GAEL UnscriptED
GAEL UnscriptED, the podcast that goes beyond the headlines and handbooks to bring you unfiltered insights from Georgia’s top educational leaders, innovators, and changemakers. Hosted by Ben Wiggins, Executive Director of GAEL, this show dives deep into the challenges, opportunities, and unexpected twists that shape education today.
From leadership strategies to policy discussions—and everything in between—GAEL UnscriptED is your go-to source for candid conversations that make an impact. No scripts. No fluff. Just real talk from those leading the way in Georgia’s schools.
GAEL UnscriptED
Uber Dad to Principal: Leadership Lessons from Kevin Gaines
Kevin Gaines didn't just return to his alma mater – he transformed it. As principal of Hart County High School for the past 13 years, Gaines has cultivated a remarkable legacy of leadership that balances consistency, innovation, and a deeply personal approach to education.
When Gaines stepped into his role in October 2012, he faced a school with revolving-door leadership and a graduation rate hovering around 74%. Rather than making sweeping changes, he took time to listen – to faculty (including eight teachers who had once taught him), to students, and to community members. This deliberate approach paid dividends. Today, Hart County High School boasts a 98% graduation rate and has become a model for connecting education with workforce development.
The College and Career Academy stands as perhaps Gaines' most significant achievement. Through strategic partnerships with local industries like Herring, a German automotive parts manufacturer, students gain real-world experience while still in high school. Some even travel internationally as part of their educational journey, creating opportunities that were unimaginable before Gaines' tenure. "Being able to bridge that gap between the school and industries," Gaines explains, "is our job to produce opportunities for students to succeed."
What truly distinguishes Gaines as a leader is his approach to building school culture. His unique half-day interview process – where candidates visit classrooms, meet department members, and receive student-led tours – ensures new hires align with his vision of school as family. "You spend a lot of time with the people you work with," he notes, emphasizing the importance of finding staff who contribute positively to the school community.
Despite the all-consuming nature of high school leadership, Gaines prioritizes work-life balance. Drawing from his own experience, he advises young administrators never to miss their children's activities for school duties. This philosophy of integration rather than separation has allowed him to sustain his passion for a job that he admits "would be the worst job ever" if he didn't love it.
Want to hear more leadership insights from top education professionals? Subscribe to GAEL UnscriptED wherever you get your podcasts and join the conversation about what makes great school leadership.
Welcome to Gale Unscripted, where leadership meets learning and real conversations drive real impact. I'm Ben Wiggins, Executive Director of Gale. Join us as we go beyond the headlines with Georgia's top education leaders. Let's elevate the conversation. Hello Gale family and welcome back to another episode of Gale Unscripted. We've got a great guest today. We've got Mr Kevin Gaines, principal of Hart County High School. Long-time Gale member and GASSP member, Kevin, introduce yourself to our audience today.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I'm Kevin Gaines, like you said, principal of Hart County High School. Just finished up my 13th year as principal and been GASP president as well, in various roles within GASP and then obviously moving up to president-elect and then president coming up. So looking forward to being part of that yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, before we get too far in this, I to brag on kevin as a father. He did something. I told him she'd get father of the year points forever. Uh, tell us about a little trip you took down to miami and who you went to see yeah, well, uh, my wife and daughter are swifties, and so uh right now. Are you not a swifty? Uh, well, I mean obviously I get to listen to the karaoke going down the road, but anyway.
Speaker 2:so we drove to Miami so they could go see her in concert. And so we was just my son and I were just expensive Uber drivers for that weekend Was it a great concert. I mean, I heard it from the outside. I didn't go to the concert. Oh, you didn't go, you really were an Uber driver, we just dropped them off and then we toured all over Miami and Fort Lauderdale and all that stuff Even more proof that you should be father of a decade for that trip.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Well, you just mentioned you have been the principal of Hart County High School for 13 years. You're about to start year 14. Talk to us about that a little bit. I mean that consistency has to be a positive impact on the school, the staff, the students, the families, the consistency Talk about what that means to you.
Speaker 2:Well, it's important, when you establish those expectations and routines and rules within your school and within the faculty, to be able to have consistency there. Before I got there they had, you know, been a constant turnover. They'd had three principals in the last four years before I got there. And so just being able to have somebody established and you know within the community and being able to, you know, work with students, work with faculty, I think it's a very important piece to continue to have that consistent CWIN leadership.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Tell our listeners how you got started in administration. When did you get that first admin job?
Speaker 2:So I was in the classroom, I taught high school math for nine years and then I had the opportunity to go to Stevens County as assistant principal, which was a little unique because, growing up in Hart County, being alumni there, stevens County was a rival. So I joined the rival and that was interesting. People say who are you going to pull for? And I'm like the one that signs the paycheck, there you go.
Speaker 1:That's who you pull for.
Speaker 2:So next thing, you know I'm wearing a headdress at a pep rally.
Speaker 1:So I mean you know you do what you got to do, but it was a great place to work.
Speaker 2:I enjoyed my time there. I was there for three years and then had the opportunity Rob Brown, who was the principal before me at Hart County. He had a superintendent opportunity and left, so I actually took over October 1 of 2012. So the school year had already started. That was interesting as well. Wow, Coming in in the middle of school year. But you know you do a lot of listening that first year, which is what I did so that was, that was my start.
Speaker 1:So that's awesome. So you came back home, your alma mater, to be the high school principal you mentioned. You said when you came in that first year you did a lot of listening.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great segue into a question what is that art of leadership? You're coming in even though you were from there. You're still Kevin Gaines, but you've been gone and you're coming into a new situation. How do you do that as a leader? A lot of new leaders have the urge to change a lot of things very quickly, but you made the comment that you did a lot of listening. Talk about that.
Speaker 2:Well, obviously, again coming back into my alma mater, I suddenly had eight teachers that taught me that now work for me, and so it was a good thing, I was a good student.
Speaker 2:But that's why I tell our faculty now you know, be nice to your kids and they'll be your boss one day. That's right, you never know. You know, you do have to do a lot of listening, and a lot of leaders get into that role in kind of a bull in China shop. They want to make a lot of changes and flip everything upside down, and especially when there's been a constant turnover of leadership, you've got to really listen and hear people, hear what they got to say, not only from your faculty but in the community as well, and so I spent some time. So coming in mid-year, I didn't have the opportunity to make a bunch of changes.
Speaker 2:I had to really listen, and so that was a positive being able to listen to concerns and things that needed to be adjusted. So, coming in, I was able to do that and, being from there, there was a little bit of trust already there, versus having to build that trust there was a lot of trust already there, since I was from there and people were familiar with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you do have to build trust. That's important.
Speaker 1:And there's really only one way to do that and that's, over time, modeling that trust. Modeling that trust. I used to always think when I went to a new job, I would always be up front with the people and say you know, I chose to come here, but you didn't choose me, meaning my staff. So I always felt like it was important for me to learn their culture. I went back home for a job one time, but it was still important. I'd been gone a long time. It was important for me to learn that culture and to earn that trust. I think that's a great, great point you bring up At this time. We'd like to thank one of our partners with Gale BPI Photography, and they do a fantastic job. They've been a partner for a long time and we are extremely appreciative of them. Many of you go to Gale conferences. You see them taking pictures, chips all over the stage and we're giving out our awards and I believe they're very involved with GASSP as well.
Speaker 2:They are. They're very involved with GASSP and Hart County High School. They do all of our pictures and my son just did his senior picture, so I had a great experience with that. They do a great job.
Speaker 1:So if you're out there, you're a principal and you're looking for a photographer to do all of your photography business at your school. Bpi is an awesome choice and I'm sure Chip would love to speak with you about that opportunity. Well, kevin, talk to us. I tell people all the time, being a high school principal was the best job I ever had. I loved being a high school principal. What do you love about that job? Because it's tough and it's demanding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's definitely not easy. People ask me all the time hey, how do you like being a high school principal? And I said if I didn't love it?
Speaker 1:it had to be the worst job ever.
Speaker 2:Because just the demands and really now with technology, like you can't step away, like there's no way to step away anymore and people say, just turn your phone off, I can't do that. But just being able to know that every day I get opportunity to make a difference, make it a difference in, you know, almost 1,100 students and over 100 staff members every single day, is something that I cherish and something I enjoy and I enjoy watching our students grow from coming into a ninth grader to then having a plan to what they want to pursue, you know, after high school, and seeing them to go on and do big things and some people decide to stay local and some people go on and do a lot of other things out in the community and out in this round state and the US and even the world. I'll enjoy seeing that.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I always love watching those ninth graders mature and progress to that 12th grade year graduation. Can you think of any stories of maybe a former student that's just really made an impact on you as the principal, watching them overcome some adverse situations or just be incredibly successful?
Speaker 2:Well, there's really a lot of examples I could use. I will say one more recent. We just had a young man that was slated to get drafted in the NFL draft. Hard County has never had anybody get drafted in the NFL draft. We've had some to sign free agent contracts but never get drafted. And he was slated to get drafted Cameron Rucker. He was a defensive end at the University of North Carolina but he got injured against North Carolina State. He had a gruesome leg injury and so he didn't get drafted and so, but he persevered through all that. He just signed a contract with the Baltimore Ravens. So you know, just seeing someone that's faced a little bit of adversity and you know he's got great folks, great family as well and just facing adversity and then overcome that. I enjoy seeing people overcome adversity and just don't throw in the towel. It's so easy in life to just throw in the towel and give up.
Speaker 1:I'd love to see a kid and he's a great example and he's working hard right now at OTAs and hopefully we'll make the team. That's awesome, that'd be wonderful. Talk to us a little bit about, maybe. What are some accomplishments during your? 13 years there as principal, that the school has achieved, that you're super proud of.
Speaker 2:Well, you know one thing when I got there, our graduation rate was about 70% In the class of 2012,. I think it was 74%. Last year it was 98%, and we got recognized by dropout prevention Just some things that we put in place. And of course, things have changed. Early on you had the graduation test and things like that. But just putting some safety nets in place and doing that, because in 2005, the graduation rate was 55%, wow. And so you know, just being able to make a difference there, that's something I'm proud of. And we also, you know, we received the College of Career Academy grant through the state when that was a big thing and I was one of the grant writers for that. And so to see that come through from, you know, an old CTA building to this very nice College of Career Academy and we're we're able to do some wonderful things through that.
Speaker 2:Between dual enrollment and then all the opportunities with industry, we had a lot of industry partners. So we have an industry partner called Herring. That's up on right, you know there's a. There's one exit in Hart County on I-85, right before you get to South Carolina, and so we have a lot of industry on that exit. We've got an industrial park, and so we have a company called Herring. It's a German company that makes a part for automobile. And so we have students. We have a great partnership with them, and then we have students that go to Germany and they'll do their education and just a great opportunity. There's just a lot of opportunities now that we've seen come through over the years that used to not be there and so for students, and just a lot of great opportunities for our students now, and so to see all that come through from. You know our whole facility is. The academic part of the building was built in 2007. So you know everything is new and just being able to see our campus grow like it has been very gratifying for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome, that College and Career Academy. I just saw that not too long ago, Turner County School District, they got a College and Career Academy. Talk a little bit as a high school principal maybe about how important it is you got a 98% graduation rate. That is huge for your local economy, your business and industries. They need good skilled employees.
Speaker 1:But talk about with that College and Career Academy and CTAE how you work with maybe your local chamber and your economic development and how all that comes together and the school district plays a critical role in the success of the hart county economy it does, and we have a board of directors for our college of career academy.
Speaker 2:We have a ceo and his role is basically, you know, bridging that gap between the school and the industries and he works with various partners. Steve Burton, he does a great job at our school with that, but you know, it's our job to produce, you know, if they're wanting to go straight to work, produce opportunities and a lot of these kids are getting opportunities, making money even while they're still in high school, work-based learning, making a very good salary, well above minimum wage, and so just having these opportunities and a lot of these kids these companies have found if we can get a kid in high school, and the thing that really benefits us, when the state allowed schools to hire somebody 16, they used to when we first got into College Career Academy, we kept running into a roadblock They've got to be 18, they've got to be 18. They've got to be 18.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:But when Georgia allowed these companies to get a break on their workers' comp stuff?
Speaker 2:that really opened a lot of doors for us. So now those kids can go in and these companies have said you know, if I take this kid and he's willing to come to work for me and I can train him and I can pay for schooling and do all that, I'm liable to keep that kid. And so you know being able to do that. We got several, not just Heron, we have several companies that do that with our students and it's just a great opportunity. We got kids and we had a kid at our career fair. He's still working for the company that.
Speaker 2:He was one of the first, I guess, kind of pioneer students with our college and career academy that went to this local industry and they pay for schooling and now he's a supervisor for them and all that. It's important that your chamber and your industries work closely with your school and that board of directors bridges that gap because in that board of directors you have the chamber on there, you have, you know, the main street there in town. You got all these various industries in the community represented on that board and they all come to the table about, you know, different students and the things that are needs and things like that and it's our job to try to meet those needs and so you know, trying to fit that pathway, we actually have a lot of equipment that we have at Herring right now so they can train our students up there in the things they need. That's awesome. So that's awesome that's awesome.
Speaker 1:That's a great point if there's a new principal out there. I can't stress enough the importance of having a great relationship with your chamber and your economic development, business and industry. They can be your biggest supporters of your local school district that's right.
Speaker 2:Work well with them. And the first when I become principal, the chamber president was the first. The executive director of our chamber was the first person I met with because, I felt like they played a vital role in the success.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Well, we talked about what you love the most about being a high school principal what keeps you up at night?
Speaker 2:Not as much now that I got an order, you know but, you know, when there's situations where, um, you know a student, you just think it. Can they escape the environment they're in or are they going to become a product of their environment? A lot of times I tell my wife was like if they just lived in our home it would be a whole, total different situation. But a lot of times you see those kids and I've had many of these conversations that you can overcome, like you don't have to become a product to your environment. You can overcome that and we've had a lot of kids do that.
Speaker 2:But on the flip turn we've had kids that they don't get out great environments in their home life.
Speaker 1:And that many, many, many, many times the structure, the order, the routine that they get from their schools is what helps them have a chance to be successful.
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Well, we talked about a student that maybe had a special impact on you as a high school principal all these years. Let's talk about a staff member. Is there a staff member during your career that you've just really watched? Maybe they were a young teacher and they blossomed into an incredible teacher now I know it's hard as a principal. You're thinking, oh, I'm afraid some of my people will watch this. I want to list all of them, but are there any out there? Maybe without giving names?
Speaker 2:You know there's a lot of great examples. I take a lot of passion on hiring. I think hiring is the best way to get better. But you know, I've been able to hire some great people while I've been at a high school. I will say, though an example, high school. I will say, though an example we we've had a teacher that has been battling cancer for the last gosh four or five years, undergoing chemo treatments and all that, and just kept teaching the whole time, going through treatments and all that. So she has really, you know, been a great example on perseverance and pushing through and she is retired. Perseverance and pushing through and she is retired Wow, she just retired this year and but just seeing her, you know, battle through that over the years, you know it's been inspiring to a lot of people to see that and she didn't let it get her down. You know, despite the battles, that she would go through, and so you know.
Speaker 2:Those are when you see somebody like that that you know. Those are when you see somebody like dad, that you know. Just think like they're going through a lot, but they're going. They come in every day to make a difference in their classroom.
Speaker 1:Huge inspiration and model for students and the adults in the building and the community. You mentioned in hiring that you try to do a really good job hiring. Talk about that. What do you do when you're looking for people and interviewing? Do you have anything particular in your structure and how you do things?
Speaker 2:So we do a little bit different. I actually stole this idea from Mark Wilson.
Speaker 1:That's a good one to steal from.
Speaker 2:Mark is a great mentor of mine. He's one of my earliest Gale memories and I'll talk about it this summer when I'm at the conference in my speech.
Speaker 2:But we do half-day interviews so they come in, um they we, we interview them, obviously, but then they go in every classroom. So if it's an english teacher, they go in all the english classrooms for 15 minutes allows our teachers that they're going to be working with, to meet them. Our teachers like that. They get and they get to meet the candidates and then we do a student-led tour. We are big on PBIS at our school and we have PBIS ambassadors, so if I'm hiring a teacher, those same kids do the tour for every candidate for the position.
Speaker 2:And they answer questions about each candidate and then they answer questions of which one they like the best, and I mean nine times out of 10, the students are right every time, like you know, because we're looking for people that are going to be a good fit. You ask anybody in my building. I'm very, you know, I push family. I want that kind of atmosphere. You spend a lot of time with the people you work with, and so you know I'm big on family and it's got to be somebody that's going to be positive, that we feel is going to make a big impact to our building and the people that do interviews with me my other administrators and department heads, things like that they know if we start asking questions and then suddenly I start jumping, I start skipping.
Speaker 1:Because fit's important, isn't it? You've got a culture there and you want to continue that culture, but I will say it's getting harder.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, it's getting more competitive. You get in situations where people have multiple offers and things like that, so it's getting a little bit more challenging. On that, end as well, but it's just something we take a lot of pride in.
Speaker 1:Wow, principals out there he just said they spend a half day with each candidate for the interview process, between visiting all the classrooms, giving that teacher input from that department and the student tours and talking to the students about feedback. I think that's a phenomenal idea. If I was still in the game, I'd steal that idea from them. There you go.
Speaker 2:It's really worked well for us and you could just you know, because it really truly like I said, I got this idea from Mark. Now, mark makes them teach, so that was one thing he did. He makes them teach like a mini lesson.
Speaker 1:I don't make them do that.
Speaker 2:But I remember early on in my career when I was looking for my first teaching job. You know, you go into the front office, you get, you know, funneled over into a conference room, all these people there, you're done. You walk out and you really know nothing about that school. And I believe, you know, I believe it's kind of like a marriage. You just got to work for both sides because you could think they are the greatest candidate in the world, but if they're not too fond of you, it's not going to be the best situation. It's got to work for both sides and so it's been a win for us. And I've had, out of all these years I've done this and I've been doing this this way, probably for the last seven or eight years, I've only ever, ever, had one time where somebody said, well, I just can't do a half day and I'm like no then you're not, yeah, you're not harking high, well you know you talk about, it's getting harder to find teachers.
Speaker 1:They have plenty of job offers. So I think it's important for us to remember, when we bring people in, that we think we're interviewing. They're interviewing us as well, and so I would think, if I was a candidate and I'm interviewing at this school district, that gave me the 30-minute interview with six questions, and I'm spending a half a day in getting to meet your staff and meet students. That's going to say something to me, so I think that's a great idea. Well, you've been a longtime high school principal, going into year 14. We talked about the job is really demanding. So, to end up this podcast, talk to us about how, because family is very important to you.
Speaker 2:You.
Speaker 1:Ubered all the way to Miami for the Taylor Swift concert.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 2:Go about making sure that you do the best job possible to create that work-life balance with a job that is all-consuming at times and I'll be honest with you, early on in my career I probably didn't do as good a job to be early on in my career, I probably didn't do as good a job. Um, you know, there was times where, you know, I coached t-ball wearing a shirt and tie, um, but I the one of the things especially my young administrators that have young kids I tell them I do not sign up for a sports duty or an after school duty.
Speaker 2:the same night your kid has a ball game, don't let me find you at this school, missing your kid's game, because I've been there and that's you only have one opportunity to do that, and so I really stress, you know, to make sure you make that balance and for us, like it just become a family thing. Like my kids and wife have been to pig shows, they've been to competition, cheer meets, obviously, friday night football, they, they've went to everything until the kids got old enough for like I'll just stay at home, you know.
Speaker 2:But you know, because they were young, um, and so you know that they just they just went with us. They just become a part of the school atmosphere and it was that way when I was an assistant principal, stevens County, and it was that way, you know, being at heart, and so you know, you just have to, you just have to embrace that. I think the challenge is sometimes is when people drive a long distance. I mean, when I was at Stevens County it was a 35 minute drive from each way and so it was a little bit more challenging because I didn't live there.
Speaker 2:But just trying to you have to just kind of marriage that all together, you know, and you got to have a. You know you got to have supportive spouse and kids. You know they they refer to my wife as the first lady sometimes but you know you got to have somebody that's going to be supportive. You got to have somebody that's going to be that you know, hey, it's. I know it's our anniversary, but we've got to go to this ballgame and embrace that aspect of things you know that is just going to happen, and so I've been fortunate to have a family that has embraced that.
Speaker 1:That's awesome Valentine's Day at a Tuesday night basketball game.
Speaker 2:Hey, I'll tell you, I was at Stevens County and it was Valentine's.
Speaker 1:We had a basketball game on Valentine's night, that very thing.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to rush home, get pulled over for speeding on the way home. Didn't get a ticket, though, but it was Valentine's night, you know still had to try to. You know, fit everything together.
Speaker 1:That's right. Well, thank you, kevin, going to do another podcast episode with you as well in the future, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Gale, Unscripted.
