GAEL UnscriptED S2:E 14 | Lose The Title And Go Walk The Halls

The first year as a superintendent can feel like drinking from a firehose, and the pressure to prove yourself fast is real. We sit down with Dr. Robbie Hooker (Retired from Clarke County Schools) and Dr. Philip Brown (Jackson County Schools) to talk honestly about what makes that first year work: humility, visibility, and the kind of trust you can only earn over time.

We unpack the transition from the principal seat to district leadership and the habits that help you learn a new community quickly. You’ll hear why a 90-day plan matters, how listening tours and town halls shape a credible vision, and why transparency with stakeholders builds resilience when decisions get hard. We also dig into practical “walk the halls” leadership, treating district office work as service, and how mentoring students keeps leaders connected to the mission.

The conversation goes deeper into the biggest challenges facing public education leaders right now: emotional composure, political and cultural noise, enrollment shifts, and competition from homeschooling, private schools, and charter options. We talk about focusing on what improves student outcomes, using simple but powerful data points like literacy rates, buses on time, and lost instructional minutes, and treating the strategic plan as a living document that can change when the data demands it.

If you’re a new superintendent, aspiring district leader, or a principal considering the jump, this one is built for you. Subscribe for more leadership conversations, share this with a colleague who needs it, and leave a review with the best first-year advice you’ve ever gotten.

Transcript

Meet The Guests And The Theme

SPEAKER_01 0:27

We're here for another deal unscripted podcast. We have two fantastic guests again with us today. We've got Dr. Robbie Hooker, Superintendent of Clark County Schools, and Dr. Philip Brown, Superintendent of Jackson County Schools. So we'll just jump right into it today, and we're going to talk about, you know, both of you went from the principal seat. Robbie went into district office and then superintendent. Philip went straight from the principal seat to superintendent. Talk to us about that first year on the job. You could even talk about in your role as principal if you want to, but talk to us about your brand new, it's your first year. Talk to us about that process and what you did and what you learned from it. We're going to start with Philip, it sounds like.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Because you don't know what they were thinking, you don't know the information that they had, you don't know why they had to make the decisions that they had to make. And so out of respect for those people, I think it's important for that to happen. Figuring out what the vision that you have for that school is. And I think that has to be a collective conversation of other leaders, whether that's students and faculty members and community members inside of that school. So, you know, starting at a Coney Middle at age 28, I'm trying to figure out. I'm working, you know, seven days a week 24-7, trying to not fail. And I learned some things in there that you have to take some time for yourself. I also understand started to understand that that people see work ethic. And you know, hard work tra I use this line a lot with leaders, is hard work travels. It doesn't matter what school you're in, what organization or district you're in. If you work hard, people notice. Um and then high expectations. High expectations for your it starts with yourself as the leader, um, but then that also filters into to everybody else inside of your school, and what are those expectations and and why do you have the expectations that you have? Um but but work ethic is so important. I think the hard thing is sometimes as a leader when you come in, and you just have to understand this that I use this line a lot, that you're gonna plant a crop that you may never see harvest. And you just as the leader, you're trying to figure out um, and then also how do you develop other leaders around you because you you want people around you to have opportunities and have opportunities to grow as professionals and grow as leaders, and maybe that means a different job for some of them down the road, but you want to prepare them. Uh, I think about it in my role now, that I I want to know that there are people in our organization that can have opportunities that they desire. And my job as the leader is to help prepare them for those opportunities.

Listening Tours And Setting A Vision

SPEAKER_04 3:45

That's awesome. Right? Well, I think about this from the principalship on to superintendency about spending time with key stakeholders. I know going to the middle school at Bernie Harris Lions, I knew there were four strong teachers and they were all on the same grade level. Spending time with them, learning the culture of that school and getting their idea of how do we improve this from the inside out with the community. Going to high school, Clark Central is known for athletics. So one of the big things I learned is spending time with Joanne Ward, who's my athletic director. But I learned from him uh not just the coaches, he had high expectations, expectations for coaches as well. They're not just athletes, they're student athletes. So, how do we make it better for them that they get opportunities to go to the next level? Uh, and spending time with our department chairs, I'll never forget my first year uh at Clark Central. I had the opportunity to work with Sally Sopeda. We changed the role of our department chairs at one point. They were doing the observations of their teachers. Well, we you know they were saying, Well, we don't have time to do this. Guess what we did? We took it off their backs. We had it as administrators, we'll do all the observations. You do your role to improve the student outcomes uh with your department. Uh as superintendent, uh going well, going as assistant superintendent. When you have 10 high schools, you have that's like your own school system. And uh meeting with those principals, learning those communities. I tried to go to extracurricular activities, meet with parents, uh and then also with them is that you had to learn the culture because you had 10 different high schools and you different demographics, different areas, pockets of town, uh spending some time there, and then in the superintendency role, it's just getting out my first year in social circle, meeting with the mayor, meeting with city council members, uh meeting with business leaders within the community, and having opportunities to get there. I had four questions. I would meet them at a restaurant, I'd come to their house and say, tell me the uh strengths and challenges of this school district. And then I asked, What is your vision? What would you like to see happen in three to five years if you were in this role or whatever? And that helped set the vision for the I wanted to cast. When I came here to Clark County in 2022, I'd been here. This would have been this is my third time around with Clark County. And while I was here as a principal, I served on Senate Mary's Board. I was part of several boards, so I knew a lot of the key personnel, our key leaders, business leaders here. But coming back here, I did town hall meetings. I think I did maybe five or six town hall meetings, getting input from parents, getting input from leaders, and just learning faith-based. I think we forget about faith-based a lot. When I came here, I uh started, I had a meeting with 40 African-American pastors, but also met with other faith-based leaders. We had have a listserv at the beginning of the year that we sent out to all the pastors around here and say, hey, we need your support at the opening of our school year, that I need you there greeting our kids as they walk in on the first day, first couple of days of schools. And that has that has really helped. And and saying to our kids, I believe in you. No matter what, where you come from, I believe in you, and that you'll be able to make it here because you chose CCSD. We're gonna have high expectations, we're gonna ensure that you get the best education possible. Now, are there challenges? Yes, they are challenges. But here's the thing: we don't focus on the challenges, we learn from our mistakes and we move forward. We admit when we make a mistake, we don't slide it under the rug and say, okay, they don't need to know about that. No. Transparency. If you're honest the first time or at all times with your stakeholders, they'll trust you no matter what. Good, bad, and ugly. Uh but yes, and having a good relationship with your board makes a difference. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

And a lot of what you're saying there is you're building trust. Yeah. Uh going back to that five levels. And so, Philip, why don't you talk about that a little bit? You know, you started at Jackson County. Um, when you're a principal at North Oak County, you've been in the district, you kind of knew the people, but now when you went to Jackson County, they don't know you. Um, how did you go about building trust? I always say, you know, trust is earned, it's never given. So talk to us about how you did that.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

I think one thing that's interesting is there's there's a little bit of proximity between Nakonee County and Jackson County. And so uh there were enough people that talk that asked questions, there were enough people that had you know family and and had uh connections in both counties that they had you know had conversations. So I would say that your reputation is really important in those um moves. Building trust is about time and taking time and spending time uh with people. Um a mentor of mine uh told me it's really important when people um when you have to make decisions, if they can see the community can see that you're strategic, that you're thoughtful, that you communicate, uh that you say what you mean, you don't change your mind on every decision. Um you make a decision, you stick with it. It's the best decision you think that at the time with the information that you have that that needs to be made. Um but following through and uh having follow-up conversations, admitting when you make mistakes, because that's going to happen in these jobs, nobody is perfect in these roles. Uh there's a there's so many moving parts. I mean, if you think about it, um in many of our school districts, we feed the most people in each of these communities, we transport the most people in these communities. Uh so you run the largest restaurant, you run the largest transportation hub in the community. Um, and then you know you're you're dealing with people's children. And the the burden that comes with knowing that you're responsible for every one of those kids that those parents drop off at school or put on a bus every day. And when you take that burden uh seriously, and when you you you care, um and care is huge. Um care is huge. Uh and I think another piece of leadership when you're coming in new, um, you get so many questions, and and you know, helping people understand how you make decisions and way why you make certain decisions is really important because the how and the why it gains more trust. Um it just over time gains more trust. But I think it's really important to be intentional in the first few months uh about spending time, about being visible, um, you know, getting out of your office and walking the halls, getting out of your office and walking to schools is so important. But being being at community events, um, and and so that people understand who you are and what you're about. Um, I think in our role now, uh hopefully Robbie would agree with me on this, but I I want the kids to know who I am. And I'm not I'm not even really worried about them knowing me and my title, I could care less about that, but them knowing me, knowing who I am, and that I care, um, I think is really, really important.

District Office Work Means Service

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yeah. Bobby, why don't you expand on that a little bit? I've heard you speak many times, and I know that one thing you really um have high expectations of your district office staff is to get out of the office and be in those schools. So talk a little bit about why that's important to people that are thinking about being a superintendent or working at district office.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

Well, for many years, people think when you arrive to the district office it's going to be easy, and you get to have a long lunch or do those things. And I share with my folks, no, our job is to serve. If you're in district office, your job is to serve not only the students but the faculty and staff. And so what we do, not only do we go out to buildings, I said at least two to three days a week, you need to be in schools. Teachers need to know who you are as a coordinator. Uh they need to know who you are as a director. You need to go into those buildings and let the principal know you're there, but not just sitting there and waiting on people to come to you. Go into those classrooms, model lessons, go into planning times and uh work with the teachers. But most of all, I think what has made the difference here for us in CCSD is that I challenge our district office uh personnel to become mentors. Once a week, you mentor a child, meet with that child for one hour and have time with the children. And I did that. I have a kid I've been with for two and a half years, and I share with him I'm retiring, but I'm gonna stick with you until you finish 12th grade. That's awesome. And that's what it should be about. It's about service, and I think we've made a difference. People see us not just being visible, but having answers to your questions. You know, uh, and cabinet members, I challenge them to go out into buildings. I'll give you this example and then I'll be quiet. And then our business service guy, uh Chris Grouder. What I love about his department now is that our uh AP purchasing department, they go out to the buildings, work with the bookkeepers. Uh, all of our bookkeepers in the district has gone through training through the Carl Benson Institute. Um, not only that, but uh other people within that department, they mentor students, but they are also visible in the schools. How can I help? That's our word. How can I help? We're here to help or to support you. Tell me what is it you need, and so that's what we do, and it is making a difference. That's outstanding.

Sponsor Spotlight Coca-Cola Bottling

First-Year Superintendent Advice That Works

SPEAKER_01 14:17

It's a great point for some of you out there, uh prospective uh superintendents. You know, think about your cabinet level, your district office. Uh, do you have a need for mentors in your school district? I don't know of a school district that doesn't have a need for that, so that's that's fantastic. Well, Gail, we have great sponsors and partners, and one that we want to highlight today is Coca-Cola bottling. And for those of you that attend uh winter and summer Gale conferences and affiliate conferences, you see all the Coca-Cola products that are given uh to Gail to help keep our cost down. So we're very appreciative of Coca-Cola bottling and their longtime partnership with Gail. Alright, so you two, I'm a brand new leader. I just got the job of superintendent. I'm gonna start July 1. Uh maybe give me some advice for that first year. Maybe it's uh, hey, here's one or thing, one or two things to do. And here's one thing to make sure you don't do as the new leader. Uh Robbie, why don't you start us off with that?

SPEAKER_04 15:22

Well, I have a plan. I can tell you what I learned from Mary Elizabeth and from other leaders that I talked to across to say when I went into social circle, I had a 90-day plan. And I followed it to a T. After you do that 90-day plan, get back to the to the community as to what you learned from your 90-day visits or your plan and how you got what it entails with your vision. And the other thing is uh not only having a 90-day plan, but as Philip said earlier, be visible. Uh and don't be afraid to answer the tough questions if you don't know the answer. Admit, I don't know the answer. You don't have to have the answer to everything. And the other thing is uh you don't know everything. And your people know that you have everything. Oh yes, just admit it, I don't I don't know it. We'll we'll talk about that later. And if you make a mistake, just own it. And you're gonna make mistakes, but don't beat yourself up. Learn from that mistake, get up, get back at it again, and keep moving. That's awesome. Phil?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

I would reflect on this question. Um, how do you know if you're successful in that leadership role? What piece of data can you point to that says, because of my leadership, this improved? Um, and we started asking that across our district right now. Um literacy levels, uh, reading levels, uh, number of percent of kids reading on grade level is a conversation that we're having across our district is what is the percent of students in Jackson County that are reading on grade level? And then each individual teacher has to answer what percent of students are reading on grade level in their classroom. And so trying to push that because I think you can get very um spread out in our roles, and uh you don't under you know you what are you focusing on? What is what are you paying attention to um and what are you trying to see improved? The second piece of advice is lose the title. Um like just because you got the job uh doesn't mean you're successful, it doesn't mean anything. Uh it just means you got the job. And uh if you think the title has uh helped you arrive, I think you've you're gonna fail miserably. Uh I wouldn't um I I try not to tell um when I talk to people in the district, I'll get lots of questions from parents and community members of what do you do here? And say I I work in the organization, um, and I oftentimes don't even use the title of superintendent just because I I don't I don't want that to jade their opinion of me or or the service that I'm trying to provide. Um understanding the reason why you do you're doing what you're doing. Um what's your why, what's your purpose? Um, and and I think passion is even more important. I mean purpose is more important than passion. Um I think just understanding why you're trying to do what you're what you're trying to accomplish, what where you want to see the school, where you want to see individual teachers, where do you want to see your leadership go? Um, I mean, I think reflecting back a principal for 13 years and now being a superintendent for three, so 16 years, the maturity in my thinking from where I was then to where I am now, um, and some of those are bumps in the roads of things that I had to learn the hard way. Uh when I I did make the mistake and and the the parent did let me know about it, or you know, the the community did let me know about the mistake that I made. I I think you learn a lot, and uh and you know, people that first year is really important about setting expectations, and then I think after you get past the first year, it's how do you deal with the complacency? How do you deal with the complacency of you know the personal complacency? Uh as a high school principal, I'll tell you 11 years in the same place, and we we were top academic and top athletic and top fine arts. I would I would create I wouldn't say fake scenarios in my head to motivate me, but I would take slights anytime I could get them. If somebody would slight our school or somebody would slight our organization, or somebody would slight our leadership, in the back of my mind, I would replay that over and over and over again to make myself work even harder to give kids even more opportunities. And uh, you know, I think psychologically you have to, as a leader, you have to play some of those games with yourself. And uh and you know, they're they're fun. Um I have three school districts inside of our county right now, and two of them are city districts, and uh, I'll replay um things inside my head to motivate me, and and I'll use some of those things to motivate our folks.

Biggest Challenges Emotions And Politics

SPEAKER_01 20:15

That's right. I think that's a great point. I think you know, when you are somewhere, you know, you come in new after you've been there a while, and you gotta keep things fresh, and you've got to keep your sense of urgency so your staff feels that sense of urgency as well. So, what do you think is the biggest challenge for a first-year superintendent walking into the job this year, this July, from a whether it's a state perspective, a financial perspective, a political perspective? What do you think is like the biggest challenge for that new leader?

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Emotional composure. Can you control your emotions when things don't go the way you think they should go? And the second part is how do you control your emotions when you do see success? And how do you balance those to help because you're leading people? And um, you're flawed as the leader, they're flawed in their roles. Uh but I mean, I just remember teaching is such a hard job. And how do we support those individuals who are dealing with, I mean, you know, I I just think about all the things that that teachers see, that counselors see, that principals see right now. And uh how do you help them um help and support them because the job is really challenging. And they're professionals. Right. And how do you treat 'em as professionals and how, you know, part of that is changing the the look of public education and that it's a professional organization and that we do professional work. Um, you know, we're seeing tremendous outside challenges right now, uh, whether those be political or Or just cultural challenges outside of our organizations that are having impacts on if you look at the enrollment of students in our schools in many districts, it's decline. And so we try to figure out what is that parents have so many options right now, whether that's homeschooled. I think we've seen a tremendous increase in homeschool since COVID. Private schools, you know, some private schools have started with small, small numbers of students in the basement of churches or this or that. And so you've got that challenge, and then you've got the charter school challenge. Um and uh each of those schools are judged differently, and they're also held to a much different standard. Uh the standards that that we face in public education are much greater than any of those other entities, and it's not even close. Um, and that we we do a good job. I mean, public schools do a good job. Um, and uh if you look at the percent of students that are educated in public schools in America, significantly over 90 percent. And uh that's so important. Um, that's so important.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

Right, Robbie for newly designed, don't lose focus of your job is to ensure that our students get a high quality education, do not get swayed by the politics. I said block out the noise and stay focused on what the work is about. And it's difficult. It is difficult, and I would say to you as a new leader, find a mentor or coach. You cannot survive this job without you can have both a coach and a mentor, but you can't do it by yourself because they're gonna be lonely days and you can't always go home and talk to your spouse because sometimes they want to correct it for you. That's right. I can fix it. But you need that individual that you can be real with and say, I'm struggling with this. I need support. And uh I tell you another thing that a winner, sometimes you have to be vulnerable in front of your people to let them know that you are human. You're not cold, you know. People tell me all the time when I'm interviewing, I'm very stoic. I have no affect. So you don't know if you're doing well or not when you're interviewing with me. But you have to let people know I struggle. And one of the things when I came to Clark County, I said to them, uh I'm all about wellness, not just physical, but mental wellness. And I share it with them, listen, guys, once a month I have a counseling session. I've had the same counselor, a therapist for the same, what, seven years. And if I didn't meet with this individual, I couldn't be the leader that I am today. So you need to have that space, block out the noise, keep focus on the students, and empowering those people who work directly with you to be the best person that they could be so that your system is the best system around.

Strategic Plans Data And What To Change

SPEAKER_01 25:09

I think that is great advice for those of you listening or watching. You got to take care of yourself so that you can take care of your people. Um that's physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally. Um I'll just echo what Robbie said about a mentor and a coach. I used to have about five or six superintendents I would call. Uh, and I may get five or six different suggestions or recommendations, but they helped me talk through the process. They helped me collectively to make a good decision. And I'm surprised at the number of new leaders that I speak to that aren't talking to anyone. They're not leaning on anyone, they're uh leaning on their board chair, uh, which board chairs are great, but they're not educational leaders. Um, you know, they're they're politicians. Um, so I would just echo that and just strongly, strongly encourage you. Do you have a network? Um that's one of the things that Gail and the affiliates with superintendents, GSSA. Um, that's what we provide. So make sure that you're doing that. Quite Robbie, I'm a brand new leader. I've been hired to be the superintendent. I'm coming in on my first year. I've got all these things that I want to do because I've learned them from wherever I've read them in a book, yeah, right? I've seen some stuff. But I'm going into a district and they've already got a strategic plan. Maybe they're on year three of that strategic plan that they did as a community. Um, how do I go about setting my vision as the new leader while at the same time considering the things that have been going on inside that district before I got there? That's a tough one.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Because in both of the districts that I led as superintendent, I uh came in and we did a new strategic plan. And I can tell you why. The data. Looking at the data and talking to your stakeholders and saying, are we being not transparent, but are we focusing in on the right work? Uh we have to do what's right for kids. A lot of times, our strategic plans are just talking about test scores, test scores, but how do we build up those teachers? Have something in the plan so that those teachers receive professional learning, which is gonna affect the outcomes. How do we look at our community and get their input so it's gonna improve student outcomes? Uh but don't be afraid to if you have to change that strategic plan, find someone who can work with you in developing that and who's gonna get stakeholders out. I'm very proud to say here in Clark County, we had a number of students. I think over 800 students are involved in this process. We uh when I first came here, we started a student advisory council at every single school and required principals to meet with them quarterly or whatever and keep notes of that because as part of your evaluation, we need to know that they have input. But uh yeah, looking at the data, crafting that vision and talking to your board chair or your board members as to why we need to change it. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yeah, I think being very strategic in your decision making year one is really really important because I think when you start naturally that when you start there are more people that come at you with more questions. Uh, and and that's something that happens, and there's there's nothing wrong with thinking about things and telling people that hey, I'm I'm just gonna sit back and I'm gonna evaluate how things were done. Um because there's some things that aren't broken. Yeah, right. And if you go around trying to fix things that that aren't broken, you're gonna find yourself um spinning your wheels a lot, and then just having people to trust and have those conversations with that you trust. Um and uh a lot of open-ended, a lot of broad questions uh that that I ask just to try to get information because you're gathering as much information as you possibly can. Um, and that information gathering allows you to you know to weed through um certain things and figure out you know what direction you need to take things um and how you can improve things. You know, when we talk about what data points are using you you looking at to improve your organization, um there's simple data points that are really important. Uh what percent of your buses are on time every day? Oh yes, it's huge. Um how many days a week do you go over in lunch and cut into instructional time because of your procedures in the lunchroom that you know eat away at teachers' opportunities to be with their kids? So I think if you you look at it holistically, there's tons of data you can look at to help you improve. Good.

Final Takeaways And Thanks

SPEAKER_01 30:18

And those are excellent points. You heard, get by in, listen. I think it's a good reminder, whether they're superintendents or principals. Um, the strategic plan is a living, breathing documentary. It's not set in stone for those five years. It can be changed and updated. Uh, but you heard some great advice from these two leaders on how to do that. So that wraps up today's uh episode with Gail Unscript. We want to thank Robbie Hooker at Park County Schools again and Philip Brown from Jackson County Schools for joining us.