Successful But Miserable: Brain Balance for High Performers with Jon Costello

In this episode of the Neurotrition Podcast, the host sits down with lifelong friend, former patient, and high-performing professional Jon Costello to discuss what happens when success on the outside does not match what is happening inside the brain and body.

Jon Costello, former Legislative Director for Florida Governor Rick Scott and founder of Costello Strategy Group, shares his personal journey of feeling successful but miserable while navigating high-pressure leadership, public-facing responsibilities, burnout, executive dysfunction, and mental exhaustion.

Jon describes the difficult reality many high performers face: being able to “turn it on” in demanding professional environments while feeling drained, irritable, overwhelmed, and mentally locked up behind the scenes. Despite having the skills, tools, and experience to succeed, he found himself struggling to execute tasks, remain present with family, and recover from constant pressure.

The conversation explores the symptoms that often show up when the nervous system is overloaded, including irritability, isolation after social interaction, mental fatigue, panic attacks, stomach issues, sleep-onset twitching, and the feeling of having too many “open tabs” running in the brain at once.

The episode also breaks down the Neurotrition approach to finding root causes instead of chasing symptoms. Through tools like brain mapping, also known as QEEG, the team can identify where the brain may be “running hot” or struggling with executive function, stress regulation, and overall balance.

Jon and the host discuss how targeted therapies such as vagus nerve stimulation, red light therapy, vestibular retraining, eye-movement tracking, and interactive metronome training can help support neuroplasticity, nervous system regulation, and better brain timing.

Jon shares how treatment helped quiet his mind, improve his ability to process one task at a time, and become more present with his family. Rather than viewing brain health as a quick fix, this episode frames neurological recovery as a training process — one that requires intention, consistency, and investment.

This conversation is for high achievers, entrepreneurs, executives, parents, and professionals who look like they are holding everything together but feel mentally exhausted behind the scenes.

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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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Podcast produced byJuming Delmas Studios
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to another episode of the Neurotrition Podcast where we give you the tools to balance the brain, optimize the body, and redefine how to unlock human potential.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

From the outside world would look like the exact same situation. But if you were to observe me in those two different things, one, I look like the prom king that walks around and knows everybody. The other one, I look like the guy that just wants to be in the corner and is like immediately walks in and is like, okay, time to go. I checked the box, I'm here, I don't want to leave, I don't want to be here anymore.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Just really a degree of the weaknesses and how much symptomatology that creates with you, especially when you combine that um with your lifestyle. You know, to your point of have to have a plan, for instance, um, when you go and be social. That's because uh, frankly, you know, you're a more left-dominant uh brain type of person.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

As a typical American in your 40s that has not been educated on any of this because you don't get it anywhere, uh the idea of balancing your brain or even using some of the therapies that we use, it seems like voodoo, right? Like it you it doesn't meet the it doesn't meet the pill or the injection or the cutting that we associate as Americans with how you get fixed.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Welcome to another episode of the Neurotrition Podcast, where we give you the tools to balance the brain, optimize the body, and redefine how to unlock human potential. Don't forget to like and subscribe and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and TikTok at Neurotrition Podcast. And don't forget to visit us at Neurotrition Podcast.com where you can listen to us on your favorite podcast platform. Today on the show we have a really special guest, uh, someone who I've known for God, I I guess about 25 years now, uh just about. Um, John Costello, who is the uh former legislative director for uh the former governor of uh Florida, Rick Scott. Um, he also runs a consulting group called uh Costello Strategy Group. And uh a lifelong friend. We went to FSU together, uh Go Knowles, and um uh a really close uh friend of mine. Uh John, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

No, Matt, thanks for having me here. It's a treat to be here. This is the first podcast I've ever done, and to do it with you and about uh what you and I have been working on together and uh what you do for a living and how it changes lives, is uh it's it's exciting to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

I appreciate you going on a limb here. So John's doing the show. Um, you know, following up, we did some uh treatment with him, and we're gonna kind of go into that. Um, and I hope it's motivating for a lot for a lot of people. Um, so John, yeah, tell me, so just tell you the the audience a little bit about yourself and kind of your background and uh kind of how your world runs.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Yeah, so you hit on kind of the highlights of it. Um I live here in Tallahassee, Florida, have been here pretty much consistently since I came to college in '99. Uh, and then I had the pleasure of meeting you and inviting you into our fraternity uh a couple years later after I got there. But did undergrad and graduate school here, studied political science and both, uh took a little detour off the political and policy side and started my career over at Eglin Air Force Base doing federal uh weapons systems development and acquisition, which sounds really neat. But uh it was living and or working in a classified building with no windows and a four-person cubicle uh with people that I was 20 years younger with at best. So I did that for a little while, decided I wanted to get back into the political world, moved back to Tallahassee, started doing consulting and lobbying, uh, was invited back uh to teach at Florida State in the same uh program that I graduated from, and I did that for about 12 years in addition to my normal day job. Uh, and then uh the like you brought up, I did some work with Rick Scott uh when he was running for governor and nobody had heard of him. Uh, and everybody that was anybody in politics was with the front runner. I had the unique opportunity to join his campaign very early on the leadership team, arguably underqualified and uh inexperienced, but it worked out. So, you know, to the victor goes the spoils. I kind of jumpstarted my career at that point and uh went into the governor's office as a uh is his first legislative director and a policy advisor, did that for a couple of years, got back into the into the private sector, and I've been doing consulting since then, started my own company uh about six years ago now, and in that I do government affairs and I focus a lot on working with technology companies that uh either need policy or appropriations at the state level or sell technology to state and local government. So that's kind of my background in a in a quick uh snippet. But I'm just you're you know, your typical amount middle-aged guy uh with a family, uh, three boys. I've got a 15-year-old about to turn 16, uh, 14-year-old, and a four-year-old. So I've got my hands full with uh yeah, wife and kids and my own business. And I think, you know, I think I'm the profile of a lot of people out there that were kind of going through the same things that we're gonna talk about today. Just uh you look like you got everything and you got everything going right, but you know and you know you're capable of more, but you can't get there, and there's like this block that even if you're aware of it, you can't undo. And that's kind of where I found myself, and why when you know you and I were talking just on a personal level, and you mentioned what you what you do, uh, I told myself, like, like, you gotta try it. You've tried everything else, uh, and nothing's working. So, you know, that's how uh I think I ended up working with you. I was already a patient of yours on the chiropractic side and other things, so it was a natural choice for me to approach you and say, you know, can you fix me? And kind of that's how we got here.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

So you when I hear you say all that, I just I you know, I just hear, I just feel, I almost feel it, you know, lots of pressure, lots of stress, um, lots of uh demand, especially when you consider on the flip side, you got a family uh to look after, take care of, bond with, uh, give them all, you know, give them all their needs. Um and and that sounds like a lot. And that's gonna be even for an individual who is gonna be uh pretty balanced in their nervous system. Um it's gonna be a challenge to manage all that. Uh how how does that how does that play out in your world? Or how was it playing out with your world? Like what wasn't working uh with you?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

I think again, you know, if people watch this, it's probably a pretty typical story. From the outside, it probably looked like it was working just fine. You know, I look like I've got uh the house with the picket fence and the three kids and you know, all that, and and pretty wife, and but on the inside, like you were saying, it was a ton of pressure, right? You when you, you know, whether or not you run your own business or not, if you're at you know, my age and have progressed in your career, you're generally in your uh most productive and income earning years, also the highest pressure to perform years. You're no longer kind of the up-in-comer, you're the producer and what what the you know the business machine leans on to be to be productive. And if you're not, it fails. Same thing with your family. You your kids are growing up, uh, you got a limited time with them. You got to make sure that you're doing what you need to for them. So there's a lot of pressure to make sure you're being a good, you know, good business owner, a good employee, a good father because you got limited time, and then you have your spouse that you know, if you want them to stick around, you gotta also invest into that. Right. And then, you know, all of that, and then well, maybe you want a social life or something outside of work and just immediate family. And you know, what I found was it I was trying to do everything. I thought I was capable of doing everything, and like I said, to the outside world, it might have been that I was, but I was just uh burnt out. And I mean, I don't know if I meet I don't know of the clinical definition of it, but I almost guarantee if I looked it up, I check every box, I would have checked every box. I, you know, I was exhausted, uh, never felt like I could get it all done. And you know, where the worst thing was just knowing that I could do it. Like I I uh I had all the tools available, but the inability to use them efficiently or at scale, you know, for lack of a better way to describe it. It was like I was locked up uh in in whatever was going on in my head, executive dysfunction. Uh I just couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

It sounds like you were it sounds to me like you were you were successful with miserable.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a very good way to to put it. And it's success with misery does not feel like success. It feels like despair, I'll be honest with you. It's not uh and and that's kind of the whole um the paradox of it is you know, who are you gonna complain to? Right. From the outside, they they're like, what do you have to complain about? You've got everything you could possibly want. You know, you're selfish if you complain. So then you're stuck by yourself going, like, am I just crazy? Like, is this is this it? Like, is it is it possible to be actually happy and have this stuff, or is this the trade-off that you're gonna be internally miserable and externally look good? And you know, I just got to a point where I said, uh this ain't working. And you know, I can't I can't continue in this direction because something's gonna break.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Well, I think that's a lot of things that people, you know, don't realize from the outside is you know, when you're running a business and especially when you are the product, I think we have that in common. We're both the product of our business. And you know, it's not like uh, you know, in every business, even even when it's like can operate kind of without you there, um, you still have to be present. There's no such thing as a non-present business owner unless you know you just want your business to suck. I mean, that's yeah, you know, that's the reality of it. Um, but it's not like a you know, you own a car wash and it probably you know it just kind of you know runs runs its own thing. Um with us, you know, we have to be present at some um some point, and it's really dependent on our performance. And that's an immense amount of pressure, and even when we're successful, um that pressure to keep that up. I mean, you know, if I God forbid, if I go break my leg tomorrow or something like that, I hope I just didn't manifest that into the universe, but I'm in trouble. You know what I mean? If I can't get around and and treat patients, um it could it could go south really, really fast. Um, and so I don't think people understand that even when you're peaking with success, um, it you're always on a razor's edge, and that's a lot of pressure for people.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

No, I totally agree. And and you're right. That the it's like I was saying, and you just said as well, that when you run your own business and you're at this stage in your career, there is no set it and forget it. And uh that was the other thing that I would that I I wanted to touch on is it was like as I'm looking at other monitors around me right now with a ton of open file tabs on it, it was like I was running four monitors, you know, a different monitor for every aspect of my life, my business, my my personal relationship with my wife, my kids, anything that I wanted to do with friends like you and our other uh our other social circle. And each one of those windows had you know a hundred tabs open, and I was trying to keep mental control and track of all that at the same time, and it was just impossible, and it's still impossible to do, but at that time my brain was just locked, and I had to keep track of all these different things, and you know, it it just locks you up as far as when you're trying to keep track of everything, you can't execute on anything.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

So I don't I don't want to put you on the stop on the spot here. So, you know, you know, lead this up into your your comfort level here, but you know, I think people are interested. What did that look like, I guess, from a from a symptom profile for you? Like, you know, what were you if you had to give it into terms of symptoms? Um, what did that look like?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Uh, I mean, well, first, uh, and probably the most detrimental, like I said, because it can look positive on the outside and bad on the inside. One of the worst symptoms is just being, you know, short with my family. And uh, you know, yeah, because you gotta perform. That's a good observation.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

You gotta perform for the external world because that's how you provide for the family, but you put so much energy mentally and otherwise into that, you know, the stuff that brings in the income, that there's nothing left when you're trying to do the family stuff. So, you know, I felt, you know, honestly, that I was not as good of a father and husband and stuff because uh, you know, I I lacked the understanding and empathy that I would normally have because I was, you know, just burnt out and uh, you know, so consumed with other things, I was less less than what I want to be, more of a jerk, to be perfectly honest. So yeah, sure. So there's that. Um the other thing that you know, and I kind of touched on before when I was saying, like, you know that you've got the ability to do all these things, but you just can't do it. And uh so a lot of it was just overwhelm that ended up being like do nothing. So like I I I know I have a hundred things to do, and since I can't rack and stack those in my brain and take them on systematically and check them off in a in like what I would consider a healthy manner. Instead, it was like taking a ton of stuff and trying to jam it through a a narrow straw, and what happens then? Nothing gets through, it just jams up and you lock up and you don't get anything done. So, you know, it's which compiles the press, you know. Exactly, and then it's this loop and it just gets it builds on itself and gets worse. So, as far as symptoms, like just not being uh the person you want to be, as far as being happy and and not just internally but externally, it manifesting towards the people you care about the most, uh, not being able to execute on things that you know you can do that are simple, but you can't even do the simple thing because there's so many other things out there that you're you know, you get overwhelmed and the system kind of locks up and shuts down. So in there are I'm sure there are a lot more, but those are the two that you know really pushed me to try and find a solution is I needed to be better for the people that are closest to me in my life, and I just needed to be able to function at a consistent high level and not get overwhelmed and not function at all. Not even like at a low level to me, but a you know, it was either doing it or not doing it. It was an A or B. It was a complete uh, you know, all or nothing. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

And you know, we're gonna get more into the approach and kind of you know what's going on in the nervous system that contributes to this and how you can change it. Um, but I kind of want to expand a little bit more about um where you're you know, talking about you know, your shortness with your family and that kind of thing. Um me and your brains are wired very similarly. I mean, I I I think I identified with you really well because I was like, man, I'd I I experience a lot of the same things you're experiencing. Um and when I looked at some of your tests, I'm like, yeah, it kind of looks like me. Um and I know this. And um, so you know, for for people to know, um, and you know, I I don't want to put words in your mouth or anything like that, but I know for me, um, I I am forced to be an extrovert. I am not wired to be a real social person where I like going, you know, and shaking baby, you know, shaking moms and babies' hands and kissing the babies and doing all that kind of thing. Um, I I'm I'd much rather, you know, be at home, work by myself. Um that's kind of that's kind of how I'm wired to be. And when you're in a job that ends up being um, you know, with consulting and you know, you especially with you being in politics, you know, you're you're forced to interact with so many people and be on a high level when you interact and have that outgoing personality. And I think it's uh unless you experience that for now, I've got people who work for me who like run the front desk and they just love interacting with people. And so they love that part of it, they feed off that. But for me, I am mentally gassed um when I come home and I've you know interacted with, you know, 20 th, you know, 20, 30, usually about 40 patients um a day. I don't want to talk to anybody. I want to go sit in a dark corner and just be in silence, um, which you can't do that and be a a good a good parent or a good spouse.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

No, I totally agree with you. And the interesting thing, like you nailed it, with with what I do for a living, my uh, I guess my gift is even though I'm not what I would say a typical extrovert, I'm very good, and I hate to use the term, but it really is. I'm good at turning it on and performing it. Right. Like I I can I can go into a room and work a room with the best of them, but the thing for me is I have to have a purpose to my communication. Small talk drains me. Like, I cannot just talk for the sake of talking.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

I'm only laughing because I I totally understand, and nothing irritates me more than that.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Yeah, so I mean you drop me in two situations. One is, and this is something I'm gonna go do on next week. I'm at a conference Monday, Tuesday, then I have a week off, then I've got another conference where I'm going for three days, and those things all start off with big, you know, receptions. So you gotta work the room and do that, and then you're constantly in these different sessions and everything. I thrive in that because I'm at that conference with a purpose, and every person I talk to, I have something I'm trying to accomplish with them. You put me in those exact same rooms with equally as nice people, but I don't have a purpose. I don't want to be there. Like, I don't know what to do, I don't know what to say, I feel awkward. It's it's you know, like I said, from the outside world would look like the exact same situation. But if you were to observe me in those two different things, one, I look like the prom king that walks around and knows everybody. The other one, I look like the the guy that just wants to be in the corner and is like immediately walks in, is like, okay, time to go. I checked the box, I'm here, and I don't want to leave, I don't want to be here anymore. So that's kind of just an interesting thing. But I'm telling you that that in context of I too uh I like you know data and working alone and figuring things out and building things, and I don't like to be interrupted, and then I like to use that for a certain purpose, but the uh yeah, the the whole being social for the sake of being social is not kind of my thing, and uh it is exhausting. And and going back to the family part, I think that's part of what trains you, and you come home to the family and look, you know, I'm not big into small talk, but my kids want to talk about what they're interested in. And if I'm not interested in it, I can't just be clipping them off and saying no. Like I've got a four-year-old that might want to tell me about dinosaurs, and my 15-year-old wants to tell me about sports cars, and my 14-year-old is encyclopedic with his knowledge about different like comic book stuff, and and he reads literature and he wants to talk about that. None of those things are necessarily my bag, right? But I want to respect them and be able to interact with them, and I wasn't able to, like, I was my head would go somewhere else, and I could tell they could tell, and that killed me on the inside, and I knew I had to fix that.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

And you know, that really, and that kind of goes into uh that's a good segue into uh talking about how we approached your case. Um, a lot all of this, a lot of the things you're describing is just based off connectivity and how your brain is wired, and not all of it's bad. You know, obviously you get a skill set, and I think that's really important to realize even when you have imbalances in your nervous system, we all have those. It's just really a degree of the weaknesses and how much symptomatology that creates with you, especially when you combine that um with your lifestyle, you know, to your point of have to have a plan, for instance, um when you go and be social. That's because uh frankly, you know, you're a more left dominant uh brain type of person. I am too. And for us, we really Think more logically. We think in sequences, we think in how we accomplish a goal and what sequences have to follow through to accomplish that goal. And if we don't have that in our head, it's almost like our brain malfunctions. Um, it doesn't compute, it doesn't process. Um, unlike a right brain dominant person who can kind of fly off the cuff and do some of these things. Um, you can have real dominant right brain people. There's, there's, you know, kind of a what I like to refer to, and I'm stealing this from Dr. Malillo, there's a left-brain genius and right brain genius. And um, some of those right brain genius can can more think outside the box and adapt and and go to different situations where us more left-dominant people as a rule, um, you know, we're more, we need, we need more of that planning. Um, we need more of that uh sequencing, uh, that logical goal that we need to accomplish to uh to kind of have the, especially things that are not easy to us. So we have to almost like use our strengths to compensate for our weaknesses. But my goal when I treat patients is to strengthen those weaknesses so we don't have to lean so much on those uh strengths to compensate because that ends up creating a stress point um for our nervous system that can uh compound all of these symptoms. So let's go talking about a little bit more about you know what we did with you. Um, you know, when when John and I started working together, the first thing we really started when we started working together outside of just uh fixing his terrible back um was uh we started with genetics.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

I'm still working on that one.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

Yes. I mean don't throw me under the bus yet, okay?

SPEAKER_01 23:38

No, no, that's we've done everything you can. Mine, my back's beyond beyond your ability at this point.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Uh but um, you know, I I think you know, you had a mindset, hey, maybe I can supplement my way out of this, maybe I can um use my genetics. There's some weak links in there. Uh we can uh supplement out of this and create some balance in there. Am I off base on that?

SPEAKER_01 24:02

No, no. You nailed it. Um, and like I was saying before, I realized I had to make a change, so I just started doing as much research as I could and trying to figure out, you know, was there a magic pill for this? I think the typical American thing. And uh, and you know, I came to the conclusion that, you know, I didn't think there was a pharmaceutical solution to it, but maybe there's just a supplementation. Maybe if I just get my if I understand my genetics and I understand what my body needs to be in the right ranges, you know, you get the formula right, and then bam, everything's gonna work. And I'm sure that the supplementation, I know that the supplementation and getting that stuff right has been good for my body and help. Definitely a factor, yeah. But it wasn't enough, you know, because I did all that, and you know, I was waiting for that aha moment or to to wake up that day and be like, all right, it finally has kicked in, let's do it. And it it it still wasn't enough. So I was left going, okay, I checked that box, and we're talking about working in systems, right? Right. I was just gonna say that tried that that didn't work. What's the next iteration that I've got to do in order to try and fix myself?

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Well, I I could I I gotta tell you, from day one when we did all that and was kind of getting to know what you were struggling with, I knew we had to do some neurology with you from day one. Um, and I know I planted those seeds a little bit here and there uh along that path. Um and I know, you know, when I start talking about, I think that's a challenge for what I do because you know, we stack a bunch of different therapies. We look at a lot of different puzzle pieces. And I and I think especially for someone like you, that that is uh with how your your nervous system is is wired, you know, you want to try A and see if you get B result, right? And and that's you know, that's common. And you know, but and this has been something that's actually, I think probably has been therapeutic for my brain to be able to think, well, we got to take a little bit of A, a little bit of B, a little bit of C, and a little bit of D, and start mixing to those together. And that that that's kind of been card hard for me to kind of fit into my way of thinking. That's been an I mean that you know, I've been practiced for 14 years now. Can't believe I'm saying that. Um, but you know, that has that has been an ongoing evolution of myself to be able to do that. So I'm curious, um, kind of how you viewed some of the things I was saying. Um and you know, what what kind of uh led you to kind of think, okay, maybe maybe this does have some legitimacy, maybe this can really help me.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah, well, I mean, like we've been talking about, I think systematically and I think in efficiencies. That's kind of just the hallmark of how I live my life, how I build my businesses and stuff like that, is how do I get what I want in the most efficient manner? And normally efficiency is you know, lowest output of work and lowest output of cash. So as I was trying to figure out how to fix myself, I kind of put those things in that order. You know, what's the easiest thing to do and the lowest, you know, commitment from me that could fix me? And I started working down that and realized that you know, the low, the low barrier to entry or the low effort things could, you know, help around the edges, and it did, but that the problem was bigger and it required a bigger intervention. And you know, honestly, one of the reasons that you know I wanted to do this with you is because it's been so important to me and it's helped so much, and I know there's so many other people that will fit the profile of the way my brain works, the way it affected my life, that stuff. So if they're if those people are like me, they need a third-party validator that trusts that uh that you know it does work, and that's why I wanted to do this, is because I didn't have that third-party validator, not either locally or online or anything, to say, like, oh, well, that you know, thing that seems a little weird at first, is you know, it really works. So, you know, I I went through the the low-hanging fruit, didn't get didn't get the full fix that I needed, and you had planted the the seeds, and you know, you appealed, you assessed me correctly, and and and honestly, it's uh kudos to you. If you'd have just forced anything on me, I have an immediate feeling of like I'm being sold on something, and I'll push back. So you let me work my system and systematically planted the like this might not be enough, you've got this other thing, this might not this might help a little, but it's deeper, and you let me get to the conclusion on my own. Uh, and then when I got there, it felt like my own idea to say, Hey, we really need to do this. When really you had kind of led me there the whole way, so that's a compliment to you and how you approach me and understand patients like me. But one of the reasons, like I said, I wanted to do this is to say in the in the spirit of efficiency, save other people the future of having to do that over months. I I'm the test case, you can look at it. Don't just do that, skip to the part where you really have to understand that it is a it's like baking a cake. You need a little bit of this, a little bit of that, you know, this much time, and you'll you'll get the result. And eventually we got there, and that's kind of uh where we are today. But yeah, it's uh you know, it's a the culmination of all the different things. And now, what did I think about it originally? Um be honest, go for it. No, I'm gonna be honest. It you know, most of the stuff that we've done. If you'd had asked me a few years ago, and especially if I if it didn't come from you, if I just read it on like some Facebook post, I'd have been like, this is woo-woo bull, you know, I'll try not to curse woo-woo BS, right? It it you know, because we're so tied into everything that we grew up hearing, and that's everything that is typical Western medicine of do you do this, do you do this, do you do this? Oh, there's a pill for that here. And by reading more, starting to understand kind of the flaws in that system and talking to you, I kind of started to understand there could be other ways, but yeah, I mean, when you first hear about it as a typical American in your 40s that has not been educated on any of this because you don't get it anywhere, uh, the idea of balancing your brain or even using some of the therapies that like that we use, it it seems like voodoo, right? Like it you it it it doesn't meet the it doesn't meet the pill or the injection or the cutting that we associate as Americans with how you get fixed.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

And no, and you know, I'll go off that too. And I think where people get surprised, I wouldn't be surprised if you uh I gotta I gotta guess that you probably when you saw some of the different therapies we used, you probably went and you know, looked them up and researched them and did that kind of thing. And I think people are surprised when they when I talk about vagus nerve simulation, red light therapy on on your brain, um, transcranial simulation, uh vestibular uh retraining. Um when people start looking that up, um I think they're surprised on how much research. I mean, they'll go ask their primary care, and there's there's there's actually a few primary cares that refer patients to us in town that um who are much more open to it, but you know, there's uh more of a majority who say, oh, you're you know, you're just wasting your money. Um, but when you look up these individual therapies, there's actually a ton of literature on these different things. I mean, there the the uh photo biomodulation, which is a fancy way to say the research way to say red light therapy, um, thousands of studies on uh how it changes neuroplasticity, how it can connect different networks. Um, so there's actually a lot of literature. It's just, you know, the only thing, you know, you know, I hate I hate to to say it like this, but it's really kind of the truth. The only thing that gets to this level of evidence of, you know, evidence-based care is these pharmaceutical companies who put billions of dollars into uh drug development, drug research to um get to that level. You know, there's not a laser manufacturer who can put that money into um getting the the level of clinical trials. My only my rule on introducing therapies that are outside the box, so to speak, alternative, so to speak. Um, you know, when I was in chiropractic school, I had many people who who were stuck, you know, fellow students were like, why are you even here? You should just go be a medical doctor. Because I was skeptical of everything. I, you know, kind of didn't just flow to all of this all magic stuff that could happen without kind of under I need to understand why. And you're probably like that too. I need to understand why certain things work. And um, you know, that that that was why I only introduced therapies that, hey, they may not have, you know, 10 different randomized clinical trials um that gets FDA approval. But if I know essentially two things, is there sound scientific, you know, at least theory and some uh some proof of concept that this intervention is going to make the change I want to see happen? And number two, am I not gonna hurt the patient while I do it? If it fits those type two criteria, hell yeah, I'm gonna use it because um, you know, when people are suffering, and I I thought exactly this with my son Jacob, like, I can't wait for these therapies to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt because I've missed my window to do it. You know, we'll probably be dead by the time these are uh you know mainstream therapies. So um to me that's kind of my rule and how I operate. And I think that's important um for patients to know in general, because there are a lot of providers in the alternative space who throw stuff against the wall. They maybe had a couple of patients who responded to something and now you know they preach it like it's gospel. And I think that can be um of detriment too. It's definitely a detriment for what I do because there is a lot of quote unquote snake oil salesmen out there who are you know um not really having the the evidence behind um what they do. So there is a balance to that, but I think sometimes that that bar is too high, and I I totally understand why uh patients um get to that point. But to go more into you know what we did with you, um, you know, after you know, we kind of did the supplement regime, we did all that, and we still kept him on supplements. I think that was important to his success. We started looking at his nervous system. So for for John, it was his fight and flight system was out of control. Um it was way, way too elevated, which his lifestyle almost certainly had a uh a factor on that. Um, we looked at how his eyes move together. You know, people don't realize that checking your different eye movements, so how you track, how you move your eyes rapidly back and forth, all that is controlled cortically, okay, by different parts of your brain. And, you know, no offense, man, but you're sucked when we first started with you. And that started giving me the sign, okay, man, there's imbalances going on here. And then probably the most um, and uh correct me if I'm wrong, and I think probably uh the most powerful test we did for you to really know there was a problem um was the brain mapping. When we did the brain mapping, I mean it fit your symptom profile to a T. Um, the lack, you know, struggling with executive function, being able to um, you know uh manage uh stress in your environment, being able to control those anxiety mechanisms, um, all of those things, you know, in some ways, John's brain was running so hot at such a high level, which you know is part of giving him a lot of talents, but it was creating so much noise that I think that was a a real generator of a lot of your symptoms. Did that did that resonate with you? Did that make sense to you?

SPEAKER_01 36:16

100%. And actually, uh it was getting those initial, you know. I I had already I built up a level of trust with you, like we talked about. We tried the other things, we built up the level of trust. I said, okay, I want to do this. But before we even started doing the the treatments, which I'm sure we're gonna talk about, it was that initial assessment, right? Where we scanned the brain, we tested my eyes, we tested my balance, all those things. And when I got the initial results, like the baseline results, and they matched exactly what I was feeling on the inside. That's when I had a whole lot of faith that the actual therapy was gonna work because I was able to say, you know, going into it, they understand what's wrong because the way it's presenting on the results is exactly what I'm actually feeling. So that's that's kind of where I got the empirical evidence that I needed that, you know, we'll see if the therapy works, but we know I know for a fact that this guy's able to show me with concrete evidence the things that I feel I'm not crazy.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

And that yeah, I was just gonna say that's kind of therapeutic in of itself, right? Because there is a certain point where you go through this and you go to medical doctors and they're saying, hey, man, you're healthy, there's nothing really wrong with you. Um, you you start to just think you're going crazy.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

Yeah, and and the thing is, and I don't we can go down this rabbit hole, talk about it later or not, but the it goes to like a root cause cause analysis too, which is kind of how my brain works. It's like stop fixing all these different things and figure out what the main cause is, fix it at the root, and it'll solve the others. You know, I'm as you well know, I I've got stomach, I've had stomach issues, panic attack issues, you know, when I go to sleep at night or try to go to sleep at night, I'd start twitching before I could fall asleep. And I was like, what the hell is going on with me? Like, I what is this? And and it, but it wasn't anything where it was like, oh, you know, they would say, Go see uh, you know, uh stomach doctor, go see uh this kind of doctor, that kind of doctor, and they all look in their little silo and they've got their you know typical playbook that they run against it, but none of them were looking at holistically and going, like, oh, well, actually, there's a thing right here in the that's exactly the problem. So that the fact that you were able to scan my brain, test my bounds, test my eyes, reflect back to me that these are like systematic root cause problems, in that that could be what's causing all these other things that I'm running around town, the doctors not getting satisfying results for. That was the validation I needed. Like, okay, this let's definitely do this and push all in and see how it works. And we can, you know, we can talk about the results when you want to, but bottom line, it worked, and it proved to me that you know the again, just kind of my entire philosophy on on how we treat the human body that the current model that's pushed out there is wrong, and that we need to look at it more holistically and treat things from a root cause. And you know, not to go too far back in the conversation, but you brought it up and I wanted to touch on it because it's something that I believe in. Is you said that there is, you don't do anything that doesn't have empirical evidence. I totally agree with you, but there are gatekeepers of what evidence gets to the public, at least to the public at scale with the quote unquote experts behind it that we've been told are who we should trust.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

We learned all about that during COVID.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Exactly. And you've got and you've got a moneyed interest that just think about it. If going to you fixes things that are sending me to four different doctors that are billing my insurance and put me on medications that I'm paying for for from pharmaceutical companies every month, actually fixing the pro there's no money in fixing the problem. The money is in treating the symptoms, and it's something that I've always believed in, but now with it happening to me, that's been like the validating thing for not just how to fix me, but how I've kind of viewed this whole industry in general and why I think that it's got you know problems that need to be systematically fixed uh at some point.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

And and you know, I think I think it's just uh a big part of it is the model, you know, it's a critical care model, and you know, this is kind of a separate broadcast. I won't go too deep into it, but you know, I really it's not like I I think that the medical system doesn't have good things to it. Um, you know, for crisis care, you know, if you're actually having a heart attack or something like that, it's it's very good at that. Um, and I don't think that that is a uh a bad thing to have. It's just to me, it's more merging these two together, looking at overall function, putting all these puzzle pieces together, and then still having that crisis care. But it it and we need to find a way to merge it together. I don't know how that's gonna happen. Um, I think it's just more people being aware. Um, and honestly, it's gonna be practitioners playing ball. It's you know, I I like working with medical. I don't have a trouble talking to them or describing this to them. I have a lot of confidence in what I'm doing and what I'm saying. And um, you know, if they just listen a little bit, it'll make sense to them too. And it almost always does when we have those conversations. But I know people are kind of like, okay, can you get to the point of what the hell you did? Um, so um, you know, with with John, essentially we look to rewire his brain. And and uh I'll let John speak to this when we get to kind of how he felt, but it had nothing to do with changing him as a person. I was like, you know, people get kind of freaked out about that when you start working on their their brain. Am I gonna become a totally different person? Um, no, we're we're not trying to mess with the strengths. In fact, you know, there's only so much you can do to unwire what happened developmentally. Okay, and I think a lot of the things that you're experiencing, and I think this is true for most individuals, is just an ongoing product of how their brain was wired as an adolescent. Okay, that sets you up to to have your strengths, to have your weaknesses. Um, and with him, we uh, and this is a a good uh actually reason why I didn't want to pressure you into doing this is because it's as you saw, it's quite a bit of work. It's it's you know, resources, it's time. Um, I mean, we started off with John doing an intensive. He was in our office for an hour every single day uh for the first week and then once a week for 12 weeks, because it takes that repetition um to create the changes in your brain um wiring to create those changes. So I I know if people are not ready to commit to that process, they're not gonna get any changes. Because it's not something you go, like, yeah, I've had people, can I try a session and see how I feel? I go, I mean, you can, but that's not gonna tell you anything, you know. It it takes that repetitive stimulation. So um what we did with him is the first thing we did is uh in our sessions, we we stack a bunch of therapy, um, but his balance wasn't super good. He had imbalances in his vestibular system, which is your inner ear balance, which connects to um, I would argue probably if I had to uh signal out a um most important nerve in your body, it's probably the vagus nerve. Um that interaction is really important. That's what regulates your fight and flight response, which we already mentioned was high on him. So we did vestibular work, we did vagus nerve stimulation, we worked on brain timing. I wish I had videos of John's first couple of sessions doing something we do called interactive metronome clapping to a beat because I'd I'd be using that as uh blackmail for the rest of his life.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

Well, it it explained why I never hit my. Potential in sports, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

So we worked on that, and then um we did red light therapy, and we did red light therapy very specific. So we did it on the parts of the brain that was weakest. That's where the brain mapping really helps. We can specify those out. And then we also had transcranial stem, which is just like an electrical stimulus that we put on the head. They're almost like think of it almost like a TENS unit for the brain. And those help balance brain waves out in between uh specific sessions. And we did that over and over and over again. We had him on a neurohome program where he was doing vagus nerve simulation at home with a vibration device. And I I'm really curious of what he thought at first about a little vibrating tool called a Resimax on what that was gonna do for him until he kind of learned the science behind it. But we did that over and over and over again over this three, four month uh time frame and really got incredible changes on his QEG. And I kind of knew he was getting better as the process was going on. But I remember when I got those, you know, follow-up reports of him, I was like, man, if this guy's not better, I I'm gonna quit because it was so obvious on his uh follow-up testing. Um you know, John, why don't you speak a little bit about what you experienced? I'm really curious to know your arc and what you felt throughout the process um and uh kind of your experience going through that and how the changes progressed because you know everyone wants to feel better in the first day or two, you know. Um everyone and everyone wants it once they're better, they want it to stay consistent, right? And that's not really reality too. There's always little dips um in the radar when we go through that. But just tell us your experience going through the process.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Yeah, no, I mean I I totally agree with the, and I remember asking you the question, like, hey, how fast is this gonna work? Because we're again going back to kind of my thesis on but the medical system, we're conditioned to okay, you figure it out, you give me a pill or an injection, it fixes it, I feel better, and you know, we're good, right? But I liken this a lot more to working out and getting your body healthy. We're used to the idea, and I think we've kind of accepted the idea that if you're gonna work out and get your body healthy, it's not overnight. It's about targeted working out certain parts of your body, muscles, doing certain things. You have to do it over time, and as you do it, it gets better and it builds on itself over time. So I think that kind of what you guys are doing and what I went through with the intensive and then the ongoing is like getting a personal trainer for your brain. Instead of going to the gym and going for a full week every day with the trainer, so you're you're accountable and there and doing it for the first week, and then they meet with you once a week. It's the same thing for your brain, but you know, for anybody listening or watching, it's easier. Like it's not as physically difficult to go in for that hour a day and go through the the brain training as it is to go in and like be put under you know hundreds of pounds on a squat rack with someone yelling at you to stand up faster. It's uh but the impact is greater, in my opinion. So to give you an idea, you know, I did the intensive, and from day one, you know, I don't know if I could say day one to day two, I noticed anything, but day one, which for me was a Monday to Friday, which was day five, you know, that last one, I could definitely tell. I knew I knew what could you tell at that point? It my mind quieted down to be I mean, like it did. I I could try and describe a lot of different things, but all that noise that we've talked about, all those open file, you know, the the tabs on the on the screen, they didn't go away, but they weren't consuming me anymore. And I could read one at a time rather than trying to ingest all of it at once and process it at once and overheat and the system shuts down. So I noticed that in by fixing that again, it it flows out to the other stuff. I was more patient with my family, I was honestly able to like enjoy more things, and I felt it right away. And because I think we, my family and I went uh down to the beach or something the weekend after the intensive, and I just remember being at the beach thinking, like I normally would be here physically, but mentally not be here at all and not enjoying it. And I was actually at the beach, genuinely enjoying my time there, and like kind of the metacognition of realizing that that's happening and I'm enjoying it. I was like, oh wow, like this really worked. I remember texting you, I think, and being like, This is insane, man. I can't believe that this is had this kind of impact already. And you, being the professional you are, said, I'm happy that it's working. Just know you might be kind of riding high on quick results, and this is a consistency thing, and there might be some up and down. And I experienced a little bit of that, but never a I mean, it went like this. You never went back to baseline, right? It might have gone like that a little bit, but it was, you know, it was a trending up arrow. If it was a stock, you were still buying it. You might have missed the the jump, but you you still now have a steady blue chip that's gonna keep returning over time. Uh, there was never any kind of big letdown, and so it that's kind of how I experienced it. But I I do think, you know, just for those watching or listening that want that quick fix, you do have to kind of internally accept that it's not a pill, it's not an injection, it's a process. But if you felt like I felt, what the heck's a week? You know, uh honestly, it what's like a the a week of intensive, and with how fast time passes, what's 12 weeks of follow-up? I mean, if it feels like we just started and it's been months now.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Especially when you put it in the context of what you just described to me, because that is the kind of change to me that changes somebody's life, changes their whole outlook of life, it uh changes their enjoyment on life, and that's a great that's that's a uh great uh way to put it is you know, what is that time investment when you consider those kind of changes?

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Oh, I mean, forget the the time investment is so an hour a day. I mean, all of us can find an hour a day for that intensive week. That and if you can't, you're lying to yourself because you you waste, if you're like me, you waste more time feeling down and trying to analyze yourself every day than the hour to fix yourself. And you know, I'll I'll be perfectly honest on the on like just the financial investment side, and I don't want to I don't want another bill from you, please, but it's worth in an incredibly amount more than you charge me to do it. It's worth 10 times the price if you actually if if you take a step back and say, what is becoming more efficient and better at what I do for a living worth, what is being a better husband worth, what is being a better father worth? It's it's a priceless outcome. It's investing in yourself. 100%. It's an investment in yourself that compounds because it's not just you feel better, that feel better means that you're gonna have more fun with your kids, you're gonna have more fun with your wife, you're gonna make more money to offset whatever the cost was because now your mind's freed up to do it. So yeah, it really is just kind of an invaluable investment that if people are ever considering doing it and they're like, Well, I don't know if I want to put that kind of money, I would say the opposite of not only like do you really want to keep feeling like that, it's worth it just to not feel like that anymore. But you're not just gonna feel better, you're gonna make all that money back because you're actually functioning at a higher level, and the returns are gonna be, you know, for another podcast. But we can go with stuff on done sense, but the returns are great.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

So, you know, just to close this out a little bit, what what would be your message to other, especially other people in your shoes, like these high-level performers, these people who go a thousand miles an hour and that's never gonna change? What would be your take-home message to them?

SPEAKER_01 52:36

That uh if you feel like me, it can be fixed. And if you're like me and need validation, watch this, uh, you know, contact uh Matt. I'd be happy to talk to people, and you can hear it straight from me. And you know, uh, I I've got nothing to gain by by being an evangelist for this whatsoever, except for I just think that nobody should feel like I did when you can feel better. And uh, so that's really my message is don't just take it on my word, don't just take it on on Matt's word. You can go do the research, you can see the different portions, like Matt said, are scientifically supported. And you know, maybe there are other people like me that are willing to talk about it, but it can get better and it's worth it.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Yeah, and I I think that's uh another thing is I think a lot of people get uh you know hit into this realm where they think they just can't, they there's nothing they can really do. And um, I think that's uh that's a big block for people, or this just is the way life's gonna be because my stress is never gonna go away. So I think that's a really, really great message. Well, John, I I can't thank you enough for uh uh putting yourself out there and sharing your story with everybody. I think that's really, really helpful for people to know that there are some solutions out there. Um so thanks so much for coming on the show.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

No, I appreciate it. And anytime you'd like me back, especially to talk about the healthcare system, I'd be happy to be the political side and policy side to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

We're definitely gonna do another episode. I already got some ideas on that.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

All right, so this has been great. I've enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

All right, everybody for everything you've done. Oh, thanks. Oh, of course, of course. All right, everybody, thank you for uh tuning in for this episode of the Neurotrition Podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube at Neurotrition Podcast. And don't forget to visit neurotritionpodcast.com where you can listen to all of our episodes on your favorite podcasting platform. We will see you on the next episode. If you want some help with some of this, if this sounded like you, visit us at healthy talahhasty.com. I will be happy to do a free consultation with you and see if we can help. We'll see you guys on the next episode.