GAEL UnscriptED
GAEL UnscriptED, the podcast that goes beyond the headlines and handbooks to bring you unfiltered insights from Georgia’s top educational leaders, innovators, and changemakers. Hosted by Ben Wiggins, Executive Director of GAEL, this show dives deep into the challenges, opportunities, and unexpected twists that shape education today.
From leadership strategies to policy discussions—and everything in between—GAEL UnscriptED is your go-to source for candid conversations that make an impact. No scripts. No fluff. Just real talk from those leading the way in Georgia’s schools.
GAEL UnscriptED
Inside the 2025 GAEL Legal Issues Conference with Cory Kirby of PKKN
Attorney Cory Kirby pulls back the curtain on the most pressing legal challenges facing Georgia's schools today in this engaging and informative conversation. With 25 years of experience representing school districts, Kirby shares why the upcoming Fall Legal Issues Conference (October 29-31 in Athens) is essential for district leadership teams.
The landscape of school law is shifting dramatically. House Bill 268 brings what Kirby describes as "massive changes" to enrollment procedures, withdrawal processes, safety protocols, and SRO requirements—changes that every district must understand to ensure compliance. Beyond legislation, the conference addresses emerging court decisions that impact special education, evolving disciplinary trends, and human resources considerations, including First Amendment issues, Title IX regulations, and policies related to transgender students.
Perhaps most alarming is Kirby's revelation about disciplinary issues creeping into younger grades. "We're now getting down to elementary and primary," he explains, sharing a shocking recent case involving a six-year-old bringing a firearm to school. These evolving challenges require new approaches and a deeper understanding of the law from administrators at all levels.
The conference strategically focuses on student services, special education law, and human resources—the three areas most impacted by new legislation and legal precedents. With both in-person and virtual attendance options, districts can ensure their key personnel access this vital information. However, Kirby emphasizes the value of attending in person, where participants can network with colleagues and consult directly with attorneys between sessions.
Whether you're a superintendent, building-level administrator, or district specialist in student services, special education, or human resources, this professional learning opportunity provides essential knowledge to navigate today's complex educational environment. Register now through the GAEL website to ensure your district is represented!
Welcome to Gale Unscripted, where leadership meets learning and real conversations drive real impact. I'm Ben Wiggins, executive Director of Gale. Join us as we go beyond the headlines with Georgia's top education leaders. Let's elevate the conversation. Hello Gail members, and welcome to another exciting episode of Gail Unscripted. Today, with this huge smile on his face, we have someone that I'm sure most of you know and are very familiar with, but we have Corey Kirby with us today, are very familiar with, but we have Corey Kirby with us today. We're going to talk a little bit about the upcoming Fall Legal Issues Conference in Athens on October 29th through 31st at the Classic Center. Corey, most of our members know you very well, but I'm sure we have a number of new assistant principals or new leaders in different roles. Why don't you tell them a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2:I will do my best. First of all, thank you, Ben and Ivy, for inviting me to come do this. This is my first podcast, so I'm a little nervous. As Ben said, my name is Corey Kirby. I'm a partner in Pereira, Kirby, Kinzinger and Wynn. Please make sure, Ivy, that you send that out, so everybody knows how to say the name.
Speaker 2:I have been representing school districts for approximately 25 years. We have approximately 13 to 14 lawyers and it's very similar. If you're familiar with Harbin and Hartley Harbin, hartley and Hawkins whatever ideation of previous firm it's basically the same thing. There are some of us who do more special ed than others, some of us who do more personnel than others, so we try to do that, but we generally try to say that we are a comprehensive legal firm for a very small, very specified niche and that's school law. But we enjoy it. It's a lot of fun. I enjoy it. We get some very unique issues and the last two weeks we've had some rather interesting issues and we'll continue to have those issues. But nevertheless, it's kind of fun.
Speaker 1:There's probably a school district calling you right there with a unique issue.
Speaker 2:Yes, it was Sorry about that. It never ends, does it?
Speaker 1:Occupational hazard calling you right there with a yes, it was sorry about that. Never ends occupational hazard. But um, so you said you. You know that you all represent roughly 120 or so approximately.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir and some of those. Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but you represent them solely, meaning you are the attorney of record for that school board. Yes, some the way understand it. They may have a local attorney, but then they have you all on retainer. That's correct. So that local attorney, when it becomes complicated issues that are school related, they'll pick up the phone and they call you. That's right. Yeah, yeah, so you'd be surprised. Most, like you said, most school districts out there have some connection with you all and you all are regarded as the school law experts in the state of Georgia.
Speaker 2:Well, we appreciate that and I appreciate that very much.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about the Fall Legal Issues Conference. It's coming up October 29th through 31st in Athens. No better place to be than in Athens, georgia, finishing up the Fall Legal Issues on Halloween. That would be great, will you be?
Speaker 2:in a costume that day? No, I will not be, but I understand Ivy is going to be in a costume.
Speaker 1:Well, that would be great, I think, if Phil and Ivy would wear a costume on that last day.
Speaker 2:it would probably add to the excitement, I'll tell you what. If you can get Phil to agree to a costume, I'll buy it. We can do it. I don't know which one I like that.
Speaker 1:Well, it's all kind of things Maybe find out what his favorite movie is, or something. But on the fall legal issues, there's basically three main areas that you all go over, and that's student services, that's special ed law and that's human resources correct, that's right. Elaborate on each of those just a little bit.
Speaker 2:Well, we've been doing this for quite a while now, as you know, and what we've determined is that that seems to be the three main areas that folks want to learn a little bit about and, quite candidly, that's the three areas that when the legislature happens and passes new bills, those are the three main areas that these bills seem to address. There's a fourth, dealing with governance. That would deal with just boards of education, but Gale members don't necessarily that's not the case aren't necessarily as interested in board matters as they are in what they do. So this year we're going to really focus on the new legislation. So we'll handle that with at least two to three, actually four, sessions dealing with that. We'll deal specifically with House Bill 268, various changes that has with enrollment, withdrawal, safety and security, sros, et cetera. So I would suggest that if you happen to have one of your areas dealing with any of that, that you send someone to this.
Speaker 2:This is a very big, large bill that makes massive amounts of changes to what we do and how we do it. Yeah, with a lot of different timelines, different timelines, policies, requirements, and I think it's just important that someone from every district has an understanding of this. Now we're going to go into a deep dive. So I'm sorry, we find it interesting. Some folks may not, but it's just vital that you have someone there who can explain, for just example, the new changes with enrollment, the new changes with withdrawal, when parents can receive educational records, how quickly you have to provide them. I think that's just important. We also are going to go through some new Supreme Court and federal lawsuits dealing with special education. I think it's important and I know our special ed folks. If I had to pick one area that seems to be on top of new legal trends, they seem to be on top of it just about more than anyone.
Speaker 1:They do.
Speaker 2:They need this and I think it's going to be very important for them. We have some very good lawyers who specialize in special education. They're going to be here to go through those with us, and then, of course, our student services folks will go through our normal. Here's some new state board decisions that you need to be aware of. See some of the trends that we see when we do special excuse me, when we do student services work, et cetera. Human resources is an area where we have a lot of new Leaders Leaders. We have a lot of new cases, federal cases that we would need to address as well, and then we're going to talk a little bit more about our federal situation where our current administration is going. With that, we're going to look at various things. Well, right now we could discuss First Amendment and free speech.
Speaker 1:Yeah, would be something Very timely topic and subject.
Speaker 2:We're going to talk, obviously, about Title IX. We seem to have to discuss Title IX every single year, so we're going to try to look at that. Transgender issues are going to come up, not only with our state legislature and what they've done, but with what's happened in the federal arena as well. So I think it's a good survey of what's happening. It's what we see a lot of, and so I just think it's important that folks at least get to hear some of the updates that we have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's critical that if you're a superintendent out there or a district leader or a building leader, I just think it's critical that at least one person from that district be in attendance at the Fall Legal Issues Conference. We'll talk in just a couple of minutes about the live stream option with that as well. But I think you know from student services school safety. You know more and more school districts have school safety directors, yep, even if they just came for that portion of the conference or watched virtually, for that I think is huge Human resources. I know that professionals go to GASPA, which is a fantastic conference.
Speaker 1:Phil's usually there. He gives an update, but he's given a short update. That's right. I know you'll be speaking at the GASES conference this week in fact but the fall legal issues is where you really go into depth and they really get that information and then they can go back home to their district and re-deliver it to the leaders that need it. I always get nervous about those districts that I don't see represented there.
Speaker 2:I really do think it's important. What we try to do, the thing that Phil has always preached with us is this is our opportunity. If we had one opportunity to provide educators the information that is timely, is new, that we see. This is our opportunity. We have other presentations, but we really don't get to go down into the weeds. This is where we get to go down into the weeds a little more and try to provide it. We come up with powerpoints. We make those available so, like you said, if somebody's here at the conference they can read, deliver it yeah to their school.
Speaker 1:So that's what we're hoping happens yeah, think about student services and hearings and all the problems. I know y'all get tons of phone calls about that. What percentage do you think the hearings are compared from middle school to high school?
Speaker 2:Candidly. That's an interesting question. When we first started it seemed to be. When I first started it seemed to be more high school was where we were having the issues, and then it sort of went to where, middle school. Right now I think it's a decent amount of both. I think it's about the same.
Speaker 2:What I find is that, depending upon the fraction, I can kind of guess where it is. Typically, if we're going to address things like threats and all that that contains, I, that's usually going to be middle school and maybe ninth grade. That's typically where it is. If we're dealing with vapes or something like that, that tends to be more high school. At least generally speaking, that's what we see. But you're right. I wish I could say this hasn't become a trend. But what seems to be more and more of a trend is not just high school and middle school. We're now getting down to elementary and primary. Wow, it's shocking. I had a call just the other day where we had a six-year-old bring a weapon, an actual firearm, to school and we're trying to figure out what we do with a six-year-old. So it's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so if I'm a middle school principal or an elementary principal out there high school principal, I think it's wise that I send someone from my team, an assistant principal, someone to go. I think part of having people from the district and school level go into the fall legal issues you know we talk about the leader pipeline and how the turnover is so constant. I think that's why it's important to have people that are coming to the fall legal issues conference so they're learning the information and they're getting some knowledge and experience before they're sitting in that seat.
Speaker 2:Oh, most definitely some knowledge and experience before they're sitting in that seat. Oh, most definitely. The way I see it, the turnover, as you said, is quite massive. Assistant principals seem to be the ones that turn over more. I think if you're a brand-new assistant principal, this is a good way. We'll get basics and we'll get more advanced. So if you're a veteran administrator, you're going to get something out of this as well. We try to do that when we draft our PowerPoints and we come up with our agenda. We try to get it to where brand new folks will get something, veteran folks will get something. It's not easy to do, but we've done enough to where we're able to do that. I think it works At least.
Speaker 1:I hope it does. Yeah, and y'all do a great job of splitting up the conference. So if I was in my home district and let's just say I'm a student services director, then I can either come up to Athens on those one or two days that are specifically talking about those issues If I'm a special ed leader, I can come on that day or I can watch virtually. Y'all do a really good job of kind of doing that. I think that makes it easier for our leaders back home. But I would just strongly encourage every school district to have representation again at this conference, whether they're in person or virtually. Student services, special education, human resources and, of course, like you said, with House Bill 268. If you've got a student safety director now there's more and more that would be a great session for them to attend as well.
Speaker 2:We try to cover as much as we can. We also feel is very adamant. We have to make it entertaining. So that's something we try to do. If we don't try to make it entertaining, it just wears people out.
Speaker 1:And y'all do. You make it very engaging. And I think I would say to our members, if you've never been, the benefit of coming in person is that you've got access to their team of attorneys that are there and interacting and engaging. In between sessions I see people coming up to you all the time and asking questions hey, what about this? Or we've had this situation. Or I want to follow up with you about a situation.
Speaker 2:Oh, most definitely. At the very least, there's at least two, if not three, of us here throughout the entire conference in the mornings, in the evenings. So we're available. We try to make ourselves available as much as possible because we get it. There are certain questions that some folks don't feel comfortable asking in a large group. Now we try to make time every single session for question and answer. I think that's vital. If what we're talking about causes you to have a question, we want you to be able to ask us that question and us to provide you with a response. So afterwards that's not a problem. We expect and we want folks to come up and ask us questions and talk to us.
Speaker 1:That's right, and I love when y'all do your Q&A during the session because there's always people if you're finally willing to ask the question. I'm over there in relief because I was hoping someone would ask. That's right, and I think there's just so much networking that goes on as well If you've got all of those HR people there together. They're talking and networking about examples and problems and cases that they've seen. Same thing, I think if those student safety directors come, those student services directors, they're able to have those engaging professional dialogue and have contacts that they can call.
Speaker 2:Well, the other thing that I find interesting is the folks who usually come in person. They'll stop me and say oh, by the way, I was texting with my superintendent, my administrator, about this particular issue. He or she may call you about this later on. So even if you're here and there's only one person from your district in person, you're already starting, or they seem to already be talking about some of the things that we discussed at the Gale Conference with their folks back home while we're having the conference. So I think it's fun.
Speaker 1:Great Well, corey, we want to thank you again for coming today, Of course. This has been an outstanding session, really want to encourage in our Gale flower you can see the information or on our website to register for the Gale Fall Legal Issues Conference. That's October 29th through 31st in Athens, georgia. Again, really want to encourage each district to send someone if they have a student safety director, student services director, any administrators of course, and then we've got special education and human resources.
Speaker 2:Shoot. We'll even have superintendents come if they want to, we do and there's always a few superintendents that are there and I think it's just smart and wise.
Speaker 1:This is all about being proactive and learning information to hopefully avoid problems and issues and be able to address them in a timely manner when they happen. But we appreciate you, oh, thank you Everything you do for Gale. You and Phil have been outstanding partners for Gale for a long time.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, we appreciate the opportunity.
