The Power of Creativity for Parents and Kids (with Julie Bevan, Dot Kids)

In this episode I'm joined by Julie Bevan founder of DotKids where we explore creativity. 

Creativity often feels like something we leave behind in childhood.

Somewhere between school expectations, work, parenting and the pressure to be productive, many of us stop creating altogether. But creativity isn’t just about producing a perfect picture or being “good at art”. It’s about expression, regulation, confidence and wellbeing.

In this episode, I’m joined by Julie Bevan from Dot Kids, an organisation using creativity to support children’s confidence, emotional expression and wellbeing.

We talk about why creativity matters for both children and parents, how schools sometimes shift the focus from exploration to perfection, and why many adults lose their connection to creativity as they grow older.

We also explore how simple creative activities — even doodling or making marks on paper — can support mental health, self-regulation and family connection.

If you’ve ever thought “I’m not creative” or feel like you lost that part of yourself somewhere along the way, this episode might help you see creativity a little differently.

In this episode we talk about:

• Why creativity supports wellbeing for both kids and parents
• How perfection and outcomes can take the joy out of art
• The role creativity plays in emotional expression and regulation
• Why many adults stop creating as they get older
• Simple ways families can bring creativity back into everyday life
• The work Julie is doing through Dot Kids

You might even feel inspired to pick up a paintbrush, doodle on a page, or simply try something creative again.

Links and resources

DotKids
Julie Bevan – LinkedIn

www.dotkids.co.uk

Julie mentions two artists in particular during the episode they are Yayoi Kasama and Frida Kahlo

If you enjoy the podcast, don’t forget to follow or subscribe so you don’t miss future episodes.

I love to know how and what you do that's creative. Lets build a bank of ideas of creative things we can do as parents. Have fun!!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome back to the Untypical Parent Podcast. I'm your host, Liz Evans, and I have the lovely Julie Bevan with me today from Dot Kids. Welcome to the podcast, Julie.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Oh, thank you, Liz. It's lovely to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

I'm really looking forward to this conversation because art and being creative is what we're going to talk about today. And I know you've built a business out of that, and I know that that also has, as it so often does with us entrepreneurs,

Setting The Creative Agenda

SPEAKER_01 0:31

has a personal element to it as well and a lived experience to it. And I'm also a very strong believer in the creative arts and expression through those and the joy that it can bring, the healing it can bring, and the all the amazing things that art and being creative can do. But we also probably recognise as we become older and become adults that sometimes we lose that creativity side of our lives. So what I wanted to start with first, Julie, was to talk to you a bit about you and your life and where did Dot Kids come from? Why did it appear?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Okay, so um I'm the mother of two daughters, and um when they were young, when they were like three or something like that, um, there was nothing really like dot kids out there, and even now there's not that much like dot kids out there. So what we do with dot kids it's um it's very process driven. We're art and well-being, we're not about the final image and the perfection. Um, we're about self-expression, creative confidence, and creative freedom.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

And things like you find you that the kids coming out of school that they come with it. I'm really interested about that, but you about you saying it being process driven rather than outcome driven. I've I feel a bit, because I did art at school, is that it became

Process Not Perfection

SPEAKER_01 2:01

about what you produced, and it almost I got into this, it had to be perfect.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

And what is perfect, yes. I mean, who decides what perfect is? If we look at an array of artists that you know are heralded as the greatest artists, they're all so completely different. And because we're all unique, we look at them, and you know, what I like might not be what you like, might not be what my mum likes, might not be what my daughters like. So who decides what's perfect anyway? Um, and I'm very much about the enjoyment of creativity, it's really calming, and it's an amazing self-expression tool. So um I think unfortunately, at in schools, even in in primary schools, art is so squeezed out of the curriculum, and the schools have a minuscule amount of time to do art, and it's all about outcome, but not in a kind of well-being outcome, it's about the perfection. So they'll maybe teach about drawing or an artist or whatever, and every single child comes out with pretty much a similar picture, and I think we've got YouTube now, which is very good in some ways with these how-to draw and how to draw books. You know, we do it. This is step one, we draw the circle, then we do this, then we do that, and we all come out with the exact same thing. Well, what happens if we can't do that? Or what happens if we don't want to do that? And I have seen children as young as four and five looking worried at what their peers are producing, terrified to make a mark on a white piece of paper because the blank piece of paper is just terrifying them, because they're so used to this final outcome. I remember when I was looking around for at schools for my daughters, one of the things that I really noticed there was a difference in schools, and a lot of the sort of

School Pressures And Clone Art

SPEAKER_00 4:12

what was perfect offstead excellent schools were often the ones that had all the perfect drawings on the wall and they all looked identical. What I really loved was the schools that had a unique element, all the pictures were different, different styles, different abilities, everyone's included. So um that's how I wanted to approach Dot Kids, and I was looking for it for my girls. I also wanted to involve discussion, like you know, what does a particular painting make us feel? Um, what do we think the artist was trying to say? Does it matter that perhaps we look at it differently to what he was trying he or she was trying to say? Does you know giving everyone a voice and um yeah, just quite a lot of chat around creativity? So we would chat and draw and discuss, and then things come out of that, you know, conversations about oh what's secondary school gonna be like and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Um, so so yes, that's where it came from, really. I have um a background in art and creativity and um worked in education multimedia at um the British Museum for quite some time. Okay. So it's almost, I think we all find that, don't we? All our little paths in life, being a parent, being a parent to an autistic child, everything sort of came full circle and it informed Dot Kids and what it's become.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's so important because as you were talking then, I remembered uh very distinctly my son starting in uh secondary school, my eldest son, and he is very much uh he likes to know what the process is. So teach me what to do. Math's brilliant at it. Um, and I remember him getting art homework and him coming home, he was so beside himself with it, and he trying to trying to do perspective or something like that, and he had to look out the window and draw what he saw out of the window. And he was just, I don't know, and he said to me, When are they gonna teach me how to draw it? Right, yeah, yeah. And he and I feel like that, that you know, as as young kids, they there's a real expression with kids, isn't there, through when you give them paint, they don't care where it goes when they're very young, they don't care what it looks like, they're just enjoying it, they've got their hands in it and what whatever. And mum puts it up proudly on the on the um on the fridge, um, or dad. And I think you know, as they get older that kind of gets stripped away from them, like we're talking about. It has to become this, it has to look like something or be something or be a particular outcome. It can't just be because I love it and I want to do it, and it doesn't have to look like that piece of fruit that I'm meant to have drawn or completely.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

I mean, I didn't actually take GCSE art when I was at school because the teacher was just she hadn't she didn't know how to inspire us. She made it feel like just the worst thing ever. And although I loved art, I recognized that I didn't want her to be my teacher and I didn't do it, and then I did it as A-level and a degree, but I didn't do it at GCSE. And my daughters are very creative, and my youngest one, um, she's incredible at drawing, she's very creative. And she said to me the other day, like GCSE art would be the obvious one for her, but she she said, I don't, I'm a bit worried, I'm a bit scared about taking it because I've heard so many bad things from people that it it basically strips away your love of art, which is not what you should be doing.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Um I think that's been my experience because I took GCSE art, loved art, took GCSE art, and did quite well at GCSE art and then did A-level art and I failed it. And I still to this day have no idea why I failed it. It's all coursework.

The Fear Of The Blank Page

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Yeah. I don't know what I didn't do.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, I mean, yeah. But I did something different. If the teacher doesn't understand what you're trying to say, then because it yeah, it it's it's crazy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 8:34

I think I went off down the route if I was using line A prints and all that kind of stuff. Possibly somewhere along the line I didn't answer a specific question that they were looking for, but I was having a great time. Yeah, um, and I created this big piece of big material with all these prints on and exhausted, but I failed. And I as I still to this day don't know why I failed and never chased it up.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Maybe you were too advanced for your no, I'm serious. It sounds to me like you were exploring your your mediums like you would do in foundation or at degree level, you were being so experimental because that's the other thing. At A level and GCSE, they don't really want you to experiment.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

No, no, and I am renowned for doing things differently. Yeah, I kept and we'll come at it from an angle. Why why do you think art or being creative matters so much, Julie? Why is it so important to us as human beings?

SPEAKER_00 9:32

It's it's almost like the essence of of of our being, and I know that sounds dramatic.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

It doesn't to an occupational therapist.

SPEAKER_00 9:40

No. You know, and when I talk about art, I mean the arts. So I mean writing, drawing, painting, drama, singing, playing an instrument. It's it's that self-expression, and it takes us to a different place. And and I know that sounds really airy-fairy, but it's really, really true. And when you get immersed in something like that, you forget things that were worrying you, and it's almost it's just an experience that's so uh uh individual. Um I think also that's the thing, isn't it? With uh you know, with learning to play an instrument or learn learning to sing and all of that. I obviously there's a place for all of that, but also what's wrong with just belting out a song? So I mean I love to sing, I love singing in the shower. Acoustics are amazing in the bathroom, just even just drawing shapes or you know, swirls, or just the way that the paints, if you're using paint, the the colour mixing, just even that, you know, what happened? I mean it's magical, isn't it? Yeah, you mix that colour with that, but you put in a little bit less of the yellow and it turns a unique colour. Try and get it again, and you won't get it again. Yeah. So it's it's really important. I think it's really important for self-regulation, for self-expression, and it gets stripped away from us through perfection from school, maybe a rubbish teacher that didn't inspire you. Yeah, being told you're not good at it. I mean, how can anyone ever say that? Thinking, you know, like just your self-confidence, I'm not good at this, comparison to peers, yeah, but um, but also time, like as we get older, our time and capacity to create gets more and more limited. I think it often if you're if you become a parent, it starts to creep back a little bit sometimes because then you start getting out some paints and things for your child, you're like, oh, quite like doing it.

Finding Voice Through Discussion

SPEAKER_01 12:05

You like this with the kids, get off, I want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

So um, yeah, I mean it, you know, this is what I do for a living, and I'm massively passionate about it. And even I, you know, I can look back at my week and think, oh, something a bit missing there. Didn't didn't didn't get the paints out, didn't do my own little bit of creativity.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I was gonna say to you, so the part of your job is you know to be around the kids and and doing work with them, but do you still do stuff for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 12:36

I try to and it goes up and down. Yeah. Um the thing is that I get so immersed in it that you know you might not see me for days. Um when I was doing my degree and after, I used to I completely different to now, but my I was a real night owl and I would paint everything you know through the night and it would suddenly be six in the morning and I was still creating. Um but obviously once you're in the real world, working, parenting, and things like that, you just don't have that time to do it. But yeah, well what one thing we have done a lot as a family um over recent years is um we get out the paints, we we we have a lovely set of watercolour paints and um watercolour paper and we play a lot of music together. Particularly we particularly do this more in the summer. We sit out in the garden till quite late. So uh the four of us, my my my girls, my husband and me, we play music, and the three of us girls paint, and we just you know it's not necessarily we're painting anything, we might just be painting some colours, some textures and things, and we just sit there till really late just painting. Um, and it's really, really lovely. And it's strange actually because we don't do it so much in the winter. Um there's something maybe about being outside. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Um Do you know that makes me feel relaxed even thinking about it?

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Well nice thing to do. But your husband doesn't paint.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

He doesn't, and I think he's scared to. I think he's scared to and he's a musician. So creative, but in a different way. Yeah. I think it takes a lot to to drop that, you know, that worry about what will someone think. And you know, I've

Autistic Lenses And Lived Experience

SPEAKER_00 14:42

I've been with my husband for like, I don't know, 30 odd years. We know each other really, really well. I'm never gonna go, oh my word, that's awful. Um but yeah, it's strange, isn't it? I've never actually asked him why he doesn't get involved. I should ask him, shouldn't we?

SPEAKER_01 14:58

I wonder it'd be pretty interesting as well, I think. I just wonder whether there is a more tendency that women will seek out being creative, and do men maybe do it in a different way. Like like you say through music, and my partner is very much into music, and that's how he is is creative, is through that side. Um and I wonder whether it's different for men and women. I'd never thought about it.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

I think it might be.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

It's funny, isn't it? But then when you think of some of you know some of the top painters, I'm sure there are lots of women as well. Yeah. Um, but you know, some of the really if you said someone named the most famous painter you can think of, majority of them are gonna say a man.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yeah, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

It really interests me that.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

So I we talked about the fact that as kind of as parents, as we kind of or as adults, as we get older, we kind of we stop doing those creative things. And you kind of touched on it briefly, but why do you think that happens for us as adults that that drops away for us?

SPEAKER_00 16:00

I think when you get when you're an adult, and particularly when you have responsibilities, financial responsibilities, parental responsibilities or caring responsibilities, it almost feels it's a bit like self-care. You almost feel like your time needs to have an outcome that you know either makes money, you know, puts food on the table, looks after someone, you know, I'm getting from A to B with my child, or I'm doing this. But it is it's a form of self-care, isn't it? Right. If you're not, you know, if it's not your profession, it it is a form of self-care. It's giving you that 10, you know, 10 minutes, an hour to just sit down and have some time for you. It's it's like going to the gym, doing some yoga, doing some mindfulness.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Um, and I think we're so kind of conditioned to have this our time equals an outcome.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

Yeah, productivity.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yeah, productivity, yeah. Yeah. But I suppose if we look at it, reframe it as the outcome is my well-being is increased, my you know, my anxiety is reduced. Um, and also it's such a a connective, community-driven thing, or it can be, you know, if you do it with family, if you do it with friends. Um so yeah, I think it's a funny thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 17:33

I think because I often what I it's kind of like you talk to kids and they'll talk about art in their younger days, then you kind of it feels like it disappears in adulthood.

When Instruction Blocks Expression

SPEAKER_01 17:42

But then often when you hit here people are retiring, they then have gone off and they've picked up an art class or they've picked up a a crocheting class or a photography class, or because possibly they've got more time available. But sometimes there is like little things that you can do that are creative that we possibly might not even know about. You know, I try to teach myself crochet. And I do that as well. But I want I'm quite good in a long line um and just creating lines. Yeah, I can't do much more. I've tried getting like these little packs where teachers it just doesn't work for me. But actually, I find it really therapeutic just to sit and crochet lines, they don't go anywhere, I just undo them afterwards. Um, like you said, there's no product at the end for me. Um, you know, and we work as OTs very much about being and doing. Um, you know, like back in the early days when OT was started, it was about keeping people occupied, and that was done through creative stuff a lot of the time. It might have been gardening, but it might it might have been you know, we're typically known as basket weavers as OTs, but those kind of skills and and what that brought, and a lot of that was creativity. And I remember getting I was taught pottery and stuff when I was at um at college during my training to come OT. I loved it wood turning, yeah. Stuff you I never did at school.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yeah, absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

So sometimes I think I wonder whether as adults we don't know what is available for us to do, and you know, when we think about paints or about drawing, we think about getting out your sketchbook and it having to look like something, whereas actually you know can you just take something from what you've been doing with the kids, which is making marks on the paper?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Totally. I mean I have a um if I'm on waiting on a on like for a phone call, like on the on the on the line to the doctors or whatever, or if I'm chatting on I often I just doodle, I doodle, and it's and it's just constant sort of like um I'm just doing it now, but sort of just constant little things like this, or my favourite thing is to write the word hello. I love it, it's all loopy and just gorgeous, and I can write, I can do hello, hello, hello, and I'll look down and my whole sheet of paper is covered in hello.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Do you know what though? I reckon if we ask loads of people when you're concentrating, or like you said, maybe you're listening to something or you haven't concentrated, how many of you doodle?

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

I wonder if we should put that as a question on the podcast. If you doodle, let us know. Because I do the same. I've got like mine is I draw flowers. I've got a flower that I draw over and over, or the sun.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I also do do boxes. I don't know, or we can psychoanalyse me, but I do I do that kind of thing quite a bit, little boxes and squares and things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But today I'm in more of a flowy mood. Yeah. So that's really important. Possibly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

But you'll find lots of kids do that, don't they? They'll doodle as they're listening, and actually it helps us focus on things. And often you'll find I'm not giving teachers a hard time because both my parents are ex-teachers and they would shoot me. Um, but often you might find the teacher would say, Stop messing around, stop doodling, stop fiddling. But actually, that's allowing that kid to listen to what you're saying. Um, although it's you know, is it being creative? Who knows? Possibly. Um, but actually that that process of doodling is really, really important for some kids.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Are you do you know the Japanese artist, Yeahyoikusama? She does a lot of the polka dot things. No. So she's she's in her 90s, she's prolific. She she just I mean, she's been an artist since you know, late teens, I would imagine. And what she does is, and it's part, it's part of her helping her mental health. She's had a lot of mental health issues it during her life, and uh pretty much all of her art is pulled. And she does it as a methodical sort of mindfulness experience. So it's

Why The Arts Matter For Wellbeing

SPEAKER_00 22:09

it has this beautiful outcome, and her paintings sell for millions and stuff, but it's still a creative, like just a process for it. It's a creative process, you know, as much as it is for the outcome. It's all about um, you know, repetition and these little polka dots.

unknown 22:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

I'm gonna look her, I'm gonna put that as a link in the show notes for people so they can have a look. And I'm off to have a look actually. That sounds really amazing. I've never heard of her.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Okay. So when I think about then with dot kids, so what is dot kids, Julie? Why did why did that come about for you? What is it?

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Very much because it didn't exist for my girls, and I was just like, why doesn't it? And um I'm kind of I've realized in later years I am neurodivergent myself through researching for my daughter who is autistic, it's like, oh yeah, that sounds a bit like me. And um, I'm sure we've all done that. Um, anyone that's got a child who's neurodivergent suddenly realize where where it's come from. They're not start to join up, don't they? Totally, totally, and then you're one of your parents and things like that. Um and I just I came up with the idea, and I just thought I think I might have done like a little session with the girls when they were really young on my dining table, and I just booked a hole, said in six weeks' time I'm gonna do this, and it sold out immediately.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

So, what was it, what's the idea? What were you doing with your girls at home that you thought I'm gonna do this?

SPEAKER_00 23:57

So I was incorporating art history into it. So I think the first one I did was Frida Carlo, and but we talked about her life and why she did things and how she had a disability, and how she used her art to express herself, and how she came about to be an artist. So, how she came about to be an artist was she originally she wanted to be a doctor, and that was like gonna be her path. And she had a bus accident when she was about 18, and she damaged all her spine, she was lucky to not um die, and she was in bed for nine months recuperating, and as a sort of to while away the hours, her mother um got a easel made up, so she was lying down in bed and got this easel made that was above her, and she taught herself how to paint while she was in bed for those nine months, and um and then that's how her journey became. So, all of her artworks are very autobiographical, they're they're very much about you know the pain in her body from um her she had polio as well, and you know, just and about pain in her relationships and things like that, but it's also her story's also about overcoming disability and situations. So, and then I would I asked the children to create a painting, a self-portrait, um, that expressed them. So, what Frida Carlo would do is in her self-portrait, she would have pictures around her that represented the things that were important to her in her life or were challenging in her life. So she had lots of animals and things, and she had like exotic birds, and um, I think she had like a puma or something crazy. She'd have all you know and the flowers of Mexico and all of this around her, all the things that rich she really cared about. And so um, when I did this first one with my daughters, they drew all the things that were important to them around them, so it became it was it was a self-portrait, but it was also extreme self-expression, and then what that kind of then built on with the sessions that I do with the community, with schools, with charities and things. So I work with um adopted and cared for children, and um we have a lot of special educational needs and disabilities pupils. Um, so it's just a way to express themselves. Um so it's really quite beautiful, and it can create really interesting conversations while we're painting or drawing or whatever it is. Is it always group based, Julie, or do you ever kind of just see kids on their own? I have done in the past, um, but my time is squeezed somewhat. Um, so sm small intervention groups and then larger groups. Okay, and always in person or online as well? Well,

Family Rituals And Summer Painting

SPEAKER_00 27:26

I did do a lot online during COVID, um, because we also do mindfulness and mindset as well. Okay. So and it that was quite amazing doing that because obviously the world was just on its axis, and it was just very bizarre. But we would have and it would be it was beautiful for me because I would be with these children for a couple of hours a day, we'd be drawing, we'd be doing mindfulness. I had children in India and Spain and you know come into these sessions, and then the kids that I see used to see regularly anyway. Um, and the response from that was quite wonderful, you know, just parents just saying, I don't know how we would have got through this without these sessions to look forward to and how they helped um the children because it was a really scary time, particularly for children.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

So um, and you know, I think majority of the children are not recovered from it.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Still.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

It's had a big impact, isn't it? Massive, massive. So uh where are you so for if people wanting to access your what you offer, Judy, mainly it's in person?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

It is mostly in person, yeah. Um I although I am I've been saying this for a long time, but I am setting up my own podcast, which is called Your Creative Self. So talking to creatives and artists about their formative, creative inspirations and how creativity has helped their well-being. Um, and you know, just a little bit of chat. So I've recorded the first one of those, um, and uh it's just finding time for it, isn't it? But I love I love to talk about that stuff, so it it's it's not really like work, is it?

SPEAKER_01 29:29

It's just no time. No, it's my most favourite bit. I suppose what I'm really interested in is that question that you're possibly putting to other artists, is is maybe putting that to you, Julie, right now.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Has it impacted you kind of your mental health and well-being?

SPEAKER_00 29:46

So I have in the past suffered from depression, yeah, and creativity has always been one of the ways that have kind of uh got me out of the depression. Um and I mean just ev it's funny, isn't it? Because sometimes we think we're not creative, but actually you might there's you know, you're listening to certain types of music that you love that makes you feel a certain way, you know. Even if you don't play an instrument or sing, just listening to music, that's being creative, in my view, you know, watching film, going to the theatre, anything like that. Funnily enough, I can't do theatre. I can't sit still long enough. Well no, I don't like sitting still for long, but I can't I can't um I'm just really aware that there are people up there that are acting. I cannot stop thinking you're just standing there in front of me saying a script. Whereas if I watch it on film, I am totally absorbed and I believe that the person is that person, you know, that they're playing when they're on the stage. I think it's because I can see everything all around it and see people watching it, and just

Gender, Creativity, And Confidence

SPEAKER_00 31:06

I can't suspend disbelief, it's so odd. Um, I've never met anyone that's felt like that before. But the other question that I'm that I ask on the podcast, or I'm going to ask, is about what's your formative inspiration? And I've got so many of those, and a couple of them are via teachers, which I think has now informed how I've created dot kids. I want to I want all our dot kids teachers to have that impact on those children, like the important teachers that I had when I was younger. Um did you did you have a particular teacher that inspired you in any way?

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Did you I don't no, I don't think I did. In fact, I think the teachers probably sucked it the the joy out of it, if I'm completely honest. I think for me it was more of a getting lost. I would draw and doodle and I copied things a lot when I was younger. Um and then I think as I kind of got into A-level, I did a bit more creativity, but I still got very stuck on the what should it look like. But I don't know, yeah, no, the teachers didn't do it for me. I don't know why I ended up down that I think possibly it was more my neurodivergent brain being dyslexic, moving away from lots of writing, but wanted to find some form of expression in some way as well. It wasn't as logical as that, but 16, 17, 18. But that I think that's where I ended up.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Yeah, I think um I mean primary school I think was really pivotal for me. And I always think primary school is that particularly the key stage two children, they've they've I think that's such an an important period of of their school life because it really sets them up and ready for what they're going to be or how they're going to be at secondary. Um, but I I remember we had a new teacher come to the school um when I must have been in the equivalent of year four, and um he brought with so we had a hall and it had curtains, and there was like a little back bit, and we came in for assembly, and the curtains pulled away, and the new teacher was sitting there with a full drum kit playing the drums like this. Then he got out his electric guitar, and it was just like we were like, Wow, this is really cool! And then what he used to do was he used to take a group of about 15 pupils into ironically what was called the quiet room, it was used to be for um uh for reading and things and watching films and things, you know, when they used to bring out the TV with the little and he brought in a record player and he told us all to bring in a record that we really loved, and he asked us all to explain why we liked the record and what we liked about it. And I remember um this kid in our class called Barry brought in Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Relax, which at the time was banned and everything. We're junior school kids, but he had Mr. Cox is his name, he had this really great conversation. Is why do you like it? Is it because it's been banned? Is it because it's a little bit naughty? You know, what is the reasoning? And um, I think I really take a lot of that moment into

Adult Life And Lost Making Time

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Dot Kids, giving the pupils autonomy and a voice to just, you know, tell us why you feel this way, tell us why you like this. Um, and I think that really affected me and affected Dot Kids and the way that I teach I not teach, but the way I've brought my girls up as well. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Like just yeah, incredible moment. I really, really remember it well.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Yeah, yeah. And what a positive impact that had on you that you've brought that with you. Yeah. I won't say from all those years ago, but I probably am similar age to you, Jenny. That it's it was a little while ago that we were in school. Yeah, just a little while ago. But you know, that's really interesting, and I think you know, just shows, doesn't it, how having great teachers that can inspire kids um and play to their strengths is can be so important that you still remember those teachers, you know, how many years later and what a positive impact that's had on not only probably your life but also the what the things that you do now. And that was you know, a little while ago, that guy was getting it right.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Um so this isn't new stuff, it's just it's got squeezed out of the curriculum.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Because can you imagine any teacher now having the time to be able to take 15 kids into a little room and go, Oh, bring in some music, and we'll all sit down and listen to your one song and then we'll all talk about it. They just they wouldn't have time to do that now. They just wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

So, Julie, if people were interested in finding out about Dot Kids, obviously I'll put all the um the details for Dot Kids and how to contact Julie in the show notes if we can find that. We will also put the details. What was the name of the artist you talked about that does all the polka dots? Yeah, great. We're gonna put them in there as well so people can have a look at that. But whereabouts in the country are you, Julie? So if people are wanting for the face-to-face stuff with you.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

We are in Kent. Um, we do things in Kent, London, and also Sussex, but we are also constantly growing. Um we we um we do a various clubs and intervention things with charities and in schools, and um we're just finding it so popular, which is just really wonderful. Um, we we released a club recently in in a school and it sold out within two hours. And we've we've now got 24 on the waiting list, so we're doing a second club in that school um in each week. So we are actually looking for any amazing, inspiring creatives that would like to deliver dot kids. Oh, we can cut that out. We can people are listening. If yeah, we're looking for freelancers and we're also franchising. So if you wanted dot kids to be in your area wherever in the UK, and you wanted to run your own sort of beautiful heart centre creativity business, then I'd love to have a little chat. But um, my aim is to just be able to offer this to as many children as possible. So the the beauty of it is we work with the community, so there's you know family paid for sessions, but we also work with pupil premium um charities and things, so there's a lot of um paid for sessions, and we run um we have a pay it forward scheme and bursary scheme, so nice um so that you know everyone gets to experience it as best we can. So it's just really now getting more people trained up so that more and more people can't.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah, it's yeah, I'm really excited. Well, maybe in one of your ideas at some point you could do a group for parents.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Well, yeah, totally. I mean, the amount of times I'm asked for this is unbelievable, and I did used to do it, but then Dot Kids kind of just blew

Doodling As Focus And Mindfulness

SPEAKER_00 39:08

up and I sort of shelved that bit. Part of my ideas behind the podcast is that will probably start to creep in.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Yeah, oh I can't.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Yeah. So we already work with adults and a lot of intergenerational brilliant. You we find now um so many grandparents have the caring responsibility, you know, during half turns, you know, the parents are out working, so the grandparents, so the grandparents come along to the workshops and things. So um that's really lovely to have you know multi-generation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Well, what I would probably say is if there's anyone listening, when they are listening to this, is maybe if you do something really creative, it would be really great to hear what that is. Because sometimes it's about sharing it, and somebody just goes, Oh, what's that? I've never heard of that before. So it'd be really great if you are listening, just what in whatever platform that is, whether it's on Spotify or on YouTube or wherever, just to pop in what it is that you do that is your creative bit. So, like for me, it's crocheting, and I just crocheted lines. I'm happy with that, that's okay with that. Um, and I am actually, I've just gone and bought myself some more paints recently, so I'm gonna try and get back into some acrylics. Um, but starting to paint on things rather than just on pieces of paper. So that's what I'm doing at the moment. What are you doing at the moment, Jody? What have you got on your plate for creativity things at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 40:30

So I tell you one thing, it won't be crochet. I find that when I'm holding the crochet hook, I'm so I'm like really tense. And it actually does the opposite to me. You can feel my shoulders going like this, whereas flowy paints, that's where I'm That's your thing. So, and I've I've I'm really lucky to have a studio at the back of the garden. I've currently got an easel with a very, very large um canvas on, which every couple of days I go up and add a little bit more. So very much about textures at the moment and mixing of colours and inks flowing and things. So um I just love doing it. I could just keep applying, applying, applying and never actually get to any finished thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

I just think that's a very typical artist reaction though, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Not quite finished. Yeah, never finished.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Well, if people are out there listening and they have got something that they do that's created as I say, it'd be great to start creating a bit of a list and that people would could come on here afterwards and think, well, I want to do something, but I don't know what. And if we started to create a bit of a list, so if you're brave enough and you're happy enough to let us know, we would love to hear that. But all that leads me to say is Julie, thank you ever so much for coming on. It's been lovely chatting to you. Art is very close to my heart, and I think I lost my love of art and it's coming back, which I'm pleased about. Um but thank you ever so much for coming on, talking about art, being creative, kids and all about dot kids. I wish you loads and loads of luck with Dot Kids and um thank you ever so much.

Yayoi Kusama And Healing Through Repetition

SPEAKER_00 42:07

It's been great, it's got me really excited. I really I want to go up and start adding to my canvas again.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

That's a good way to end the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Thanks, Julie. Thanks.