#4 How to transform yourself over 50 with Donna Kaufman

Experiencing massive growth within oneself is hard at any age and Donna really leaned into this being over 50. Her transformation is absolutely incredible and I hope it will inspire you! 

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Transcript

Miriam Bulcher (00:00.835)
Welcome to today's episode of Empowered Over 50. I am pumped for today's episode. So Donna here with me today is a client of mine. And I thought of her pretty much right at the beginning before I even recorded the first podcast episode. And I sent her an email because she I first met her. I think that was 23. 23. Yes.

Donna (00:23.118)
23.

Miriam Bulcher (00:25.443)
I was like, the years all blend together. So I met her first in 23, and then she messaged me last year to come back and do a photo shoot. And I remember on our conversation last year, she was mentioning, know, like, I have really grown a lot and seeing her in person and seeing how different the photos were was really so incredible. And I remember we talked a lot on that second photo shoot about just like personal growth. And I thought, you know, who better to explain about bettering yourself, especially over 50.

than Donna. So Donna is here with me today. So Donna, introduce yourself and all that good stuff.

Donna (01:00.172)
Thank you. I'm Donna. am 59 years old and I'm from the Midwest. I live in Wisconsin for over 30 years. I have two beautiful grown daughters and I

And let's see, now I'm... I've gone through...

Miriam Bulcher (01:28.883)
talking.

Donna (01:34.126)
I'm nearing retirement actually. at 59 I am nearing retirement at 60 and I'm going to be transitioning and now my dog is... okay. I'm transitioning actually out of the military. will be resigning from my, or retiring from my full-time position and

Miriam Bulcher (01:49.371)
All good. It'll be edited out.

Donna (02:03.404)
looking forward to new adventures with my civilian career. I'm going to go back into healthcare. And so really excited about that journey to come. I'm not quite sure exactly what's going to happen, but I'm really excited about my new adventure.

Miriam Bulcher (02:20.401)
Yeah. my gosh, that is so exciting. let's get we, know, Donna and I were chatting before we pressed the record button. And, you know, let's talk about your journey because it is really so, so, so, beautiful from an outsider perspective to be able to see like the differences and, you know, in the two year, what was that, a year and half? Yes. Technically, since, you know, we met in your last photo shoot. So what was it?

Donna (02:26.702)
Miriam Bulcher (02:49.031)
that kind of initiated this whole like, okay, I don't recognize myself. I think that things need to change.

Donna (02:58.798)
So, oh, they initiated the change. So the first photo shoot that you took was a kind of a closure for me. had just gone through my second divorce of over 22 years. can I put my dog out?

Miriam Bulcher (03:18.791)
Yeah.

Donna (03:38.808)
quiet when it's just me when I start talking to people sometimes. So, okay, so let's talk about the first photo shoot. When I discovered you kind of through a friend and I had just gone through my second divorce and started living on my own. Both my daughters are an empty nester as well too and both two

grown daughters and I've realized that it's me. I'm off on my new adventure and so I had those pictures taken and they were wonderful and I loved them at the time. They were a really great start for me on my new journey as single and on my own and independent which I really hadn't been that way for

really over 30 some years. all of a sudden, it's an opportunity for me to find myself. I feel like I maybe just kind of lost who I was at the time and was really, I loved being a mom and growing my daughters and I love my career and everything that I've done.

but I just felt it was time for me. So I loved having those pictures taken. And then the next year, so my first year of being independent and on my own, I was a whole new journey that I really didn't expect it to be. So I had maybe...

gained a little weight over a really troubling time with the end of the divorce and COVID for me in my job was very, very demanding. So I really didn't have any time for myself at all. And so I was able to, once that was over, was able to really just focus on myself. So.

Donna (06:04.462)
see where we are.

Miriam Bulcher (06:05.885)
Yeah, no, can, know, totally fine if you're like, you know, kind of pause and things like that's all good, because that's where I'm going to come in and ask a question. So you, you know, you came to the photo shoot the first time and then, you know, you were like, okay, how did you know you talked a little bit before we started recording about the diet and exercise and the weight, because I know you just mentioned, right, like the weight gain.

So how did you know at what point that the diet and exercise was like, like there was something more that you wanted first of all, like how did you kind of recognize that like, you know, this sense of like uncertainty, I guess, like was it uncertainty? Was it something else that kind of prompted like, okay, I think I want more for me and I don't know, from life. You know what I'm saying?

Donna (06:51.15)
Mm-hmm.

Donna (06:54.734)
me see. I want more. I guess I just realized even though I had actually lost quite a bit of weight, I wasn't really at my goal weight and wasn't feeling 100 % yet. I...

had

Donna (07:23.926)
unexpectedly come on a new friendship or reconnected with a new friend at

Donna (07:36.81)
after my divorce, which was actually an amazing connection and friendship. And really we were both just finding ourselves at the time. And it made me realize that I still had some healing to do, I guess. And really to understand.

I am and where I'm at and where I really want to go and that I needed to be really happy with myself and where I was at and where I was going and I need to really do this journey on my own and be happy with myself before I really invited somebody else in again.

Donna (08:33.4)
tracking my food and tracking my diet and exercise and doing all the things that I teach people to do. it wasn't just that. was, I kind of went on this emotional journey. I found things that began to work for me. I looked at my sleep, getting more sleep.

And when people ask what I did, I always say that it's really not just one thing. It's a lot of different things. really don't, not that I drink a lot, but I really don't drink very much anymore. And mostly because I just feel so much better. I sleep so much better. I felt like it affected my sleep. And once I...

Cut that out. I I Was sleeping better I was connecting to nature I really Thrive in the outdoors and grounding myself in whether it's walking or hiking Paddle boarding which I love I live near the lake. So just the piece by the lake is amazing for me and

And I am very physically active and I started running a lot, but I wasn't really running to lose weight anymore. I think I felt that that activity for me was as much of a mental focus and release as it was just for my physical health. All my...

best ideas came when I was running to me. It helped me ground and think. So I just became very physically active. Whether it was paddle boarding, hiking, or running, I just enjoyed the time outside and the time to think.

Miriam Bulcher (10:52.337)
Yeah. So do you feel like because I know, again, before we were recording, you know, you had mentioned that, you know, a pivotal point was when you realized that the diet and exercise weren't kind of like doing what you wanted them to do, you know what I mean? Like they weren't quite serving you in the way that or at least, you know, from what I was understanding that they weren't giving you like the end all be all that you kind of like were expecting from them.

Donna (11:07.597)
Mm-hmm.

Donna (11:16.47)
No.

Miriam Bulcher (11:19.303)
So talk about that and how that played into like that next step or that next like emotional journey for you.

Donna (11:30.056)
It... how do I say that? It's... I just searched for things that I loved and things that brought me joy and peace. And so things that I hadn't been able to do or take the time for, I searched for those things to do.

I start dancing again. I'm actually taking some ballroom dances. decided I don't have to wait for somebody else to go do things that I enjoy. So that's something that brings me joy. So I'm taking some ballroom dancing again. I'm taking cooking classes because that's something that I love to do. And now I can take the time to cook what I want to cook, cook what's good for me. And even though it might be healthy too, but it can make it...

I like taking the time to do it and the peace with it and making something that's really healthy for me that tastes good too. So just really started doing things that I enjoy. At work I get to, I love to shoot baskets and so I just go and shoot baskets. So I guess I've really been just really working for finding things that I enjoy and that give me.

and fill me joy and also just reconnecting with family and friends too. So I have a lot of amazing support systems and so I did connect with them, family and friends, and they were very helpful along my journey. But it was really kind of a balance between finding peace in my alone time and

and then connecting with family and friends, my social outlets.

Miriam Bulcher (13:31.825)
Yeah. How did you, did you find it was hard giving yourself permission to seek out things that gave you joy and peace? Do you feel like that was kind of like a bump that you had to cross or do you feel like it was seamless?

Donna (13:48.076)
No, it was definitely a bump I had to cross. So it was kind of a light bulb moment. Because of all those things that I enjoy, I realized that in the past, I just, I didn't have time for, I always gave time to others or what they wanted to do. And it was always a struggle of...

giving myself that time and allowing myself to do that. And now I'm just like, no, I wanna feel that joy again and I remember it. And when I just go and dance or listen to music when I'm running, it's uplifting and empowering and reminds me of where I came and where I'm headed to.

Miriam Bulcher (14:40.403)
Yeah, that is so powerful. Do you, what would you say was the biggest?

That's not the right way to phrase that question. How would you say you got to a place that you didn't have those things? And that might be a very big open-ended question, but I feel like, because I guess, you I want to make sure that the women who are listening to this podcast, maybe they are experiencing or they want what you're saying, right? Like to be able to have that permission to go and seek things that do give them joy. So how do you recognize that you've lost those things?

Right? Like I know you had mentioned in the previous relationship, you were like, you know, I kind of didn't really recognize myself. Like if you could go back and tell yourself, right, like at some point in time in your earlier years, like, you know, Donna, don't forget, right? Like this is kind of essential to like the one life that you do have. What would you do? Do you feel like there were certain things that were like certain signs that either you ignored because you were busy or like raising children or, you know, it was the person in the relationship?

Donna (15:32.887)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (15:46.887)
Like, do you feel like there was anything that you could go back and tell yourself and be like, you know, don't get too caught up in like this or that or whatever to kind of like make sure that you don't go without, I guess.

Donna (15:52.92)
good.

Donna (15:57.58)
Yes. So I guess that's what I can... busy schedules, right? Between working and being a mom and everybody's activities. And I found myself cooking three different things for different people, for me, so that I can get back on track and never ever ever having time for myself and just being...

constantly exhausted and but it was okay. was I mean, it's not like I I don't think I realized it at the time but now I there was a light bulb moment near the near the end of my divorce and in the beginning is that I I need to

take care of myself. If I can't take care of myself, I can't take care of other people. And honestly, that's probably my own personal journey of just for some reason wanting to help people or find a way that I can help people in my different careers and in my life. And I just realized if I can't take care of myself, how can I help other people with it? And

And really it was just that light bulb moment of, yes, I'm better if I go take that walk and I take 20 minutes and I can and should say no to some things. So that's what I would tell my younger self too is like, put yourself on top of the list, right? And take care of yourself and that way you will be

better for those in your life. So I think that's probably what I would tell my 17 year old self that I didn't know them but I know now and if I would go back again that's what I would do is just make time for yourself. Find and remember those things that bring you joy. You might not be able to fit all of it in but you'll be able to fit some of it in. Take you know 20-30 minutes in the morning or 20-30 minutes at night and just

Donna (18:24.184)
breathe and take time for yourself. And we've all heard things, there's plenty of things and I do incorporate those things in my life is to start meditating and the gratitude journaling, all those things about just thinking about where you're at, where you want to be, what you're thankful for, right? And a vision for what you want in your future. And you really just need to take time to do that. Some of us

Miriam Bulcher (18:53.031)
Yeah.

Donna (18:53.762)
do better at journaling and quiet at night. And for me, it is maybe out on my paddleboard or going on a hike, but everyone just has to find that for themselves.

Miriam Bulcher (19:07.451)
Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk about that time frame between your first photo shoot and your second photo shoot, because again, it felt like I was meeting two different people. what do you feel like was the biggest thing that allowed you to really step into this like, I mean, the way I see it is like a blossom version of Donna, you know, because you just felt so much more comfortable in your physical body.

Donna (19:19.022)
No!

Donna (19:32.525)
Ha

Miriam Bulcher (19:36.187)
Right? Like you felt that you could wear different things and move your body in a different way and show up in different energy. like, how did you know when it was definitely and for those that are listening, you know, like definitely way more confident, way more like, you know, like it's totally OK if it's not perfect. You know, like, what do you feel like was the biggest thing? Or maybe it was a series of a little, you know, few things that kind of compounded over top of each other. But.

Donna (19:40.308)
Miriam Bulcher (20:04.145)
Yeah, tell us about like those little things or those big things that really moved you to that more confident, more like, I can do new things and I can dress a different way and I can give myself permission to experiment.

Donna (20:20.398)
Well, I did finally lose the weight. Once I got everything in line, my sleep, and I got myself in a really good rhythm, I stayed with it, I kept just finding that routine that really worked. Once I found that and I reached that goal, I'm like, I am not going back.

There's just no way I can do this. I am not going backwards. How did I get here? And realizing that I have the power to do the things that I always wanted to that I couldn't do before. you know, I did take a trip to Washington, a two-way...

trip in Washington and honestly I do have a lot of family and friends out there so I did meet and connect with family that I hadn't seen in years and so making those connections was wonderful but also I just hopped in the car and had a paddleboard and just went hiking on my own, paddleboarding on my own and just

breathing and thinking about where I wanted to go. was, you know, within that year of doing a transition. My full-time career now is in the military and with that, I'm coming up to my retirement date for that and I have to look at it as not an ending but a new beginning and I think that's what I'm

been trying to do is kind of alchemize everything. I have gone through some difficult times in my past. I realized that maybe I had some baggage from some previous relationships that I hadn't gotten over and had a hard time with. But I realized that

Donna (22:32.726)
I don't want to look back at those things in a negative way, but I realized that there were a lot of positive things that came from my journey, even though it had some really hard climbs and I dug my heels in and I did the best as I could, whether relationships or with my career.

just amazing things came out of it and there's so many joys with my children, relationships and careers and helping people along the way that if I had not had that pain and those troubled times, I would have not had the joys either. And so being thankful for that and being thankful for

really where I am today because of that. So I think that's probably the biggest turning point for me is, and I actually read the book, Alchemist too, because I'm like, I can just turn everything. I want to be able to look back at everything. And yes, there were some really tough times.

But there are some really, really good things that came of it that I would not have today because of it. so, like I said, with those, pictures that photo shoot and when I came to you the second time and I said I feel really different, that's what made me feel really different. And I'm so thankful that you were able to not just see that

My clothes are fitting different and better but probably seeing the confidence that I have in myself and just how happy I am to just be living with myself and in my own skin because I've just realized that the journey is all worth it and when I sent those pictures to a friend I just looked back at them and I remember when I was 17 thinking oh

Donna (24:55.534)
you know, I'll get married, I'll do this and that, and this predictable path that we all think we're gonna have. My life really did not turn out that way. I don't think anybody could have predicted what I've gone through. I'm not just saying the struggles, but honestly, a lot of accomplishments that I'm very proud of. So I just look at those pictures and think,

Yeah, I wish I could show those to my 17 year old self and think, it's not going to be easy, but it's all wholly worth it. And you're going to do okay in the end. I think that's, so I'm really thankful for you for taking those pictures because I have them hanging up in my house today. And it just reminds me of where I've come and

and that there's still a great new adventure out there for me. So I'm really appreciative that you're able to bring that out. I want other people to see that too, because don't you see in my eyes how much better I feel? So thank you.

Miriam Bulcher (25:59.218)
Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (26:05.051)
I love that so much.

Miriam Bulcher (26:13.415)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I love everything that you said there. And that really is a testament in personal growth, right? To be able to not only acknowledge that you've accomplished so much, right? Even though a lot, there's a lot of pain probably throughout that path as a lot of us do experience, but that you don't have to feel a sense of shame or guilt about it. And that you can just be like, you know what? I'm just going to be grateful.

for all the life lessons that have brought me to where I am today and that I do have the power to turn a new leaf. And what am I going to do with all these life lessons, right? And that really is like, so not only is it, you know, huge self-awareness, which is like amazing, but to be able to really, and like you said, like I really do think that being able to have a chance to breathe, especially after a relationship or through a relationship and be like, okay.

Donna (26:45.87)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (27:01.611)
there is probably a lot more that I haven't assessed. And maybe I just need to like take a minute and assess it and be like, okay, you know, geez, I do have one life. How much time do I have left in that life? And what am I going to do with it? Because, you know, I think that is the power of being in the position that you were in, right? It's like, holy moly, I do have this capacity and I have this capability. And I think that's what I love so much in that second photo shoot is that you really

I've at least to me from my perspective, you know, it was amplified like the gratitude and the capacity and like, no, I'm taking charge now. And I'm really going to make sure that every second that I have, every minute, every opportunity and every experience that I have, I'm going to take absolutely what I can from it. And then I'm going to like run with it, you know, and even if it does happen to be like a negative, well, I've been through that before. So we're just going to take it.

and bring it along with whatever, you know, and turn it into something that does serve me. And so, you know, to be able to make that pivot is massive. And also, you know, even the decision like to come back for a second photo shoot is also really like something to be proud of because a lot of women, you know, would see that as something being selfish, like, what am I going to do with photos of myself? Right. But you're seeing that being able to see yourself in a way that

Donna (28:04.77)
Thanks.

Miriam Bulcher (28:24.135)
For example, like if your daughter said that, you would be like, hell yeah, right? Like, absolutely. Like, I want to be able to see you in a confident, empowered light. And I think that is, you know, as parents, like why we do have photos of our children, right? Because we want to encapsulate who they are as a person. So how come we can't do that when we're older, right? And you really stepped into that power and we're like, no, no, I...

Donna (28:33.13)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (28:45.809)
want to have reminders of my own capacity and my own power and my own confidence. And like you said, like being able to see them on a regular basis is like, this is what I've accomplished and how incredible because we would want again, our children to do the same thing. We would want them to be proud of their accomplishments, whether that be in a visual, you know, I think that's why they, why all of us have hung up like our

you know, graduation certificates on the wall because and so it's like, what's the difference between that and actually seeing how far you have come visually? And so, yeah, I mean, I think everything that you've shared, like from seeking time from yourself and that no matter what it is, like you said, whether it's paddle boarding or journaling or whatever it might be, you know, I have another client who's like, she, you know, her mind opens up and she can get space when she showers. And it's like, you sometimes

She needs to shower more than once a day because she really just needs that, you know, she needs to be able to breathe. She needs to like let go of everything that's kind of going on. And so there is a lot to be said in being able to know and know the activity that kind of gives you a sense of peace. Because I mean, for me at least it's like sitting if I can like sit outside and like hear the birds and like, you know, feel the breeze. It's like, my gosh, right? Like I'm human, I have this life. What am I going to do with it? Right? Like.

Donna (30:06.382)
Thanks.

Miriam Bulcher (30:06.909)
you am I called to do with it? Let's talk about how the impact has been on others since you have, you know, done this work on yourself, because I know you said a little while ago how you can't help as many other people if you don't already help yourself. So how do you feel that, have you seen a difference in your work and in your impact with others since you've had this kind of transitional pivot?

Donna (30:34.762)
I in let's see a little bit I've been as I'm coming out of my career right I'm making sure that I have people behind me that are going to be successful right and that's very important and I really feel the

need to empower the teams that I'm working with and let them know that change is okay and encourage them to look for their own paths and sometimes that path might not be within my team organization and there's other opportunities for them or the opportunities for them to step up and

But I also remind them of the importance of taking time for themselves and give them that time to take care of themselves, time with their family, and realize that importance. I just see there's so much positivity in the atmosphere of our teams, and they're so much relieved with that, too.

I guess I would say even just my friends and neighbors that I see in the area, there were some of the ones that were like noticing a change in me. And I'm like, I don't know, I'm the same person you've known for 30 years, but what is it about me that I've changed? so, and how can I help them? you know, I've, you know, talked to those women and we've talked about our journeys and where they're at and where they go.

And when I look at that, my story is my story, but everybody has their own story. And they need to just take the time to look back at that and take the time to look about what they want and what gives them peace and where they want to go and allow them that. So there's my daughters and their friends and young women.

Donna (32:58.59)
here and I know that some of them you've taken their pictures too so we it's nice that we can talk about our journeys together and talk about our goals and where we want to be together. So I have noticed that in the friends that had supported me through the time and now they're we're able to help each other and so I really appreciate that. So my daughters are on.

their amazing journeys themselves and that that uplifts me to see where they're at and where they're going and that they have wonderful futures and I think that was you know another pivotal point for me too in I wanted to be a good role model for them and I want to be able to role model for them.

the importance of being strong and independent on yourself so that you can have healthy relationships because I want them to be able to have healthy relationships in their future and take care of themselves and find their own dreams.

Miriam Bulcher (34:16.198)
That's amazing. I feel like also does have an impact on the way you are on the conversations that you do have with your children, right? Because you're coming from a much more optimistic and much more positive perspective. And I feel like that does absolutely bleed into the conversations that you do have with your children because it's like, yeah, like no problem. You know what I mean? Or if they're going through a rough time, it's like, OK, you know what I mean? Like you've been on the other side of it, which is again. And I do hope that women who are not just over 50 listen to this podcast because

Donna (34:24.535)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (34:45.935)
It is, and this is why I wanted to do this, to really showcase not only the transformation that you can experience at any point in time, but also the impact that you can have on women who are not just over the age. I mean, the impact alone of, like you said, being able to have that support and talk to other women who might be going through something similar as you and might be also in this age age demographic. But also, again, in the context of like your daughters to be able to have that conversation and say like, my gosh, like, you know.

I just feel like it has such just a powerful impact that is so beautiful. And if you look at it from that context, it's like another motivational aspect to to go through that growth yourself.

Donna (35:17.987)
Yeah.

Donna (35:26.798)
Yes. I like the way you talk about positivity and just surrounding myself because that was surrounding yourself with positive things because honestly that was a huge part of my journey, whether it was just in my home and in my environment, the things I read, the things I let into my life now, I just, I try to remain positive. And I try to encourage that for my daughters too. Yes, there's a lot of things going on, but I'm...

Miriam Bulcher (35:28.71)
Absolutely.

Donna (35:56.536)
just trying to give myself peace and remind myself of the positive things that are around me and in my future.

Miriam Bulcher (36:05.233)
Yeah, and that definitely is like absolute effort because I feel like in today's society, it's very easy to just not realize all the negativity that kind of has seeped into all the different aspects of our lives. And I think that could be said for absolutely everyone, right? Especially with the accessibility of social media. It's so easy to kind of be like, you know, it's not just a newspaper anymore. Like, you know, any time you open your phone, you know, there is probably something. And so there is absolute, you know, power in everything that you're saying about that positivity and and

Donna (36:08.43)
Mm-hmm.

Donna (36:18.508)
Okay.

Donna (36:25.194)
yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (36:35.334)
It's, at least for me, it sometimes can feel like a full-time job seeking it out because it's like, I don't know, I need to be conscious of this and I need to be intentional about what is in my purview because otherwise I'll just lose it. It's so easy to just lose it and then you realize why you might be feeling sad or depressed or a little self-negative and it's like, whoa, whoa, I fell into this hole and now I have to kind of work my way out of it and change again, like either how often I'm on my phone or.

Donna (36:49.166)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (37:03.773)
you know, what I'm watching on the television or, you know, who I'm associated with. I, yeah, there is everything you're saying.

Donna (37:07.694)
Yeah, it's not dwelling on the past. A lot of negative things happen with us, but let's not dwell on that. Let's reflect on it and learn from it and move forward positively. you know, a lot of things happened. know, COVID was impactful for many of us, right? And hard in many ways, but wow, there are some really good things that happened.

through COVID too, there's really some good things and there's good things that happen throughout our whole lives. And so let's just, let's look back, but move forward positively and how can we take those lessons and move forward in a positive direction. So, yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (37:56.337)
Yeah, absolutely. Do you feel like there's anything that you've learned so far in your journey, know, especially between, you know, 23 and 24 and that time period during the photo shoots that you feel like it's important for other women who might be in a similar position, right? Like either and not necessarily, you know, whether they're, you know, finalizing a divorce, but just like in general, right? Like in that stage of maybe there is something more and they're kind of dabbling and leaning into that. Do you have anything?

Donna (38:18.446)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (38:25.041)
that you feel like we haven't discussed, that's important for them to know.

Donna (38:29.646)
Everyone's journey is different, right? So I just, for myself, I had to really reflect on, I had to know that I did everything possible in my own, whether it's a relationship or your job, if it's not going right, I really, I don't want to do things that I regret. I always want to make sure that

Yeah, I did absolutely everything in my ability to do. think, was it the serenity prayer? But then realize there's things that are in your control. But I'm in control of myself. And so if I can't change some things, then I need to know what I can change to make things better.

And I think that's, and that's different for everybody, right? So you do what you can to make things work and try to make things better. But if that's not going to happen, it's okay. Move on. Think about the positive directions that you can find for yourself and for your family, right? So I realized...

There was a point that I wasn't happy and my daughters could see it and that was probably the biggest thing when they could see it as well too. And I know he wasn't happy too when we're talking about the relationship and the marriage. And we did everything we could and...

Now I think we're all happier now. So and honestly, we're friends now. So I don't have any negative feelings right now. We're both just moving on for what's best for us.

Miriam Bulcher (40:45.947)
Awesome. I love that so, so much. Well, I value you so much and sharing your experience because I know it's one thing to be like, I've gone through it. And then it's another thing to, you know, share it with people you don't know. So I do very much appreciate that. And I feel like there is so much wisdom in everything that you've gone through. And again, to be able to see that transfer. And I think I said this, you know, at the photo shoot that I feel so honored to be able to be a part of capturing your growth and your journey. And it's just so amazing. And I'm so grateful for everything that you shared today.

Donna (40:57.88)
Mm-hmm.

Donna (41:16.482)
Thank you so much. was such a pleasure. Thank you.

Miriam Bulcher (41:19.111)
Awesome. We'll still chat. I'll just press stop.