Belonging Isn't Always Obvious

Something most of the neurodivergent people I talk to have in common is a sense of not belonging. Connecting is supposed to be natural—but for many of us, it never feels that simple. In this solo episode, I explore some of my early friendships, what it means to want friendships and relationships while not understanding how they work. I tried learning from books and TV, and by trying to decipher how other people behaved, but it often didn't make sense or work for me. It wasn't obvious. 

This episode isn't a one-size-fits-all checklist or suggestion box—it's an invitation to get curious. It's about viewing friendship, connection, and relationships not as things we’re just supposed to know how to do, but as things we can learn, study, question, and create our own ideas for.

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Transcript

Hi, welcome back to Rebelling. This is Amy and today in this episode, I wanted to start the conversation about friendship and connection and relationship.

Something that's really gotten me thinking about this is talking to other neurodivergent people. And it seems like there's a theme that runs through most of our experiences, which is feeling on the outside of, not part of, and not understanding how friendship works or how relationships work or why it is that I

just don't fit in.

And I was thinking about something my mom said to me when I was on the phone with her a few days ago was that she was realizing that her mom didn't really know what she was doing.

And that made her realize that she also really didn't know what she was doing. And that made me realize that, I also didn't know what I was doing. No one taught us what to do. And in one of those places, relationships and connection and friendship

feel like some instructions would have been so helpful.

My first friend when I was about four was a girl ⁓ whose sister was dying of cancer. And I used to go over to her house and play. And she would bite me so hard it would draw blood. And I would go home, you know, with this bite mark. And my mom didn't know what to do.

She didn't know.

what to say, how to stop it. And when we've talked about it later, she kind of thought I was going to be able to know what to do, but I didn't. And so my first friend was someone who hurt me.

And because she hurt me and it wasn't...

seen as wrong?

I think it set the stage for me to continue to be hurt in my relationships.

It's interesting. This is harder for me to talk about than I thought it was going to be. Um, just saying that brought up a well of sadness, um, because I can imagine myself at four, but little, you know, neurodivergent kid in the world who really needed just basic instructions.

But it was already assumed that I knew what I was doing when I was four years old. Which is just like...

part of that is being parented by, ⁓ you know, a mom who is probably also multiply neurodivergent. ⁓

and just not understanding the social rules and ways of handling things. But it seemed like one of the ways of handling things was just brushing things under the rug.

and that we just ignored like, ⁓ we just ignore this. Like don't make a big deal out of it. Just, you know, put it away.

And so we moved from that place to, ⁓ we moved from Salem, Virginia over to Roanoke, Virginia. And that's where I found my first best friend. And she and I got along so great. We laughed, we giggled, we were silly. It was amazing. ⁓ but also.

I wasn't right next door. I was up the street. And when a girl our age moved in next door to her, sort of got, I felt forgotten. And I didn't understand that just because there was another person that didn't mean that I wasn't her friend anymore. But that's what I thought. I thought that

you know, when I was five, that you could only have one best friend. And if there was another person, then that meant I was out.

And then the kids that I played with that lived up the street next to me, another one of them was a boy who hurt me. He would pinch me. And once he put one of those wooden, like, hammer toys on my head and, like, was pounding the pegs into the thing on my head, and I just didn't know what to do.

So I think I just was completely dissociated and like not even there. And then would go home crying. And my mom just was sort of like, why do you let them, why do you let him do that to you? And I didn't know.

I could say stop.

I didn't understand how friendship works.

And I read, you know, I've read books all my life and reading in books. Like I remember reading, like B is for Betsy and you know, if you're sweet and kind, that means you're a good friend or.

in something like My Friend Flicka, which was one of my favorite books where, you know, the boy is friends with a horse and they just have this unspoken, like wondrous relationship. And that's what I, that's what I wanted with another person.

but I couldn't seem to figure out how to make that happen.

and

Friendship on TV, like watching the facts of life or the Brady Bunch or Little House on the Prairie, like shit happened, but it all worked out in the end and everybody kind of understood how to resolve things in ways that I just couldn't, I couldn't figure it out. Like I didn't understand why when I went to school, someone was nice to me one day and then I was not, I was not okay the next day.

Like someone was my friend on Tuesday and then on Wednesday when I got to school and would be like, hello, here we are again. And they would be like, ⁓ go away. I don't know you. Wait, what? What happened? I am confused.

It's hard to know if that happened because I was... me?

or because I just didn't understand the rules of normal friendship.

I couldn't get the subtext.

And so we moved again to Danville, Virginia and they, you know, there were.

to like, there were no really kids in the neighborhood for me to play with except a couple boys who were younger than me. One of them used to beat the shit out of me. Like he would pull my hair so hard I couldn't breathe. But like, I just kept going over to play because I wanted so much to have a friend.

and be part of something, but I just didn't know how to do it in a way that made sense, like that didn't get me hurt.

and

At school, was kind of the same. It was kind of the same thing. I didn't know how to fit in. I didn't know how to kind of crack the code of what it seemed like everybody else understood and I didn't.

And so then as we head into puberty,

I thought, great, I can, there are things you can do to be.

Grown Up.

Like I can drink, I can smoke, and that's gonna make me fit in. I wanted glasses and braces so bad because when people came to school with those things, they got noticed.

and I would get caught, I would be a middle person in friendships, so I would be friends with one person and friends with another, but then they wouldn't like each other.

And then they would talk shit about each other to me. But then it would turn on me and then I would be the person causing the problem.

And I didn't get it. y'all don't like each other, but now you don't like me. And it's my fault that you didn't like each other in the first place.

It always made me feel like I was missing something. It made me feel crazy, to be honest.

I didn't understand what a friend was.

And I didn't understand when I wasn't being treated like a friend.

And by trying to do the things that were seen as, you know, I mean, I grew up in the seventies and eighties. So the things that were seen as, you know, good friendship qualities.

You know, be nice, don't create conflict. ⁓

Try to be popular. Try to fit in.

You know, like when I'm watching The Facts of Life and I'm seeing, you know, the four main characters, there's Natalie and Tootie and Jo and Blair and Blair was like the beautiful one and you know, the rich one. And she was the one that you could just tell everybody that was who you were supposed to want to be.

from the way that I saw it. And I knew I wasn't her.

And thinking, even now, just like thinking about that show and thinking about the people who were actually the good friends and good examples of being a good friend on that show. It wasn't Blair. Like she was kind of the worst.

But that was who was seen as the best. Or reading something like, Are You There, God? It's me, Margaret. And here's this girl that I identify with, awkward and not understanding things. And then the popular girl, Nancy Wheeler, that was, you know.

so advanced and like, but lied about getting her period, but that was just okay.

the storyline kind of became ⁓

You might be like weird and behind or not understand, but there's going to be some kind of like Hollywood storybook moment where you're not going to be an outcast anymore. And I think I was just always looking for my moment of breakthrough.

But you know, I mean, it wasn't a movie, it was life.

And what I really wanted was from friendship was...

to have someone who.

thought like me and felt like me.

And as I got into my teenage years and

I wasn't ready to be dating and drinking and smoking and all of these things that I just rushed myself into in the name of connecting with other people.

in ways that, you know, were socially acceptable. That looked like what I was supposed to be doing. That seemed like what I was supposed to be doing.

So drinking, having sex, smoking.

It looked like to me that the people who were popular had it so easy.

And with the black and white thinking in my brain, I just thought like if I did what they did, then I would be.

It would be easy for me too. And my God, it wasn't, it made it so much harder and so much more confusing.

Typical friendship is so...

relationships. There's no instructions about how to do it. There's just...

assumptions.

And I think that as far as relationship and connection and friendship goes,

It feels like there needs to be instructions.

and ways to actually show up as who we are rather than people just guessing. And like, if you're a good friend, then you know me. But we don't really get to know each other.

And so one of the ways I think about changing the way that we do relationship, friendship and connection.

is

by talking about how to do it.

It's like traditionally you have to, you have to show up like you know what you're doing. You know everything, you know how to do this. You've never like struggled with this before. You're an expert.

The system is not helping us be closer.

with all of the assuming that we have to do.

It's almost like I just thought of what if you could just make a ⁓ list and it could be a living list. It doesn't have to be permanent, but

A list of things that help someone get to know you.

sort of like instructions about you.

And, you know, I read a lot of stuff online and listen to how people talk about, you know, ⁓ you know, typical people like this and neurodivergent people like this.

And now it seems like it's becoming a...

another way of assuming that because I am neurodivergent, these things are going to be true about me.

And that is where I think that we get the connection and the friendship thing wrong. Is you put me into a, we put ourselves in these blanket categories and then fit the category instead of fitting ourselves.

What do you really want from a friendship?

What do you want from your relationships and connections?

For me, one of the things I love is talking about life and stuff and how life affects you and what it's like to be you. And I'm not great at sharing what it's like to be me. I mean, even though I'm sitting here like talking with y'all, my general mode is to hang back and listen. ⁓

But now I'm starting to understand that if I do that, I'm not being part of the friendship. And so I also need to put myself out there more.

And then how to do that in a way that is me and not the way anybody else would do it. So one of the things that I really don't want to do and don't want.

things to feel like is that.

this podcast has the energy of how to, I would much rather it have the energy of giving you the curiosity to embody your own experience.

And so when I think about friendship and connection and what I missed when I was a kid.

These are the things that I think about. No one taught me how to do it. And I need basic instructions. I just need them. I still need them. I really need them. Not as a how-to, but as a building block.

And what do I want? What am I looking for?

What am I looking for when I'm with another person or other people?

I mean, I just, can feel the sense of being folded into the energy.

of connecting to another person.

What I'm really looking for is to feel seen, heard, recognized, and acknowledged.

What I'm looking for in a friend is someone that I can like run off the edge with and we can just be silly and ridiculous and make each other laugh and at the same time also have deep really intricate conversations.

that are interruptive and excitable and loud and emotional.

vibrant, dynamic.

And I also want to, in the middle of that experience, be able to feel my body start to shut down and be able to say, hey, okay.

I gotta go now. And go.

I need spontaneity.

I want to get used to picking up the phone again. I want to get used to.

proximity.

be in proximity with people that I spend time with.

One of my biggest dreams is to be able to live in a neighborhood with all of my people. So we can just wander over to each other's houses, just like when I was little and you walk down the street and go to your friend's house.

Now granted, was not always a great experience for me, but I imagine what it would be like.

to be able to do that and to be able to show up in a way that feels honest.

Can I reject care?

There's so much acting as if.

in the world of relationships. There's so many assumptions that we layer on our relationships.

the way that things are supposed to be.

And by taking that apart...

And by taking the time to think about.

what's happening, who I am, what I need in this moment.

and not just defaulting to things.

but considering them?

We don't have to stay friends forever. We don't have to stay in relationship forever.

And how do norms like that keep us so guarded in our connections and in our lives?

How can we do friendship?

in a way that is a relationship.

friendship that is known and worn.

and also reliable, dependable, honest.

I'm just learning to explain to my friends that what looks like care doesn't feel like care to me.

And I'm also trying to teach myself how to be a friend.

and the things that I don't know about relationships, how to be cared for.

what I really want from connecting to other people.

is recognition. That moment when we're together that we each recognize one another as another human.

What I really want is just to be able to take off all the shit and pretending.

and be able to show my own reactions.

to be able to have the sense of security of speaking my mind and it not threatening our connection.

and to be able to return that.

I think in talking through this, what I'm realizing is...

We learn to be in connection with other people in groups of children who don't know what the fuck they're doing.

And because we live separately, we don't have.

community around us as example.

We have teachers and parents and other kids. We don't have society.

in our daily lives. Watching interactions between younger and older.

and it feels like that is what's missing.

to be in.

a place where you see relationships.

unfold in real time in day to day life.

And I thought when I started talking about this, was going to be about, you know, being able to take space when you need it and being able to, you know, like,

not worry if, you know, someone doesn't come around for a little bit, that's okay. And having limits on the time you spend together. And I don't know, all the, all the stuff that, you know, neurodivergent people need, you know, the, ways that we've decided that, these are the assumed ways that neurodivergent people need to be friends.

But I think the way that we neuroqueer friendship and connection and relationship is by actually being in relationship with our communities and the world.

that it is not only being able to have time alone when you need it, but it is really getting into

the vibe of life which isn't the same as being social.

It's being able to be in the world in a way that invites you in but doesn't invade you.

And so.

When I think about

what it's like.

to be.

to be a person who

isn't following some invisible rules, but who is part of the world?

Like, what if there's not all these invisible rules?

What if it's not about that?

What if it's not about?

these how-to determinations of what's okay and what's not okay, but it's actually a lived experience. It's embodied.

so it doesn't have to be

a performance.

It doesn't have to be a playbook.

It's living. It's being alive and in your life.

And so what I think about for myself as I look back on my life and my friendships and relationships and connections.

is how the places that it goes well is where I listen to myself.

and try things.

And so what I want isn't a hack or a 10 ways to be a neurodivergent friend or seven ways to neuroqueer friendship or whatever.

What I want is to actually have the experience of living. And what I really want is to have that experience with y'all.

And so I think what I would leave you with is, how do we consider?

connection and relationship.

What do you like? What makes you feel good?

What do you wish people knew about you?

What do you want to know about other people?

What's your favorite?

One of mine is when somebody else makes the food. ⁓ I love to be fed.

One of my least favorite things is ⁓ when people are like doting on me, I don't like it.

What are those things for you? What makes you feel connected?

I'm going to do, um, I haven't decided how many, but I'm going to do at least one interview with another neurodivergent person about friendship. And I'm interested to start this conversation because it's not, this isn't a complete thought. This is an opening. This is a beginning. And the way that we think about things and talk about things and

Even now, I'm in this impulse to have a wrap up, but I don't think there is one. I don't think I have one. I think that.

What it feels like to me is the way that I...

want to change the system that we're in is by being willing to be.

interested.

and investigate.

and really look into.

the depths of who we are.

and how we share that with each other.

And so that's the thought. Those are the thoughts I have.

is that our connections, our relationships are going to be the thing that

It saves us.

And if we get outside of this system that we're in and go back into the system of our humanity.

What does that do to our sense of friendship, connection, relationship?

and let's keep talking about it.

Thank you so much for listening. really glad you're here. I'm glad I'm here. And I hope we can keep.

thinking about living and being human.

in ways we haven't thought of.

and I'll see you next time.