#5 Career Courage over 50 with Shar Hermanson

In this episode of Empowered Over 50, Miriam Bulcher interviews Shar Hermanson, who shares her journey of making significant career changes after the age of 50. They discuss the challenges and opportunities that come with transitioning careers, the importance of personal branding, and the impact of self-awareness and positivity in professional growth.

https://www.miriambulcherphotography.com/empoweredover50

Chapters

00:00
Navigating Career Changes Over 50

05:41
The Impact of Personal Branding

10:08
Finding Purpose After 50

14:26
Overcoming Self-Doubt and Embracing Change

21:05
The Importance of Self-Awareness

28:12
Staying Positive in Challenging Times

32:29
The Realities of Leadership

37:45
Advice for Women Seeking Career Changes

Takeaways

• Career changes over 50 can be challenging but rewarding.
• Personal branding is essential for professional growth.
• Finding purpose after 50 can lead to impactful community work.
• Overcoming self-doubt is crucial for career advancement.
• Self-awareness helps in recognizing strengths and weaknesses.
• Staying positive during tough times can foster growth.
• Leadership roles come with unique challenges and responsibilities.
• Networking and seeking mentorship are vital for career transitions.
• It's okay to feel fear; just take action anyway.
• Embracing change can lead to unexpected opportunities.

titles

• Empowered Transitions: Career Changes After 50
• Redefining Success: Women Over 50 in Leadership
• The Power of Personal Branding at Any Age
• Overcoming Fear: Embracing Change After 50

Sound Bites

• "It's time for me to share this with others."
• "You have to be your own advocate."
• "You have to manage your manager."
• "You can see people who identify this as an opportunity."
• "It's okay to stop on things."
• "You can always job shadow somebody."
• "You just have to do it scared."
• "You don't die when you go to a job interview."
• "The only thing standing between you and your dreams is fear."

keywords career change, women over 50, personal branding, self-awareness, leadership, overcoming self-doubt, positivity, community impact, professional growth, empowerment

We are looking for women over 50 to participate in our Empowered over 50 Campaign: https://www.miriambulcherphotography.com/empoweredover50

Transcript

Miriam Bulcher (00:00.941)
Welcome to today's episode of Empowered Over 50. So we are going to get into what it's like to make some serious career changes over 50, because it is something that I feel like I've known a lot of my photography clients have gone through. And it can be challenging. It can be, you know, a little bit disconcerting. So today I have with me an amazing client of mine, Shar and Hermansen. And she has been, she's been in the studio twice and she is absolutely amazing. So Shar, introduce yourself.

Shar Hermanson (00:30.51)
Hi, I'm Char Hermanson and professionally, I'm the president and CEO of Forward Janesville. Personally, I have just the strong mission to help people like myself that were young and you're trying to figure out what to do with your career. you my dad was a farmer and my mom was a cosmetologist and I wasn't going to become a farmer or a cosmetologist. And so I had to figure something else out in my life that made sense for me. So I have this.

personal strong drive to help people like me who maybe don't want to follow in their parents' footsteps. So that makes sense to follow your parents' footsteps, but they want to go in a different direction and how do you do that? So that's kind of something that drives me personally.

Miriam Bulcher (01:14.723)
Yeah, I love that so much. tell us about your first initial, like tell us about what kind of led to us, like you coming in for a photo shoot, because I feel like there's kind of a whole story. mean, we talked just a snippet about that, you know, before we pressed record, but like, tell us your background, like what kind of led to wanting to get photos taken.

Shar Hermanson (01:36.44)
Great. So professionally, my first professional job was really in media and I took that job 27 years ago. It was here in Janesville and I worked with Bliss Communications for 22 years and I had a variety of sales roles that helped me progress and grow. And then that company sold, it changed ownership and a different company bought the company I worked for. And at that time I could choose to work for the company that purchased

the radio station I worked for or it was kind of a time of discernment and Midwest Family Madison had been talking to me for several years and I just felt that was a time for me to branch out, move to a new city, really test my ability in a place where I didn't know anybody and see if I could successfully move my career forward in a company that was very progressive and move people forward.

much more rapidly than what I had experienced here in Janesville. So in that, in that career move Midwest Family, I had really seen myself rising up to another level within that company. And I was trying to do things professionally to, you know, gain the attention of the shareholders and of the leadership of Midwest Family to demonstrate because it's competitive. They own eight companies. There are a lot of employees.

there's a lot of people who are interested in upward mobility and I wanted to do something that really said to them that I am very serious about my career, I'm very serious about moving up, I wanna do something that really sets me apart from other people in the company that are trying to do the same thing that I'm doing. So Miriam knows that I kinda messaged her and I'm like, I'm gonna do this and then I think.

23 hours later, I chickened out and I said, I'm not gonna do it. I can't do it. I'm afraid. And so then I came back to her again a couple months later and I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna do this. And so then I just had to convince myself that I could take that step forward and believe in myself. And I think that's what it took is I needed to start believing in myself and make that investment to send a message to people professionally, but.

Shar Hermanson (03:59.584)
also make a commitment to myself that yes, Shar, you're gonna work hard to move forward out of this place that you're in, which was a good place, but you wanna move forward, so let's do this. So that was my first set of images that I did with you, and it really did send a strong message, and leadership did comment like we were a branding and marketing firm.

So people would come to me and say, why did you do that? And I'd say, well, if we're a branding and marketing firm and I won't invest in branding and marketing myself, then that's a little insincere, right? If you're not gonna invest in yourself. So I just felt that it was being true to what I was trying to do with the businesses that we worked with.

Miriam Bulcher (04:49.901)
Yeah, my gosh. I remember us having that conversation about, you know, the photos and like, OK, you know, what are we doing here? mean, and it's amazing because it very much was like an encapsulation of you. mean, I know there was a plan right behind those images, but I know you were like, let's, you know, do, you know, the beauty over 52 and like, let's kind of, you know, showcase who I am and like what I'm doing and all this stuff. And so talk about what it was like, what happened like after you kind of showcased those images like.

What was the timeline like? Because I remember you messaged me, but I think it wasn't till maybe like, and I don't remember because it was a little while ago, but was it a few months? Was it like, how long was it before the impact of you kind of stepping into that energy of like, hey guys, like I'm here, you know, like I'm stepping into my power of this role that I feel like I deserve and that sort of thing. Like, what was the timeline?

Shar Hermanson (05:41.644)
It was within six months that things really started moving and changing. I believe, you know, some people in leadership in the company, they talked to me about it. They started to really see and hear what I wanted to accomplish. Like it really supported what I felt like I was doing. But sometimes when you're, you're working hard and you're not working smart, you're doing these things, right? You're doing these tasks.

but you're not doing a bigger initiative to send a big message out to people. So that for me was me working smart and saying, I wanna be out there. I have this brand that I'm putting out there. And I think what they saw or understood at that time is, she's serious about career mobility. So she's either going to move up here or maybe she would choose to move up somewhere else, right? She's really taking her career seriously.

And it was just a few months later that conversations started being more progressive with Midwest family. then things happened. Opportunities opened up and I was able to move forward and get involved in projects and do things that I had really always professionally wanted to do. I got to do some training across the group. I was able to do...

some projects that I had really wanted to become involved with. it was, I just remember kind of leaning back to you, Miriam, and going, my gosh, these things are happening now. I can't believe it, right? And this was, it was a catalyst for me to have more confidence in myself and start working smarter and not just harder.

Miriam Bulcher (07:30.529)
Yeah, absolutely. my gosh, I'm obsessed with that. Now, I know when we met the second time for the photos, which, you know, we have been conversing in between that. But I remember just being like, my gosh, like, you know, you're moving into this CEO like position, you know. And I remember just being so excited because you were like, you know, I need like kind of a different set of photos now, you know, for this role that I'm stepping into. So talk about though, because I remember

when you came in and I was doing your hair and makeup, there was, you were speaking a lot about the personal development side of things and like the energy at which you were just kind of like projecting, you know, when you were in your position that you had acquired at Midwest Family. And there was a lot of just that like mindset aspect of things. And I want you to share that because I feel like, you know, when you are making progress in your career, it's very easy to kind of be like, I'm here. Right. And then it's kind of almost like a period or end stop.

but it really felt like you had a very good idea of not only the impact that you wanted to have, but also where you wanted to go internally and how you felt at the job and the position and just what you were here to do, again, overall as impact. So talk about that internal mindset, energetic conversation that you had with yourself.

Shar Hermanson (08:45.868)
Well, I think the Women Over 50 for me gave me a really good opportunity as we progressed through that and then the magazine got released. It really gave me an opportunity to reflect on where I was at and how I was, how I had gotten to where I was and what happened in my life and the people that I engaged with that allowed me or moved me forward and

when the position at Forward Janesville came open to me, as I had said to you, I had some concerns that I didn't have a background in economic development, I didn't ever work for a Chamber of Commerce, and so I was a little bit unsure, but I knew that I had this drive and...

passion to drive change in a community that I had spent many years in, right? And for me, it allowed me to say for 50 years, people have poured energy, effort, consultation, support into me as a human to help me progress and move forward in the way I wanted to move forward. And I really felt when I turned 50,

you know, it's kind of like this vessel, right? You have this vessel and your vessel is starting to be pretty full. And I really felt when I turned 50 that that was the time to start pouring it back out, right? And looking for the work where I could not just impact my own wellbeing, but impact the wellbeing of a community of people. And the Forward Janesville opportunity really allows me to

work with a team of just amazing professionals, but work with an entire community of people who want to drive change. And I just felt so drawn to it, even though one could argue I wasn't necessarily qualified for the position. My message to the people who hired me was I will work harder than anybody else will in this position.

Shar Hermanson (11:06.578)
and that I can guarantee you. I have positivity, right? Strong positivity. I will be positive through all the things that come up and I will work really, really hard because I'm very committed to driving change. so the Women Over 50 piece for me just allowed me to get out of that kind of busy task work that you have in life to really reflect

you know, is my next? What do I really want to do? And for me, I don't think it's the path for everyone, but for me, this was the thing I needed to say yes to. Now, my daughter was like, mom, have you lost your mind? You've already taken all of these challenging roles that are a lot of work, and why are you doing this again? She's like, why don't you just apply for a job that's easy? Why don't you just go sell something?

and just take an easier route for your next idea. And I said, no, for me, it would be difficult to take that route right now. For me, even though the work is big, there's a lot of work to do in a community, this for me was easier because it's what I really wanted to do. Does that make sense?

Miriam Bulcher (12:23.467)
Yeah, like it felt more aligned. I do remember you saying that, you know, like with that Janesville tie and you having, you know what I mean? Like that, like emotional aspect to it. was like it just felt like a seamless next step in terms of like, my gosh, like I love that you mentioned that perspective of like having your cup filled and then kind of like, my gosh, it's time for me to share this with other people. So beautiful and really speaks to that.

nudge that I think that can come in from what I'm hearing from clients that are around, you know, that age of 50 that it's like, okay, well, this is, you know, like, what does this mean for me? And how do I want to take this? What kind of perspective do I want to have with the knowledge that I've acquired? You know, what I can share with other people and not only that, but the impact, right? Like impact. And I think that that's what I love so much about this campaign and this conversation is that the impact is so powerful.

with this age demographic and really anything over the age of 50 because of the knowledge, the experience and the wisdom that comes with everything that you have learned. And so I feel like it's just so beautiful. And I also feel like Forward Jane's Well is just so lucky to have you because to have that energy and that willingness to share that with other people is something that I think a lot of communities and a lot of even friends and like just smaller, you know, demographics or workplaces do not get to experience on the general. Like how many people do you meet that are like

my gosh, let me like give to like this, you know, very large entity and very large community. And it's just like incredible that you felt called in that sense to be like, no, no, it's time. Like this is my purpose is to give back. And do you feel that there was any sense of anxiety or like nervousness around being like, know, like I'm making this, you know, big change, not only from one industry to another industry.

But also like, I'm really like, it's time to kind of step almost more so like into the spotlight. You know, like what was the internal conversation that you were having with yourself around that?

Shar Hermanson (14:26.19)
Good question. So yes, I was nervous and I was anxious and a good friend of mine, I was talking to him and his wife, they're very good friends. And he said, Char, you're a salesperson and this is sales for the city of Janesville. So just keep focused on your selling a community and just focus on the things that you know how to do. And then

for the things that you don't know how to do, just do what you do now, which you bring in experts. As a salesperson, right, in the marketing world, did campaigns for Miriam. I didn't know how to do the technical aspect of that work. I never knew how to do that. I would bring someone else in and they would do that aspect of the work, right? I was more of the strategist. So I apply the same thing in this role is that I am...

effective as a strategist and I also understand where my experience or knowledge is not strong. So then I just reach out to someone else and I bring them in. That's a, it's a great lesson that I learned early in my career as a leader. because I, my first management role, I was in charge of payroll and accounting and all these things, which are not necessarily my strengths and my mentor, Sarah said,

that's easy, Shar. Don't try to get a lot better there. Just bring somebody else in to do that work for you. So, yeah, my self-doubt was in the places where I just know I'm not strong and I worried about, I'm sure these other candidates or other people will be strong. And they could have been strong in those areas. But I also felt that for my commitment and all of that, that I would have been stronger than them. So.

to your point, it's part of gaining that wisdom and gosh, I wish I could plant it in people that are 30 or 40, but maybe you just have to live it and you have to, 50 is just when you kind of figure that out and you learn to be okay with the things that you don't know you're not that good at.

Miriam Bulcher (16:37.357)
Yeah, it's almost like you have a better sense of like, well, these are my strength and this is his this is who I am and anything else. Like I'll figure it out. And I think that self trust seems to be a lot easier, like when you're older, because you're just like, OK, like, I'll find I'll figure it out. Like I always have figured it out. And like, again, so powerful to be able to have that awareness about yourself. And I feel like especially as you, you know, moved industries.

Like, I feel like that plays a bigger role as well to be able to be like, no, I'm just gonna trust my instincts, right? Like they've brought me thus far and it's going, you know, it's just like no brainer, right? Like to be able to just be like, okay, I have this map, internal map.

Shar Hermanson (17:19.522)
Well, and you have to be honest with yourself. Coming into this role, this is very different than media and marketing, but there are some things that are similar. So when you switch industries, you have to understand that it's completely different. And there are some days where it's gonna be really hard. When I switched communities from Janesville to Madison, I can remember looking at the wall a couple of days going.

What the heck am I doing? This is really difficult. And it was hard because I didn't know anybody. And that's how you work in media and marketing is through your relationships. Now I switched from one industry where I know everything. Now I'm in an industry where we're talking about brown fields and power usage for manufacturing.

This isn't something that I have a wealth of knowledge in. So yeah, there's some days where I'm just like, and the government relations piece of it, that's newer to me. So what's been really wonderful and I'm not afraid to do is that there are people in my community where I can call them and I have a list of probably five or six people and as well as other people in my industry and other communities.

And that's what people have to learn to do is develop a network, find out who's doing your job in another place and find their phone number, email them, ask them for time and continue to build those relationships because the things you're facing they did and they can help you get on your feet faster. Like one of the goals for Forward James when they brought me in is they set me up really well. They actually had someone train me for two.

full months, which is amazing. And Oakley Ryan is that person. And I just am so grateful for her patience when I came here because, you know, there were some things that I needed to learn and she, she coached me on what I needed to learn. And I think that's the other thing is be willing to ask help, get a coach and let somebody see your weaknesses. Let them see where you're not strong.

Shar Hermanson (19:29.494)
so that you can either get some assistance or develop that area. Like sometimes it's just, you have to let people see where you're not good so that you can improve or get some help. And that's hard, that's not easy. So changing jobs over 50, that's hard. It's really hard. But it doesn't mean it's not worth it. I feel nothing but gratitude for where I'm at now and what I'm learning and what I've done. And I did.

had the opportunity when I was at the radio station, there were two women I hired over 50, and I remember both of them coming to me at maybe month two or three going, my gosh, this is terrible, it's really hard. Now, they're in that career and they love it. They've been there for another 10, 12 years. They're very happy. But yeah, it's different.

Miriam Bulcher (20:21.111)
Yeah. my gosh. I love what you said about the willingness to show your weaknesses. Holy moly. I feel like that is such a big it's a big statement and it's such a big pill to swallow. I can only imagine like women that are listening who might be feeling like, you know, a little tug or pull or or just opening their perspective to change. Right. Like not only is it one thing to change, but it's another thing to be like, yeah, let's just look at all the stuff that I don't know. You know what I mean? Like

How do you, I guess, how do you get to that stage? Do you feel like you had that perspective like before you made the career change or do you feel like you were able to lean into it more with the change? And how did you get there?

Shar Hermanson (21:05.003)
You know, I haven't ever actually even thought about that until this conversation, Mary. See, you bring so much out of me. But it's both. I am very self-aware as a person. That's one of the things that people I've worked with have always complimented me on is that I'm very self-aware of what I'm good at and what I'm not good at. But it's one thing to be self-aware.

And then I think it's like that next level to show that to somebody and put it on a platter and be like, okay, here are the things. These are people you admire and respect who have had great accomplishments. And now you're like, okay, here are the things I'm not that good at. One of the things I've learned in this role because I get to work with very high functioning leaders is that they expect me to answer that question.

And it's not because they're looking to judge me. It's more out of place of like, how can we help get this work done if we know this is an area where charge is not gonna be strong. So I'm in a supportive environment right now. So I don't feel judged. And now sometimes you can be in an environment where, and I've been in those environments where you're gonna show your weaknesses and people are gonna judge you.

But I think you have to be your own advocate when you are in that space. Because I've been in that space before too. And you have to know what your story is and you have to advocate for yourself so that the story doesn't get woven away where it says, know, Shara's not that good or so-and-so might be competitively better, right? You have to understand, work hard to understand who you are and why that brings value and continue.

to remind yourself why you bring value. think that has to be it.

Miriam Bulcher (22:59.129)
So let's talk about that then. What are some things that you felt like really helped you advocate for yourself? Like whether it be personally and that kind of seeped into the professional aspect or things that you felt like really helped you professionally? Because I do feel that if you're going to apply for a CEO position, that you would absolutely have to be advocating for yourself in some aspect of like, I'm absolutely worthy. I am, I can bring so much to the table. And that does require a lot of self...

confidence and just self like motivation, you know what I mean? So what were some things that you felt like over the years really helped you take care of that identity and that self preservation in terms of your own positives?

Shar Hermanson (23:44.374)
Yeah, so you kind of touched on it is two things that I just made a decision about for me is number one is positivity. I actually wasn't, there are times in my life where I wasn't a very positive person. And it was, I think early in my career at the radio station where I just decided, okay,

I could continue in this way, but I don't see it really moving me forward in the way I need to move forward. So I just decided to start looking at things with more of a positive aspect. So now it's just a part, it's a part of my fiber of who I am. And I just try to move forward in a positive way each time. So that is, you know, it's the media I consume, it's the people that I engage with, it's what I do surround myself with is people who are willing to maybe let me know

what I'm not doing well, but also saying, yes, and this is how you could move that forward in a better way. So it's still reinforcing me as a person and helping me move forward. Another one of my mentors is Mary Jo Via. And I remember coming to her as a young professional and I didn't like what my boss was saying. I was just all upset about everything. And she just taught me this concept of you have to manage your manager, right?

teach them how to work with you and how to understand what you're saying and that's your responsibility as a professional to manage your manager. And I was like, okay. So that was an awakening for me. And then with confidence, I got my confidence. Luckily, I have a wonderful mom who tells me all the time that I'm a really...

good person and I do good things and she really instilled that confidence in me. So even if I've been doing things professionally that weren't maybe the best, I always felt really good about them and I gave that gift to both of my daughters and sometimes they're doing stuff and I'm like, what are you doing? But they're 100 % confident about what they're doing and where they're going. So they'll be fine. They'll figure it out, right? And so I do have...

Shar Hermanson (26:07.136)
a lot of gratitude for my mom giving me the gift of confidence. Because it's helped me a lot even when I've been in not the greatest situations. I'm like, this is the greatest thing on the planet. So people will say to me, well, Shar, professionally, you've always said every job you've had is the greatest job. And I'll say, yeah, because I was there to make the best of it. And it doesn't mean at that time it wasn't the greatest opportunity for me. But that doesn't mean that that's where

I was planning to stay till retirement, right? It just meant that that's where I was until I needed to move on to the next thing. I believe you can be grateful for where you are and confident in that space, but still knowing you're not quite done yet.

Miriam Bulcher (26:57.455)
Absolutely. So there's definitely a level of there's like layers there and everything that you were saying about, you know, having this kind of like inherent trust or maybe even if you're not fully aware of it, that you are going to go places and it's totally OK if it's not in this exact like, you know, company or position or whatever it might be. And then also being able to I mean, I feel like you making that decision about the positivity is a really incredible, but also in some ways like kind of challenging because

for anybody that's listening, is absolutely not a walk in the park to be a positive person. feel like especially in our society and the way it is now and all the polarization and everything, it is so difficult. how do you navigate making that decision when you know that there are people, whether it be in your work, and this is more so referring to prior career history, how do you make that decision when you know that there are certain people who...

it's probably going to irritate. there are, you know, the environment might not be conducive for positivity, like, because in some ways it's kind of like, I'm I'm a lone pillar, right? Like I'm a lone pillar in this, you know, area. How do you maintain that?

Shar Hermanson (28:12.27)
So yeah, that is a decision that I've faced a lot of times because professionally in Janesville we had the General Motors plant close in 08, right? So there were a lot of people who were very negative. were losing their, and I understand they were losing their houses, they were losing their jobs, they're losing their whole entire livelihood. So how do you remain positive when you do see a lot of things around you?

financially deteriorating. And that's happened, right? COVID, when I worked in Dane County, I was like, my gosh, what is happening? Everybody's locked in. So there's been three or four large economic conditions that have happened. And how do you remain positive when there are a lot of things that look very negative or bleak? Because...

with each change that does happen, there is always growth. You know, I kind of equate it to a forest fire. That is a tragic event for people who own homes if you're living in a forest. But if you're a little pine cone in the forest, you're waiting for that forest fire to come so that you could grow into a tree. And there are, there are always those pine cones out there that are

waiting for opportunities to grow. And you can see them as those events happen. You can kind of see people who identify this as an opportunity for them. And so I know with those events that occurred, I just kind of tried to look for the people who saw it as an opportunity and they were just like, we're just gonna keep moving forward. And even though if I in my heart didn't believe it yet, I would just kind of keep walking through it.

Right? And then as I would keep walking through it, I would start to see like, oh, okay, we're moving forward. And even if I don't believe in what we're moving forward in, I'm just gonna keep moving forward. And then I'll start to believe it. So sometimes you just have to kind of keep going even though you don't really see it or believe it yet. But let's just kind of move through this and then what comes out on the other side. I always think.

Shar Hermanson (30:34.924)
With everything that comes up, you have two choices, right? You can do this or that. And each choice can equally work out for you. It just depends where do you want to put your energy and your time? What do you want to work out? There's really not a right or a wrong. It's just where are you going to feel fulfilled? And if it's a stop, right? Like stop, we're not going to move forward anymore. That's okay too. It is okay to stop on things.

Miriam Bulcher (31:02.563)
I love what you said about moving forward, even though you might not feel or have a sense of 200 % commitment, because I think a lot of us have experienced that time period of in-betweenness. And it's OK to not feel certain a lot of the time and to just trust the process and to trust that you'll figure it out if it does go in a direction that you really don't want to be a part of or whatnot. And so that's just so beautiful because I think

You know, we often think that we have to know or we have to be certain or we have to, you know, have these very like committed emotions and it's totally not necessary, right? Like you can just kind of go with the flow and just, you know, take it one day at a time, take it one bite at a time. And like, you'll, you know, to have that like, okay, well, you know, again, self-trust, like we'll figure it out one way or another. And like, let's just, you know, kind of be open.

I want to move into what your experience has been like, and you've touched a little bit about this as we've been talking, but what your experience has been like now that you're in that leadership CEO position, what have been some of the changes that may have surprised you now that you took that jump and you were like, my gosh, I've taken this jump, I've officially switched industries. Have there been anything that have been like, my gosh, this is amazing and I haven't expected or...

even vice versa, like some terrifying things that you're like, my gosh, but you were able to navigate it.

Shar Hermanson (32:29.728)
of those things are true Miriam. There's a lot of things that are amazing and then there's some stuff that's just straight up terrifying. So my first and most terrifying experience was during the interview and the interview they said, Char, we have this old GM site, right? So the GM has left the town and the site is, there's nothing on it. What are your plans?

to rebuild that side of our community. And I breathed and I said, is that within the scope of the position? Because I had no awareness that that would be anything that I'd be working on. So then I looked to the person to my right and I said, well, we redeveloped our downtown. What did we do to redevelop the downtown?

because I'm thinking, you could use the same process. And then their response was, well, Shar, you're on the interview. I'm not. And I said, OK. So I will use my resources to figure out what to do with this site. So that was the first most terrifying. And I'm really grateful for that question, because when you're in a CEO role, you're going to get those questions that are.

big questions that people really want an answer to, but you don't have an answer. You really can't just solve their problem with a quick response. So that taught me right away to make sure, and this is just kind of part of my ethics and core values, make sure that I'm not just saying things to answer the question. And I think that's really important in the CEO role that just because you're asked a question,

you don't have to provide an answer or direction because once you do put that answer or direction out there, then I feel like I'm pretty committed to that. That is the answer. That's the direction we're going to go based on the information we have today. So if you don't have the information, just learning to kind of breathe through that question and acknowledge that you need more information and that you'll get back to people. That's really important.

Shar Hermanson (34:48.832)
Other things that come up in a community facing position, there are a lot of requests for you to attend things and to be out there. So I do love to attend things and I love to be out there. But then you have to understand how to manage your calendar and that was something that I really didn't do very well when I started in this role to talk about marketing versus this role. So in a marketing role,

You could put 25 appointments on your calendar, Miriam, because half of them are gonna cancel.

Miriam Bulcher (35:19.439)
You

Shar Hermanson (35:20.94)
So half of your people are gonna cancel on you for the week. So you really only have 10 appointments and everybody can do 10 appointments. Well, in this role, if you put 25 appointments on your calendar, five more people wanna meet with you. So now you have 30 appointments that you've committed to this week. And I still need to get a little better about calendar management so that I don't have that many appointments on the calendar. But to your question of switching roles and how to manage.

calendar in those different roles that's that's still something that I have to get better about so I'm sure someone else would have great advice for me and I'm I'm working on it is what I'd say there. Things that have been great is that being in the CEO position I have

Miriam Bulcher (36:05.211)
my god.

Shar Hermanson (36:15.714)
the opportunity to work with my team and members of the community to really vision out where we want to take this community and this organization in the future. And I really have a sense of engagement. We interviewed 50 of our business members to find out what we should do. And now we're building an action plan based on their feedback. And as we're

talking to people about our vision, we have so much buy-in because they were a part of that process. you know, in other roles where you're maybe like this piece of that, now I get to kind of visualize that out and really bring people in to help move it. So that feels pretty special to me.

Miriam Bulcher (37:04.964)
my gosh, that would be so gratifying to just know that you play a critical aspect in direction. And I feel that ties into what you mentioned about taking and applying for this role in general, because it goes back to this, no, no, I want to give back and I want to be a part of this thing that just feels like, I want to give, right? And that feels a part of my purpose. What would you recommend to women that are

wanting to make changes and they want to either just make a career change that maybe not necessarily industries but even if they do want to switch industries or maybe encourage them to look outside their industry, do you have any advice for those women?

Shar Hermanson (37:45.358)
So what I did when I applied for this role, there was actually a position at Midwest Family that I was looking at moving into that role. And so then I started to just maybe step back and kind of like when I moved from working in Rock County, Janesville to moving to Madison's like, well, I'm going to make a change. I could feel a change coming. So maybe I need to widen my vision and look what else is out there. I think

Having an extensive personal network and professional network of people that you are regularly in contact with so that you're exploring as markets change and opportunities change so that you know kind of what's going on and where things are moving. And then when people give you that advice, truly listening to it and usually, I think for me,

the thing that was right for me when I heard it from two different people, I immediately said, no way, right? Like my first response was, nope, I couldn't do that, not qualified for that. But then kind of sitting with it and saying, if I started doing this or started paying attention to this and then starting, it's just kind of when you're in that doubt phase, just start walking anyways and then,

As you start walking, it's like, okay, well now I've learned this and now I have exposure to this and just moving toward, I would just say start moving toward it. And you can always job shadow somebody. You can call people up and just say, hey, what if I came and sat with you for half a day? What would that look like?

Miriam Bulcher (39:35.821)
I love that. That is absolutely genius to really like not be afraid to ask questions. I would have never even thought about that. So that is absolutely brilliant because it really helps you navigate like the, well, is this something I am capable of? Like, is this something within my purview? Like, should I consider it, you know, depending on like the industry that they're in? Absolutely. Yeah, that's incredible advice.

What would you say to women that are maybe navigating like that? I know you just mentioned like, you know, walk with it, even though you are experiencing, you know, that kind of doubt. Is there a point or any emotional aspect around actually like taking that jump and like showing up to the interview, you know, that you can touch on that these women might be like, my gosh, you know what I mean? Like I, okay, it's one thing to submit the application, but then it's another thing to like actually.

you know, show up for the interview because it feels like you have a secondary commitment at that point, right? Like you really have to be like, okay, I'm actually going to do this and I'm actually going to step into this energy. Is there anything that you feel like would be helpful that you could tell yourself, right, from when you did show up into that interview that you find would be helpful?

Shar Hermanson (40:52.014)
Yeah, so there's a book that's called Do It Scared, you know, the 180 degree turn in 120 days. And so I actually have that sticker that Laura wrote that book and it's called Do It Scared. And I think that's the advice. You just have to do it scared. You just have to know that you're gonna completely sweat through whatever outfit you have on. So wear a couple layers because...

By the time you leave, you're going to be drenched in sweat and then just be prepared for that. I think waiting for you to get comfortable in that space, you're probably never going to get comfortable, right? And also as I've turned 50, I've tried to do things where I put myself in a comfortable position. So I have a friend who's great at climbing mountains.

She invited me over a couple glasses of wine, like, let's go climb a mountain. And I'm like, sure. Sounds good. So I said yes. I didn't know what I was saying yes to. I didn't actually prepare very well. So the day we did that activity, I was completely sore head to toe. I was not actually prepared physically to do it, but you just got it. I'm here. Let's just do it. So exposing yourself to things that are uncomfortable and just

just doing them and then you'll learn to feel that fear. For me, I identify it as fear. Feel the fear and know you don't actually die. You don't die when you climb up the mountain, usually. You don't die when you go to a job interview, right? You feel uncomfortable and you feel fearful. But knowing that the world is looking for you.

They're looking for your skills and talents and they're looking for you to step up and they want you to move forward. So the only thing that's standing between you and your dreams is your fear and doubt in yourself. you just have to accept that you have that fear and doubt and it's okay once you see it. Like I just think of it as a ball, right? And when I did climb the one mountain I wrote on a leaf that I found at the bottom of the mountain, I wrote fear.

Shar Hermanson (43:14.018)
and then I carried the fear to the top of the mountain and then I set the fear down at the top of the mountain and I let the wind blow it away. Does that mean I'm never afraid anymore? No. But I was symbolically just trying to say to yourself, like, you know you're afraid right now and that's okay. Cause you have people around you that support you. You're not gonna die. You're gonna wake up tomorrow. So for me, it's just been accepting that, yep, I'm afraid today.

doing this thing and that's okay.

Miriam Bulcher (43:46.709)
my gosh. Absolutely freaking fantastic and amazing, amazing advice. And I feel like just so impactful on, you know, a note to end on because like I just and I also love how many times that you've said, like, it's OK. You know what I mean? Like because I feel like there's just we need to say that more often to ourselves because it's like it's OK. You know what I mean? Like you have the power to decide how.

what kind of perspective you want to take on this or how emotional to get about it or how big of a deal to turn it into. And it's like to be able to kind of have that as a motto, I feel like it's just so incredible and something I, you know, and hopefully the people listening can take more on more of because I think that also allows us the space to consider, right? Moving careers, no matter what age you're at, you know, and just taking that jump, like it's okay. And there's just so many facets it can be applied to. So.

I'm so grateful for you to have shared all your wisdom and your transition here today. And yeah, I'm just so grateful for you.

Shar Hermanson (44:49.87)
Well, thank you, Miriam. hopefully, you know, I have a friend who, you know, I do a lot of these crazy, fearful things and she knows I'm terrified. But Katie will be like, you're fine, you're fine. I call her, you know, camp director Katie. She's like, just go, you're fine. So you hopefully find someone in your life who can just shake you out of it and just be like, just keep going, you're fine, you're fine. So hopefully I can give someone else that perspective so that when they're, you know, looking at that, they can just realize that.

You'll be alright.

Miriam Bulcher (45:21.037)
I love it so much. Amazing. Awesome. Okay. Well, I'm going to stop recording.