The Untypical Parent™ Podcast

When Your Parenting Plane Gets Diverted to Amsterdam

• Liz Evans - The Untypical OT • Season 3 • Episode 6

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What happens when your carefully planned parenting journey takes an unexpected turn? For Archie, specialist ADHD nurse prescriber and director of ADHD Care Limited, raising a neurodivergent child meant learning to embrace a completely different path than the one he'd imagined.

This deeply honest conversation explores the complexity of neurodivergent family life through both professional expertise and raw personal experience. Archie shares his journey raising an autistic/ADHD, 10-year-old son, alongside a 6-year-old neurotypical daughter, describing the unique challenges this creates for siblings, marriages, and personal identity. With refreshing candour, he dismantles the myth of perfect parenting and reveals how even mental health professionals struggle with adaptation.

Archie talks gently about having a neurodivergent child is a bit like planning a trip to Italy but having your plane diverted to Amsterdam – all your preparations suddenly irrelevant as you navigate unfamiliar territory. This metaphor beautifully captures the emotional adjustment parents face, not abandoning dreams but reimagining them in unexpected contexts.

The conversation delves into practical strategies too – from managing morning micro-transitions to creating dedicated spaces where fathers can openly discuss parenting challenges. Archie's perspective as a dad brings much-needed balance to conversations often dominated by maternal voices, highlighting how men frequently lack opportunities to express vulnerability around parenting struggles.

Whether you're raising neurodivergent children or simply wanting to better understand those who do, this episode offers profound insights about acceptance, self-compassion, and finding support in unexpected places. As Archie reminds us, "You're doing better than you think" – words every parent occasionally needs to hear.

You can find Archie here: 

On Instagram and via his podcast here 

Support the show

I'm Liz, The Untypical OT. I support parents and carers in additional needs and neurodivergent families to protect against burnout and go from overwhelmed to more moments of ease.

🔗 To connect with me, you can find all my details on Linktree:
https://linktr.ee/the_untypical_ot

And if you'd like to contact me about the podcast please use the text link at the top or you can email at:
contact@untypicalparentpodcast.com.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Untypical Parent Podcast, where doing things differently is more than okay. I'm Liz Evans and I am the Untypical OT and I am your host. I'm here to open up conversations that go beyond the stereotypical child, parent and family. This is your go-to space to find your backup team, the people who truly get it, because we were never meant to do this alone. Each week, through a mix of guest interviews and solo episodes, we'll explore a wide range of topics, because every family is unique and there's no one size fits all when it comes to parenting. But before we dive in, if you're enjoying what I share and want to support the podcast, you can buy me a cuppa. You'll find all the links in the show notes. Are you ready? Come join me.

Speaker 1:

Archie is a specialist ADHD nurse prescriber and the director of ADHD Care Limited, a leading UK-based neurodevelopmental service offering gold standard assessment, diagnosis and treatment for ADHD in adults and children. With a clinical background in mental health and a passion for improving access to ADHD care, archie is known for his warm, person-centred approach and commitment to raising awareness around neurodiversity. He also hosts the ADHD Care podcast, where he interviews experts and advocates to explore the lived experience and science of ADHD. As a parent of a neurodivergent child, archie brings both professional expertise and personal insight to his work. Archie, hi Liz, welcome to the Untypical Parent podcast. Thank you ever so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

Archie and I go back a long way. We're not going to talk about how long, because then everyone will know how old I am, but Archie and I worked together in CAMHS quite a while ago now, wasn't it, archie?

Speaker 2:

Yes, we did. Yeah, it's just that it feels like a distant memory now, but it's good that we kept in touch throughout.

Speaker 1:

Yeah yeah, and it was one of those jobs that I really enjoyed. It was a great team that we were in um. I think we were kind of fairly new into our careers when you think about where we are now.

Speaker 2:

We were fairly new into our careers, um, but a good place to work and certainly I know I don't want to go off tangent right now, but I was in in that location where we worked together before yeah more or less the whole place. Now they've built flats don't tell me that yeah, it's, it's unreflexible. Honestly, it's like what.

Speaker 1:

I couldn't recognize it so well, we were out the back, weren't we in porter cabins anyway?

Speaker 2:

that's what I was going to say.

Speaker 1:

So the whole thing, the port obviously, and the building's gone as well so yeah, it felt like okay anyway we've digressed, and this is probably what's going to happen with this podcast episode, isn't it archie?

Speaker 1:

archie's brain and my brain are likely to go off on down rabbit holes and all sorts. I'm going to do my best to keep us on track, which would be quite a meandering one, the conversation that we have, but actually the first question that I ask everybody that comes onto the podcast as a guest at the moment is Archie, are you the perfect parent?

Speaker 2:

definitely not. I think, when I think about that question, uh, I don't think there is such a thing called a perfect parent. I think we try our best, and certainly I do as a parent, and I don't strive to be such a thing called a perfect parent. I think we try our best, and certainly I do as a parent, and I just strive to be a perfect parent. And sometimes you have to give yourself grace and I think, as much as it's hard to say, but sometimes you look at yourself and you think, gosh, you know, we have moments like this where you get to the end of the day and you start to go through all the different moments you've had with the children throughout the day.

Speaker 1:

And you think, gosh, I'm the awful worst parent ever. Yeah, remember that one. Really well, still get it.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. But I think the good thing with parenting, there's always the next day and the next day and you know, young children tend not to hold grudges, and I think we should not hold grudges on ourselves and be more, as I said, give a bit of leeway and more patience with ourselves in our parenting role. So I think, yeah, the notion of perfect parents, it's unrealistic and I think it's setting yourself at the bar too high. Yeah, I don't think you should be looking at that.

Speaker 1:

And where did you kind of? Where did you come to sit with that? How did you come to sit with that? Was that something that as soon as your kids were born, you thought I know, I'm not going to get this perfect and that's okay. Or is that something that's kind of grown and developed for you as you've kind of, as the kids have got older and you've experienced parenting a bit more?

Speaker 2:

I think a bit of both. I think, as a parent, naturally, when you go into this, there's no this, there's no one that prepares you to what you're stepping into and, naturally, what people tend to have the idea of the parent who is this amazing, fantastic parent who's able to just whiz through the day and make plans and get on with the kids and multitask and do all of that. And I think when you go into the parents, that's kind of where I was with it and I think when you go into the parenting, that's kind of where I was with it. I was, you know. I remember asking myself how am I going to be a parent? How am I going to be like once I step into this role? And I think we gravitate towards the fancy, nice way of parenting and you look at other people's lives you might be social media or friends or family that you idolise and you think you've only seen the good bits.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And you strive to be that, not understanding and realizing that there is tough moments and challenges that you got through and I think it's been a journey. Certainly for me it's been. I went in there with this notion of I want to be the better, more, not the best as I can. I think that notion came eventually I wanted to be like my other friends or family or people that I was seeing. But that quickly changed, particularly one when I had my neurodivergent son, who obviously we discovered that pretty, pretty early. I know we'll go into detail about that in a minute, but I think that notion of perfect parenting, me working in this field and knowing what challenges that brings yeah, I think that that was. Those hopes were dashed pretty, pretty early yeah, and it's interesting about.

Speaker 1:

It's worth telling the listeners what it is you do, because actually you work as, and I'll let you say yep, so, uh, so, like what liz is mentioning before, that we work together.

Speaker 2:

So I've worked as a clinician uh, I'm a you know mental health nurse background, qualified to then working in the private sector. So I worked in the NHS for nearly 20 years before setting up my own private practice, which is a neurodiverse practice where we specialise in assessing, diagnosing and treating individuals and young children, adults, with neurodiverse needs, such as ADHD and autism. So that's been my passion going back to my NHS days in.

Speaker 2:

So I think, when we worked together at least yeah yeah, right about 2007, before that actually, so yeah, so that that's kind of my background. And to then, uh, come into this field thinking I'm the expert, I know everything and certainly I know we'll go into detail about my son in a second, but it was an eye-opener and I felt I could, because we used to run parenting workshops, do you remember? Oh don't we used to do so and I remember some parents looking at us going you haven't got any idea, have you?

Speaker 1:

when I look back at those days and just think, what was I? You know, but you only know what you know at the time. And of course you're employed and you say they say go and run this parenting group. And you think, yeah, yeah, I can do this, no problem. I've read all the books, I know what to say. And now when I look back I just think, oh crikey.

Speaker 2:

I know, yeah, and you're very textbook led when you're delivering these trainings and now when I run these courses, it's so different and now I can, I can completely understand.

Speaker 1:

So I think, yeah, so that's that's kind of sort of my background, um, and you know, as I said, we will talk more about my son, um, as we go along yeah, and it's probably quite a good time now actually, if you tell us a bit about your family and you've kind of referred to your son and I know that's kind of been, as you say, a bit of a journey for you and a bit of discovery probably for him and self-discovery for you as well, and you know your whole family and how you're all managing that. So tell us a bit about your family and what's going on there.

Speaker 2:

So I am a dad to, a proud dad to two wonderful, amazing children young. So my son, who we're referring to there he's age 10, and I've got a daughter who's age six. So my son, who we're referring to there he's age 10. And I've got a daughter who's age six. So my son is the neurodivergent one and then my daughter is the neurotypical. So we had obviously my son first and, as I said, it's a joy when you have a son.

Speaker 2:

Well, for me, it's not one of those situations where you want to find out what you're having before you have. Like. I remember going to the hospital and hearing that, oh gosh, you're gonna have a son, know that there's nothing wrong with having a daughter, but that excitement, elation, oh gosh, you're gonna have a son. And already I was really thinking because you know all of my hobbies, gosh, we can go to football together, not that you can't do that with girls. But I had all these visions and plans and things and, like I said, honestly, when he came along and then quickly, a few years after you, started to notice the difference in him and I think to have that gift. I'll see it as a gift.

Speaker 2:

I think to be gifted with a son with neurodiverse needs or a child with neurodiverse needs. It kind of sways you in a different direction and I think the whole navigation and I've spoken because I also do a podcast, by the way, I forgot to mention that so I've discussed a lot about my son in some of these challenging periods that I'm describing on my podcast, where I describe it as it's about, like as if you it's like when you want to go on holiday and you purchase a ticket to go to italy, right, and you realize, wow, that that plane's been diverted, it's going to amsterdam or to you know sri lanka or wherever, and you've got no choice to convert.

Speaker 2:

You change your route to go back to italy. Now you have to just deal with being in amsterdam, and that's how I see it with neurodiverse uh, having a neurodiverse child where you just have to make do and learn the language in Amsterdam you have to learn Dutch, you have to. All the utilities and stuff that you prepared before complete goes out the window yeah, they get dumped yeah, exactly, and that.

Speaker 2:

That, to me, is that that's, and as a dad as well, I've again I've mentioned this on our podcast, where us dads, we don't usually talk about how we feel, because I think there's a lot of suppression of emotions that we go through, particularly with adjusting to that. It's a massive shift in a relationship as well. I remember that. I just wanted to shut down was he young?

Speaker 2:

so he was officially diagnosed, uh, at the age of six, I think. Well, the, yeah, the autism definitely was picked up way before. I think it was five when he was officially diagnosed. But as you know, liz, you you pick these things up. I remember going to nursery and hearing about okay, there's something unique. They didn't say it's unique, but they were highlighting a few things there. So, yeah, officially diagnosed, um, around about age of five and six with adhd autism.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think it's really important and I think that's why I was so keen to have you on. Archie is actually, you know, when I think about the followers that I have and the groups that I run, the community that I've got, the majority are women, are mums. Yeah, and actually you don't hear the male voices and the dad voices in those conversations. And you know, I've had, um, a guy called bracky from super good bikers come on and he runs a motorbike group and he set that up originally to provide an opportunity for dads to be able to come and talk about what it was like for them going through and experiencing and learning to cope with having children that are on a different path, doing things differently. Yeah, um, and that's why I think it's really important to get the dad's voice in that as well. And it's really interesting that you said that your reaction to that even in the field that you're in and so shows, again, none of us are perfect is that your reaction was to shut down in that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you go into.

Speaker 2:

I think as men generally we tend to not open up about emotions and how we feel, and there's a bit of shame, there's a bit of guilt that comes with that. And I also remember some of my friends. I've got two friends that have neurodivergent children as well, and I was aware that they had these children, but we never had a discussion about how they feel, about understanding what the children's needs are and how they feel in terms of their parenting.

Speaker 2:

All, all of us three, we were going through the same, in the same boat, and we're very close. We'll go out and talk about football, talk about all the exciting things, but nothing about emotions or about our children, which is interesting up until I think um, I think it was one of my mates actually, he, uh. So we did this thing on a Friday I think it was during lockdown, I think where, you know, people were going online and catching up. We're having these social gatherings virtually, and one of my friends set up a, uh, a dad's kind of like friday evening social thing online yeah I remember that.

Speaker 2:

And then uh, and then from there he sort of branched off and did one where he wanted to talk about uh challenges in mental health and parenting, which was quite interesting for me because I remember him sending me a message saying Archie, what are you, how do you feel about coming on online and for us to just make as a small group and just talk about you know mental health because he knows I work in the field, yeah, which is quite unique. So initially I was taken aback by it, was like gosh, you know, this is so different to what we used to like. It's got our relationship. But I saw there's a good opportunity for us to connect and to actually be true to ourselves and start opening up about how we feel and about our kids and what journeys we were going through. And all of us I think there's three of us, four, I think four of us yeah we were all going through the same journey and struggling in our own unique ways without actually being able to open up and talk about it and them knowing I work in the field.

Speaker 2:

Again, there was a bit of this shame that they didn't want to come to me and even ask me, like Archie, how do you go about things like applying for an EHCP? You know education, healthcare plan? Um, you know those things that if you know someone working in the field you can literally just ring them up. But I think again for them it was a shame. But anyway, that the positive of that. It created this opportunity for us to get together regularly. And we started to do this on a regular basis, where we ended up just talking and opening up about how we feel and giving each other a bit of grace. And the next thing, other dads who didn't have children with neurodiverse needs wanted to join in and just wanted to offer some support and just listening into it.

Speaker 2:

So this sounds amazing yeah, it was a great opportunity since lockdown and we've caught up from time to time. Now, obviously, now things have opened up. But I think, yeah, from then on. I think that was a turning point for me anyway, in terms of opening up, yeah, and stuff.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and that's I say. I often kind of think where are the dads in all this? Where are the dads' voices? And you know, I think it's often very stereotypically, women will find groups of other women to find those supports. Um, and there are a couple of dads in the community that I've got, but they very, very rarely speak. Um, I would they wonder whether they're watching from afar, I don't know um that horrible word lurking but they are just having a bit of a lurk in the background and they're still picking stuff up, but just not quite so able to open up and talk about it, and I think it is really important that those conversations happen. Um, and we know, you know, I'm separated from my kids, dads, and I know that's the same for you with your relationship, and actually we know that some of the impacts as well of, and the stresses of having and being in, uh, you know, neurodivergent families is really tricky and can place a huge amount of stress on relationships. Um, and you know, and even some of us that work in the fields, you know, know all the what we should do and what we should be doing all the time, but actually putting that into practice in our real life is really difficult sometimes and, like you say, we shut down and we withdraw and it can put things into a really difficult place for the family to recover from just thinking about.

Speaker 1:

You know the fact that you run a business now. So I there was always something about Archie. I knew entrepreneurial, there was always gonna be something. And then off he went and I watched him go and I thought there he, he goes and off he went. But obviously running a business is a huge amount of work, huge amount of work, and you're not just employed. You know, as an entrepreneur yourself, you've got a whole team that you now have and a business that you've got. So on top of that you've got that. And then you're a dad as well and you're raising kids in that. How do you juggle all that, archie?

Speaker 2:

That's a great question and sometimes I stop myself and ask yeah, how do I juggle it? I think it's a balancing act. I don't always get things right, honestly. I think it's about setting clear our sort of boundaries between work and home. I believe Planning plays a huge part.

Speaker 2:

Um, I think for me, the I know the days that I have the children, as you said. I think for us there's a good system that we set up whereby I'm heavily involved in the children. Where I see them, you know we spit it up. It's more kind of co-parenting. So it's for the children, consistency it's there and it's set up so they're familiar with it and it helps me with my work.

Speaker 2:

I can plan work around that, having a clear schedule of how I run this, but also factoring in my own me time and my own personal time to do things that I enjoy and sometimes that that can feel selfish sometimes and I remember like someone saying to me oh, you should just book a holiday with other kids and just go with your friends, and I feel so guilty, like I think I should be doing this. I should be prioritizing the kids. The kids don't have and if you're not looking after yourself, how do you think you'd be able to then take on that parenting role and run other than you just described there, liz, where I'm having to juggle A, b, c, d and D and I don't take time, not just book a holiday, but just sitting down and just prioritising you? Yeah?

Speaker 2:

A bit of self-care, and I think factoring self-care in all of what we discuss is so important and I try by all means to include that, even if it's me going for a walk. I like exercising. If you've seen me run a few times, liz, I like to go off, I have.

Speaker 1:

I spotted you out running.

Speaker 2:

So that's me Like, even if it's an hour, I'll be like Archie and you know, sometimes you can easily like, you know these things can easily get lost, but I think, having that schedule and knowing that, okay, I want to prioritize the kids, you know, work and myself, but there's quite a lot, as you know, when you're juggling children in general, there's a lot that's involved, and then you add the neurodiverse component to it.

Speaker 2:

My son there's a lot of school meetings. My son's gone through different challenges. Up until now We've had to move him to school a few times and again, I think we can do a whole podcast on that, trying to find the right environment and right support for him that's going to meet for his needs.

Speaker 2:

And you, as a parent, you're constantly fighting. Yes, a whole struggle, and it's tiring as much as I you know I'm. I'm fortunate enough that I work in the field. I've got people that I can turn to in terms of like support for my son. Um, you know people like yourself. If I need some input around, you know sensory, occupational therapy type, that's helpful, but at the same time, it's still a battle. It's still a struggle where you're fighting against a society where it's like, if you don't fit into that mode, it's challenging and it's tough. So, but anyway, to go back to what you're describing, so I think it's just a balancing act and I try to to, as I said, prioritize me and my and my needs as well.

Speaker 2:

In all, of that um, and I try and utilize other people's support as well. So for work, um, I've had to learn this entrepreneurial thing as, as I went on, it's just at least that I didn't go to some business school and did a course yep, I think a business.

Speaker 1:

It's muddled your way through like we do.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it falls on your lap. I remember setting it up at like two o'clock in the morning, going I've got this idea right, okay, and the next thing it just started to grow and, yeah, but I think I'm learning as I go. I'm again, I'm not the greatest, uh, uh, you know, I'm sure my colleagues would say you know, there are things there that I've learned on the way, I think, you navigate your way through it. Um, but it's, it's it's having the right people you can trust and turning to you know to take, or ever talk sorry not to take everything on, that's another thing. Yeah, if it's terms of like support with kids, for example, if you have friends, family, that you can turn to, I know that can be difficult, particularly, you know, for me and my family. They live in, you know, essex, which can be a bit of a trek, but I have other family members and friends kind of locally that I can turn to, because that can be time consuming and when you have to juggle the two, sometimes the needs of the kids can uh, outweigh the needs of the work and likewise the other way around. So it's a constant juggling and balancing acts and there's no harm in turning to child care, like you know, using nannies or after school care if needs be, and that should before.

Speaker 2:

I used to look at that as I'm failing. Why am I having to rely on another person that I'm having to pay for to look after the kids, like I'm the parent? I should be able to do that, but there's no harm in that, there's no shame in that, but to me, I just see it as I'm failing. Yeah, why do I have to turn to other people when I can just do it? You know, I should just get on with it, and I think it's the way I was raised as well and I actually just get on with it and that's a big thing, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

I think when we start to fall back on which the how we were raised, and you've got that kind of voice in your ear that's your mum or your dad or whoever kind of was really significant in your upbringing. You know, I have a lot of that. We laugh. My mum used to have this saying oh for goodness sake, elizabeth, pull yourself together. And I used to have that still ringing in my ears that when things get really tough, oh for goodness sake, elizabeth, pull yourself together.

Speaker 1:

Now, my mum is lovely and she's really caring and she would never say that in a. You know she was being dismissive of me, but it's funny how those little things from your childhood or the comments that your mum might have made or your dad might have made or whoever, still echo in our parenting with our kids. Um, you know, and it's really typical that we'll bring, you know, the good bits that we really thought were amazing about our parents and we try and dump the bits that we didn't like so much and we're going to be the best parent because we, we know it. And then real life hits and the kids arrive and you think, oh, actually, I know, yeah, this is quite hard, yeah no one prepared you for this yeah, well, that, that, that parenting book that they gave me, that was a lie.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Just thinking, then, about having you've got a neurodiverse family, so, a bit like me, you've got a bit of a sprinkling of neurodivergence in there, but also you've got some neurotypical in there. I'm not even going to cast judgment on what where you lie on that archie, um, and where you might be on that kind of neurodiverse line, um, but how does that kind of make things different? Do you think for you as a family, what, what? What's different, uh, compared to what we call the typical family, whatever that is? Have you ever met a typical family? I haven't yet.

Speaker 2:

No no, even if it's not involving neurodiverse needs, it's just yeah. I don't see typical family.

Speaker 1:

There's always yeah, yeah there's something always somewhere isn't there, someone's got a little quirk in there or something's a little bit different, or there is no typical family. But I suppose what makes things different for you and you've kind of touched on it there, I think, and some of that is about having to go through the systems that we have to go through, and that is a huge impact. And, like you said, even though we've done the jobs that we do and we're still doing, you and I both have found ourselves within, you know, local authority systems and the hdp systems and whatever, um and I've been to tribunal as well that you'd think we would kind of be able to navigate it somehow, but even we still find it difficult. Um, so I think the thing the big thing for me is it makes it different is is having to navigate extra stuff. It's never kind of straightforward. Nothing quite fits in the box for our kids and, like you said, there's a fight almost all the time, isn't there?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the key thing for me is also being more mindful that you have another child the neurotypical, in my case the neurotypical child there and that can easily get lost sometimes that the time you consume so much by the needs of the neurodivergent child where the other child particularly, as I said, in this case she came, she's the second one, the first comes in and that's the other thing as well. You're this case she came, she's the second one, first comes in. They and that's the other thing is what you're juggling between the two of them, their relationship as well. Because my son gets so jealous and clearly I think you can see you add the system to the mix. It's like he loves this attention when he's having one-to-one, it's all about him. He's had that for like four years and then little sister came along and he's like okay, who are you sort of like? I'm the one who's like getting all the attention here. So it's, I think, that in itself, just balancing and getting the sister to understand about my son and what he's going through not fully explaining until, because obviously I have to think about her age as well and how I explain it to her, but there's things that she might look at and go. Why is he, why is my brother having this and I'm not having that? Or why can we not go to this?

Speaker 2:

I can give so many examples. As I said, with my son, with his autism and stuff, there's places that my daughter would love to go and you know, whereas my son wouldn't, would struggle with me there. Some of it could be sensory, could be the crowds. So it's, it's just the whole planning. I know we're going to come into the planet because I want to talk a little bit about planning in a minute, but it's just, yeah, just being more. I think communication is key. As I said, talking to daughter, trying to explain it the bestest way she can understand it, that you know we can't go to lego land on this day because of abcd, or we happen to change our plans, or this is happening because of that, which is tough in itself, and for me, as I said, to try and understand that she's also has her own needs and not to make her feel quite sort of separate or excluded from that.

Speaker 1:

So I feel quite a lot of guilt around that with my son. I don't know about you, but I'm not, you know I try and give myself, like we talk about, give yourself a bit of grace, but actually I have some sense of guilt in that for my older, because my it's the way around for me. My oldest one is neurotypical and that's my youngest. That's neurodivergent, um, and his neurodivergent in the support that he's needed around that has been significant at times and I still struggle with the guilt with that yeah, I think you, you would, naturally wouldn't.

Speaker 2:

You would, because you and you can see the look on their face like gosh, you know why, and and and. They won't understand and that's why some there's things that they might go, yeah, you know, but there's things that it's just hard for them to understand and you just hope one day they'll realize yeah why that you've decided that this is happening or we're not going to this place or we're going to do these things that way.

Speaker 2:

Um, and I think with the sibling, it's always. It's one of those where, as I said you, there's the sibling rivalry. So it's like, okay, why are they getting preferential treatment? That's always been there. Like, okay, why can I not have that? Why can I not stay up until nine o'clock? Why is this staying up until nine o'clock? And then, let alone if you add what we discussed in there, it complicates it even more, because that can can look a bit like you're favoring the other.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it does. Yeah, I'll be a bit softer.

Speaker 1:

That's the thing I kind of exactly, oh yeah I'll be like, but why is he getting away with it? If I did that, I would. And it's like, yeah, but and it's really really hard, yeah, and it's really hard for them. As you say, you know my son's 15 now, so I've also got the joys of teenager-y behaviors anyway, and nothing is ever fair. Um, and he finds that really hard that. You know, there are some things that I, I, you know, I can't address in the same way.

Speaker 2:

I have to come at it a different way and it might seem that I'm favoring or being more gentle, or, and that's, that's tough, that's tough as a kid yeah, yeah, and I think I don't know if your son has had it, but my daughter now she's having five sessions at school and I think we felt that, just for her to have her own space about, she can process and talk to someone like a stranger or someone at school anyway, uh, who's not part of the family about how she feels, about emotions, because some of these things can eat up and stay in them and they can internalize it.

Speaker 2:

As you know, with you know, working in the mental health field, these things can then play up and affect you as you're growing up. So, um, you know she's utilizing the thrice sessions. She doesn't have to be bringing up things every week. I think it's just an opportunity for her to have time where she can just talk about what's good, what's you know, what's going well, the things that she's maybe struggling and not really telling or being able to tell us as parents, um, because I think their voice is also important as well.

Speaker 2:

I think as much as we can try and ask and talk to them. You know I encourage us as parents to involve and you know I I do that in the evening with her, where you have like a little half an hour before she goes to sleep. It's just her.

Speaker 1:

We're reading a book and she's just opening up in 10, but yeah so, but at the same time, as I said, having someone who isn't part of the family for them to to be able to talk about anything we do something similar in our house actually with with my eldest is that every so often we we we arrange that my youngest goes somewhere else and he and I get some space and time together where it's just him and I. We just go and do our thing and whatever he wants to do, yeah, um, I wish I could do more of that, but now he's at that age as well, he's like 15. I'm like do you want to do something together?

Speaker 2:

he's like no, oh, okay yeah, I'm gonna do that with you not going out in public with you, mom oh gosh, do you mean I've got that to look forward to, then, lisa?

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah, Wait till you get the teenage years, Archie.

Speaker 2:

Oh God, They'll be pulling my hair out with this age group.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, oh dear, just thinking yeah, the fact that you're in a neurodiverse family. Has that changed how you see yourself, archie?

Speaker 2:

A lot. I remember. Yeah, just thinking of that question, I think my reactions, my responses to things, it's definitely opened up my eyes in terms of being more mindful, because before I could just be, I think it's it's stopping and just go, as we were saying before, like you're stepping into this parenting role and my expectations of how I was going to be as a dad and and all of that the the dreams, aspirations and all of this, the things that I wanted to do with my family, kids and all of that. You have to be mindful that, as I said, you have a neurodiverse young person in the mix and they respond to things differently. And I think there's things I've realized that with a neurodiverse young person, sometimes those things don't have the same effects.

Speaker 2:

You could say the naughty and I could see with my daughter the impact it would have. You can remove, like her favorite uh gadget or whatever, and it would impact on her like gosh, you know. And you could remove, like her favorite uh gadget or whatever, and it's impacting her like gosh, you know, and you could see like she's learning from it and she's like, oh my god, and I'm not going to do it again. I'm going to think before I do it again tomorrow with a neurodiverse young person. I'm not saying they get away with it, but they. Those things can be like okay, you're going to remove my tablet, okay, whatever and I'm sure you know there's other neurotypical children that you would have the same response.

Speaker 2:

But, based on my own experience, clearly, the things that you, how you parent, when you're giving sanctions, the impact that it has on a young person for example, my daughter compared to my son so that I've had to go right. Okay, I actually have to change your tactics in terms of like, be more proactive, and I've learned the productivity. So I've looked at the things and times of the day, the things children communicate these things to you, like these things that they do every day. You know. Okay, this is going to set them up and I think it's just being ahead of the game, but before I was more reactive yeah more and you know that this thing for me like morning transitions, for example it's a challenge.

Speaker 2:

I'll give you one example getting up in the morning, there's a lot of transitions. That happens from getting out of bed to getting ready to having your breakfast, to, you know, doing washing or whatever, to packing your bag. If you didn't do the night before, make sure your homework's in the bag. And if you think about young people with neurodiverse needs, particularly with autism in my case, there's a lot there and that causes a lot of anxiety and stress and the whole household is just like oh my gosh and people often think that their transitions has to be kind of from one place to another, but actually there's lots of little micro transitions.

Speaker 1:

It can be, like you say, getting from the bedroom into the bathroom, yes, you know, getting from the bathroom to my breakfast.

Speaker 2:

They are all transitions transitions and those would determine what day or what mood is going to be when he gets to school. I can tell you that. So, and I think before I had a lot of expectations of like, oh yeah, like what you said, though I think I've heard to learn that I think in real practice, you see it, whereas in my head, before I had him, you just think, as you say, getting out the house, getting to the school, that transition is the micro transitions where sometimes we can take it for granted, more planning. Often, I think part of it. I'll put my hand up, you know.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes, you know, as a parent, you get to the evening. You've done, you know, sit with them, do their homework, you've done this, you've done that. You're exhausted beyond and you don't want to be thinking OK, I need to make sure the uniforms aren't, I need to make sure that their bags are packed. Sometimes they have their school lunches. It's tiring, so I'll end up leaving it to the first thing in the morning, I'll put my hand up.

Speaker 2:

As a parent, that's sometimes not helpful because that's going to add stress to you, because you're running and you're rushing in addition to trying to get them organized. So those things I've been much more mindful of. Actually, you need to plan in advance, give more, you know, give more time to these things. I think that's one thing that sticks out more there and, as we know, when you're diverse, when you're children, that the yeah, the more you plan, the more you involve them in the planning also helps. Sometimes I'll plan things without communicating with them and I'll just say, okay, this is what we're going to do, whereas now I'm trying to be able to go sit down on a weekend where there's no pressure. Let's look at the week ahead. We're going back to school, well, starting from monday. Okay, this is going to happen.

Speaker 2:

And using visuals as well yeah visual prompts, and sometimes you can take those things for granted, but I think it's key because sometimes you end up repeating yourself rather than just signposting and just showing them. Okay, they can look on the visual um what you call them, the packs or the aids that you have in your house.

Speaker 2:

That would say okay, because sometimes, as much as you think, they do these things every day. For the last six years, in my son's case, he goes to school every day. He knows the routine, but it feels like you're teaching them. It's like the first time. It's happening every time. Yeah, you know, we wake up, we have breakfast, we brush our teeth. Do I have to be prompting you all the time? And that that's exhausting, that can cause you to feel stressed and yeah, so just be more mindful in terms of your planning and be more proactive than reactive.

Speaker 2:

Um, and just acceptance. I think acceptance is a huge one. Accepting my son is who he is, because I think I had high hopes and high aspirations. He's going to be. He loves football, he's going to be the next Ronaldo, he's going to be the next Messi and and I think sometimes, as parents and I've seen this with other parents, even in my work as well they push the children, they'll send them into these private schools and okay, I want you to go to Oxbridge. And sometimes, acceptance, just accept if he doesn't. If you want to be a youtuber, an influencer, that's the we're in 2025. It is what it is and you know, sometimes as parents yeah, we, we put too much pressure on children and certainly if your neurodiverse child, or any child for that matter, isn't inclined or that's not really their passion, they don't want to go down that route. We should understand it, just be more understanding really finding, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

I think I this goes for anybody, I think, and any child that actually it's finding what you're really good at and going with it. You know, and we're a long time working, you know, and I think you know we can end up either in these jobs and I hear stories from parents talking about you know, how did you end up in this job and like, oh, you know, my mum and dad, just they thought I'd be good at it, or they, they, they thought that's the route I should take, and they've become burnt out, or you know, whatever. And actually when you talk to them, say, well, what did you love, what did you actually want to be? And it's something completely obscure. And you're like, oh really, um, that they've had been a dream. That dream that they've left behind. And I think that's how I feel for my kids is.

Speaker 1:

I've got one that's very, very focused on what he wants to do and, funnily enough, that's my youngest. He is absolutely knows he's going to be a film director and that is it. If not, he's going to be the next Mark Kermode and he's going to be and has a very similar style to Mark Kermode as well. That's what he wants to do and he's absolutely focused on what we're going to do, knows his A-levels, how he's going to get there in the route. And then I've got another one who is a bit more like his mother, who's got 20 billion different ideas and never really sure which direction to go in, and I'm doing a lot with him around.

Speaker 1:

Well, just go with what you enjoy. Actually, what are you great at? Because there's so many things that he's great at. Let's go down that route and see what happens and really play into their strengths. And chris bonello talks a lot about that, don't you know much about chris bonello, um? But he talks about playing to your strengths. And you know, because we tend to concentrate a lot on the um deficits or you know, people can sometimes call them all those kind of the weaknesses that people might have as being dyslexic or, you know, autistic or adhd or whatever it is. But actually those people have got huge amounts of strengths and you play to them because, although it doesn't always fit in on neurotypical world, they have some amazing strengths and I'm really pro that with my kids playing to their strengths and working towards those and doing some stuff that lights you up because, as I say, we're a long time working and yeah don't be a job that you know drains the the life out of you exactly, but but I suppose we didn't have that choice, didn't we?

Speaker 2:

I think now young people have more options. You know, I remember, like us, growing up, and it felt like your pathway was ready laid for you, like you were just going down that path. Right, okay, you finish school, you go to university. Okay, you qualify, you go it. It was something that was ingrained in us and certainly some of it's a generational thing, come from our parents, like some of it, that they might be putting pressure on us. Because of them they failed to go down that path.

Speaker 2:

Some of it could be okay just because the other family or the other friend next door is going to oxford.

Speaker 2:

So we want to outdo them and send my kids to this and you tend to see that a lot and I'm saying sometimes not every child is inclined to be an oxbridge person, young person and if and I see that the impact it has on mental health, particularly my work and I've sat down with young people before, like what you said, when you've really asked them, like they're having extra lessons, that you know they're going to school, they're finishing at seven or eight o'clock, but in saturday they're having extra lessons, that they're doing this, then they're doing that and it's taking the toll on their mental health, honestly, um so.

Speaker 2:

So, like what we're saying, that I think it's just understanding and just if you see that your child isn't inclined in that way in terms of like very academic heavy, and they're very creative, they're into arts, tap into that energy, if you feel look at michael phelps and all these, you know celebs who have neurodiverse needs if they do lust and all of that, harness that talent because that can get them far and they can channel their, their. You know, you know, if it's their adhd, they can channel it into that, their creativity and there's so much more opportunity now isn't there.

Speaker 1:

I think we're still a long way from being perfect, but there is a better knowledge out there around neurodivergent needs, especially. You know, and you're hearing that talked about more and more in the workplace and within schools. Is it perfect? No way. We've got a long way to go still, but it is better than where it was and actually, even like you talk about, you know, being a youtuber, or you know the flexibility about being able to work from home, or there's so much support or there are opportunities out there now that possibly weren't there. You know, when our mum and dad were young, um, and, and you know, and the support wasn't around for that, it wasn't around for that. Um, if I could take you back, archie, if I could take you back to your younger days, what one piece of advice would you give yourself? If you could go back to yourself when you were young, maybe just starting out as a parent, or maybe just before you became a parent, if you could do your Doctor who thing and zip back.

Speaker 2:

I had to think about this one hard. I remember making some notes around this and I was like, okay, I want to try and answer it the best way I can, because there's different things I would advise myself. I would say the first thing is trust yourself.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and also this perfectionism that we started talking about when you asked me are you the perfect parent? Because that can apply in all kinds of settings, in all kinds of situations.

Speaker 2:

When you strive for perfection in your work, in as a parent, in anything that you do. That in itself can set you up for to fail, and I think having the high expectation isn't advisable isn't healthy sometimes. High expectation isn't advisable isn't healthy sometimes. Um, doing things the best way as you can and having that a bit more grace and leeway for yourself, that's what I'll probably say, um, and you're always going to get some things not right. Some things you're going to get them right, but just understanding, it's the process, it's the journey and, um, it's just believing yourself. I think.

Speaker 1:

Trust and believing yourself yeah, I think they're really important ones, aren't they? We often doubt our gut reactions.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and they're really important and and sometimes it's not all about following what other people are doing. So, as I was saying, sometimes we, we look at other parents and gosh, you know, I wish I could be that parent. Look how they're just juggling the children, like they've got five kids and I've got two, and look at me, I'm pulling my hair out. It's, it's that, but you just never know what they're struggling with. As much as you can look from the outside that they're the perfect parent. If you want to call it in, you know, but it's, yeah, it's, it's not following what?

Speaker 2:

What you read on social media and I think people portray this whole uh, you know, I'm the perfect parent. Look at my kids. You know, well behaved and we do this, we do that, that that's that's and that's putting pressure on parents, people going in to become parents for the first time. They're striving for that and I think it's the wrong message that we're trying to send. So I've followed some people's social media on tiktok, where this dad is literally describing his day, where you know he's actually being authentic and genuine. He's saying I've had the worst day ever. This has happened, this has happened to me. That's reality we don't have. You know, sometimes he's having that balance, not just hearing the positive. So, oh gosh, you know my child has done this, you know he's gone to oxford and da, da, da, da.

Speaker 1:

I think just having more of a balanced view and understanding that it's not everything is always going to be right, and being authentic and being honest, yeah, yeah, and if like, so the listeners that we've got there might be a listener out there at the moment that's having a really, really tricky time. What would be your top tip? Actually, that would help, that might help them um, I think, kindness, be kind to yourself.

Speaker 2:

I would say that, um, you know, being parenting can be hard, especially when you have children with additional needs is what we've just highlighted today. Um, but you're doing better than what you think. As much as you might think, I'm the worst parent ever, I'm not gonna get this right, but you are doing right and your children can see that you're trying your best and you have been gifted with these amazing children and that that's a unique gift in itself that you should just embrace and accept and and also try to focus on the smaller wins as well, rather than the bigger, you know that's really important, the little wins the little wins, yeah, um, and don't be afraid to ask for help yeah, not always an easy one to do.

Speaker 1:

I know I can hold my hands up for that one in chaos and then think, yeah, yeah, if I just asked for a bit of help or just said yes when someone did offer the help, I wouldn't be in this position.

Speaker 2:

But here we are do you know, I think the help thing is a key, it's a big one for me.

Speaker 2:

I remember sitting on the train the other time a few years back and, uh, I was going into London and there was this graffiti thing on the wall saying there's always help out there.

Speaker 2:

I never forget that image and it always stays with me. Where it's, that little message that makes a huge difference, where sometimes, when you're going through what you're going through and you feel like no one is, you know, going to support you, I'm the only person, I'm the worst person ever, and that could be not just parenting, but just struggling mental health, finances, anything that you're going through. It's just knowing that. And sometimes people do that, as I was saying, they start people kind of cave in, shut down. You know they, they go into this, I'm just going to cope with it, deal with it myself. But sometimes it's just, as I said, just pausing and just understanding and just reaching out, even if it's just, you know, texting a friend or whatever, just reaching out to to someone to to offload whatever you're going through and you never know that can lead to a whole different pathway where you might get support.

Speaker 2:

I know you know we talk about services, particularly with us. We're professionals. We know you know we talk about waiting lists and, uh, difficult to access. You know you refer being even accepted by the gp to refer to services like camps or mental health services and some parents don't don't bother.

Speaker 2:

And I've seen it a lot of the times when I've asked like okay, well, if you've not reached out to the gp, what's the point? They can't even get a gp appointment in the first place, so that in itself it can just cause you to shut down. You think what's the point? But I think I would say, if they can just cause you to shut down, you think what's the point? But I think I would say if they can just try not to give up and just always think that there's always help, either from professionals, family or another parent that gets it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sometimes help comes in a different form. It's not always where you expect it to, and I'm going to do a really unshameless link here as well, because one of my podcast solo episodes is all about asking for help. So if anyone does want to know a bit more about that, I've got a solo episode you can go back and have a listen to about are we easy to help because sometimes we're not that easy to help, but also kind of where you can get help from. It doesn't always look like the gp, because we know those systems aren't working as well as we need them to, and how do we pack around that? Where else can you get support from? And it's not always the answer, but it does sometimes just take a bit of pressure off and sometimes help can come from a stranger as well okay as you say it could be.

Speaker 2:

I've found myself having conversations with people on the plane or on the train.

Speaker 1:

Yeah and yeah yeah, and sometimes the internet's a place for that as well, and although we talked about downsides of the Internet, but actually sometimes on social media you do get links to people that you would never come across in your day to day real life and you make connections to groups or communities with you know online and those can be, those can be life-saving, I think at times, I know, when we were in really really tricky dark times for us as a family well, I wouldn't go into huge amounts of detail there was, there was communities out there that I was leaning into at that point um, just like you said, finding other people that got it, that understood where I was at. And you know you can have family members amazing and they'll go bend over backwards but sometimes you need somebody in that that's been there. And there's that lovely video isn't there by Brene Brown about empathy, about getting down into the hole with them. You know empathy versus sympathy, so I'll put it in the show notes if anyone's interested in it, because it's brilliant.

Speaker 1:

Um, but that always kind of hits home for me is finding other people that have been there and get it. Um, and sometimes it's not even that we need fixing, it's just you need somewhere a bit like your group that you had, you know, with your dads, somewhere you can go and just go. Do you know what? I've had a really crap day today and I did this and I shouldn't have done and I should have known better but I didn't and being able to be really real and raw about it.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and I'll keep reiterating the point I raised earlier about looking after yourself and how important and stressed enough that looking after yourself is key, certainly with any challenges that you're going through.

Speaker 2:

We're talking about parenting today, but in any situation, don't forget yourself in that, because that that's key.

Speaker 2:

Whatever situation that you want to go into, with all the things we're talking about reaching out to get support from other people, that starts with yourself you having this strength and the energy to actually even pick up the phone, to even go online to, you know, click on a podcast. It starts with you and I think don't don't feel bad for treating yourself to a coffee, going for a walk and the guilt that comes with that, which I've experienced myself, as I said before, indeed shouldn't be looked down upon and you shouldn't, you know, look yourself as, oh why am I, you know, treating myself when my kids haven't got, you know, money to take to their school trip or anything like that? So definitely we, um, we used to run. Uh, remember back in in our, when we worked together, we used to do the parenting group and we used to have a session and coping with stress, and we were emphasizing on how important it is to look after yourself as parents and being, you know, mindful of your own needs and stuff.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, yeah, and something that we're often not very good at as parents. We tend to put our needs right at the bottom. Yeah, and I think, as you say, it's, it's that really important bit and it takes a bit. It takes a bit of work that one to be able to do it, but, as you say, the importance and the the benefits are huge.

Speaker 2:

Just takes a bit of work, that one I think I know we're digressing a little bit there, but we touched on the whole single parenting aspect of it. You know, I think raising a child with neurodiverse needs or children in general, it's tough whether you're single or whether you're capable, but there's a bit of added complexity to it. Clearly, actually, we can say, when you are having to do it as a single parent, as much as you can have another partner there who can come in. But it's a whole different dimension in itself and that shouldn't be underestimated well outnumbered.

Speaker 1:

It's like whack-a-mole in my house sort one out and then the other one's going really, and there's only me and the two of them outnumbered every time. Sometimes they use that for their advantage, archie as well. They're like. They come in like there's like a dual, a dual attack. It feels like I'm like yes, whatever you want, just take it, archie. Thank you ever so much for coming on. I really appreciate you coming on for a chat. It's been lovely to one for me to catch up again because we don't see each other that often, but it's lovely to catch up. Thanks for coming on. I will put Archie's uh details in the show notes so if people want to find you, where you can find you and kind of have a bit of a search and a bit of a nose about what it is you do and all the extra bits that you do, so I'll put those in the show notes.

Speaker 2:

Um, but all that leads me to say is thank you ever so much for coming in and thank you for talking to us and it's been an absolute pleasure and I'm glad that you know we, uh, you invited me to this podcast and so it's nice to sit down and talk to you and it's nice for me as I said, as a podcast host as well to be interviewed and to be guest on someone else's podcast.

Speaker 1:

So you know, you don't have to do any editing, you just walk away now exactly, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but I I had to kind of stop myself to go. Actually, god, you're the, you know you're the guest.

Speaker 1:

Right, you're not doing the interviews but you weren't gonna start asking me questions.

Speaker 2:

I was gonna start bombarding with questions at least, but as you said, you're gonna add your description. Um, I did details on your on your uh, so people can listen to my podcast as well.

Speaker 1:

You know absolutely what's the name of your podcast.

Speaker 2:

Actually let them know uh the adhd care podcast. You can find it on all uh podcast channels. Spotify uh google and apple podcast and all of that. You can find us online as well on social media. Just search for adhdk podcast. As I said, you can find the description links uh in liz's uh podcast description after this yeah, I'll put it all in there.

Speaker 1:

I'll make sure it's all there so people can find you that's amazing thanks ever so much, archie thanks, liz thank you for listening and choosing to spend your time with me today.

Speaker 1:

If you enjoyed this episode, please do share it with a friend, who might just feel reassured to know that they aren't on their own. And if you've got a moment, a quick rating or review helps others to find the podcast too. If you want to stay in the loop with the podcast updates and all things untypical ot, just drop me an email and I'd be really happy to add you to the list. Take care and I'll see you soon.