GAEL UnscriptED S2:E15 | Level Up Fulton: with Lisa Steele & Brian Keefer

Turnover doesn’t just drain a district’s budget, it drains trust, momentum, and student support. We talk with Lisa Steele and Dr. Brian Keefer from Fulton County Schools about a different way to approach the problem: build a clear, incentive-based professional learning pathway that helps people see a future inside the organization.

We walk through Level Up Fulton, a three-tier professional development model designed for every employee, from school leaders to classified staff. Level One anchors people in district values and shared language through tools like CliftonStrengths. Level Two gets role-specific with meaningful problems of practice and portfolio-based evidence so learning shows up in daily work. Level Three offers distinct paths that expand leadership capacity at scale, including executive coaching training, high-quality professional learning design, and leadership academy programs for aspiring principals, assistant principals, instructional coaches, and non-instructional leaders.

The results are the headline, but the design choices are the real lesson. We dig into how Fulton uses employee feedback to refine the program, why marketing matters for participation, and how “building the bench” reduces the need to recruit leaders from outside. We also share practical ideas smaller districts can use immediately by tapping internal experts and creating simple, structured growth paths.

If you care about teacher retention, principal retention, leadership development, and professional learning that actually changes outcomes, this conversation offers a blueprint worth stealing. Subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review with the one retention challenge you want solved next.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introductions

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Gale. Real conversation. Real conversation. I'm Dan Wiggins, Executive Director of Gale. Join us as we go beyond the headlines of Georgia's top education leadership. Let's elevate the conversation. Welcome back, Gail family, to another exciting episode of Gail Unscripted. We have two wonderful guests with us today from the Fulton County School System. We've got Lisa Steele and Brian Kiefer. Why don't y'all take just a couple of minutes to introduce yourself to any of our Gale members that may not know you?

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Well, hi, I'm Lisa Steele, and I'm the director of professional learning in our professional learning and leadership development department. And I'm thank you for having us today. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Brian, tell us about yourself. And my name is Dr. Brian Kiefer. I serve as the Executive Director of Professional Learning and Leadership Development with Fulton County Schools. And we are super excited to have been invited to share a little bit about a program that we've put together that's pretty unique that we think could be potentially impactful for districts that are looking to figure out how we can best address issues such as retention and how can we best address the leadership pipeline.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

That's perfect. And that's on the forefront of every school district, not only in the state of Georgia, but across the country. In last year's legislative session, Senate Resolution 237 came out of that, and it was all about teacher and leader recruitment and retention. So you guys were ahead of the game on that. And we know that professional development is so important in building your own leaders. Why don't you tell our audience a little bit maybe your track or your journey to the leadership position that you're at now? How did you get there? What are the other positions you held maybe along the way?

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Yeah, sure. I've been in professional learning for a long time in Fulton. It's professional learning and adult learning is a passion of mine. And what really led me to this point is when I became an instructional coach. And seeing the development of the other employees and helping them along their journey. And I knew from there and scaling it, being an instructional coach at one school to then three schools to then five schools. I knew I could have a larger impact going to the district professional learning office and doing it at a grand scale for not just teachers, but all staff and employees. And so just that experience has led me to where I am now.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Awesome. So when you do professional learning, it's it's teachers, leaders, all of the above, classified employees as well.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Yeah, non-classified everyone.

How They Became Learning Leaders

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Fantastic. Brian, tell them. A lot of them have seen you at Yale conferences for years. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

So my my professional journey, uh I'm originally from Pennsylvania, and so my professional career started off as a special education teacher. I have served as a special education teacher at all levels, K through 12. Uh, actually had an experience as an alternative school teacher in the special education space for a little bit. Uh then when I relocated South, I was an instructional coach, uh, then served as an assistant principal, served eight years as a principal, uh, including the Gale Outstanding Education or Elementary Principal of the Year. Uh, and then I had the opportunity to move into this role. Uh, and this is really my passion. Uh, this was the focus of my dissertation was on creating professional learning structures for leaders uh in both rural and non-rural settings. So when you when you find the dream job opportunity and you can see the impact, that's really my belief is is having the greatest impact wherever you are in the space that you are, and love the fact that we get to impact over 10,000 employees across Fulton County schools with the work that we're doing right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. Level up Fulton. That's what's what you call your professional learning program. How long has that title been there? And maybe how has that changed over the years? Like let's say maybe over the last five years, from what was being done to what's being done now? Well, sure.

Building Level Up Fulton Framework

SPEAKER_02 4:29

So we we don't even have to go back that far because this program is not five years old. All right. So uh Level Up Fulton is a comprehensive incentive-based professional learning model that's been created that serves every employee in our district. Uh, this was the vision of our superintendent, Dr. Looney, about four years ago. Uh, as we heard the stories and as he heard the stories of staff who were looking for opportunities to grow within our organization and looking at the research about how when school districts provide opportunities to invest in their people, that also has a direct impact on retention. That's where this program really was born. Um, it's a three-tiered program. So the way that we design this, first of all, it's optional. So we don't require our staff to jump in, and that's where the incentive part happens. So at level one, the way that we've designed that, uh, that is completely grounded in our district values. So we focus on Clifton Strengths Finder to help people identify who they are and how they bring their authentic selves to their workspace and what that looks like when they're collaborating with others. And then they have the opportunity to engage in four different modules. So we have a blended learning, we have in-person learning opportunities with different focuses. So folks can really design their own path, but at the end of the day, they're demonstrating alignment to our district values. Uh at level two, which then level one completion unlocks level two, that's where uh we provide learning that is differentiated based on the role. So in that level one course, you may have a zone superintendent with a principal, with a bus driver, with a custodian, with a principal, all in the same learning space because it's about the values of the district. At level two is where you really get differentiated based on your role. So folks go through a problem of practice based on their current space. Uh so the meet we try to make the learning meaningful in that space for them. Uh, they complete a portfolio assessment, so it's not just check the box I attended. You actually have to demonstrate application of the learning in your space. Uh, and then that unlocks level three. So level three is where we go deeper into building leadership capacity across all divisions, and so we give folks three different options that they can choose at level three. Uh, the first option they can choose is to be upskilled on how to become an executive coach. So we give that learning, folks demonstrate uh by following the path of executive coaching that at the completion of that, they can then coach in their own space. So if I'm a bus driver, I've now been upskilled to executive coach new bus drivers on how to do the work. The same way that an assistant principal might choose to not follow the path of growing and becoming a principal, they can then serve as coaches for our assistant principals that are either early career or need a little extra support. So the executive coaching is path one. Path two that they can travel at level three is maybe they fell in love with professional learning. So we will upskill them on teaching them what it looks like to both design and deliver professional learning at high standards. So upon completion of their path, they can then come back and serve as the designers and the builders and the deliverers of professional learning across our entire district. And then the third path they can travel is actually taking our leadership development programming and shifting that over into level up. So our current leadership development programming under our Fulton Leadership Academy includes programs such as our Aspiring Principals Program, our Aspiring Assistant Principals Program, our Aspiring Instructional Coaches program, and our aspiring non-instructional leaders program to serve those folks that are not in the instructional role, but still need that ability to lead in the work and then the space where they are. So we're really trying to develop internal leadership and giving folks the path forward. That doesn't necessarily mean a job change, but it can mean a job change. It can move up in the organization, or you can just love what you do and help others grow in that space.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Well Lisa, you mentioned that uh a part of the professional learning program is classified employees, and Brian just touched on that. Talk about why it's important for your uh whatever the title is in a particular district, but uh the director or the leader over the maintenance department or the transportation department or school nutrition that are dealing with classified employees. Uh, why is it so important for you all in the Fulton County School System to make sure that you're providing those leaders with good strong leadership coaching and opportunities so that they can lead those departments? How did that come about?

SPEAKER_03 9:23

Yeah, great question. Um, one thing that we found is we were saying we were offering professional learning for all employees, but oftentimes the offerings can be random offerings and just a splattering of things that may or may not connect to them. Um and so this really helped us to create that um uh relevant opportunities in learning that really are meaningful to them in their roles. Um and so I think that kind of um bringing the structure and clarity to seeing that path and growth. Um, oftentimes you get to a point in your career where you're seen as the leader or you're in a very specialized position like a maintenance worker, and you don't think that they need any further training and development, but we all need that training. And so this provides that for them and gives that structure and clarity to professional learning versus just going into a catalog of offerings and saying, hmm, let me see it's hit or miss if there's something there for me or not.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yeah. So many times in leadership positions, you know, we we were really good at our job, whatever that job was, uh, and then all of a sudden we become a leader and no one really teaches us how to lead. Uh so I think it's uh just a great thing that you're doing to make sure that you're doing a comprehensive leadership program for everyone in your life.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

And organizations are always changing, and so we have to keep learning. And so if we just stop, then we're not continuing to grow along with the organization. Um so that was important.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah, uh yesterday at our Gill board meeting we were talking about, you know, the the younger generation that very quickly within five years will be 80 percent of our GIL membership. But how they think differently, their expectations are different, um what they want out of professional organizations and professional development is different, and how it's important for us, just like for a school district, to stay relevant with what they're wanting. And the the changes in leadership jobs are coming so fast and furious. How are y'all handling that in Fulton County? You know, people for the most part aren't becoming an elementary principal and staying in that seat for 10, 12, 15 years and retiring. There's a lot of movement within the district. Uh everybody the superintendent positions get a lot of attention for the turnover, but it's happening in every leadership position. So is that all part of the plan for your leadership program? Is you're you're trying to take care of that and prepare for all of those upcoming positions? For sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:14

And that that is our our big idea, is if you're keeping your people because you're investing in your people and you're showing them that we're creating for you and making clear paths forward for you, then you're not having to go outside your own district to find your next set of leaders. You are building the bench internally, and you have folks that aren't necessarily having to go through an aspiring leaders program through that leadership development pipeline space, you're actually upskilling a variety of leaders. So you're upskilling folks to become coaches of others because maybe that next position isn't for them. But we also at the same time are developing a deep, deep bench knowing that we have a significant portion of our staff that are in that upper quadrant of getting close to retirement. And so when you also look at the front end and you look at the decrease in the amount of kids that are choosing the education pathway coming out of high school, going into those college spaces, the best recruitment strategy is a retention strategy. And that's where this is different, and that's really the focus of what we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Yeah, yeah. I think sometimes we forget how costly it is when we have that turnover uh between the recruitment, especially if we're bringing in people from the outside, you know, there it's a lot, it is time consuming, and it's always impressive when you see school districts that are building their bench and and have a plan. So that's that's fantastic. What problems uh that school districts across the state face do you think level up Fulton helps solve?

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Uh creating these pathways for employees and seeing that there's something else for me, whatever that may be. Um, again, keeping that relevance to the work and growth. Um, and that's one of in research, one of the reasons that people leave is because they don't see anything for them and they don't see that pathway. Um, and so that's one of the big pieces and things that this solves for. It really feeds into them. Um, I think one of the successful things about it is that it's built with the employees. Um and we do a lot of focus grouping with employees to hear what are the needs of your job and your role. Um, and so hearing that really helps with the we're solving for feeding into you and pouring into you. And what would you add, Brian?

Level Three Coaching And Academies

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Well, and I I think what people in general are looking for is connection. They're looking for connection to the their district, they're looking for connection to the values of their district. They don't just want to open the door of their car in the parking lot, walk into their job, check the box that they did their job, and then leave. What we're establishing is a connection to the broader goals and vision of our district by creating something that at the entry level, at that level one, ensures that you walk away grounded in the values of who we are as a district. And then you're being able to move forward and find that differentiation piece because if you feel that, then you are going to stay where you are as opposed to trying to find it somewhere else. Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Uh, what is a normal uh leadership development program? You mentioned you had one for instructional leaders or instructional coaches. Is that a one-year program? Do they meet monthly? Is it after hours? Do you give them professional leave during the day? What does that timeline look like for a typical leadership development program or cohort?

SPEAKER_03 15:58

So one of the programs we have is Aspiring Coaches Program, and it's a year-long program, and it's portfolio based as well. Um and another component of it is really having that job embedded practice. Um they're going in and they're learning about the coaching cycle, and then they're going in and practice, practicing the coaching cycle, and then getting that feedback from our team, and then going back and practicing again. And so really having that competency-based on the job performance, on the job practicing, and keeping that portfolio all along the way so that then when it comes time to go for job position and interviews, they have their portfolio to show they've had practice and experience at this. And I think one of the aspiring leadership programs that is new this year that's really taken off is the aspiring non-instructional leadership program. Um goes back to your question about the positions that maybe it's people in the central office who want to go into a leadership pathway and how do they do that? And that's a year-long program as well. Um typically most of the programs we have are um competency-driven and portfolio-based. So there's a lot of on-the-job application and practice and getting feedback from our team. Our team divides the participants into smaller groups to give that more one-on-one feedback with a coach champion. Um so uh yeah, I think those are two great examples of our leadership programs that are um one, a long-standing program we've had with the coaching, and then with the new non-instructional uh leadership program.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

I love how you're you're teaching them that coaching process. I I think back to my journey, you know, and nobody taught us how to have tough conversations or even meaningful conversations, even after something as simple as a classroom observation. I can remember as an assistant principal, I had no clue what kind of conversation to have with a teacher. I was intimidated of what to say or what to ask, and so I think that's a that is a change in today's world, and I think we do a much better job in education of teaching our leaders how to have those meaningful conversations and provide meaningful feedback.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

And that's why we also created that pathway of the professional coaching to the level three, um, because that's one of the greatest impacts on retention is having a coach and having that person there along the way. Um and so what about those positions who have never been afforded a coach before? Um, and so if we can train our own employees up to be really good professional coaches, that's gonna have a huge impact on our retention.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah, yeah. So maybe that's gonna answer this question. But what are some of the current outcomes that you all are seeing as a part of this level up, Fulton? Is that one of the outcomes? Are you seeing an improvement in retention? We got some numbers here.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Right. Well, you don't do it if you don't know the impact, right? That's right. So uh there are several data points that we lean really into when it comes to this. Um, the first of which is our overall district retention rate, because you know, you you want to see where you were when you started and where you are now. And we have seen an overall district retention rate of uh an increase from 75% three years ago to right now, we're sitting at 89%, which is pretty significant in a short period of time. And we're really excited about when this year's data comes through because if the number of contracts that we offered and the number of contracts that were signed for the upcoming school year hold true, then that number's gonna rise significantly from 89% again.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

Um, so we're excited about that. Uh, we're excited about what we're seeing differently from our principal retention rate. We all know the incredible impact that having a principal in place over a long period of time and the value that that has on student outcomes. Um, three years ago, we were at a turnover rate of about 18% of our principals, which is the average for urban school districts. This past year we dropped that number to five percent. Wow. So when you're talking about 102 schools and you're only turning five principals, and several of those were just because of retirement, yeah, and you already have a significant bench because of what you've built through your aspiring leaders program, we're really seeing incredible outcomes. Now, is this the silver bullet? Is this the only reason why? Of course, there are multiple factors at play. But we also know from what we've gotten back in our surveys of asking people why they're staying in our stay surveys, that level of Fulton is a significant contributor as to the why.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Well, that's right. And we know all the research tells us people don't leave jobs, they leave leaders. So whether it's at the district level, and that I would even argue maybe even more important at that school level, those teachers stay based on that principle, that leadership, those assistant principals and the in the environment that's created there.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

And one of the impacts we've seen also is just the level of engagement and professional learning. Um, this has been going for a year and a half, almost two years now, and at the year and a half mark, we've got almost 2,000 people involved in this program. Wow. And we have 10,000 employees, and so that's huge to have almost 2,000 people involved in this in the first year and a half. Um and we just continue to see it grow. If we if we had more employees, we'd have even more than that because we have a wait list of getting into the program. And so that seeing the level of involvement and professional learning, um, that's been a huge impact.

Results Retention And Student Outcomes

SPEAKER_00 21:50

It's phenomenal. Um, with a big district like that, where you you know, I'm assuming you don't wait until a principal opening or a Director opening happens to post the job, I assume. With this program, maybe you're looking throughout the year. Do you have like um do y'all interview like just for principal openings at the elementary job and you all place them or do you do at school specifically? How do you do that in Fulton?

SPEAKER_02 22:19

So we do not have the placement space, those hiring decisions are made by our zone superintendents with then final approval from our superintendent. One of the things that we have transitioned into is because people also need to see the value that if I'm taking this much time to engage in one year of level one, a second year of level two, and a third year of an aspiring leadership program, I want to feel that there's extra value that's placed in the time that I've invested. So we've gone behind that. And one of the requirements that we've put into that standard operating procedure is there has to be a certain percentage of those that are brought to the interview table that are directly from our programs. And so we've seen the impact of that as we look at over the past principal hires that we've made in the past two years, hires that have been made, have come from our aspiring leaders program. And the couple exceptions to that, we had one principal who came back who was a student at that high school who went elsewhere and was a principal for 15 years. And so connection because that was her homeschool, and another principal opportunity that came open was somebody who came from the district office that was an expert in what the needs of that school were. So that was the person that was brought in. So we're not having to go outside because we're building the pipeline, because what's happening in those aspiring programs are we're going to the people who are making the hiring decisions and asking them, what are you looking for? Like what are the specific skills, what are the specific competencies that you want these leaders to demonstrate? And then we're backwards designing those aspiring programs to ensure that we're hitting it and we're hitting every element along the way. So when you're making a hiring decision, the people making the decision had input as to what the program looked like on the front end. So they believe in it deeper.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

I love that. I love that. I think that's very smart. Um, what are some of the things maybe that you've learned along the way? You're you're finishing up year two of this program, um, thinking about, you know, Gale members out there that are trying to do some things uh back home in their home district. Um maybe what is something that you've learned from this that has been really, really good? And maybe what's something that you've tweaked in year two that you didn't start in year one or has there been?

SPEAKER_03 24:39

I think to engage the employees in the development process. It's not something that we can develop in isolation of what we think in the professional learning and leadership development department or at the district executive level, we think that they need. We need to keep that engagement with the employees who are in those positions and want to be in those positions in developing and designing the program. Um, that's really made it a robust program and hearing from the employees in the job positions. Um Yeah, what about yourself?

SPEAKER_02 25:17

So I think when we go back to when we first started down this path and designing what this could potentially look like, when we looked around at districts not only in Georgia, but when we looked around at districts across the country, there was no one else that had a program that looked like this that we could pattern it after. So we had to create organically from what we think our best structure would have been and our best effort would have been, knowing that we're gonna give it our best shot, but we know we're going to need to continually refine it. So in that space with those participants that are jumping in, the first group jumped in not knowing anything about what this could be. But their feedback, as well as the feedback of every cohort that we've now enrolled since, we go deeply into the feedback from the learner experience to not only compare it to those who are in the supervisory and the executive roles, but I want to know if I'm an HVAC person that works in my district, that I have the ability to give you feedback about what this needs to be for me and that that will then be adjusted. So we're constantly adjusting the programs and what we offer and what the learning looks like based on the feedback. And then we also look at how effective are we doing? How are we meeting their needs? And across the board on a five-point scale, our participants are rating us between 4.85 and 4.95 consistently in the courses that we're offering. So that's telling us that it hits. Yeah. Uh and it's impacting the folks that we designed it to impact. And then you also look at the space of, well, then how is that translating to student outcomes? Because if we're growing the capacity of every one of our staff members to do their job at a high level, and we then are giving them the space to go forth and do because they're demonstrating they can go forth and do through the portfolio assessments, then how is that actually impacting kids? And when we look at what our district data was this past year, we've seen the highest graduation rate that we've ever seen. Uh, we've seen incredible outcomes when it comes to milestones results. We're seeing increased results in SAT scores. So at the end of the day, you design it for the adults for the intention of impacting the kids. And that's the end game, and we're starting to now see more and more end results, which is our end user, which are our students.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

And I think one thing when you don't often think of this when you're designing uh professional learning in programs like this, the marketing of it. Market your programs when you think about what you would advise other districts to do. When you have a great program like this, um, make sure they know that that program exists. You really heavily market that and go out and and talk with people about what this, what, where it came from, why did we develop this? Um, what is it gonna do for you? How is it gonna help you just in your everyday job skills and upskilling your own personal and professional self and also provide you with a growth path. Um, so I think that's a big thing I would I'd recommend for other districts to think about um really marketing your program and getting the word out there.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah, I think it's fascinating the things you're talking about here. I would think that young educators that are looking for a school district to begin their career that's important to them to hear something like that, to see that path. I was talking to a superintendent just last week, and um she said, you know, uh we don't have any type of professional in-house professional learning development like that, very small. And they're having a really hard time. Talk to those smaller districts that maybe they're watching this and they're going, Well, I hear you, Lisa and Brian, but we're a small district. We don't have a professional learning department, we can't do all the things that you do. But talk to them a little bit about what they could do on a smaller scale to replicate some of the things that you are doing and why you think that's so important.

Lessons Learned Small District Advice

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Utilize your internal experts in your district. You may not have a professional learning department, but you do have a lot of people in those positions with great expertise and pull them in and utilize them and their experiences and their knowledge to help you build this program. Um, knowing the outcomes that this is gonna provide of the sustainability and retention of employees and knowing that's gonna pay it forward to them and their departments, um, you can really tap into your experts and your departments to hey, what skills and what knowledge can you also impart and have them come in and help teach some of the classes and be a part of the development. Um, you may not have a huge department of five or six or ten uh program specialists to help you build it, but you do have those assets in your district that you can tap into. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

And their numbers may look different, they may not have 2,000 in it, but they may have 10 in a cohort. And I think you're right. They can easily replicate some of that. So let's say they're they're either watching or listening to the this podcast and they go, I really like some of the things I'm hearing. Because one thing we we stress at Gail is we want to steal ideas from people that are doing great things. Who can they contact? Where can they go? Can they go to your website and see things? Can they talk to someone uh if they've got questions? Talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Sure. So we are big believers in sharing. Sharing is caring, and and we we I I borrow this from a phrase that one of my leaders taught me was admire and acquire. And so um we we love the idea that we're being offered this space to be able to share our story because we know the impact that it has on our students and our staff, and we are not the kind that hold that close to the vest. If so, we would encourage them to reach out directly to Lisa or directly to me. Uh we do have some information on our website, but there's also a story to be told that makes that website information more understandable and applicable to local districts. So we're here for it. Um if we can help kids in any space, that is our that is our purpose. That's why we chose this profession in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

I think that's great. So if you're you're listening to this podcast and you hear this and you want some more information, reach out. They've done the hard work, they've they've gone through the process. They built a program that they can share with you so you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Uh, and you can tweak it to your particular district or community of what you need, but it'd be a great starting point. And you've heard from them, they would love to share what they've learned and what they're doing with you. So please don't hesitate uh to reach out. Are there any final comments that you want to make about either your program or your leadership development or just something great going on in Fulton County?

How To Connect And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_03 32:14

Yeah, I'm just excited. We're at the final phases of wrapping up the development of level three for it to launch uh in the fall of next year. And so um just seeing the entire program being launched, um, I I can't wait for that. I'm so excited about that. Um, and seeing that first cohort of people who started with us when um it was just getting off the ground to see that they're finally getting to that level three and going to kind of graduate through that piece. I look forward to that and it's so exciting. Um, and and yes, I'm happy to speak, and we we love speaking to other people and sharing how did we do this and and how can it look in your districts? Um, so happy to do that uh and look forward to that.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

And I think from my perspective, this whole journey of helping build this program, but most importantly, then seeing the output or the impact that it has on our staff with the student outcome data, um, there's just such a feeling of this is why we are here. Um, and this is our purpose. This is an impactful opportunity that we see firsthand because we get to see the people in the training sessions and and we get to see their reactions, we hear their stories and the stories they're telling about how that's changed their whole professional world. And even the fact that some of the learning that's happening in this space is also helping them grow from a personal standpoint. They're taking the strategy as like a crucial conversation strategy, and they're telling they're telling the story about how they had a crucial conversation with their oldest child. And so just the knowing that this has the opportunity to make a difference on both a professional and a personal level is an opportunity that we would love to share with others and help you bring that to your local community and impact the folks doing the hard work where you are.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

Fantastic. Well, thanks you. Thanks to both of you for taking the time to drive over from Atlanta and enjoy the Athens lack of traffic. Maybe that was a good experience for you. But thank you so much for coming and sharing, and we can't wait to see how the program continues to grow in the future. And congratulations on what sounds like an outstanding program in Fulton County. Awesome. Well, thank you for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Yeah, thank you for having us. Thank you.