GAEL UnscriptED
GAEL UnscriptED, the podcast that goes beyond the headlines and handbooks to bring you unfiltered insights from Georgia’s top educational leaders, innovators, and changemakers. Hosted by Ben Wiggins, Executive Director of GAEL, this show dives deep into the challenges, opportunities, and unexpected twists that shape education today.
From leadership strategies to policy discussions—and everything in between—GAEL UnscriptED is your go-to source for candid conversations that make an impact. No scripts. No fluff. Just real talk from those leading the way in Georgia’s schools.
GAEL UnscriptED
What Every Leader Should Know About Special Education
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What if one well-intended schedule change quietly cut thousands from your special education funding? We sit down with G CASE leaders Mary Kay Berry and Demita James to unpack the real-world moves that keep students supported, teams aligned, and districts out of trouble. From the fall Savannah gathering focused on the balance between instruction and compliance to the spring legal summit in Athens, we break down how timely professional learning translates into better IEPs, stronger classrooms, and fewer legal landmines.
We go deep on leadership development with the Aspiring Directors Academy and state-supported new director learning, showing how pipeline planning protects services and prevents costly gaps when key people move on. Inside the IEP room, tone and structure matter: welcoming families, avoiding jargon, arranging the space for collaboration, and ensuring the LEA knows how to commit funds and uphold services. You’ll hear the phrases to avoid (“We don’t do that here”) and the practices that build trust without overpromising.
The master schedule takes center stage as the quiet driver of equity and budgets. Scheduling special education first safeguards FTE funding, ensures certified staffing for the right service models, and avoids unintended consequences of block schedules. We also tackle the realities of teacher shortages and alternative routes, making the case for pairing targeted PD with coaching so new educators can deliver grade-level access, not just remediation. Inclusion is the norm now—students with disabilities are in AP, CTAE, fine arts, and core classes—so every teacher needs strategies, and every leader carries special education responsibility.
If you’re a principal, AP, director, or district leader, this conversation gives you a checklist to strengthen IEP meetings, protect funds, and elevate instruction across the board. Subscribe, share with your team, and leave a review with one change you’ll make before your next IEP meeting.
Welcome to Gale Unscripted, where leadership meets learning and real conversations drive real impact. I'm Ben Wiggins, Executive Director of Gale. Join us as we go beyond the headlines with Georgia's top education leaders. Let's elevate the conversation. Welcome back, Gail family, to another exciting episode of Gale Unscripted. Today we have fabulous guests from the G Case organization. I'm going to start off and let Mary Kay introduce herself and then we'll move on over to Demeter.
SPEAKER_03:My name's Mary Kay Berry. I am the executive director of services for exceptional children in Fulton County Schools.
SPEAKER_00:She had to think about that because it's a new job. It is a new job.
SPEAKER_03:It is, it is. I've been on the job since mid-August. So fairly new. And then I am the proud president of Georgia Council for Administrators of Special Education. I had to think about that. I mean, come on. So very excited about that.
SPEAKER_01:And then hi, I'm Demita James, and I am the Assistant Executive Director for Middle Georgia RESA. And I serve as the president-elect for G Case.
SPEAKER_03:And she's also uh National Case. She serves on the National Case Board.
SPEAKER_00:She was being mice. Congratulations. How long have you been on the National Board?
SPEAKER_01:I'm almost finished with my second year.
SPEAKER_00:National was at Savannah Lake. Last year. It was held in Georgia. That's right.
SPEAKER_03:And Demita and I actually served on a panel for National Case. It was it was it was very interesting. It was a neat experience.
SPEAKER_00:It's great. All right. Well, let's dive into the world of G Case. Um tell us about the conferences you have. I know you do two a year, but you also have a number of professional learning opportunities. I think he had one in September down in Macon. But talk to us about the conferences, when they are, where they're located, and some of the other professional opportunities, learning opportunities there are out there.
SPEAKER_03:Sure. So I'll talk about a couple and then Dominique, you fill in as well. So we have a fall conference every year in Savannah, and that's a good that's a good time. Coming up. What is that date? That is November 11th, 12th, and 13th. Um in Savannah, we have some amazing things. Depending upon when uh this podcast is aired, it'll either really have had a it will have been a good time or it's about to be a good time.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_03:One of the yeah, so um we are focusing on the balance between um instruction and compliance. And so really talking about as special education leaders the importance of being both. We have to focus on instruction now more than ever, and then compliance is so very important to what we that's where we we have pitfalls often in the area of compliance.
SPEAKER_00:I had one rule when I was a high school principal. I never argued with the special ed, uh, department head or the curriculum director at the district office. I'm gonna tell you. I knew not to I listened to my special editor.
SPEAKER_03:Do you have any poll with Georgia Association of High School Principals? That needs to be, I'm telling you, a fashion.
SPEAKER_00:I learned that lesson early on. And uh it's always better to listen to your special ed professionals out there, principals. Uh they will keep you out of trouble and make sure you are compliant.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. Nobody looks good in corn unless you're a Clemson.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. That's right. That's right. All right, we're gonna talk about a few more opportunities.
SPEAKER_01:Um so um, in addition to a fall conference, we also do a spring um legal conference, and that one is always in Athens. Um, and so we always have, you know, like those top um legal issues that kind of come up, and you know, it's nice to like being said, you know, for us to kind of be aware of those things that are gonna keep us out of um the jailhouse. Um not the new black. Um so yeah, but you know, so that's one that's always a popular one because everybody wants to know what the new things are that they need to be paying attention to, and you know what happens on the federal and state level is gonna eventually trickle down to what happens on your local level. So um that conference is always good. In addition to that, we have some drive-ins that we've done. Um, I had the opportunity to participate in one that was uh recent with Jon O'Connor. He came and did um one on like the top tips of staying off of the federal list identified list. And that was really good. And we had great participation. Um that one was held in Perry. And so great participation on that conference. And 100 participants.
SPEAKER_00:That's great. And that is a very, very smart strategy. I think I know of some school districts out there that the superintendents work with their, especially at Department and Curriculum Department, and they keep up with those scores so meticulously that even if their school barely missed the TSI list, they make them go through the process.
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna tell you it is a process.
SPEAKER_00:And that really helps those schools stay off of the list. I when I saw the topic of that one-day workshop, I thought that is a phenomenal idea.
SPEAKER_01:And it was great too because it allowed um it wasn't just a special education focus, you know. They were supposed to bring teams or bring teams. They were brought teams, and so you had your curriculum directors and you know, other people who were at the district level and some school principals, you know, and some teachers, instructional coaches, you know, who were there to really kind of listen to that work and devise a plan of what are we gonna do moving forward. So it was really great.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So if I was a if if I was a principal out there or district office person, uh I would be looking at this upcoming CCRPI release. You've already got your data that I would be paying close attention and hopefully you did not make the list. Uh, but even if you had a school in your district or you're the principal of school and you were very, very close, this would be a phenomenal opportunity. And I'm sure G Case will continue to do that.
SPEAKER_03:We definitely we also have two other uh things that we do for professional learning. We have the ADA, which is Aspiring Directors Academy, and so teacher leaders um who are interested in going into special ed can apply, and it is very competitive. We have we have to turn away a lot of applicants. Um and so that's uh an amazing area of professional learning that we do. And then we also um work with closely with the Department of Education for Celda, which is for new special education directors in their first or second year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so again, back home, principals, uh superintendents, assistant superintendents. You've always got to be thinking about your pipeline. If your special at department head leaves tomorrow, do you have someone ready to step into those shoes? At the district office, do you have someone ready? And so that's why I think that aspiring directors academy is so great. And the new. Talk to them a little bit about what those two different PL opportunities, what do they get out of that? What are they learning? Let's take the aspiring first.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so so as an aspiring director, and I the curriculum is set. Um I mean it is very intent and focused. One of the one days that one of the days they spend in Dr. Tris Gillilin does um the perfect IEP. And so if one were to exist, she has definitely crafted crafted that. And so they they they have the opportunity to really look at that. Um, and then anything that they would need to know, can you think of any other days specifically, Damita?
SPEAKER_00:Um, just an IEP in itself. I know that um I worked in a district one time and the director showed us a video one time on the it was like the exemplar of what an IEP meeting should look like, and a terrible one. And it started off with the bad one first. And it was little things like teachers were late, teachers were unprepared, they didn't bring anything to show. Um just showing that unprofessionalism a little bit or nonchalant when these parents of the special ed student, this is the most prized possession that they have. Um, and that meeting is extremely important. And then, you know, and it was it had humor and it was funny, and that was the purpose of it. But it really drove home to me uh the importance of making sure that our staff that we were going to be on time and early for a a meeting, and we were gonna bring those parents back and we were gonna greet them and make sure we treated them in the right way, to do everything that we could to make it a positive experience.
SPEAKER_03:I know you had you had asked, and we had talked be a little bit before we we hopped on the mics about LEA training for that local education agency and what that means. One of the things that I tell my people, and I think it's important for administrators to know, for principals to know, for district leaders to know, is that I say, you know, administrator, principal, this is your house. You have to make a parent to feel out. And and so often I know as a special educated uh special education administrator, I've probably been in 2,2500 IP meetings easily. And this is this parent's first, second, third. I mean, we we just there is a there's an area that to who much is given, much is required. And we have the ability to um interact and make a difference with the families, and and that is a big responsibility. And so as administrator principal, it it is this is your house. You've got to make it.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's a great point. I know as a as a parent, as an administrator, one of my children might have gotten in trouble at uh the middle school. And I just know how, even as an educator and as an administrator, how how uncomfortable I was and intimidated I was going to that middle school, listening to those teachers talk about, you know, maybe a bad behavior or a poor decision that was made. And it helped me remember, remind myself, we've got parents coming in that they're not in the schools every day. They don't understand all the jargon. Um, and it it can be a very intimidating thing. They they want what's best for their child, and and how we interact uh with them in that IEP meeting is is critically important. Really is. So talk about the LEA training. What is that? Maybe I'm a I'm an assistant principal, I'm watching this, I've heard the term LEA. I thought that was a special ed department head that was handling that.
SPEAKER_03:So I can tell you what for me, um, in in my previous district, I was in White County for 12 years. Um, I worked with administrators. We did it both um through through the years. We we've done it in person. I've worked with uh Reagan and Best Saul from Barker Poe, we've had them come in and just different options to set how to set the stage. You know, as an LEA, you are responsible under the law for committing funds for this district. And and it's very serious, and then not only are you responsible for committing the funds, you're also responsible for overseeing that specially designed instruction that is implemented through the pretty mumbo jumbo-y uh for you as a response, but um it is important for administrators to understand the the responsibility that they have for the implementation of that IEP. And do you would you add anything?
SPEAKER_01:The only thing I would add in addition to that is, you know, not only do they have to be able to commit those funds, but they also gotta know what services are available. You know, so one of those phrases that we often warn administrators when they're sitting in that seat is don't say we don't do that here or we don't have that, because those are gonna be the things that are gonna often get you in. You're gonna be offering it. You're probably gonna be offering it. You're probably gonna be paying more than you wanted to pay for it in the first place. So um, yeah, so I think that that is important for them to kind of know that it is a huge responsibility and that there are some things that go along with it in their response of how they um do that. Um, one of the things I would say that um we have been working on, I didn't say this when I did my introduction, but in addition to being the assistant executive director at um Middle Jordan Risa, I also serve as the GLRS director. So, you know, I'm on the special education side of the house. And so working with um the various leaders that come through our different programs, and uh we have that alternative program for leaders. Um and so going through that and trying to help them to kind of see the importance of what their role is has been helpful. But we also have done like a facilitated IEP training that really shows the importance of that collaborative work within the team. Um, and like Mary Kay said, you know, just remembering that when parents come in, they're very often intimidated. And then, you know, how we set up our space when they come into that room, if we're we have it set up where it's almost like us against them, that can kind of set the tone for how that meeting may run. So just kind of being, you know, mindful of some of those things.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I think uh it I I would strongly encourage uh uh Gill members out there, if you're an administrator, uh to go through the LEA training. Because I've heard rumors that sometimes uh there may be an IEP meeting and maybe just because of some circumstances there wasn't an administrator in there.
SPEAKER_03:I would say probably that happens more often than we would like for it to happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um again, uh you know, when I said, you know, this is your house, um, it it is it is that administrators know the decisions that are being tried within the confines of IT games because decisions that can literally cost the system not not hundreds of dollars, not thousands of dollars, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars. And and over the course of years, and especially where we are financially now, um the importance is just it is unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00:It needs to be a priority is that building principle. You gotta know when the IAP meetings are, and that needs to be an administration.
SPEAKER_01:And I would say, despite what people think, Sped does not have a whole lot of money to sit over in a pot over there, you know.
SPEAKER_00:So they think you hide it over there under the tree, don't they?
SPEAKER_03:But what I will tell you is the the you know, even if they it it administr an administrative team would identify, okay, this administrator is the administrator of special education or student services, however that may be, just so that there was a go-to person. I think that's important not only for for teachers, but also for parents to know, okay, I'm gonna deal with this individual.
SPEAKER_00:I think that's incredible. The special ed teachers understand that relationship, the department head, the district office, everyone knows this is the administrator at this school that handles you know the special ed situation.
SPEAKER_03:I will tell you one of the one of the things And it helps with consistency. Absolutely. One of the things that I got to do as uh when I was in White County, um Duncan County asked me to come over and work with their aspiring leaders and and I said, What do you you know, what do you want me to talk about? And she said what would as a special education director, what do you want to know? And so I was like, Oh my gosh, here's my opportunity. And so we spent time with with future administrators just saying, Okay, this is the importance of this. This is the importance of this. Yeah, let's work this out.
SPEAKER_00:That's right, that's right. Let's talk about master scheduling. And you and Katie Lowry came on, did the Gale Finance series and she did it with the flu. She did it. If I remember correctly. She did it with the fluid. That is commitment right there with the flu on it.
SPEAKER_03:Never floater down about this much.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, pushed right through. That is commitment, but that was all about coding and that. But let's talk about scheduling. Y'all did some great examples on scheduling, but let's talk about master schedule. So I'm a principal or an assistant principal. Maybe one of my main duties is to do the master schedule. But I'm new. This is gonna be next spring is gonna be my first foray into doing the master schedule. Um, in your opinion, as special ed directors or professionals, I know every place I've been as a principal, we always plugged into special ed schedule first. Um, but let's talk about why you think that's important and what might be some drawbacks if we don't put special ed in first.
SPEAKER_03:So shout out to Cindy, Cindy Fleischer. Um, and can we say we we we think we're gonna go ahead and do it around?
SPEAKER_00:I think you can say with great confidence you'll be doing a breakout session at Wintergale on that.
SPEAKER_03:Quick advertisement. That's right. That's right. Um, but I will tell you that that it is it is of utmost importance. And and and we say all the time, oh special sp schedule special ed first, schedule special ed first. Why? And people say, Oh, yeah, yeah, we do, we do, we do. Um, but the decisions that you make surrounding scheduling can mean a major impact on your funding. Give us an example of that. Quick example of that. So you are in a middle school and you have been on a on a seven period day, okay? And so your segments are around 50 minutes, and things run you run through the day, and and your students are scheduled, your students with disabilities are scheduled, and they're earning funding for that. Then you decide to change to block schedule. Okay. So now your your segments are 90 minutes. When a student with a disability is coded in more than three segments, it changes their funding weight from a level three, which is a gross approximation, let's say just say around$9,000. Those of you do not, I mean you you there isn't that amount. I'm saying approximately. So if you were to bump to that fourth segment, you they go all the way down to about you're only earning about six thousand dollars. And so you're looking at about three thousand dollars. If you're in a small district, eighty kids, three thousand dollars. I don't do math in public, but it does add up. Yeah. So what if you're looking at eight thousand kids? That's right. Um, I mean, it it adds up, it can be a significant, and all you did Mr. Principal was change from a seven period. Seven period to a block to a block period day. Total unintended consequence. You had no idea, but it could cost the system hundreds of thousands of dollars.
unknown:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so once that uh the principal sets the schedule, and they've been doing they've been on block, they've been on seven period day for a number of years, they've set the schedule, but they haven't put SPED in first. What are some potential drawbacks that maybe you've seen? I was the principal, I made the schedule, made the master schedule, at some point we plugged in special ed, and now you're the special ed director from the district office coming in and you've identified some issues for Ben. What are Ben's issues now?
SPEAKER_01:All right, so I would say a couple of those issues would um relate to the fact that you scheduled these students who may or may not need a particular service model for their instruction, but you may not have the certified teachers to teach those things because we know we're in a teacher shortage, and we know that we have a lot of inexperienced teachers providing services for students. But if they're needing a small group model and you only can teach co-taught because you're not fully certified in all the content areas, then that's gonna cause a problem.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and then an unintended consequence would be your test scores are going to suffer because we don't have highly qualified or trained teachers.
SPEAKER_00:Talk about that getting certified in all the content areas. Why is that important? Why do I have to do that? I've got the special ed, I've got the general. Well, why why is it important? My principal's trying to get me or district office to go back and get certified in all the content areas.
SPEAKER_01:Why? Well, because one, although special education um teachers are, you know, working on the special design instruction in order to be able to create special design instruction for your students, you gotta kind of know what some of the ins and outs of those content areas are. So the more you know on that end and being able to be certified in the various content areas, it's gonna make you a richer, you know, and more knowledgeable teacher to be able to support your students because you have that uh, you know, understanding of what those things are asking for. And you gotta be aware. One, our students with disabilities are students first. And so it they're not coming to just get intervention, they're coming to get instruction from the general curriculum. And so we have to make sure that we have that content information as well.
SPEAKER_00:Talk a little bit about where our special ed students are within our school. Um, because special ed students may have been in a particular area or you know, self-contained, but talk about how that has changed dramatically over the years.
SPEAKER_03:I think what what is so in this is I'm gonna talk briefly because Danita, this is her area of expertise. It really, really is. But um really, you know, I I said, you know, teachers aren't going into special education like they want to. And so we're getting some great folks, great people who lack training. Um so we we say they have sometimes it's skill or will, but they have the will that we can teach the skill, but it is it is when do we have the time to do that. And in the the pressure that we put on them now for accountability, it is it it's significant. So I'm gonna I'm gonna let you uh well it's funny.
SPEAKER_01:I don't remember what the question was.
SPEAKER_00:Well, just especially if students are dispersed throughout our master schedule. But you know what? We do. That seems scale unscripted, but we do we take non-traditional teachers. I've got a college degree, I've decided I want to teach. You're the principal, and you go, oh, thank goodness I need three special ed teachers. So go take the the Gays and Special Ed, we'll put you through the tap. And by the way, here's the IEPs you gotta do, and here's the FTE reporting. And it is a lot. Um, and sometimes I'm afraid at the local school level, maybe we're not making sure that we give those people the the most help that they need so that they can be successful.
SPEAKER_03:It is. I I've got two right now in my family. My soon-to-be son-in-law, he he has a degree in sports management, and he he couldn't find a job. So he is teaching, he's a special ed teacher in GNET.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I mean, y'all, and then my best friend's daughter. Um, I have been I've been helping her write IEPs. And I'm it is a lot of th there's a lot that we've done.
SPEAKER_00:Especially if you haven't majored in special ed.
SPEAKER_01:Well, even if you have majored in special ed, it still is a lot. Because I mean, you know, you can do all kinds of simulations with kids, but until you get those real world ones, um, it's a whole nother story. But yeah, um I think that what we have to keep in mind is that yes, professional development is gonna be essential for those new um teachers, regardless if they're traditional teachers are um taking an alternative approach. But one of the bigger things that I think that we need to tap into is doing more coaching with our teachers who are coming into the field because they are asked to do a lot. They are um, and we got to give them the opportunity to be able to have a little bit of um of a failure, you know, with somebody kind of there to help catch them, you know. Yeah. And I think that that's where that coaching part is important that is paired with that professional learning in order for us to be able to build that capacity. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And that's really where you were going with that is our our our students, our students with disabilities are being educated in in our gender classrooms. Everywhere. Yeah, I mean, for the most part, their day is is in a classroom with a gender teacher. So not only do we we need to train our students, our teachers of the students with disabilities, our specialist teachers, but how do we equip the gender teachers? How do we equip those gender teachers to do that? And it and it is it is uh one of the things that I that I have for my uh principals in Fall County. I do it I call it Fed Talk. And so um I met with uh Reagan Salles was on this week, and they have the opportunity to come in and ask questions and and whatnot. And because the the whole premise is that every leader is a special education leader. Like you cannot be in education and not have special education as a part of what you do on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_00:That's right, that's right. Well, our our special ed students they are. They're in every classroom in our building. They're even in our AP statistics courses. I mean, they are everywhere. They're in all CTAE courses, they're in all elective courses, they're in fine arts courses. Um I think it's imperative, like you said, not just the training for the SPED teachers, but the general ed teachers have that understanding as well. Um, this has been a fantastic episode. I I as a high school principal at both of my stops, whenever I was having a bad day, and there was only like two of them, of course, right? Um, but I would always find my way down to the self-contained classroom because that could always reset me. Uh those students would bless me beyond measure that they ever had a clue about. Um uh but anyway, I th if I was a principal out there and you're having those struggles and bad days, go down to your special ed self-contained classroom. They will change your day, they will put everything in perspective, uh, and then you can go right back out and tackle the world. Sometimes 10 minutes down there will change the course of the day.
SPEAKER_03:And then send your special ed director a thank you card for all that they do.
SPEAKER_00:No kidding. Uh and invest in your special ed professionals. Make sure they're members of G Case, make sure they're going to the conferences, make sure they're uh able to go. And and think about your pipeline. Think about that aspiring directors and your new directors. Think about as a building level or district level, do you have someone in the pipeline ready to go? And if not, G Case is here ready to help and assist. you with this. Well thank you both for coming today. We enjoyed having you and thank you for joining us for another episode of Gail Unscripted.
