#30| Resentment, Stillness, And The Quiet Work Of Love

We explore how medical training strains family life and how five simple pillars can rebuild trust, ease resentment, and create more peace at home. Sarah Payne shares practical tools for calmer conversations, stronger self-talk, and small daily habits that change the tone of love.

• life during medical school, residency, and rotations
• distance and missed milestones as hidden costs
• why resentment is a window into unmet needs
• moving from scorekeeping to solutions as a team
• seeing your partner’s highest version with respect
• daily gratitude as attention training
• stillness for less reactivity and better listening
• one person shifting the whole relationship
• first steps to apply the five pillars today
• Sarah’s book, podcast, and ways to connect

Learn more about Sara Payne’s work as a relationship coach and explore her book on her official website and follow her on Instagram for more updates. 

If you enjoyed this episode, I would love for you to subscribe, leave a review, or share it with another physician spouse.

DM me on Instagram or email me at amanda@abtnhomes.com with your thoughts, topic ideas, questions, or even guest suggestions.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hello to everyone, and welcome to today's episode. I have a treat for you today. We are focusing on the messy, the beautiful, and the real side of relationships. My guest today knows how to turn relationship chaos into connection gold. She is a master certified relationship coach, host of Rock Solid Relationships Podcast, author of It Just Takes One, Proud Wife, and Mama Four. She lives in the stunning mountains of Colorado, and she's on a mission to help us build rock solid relationships. Please join me in welcoming Sarah Payne.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Yay! I want you to just follow me around my invited person.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Thank you. I'm so glad you are here. And like just reading through all of that, I'm like, man, I gotta step up my game. This is like crazy. And I feel like I'm busy enough with two kids, let alone you've got four plus all the additional accolades. So congrats to you. And I'm just honored to have you here. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it, Amanda. Yeah. And before we dive into all of my questions, um, get deep into your book. I just want the listeners to just get to know you a little bit better. I want to kind of rewind if you want to let them know a little bit more about your family or what it's like being married to medicine and where you guys kind of are at in that medical journey, and then how you began to realize that you wanted to specialize in relationships. So let's start there.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

So, like you said, I live we live in Colorado. My husband has been like out of residency, out of training for going on 11 years. And we got married right as he was finishing his undergraduate degree. So I was there for we were together for all of medical school and residency and all that. And we had our kids like all along the way. We didn't really wait to time. So and I'm so thankful for that now. But my heart goes out to like any families who are in the middle of that because it is no joke. It is no joke.

Life As A Medical Family

SPEAKER_02 2:20

It's it's tough. And was he always there with you, meaning he didn't have to do any away rotations or any of that? Was he like actually in the same city?

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Maybe not actually there, but yeah, we spent the better part of a year where I lived in my parents' basement with our three, at the time we had three kids. My third child, Davis, he Ryan was not there for like the better part of his first year. Like he saw him roll over through video and you know, just stuff like that. So um, so yeah, we spent some time apart. And then of course, residency in particular is just so intense that it is. It is like I remember once my daughter was three at the time and Ryan happened to be home, and she just looked at him and she's like, What are you doing here? It's like I live here.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Yeah, I remember the same where we were setting the table for dinner, and I actually put a fourth plate out for my husband, and the kids were like, What do you what are you doing? Like, what what is he doing home? And I think it kind of it kind of made him take a step back of like, I'm I'm gonna be home for dinner, but it was just their norm. And my husband did a rotation away in DC, he was in Cincinnati for a year, and I think my kids were two and five at the time that he was there, and so it's it's tough. And remind me, and then um obviously the listeners, what is his specialty? So he's a podiatry. So he's a phone angle surgeon. Okay, yeah, yeah. No, it's it's tough. And so with all of that, is that what kind of guided you into wanting to go into the whole relationship specialty, or was that something else entirely?

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Ever since going through this whole process, I've had like such a special place in my heart for medical spouses. It's like instantly like if I meet them and they say my spouse is a physician, I'm like, say no more. Like I feel so connected to you. And so when I became a certified life coach, it was just made sense to me. Like, I want to help that group of people that's kind of like, I don't want to say underserved, but like what you what you're doing is so great because you're creating a community where like they can talk about it, you know, because I didn't find that there was like a line outside the door, like of people wanting to know how hard it was to offensive.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Right, right. And you want to, you know, give them the good, the bad, and the ugly and be there to help them. But in the same breath, what I have found is it's kind of taboo to complain, or it's kind of like this is what I signed up for, but do you really know what you're getting into? No. And so we had no idea. Yeah, yeah. And so I do think that it is a huge need. And thank you for doing all the things you're doing. But I think it sometimes takes people a minute to really stop and discuss it and tell people how they're honestly feeling about things through that journey.

Distance, Rotations, And Family Strain

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Yeah, because so many of us have heard in response to like, it's hard, like, oh, must be like must be nice. You know. And so I think we guard ourselves like, where's this the safety? And not that you have to be married to a physician to understand it, but you you know you're probably not gonna get the response. Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

And I think it is hard for some people to understand or relate in a friendship relationship setting when it's the third time you've had to cancel plans that maybe y'all have made because of some sort of something that happens out of your control, whether it's a call schedule, a sick kid, and you've got nobody else that can help you with that. That I think sometimes it's nice when people just get it. And like you said before, say no more. I understand. I am here for you, and whatever you need, I've got you. Yes. Well, in your book, I'm gonna just jump right in. It is titled, It Just Takes One. And you mention that you have five game-changing pillars that you have laid out for creating outstanding relationships. Now, without giving too much away in the book, I would love just a top level of tell us a little bit more about those pillars or how they apply in a relationship setting.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah, definitely. And the book is focused mostly on like your relationship with your significant other, but I will say that all other principles apply to like with your children, with your mother-in-law, with any person in your life that you want to have a better relationship with. So the first pillar is to use resentment as a window. And what I mean by that is I think resentment is one of those emotions that we kind of hide from because it's kind of like jealousy or envy. It's like, I don't want to admit that I'm feeling that way. Right. You feel bad, you feel guilty. Yeah. And we make it mean so many things about like our relationship. If I'm resenting my partner, then that means we don't have a good relationship. And really what I have found in working with so many clients and in my own marriage as well, is like resentment is just a window. And so when we can be curious about it, it can tell us what we're believing that we like what we're wanting in our life that we think we can't have.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Well, not only being curious, but being honest about it too.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yes. You can't solve a problem that you're not willing to believe is that yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

And I I think it is a a hard truth for a lot of people to kind of come to terms with where you're like, I'm not not supposed to feel resentment towards my spouse or their job or what they're working really hard to do. So I love that.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, it can if we get curious about it instead of embarrassed, and then we can let it go. It's like so hard to let it go if we're not willing to take a look at it and be honest. Like you said, be honest about it.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

I agree. Okay, so what's the second one?

Finding Safe Community And Support

SPEAKER_01 8:19

The second one is to get on the same team as your partner. Okay. And I think so many times it's so easy to pit ourselves against each other, you know? But when we focus on solutions instead of scorecards, I like to say, then we then it can be about like, okay, what's the problem here and how do we want to solve it instead of you always, you never.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Right. Or you're not here and I'm having to choose.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Yes. I do this all the time in my own marriage. I'm like, okay, what do I want to have happen here? And how can I work with Ryan on solutions instead of like throwing mud and blame, you know? Because it's so easy to be like, this never would have happened if you had just, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Or I told you so. Or yeah, yeah. Okay. So I love that same team.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

The third pillar is to see your partner as the highest version of themselves. So what I mean by that is to give them the benefit of the doubt and to see them as capable and just someone who I don't want, I don't like to say like to see them as the person that you married because we don't have to look backwards because they're probably not the same person. Yeah. But but sometimes it's helpful to like to remember like the things that attracted you to them that now like maybe you're annoyed by them or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Sure, sure. And I think sometimes it's hard to see that when you're in the thick of things. You're tired, you're stressed, you know, like you were just talking about being on the same team. You've got pulled in different directions now that maybe you have kids or with work. And so um, I do love that, but the highest version of themselves.

unknown 10:04

Yeah.

The Five Pillars Overview

SPEAKER_01 10:04

And one benefit to that I found is that I can't see my husband or my kids if I'm working on my relationship with them as the highest version of themselves, unless I'm being the highest version of myself. So it's like a benefit to you know that like puts me in in a place where I'm forgiving, where I'm uh full of gratitude, where I'm loving them unconditionally, even if I like ask for things to be different.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Yeah, yeah. And having those standards, that's awesome. Okay, next one.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

The fourth pillar is gratitude, which I know gratitude is kind of like a hype word right now. And I think like there's a reason for that. You know, when we focus on what we're grateful for, it just like tunes our brain to look for the things that we're grateful for. Because we can all get up and see everything that's wrong with the world. Like it's so easy. Oh, yeah. And I don't think it's about pushing things under the rug or like not, you know, being honest, but also like I can turn on my faucet and warm water comes out. Like, like even a hundred years ago, that was not the case, you know, just like the like focusing on the little things, of course, the big things as well. But I like to have a practice where every morning I just look for 10 things that I'm grateful for and I write them down. Yeah. And of course, that includes my family and and my home. And then I'm trying to think of one thing this morning that was on my list that was kind of like I have this giant calendar on my wall. I'm so grateful for that calendar because I can just walk in and it has the entire year up there. I'm like for the person who invented this calendar. Yes, yes. And then my kids can come in and be like, what's going on this week? Because, you know, people are so innovative and they create things and then they sell them so that I can buy them. Like just little things like that that we can focus our attention towards.

Pillar 1: Resentment As A Window

SPEAKER_02 11:55

And I think those little things go far. I definitely think a lot of times it's a mind shift, and it is a great perspective for you to be mindful of and the reminders, because I think sometimes life can be hard and we miss some of those little things to be grateful for. And so I do agree with you. I can't say that I always start my morning out with gratitude, but I need to start that practice. So thank you for that reminder.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah. I woke wake up honestly, most mornings can grumpy and it's like a shift.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

So I have one kid that wakes up grumpy and one kid that is just like ready to attack the day.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

I love that. Yeah, I wonder what the difference is in there, the way that they think about that.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Maybe it's their their gratitude in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

No, it could be. It could be at least.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

All right, and then we're on to the last one, number five.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Yeah, the last one is stillness, to incorporate stillness into your life. And I think sometimes like that's another one that's kind of, you know, gained traction or been a buzzword. People talking about meditation all the time. I've been thinking a lot about this and about like it's one that we often don't want to hear. Cause like, really, I just like have to sit there. And I don't necessarily think you have to sit there in the lotus pose to, you know, to like see the benefits of stillness, but like you can go on a walk without your phone. You can like drive in silence, you know, and just like be in the moment, you know. This relates to relationships because when we can like create that pause between like what we're thinking and then what we do about what we're thinking, like we're a lot less reactive. Yeah. And and a less reactive person in their relationships is one that has more safety in their relationships and more better communication, you know? It's not about never saying anything, it's about like thinking it through before you do. And it's so interesting to me and been so crazy to be like, wow, the more I practice just like quieting my mind, the more I can pause in between what is happening and what I do about what's happening.

Pillar 2: Same Team Mindset

SPEAKER_02 14:04

And I think your stillness pillar is my favorite. And it's also the hardest for me. And I think it's the way I'm wired, just go, go, go, go, go, you know, trying to turn my brain off at night to go to sleep and just trying to get through that long to-do list. That I do have to be mindful to be quiet, to not always have my music playing or my headphones on. Cause I'm a big audio book podcaster when I am walking, but to actually take a few minutes and listen to nature. And I think that it's kind of the domino effect with your pillars. Cause I think your stillness allows you to, like you said, not only pause, but to think before you make decisions, to think about problems maybe you're having. It also allows you to have those moments, to have the gratitudes come into your thoughts. And so I I really love that one, but it is definitely the hardest for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

Yeah. And if we just like give you some grace, like you not still probably like helped you survive a lot of years. Yeah. Yeah. And I I agree. And it and it got it helped you to get a lot done. And then I think, but then I think now that you notice it, you can step back and be like, maybe, maybe it will help me to be more still. Because then our minds are more productive when we slow them down.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

I agree. And I also think it has helped me to be a better listener. I think it's also helped me to not overcommit, to overstack my calendar, because having that stillness, that pause to say, you know what, let me get back to you on that before I commit to something. Or it has really helped guide me. But again, it is one of those things that I have to practice all the time. I'm still not great at it, but I'm definitely getting better at it.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

How do you feel like it's helped you become a better listener?

Pillar 3: Highest Version Perspective

SPEAKER_02 16:00

Here's an example. Like with my kids, they're telling me something, but to be still, listen, and pause before I automatically give advice. Maybe they don't need advice. Maybe they just need somebody to listen. If I am still long enough and listen, sometimes they'll work their problem out. And that's all they needed was just to talk through, as opposed to me being the problem solver or giving advice that was not what they needed. And then the same, you know, with my husband or friendships, a lot of times you're not needing the solution. You just needed to get it out and vent.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

I love that. And like what it teaches, like I'm thinking of your kids in particular, like who like are able to like, it's like you feel the urge to tell them what to do. You probably like have really good advice. And probably what they what you would tell them to do would help. But like, like what you're teaching them by like not saying something, you know, kind of figuring it out themselves. And without even saying it, it's like my mom thinks I can handle this.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Yeah. And sometimes I think it's okay, you know, as they're talking to you to say, do you want me to just listen or do you want my advice? Yes. And then they can then kind of figure out which direction do I want to go to. So again, the stillness is hard when you are trying to meditate. That five minutes is long. You know, you kind of keep opening one eye to look at the colour clock. But the more you do it in practice, the the better it gets.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yes, for sure. I kind of like to use the analogy of like, like, I have a son who's learning how to drive, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:40

And oh, same.

Pillar 4: Gratitude In Practice

SPEAKER_01 17:41

And so yeah, so like they practice on this, like, I mean, he doesn't, but I remember practicing on this like driving range, they would call it, right? Where you're like, there's phones and you're like, and then you practice stopping, and then you practice all that. And then that's like meditation in the whenever you're sitting in your chair, right? But then, like the effects of it are like you go on the actual road and you're a better driver, uh-huh. Just in your life, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

So it's it's I feel like I've been doing meditation for years, and I feel like it's still uncomfortable. Sometimes it's not, sometimes I get to this like state of like super chill expansiveness. And other times I'm like, how many more minutes? Like, yes, it's so uncomfortable being with my own thoughts, you know?

SPEAKER_02 18:24

Definitely something that I need to implement and do better with. But thank you for sharing those five pillars. One thing your website has on it that I love so much. It's a quote, and it says, if you don't have peace and love with people you care about most, no other success matters. And I feel like this really spoke volumes to me. And I just wanted you to kind of talk about that a little bit, where it is relationship driven, but also I think it is for yourself as well, you know, who you care about most and having peace and love with those people or that peace and love with yourself. And so first, thank you for saying that because it really did speak volumes, but I would love to just kind of hear your side of it.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Oh, thank you so much. That means a lot to me. I'm so glad it with you. And yeah, it does relate to like not just other people, but to ourselves, you know, because we all have relationships with ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

And if we don't have peace with ourselves, like we can search for it outside of us. And the only reason we would ever feel better is if we started to believe what people told us about ourselves, which we just don't have to wait for that, you know. So often so many of us, myself included, I've been in this situation before where like I'm just waiting for like my spouse to tell me I'm okay, you know? And like, why am I asking him to do something that I'm not willing to do for myself?

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Right. Right. And not only the way that you speak to yourself, but also again, it's kind of cliche that everybody talks about, but your self-care and what you're doing to really care for yourself. So that way, you know, putting on your oxygen mask first, so that way then you can instill and take care of the needs of all of those around you.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Definitely. Yeah, and there's so many ways we can take care of ourselves. And one of the biggest ones I found is like being intentional about how we speak to ourselves and think about ourselves, you know, and recognizing when we're not when we're saying things to ourselves about ourselves that we would never say to a dear friend. Never. Well, that's like a good little session. I'm like, would I say this to like a friend at lunch? And if I wouldn't, I shouldn't be saying it to myself.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Yeah, it's a it's a good, you know, moment for you to kind of check yourself.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Yeah. And then as far as like relationships with other people, I just I just think that's why we're here. That's why we're here. And we can have all the success too. We don't, they don't have to come in opposition to one another, but all the success in the world doesn't mean much if our relationships are aren't what we want them to be.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

I 100% agree. So speaking of relationships, I think a lot of times as an adult, they're hard. They're hard to find friends, hard in a new city. And so what would you say is one of the biggest myths or misconceptions about relationships that you feel your book seeks to bust?

Pillar 5: Stillness And Reactivity

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah, well, it's kind of in the title. And most like conventional wisdom would say it takes two committed people, you know, whether it's like a friendship or to in order to have a rock solid relationship. And my book sets one. And I think when people hear that, like it's like, no, I want, I I've been doing especially like within your community, like I've been doing everything for so long. Like can't my spouse do anything, right? And what actually ends up happening is when one person decides to commit to looking at their relationship differently, the other person, it makes it very easy for the other person to change. But I don't like to start with that because then we go in being like, well, I'm gonna change, so they'll change. And then and then you lose it, right? You know, you mentioned like moving to a new city and relationship hard. And and it's worth questioning all that. Like, what if it didn't have to be hard? When we watch kids, they just make a best friend at park, right? Yeah, yeah. That's one of my favorite beliefs to have about friendships, is like, what if it doesn't have to be hard? And what if there are amazing women everywhere I go? And I find it like I find we have lived all over the country, and there are amazing women in Maine and in Montana and in Colorado, like they're everywhere. And when I look for them, uh-huh, they're there. They are there. But if I am if I'm telling myself it's hard or it'll I'll never find friends like I had in residency, right? Immediately I'm just sharing them to everybody else. And it's likely that they're not going to measure up.

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Yeah, no, I agree and kind of getting out of that comfort zone, putting yourself out there, saying yes, right, to some of the things that you may otherwise feel a little bit uncomfortable. So I do agree with you on that. And as far as these pillars that you have, if somebody's kind of struggling or they're wanting to implement the pillars into their relationship, what would be like the first step that they could do today to kind of move forward to implementing these pillars?

SPEAKER_01 23:20

I think one that might be really effective and easy for them is to like notice when they're feeling resentful and to be curious about it instead of trying to hide it or sometimes like we'll even feel resentful and they'll be like, well, if they just like we just spit it back on our on our kids or on our spouse or whatever. If we're just like, I like they can ask themselves this question what am I wanting or needing that I think I can't have? I learned that from Brene Brown, and and she says, like, resentment's more about jealousy than anything. Yeah. You're believing there's something that you that you can't have that you really want. And then it can open up to well, like, well, I want more time by myself, or I want to have a career like my partner does, that where I feel like I'm making a meaningful contribution, or I just want an app. It can be, it can be any kind of thing, but then you can go to work solving for that instead of right. When we're feeling resentful, we're automatically not on the same team as the people, you know, our partners are our children. And so then it can immediately put us into problem solving mode instead of blaming mode.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

And I feel like all those pillars are they're all in alignment. So they kind of all are the domino effect. So like you're talking about kind of acknowledging that resentment. And then when you're talking about being on the same team and then putting in that gratitude and kind of shifting that mindset and then having that stillness. And so I feel like once you start on one or implementing one, do you feel like then it just kind of starts the domino effect into the other pillars?

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Totally. They totally build upon each other.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

I totally agree. And I hope that all of our listeners not only run out and get your book so that they can read it and implement the five pillars, but that they can also start listening to your podcast. Cause I I think that's uh another great avenue of all of the wisdom that you have to share with us. So thank you. So we are here at the end, and I always ask every guest the same two questions. So I'm gonna fire those your way. So the first one is what advice would you offer your younger self?

Stillness, Listening, And Parenting

SPEAKER_01 25:34

I mean, this is kind of cliche, but I think I would just like give her a hug and be like, you're doing a good job. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. And just you wait. I think I would, you know, just it's like you can enjoy your life now and it's gonna be even better than you can imagine. I just wanna like hug that younger Sarah and in turn, like all of your listeners who are in the thick of all of that. Yeah, you know, that there really is a light at the end of the tunnel. And there the time will come when you're you're gonna have all those things that you are wishing for. And so and then hang in there. Hang in there and enjoy, like enjoy the little things now.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

I think that's great advice. And then the second one is just for fun. So if your life was a reality TV show, what would the title be?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

I mean, if I think back a few years when I was like in anytime, any time in your life is fine. Like, I did all that for this. Like, I remember like getting fresh out of residency and being like, this is what we did all that for. Like it was there's definitely an arrival fallacy. And now it's as I've worked through like I've used the five pillars and worked through resentment and got on the same team as my husband and all of that. It's I don't know the name of this show, but it would be something like this is what I I love reality TV, especially my favorite show is the Great British Bake Off. I think it's so funny. And my favorite thing about it is that they are so they work together. Like they love each other.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Yes. My husband and I watch it together and have said the same thing. I love that show.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

They never talk bad about each other. It's so sweet. No excuses, nothing. Yes, it's just like so it'd be something like that. Yeah, like we did it, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

We are here. Yes. I love that. Well, we are going to forever be friends now because you love that show too. Like it is truly one of my favorites, and we count down until it comes on. So um, well, Sarah, this was such a treat. Your positive energy is just contagious, and I love the the warmth and wisdom that you bring to the table. So it's it's exactly what I needed today and what I also think every relationship needs. So if our listeners would love to connect with you, whether they have questions, want to do some coaching, how can they reach out to you? What's the best way for them to get that set up?

SPEAKER_01 28:12

They can go to my website, serapin.com. And if they want to listen to my podcast and get figure out, like, oh, I want to know more about what she teaches, that it's called Rock Solid Relationships, like you said. And then if they want to look into the book, the book is like, like you can read it in an hour. You could probably know. I read it very quick. I really wanted it to be something that could be just the basics, you know, not like any fluff at all. They can get that on Amazon.

Peace, Self-Talk, And Self-Respect

SPEAKER_02 28:41

I love that. Thank you for your time and for being here. And for those of you listening, hopefully you got some great nuggets from this. Sarah's got so much to share. And please drop a review or just tell somebody that you care about them. It makes such a difference. And I think implementing these five pillars, we will all start seeing how it not only affects us and our relationship with ourselves, but with others. So thank you again, Sarah, for being here.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Thanks for having me, and I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yes, and for all of you listening, until next time. That's a wrap on this episode of Behind the White Coat. I hope today's conversation left you feeling more understood and supported. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love for you to subscribe, leave a review, or share it with another physician spouse. Your support helps more of us to connect. Keep in mind this podcast is for you. So let's keep this conversation going. DM me on Instagram at Amanda Barron Realtor with your thoughts, topic ideas, questions, or even guest suggestions. I would really love to hear from you. Thanks for spending part of your day with me, and remember, you are never in this alone. See you next time.