that specific certification is it made me stay up to date on the evidence and how to sort through all of the evidence. And then what is pretty cool is every time I read an article, I think right away, well, how can I do this on the Pilates equipment? That's what I always bring it back to. So, I mean, people probably think I'm just like this crazy lady all the time, but I am usually talking about a study or something that I saw every time I see someone.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

And the studies are getting so much better and more expansive, and many are including Pilates. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

And even when they don't, I try to tie it in and see where it fits.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

I I I could be a student forever, so I'm very jealous.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah, that's exactly how to learn new things. So fantastic. Like after after regular school, but I just I can't stop. I just love to learn. Great. That's great. Uh Chrissy, you did great.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

All right, I'm very fine. I'm a proud mama for sure. Today's episode is sponsored by Balanced Body. Pilates is more than a workout, it's an ecosystem of equipment, education, and community. Balanced Body helps bring it all together. We design and build innovative Pilates equipment for the needs of today's movers, and our training programs help teachers understand the why behind the quality movement and effective programming. As we celebrate 50 years of all things Pilates, Balanced Body is your resource for equipment, education, and inspiration. Visit Pilates.com to learn more. Um, okay, so Chrissy, um, in the podcast Moving Conversations, you referenced something called uh meaningless movement. We were laughing about it. Yeah, we joke about this one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yeah, so meaningless movement, I guess it comes even from my fitness days of, you know, I used to teach for AFA, and we had these five questions that we always asked about every exercise. And I I loved that part of their education. Um, and it was really analyzing that that exercise to see, you know, what is its purpose? Uh-huh. Does it do that? And are there any risks, you know, and who is it good for? And I've always had that mindset from that that when I look at an exercise, something I'm gonna do with my client, well, what's it do? What does it do? What's it do? And does it apply to that client and will it help them? And so sometimes, you know, our older studio, we had this little box in the middle that was glass and it was kind of the office, and you'd sit in there and you'd look out, right? And I'd sit in there with my partner at the time, and she would, we'd best look at each other and go, hmm, because we're watching a teacher out there teaching and we're thinking, what's the purpose? What's the purpose? And we'd look at each other, and and that's where the the term meaningless movement came up because it was a movement, sure, it was burning calories, but it was sure it was sure it was burning calories, but it really wasn't, it really has had no purpose.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Like she's been put on a quotation on a PowerPoint slide with stop a meaningless movement, something like quotation. I love it. Yes, but it really is powerful.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

There's some energy expenditure there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

But you know, it just doesn't seem like it's uh purposeful. And I've always been this person that you know, I I don't have a lot of time, so I want to pack everything I can into the moment that I have for my workout, for everything, like everything I get done, it's got to be time efficient. So it's like, why am I wasting my time with this movement if it's not really doing something?

SPEAKER_01 30:25

I think when you're working with someone painful as well, you really have to make use of your time. And each exercise has to have a specific goal. And it it needs to not put them at risk as well.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Let me ask you a question on that. And um, I'm formulating this now in my brain, uh, and again want to make sure I'm I'm treading lightly. Is there a risk of doing too much of that, of being too purposeful, taking away then then the larger movement, or um uh is there a risk today in some of what we're seeing coming out being too meaningless?

SPEAKER_02 31:08

So a meaningful movement is not necessarily a small or targeted movement, it's a movement that has purpose. So it could be a functional movement. Like it's not necessarily, oh, now we're gonna do angle theraband, right? That doesn't make it meaningful, that makes it specific. So you have to It doesn't make it meaningful, just say that again because that's what I think that makes it meaningful, it makes it specific. Okay, then meaningful would give it more purpose. Like, oh, this person, their goal is to uh play pickleball, right? It's a big goal that yeah, I will play pickleball. So, you know, I gotta start at the beginning. There's a lot of pickleball players out there fly into rotation, but I have to have a purposeful movement that that gets me to that end goal.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

Um and it's not just fluff, and purposeful protocols that are gonna get you there, functional, functional and starting in a straight plane and then crossing.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

So not performative necessarily. Yeah, because you don't want to start crossing that plane right away. Right. So, yeah, there's a lot to really consider. Um, so that's if I'm if I'm targeting a client with pain, I think the meaningful movement has a whole nother dimension. Right. When I'm teaching a fitness class, like a wellness class to general population with no pain, meaningful is something where I'm working on typical problems that the general population would have. Like, oh, these ladies are all in their 60s, they're gonna have weak triceps, weak calves, weak glutes. So I'm going to think of movements that encourage that. They're gonna have less fast twitch fibers. You know, that's what makes it meaningful.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

I find too that clients really love to know why they're doing something. They they love to know, oh, my arms are gonna look a little bit better in this shirt. Or they like to know that, oh, I'm gonna be able to go on a long walk because I'm now working on my leg strength and power.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

Right. I and I think conversely, for Pilates instructors, having that information about um how the body changes in their 60s, in in, you know, in you know, from nerve enervation to fat deposits and to hormones and how that affects structure is not to fix that person, but to do, like you're saying, make your offerings meaningful. Right. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 33:36

Yeah, and I always another thing I always say is that like adults don't do things because you tell them to, like children do. Yeah. Do they know that's not always true in a Pilates studio, they're like, you want me to do what? Okay. Yeah. Or occasionally you'll get out and no. You are your you are always like you're a salesman. I tell teachers that I train this, it's like you are always selling. You have to sell this to the client, and not in a an dishonest way, but you have to defend that. Well, here's why you want to do this, and then they're actually gonna do it because they're adults, you know, and so I I think we're always kind of selling. And in my classes, I am. I'm like, well, here's why we're doing, you know, sometimes in Pilates, I'll I'll take the footwork and go fast. Yeah. Like, let's speed that up because you need fast switch fibers. Now, I don't know if Joe ever did that, but I I have that evidence in my mind from the PT side that well, if they don't have any explosive power in their legs, they're not stepping up that curve.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

That's right. When they're 90. Well, but that's a that's a very interesting thing. Um Joe himself, I mean, a lot of what he created by if you reference it by today's standards, it's actually a lot of it's in the method. Yes. You know, uh he was and he changed, of course, over time. But he for someone who didn't have the scientific background, uh, a lot of what was created scientifically really holds muster today. Oh, it does. Um he experienced it in his own body. In his own body, and I and I think nature was his really study. He he watched, he watched people. Um but as as students, as teachers, as having advanced degrees, um uh how how like when you look at the work that Joseph Pilates created, like where do you think some of that comes from? Or how does somebody who doesn't have your background come to those conclusions? Like where he found it? Yeah, like I mean, I let me see. He created a system that that really echoes a lot of what we're finding in current research. Um how do you think something like that's even possible?

SPEAKER_02 35:52

I'm amazed by it. Honestly, that's something that runs through my brain a lot. Like this man could see the future.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Like he I really think the bodies that he had to work with, he worked with so many different age groups and types of people, and then also himself, he was doing it over the course of so many years. Like you mentioned, he was aging himself while he was doing this.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Well, that's one of the things I love of the stories of him. Um those who had him in the earlier years versus those who had him in the later years. Sure. How he changed and how he changed, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:27

Yes, yeah. And that's an interesting thing that you say that because you know, I'm often saying to instructors is like, you know, if Joe were here with us, he'd be changing right along with all the research and stuff. Like he would he'd be bringing this stuff in and he'd be adding it because he was that kind of guy. Well, yeah. How, like you said, people that had him at different times had different experiences.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Right. So I mean, so then how do we keep up with advances in movement science without sort of getting overwhelmed, right? Or or feeling like we've got to take everything and make it so meaningful. Um, how do we uh you know keep attach it to what we know and take it forward? Slowly.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Um, so you know, one thing that I often say to my students on the college level is that, you know, one study doesn't change the world. I know it takes multiple studies of the same thing over time to make change. So just don't read one thing and change your world completely because you read one thing. Enter it into what you're doing and experiment with it and read more and slowly progress in that direction if it seems like the right direction.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

I think going along with that, don't get stuck or hung up on the newest thing that comes out because in five years, every five years, you need to really stay up to date with everything because it's it's really changing.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

Well, your practice, your your practice has changed over the years. Yes, your cues have changed over the years. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

I mean, when I first started Pilates, everyone was in the same class doing all the same movements, right? Yeah, and now, like we have all these different classes that if you walked by, you'd like, oh, that's a different class, that's a different class, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Right just changed. Right. Uh yeah, so it's part of the evolution. But I love this idea of going slowly as someone who now is doing a lot of research. Would you agree with that? Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

And in physical therapy school, they told us every five years we should really be just kind of reevaluating what we're doing and make sure you're checking and staying up to date on all of the evidence. But yeah, that being said, you're always going to have that outlier, client, or patient that maybe doesn't go right along with the study that you read.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Uh, do you have any advice for physical therapists who are interested in adding Pilates to their clinical practice?

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Sure. Um, I really think that how it works nicely in our studio is it's really kind of that continuum of care. So after we have worked on that physical therapy issue that we were dealing with, to transition them back into function, they can really work on their whole body and then it you can watch them over time. So, I mean, having some sort of wellness, either that's something that you have in your own practice or knowing who who to refer to. Like a lot of the physical therapies in our in our area actually refer to us, the physical therapy clinics. They they send them over to us when they need to know, okay, this person still needs some more assistance. Right. Um, we need to be confident that they're not just going to the gym on their own. Um, so either having a place where you can trust that, okay, they they can go get some wellness, or maybe starting to incorporate that into your own business.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

Yeah, I mean, I think that's also worth repeating. So um, for the physical therapist working in a clinic, one option is to find where you can encourage your client into a wellness practice.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Yes, and whether that's Pilates or something else, depending on what you think they need, right? It's important to have that.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Or to add a wellness practice. Yeah, and as you say to that clinic. Yeah, my advice on that, like for a physical therapist who wants to add this to their practice, is kind of what I said about myself. You know, I marched into Pilates training thinking I knew it all. And I had that rude awakening that I knew a lot, but I had a lot to learn too. And so I have a lot of physical therapists that'll come to me and ask me that, you know, what do I do? How do I do it? And I usually will say, you know, don't just buy a piece of equipment and start using it because it won't have the same meaning as it has when you take the time to go take the training, step back and learn it in your own body and practice it yourself, and then study a little bit of that discipline before you just say, Oh, I can put a reformer in my in my clinic and I can do it and it'll be the same. Because it's not going to be worthless, but it's not going to be the same.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

One thing you said last night to me is you said to keep an open mind. So I thought that that is a really good piece of advice for physical therapists, maybe either trying to learn Pilates or learn about Pilates, to just keep an open mind with it, because you do see sometimes someone with some advanced background coming into Pilates training, trying to take all of their background knowledge and think about it so hard with each exercise when it's just nice to just try it and absorb be a layman.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

Yeah. And I found some things as I went in as a physical therapist, like this is probably a good example. I remember them teaching um articulating bridge. And they're teaching me how, like giving me the cues for articulating bridge, and the Pilates person is saying, articulating bridge and extend, extend as you peel up. And I'm thinking in my brain, I just couldn't focus. I'm like, that's not extension, that's flexion, because it was flexion of the lumbar spine. Right. But Joe Pilates, his English was not perfect. So he would say extend. What he meant was elongate, lengthen. It didn't come to me till later. He was talking like extend and lengthen. And I'm as long as they do it, right? As long as they do it, yeah. As long as they have the right motion.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

So you yeah, so you were like, well, but that was also a time, that was also a time. Those are early days. There were some divides and there was some policing all all around.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Yeah, and the language was different. You have to recognize that you're now marching into a layman-based language for teaching movement, which is super useful. Right. It's super useful to the client. Yes. But in the PT world, we don't talk that way. Like I shouldn't say the PT world, but in the in the physical therapy education, it's technical. It's engage your glutes. Yeah, it's very technical, it's very mechanical. It's very, yeah. And as we step into Pilates, it's very visual, loose and and communicative and something that anyone could really understand. Conversational.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Conversational, almost humanistic, yes, as opposed to mechanical and parts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

And I find unfortunately that as we bring more of the mechanical side into Pilates to try to teach anatomy and things, that some of the Pilates instructors are coming out trying to teach in that mechanical way, and we're losing that. I don't want us to lose the artist. We're losing the art.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

It's an art combined with the science.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's a very important point. Um, and I think we we touched on it when we talked a little bit about this concept of of um uh having this this urge to fix, because the client will walk in and the first thing they'll say is, Oh, my back hurts, or oh, the only time my back doesn't hurt is when I'm with you, right? It puts a lot of onus on the Pilates instructor to fix something. Keep them fixed. Yeah. When actually some of that really has to do with the relationships and the movement and the the meaning of the choices that you make, right? Yeah. And language is a big part of that.

unknown 44:16

Oh my.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

You know, the the the language is a big part of that. So so advice for a physical therapist looking at Pilates. Um find a resource for wellness. Um but if they wanted to do their own training, come with an open mind. Take a training, don't look at a piece of equipment and assume you are plant that in your your clinic and make it be that. Um but now what about a Pilates enthusiast or a Pilates practitioner? Um and they're looking to come to uh to to get a ref, you know, be a source of a reference from a physical therapist.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

How should they approach so I I think some some of the trainings that are out there now, like in Pilates, could help them with that. Like get a little knowledgeable on something you're interested in. Like if like we do a lot of um work with osteoporosis, and so we've studied up on osteoporosis and we we cater to that client and then we let others in the area know that we know what we're doing with someone with osteoporosis. We won't fracture them. We we know the exercise program they need, and then we go to those support groups and we help there, and then we get clients for that. So beef up on what you're interested in, um, whether it's reading on your own or taking some continuing education, and become a little bit specialized in some of the things that are coming out of the PT clinic.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

And maybe even getting in touch with practitioners in the area, medical professionals that are referring to you. What do you think some contraindications should be for certain things? Or what are some things I should avoid with this type of client? I know we do that a lot with any doctors that refer to us. You know, we'll write a letter and be like, hey, how do you think we're doing? Like, what do you think? Should there be a new goal we focus on? Oh, interesting. So maybe just communicating with those referral sources.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Yeah, we do that a lot. And especially with the PT clinics that refer to us, we we it's nothing for us to just ask them.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

You know, sometimes they'll call.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Yeah, we can call and talk to them, or the client will take the information back and forth. A couple of the doctors in the area will actually just know right on the script kind of certain things that they they want, but they know that they're in good hands. Right. Yeah. They they trust us because of past clients.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Right. So for a Pilates instructor to have the confidence to go to a doctor's office or to a physical therapist's office and clinic and say, I'm I'm a good resource referral resource for you. Yes. Um, you think finding some specialties and being, you know, developing confidences and competencies.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Or relationships, even to, you know, if something happens in your Pilates session, maybe someone's having pain or they're not progressing well, just to have that confidence to reach out. Hey, do you think because most times, I mean, those physical therapists and those doctors really care about the person that they were working with. They want to see them do well. Right. So just to be able to have that confidence to say, hey, we were doing this kind of exercise, they may not know the exercise name, but you know, just to just to see what they think.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

I think one of the great avenues for this to be able to build your clinic this way as a Pilates instructor is your client. So when you get a client that has issues and they are seeing a doctor at the same time, the best mouthpiece is that client going back and saying, Oh, my back is feeling so much better. We had a client in particular that, you know, was having back pain and did so well, went back to his doctor saying how well he was doing. And now the doctor herself is our client. Oh, I love it. Yeah, she's like, I have back pain. Yeah. And now they come together to a class.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Several doctors in the area too that they can form these relationships with us and they they know what to write on the script, as she mentioned.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

And it comes from other clients. So if you can get your client to kind of be your mouthpiece, that's fantastic advice. They sell you. So, you know, especially that client that is that does have a relationship with a physician, um, can tell them how well they're doing, and then it brings you more clients.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

Chrissy, I met you before the turn of the century, I think, at the Physical Mind Institute. Oh, yeah. Um back then we had no idea Pilates would be where it is today. No idea. What is it that you hope for Cassie's generation? I really like where it's going.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

Tell me more. I I love how the the um medical side is joining in and how we're seeing research that says, you know, we're talking about back pain, and it says Pilates is recommended in the research article.

SPEAKER_03 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

So I'm loving that. And I I hope it continues along that way. But I also really hope that we keep the language, like I talked about that whole language idea. And we don't let it become the same as like it. We don't want it to become physical therapy. Physical therapy has its place. We have our place, we're the in-between. We're like get out of PT and get to life. And that's why I opened my studio. That's why I stopped being the traditional physical therapist because I felt there was this void. And I guess we call it wellness, the void, but it's really that step down from I'm done with PT. Now I really can't work out on my own because I don't know how. And I don't know what to avoid. I'm gonna end up back in PT. And those home exercises, I can't do them by myself, right? I can't carry them over into life.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

I'm so struck by what you said about meaningful, right? It's it's it's um, I don't know how it's I don't know what has meaning for me.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

You know, yeah, uh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

We can help them learn that. And then what I love about our studio is I mean, I have clients, we've had our studio for what, 20, 27 years or so. That's fantastic. So I have clients that have been coming the whole time. Um, and you want to talk about life training through the life stages, right? And they're maybe not directly with me, but they're coming to the studio in some way. So I'm watching them through every phase of their life.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Um, and they keep coming back with different issues. Sometimes things I can help with, something, sometimes I refer them, like, no, that's not with us. That's with, but I've become part of their family. Like, and you never really get to do that as a PT because you want to talk about a continuum of care.

SPEAKER_00 51:03

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 51:04

Like in six weeks, you give them a high five, and then you only see them again if they get really bad and they're they might not get to you. Where here they're in there and they come up and just conversationally say something. I'm like, okay, here's what we need to do about that.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic. Uh so things have changed, and a second another generation is coming in. Um, what is your hope right now for where things are going with Pilates and Pilates and the concept of wellness?

SPEAKER_01 51:36

I think I would go back to what we were saying about keeping an open mind and that don't be so closed off and in one camp of, oh, I only do Pilates or I only do this type of exercise, or, you know, we want to make sure that we are choosing the best thing for that person at the time. And um, like Chrissy was saying, how we see these people over long periods of time. I think it's really important that we adapt and change their programs for the changing body. Um, the body over decades is going to change and need different things. Um, maybe there's a different condition or a different injury that we need to be aware of, or maybe they have a different goal. Maybe they they take a pickleball and you need to adapt their program to change it. So just keeping that open mind to making sure that their program is always to their goals. Because, like she said, I've had people that I've been working with for years, things get stale. You don't want to always be doing the same thing. So just making sure that we're always changing things up. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Okay, rapid fire questions. Ready? Uh what is your definition of Pilates?

SPEAKER_02 52:56

My definition of Pilates is, and I always say Pilates is when I tell you to hold one thing still and move something else. And as soon as you get that, I reverse it. So that's how we explain Pilates. And I have gone through many ways of explaining Pilates. Do you remember when people couldn't even say the word? It was like pilots. Pilots, yeah. And then I hear they would pilot stuff because you fall out. And we would struggle those days. And we would say, Well, it's yoga with resistance. Yeah, it's yoga on machines. Yep. And then, you know, somewhere I settled into this, and it's like, oh, that's perfect.

SPEAKER_00 53:35

Yeah. It's perfect. So you're in agreement. Oh, yeah. So it's a common definition in your space. Yes. Um, okay, uh favorite piece of Pilates equipment, it could be big or small. Coraline, clinical reformer.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

I know core line's not classical Pilates, but I love it. Okay, why say more? We go through phases. Yeah. You know, sometimes it's the chair, sometimes it's the reformer, but the core line, I love that it's functional movement.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:01

So it really kind of is that bridge between Pilates and function to me.

SPEAKER_02 54:07

Fantastic. I love the clinical reformer because of everything it does now. Like Kenny has made it do everything I can. I can adjust it in any way. I have a light spring, I have a heavy spring, I have boxes and platforms and it's just I when I travel and I have to teach. Um first, if I don't have equipment, I'm struggling. I I love the mat, but the equipment makes it for me. Yeah. And if I don't have balanced body equipment, I'm literally crying in the corner. Because I'm missing my yellow spring.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

We didn't even pay for that endorsement.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

I don't feel like missing my yellow spring.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

What do you travel with a yellow spray? Um what uh what's one misunderstanding about either Pilates uh or your profession? And let's let's let's actually hone in on the wellness profession, uh, that you wish more people understood.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Do you want to go first or should I? You go first. So one of the we Cassie and I had a little discussion about this one, and we really feel like one of the misunderstandings is that people think that when they have pain like or discomfort during something, that they should stop everything altogether. And they stop their movement and then they get worse. So, you know, a client will come in and they, oh, I tweaked my knee, my knee was sore after that exercise, and then they don't come back. And the best thing they could do is come back and move. Don't and that's a misunderstanding that your exercise actually caused this discomfort. And they don't understand that sometimes discomfort is the correction happening, the strengthening happening, the stretching happening.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

And you can't always tie your pain to a specific time and place that it happened. Sometimes things just occur. Sometimes we have huge. Yeah, I think that's huge.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

Sometimes it's you can have swelling from things you ate. You can have arthritis that flares with the weather. You you know, there's so many things that it's you can't blame your exercise. And if you don't do your exercise, I can guarantee you're gonna get wrong.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

And it is very traditional that you know, you would get an injury and you would just completely stop moving. And now actually the research says you should keep going.

SPEAKER_00 56:26

And but that research is still relatively new, and there are many you know, the mindset of old was was to stop, you know, that the pain was saying to you, don't. But but actually, so much of research is saying, no, no, uh, engage.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

Yeah, and not that you're gonna like go running on a sprained ankle, but you're not gonna not walk. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

Yes, yes, sure. I love that. That's that's great. Um, what's one habit that you do for yourself that complements your Pilates practice? Bouncing on the trampoline. Uh, you guys were the ones who got me on the trampoline, by the way. Yeah, so tell me, tell me more about the trampoline.

SPEAKER_01 57:07

I love the benefits for the lymphatic system. Actually, when I get on there, my nose starts running, and I love it. Uh-huh. Um, I also love it for my balance and then working on type two muscle fibers, power, strength. And it's just fun. It makes everyone smile when I put them on there. I keep mine in the living room and I do the things.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

You know, I remember being at your space, and that was the first time I was like, oh, the trampoline. I'm gonna talk to you, talk to you both about that when we're done.

SPEAKER_02 57:34

Yeah, and I agree, I agree on the trampoline, but I I also ride a horse. You do? Yes. I have I remember that. Yes, yeah. Definitely the horse riding has a lot of Pilates in it too, and a lot of sort of that instructional feeling. But now you're not doing it just to do the right position, you're doing it to not fly off the horse. So it's a little bit more uh intuitive, I guess. It's a hobby now, which is great. Yeah, yeah. How often did you get to ride? I ride probably two, three times a week because you know, I have my own horse, so I have to keep for exercise. Yeah. Now I just got a camper and we'll be camping together. Oh fantastic. It's fantastic. And a new truck. And a new truck.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

Well, you need something to pull the camper. Yeah. Um, I I like I like this. I like this view. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:25

I know it helps, so I can do that. Um when I first told my husband I was gonna get a horse, because you know it's not a cheap thing, he took it so well. And I think it was like he was thinking, she finally has a hobby.

SPEAKER_00 58:36

Yes. That's not just Pilates or not just Pilates or you guys. Oh, that's great. That's great. Um, okay, uh, one to three books or podcast recommendations for listeners.

SPEAKER_01 58:49

I would definitely say Caged Lion. If you are a Pilates professional and you have not read that book, I do think it's very important because I just read it in the past few years. Um, and it really made me think about everything that we're doing in a good way.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

And we like Nora's podcast.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

Moving conversation.

SPEAKER_00 59:10

We would definitely recommend recommend that as well. Yeah, as well. Yeah, uh, Nora and Brian Ritchie, yeah. It's great. Um, uh any research?

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Um, I definitely think always just searching in the realm of what specific populations you're working with have access potentially to a database, you know, have a relationship with a library that you can search what's up to date and what's coming out.

SPEAKER_02 59:37

It's hard, I think, to when you maybe aren't in that situation where you're in education and finding research like that. So sometimes you have to have a resource of where you can read research. So sometimes stepping down to a textbook um can be helpful to someone who doesn't know quite how to digest the research. Yeah. Um, so I know that uh Shirley Sarmon is not producing a lot anymore, but she does have two textbooks that they're not super old and they they do break down some of that research to a little bit of a a better level. So you might want to think if you're if you're not a person that really knows how to read that research and make sense of it, if you can find a trustworthy textbook that could either an exercise science textbook, you want to get something that's less than 10 years old. Um, because once you get to that 10-year mark on the research, yeah, there's too much change.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:31

Five years would be better.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

But sometimes textbooks, you know, they just they by the time they come out and they get published. So I would stick to the exercise science um types of uh textbooks and the physical therapy types of textbooks because they do match very well with what we do.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

That's great, great, great advice. Uh all right, I actually have one of my own questions for you guys because you have inspired me. So, Cassie, what inspires you?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Movement. If we were to put it very simply. Um, I've always been a mover. From a young age, I did ballet, started at age three. Um, so that was first my love of movement. But then I think what's really cool is I always had this appreciation for art as well. Like that art and science combination, I think really was with ballet, was with Pilates, was with physical therapy, and then all those backgrounds blended into my movement.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

I love that. The art and the science, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:31

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:32

That's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

I'll kind of take it in a little bit of a different direction. I I would say what inspires me is I'm very, I very much want to make a mark. I want to make a change. Um, my mother was very much that way, and uh she she just passed away, so it's kind of fresh. But she was entrepreneurial, she had her own business, she had her own invention, and I watched her make her mark. And I and I wanted to change things. I want things to grow and be better, and I want to make that mark. So I think that inspires me to keep going. I want to change that client, I want to change their life from the level of the client all the way to the level of the Pilates teacher or the industry in itself. Like that's why I was involved with the the NCPT, like because I I want us to get to that level. I don't want us to stagnate, I want us to grow. And so part of my inspiration or my goal is make change, make a path.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:31

So I'm just gonna say this. I hope you can sit where you're sitting right now and know that you have done that already. That you that your contributions have been huge. I feel good about what happened. Yeah, I do feel really big. And and and you're you're someone will carry it on, and someone is gonna carry it on, and there's more work to be done. Yeah, and someone is gonna carry it on. I think that's really just super exciting. Yeah, super exciting. Um, this has been a fantastic conversation. I just really want to thank both of you for joining for joining us here on Pilates Perspective. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

It's wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

Yeah, yeah.