Behind The White Coat - Real Talk For Physician Spouses
Being married to medicine comes with challenges—long hours, relocations, and feeling like you’re navigating it all alone. That’s where this podcast comes in.
I’m sharing the things I wish someone had told me—how to survive medical training, juggle parenting, manage finances, and actually build a life you love. We’ll cover everything from making friends in a new city to understanding insurance, finding childcare, and staying connected as a couple.
Some episodes will be just me, sharing real stories and lessons learned. Other times, I’ll bring on expert guests—financial advisors, physician spouses, and those who’ve been through it all—to offer practical advice.
Most of all, this is a place for community. A space where you can feel understood, supported, and even laugh along the way. Because being married to medicine doesn’t mean doing it alone.
So grab a coffee (or wine!), and let’s talk about the real side of life Behind The White Coat.
Behind The White Coat - Real Talk For Physician Spouses
#20| Navigating Debt During Medical Training
Kristin Gentry shares her journey as a pharmacist married to a cardiologist, offering wisdom on navigating careers alongside medicine, unconventional medical training paths, and successfully paying off significant student debt during training.
• Kristin's husband took a non-traditional route to medical school through University of Missouri, Kansas City's MD-only program
• Managing six different board certifications while balancing family life and pregnancy
• Successfully paying off $290,000 in student loan debt during training through intentional budgeting
• Using financial tools like YNAB and resources like White Coat Investor to track spending and build good financial habits
• The importance of physician spouses maintaining their own social lives and not waiting for their partners to be available
• Finding connection with other physician spouses who understand the unique challenges of medical marriages
• Focusing on "The Good Stuff" - finding joy in the messy, imperfect moments with loved ones
Connect with Amanda on Instagram or email at amanda@abtnhomes.com with questions or topic suggestions for future episodes.
Hello guys, welcome to today's episode. I am excited to have you here and, for those of you that are new, for Behind the White Coat and listening to this podcast, it is for physician spouses and a great platform to share your story, feel heard, connect with others and then get tips and tricks from fellow physician spouses and also some experts. And I'm excited to introduce you to my friend, kristen Gentry, today. She is somebody that I met thanks to Facebook and we've known each other a couple years now and I feel like she's a wealth of knowledge and we were just talking before starting this that a few people in our Married to Medicine local group was like you got to have Kristen on. She's just one down to earth, somebody just great to know, but a wealth of knowledge across the board with life.
Speaker 1:So Kristen is a pharmacist, a mom, married to a cardiologist here in Nashville and she and her husband have been together since college, so she's seen it all. They have experienced the MCAT, medical school, residency, life and then also navigating what life looks like after training. This episode I'm excited we're going to dive into what it looks like having a career while married to medicine, the unconventional route that her husband took for med school and talking a little bit about some stresses, especially while studying for board exams, and then, best of all, tips for paying off debt during training. So, kristen, thank you for being here. Well, thank you, Amanda.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and, like I said, I feel like you have so much to share in so many different platforms and topics, so hopefully we can get it all into this one episode. If not, then I will obviously be asking you to come back again, but I gave you just a quick intro. Is there anything that you would like to share with the listeners, just a little backstory background to you and your family, or anything that you would like them to know that I didn't mention?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my husband and I have been together since my freshman year of college. He was a couple of years older than me, he was a junior, and so we started dating about six months before we started studying for the MCAT. So we really have done this whole journey of medicine together and we just celebrated our, I guess, 16th wedding anniversary. So we Congratulations, thank you. 21 years together, 16 married, and so we've done all the moves, all the. I do not claim to be an expert in any capacity, but I am happy to share what I have learned along this way.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you have a story and experience. Yes, and I always say marriage is tough, and then when you throw into the mix moving medical training, being married to medicine, family, it's hard. So we sharing these life experiences I feel like helps so many people, so many listeners, and so I think you have a lot, a lot to share.
Speaker 2:So tell me a little bit, whenever I was reading some stuff in preparation to the podcast about your husband's route as far as medical school went, and that it was a little bit non-traditional and he was waitlisted for the medical school that he really wanted to attend and so he did not get in to medical school where he would have started the fall after he graduated from college and so he was in the process of reapplying to all the medical schools and trying to get his application redone and all those things submitted and the rec letters and all the things that you have to do.
Speaker 1:The long list of things right that whole long list of things.
Speaker 2:That feels like it was ages ago, but I remember that we did it. He found out that there was a program at the University of Missouri, Kansas City, which is traditionally a six-year straight out of high school program, but they sometimes have some turnover kids that extend a year or drop out of the program and decide to pursue something else, and so they have a few spots in that program that they open up for people just getting their MD and they don't need the prerequisites because they already have those. And so my husband was accepted into their MD only program at the University of Missouri, Kansas City and so he actually started that January after he had graduated college in the May, so he didn't have to wait a full year. He got to start in January. But the way that program was structured, he ended up doing four and a half years of medical school and then he applied to residency at the same time that everyone else would apply for it.
Speaker 2:But it was a different situation because a lot of the he's two years older than I am, but a lot of the kids in his class were actually my age or maybe even a year behind me that were in his program. It was interesting. He actually had a really great group there were about 10 of them, I think, that were only getting their MDs and were still in contact with all those people and a lot of the other people in his medical school class too. But I think that that's been fun to see where everyone ends up and the journeys that everyone has taken, you know, in like a little bit of a non-traditional route to medical school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I didn't even know that was an option. So how did he actually find out about this program? So was this the school he was initially on the wait list for? Did they connect him then with this program? Just research on his own? How did he find it that?
Speaker 2:is a good question. I don't know that. I know the specifics. So he applied to the University of Missouri in Columbus, the traditional University of Missouri program, and he was waitlisted there. I know he was working at the hospital, you know, working on his resume and everything in the meantime and I don't know if he found out about it through that or I don't remember exactly how he found out that there was. It was a possible to apply to the UMKC program. We're both from Missouri originally, so we knew people who were at the University of Missouri, kansas City, for medicine. But I don't know if he found out about it through that or a different channel.
Speaker 1:I'm not exactly sure how that actually came about and what a great program. So when he started in January, you said it was a four and a half year program. Would, it have still been a four and a half year program if he started in July. If he started, did that matter? When he started, was it going to be a four and a half year program, no matter what.
Speaker 2:So the way, their program is structured. They only take people for that MD program in the January, so it's like a year and a half into their six year program. But the way they have their classes structured is it ends up being four and a half years, so he was able to take like a summer semester off and that's actually when we got married is when he had his summer off, because otherwise otherwise it's a year-round program and he worked at the hospital that summer and we got married and did married people things.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. It was meant to be that way. You had the summer off get married. I remember we got married the end of third year into fourth year of med school and got married on a Saturday and he had to be right back on Monday and then we did not have a honeymoon until later on. So it was nice that you guys had that time. So it was mentally Okay. So I want to know more about his board certifications. And when I read this I was like what? So he has six board certifications? Yes, tell me about that, holy moly.
Speaker 2:So yes, so he's a cardiologist, but he specifically is an imaging cardiologist and so the way his training worked, he did three years of internal medicine residency and so he, during cardiology fellowship, he had to sit for internal medicine boards right after we had moved and he had started fellowship for cardiology.
Speaker 2:And then, after general cardiology fellowship, he did two years of extra training in imaging and so he sat for general cardiology boards when he had started his they call it a super fellowship, his extra two years of imaging training, super fellowship, super fellowship. And then it's also very common to get board certified in nuclear cardiology I think it's what it's called, but it's the people who administer stress tests for cardiology. So that's a different board certification that you can do. And then, because he's an imaging cardiologist, he reads several different types of images. So he is board certified in echo cardiography. He's board certified in reading MRIs and he's board certified in reading CTs. And he has already had to renew his internal medicine boards, which he did, I guess, last year. Obviously he will renew his cardiology boards and all those other ones when they come due.
Speaker 1:But so far he has only had to reset for internal medicine.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess the good news is not all at the same time. They're not all at the same time. Yeah, yes, I think two of them were within. Maybe three of them were within like a year, and so that I don't look forward to doing that again, but it's at that time that we did that. He, we had a young kid and I was very pregnant and he was doing a few of them.
Speaker 2:I know one of his leave it's MRI is a fairly new board certification for cardiology and so that one he actually did when he had been practicing for a couple years. He sat for that one, so that was a different timeframe. You know, I wish I could say that studying for boards and being a spouse supporting somebody studying for boards is old hat for us, but I don't know that. I feel comfortable saying that it ever necessarily gets less stressful and easier because you still want them to pass the first time and you want to make sure that you are able to have them carve out enough time to study where they feel ready to take that exam, while also still living your life and having them be a part of the life that you're living together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and let's talk about that for a second. So obviously you're pregnant and I don't know the timeline of when you had the baby versus when he was studying, taking the various different boards, and so how did you kind of navigate through that stressful time but, like you said, to still give him time to study, protect his time to sleep, so that he felt good when it was time for him to go in and take these boards and hopefully pass them on his first go? So what tips or advice or coping mechanisms maybe I should say that you could share with the listeners who may be going through the same thing?
Speaker 2:Well, I definitely think that the programs that you can purchase to help you with board prep are worth every single penny.
Speaker 2:I think that they really help narrow down the focus and really distill it so that you can kind of focus your time with that.
Speaker 2:I know my husband really got a lot of value from doing a lot of review questions, so the review questions were something that he felt like he could kind of take 20 minutes here, 20 minutes there and work on some review questions so that he was able to kind of fit pretty seamlessly into day-to-day life without that necessarily affecting, you know, our family life and things.
Speaker 2:When he was in fellowship I was still working full-time and we had a toddler and I was pregnant and so I think just trying to carve out times when he was off on the weekends or a couple hours in the evening it's pretty common that he will usually come home and do some work in the evenings, like after bedtime or something like that. So trying to give him that hour to after the kid or kids are down to like work on stuff if he needs to work on stuff or carving out a couple hours on the weekend, take our kid kids away so that he has a couple hours of quiet time in the morning at our house, because I think he I think everyone studies differently, but I think he really does well in like a quiet environment where people aren't necessarily. A coffee shop is not a great place for him personally, all that background noise.
Speaker 2:Again, I think everyone is different in how they study and I think by the time they get to boards they know how they study. Well is the nice thing is they have figured that out long before they get to where they're studying for boards and you guys had a lot of boards, we had a lot of boards, a lot of studying there. Yes, we've done it a few times.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, y'all are pros, woo six. So we have a ton of listeners that are trying to avoid debt, paying off debt, whether they're in the midst of training, after training, and everybody's finances obviously are different, but it is a question. I get a ton behind the scenes of what's the best route to go and obviously it's different for everyone, and I want to hear a little bit of what you feel comfortable sharing the process of paying off your student loan during training and when you're talking about the student loan. Is that undergrad student loan? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:so we were both very fortunate that, between scholarships and family support, neither one of us had any undergraduate debt, but we both went to graduate school, so I have my PharmD and then he has his MD, and we also purchased a new to us car. It was a used car, but we purchased it. We had to purchase a new car while we were in medical school, so we got a little bit of a car loan also, and so I think between the two of us, after we both graduated, I think we had about $285,000, $290,000 worth of student loan debt that we had accumulated between both of our schools. And so at that point in time, 2013, around there, I was listening to a lot of Dave's Ramsey's podcast, which is a nice free resource that you can utilize and that provided a lot of motivation. I still now currently listen to the White Coat Investor podcast.
Speaker 2:I think that, for this phase that we're in, I think that he provides a lot of good information for physicians and their spouses and things like that, and I think that he provides a lot of good information for physicians and their spouses and things like that, and I love that. It's a free resource. I read a lot of books. I listen to a lot of podcasts. I like to get a lot of information through books and podcasts and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's motivating when you see fellow physicians and fellow physician families paying off debt and you hear their story of how they do it, so I listened to it as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we didn't follow Dave Ramsey's plan exactly. We always had, I think, about 10 to $15,000 in our emergency fund, but we did really focus on trying to pay down our debt while we were in residency and fellowship and I was also working full-time and for a couple of years, even a little bit more than full-time as a pharmacist, so we did have a larger shovel maybe than some people do to try to dig out of the debt, but we were very intentional, I think, about trying to pay down the debt. That was something that we tried to focus on, and we did continue to contribute to 401ks and Roth IRAs and things like that. But I think for us, the biggest thing was knowing where our money was going, and so I still to helpful because I think it's that $5 Starbucks and the $50 Target run can very easily add up or adding things to the Amazon cart I am absolutely guilty of those things too, but I think being aware of where you're spending your money I think gives you a little bit more control over what you're doing and paying off of it, and so we were able to pay off my student loans, I think within three years of me graduating pharmacy school, and then he had eight years of post doctoral training, you know, between residency and fellowship, and we were able to pay off his loans by the time he had finished fellowship, which was also good to have.
Speaker 2:I think that being able to pay those off during training really gave us choices, which I think that is what money is good for, in my opinion, I think it just gives you choices. So if you don't have student loan debt, I think you can make different choices about the type of job that you want, the way you structure your family life, and so I have been able to go from working full-time to now I'm very PRN, which has been the best thing for our family is for me to come back and be a little bit more available to you know, to be primary parent.
Speaker 1:Well, and especially around his schedule, which I'm sure is very unpredictable. Yeah Well, first congrats to both of you for paying off debt. That's huge and it's no small fee. That's a big debt coming out of post-grad training and I agree with you, I think having some sort of budget and knowing where your money is going, no matter how much money you have, no matter what it's going to, it's a really hard look in the mirror to look at that.
Speaker 1:Nobody wants to look at finances Again.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter how much you make, it's still very hard to look at it and sometimes very much eye-opening when you think, oh, I didn't realize I was spending X amount on Target runs and coffee, and same for the Amazon cart.
Speaker 1:When things are easy and convenient, you seem to spend a little bit quicker. Same with, like Apple Pay and those kinds of things a little harder to keep up with and a quick little story. So I had, thankfully, most of my undergrad was paid for and I decided to study abroad. And that was what I had to pay for on my own, no contribution from my parents, which I completely understood, and so I had to take out a loan in order to study abroad, and it wasn't huge, but at that time when you got nothing, it's still a big loan to take out. And then my husband had to take out a loan during medical school. I was a high school teacher, so we were living off my salary and I will never forget the day that I wrote my very last check to pay off my undergrad loan was the first day we got the invoice or statement for the first payment of his med loan.
Speaker 2:Oh, so you went right from paying for yours to paying for his.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you had no downtime, yeah, no. So I thought, you know, I mean, it was the best feeling writing that check, oh it is.
Speaker 1:I did it. You know I am out of debt, and then you get that in the mail and it's like son of a gun, and so, no matter how much you have, debt is still debt, and so it's such a good feeling when you actually do pay that off. And so I do listen to a lot of those podcasts and I feel like they still have so many great tips and tricks, no matter where you are in your journey as far as training, paying off debt, how much money you have in savings or retirement, I feel like there's a lot of good nuggets in there. So I agree. I don't use that app, though, so I do need to probably budget a little bit better, and the app would probably be easier than an old school spreadsheet.
Speaker 2:I find it easier. It does all the math for me, which I really appreciate, and it updates automatically which I need someone to do all of that for me I don't have the patience for it, but I liked how you talked about how you were living off of your salary as a teacher.
Speaker 2:There were a few years there where we were married, but we were both still in graduate school. So we were on loans, which I don't necessarily know that I recommend, but unfortunately that's what we did. For a few years I was working part-time as a pharmacy technician, but I was not making enough to support living, unfortunately. So you do what you have to do, I guess, to get through, but unfortunately it worked out for us. But I don't necessarily know that it's sound advice, it's just the way that it worked out.
Speaker 1:Yeah no, and, and sometimes you're just in survival mode and and you make it work and so congrats to you guys. I know there's a lot of people chipping away at their loan, whether it's undergrad, med school. Any advice as far as to keep the motivation when you know you've got this mountain and maybe you're only able to contribute small chunks I'm still making a dent but when the mountain's so big, any advice just to keep that motivation going, to continue to do it, not derail off your budget.
Speaker 2:Well, I do think there is some real logic to the snowball method that Dave Ramsey recommends, where you pay off the one with the smallest balance first and then you get some momentum that you can build towards paying off the bigger debts.
Speaker 2:I do think that there is some, I know, like numbers wise maybe it doesn't make sense but I think, like for human nature and human the way that we work, I think it really does provide that little boost of motivation to pay off a smaller debt and then start tackling the bigger ones Again. I think listening to those podcasts the White Coat Investor podcast does like the milestone to millionaires, so you get that hit of motivation when you hear how other people have done it. I think listening to other people who've been there and done it I find to be very motivating. I also think I am a little bit of a numbers nerd and I like to go in and dig in and look at the amount of interest I was paying six months ago versus the amount of interest that's coming from my payment on the current month and seeing that little bit of progress. I am very much the number nerd in my marriage. I think that's what motivates me. I am very much the number nerd in my marriage.
Speaker 1:I think we all have our zone of genius?
Speaker 2:What motivates me? Yeah, so that's my. I don't know if it's genius or deranged, I don't know, but that's my little. My nerdy thing is seeing those like small differences and saying, oh well, maybe $100 more a month is actually going towards the principal. And you know we did that in six months. In another six months we'll have another $200 over that moment. That's going towards principal.
Speaker 1:I agree, and seeing that needle move forward, where you are gaining that momentum and going a little bit quicker. And I do think we all have some sort of visual that we like, even for me, with like a to-do list. I love to be able to check that out for some reason in my brain. And so I do think, like you said, your spreadsheet I know some people have like a thermometer that they print out and color on and leave on their fridge so whatever that motivation is for you. But sometimes I do think it looks like this huge mountain. But once you start gaining that momentum and like you were talking about putting more and more towards it, and you see it moving a little bit quicker. Same with savings too. Right, when you bought it in an account that is accruing interest the more and more you have in there, the faster it's building. So I think that that also kind of gives you a different mindset to continue to keep contributing to it.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that that's the thing is with money the more time you have, it amplifies whatever you're doing. So if you're making bad choices, that compounds on itself. But if you're making good choices over time, that also compounds on itself. And so hopefully you're making the good choices, that compound into something that's positive.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think that's great advice and something even as parents we say to our kids many times you're making bad choices, you're making good choices. That, either way, it's compounded, so I think that's great advice. Okay, we always end with the same two questions for our guests. So first question is what advice would you give to your younger self?
Speaker 2:what advice would you give to your younger self. First of all, wear sunscreen. But on a more deeper level, I guess, I think I would say to really try to go out and do things on your own and not wait for your spouse to be around. So don't be afraid to go to things on your own and not wait for your spouse to be around. So, you know, don't be afraid to go to things on your own because, especially if you meet other physician spouses, they have been there and they are used to also going to things on your own and I think, being married to medicine, I think there is a certain amount of you have to go to things on your own.
Speaker 2:Otherwise you will end up missing out on things that you want to be at and things that you want to do and experiences that you want to have and, I think, some things you can make an effort to wait to be able to do with your spouse. But I think if your friend is getting married and your spouse can't come with you, I think you go to the wedding on your own. It's my, you know, you make sure that you do those things and you put yourself out there, even if it means going on your own, I agree, and having the courage to do that, and I am so thankful that you did that.
Speaker 1:One year, when I had posted something on a group page for physician spouses, you came. You didn't know anybody. I don't think I'm thankful, because, one, we would have never met and two, I just am grateful now for that, for your friendship. I adore you, I love all of the friends that we have made together and I think that is such great advice, because a lot of us wait around One because we don't know somebody, we don't feel comfortable. We're waiting because our husband said or our spouse said they're going to be home for dinner, so we're going to just wait, and so to just kind of take that leap of faith and kind of have the courage to put those fears aside and just jump right in, Well, I will say the feeling is mutual and I'm glad that we met and we're friends and I am grateful to have you in my life as well.
Speaker 2:And again, it's not easy. I don't know that it ever gets easy to go to something where you don't necessarily know anyone, but I think that in my experience it has been rewarding and it has been worth it. To put myself out there and in general, I think people want to meet other people and they want to form connection and so when you put yourself out there, I think other people see that and they meet you.
Speaker 1:where you are. I agree and I also feel like it's a different level of friendship. I agree and I also feel like it's a different level of friendship the physician-spouse friendship, because at one point or another in this journey, we understand we may not be exactly in each other's footsteps or in each other's shoes, but we understand you don't ever have to explain that. Everybody just gets it and offers the grace, offers the friendship and offers the safe space for each other, and so I'm ever so, so grateful for that. Okay, last question If your life was a reality TV show, what would the title be?
Speaker 2:Well, we are in Nashville and there's a country song by Kenny Chesney called the Good Stuff, and it is about how life is messy and chaotic and it's not perfect, but that's not what the Good Stuff is. The Good Stuff is those moments in the messiness and in the chaos with the people that you love and care about. And so I think, in the spirit of Kenny Chesney, I would name my reality TV show the Good Stuff, because it's not perfect, it's not necessarily Instagram worthy. All the time it's messy, it's chaotic, but in that I'm really trying to focus on spending intentional time with the people that I love deeply and care about, and focus on those moments and creating moments of connection with family and friends.
Speaker 1:As a perfect title. I would definitely watch it, first of all and second. Like. Those are the ones I love to watch the people that are real, you know, on Instagram, the people that are like today was a terrible day, I made a mistake today, and here's what I learned from it. Or you feel so much more comforted knowing they've got a big old pile of laundry, and so do I, and so I love that title and I would 100% watch it.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks, friend. I feel like you get a front receipt being my friend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, what we were talking about before we started the podcast was that I seem to be the friend that will always make you feel better. My laundry pile is probably bigger. I probably have more dishes in my sink. We have dogs that shed, so when you walk by, it's like a big dust bunny following you and it's just real. It is life and it is what it is. So Well, kristen, thank you for being here. I know the listeners are going to get so much from this. If they've got questions, if they want to know more about the app, they want to know more about your journey, what's best? Should they reach out to me and then I can connect you? Would that be the best way? If they've got additional questions about getting out of debt or stresses of board exams, would that be the best thing? I think so.
Speaker 2:My Instagram is private so I'm not super accessible, but I am happy to send you the list of the things that I mentioned today if you want to put it on your Instagram feed, and I'm happy to connect with anyone more personally if they have questions.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's perfect. If you want to send stuff to me, I'll put it in the show notes with some links and then, if they've got anything additional, they can just message me and then we'll get their questions answered and anybody listening. If you have additional questions, comments, you are welcome to send them my way. Share the episode with somebody that you think may need to get out of their comfort zone. They may need to just go do the thing that they don't feel comfortable doing, because you never know the friend that you're going to meet when you actually go to the event. So, kristen, thank you again for being here, your time, and I just value your friendship. Well, thank you, amanda, this has been fun.
Speaker 2:So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you, so fun and, as always, till next time. That's a wrap on this episode of Behind the White Coat. I hope today's conversation left you feeling more understood and supported, and if you enjoyed this episode, I would love for you to subscribe, leave a review or share it with another physician spouse. Your support helps more of us to connect. Keep in mind, this podcast is for you, so let's keep this conversation going. Dm me on Instagram at Amanda Barron Realtor, with your thoughts, topic ideas, questions or even guest suggestions. I would really love to hear from you. Thanks for spending part of your day with me and remember you are never in this alone. See you next time.