GAEL UnscriptED S2:E6 | How Executive Coaching Transforms Georgia’s School Leaders

Leadership feels different when someone is asking the right questions instead of handing you quick fixes. We sit down with co-directors Kerensa Wing and Rickey Edmond to unpack how executive coaching is reshaping growth for Georgia’s school leaders—principals, assistant principals, district directors, and superintendents—through a safe, structured, and goal-driven process that outperforms traditional mentoring.

From the ground up, this statewide effort was built on research, storyboarding, and relentless feedback. Kerensa and Rickey explain how an advisory board of RESA directors, superintendents, universities, and GAEL affiliates helped refine the model, and why partnerships with the Georgia Department of Education and regional networks unlocked trust and access. You’ll hear how they selected coaches with growth mindsets, trained them with Engage to Learn, and standardized practice using the GROW model and the Grow Lab platform—anchoring every session in clear goals, data, and progress.

We take you inside the engine room: how districts self-selected, why confidentiality is non-negotiable, and what the matching process looks like when analytics and human judgment produce a 98% fit. The conversation moves from structure to impact—ten sessions a year, flexible formats, Georgia Leads-aligned rubrics—and the real-world outcomes when leaders own their development. Whether you’re building a pipeline from teacher leader to AP, stabilizing a school through turnover, or seeking a sounding board as a superintendent, this episode shows how coaching turns reflection into results.

If you believe “so goes leadership, so goes the organization,” you’ll find a playbook here for sustainable improvement and courageous growth. Subscribe, share with a colleague who leads, and leave a review telling us the one question you wish someone would ask you right now.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Gale. Real conversation. Real impact. I'm Dan Wiggins, executive director of Gale. Join us as we go beyond the headlines with George's top education leaders. Let's elevate the conversation. Welcome, Gale family, to another exciting episode of Gale Inscription. Today we've got two outstanding guests with us. We have Carenza Wing and Ricky Edmonds. Why don't we take a couple of minutes here to let y'all introduce yourself and we'll start with you, Carenza?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

All right. Thanks, Ben. I'm Carenza Wing, and I'm one of the co-directors for the Gale Executive Coaching Program. A little bit about my background. I um was in Gwinnett County Public Schools for 32 years and finished my last 12 years as a principal both at Lanier High School and Collins Hill High School.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

And Carenza's leaving out one important part there when she was introducing herself. She was actually uh the Georgia State Principal of the Year while she was at Collins Hill High School. Thanks, Ben.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

All right. Well, I'm Ricky Edmund, uh 30 years in education. I've just about served in every leadership role possible, uh, from being a principal uh also at a high school level uh district office, assistant superintendent, special ed director, and then also serving as a superintendent of schools. So it's been a wonderful journey and uh it's great to be a part of Gabe.

Coaching Versus Mentoring Explained

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Oh, awesome. Well, let's talk a little bit about what executive coaching is and how it may be different from mentoring, because some of our audience out there they may be familiar with mentoring, and when they hear executive coaching, they may not understand the difference.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Just a little bit about the difference between them. I think there is a lot of confusion. Um, I still, you know, we work as executive coaches. I get called a mentor very often in that role. But executive coaching is really focused on improving the performance of the client, and they really drive the goal setting that we do in that process. And the coach really doesn't give advice like a mentor might. The coach really is driving that process of helping the client achieve their goal through questioning and really trying to dive deep and expand their thinking so that they can come up with their own solutions and and reach the goals that they've set. And mentoring really is advice giving in the moment. A lot of times people will have a mentor that they've self-appointed and call them up and try to get advice when as they needed, but it's not something that might be very focused over a long-term goal that they might be working on.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Yeah, and one thing I would like to add, you know, it's really about unlocking that leader's potential and doing that in a very safe uh and um aggressive way because it's all about how do we elevate, and that that leader goes through a process of working with the executive coach uh and getting that sounding board, and that sounding board really uh builds efficacy uh in that leader and outcome-based uh for its organizational effectiveness across across uh the spectrum of time for total school improvement.

Building Georgia’s Coaching Program

SPEAKER_01 3:27

That's a great explanation you both gave on that. You know, so many of us have had mentors where we just call and we've got this particular problem in the present, and they just give us advice on how to deal with that particular problem. And so the executive coaching is going much more in-depth through questioning and asking that client questions to help that leadership development grow in that leader for the future. Great. How many leaders are receiving executive coaching now around the state of Georgia through Gale?

SPEAKER_02 3:57

We're really proud uh uh of the work, coaches, our entire team, and the great support through the Gale organization. Uh, we're right now serving 180 plus leaders across the state. And this is a fast turnaround. We're talking really a two-year journey of seeing those numbers increase um significantly each year over a grand total of three years, with the first year being the implementation pilot model that we started.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

I think you got that one ready.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Well, and it wasn't like there was a program already in place. Uh the Georgia State Department of Education gave a grant uh to Gail to do this, and you two had to really just start from the ground up and and build this. Why don't you just talk real quickly about that process? I know it's hard to put a three-year journey into a two-minute answer, but uh why don't you just talk about uh maybe what you did that first year in preparation?

SPEAKER_00 4:56

We um we did a lot of uh research and thinking, and uh Buddy Costley was the the director, executive director, of course, that hired us. And as as we came together, we did some storyboarding to really think about what does that journey look like? Um, what's our foundation, what what's our definition of executive coaching? Um we really did a lot of foundational work um and research around making sure we had a a strong model that we could then use to hire coaches and get them trained to support leaders across the state.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah.

unknown 5:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

We called the scale unscripted. They had no idea I was gonna ask that question. Threw it right on them. Is there anything you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yeah, I I think it was important uh for us building the foundation for executive culture for the first time in the state of Georgia, is talking about our research directors across the state and their strong partnership and feedback loop we created uh with the State Department and then also with Call Vincent Institute. So this uh model that we created uh really um connected with a lot of organizations, a lot of powerful people across the state. And there's no doubt in my mind that because of that networking and that that collaboration, uh, it really propelled us to a great start. Yes.

Advisory Board And Partnerships

SPEAKER_00 6:15

And speaking of that collaboration, we also have a strong advisory board that really helped us in this process. We had the initial idea and then we took it to them, and they really helped us think through processes and ideas and and grow. And we had um representatives from all of the Gale affiliates, the RESA directors, superintendents, um universities. Uh we had a wide range of people on our advisory board, and we are really appreciative of the time and effort they've put into helping us develop a great program.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

And it wasn't just a one-time meeting with that advisory board. Ongoing. Ongoing. So constantly meeting with them to get feedback, and and uh I know you talk to the superintendents that are their districts are receiving the coaching to get feedback from them as well. So you two are always working very hard to get the feedback to make sure how the program is working and if there are any tweaks that need to be made.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

And B and that's really critical uh for maintaining momentum, you know, creating these feedback loops from the different agencies, organizations, and the superintendents because it's really it drives through them ultimately. They know what their needs are in their district and how they want to really build a leadership development program. And I want to say I appreciate the superintendents. Not every superintendent can be so uh open and transparent and willing to allow for this type of model, new model, yeah, uh, to have a place in their organization. So uh a lot of gratitude and thank yous to our superintendents across the state of Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah, good point. They had to put a lot of trust in YouTube and Gail to allow this uh executive coaching to take place. But I think it's so important, you know. We talk about the turnover of new leaders, and it's not just the position that they're currently in. Uh the turnover is so fast and furious that they may begin receiving coaching in in one position, but by the end of the year or two years, they're in a different position, and that's what is so unique and important about the executive coaching. So let's talk about how these coaches and school districts were selected. You've got 180 that you're coaching right now. Um, how were how were they selected? Let's start with the coaches. How did you go about the process of figuring out who are the people that we're going to hire as executive coaches to work with the leaders around the state?

Scaling To 180 Leaders Statewide

SPEAKER_00 8:38

So Ricky and I had an interesting conversation. We were starting out, he was all worried about um getting enough coaches. I was all worried about getting enough clients. So I'm like, oh, there's plenty of coaches out there. We'll be we'll be fine. Um so we we opened up our um application process and we just used uh the Gale newsletter and social media platforms to to put out the the call, and we had a tremendous response. We had over 100 applicants. Um, the first year we only had about 25 coaches. We increased that last year to 41 coaches, and which is what we have for this year, and um we really uh looked for people that had a growth mindset that were that were interested in really pouring into other people to help support their journey and their growth. So as well as a you know a wide, varied, wide and varied experiences because we know that even though you don't have to have done that position to coach, um a lot of people feel more comfortable opening up if they know you've walked in those shoes before.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Then we did second-round interviews and um called all the references, all the things you would normally do in your HR process.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah. And uh so then you get those coaches selected, and then you had to train them because I'm sure a lot of them had preconceived notions, some of them may have had some training on coaching, uh, many probably had not, uh, or more familiar with mentoring. So talk about what was that training? What did it consist of?

Selecting And Training Coaches

SPEAKER_00 10:08

So the training we have partnered with um Engage to Learn, who had a great training protocol. Um, and we also are using their platform called Grow Lab. And so we did a two full two-day training with them with uh six weeks of follow-up support on a weekly basis. And so that training was called Data Informed Growth Training. I think it's called the Coaching Collaboration now, and really that training helped take all of our coaches through a process for and uh and gave them kind of a framework for coaching. So it taught them the GROW model, which is the model that we use in our coaching um in each coaching session to really around goal setting, exploring current reality, creating options, and then kind of what are you gonna do, what's your way forward. The um that it was a great opportunity, and the the Grow Lab platform gives us an opportunity to really help the coaches stay focused on the goal setting and the progress that they're making. They all of our coaches are also Georgia Leads certified. Those are the rubrics that we use in the Grow Lab as Georgia Leads, and we feel like that's in great alignment with what the state's been doing with our evaluation program. Even if a district's not using the Georgia Leads program, we're using those rubrics because they're written in a very growth-oriented manner. So we're exposing leaders across the state to that program, which we feel like is important, um, to help with their growth. And so they would would choose one of those Georgia Lead standards to set their goal around.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

And then we also have them go through the Gale micro-credentialing process that we offer twice a year.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah, and I think I sat through that training that first two-day session, and I learned a lot about the difference between mentoring and coaching, and you brought it up. Uh, it helps keep the coaches on task and keep the focus on that goal setting and the growth. Um, and mentoring, both when I was being mentored by someone or mentoring others, it was very easy for us to get off topic or to start talking about different things. And I think that's what's unique about the executive coaching, is it always brings it back to the focus of the goal setting and that progress and leadership development. Indeed.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

And I like to also add, we continue in our own growth models as executive coaches, because we also coach as well. And we uh we host our professional learning cycles uh where we bring our executive coaches in and we uh take on book studies, uh, we do reflective uh exercises on how coaching is uh going out in the field. So we get a whole lot of deep self-reflection about the process, and we match that up with present literature to make sure that we are on a growth model to ensure that we are really being professional in terms of driving uh the production of artifacts and evidence to validate the effectiveness of the coaching cycle.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

So it's not just the leaders that are getting coached that are developing and growing, the actual executive coaches are going through a similar process of growing.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

We meet with them monthly. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Perfect. Now let's talk about the school districts. So you got the coaches selected, you're getting the training going, but at the same time, you two are doing a statewide road tour, driving around the state, and uh selling your program to school districts out there and and telling them what this is all about. So talk about what that process was like and how those school districts were um eventually chosen to participate.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

So um I would like to start off. Uh you are absolutely correct about the road trip. Uh sometimes we're away from home uh uh three to five days at a time because we are covering the whole state of Georgia. But uh what a great uh road trip process we put together. And that's again working through our research directors, um uh building access. Uh so they kind of serve as a roadmap for us or a red carpet to get us to the door. We knock on the door, and the superintendent said, okay, come on in, let's talk a little bit more about executive coaching and what it's about. And once we start that two-way dialogue, it just kind of is magical, and they they really embrace the vision of it. And and oftentimes some districts have a higher readiness level for executive coaching than others. Uh, but we're we're in 55 plus districts across the state of Georgia on a brand new program that's never been done before in the state of Georgia. So, again, to Gail and the State Department and all of our other networking agencies for putting the value, right? The value and the resources behind uh executive coaching for the state of Georgia. It's been it's been absolutely powerful.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Yeah. So the so the district's really self-selected as we as we kind of traveled around the state, and and we are the majority of our districts are kind of in central and south Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah. And I can't remember which one of you, but right before I retired, one of you was down in Quitman, Georgia. Uh was that you or I think it was Ricky.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

I think I was virtual that day.

Continuous Learning For Coaches

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I think we both there. Way down there on the Florida line, but that just shows the extent of the travel that you all did. And I and I know there's still school districts today. I had a phone call last week wanting to know a way that we could get on the list. Is there uh we've got a new leader we would really like to go through this coaching? So I know you two are probably still receiving phone calls along those lines as well. All right, so let's talk about what leadership positions are out there that are currently receiving coaching. Is this mostly uh a specific type? Is it school level? Is it district level? Talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

So currently um we have we have a couple of school districts that have teacher leaders that are receiving executive coaching because they believe they want them to be assistant principals in the future. Um we have about 70 per or about 68 percent of our assistant principals and principals, it's school level leaders are receiving coaching. And then about 30 the other 30 percent are district level um district director positions, um, assistant superintendents, and superintendents even have opted to do coaching. Yeah, great.

Recruiting And Onboarding Districts

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Um, and I think that's outstanding when the superintendent uh goes through the coaching, him or herself. I think that speaks loudly and sends a message to the other leaders in that district. That um I'm sure there may have been some uh worry or fear by some folks that does that mean I'm doing something wrong? Did y'all run into any of that kind of feeling or thought process?

SPEAKER_02 16:59

So so being thinking about that that question you just posed to us, you know, I use that that phrase safe place, right? And we really wanted to ensure that this is non-impunitive in its format. It's all about your growth and building your um your ability to have uh impact in that continuous school improvement process. And um, and and we're gonna talk about real quick here the onboarding process. This is something Karen and I do personally because it's a personal journey of making sure that every client, uh, every leader that comes into the executive coaching program hears from us directly.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

So we get on the phone and we can't.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

I bet they have a lot of questions. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

My first would be is this gonna be used in my evaluation?

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Exactly. That has been one of the questions. Oh, and the answer is absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Um it just, you know, that personal connection with the clients, we usually do that in kind of June and July. We also have a matching survey that the clients take and the the coaches take, and we try to match them so that there's gonna be a we feel like a good foundation for them to be able to build a trusting relationship because coaching really is um based on that trusting relationship that they're able to build.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Talk about that matching process a little bit. You just kind of referred to it, but how do you go about this principal or this district office leader or this superintendent? You've got 40, I think you said 41 coaches out there. How do you go about that match to make sure it's a good fit?

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Yeah, so uh Cariza uh mentioned the matching survey that we do uh for all our clients coming on board. Uh we get a little feedback from the superintendents, uh, and then the onboarding process, all of that helps shape how we will uh match them with one of our executive coaches. And so our executive coaches also do matching surveys, and so we just look at the analytics of how they rate themselves as executive coaches, and then what the clients are looking for uh in a uh in an executive coach. And that's how we do it. And we, by the way, we're betting 98% with our matching. So that's obviously throw a little percentage in there.

Who Gets Coached Across Roles

SPEAKER_00 19:13

And we really, you know, we really have gotten taken the time to get to know our coaches, so we can kind of, you know, when we meet with the clients, we kind of think who's gonna be a good fit for them personal personality-wise, or if the clients ask for somebody to really push them, um, we know which of our coaches are really gonna ask those really program questions to push their thinking.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Good. You you mentioned earlier about sometimes there's a a little bit of um comfort level for some of the clients, the leaders that have someone coaching them have had that same position before. But is that necessarily a prerequisite or is that a requirement? Uh talk a little bit about your executive coaches and and why that may be a positive or why it may not be uh absolutely required when it comes to executive coaching.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

So we would we don't feel like it's required because with executive coaching, you should be able to use your skills to coach anyone in any leadership position if you're if you're using the format and the you know in those probing questions and really doing some active listening. Um I think it's a lot easier to slip into advice giving if you're coaching somebody that's in the same role that you've had. That's that's kind of the the challenge for the coach if they're coaching somebody that that is in a role that they've had. Um but at the same time, you know, there is that comfort level for the client if they've had the same role. You want to add anything to that, Ricky?

SPEAKER_02 20:41

I I think you covered it well. The only thing I would just add, uh, you know, again, we do listen very carefully uh uh to those surveys. And again, when you you're matching at 98%, uh that is absolutely wonderful. And so uh again, we we get continuous feedback also using surveys. How's the coaching going? Are you satisfied with your executive coach? We even asked the executive coach how are things going in the in your coaching cycle? So it's an ongoing formative process of really self-reflecting on the coaching cycle for each of our clients.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah, let's talk about that coaching cycle. What is what does a coaching session consist of? You two are coaching, one of you is coaching me, I'm uh new, whatever. Um how often do we meet? Where do we meet? Is it in person? Is it virtual?

Trust, Safety, And Matching Process

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Yeah, so uh once we uh take all our new clients through the onboarding process, and uh we we then uh do the matching process, and then the executive coach will now reach out uh to the client that they've been matched with, and that starts the process of building a working relationship, building a safe and trusting environment. Uh I do want to go back and just kind of mention in the MOU we signed with the superintendents, one of the things that Have to sacrifice is that they cannot intrude on a coaching cycle under maybe two circumstances. Uh, they have to first be invited in, and then second, if there's an emergency situation. Other than that, they trust us to trust our executive coaches and their leaders to go through this executive coaching process. And so once that orientation is taken place, they're gonna meet um usually 10 times out of the year. That's a combination of virtual and face-to-face. But we let the coaching cycle and the coaches and the clients work out how they want to meet. So uh even Corenza and I, as co-directors, we don't get involved unless they invite us in to do a team coaching process.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Good. Anything you want to add to?

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Um typically a coaching session lasts anywhere from an hour and a half, two hours, depending on if they're in person or virtual. And if you know if they want to meet more often, then they might meet twice a month and just do it for shorter periods of time. So it's kind of truly up to the client and the coach for what's going to help the client. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Well, let's maybe wrap up this podcast today and talk about why you two think or feel executive coaching is so important for our educational leaders in the state of Georgia.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Well, I I truly think it's important for acceleration of growth. Um, whether you're a new leader or have been in your seat for a while and you just need a shot in the arm of somebody coming in and helping you with your thought processes and and helping push your thinking. Um, we really think it accelerates growth with the.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Anything you'll add, Ricky? Yeah, I I personally had an executive coach as a superintendent. And there's no doubt what a powerful variable it was serving me and my role uh to move the district forward that I served in. And also, I have a saying, and I usually present this every time we're out in the field, so goes leadership, so goes the organization. You probably can speak to that as well. And so uh pouring into our leaders present and future, uh, I just think that's the right way to go. And again, I want to say kudos to the state of Georgia, to Gail, uh, to the entire network of supporters that really uh connected to the vision. Uh, and it has been profound, and we have the numbers to show it.

Inside A Coaching Cycle

SPEAKER_01 24:18

That's right. I I think something that is so great about it and unique about it is sometimes if you're the principal or you're the superintendent, um if you're not careful, you you may not be surrounded with people that are speaking uh up and sharing things with you. Right. Um, and I think that's the beauty of the executive coaching process is there's someone that's not in the system but is asking those questions and making sure that that leader is continuing to grow and develop. Uh so if there's some leaders out there uh listening, I mean maybe that's a challenge I would have for you. Um who are you who are you giving permission to ask you those questions to ensure that you're growing? And if you're not, uh executive coaching would be a great opportunity. And we've we've got a ton of executive coaches that are trained uh in the state of Georgia. And so I'm sure if you contacted Carenza or Ricky, uh even though you might not be a part of the Gale Executive Coaching Program, there's a way that they can get you with an executive coach to help you on your leadership journal. Jose, thank you for the incredible job you're doing with the Gale Coaching Program. Please, Gale members, reach out to Ricky and Carenza if you have any questions uh about executive coaching for your district. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Thank you, then. Thank you.