#9 Sexy Is an Inside Job: Redefining Desire After 50 w Loriann Stanislawski

In this episode of Empowered Over 50, host Miriam Bulcher speaks with Loriann Stanislawski about the journey of rediscovering one's sense of sexiness and self-identity as one ages. They discuss the impact of motherhood, divorce, and societal expectations on women's self-perception and the importance of wellness in feeling sexy. Loriann shares her personal experiences with boudoir photography as a means of empowerment and self-love, emphasizing that feeling sexy is an internal journey that requires self-acceptance and permission to embrace one's body and identity. In this conversation, Loriann Stanislawski and Miriam Bulcher discuss the journey of women over 50 in embracing their sexuality, fashion, and self-acceptance. They explore the societal expectations placed on women as they age, the importance of self-expression through fashion, and the need for women to give themselves permission to feel sexy and desirable. The discussion also touches on overcoming self-judgment, the benefits of exploring intimacy, and practical advice for women looking to reconnect with their bodies and confidence.

Here are the references for books Loriann recommended: 

 | Book Recommendations:  
 | The Body Keeps Score:  Brain, mind, and body in the healing of trauma
 | Come as You Are: The surprising new science that will transform your sex life And accompanying workbook, The Come as You Are Workbook: A practical guide to the science of sex. 
 | Dreams of Love and Fateful Encounters: The power of romantic passion
 | The Ethical Slut
 | Facing Codependence: What it is, where it comes from, how it sabotages our lives
 | Feeling & Knowing
 | The Intimacy Factor: The ground rules for overcoming the 9obstacles to truth, respect, and lasting love
 | The Mindfulness Workbook
 | The Pleasure Gap: American women and the unfinished sexual revolution
 | The Subtle Art of Not Giving A F#ck: A counterintuitive approach to living a good life

Other items:

The Wellness Wheel, The Eight Dimensions of Wellness: https://www.headspace.com/mindfulness/wellness-wheel 

The Six Dimensions of Wellness: https://nationalwellness.org/resources/six-dimensions-of-wellness/ 

Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs (for Nurses):  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK499937/figure/article-26037.image.f1/

We are looking for women over 50 to participate in our Empowered over 50 Campaign: https://www.miriambulcherphotography.com/empoweredover50

Transcript

Miriam Bulcher (00:01.131)
welcome to today's episode of Empowered Over 50. I always say this and I'm excited about each episode, but I am especially excited for today because I messaged Loryann, let's see, what, like a month, two months ago or something, whatever, it doesn't really matter. Anyways, Loryann is a past client of mine. She's gonna do her intro here in a second, but she has done some really incredible, like we've done boudoir and then we've done like just regular funsies. But Loryann, before I get into that,

Introduce yourself, tell us about you.

Loriann Stanislawski (00:33.238)
Alrighty. Hey, I'm Laurieann Stanislaski. And I guess I didn't know what I'm gonna say to introduce myself. Professionally, I work in health. I work at the state health department. I'm not working currently today. I don't know, I'm sorry. Am I messing up your intro here? And, okay. And...

Miriam Bulcher (00:55.623)
No. You're perfect.

Loriann Stanislawski (01:01.262)
Wisconsin. I three kids who are in college or working and I call myself a health educator. I also call myself a wellness advocate and I've had that title just personally for since college and yeah what else can I tell you about myself? I'm 62 years old.

Miriam Bulcher (01:26.323)
I love it.

Ooh, yes. Love that. Love that so much. And you look so good for 62. my gosh. Then again, all my clients look amazing for their age. So let's talk about because OK, so the last photo shoot that we did, was it you that asked me or did we just end up doing it like the like the kind of like more nudie like photos like was it was that planned?

Loriann Stanislawski (01:51.79)
Well, I had an older photograph that I asked if you could replicate. But also you had, I'm not sure who said what first, but then you had mentioned, you said, do you mind nudity? I'm like, no, I don't care. It's fine, whatever. You know, and yeah, so I think we both had a little bit of that idea.

Miriam Bulcher (01:56.745)
that's right, that's right.

Miriam Bulcher (02:07.403)
Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (02:16.029)
Okay, I love that. Well, for the listeners, while we did nude and Lorianne rocked it and it was like absolutely amazing. And like, of course, in addition, other Boudoir and like the inspo pictures that you had had from when you were younger, which were absolutely amazing. And so I reached out to Lorianne to talk about, know, like, it's very hard. And I want to know your personal experience with this, of course, but it's and I all my own experience is just from having children. But how do you navigate feeling sexy? And how did

Do you navigate feeling sexy? Do you feel like it was always there? Do you feel like as you got older, it got harder for you to maintain that sense of like that relationship of sexiness that you have with yourself? Do you feel like that was, was it something you had to focus on? Or do you feel like it's just kind of like been inherently there?

Loriann Stanislawski (03:04.333)
It has been there. I would say it's been inherently there. I grew up in the 60s and the 70s. So I grew up in an era and in a place where people talked openly about things. And it was outside of Chicago in a suburb, that's where I grew up. And so big city and there's...

much liberalness and I just remember seeing things as a child, know, love power and all the protests and things and you know, like even the music of the day, you know, if you can't be with the one you love, be, love the one you're with. I always thought about that as a kid. was like, let me see how that goes. But yeah, so I think I was just always a very open person.

Miriam Bulcher (03:46.923)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (03:59.808)
I was a very happy child. I'm gregarious and I want to be outgoing. I was sometimes shy, but I wanted to be outgoing. And so I feel like it was always kind of with me. And so I don't think I ever really lost it except for when having kids. had three kids at an older age. And so then, you know, just so involved in...

Miriam Bulcher (04:13.511)
Okay.

Loriann Stanislawski (04:27.82)
child's rearing and taking care of kids and then trying to work and be a mother and be a wife and be, you know, a sister and a daughter and, you know, as all many women who struggle with all the roles, you know. So I think I did like lose it for a while, sort of. And I do recall that I had two children. My youngest was nursing.

I had to go on a business trip for work in Atlanta. so I was gone for like the weekdays that week. And I had a pump and things like that because he was young enough that he was still breastfeeding and you know. But like after the conference and training that I was doing there and I had the evening to myself and there was no kid interrupting me or no noises.

And I was just like, wow, well, I can do something. I can go out, I can do something. So I went to like half price tickets and I went to see a art exhibition of Monet's art and I never really liked Monet. I don't even like Monet, but I'm like, it's just something. Let me just do this thing. And then I get there and there's the painting with.

flowers that Monet loves to do, sunflowers, right? And then the headphones on, because you would walk yourself through this exhibit. And I looked in the corner of the picture, I'm looking at him like, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then I look in the corner of the picture, I'm like, wait a minute, that's his signature. my God, that's his signature. Do you realize that this is his painting and it's his signature? And it brought me into this realization.

of what I was looking at, even though it was not something I had been interested in previously. And I just was so in the moment on this artwork and went through that whole exhibit. The next night I went to a symphony concert, okay, like by day three of this conference training that I was in, whatever it was, you know, like I was just like, I'm a human. I am a woman. I am also just a person. I am not just a mom anymore. So I think

Loriann Stanislawski (06:50.664)
It must be around that time when the kids were little and then I had the third one as well. You know, like that, I couldn't really see my own self, my own person as a person. But on that trip is when I realized I'm just, I'm a woman, I'm a human, here I am. And it felt really, really good. It was a changing experience. And I went, you know, after I went back home.

I was feeling so much better, my brain was more intact, I think. yeah, and I didn't remember having to just have a lovely time with my husband and the children. And then at that time, I am divorced at this time now, but I'm just saying during that time, it was like, realized it was just human. And so I know what that question was about sexuality or feeling sexy or whatever, you know, but I finally like felt it again, or I felt myself again. And I think that's where...

Miriam Bulcher (07:31.359)
Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (07:46.805)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (07:48.984)
we all have to go. We want to feel sexy. You're not going buy it on a shelf. You're not going to pick it up somewhere. But it's something that has to happen on the inside of us. so, and yeah, so then later I got divorced and started dating and then the pandemic came along. Like it was not easy to date during the pandemic. I was just starting to date and it's a pandemic that happens, you know, a few months later. And so that was hard for me.

Miriam Bulcher (07:50.463)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (08:18.728)
and because I had identified with my sexuality and I had had a partner and it was you know so was just a quite a bit of navigating that was going on for me at that time and that brought me to you so there you go this is like it so I feel like I've had it in me and but there were there was a time when it just maybe bottomed out a bit.

Miriam Bulcher (08:29.739)
Totally.

Miriam Bulcher (08:33.595)
Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (08:41.227)
Right, well let's talk about like how feeling sexy feels because I think that...

And again, I don't know. of course, like it definitely happens when you're in that motherhood transition, that deassociation, right? Like you lose that sense of like connection with your body. But let's talk about that as your body changes when you get older, because I feel like it does get harder. And I don't know if you've had that experience where it's like, I have to kind of like remind myself, right? Like I'm still I still deserve feeling sexy. And it's up to me to make that decision about whether I'm going to choose to feel that or not, despite what

Loriann Stanislawski (08:55.499)
definitely. Good word.

Miriam Bulcher (09:18.113)
society wants to press and, you know, imprint him whatever because it's all inaccurate anyways. So it's like, okay, what do I, how do you navigate that relationship with your body and giving yourself permission to feel sexy?

Loriann Stanislawski (09:32.494)
Yeah, that's a good question. I would say that I can speak to that experience because of my divorce. That as I got older and then I had kids at a little older age, and I got divorced at a little older age, these...

And then now it's like I have to navigate dating all over again and I have to navigate feeling good about myself and just going out and doing things and I do love to go out and I love people, you know. But it was rediscovering it for myself and because I come from this health background, a wellness background, I looked, for me, I looked at the wellness wheel. Are you familiar with the wellness wheel? know, maybe some of your...

Miriam Bulcher (10:21.099)
you

Loriann Stanislawski (10:21.324)
listeners are, you know, it is like a pie chart and it has eight pieces. And in those different aspects, like there's intellectual, career, physical, social, spiritual, existential, there's emotional, psychological.

environmental, financial. So these are, you can imagine those buckets, you know, if your listeners are gonna look it up online, just Wellness Wheel, they're gonna look slightly different, you know, different people who create those Wellness Wheels, look a little different. But it kind of touches on all the aspects of your life. And so for me, I go back to the Wellness Wheel and I think about that and I go, okay, what's not, which piece of the pie needs help, needs doing, needs something. And I, coming from a health background as well, just like...

Physical, gotta start with the physical. What's going on with you physically and physiologically, like inside your body and outside your body, okay? So not just physical meaning exercise, which of course is important, and nutrition, that you're putting that through your body. But what's going on inside, is there anything going on that needs attention? And then the next place would be to go to the emotional or psychological, you know, because when, because sex and sexuality and sexiness,

It's up here in our heads. Our body feels it and we feel it when we're walking down the street. I think you also asked the question, like, how do you feel sexy in yourself? You know, I remember when I first started dating, you know, and I was on a date and I went to the restroom and I was coming out of the restroom to walk to this person. There's hardly anybody at that restaurant. I had to walk down like a hallway.

Miriam Bulcher (11:50.517)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (12:18.232)
to get back to the front of the restaurant. And I'm on high-heeled shoes, in the dress and everything. know, that was a fancy date. And I was just like, okay, don't fall, don't fall, don't fall. You know, and I just thought, I was just like, take a breath. I took a breath and I'm like, okay, looks good, hair, okay. And I just walked down that hallway so determined, straight towards that man, that person, you know, and I just felt it, right? Like I had to get myself feeling it, okay.

Miriam Bulcher (12:29.301)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (12:48.204)
So how we are psychologically, mental health wise, how does our body feel? And, you know, I'm not tripping on my shoes or whatever, all that. So physical in your mind, I think at these places where I go to in the beginning to see where am I at and what do I need? And do we need to see a doctor or do I need to join a health club or do I need a trainer or what do I need to read some books or, you know, what do I need to shore these pieces up in my body? And then all the other things of the wellness wheel, you know,

your social aspects, they all kind of like fit in. So that's kind of where my brain goes. I'd like to tell you about a second piece though, too, that where my brain goes is to the psychologist Abraham Maslow and his hierarchy of needs for humans, human needs. And it's interesting because, you know, like I said, that some people might have a hard time thinking or talking about sexuality or sex or...

Miriam Bulcher (13:24.521)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (13:47.662)
sexiness or what can I wear or can I wear this out or should I not wear this thing or that thing or should I have cleavage or not cleavage or what you know and you know but sex just from my background growing up in the 60s and 70s and then learning about Maslow's hierarchy of needs sex is in his pyramid of needs twice okay twice one at the base level where it's physiologic it's part of our body and then a couple rungs up

It's also in the area of belongingness. So you need sexual intimacy, right? Sex, sexual intimacy. So it is a part of our life and our bodies. And so I accept that. And I feel that it's just, it is what it is. Sexual health is just health. know, mental health is just health. So I guess that's how I frame things. And so I do go back to those kinds of materials. And if I can't figure that out, I ask a couple friends, I find a book.

Miriam Bulcher (14:25.759)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (14:39.059)
Okay.

Loriann Stanislawski (14:45.928)
and I'm going to read a book on certain topics to help me get there.

Miriam Bulcher (14:49.663)
Yeah.

No, I love that. And I love that you brought up those, you know, like it does start in your brain because I think that and just from what I've, you discussed with other clients, like I think it's more so like, you know, when you're younger, it's like, there's more carefree aspects and it makes it easier to kind of focus on that those things. But then as you get older, it's like all the responsibilities and the demands and just like life and work and stuff. It's very easy to prioritize that over this sense of like joy and

and like dopamine that comes with intimacy and just sex and overall. So I love that you were saying like you do have to kind of prioritize what your belief is about it. Like, and I love that you mentioned like the wheel, the wheel of wellness and then also, you know, that pyramid because it's true. It is such an essential part of who we are. So for the women that are listening that are like, oh.

Like, do I really want, how do you give yourself permission, I guess, to dive back in? Because you know when you're younger, you're like, I have the body and I have all these things. But when you're older, you don't necessarily have those like things to kind of back up your reasoning. So how do you kind of give yourself permission to be like, no, no, it doesn't matter, right? Like, I deserve this regardless of where my body is at. And like, I also deserve to feel those things again, you know, like how do you navigate giving yourself that kind of

Enjoy.

Loriann Stanislawski (16:17.57)
Yeah, it's kind of like permission. Sometimes it's nice when someone gives you permission, somebody else. Something outside gives you permission to do a thing, even just to rest. Yes, you have permission to take a nap today or whatever, you know? But yeah, you might feel like you need permission and that doesn't need to come from outside, right? But it can come from inside. You have to create a place for it, I think, in our minds and in our bodies. Let me start looking at my body.

Miriam Bulcher (16:46.859)
Hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (16:46.89)
let me take care of my body. Let me wear the clothes that will help me to feel this way. Did you used to feel sexy in? And our bodies change over time in many different ways. Our brains change, things change. So what can you start with that you feel comfortable with, I think? And love yourself. Like I said, mental health is part of it as well.

Miriam Bulcher (17:09.419)
you

Loriann Stanislawski (17:16.47)
So the more you love your own self and accept all the body parts and all the good and bad pieces inside that were even you want to call them bad, but just all the different parts of us being human. When we can just accept those, then we, I think, can more easily give our own self permission.

Miriam Bulcher (17:29.737)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (17:36.554)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Do you?

Loriann Stanislawski (17:38.722)
you know, to wear the clothes or do whatever.

Miriam Bulcher (17:41.396)
Yeah, absolutely. Do you feel that, like, how did your divorce play into, your role of kind of, like, diving back into you? Do you feel like that may have happened beforehand? Or do you feel like that divorce was kind of pivotal in that, well, now it's me, and so therefore I am kind of responsible for me? Not that you weren't responsible before, but it's easy to get, like, you know, focused and prioritized about somebody else, especially if you're in a relationship. So how did you, like, navigate that?

Loriann Stanislawski (18:11.426)
That is a fantastic question. And I would say that I tend, am a woman, a human who tends toward codependency. Okay, so it is something that I learned about when I was young, that I read about, that I tried to, you but I felt like I was just an individual human on my own rights, you know?

But in the marriage, you're trying to have a team and you're supposed, and in family, know, hey, we want to have a team and you want to have this coupling and be interdependent with each other. but yeah, like, I feel like I lost that. think you're right that I lost that, especially after kids. And then, then the divorce really catapulted me into my ability to work on myself alone.

And tell me more about your question because I think I lost track. But okay.

Miriam Bulcher (19:10.921)
No, that's okay. Do you feel like it helped you focus more on you or do you feel like it would have been like, would you have done that? Do you think if you had maintained that relationship or do you feel like the divorce really catapulted that like self discovery, self permission, self, well, it's another nature, I guess of self love. Like, do you feel like it helped?

Loriann Stanislawski (19:35.842)
feel like it did, I feel like it was, and when I say catapult, I can also say catalyst, right? So I feel like it was a catalyst. And a catalyst is something that helps that thing along better. It makes it work better. Maybe I was working towards it, inching towards it after I had that great vacation, I'm sorry, was a work trip, work trip where I realized, my God, I'm an actual human. I'm not just a mom. But like.

Miriam Bulcher (19:40.191)
Mmm.

Miriam Bulcher (19:58.252)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (20:02.062)
I think that the divorce was definitely a catalyst because it was a really serious, devastating break. I did not see my identity without that marriage and family. And so it really made me jump into myself. like I said, while the divorce was happening a couple of years,

Miriam Bulcher (20:17.813)
Mmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (20:32.044)
And I was just focusing on the kids and me and my brain, make sure I stayed sane and all that. you know, I didn't like date or I didn't really think about every day. Like I didn't think about the sexuality part of myself really at all for a while. It was like, it was like this break for a while and that came in, the divorce happens like, okay, you know, now we can, that's done. We can move into something else and, look at myself more as a human, a woman, my woman.

abilities, my sexuality, and am I gonna date, you know, because it does relate to that. You could be a sexy person, but you all... it does... it relates to relationships as well, you know? And so, but you have to be able to handle your own body on your own. Handle it? I don't want to say it like that, but maybe enjoy yourself alone, whether it's just going out or...

Miriam Bulcher (21:15.787)
you

Loriann Stanislawski (21:30.59)
you know, just being at home. Either way, you need to enjoy yourself. Then you can maybe enjoy it with another person, enjoy something with other people. And so I feel like it really made me dive into it as well as as I mentioned, like the pandemic started just a few months later. And then it was just me at home with one or two kids, young people. And that makes I think that really

Miriam Bulcher (21:32.341)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (22:00.418)
helped me to really focus on myself and read more or listen to podcasts or other things that really helped me to grow sexually and decide and feeling sexy and then I called you. I was like, no, okay. because I saw my friend on Facebook who had come to you and she invited.

me to the group and blah blah blah you know and I'm just like listen nobody's out here you know taking pictures of me looking at me doing I have no idea right I'm just a single person out here I want to do this for myself I wanted to do it for me when I came to see you for the photos and

Miriam Bulcher (22:52.093)
Mm-hmm. Do you feel like that first photo shoot, do you think you would have done the second one before you had done the first one? Or do you feel like the first one, you probably would have, okay.

Loriann Stanislawski (22:59.982)
Probably would have. Yeah, I could have, yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (23:04.605)
Okay, but do you think you would have given yourself permission in terms of the investment in yourself though? Do you feel like you would have seen it the same?

Loriann Stanislawski (23:17.986)
Yeah, I might not have seen it the same. You might be right, you know.

Miriam Bulcher (23:21.257)
Okay, so I was just curious because I think it's one thing to, and this is why I feel like the campaign itself, is such a visual thing as much as is a self-empowerment because to be able to say, am I worthy of seeing myself as a person, right, just in general, whatever it might be, normal clothes, what not, but then it's another thing to say, but am I worthy of seeing myself as sexy?

Loriann Stanislawski (23:46.796)
Right, yeah. And so I think it was a great inroad. think I would have done it maybe also.

Miriam Bulcher (23:48.883)
Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (23:57.098)
Right? Like it's always hard to say, which is, Right.

Loriann Stanislawski (23:57.854)
It really was! Yeah, it was so empowering and so fun to work with you and be there and do the photoshoot and then... yeah. And whatever I saw on your advertisement or on your Facebook page or, you know, somewhere, and then I was just like, I gotta go to the next step. I gotta go for more.

Miriam Bulcher (24:03.453)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (24:13.545)
Yeah, yep.

Miriam Bulcher (24:19.262)
Yeah.

that next level. Do you feel that being in that setting of like showing your body more? Do you feel that in that second photo shoot where we did the nudes and we did more of like the to our focused stuff? Do you feel like that helped? And I mean, I think you already you were there ahead of time. But I'm just curious, like, what goes through your mind when you are kind of like, burying yourself and that is a vulnerable thing, right? Doing it for the camera and doing it for somebody else. I feel like they're very they can be along the same plane depending on who it is that you're showcasing that to. So

So do you feel that it did anything for you internally, being able to be like, no, I'm taking a stand and I'm willing to see myself and invest in myself in this way?

Loriann Stanislawski (25:01.128)
Yeah, think I had to come to the mindset that I'm doing this for me.

because I'm doing it for myself. And there was no one for me to like, maybe give the photos to or show that like, I didn't really have, you know what I mean? Like I really was doing it for my own self. And when I came to that idea, I yeah, I'm gonna, I didn't wanna do this thing. And it's just enjoyable. And it puts me on just, you it puts you on a high for that day, certainly.

But, you know, I still have the photos, whether electronically or hard copy, and I look at them sometimes, I'm like, this was so fun. That was great. I like this. look at this. Remember this pose? So yeah, I did do it for me, you know.

Miriam Bulcher (25:56.694)
Yeah.

I love that. Okay, so let's go into the self-confidence aspect of things because I feel like feeling sexy does play a massive role into self-confidence and in just that sense of like empowerment and that is something that can be very tricky as you get older, right? Just like maintaining your confidence and maintaining your sense of, and I've heard from a lot of women, right? Like, oh, I felt a sense of freedom and it's one thing to feel freedom once you reach a certain age, but I feel like it's another thing to be like, okay, but do I also feel confident in who I

and who I show up as, right, like in the world, and am I also willing to feel confidence in my own physical body as it changes and as it goes through these tricky, you know, like things that happen when you age? So how do you feel like that played a role in just your overall sense of confidence, like the feeling sexy part?

Loriann Stanislawski (26:48.654)
Yeah, that's a good question. I would say that I was feeling fairly okay with my body, my things, and you know.

And just being a gregarious or just a really open kind of person, I think that helped me. if people need to, I don't know, if people need to like do something, if you have to, like I had that mindset change early on, and then I think maybe lots of small mindset changes as I continued.

Miriam Bulcher (27:11.104)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (27:30.778)
And I think, you know, just working on yourself gets you there.

Miriam Bulcher (27:35.467)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (27:37.454)
I don't know, I have a little bit of hard time answering your question. And so could you say it again? Could you repeat or say it in different way?

Miriam Bulcher (27:41.621)
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. How do you feel that second is played a role in your self confidence?

Loriann Stanislawski (27:49.084)
it played a big role. I would say it plays a big role, especially again, being single and, you know, just feeling sexy, feeling comfortable with my body, feeling comfortable with the clothing that I choose, feeling comfortable with whatever amount of hair or makeup I have. You know, I think those pieces.

are essential to moving towards feeling and accepting yourself. Because if you see yourself as beautiful, you are going to be beautiful. You feel it, it's inside of you. That's where it comes from, that beautifulness and that sexiness and your ability to just...

Miriam Bulcher (28:25.803)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (28:42.798)
Let other people see you and see yourself in a similar way. I think it's open heart.

Miriam Bulcher (28:45.355)
Mm.

Do you?

Yeah, absolutely. That makes me think of something else because do you feel that giving yourself permission to be sexy had a lot to do with just a willingness to be seen?

Loriann Stanislawski (29:02.828)
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so giving myself permission to be the individual human that I am, right, regardless of am I married? I my mother? I, you know, whatnot? And having that time during the pandemic to think about it. You know, I did work a lot. But, you know, as you know, we were all from home.

And so, you know, there was a lot of downtime, but I was not having to cater to lots of other people's needs. I was able to just cater to myself and, and find those places that need a little work or showing up or whatever. And then, you know, as women, we see our bodies change over time with, you know, especially with menopause and at

Miriam Bulcher (29:41.929)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (30:00.182)
my age now at 62, I would say like 60 is some kind of little marker, and maybe I think other women have said it too, where then you can accept yourself even more. Some people say, I don't care what other people think, right? They say, I used to care more about what people think, but now after 60, they're like, what do I care? So it might be worded in different ways, but I think it's an exception of ourselves as well.

Miriam Bulcher (30:10.111)
Mm.

Miriam Bulcher (30:29.717)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (30:29.804)
So it kind of comes with that age or maturity as well as after menopause. And now you're not childbearing, but you have a lot to offer the world. And there's a reason why women live longer than men, you know, a biological evolutionary reason why we live longer. We have still so much to give. We have lots to give. are awesome human beings. So.

Miriam Bulcher (30:51.721)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (31:00.117)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (31:00.15)
I like I went off track.

Miriam Bulcher (31:01.661)
No, that's perfect. I love it. It's always I always say this is why people don't if they haven't figured this out already. I'm very off the cuff. So it's like, whatever, whatever comes out, meant to be. That's how I think of it. But let's talk about like the sense of dress, though, because I feel I remember that was one very distinct thing. Like when you brought in for your first photo shoot, I was like, my gosh, these clothes are like amazing, you know, but it's because I mean, that's one of the reasons I developed the campaign in the first place, because I wanted

other women to see that you can still be sexy over 50 and you can still dress in a way that might not be what other people expect, which you just mentioned it, right? Like you care less about what people think, but I still feel like there's this very societal like, well, as you get older, you're supposed to be like more mature. I'm like, you know what I mean? Like all this like very traditional, like societal expectations that kind of like, don't, you don't, they're there. You might not think about them, but the kind of like have a place in your head. So like, how do you give yourself? And I mean, I don't know.

Loriann Stanislawski (31:43.97)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (32:01.541)
again, because I didn't know you prior to being 50, but like how do you navigate giving yourself permission to dress in a sexy way? Because you know it feels good, you know it makes you feel good, you know it helps like rehabilitate your relationship with your body, right? The parts that you do want to love quite a bit. So like how do you say to yourself like...

Okay, I'm really not gonna care what people think and I'm just gonna wear what makes me feel good. And in addition to that, I may also be choosing to wear things that other people might perceive as being sexy, but I just really wanna wear them because they make me feel good. mean, like that's, I feel like that might be a huge mountain for some people because it's like, well, but I'm a certain age. So like, maybe that's not socially acceptable. You know what I'm saying?

Loriann Stanislawski (32:45.516)
Yep, yep, I do hear you. I think that I enjoy some fashionable things. do, so I think that's always been something I just enjoy. Different types of dress and whatnot. I do enjoy when something like just.

fits you just really you put that pair of jeans on or you put that dress on it's like you know you just like fit you just pour right into it there's certain things you know that just make you feel like that like wow like in the dressing room this is great i'm gonna get this i don't know where i'm wearing this thing i have no idea where i'm doing what i'm going with this thing but i'm gonna get this so i i feel like i just yeah i just gave in and i just gave myself permission and i just

I guess I don't think too much about like proper dress at people's different ages or whatnot. I think there's a certain, do have, I am a boomer, so you know, like we do have some things about what you're supposed to wear at certain things or certain times or you know what I mean? Like, but I think that just finding those colors that make you feel good, finding something that

fits your shape and you know refusing to get things that make you unhappy or that don't make you happy right. I and again I can go back to like young having young children right and I had lots and lots of t-shirts a lot of t-shirts. I the t-shirts and then like I went here I went there I love these you know like but you know what that's not working for me.

Miriam Bulcher (34:14.037)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (34:34.51)
Like that does not a woman's shape, right? So a big unisex tee is not something that works for me. I have a larger breasts and then I just end up look like I have I'm wearing a tent because it just hangs off, right? And it was, there was some moment at some, whatever I went on vacation or somewhere, right? Went somewhere and I was like, I love that t-shirt. And then I'm like, I am not buying anybody's t-shirt.

of any sort unless it's a woman-shaped t-shirt, right? Like, whether I enjoy this band or artist or the place I visited, you know, I just like, no, no more. I'm not doing it. I'm just going to wear things that fit me and fit my womanly body. And then, of course, as you know, in our society, it's hard to find things like that sometimes if they're just t-shirt sellers, right?

Miriam Bulcher (35:08.117)
Really?

Miriam Bulcher (35:19.083)
Thank

Miriam Bulcher (35:22.837)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (35:34.348)
because then they don't have as much practice in making women's t-shirts as they do men's t-shirts. And then, you know, I could get a double extra large and it fits perfectly on one place, get something else and it's just a larger or medium and it fits also like, or it doesn't exactly fit. Like, it's really hard to fit women's bodies. There's not enough people out there doing more research or at least having more variety. But of course it's probably costly for

sell those things. But yeah, that was, I remember that one point where I just decided no, no more men's t-shirts.

Miriam Bulcher (36:09.291)
Hmm. So it's like it's another level of embracing your femininity. You know what I mean? It's like...

Loriann Stanislawski (36:15.581)
yeah, it was. Mm-hmm. 5%.

Miriam Bulcher (36:17.577)
Which I feel like it's harder when you're younger because it's like you get the wrong kind of attention. Like you're not looking for that kind of attention. So it's almost like you're like, well, I actually can give myself permission because you don't care anymore, right? Like what people are thinking. So what the heck? I can wear what I want to wear and I can actually wear for my shape and my body type. And I don't have to worry about those repercussions.

Loriann Stanislawski (36:41.75)
Right. And there are times that people will look down their nose at you or look sideways or say something about what you're wearing. I mean, I could tell you my earliest experience with that means maybe I was like somewhere between 12 or 15 years old and it was a newer style that came out and I wore this shirt and these shorts and whatever shoes I had. I don't know. You know, and I was just like,

This is so in style. I'm sorry. I'm gonna have so much fun with this. I'm going to a graduation party like it was for, you know, or something where I knew young people, you know, and somebody, some friend of friend or whatever, I heard him say to someone I knew and he said, who's that guy? And they meant me because of the what? Cause I was wearing a pair of athletic shorts and a t-shirt.

And they were, yeah, I look, weren't looking. And I remember going.

like that. I didn't like that at all. And this is just what I want to wear and I think it's really cool, you know, and turns out a couple years later, people, more people were wearing, more women or girls were wearing this kind of shorts and shirt. And so I had a little bit of a tomboyish in me as well as girly. I like both ends of the spectrum. And yeah, it was, it was really upsetting to me that I still remember today, as you can see.

Miriam Bulcher (38:15.851)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (38:16.11)
And so I remember thinking, no, I'm just going to wear the thing I want to wear. I'm just going to have to fight that instinct in me to like, oh, no, I can't wear that where I go here. Oh, can I wear this here? Can I wear this there? I have to not do that because I just want to wear it for me because I like it. And when I started in the working world, you know, and I wore more professional or conservative clothing, you know, and because that's what I had, or, you know, I had that available to me.

Miriam Bulcher (38:33.578)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (38:44.958)
My mom had worked in an office and she gave me some of her clothing, handed me down, just such, you know, like was, so I wore professional clothes. They're like, why are you so dressed up? You had a meeting today or something? And I would be like, no, because here I am at the workplace. This is what I'm wearing. But I did feel like annoyed or insulted by those things often when I wore something that people thought, why are you wearing that thing? Why are you looking like that?

Miriam Bulcher (39:13.739)
Thank

Loriann Stanislawski (39:14.338)
You know, if I fast forward to interacting with my young children or young adult children or teenage kids, there are, three of my kids are Gen Zers, you know, and my oldest daughter especially is just, you know, you know.

no body shaming mom, right? Like she taught me these kind of things, these words that I learned in the last decade or so, right? you just, know, don't you think about it? Like this is what, if that's what someone wants to do, that's what they want to do. And I felt like that, but there was not a lot, I think nowadays there's more verbiage and freedom, you know, for the young people. So if, if, if your listeners are someone who's my age or whatnot and

Hey, talk to some young adults. Right? Like, my children helped me to see certain things. And even though I feel like I was very open already and I just wanted to do things my way, but maybe I've kind of like, I'm just doing this anyway. And I just trudged right through it. But I didn't say to myself, you have a right to wear what you want and look the way you want. And no one should be body shaming me or clothes shaming me or slut shaming or any of that stuff. Right? So I learned those words.

Miriam Bulcher (40:09.515)
Bye!

Miriam Bulcher (40:33.81)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (40:36.044)
I don't know if I would have otherwise if I didn't have young people in my home.

Miriam Bulcher (40:40.305)
Yeah, I love that so much because it's like, mean, and we have to be very thankful for that, of course, that we kind of are trending that way. But I love that your kids kind of prompted and encouraged that journey that you sounds like you were already on, but it's almost like it came from like outside your head. And when we talk about that permission, like it's amazing. I love that so much that your kids just kind of like amplified, you know, things that you were already working on. And they were like, I mean, because you said that even when we jumped on, your daughter was like, wear that dress. And you were like, OK. And I'm upset.

Loriann Stanislawski (41:08.098)
Yes.

Miriam Bulcher (41:10.189)
And I feel like it's funny because I have a lot of clients that are that'll come in and I'm like you know like put this together and they're like really and I'm like, yeah Like let's just do it. Like I think it's a really good and they find they always you know, we're like

And then after they see the photos, like, my gosh, that's great. You know what I mean? Like it looks really good. And I'm like, yeah, like, you know, you absolutely can rock it. And so sometimes it does, like you said, that advice was just so great because I think other people can see things that you don't necessarily see and can also give you that permission to be like, you know what, absolutely, like go for it. And I'm obsessed. That's so amazing. Do you have any advice for women that are over 50 that are maybe like struggling?

Loriann Stanislawski (41:43.895)
Right?

Miriam Bulcher (41:54.052)
with either giving themselves permission to feel sexy or just whatever it might be. It could be dating, could be, you know, maybe they've been with a partner for a really long time and they're like wanting to change things up or like, you know, switch things up. And I mean, like, we all know that, you know.

dressing a certain way or just wearing certain outfits in the bedroom can have a very large impact. But you do have to feel comfortable and you do also have to feel a sense of you don't want to do it out of obligation. You want to do it just because you're like, well, I deserve to feel good. And I deserve this kind of attention. I deserve to get that kind of attention. So what advice would you give them if they are kind of just scared, honestly? Just scared of opening that door again?

Loriann Stanislawski (42:13.395)
yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (42:34.894)
would say practice, practice, practice. So, when you are home and no one, like you said, if maybe they have a partner or maybe they're in a marriage or what you don't like, or maybe you don't, either way, practice on your own. Put clothing on, go through your cold closet. Maybe just figure out what you have. Figure out a fun way to wear something that you wouldn't have otherwise used it. Maybe that's part of how you might dress in the bedroom.

that might start you out wearing things that seem more possibly risque or you think they don't look good on you or I'm worried about this, you know, and we have this lump here and this thing sticking out here, you know. But just start practicing it in front of the door closed and if you have, you know, teenagers or young adults or just people in the house or whatever, this is mom time or this is time, this is my time, walk the door, whatever. Try stuff on, look in the mirror.

Try different things in different ways. Just take a blouse with a collar and tie it up. You know, you maybe don't need a bra, but you're just going to tie it and wear it. Just try different ways of doing things and start with something sexy that might not be lingerie. And then move towards that next. If you have a partner that you want to, you want to wear fun clothes and you let that person know that that's important to you.

Miriam Bulcher (43:51.211)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (44:02.175)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (44:02.254)
you know, and it's, and it makes you feel good to wear these things. And, you know, a partner will, should, may, I don't know what word to use there, but they're gonna go along with it because it helps you to feel sexy. They want you to feel sexy in the bedroom and they want you to do on your own. So you can practice just wearing things on your own. mean, alone time in your own bedroom.

Miriam Bulcher (44:23.978)
Mm-hmm.

I love that so much. I want to jump back a quick second to because there's a lot of women that are like just

You know, and I'm hoping that they'll listen to this episode because I'm like, you know, giving yourself the permission is one thing and it's very terrifying if you haven't worn sexy things since either a weight gain or like a body change. so to even like order something on Amazon might just be like, well, like, you know, a very triggering experience because you're so worried about the.

you're gonna judge yourself, right? Like you don't look like how you used to look. And so how or what advice would you give them? That's like, listen, you know, because to me feeling sexy,

is feeling good and feeling good can be triggering if you're like, oh, but maybe I don't deserve it because I need to give myself to my kids and I need to give myself to my work and I need to focus on this thing. And so it's like, and that's just, I don't even know how we've gotten to the stage where so many women are just like, oh, no, no, no, no, I'll just say yes to everything. And then like not spend any time on me and not, you know what I mean? Like do what you just mentioned, like give myself time to practice feeling good, even in my own private personal space, right? Like it seems like such a foreign idea. so is there any

Loriann Stanislawski (45:39.607)
Yes.

Miriam Bulcher (45:49.468)
that you can give advice to women to like just opening that door to feeling good and and not only that but like the benefits that you get from feeling sexy and just the whole like sex world right like there are so many health benefits that come along with that and we as women I do feel like we are obligated to have those not only like dopamine and oxytocin all those things that come with but like we deserve to feel good and so how do you do you have any advice on helping a woman open that door and be like

No, like, I'm gonna hold your hand, like, we're gonna do this. You know what I'm saying?

Loriann Stanislawski (46:23.122)
yeah. I would say, just like I was talking about when I go back to like the wellness wheel, you know, what's, where's your emotional state at about this? and you know, how, how is it that you came to judge yourself at this harsh fashion? And it might, it may have been from some childhood trauma, right? Or like, you know, even that, that minor incident that I had, that was the who's that guy, you know, and it was, and I was like,

Miriam Bulcher (46:29.451)
Mm.

Miriam Bulcher (46:43.925)
You hear?

Loriann Stanislawski (46:51.822)
So, you know, so maybe there was something in other people's past that people made them hurry up in a rush when they were, you know, picking out clothes for school, you know, and we used to do school shopping in the beginning of the year, you know, it was a traditional thing you did. And what about in the dressing room or whatever? Did someone say something to you that you just internalized, you know, let go of those things that happened?

and give yourself your brand new words, you know, like, I look great in this thing. I'm going to wear this out, you know? So maybe after practicing in your bedroom and then you go to the store at night and you said bye from Amazon, which I do as well, you know? But I just, I love a terrestrial store so much, you know, and to just grab 10 things off the rack and try on different things, you know? And just...

Miriam Bulcher (47:45.621)
Hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (47:47.24)
know that you're going to take time and you're going to go there and you're to do this for yourself and you're in that room all by yourself looking in the mirror and trying things out. Sometimes you talk to other people who's a stranger like what do think of this dress? How does this look on me? you know, that's another step. Nate, the next step is find a friend who is positive, someone who knows how to be empathetic with you and your thoughts and et cetera, right? So that you could go with them and say, Hey, how does this look? You know,

Miriam Bulcher (48:06.795)
Hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (48:16.95)
I love this dress, but is this gonna work for me or these pants or this outfit, whatever it is. And just find someone who's supportive and do that, right? Or yeah, do order things on Amazon or online that you can just try on in your own home as well too. But I think that just all those little baby steps give ourselves permission. And then go out somewhere.

Miriam Bulcher (48:26.123)
Mm.

Loriann Stanislawski (48:43.17)
I don't know where you're wanting to go. Maybe you want to go to the movies by yourself. Maybe you want to go shopping. Grocery shopping, but in this new outfit that you got just because you just want to go out in the public, you know? But yeah, so it's like breaking old habits and pushing away those ideas that you had had in your head or that somebody else fed to you when you were younger and just, you know, blossom. Just open up and try the new things. It's just a matter of,

Miriam Bulcher (48:47.146)
Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (49:08.383)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (49:13.954)
doing it and thinking about what it is that you like or don't like about that, you know, wearing those clothes or what is, you know, what's holding your back with that little voice in the back of your head or something.

Miriam Bulcher (49:19.285)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (49:26.527)
Well, and I think also mentioning too that like, don't stay, because I feel like, you know, when you're like, clothes that you like, I could see a lot of people being like, well, I like t-shirts or leggings and oversized t-shirts. it's like, okay, well, hold on. Hold on. Because there's multiple ways in like what makes you feel good. And I think specific to this topic, we're talking about clothes that are like, make you feel like, damn, I really look good. And I also feel good in that specific category. Like.

Loriann Stanislawski (49:37.428)
you were ready, you ready.

Loriann Stanislawski (49:49.57)
Ha!

Miriam Bulcher (49:53.74)
Because yes, leggings and an oversized t-shirt or oversized hoodie are always going to be the easiest way out. it's like, think feel like you might also have to ask yourself, like, am I taking the easy way out? Like, am I just trying to like avoid not feeling good? I don't know.

Loriann Stanislawski (49:58.979)
Right.

Loriann Stanislawski (50:06.862)
Right. That's a possibility, right? Because, you know, but I see where you're going with that, right? Because that's comfortable. Well, sure that the, you know, the sweatshirt and the whatnot or the, you know, leggings and such, you know, like it's in, all of us wore our yoga pants over the pandemic and got used to it, right? I remember putting jeans on after, you know, months or a year. And I was like,

Miriam Bulcher (50:09.952)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (50:37.262)
doesn't feel the same because I've been yeah so but your your question in there was how do you did you think how do you give yourself permission or what was your what was the main oh no how do we find the weight the fashionable or sexy clothes right yeah yeah you have to go maybe away from your own instinct to them you know

Miriam Bulcher (50:38.697)
Right. Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (50:50.515)
Yeah, I mean it really was like, you know

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (51:04.209)
Mmm, love that.

Loriann Stanislawski (51:06.237)
and rather than picking something off the rack or you know online that you're purchasing, know, pick something that you would not usually wear. Are you going to a dinner party? No. but I want to see how this dinnerware or this dress and these shoes are going to work for me, you know, because I just want to because it's fun, right?

Miriam Bulcher (51:23.819)
Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah, like in some ways it's like you're going back to like, know, you have your own money to play with let's be real and you are kind of giving yourself room to play and I love that you're saying it like that because I think we as women, know, especially as you've gone through the responsibility phase and raising children all without like we lose that ability to be like, yeah, actually I have more time and capacity to have room to play now. So how come you know what I mean? Like give yourself I guess reasons to like what are my reasons not to have fun around a plane? You'll find that there probably aren't

very many. And that's like, I mean, I feel like doing all of this is scary, like period, especially for those that might not be inclined in this direction. So there was one other thing that I wanted to ask you was what advice would you give to women who are like, I just

Loriann Stanislawski (52:07.523)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (52:18.535)
like the whole realm of like the sexuality. don't want not just the feeling sexy, but like opening the door, whether it's to dating or trying out new things in the bedroom or like, you know what I mean? Like all of those things, because they're very like, especially if you've kind of locked yourself out of like your own physical body and you're not used to seeing it, feeling it, touching it, that sort of thing. Is there any advice that you would give them to like kind of experiment or like try new things? Like what would you tell them?

Loriann Stanislawski (52:47.326)
I would tell them, you know, kind of what I did is read some books on the topic and I can even give you some that I read that, you know, might be a jumping off point for people or just, you know, once you start looking. But it could be, and it could be fiction or nonfiction. You know, some women really enjoy fiction books that

Miriam Bulcher (52:58.443)
Yeah.

Loriann Stanislawski (53:10.562)
are have a lot of sex or sexuality in those books. They enjoy that. And that's real turn on. And that feels really good. Right. And maybe there's characters in there that they enjoy as well. But I also that's not my forte so much as I like to read, you know, nonfiction that helps me learn about my body and just sexuality in general and sexiness and, you know,

Miriam Bulcher (53:33.259)
Mm.

Loriann Stanislawski (53:39.878)
the psychology of it all as well. So those are the, that's the kind of things I lean towards. And so I think starting with either book or book on tape or recorded book, wait now, whatever, like audio. Or, you know, listening to your podcast, there's other podcasts about women or sex or sexuality. You can do that all on your own. You don't have to be talking about it with another human or anything. You can just listen to things or read them.

And so I guess I would start there and then people could see where they might want to go with it. I also benefited from, of finding a group of single people who were interested in socialness and camaraderie, not for dating, but single group of just people. then going out as groups, men and women together or going out as just the ladies. Hey, let's all dress up a certain way and go to the supper club. Well, you know.

Miriam Bulcher (54:39.305)
I love that.

Loriann Stanislawski (54:39.532)
like do something about it. So like finding a group of people and that was a little bit easier over the pandemic maybe, I don't know, or maybe it still is. It just felt like my, that's when I was like looking for more and then I found it online and found groups of people and it was very beneficial to getting me out there in the world and just.

Miriam Bulcher (54:44.203)
Mm-hmm.

Loriann Stanislawski (55:06.2)
wearing what I'm gonna wear or going out fancy even if you don't have a date but wear fancy clothes with your girlfriends or whoever and just do it.

Miriam Bulcher (55:13.567)
Yeah.

I love that so much and like incredible advice because I love that. You know, just like the books is such a great thing. Like it's just something you can like dip your toe in and you can, you know what I mean? Like you don't have to jump full water like, I'm to go try on, you know, other clothes right now. Maybe you do need to start with like a little slower pace and that's perfectly a OK. And like I absolutely I'll get those book recommendations and I'll put them in the description for people that do want to check them out. So I love everything. I'm like so obsessed and I

I'm gonna have to ask around people and see if they get I'm like tell me what you thought of this episode Do you feel like there's anything else that you feel like it's important to share in like in terms of your journey? That we haven't talked about yet in terms of like how you can really get into that like my gosh I feel so good, and I love my body, and I love that I can feel sexy and Have more intimacy in my life

Loriann Stanislawski (56:06.156)
Yeah, again, go deep inside. Go in your own head and then go in your own body. Do something with your body that makes you feel good. Is it going outside and laying in the grass? You know, maybe that's it.

Maybe you enjoy yoga. Maybe you should just try yoga or other things like that or meditation. But I find I like yoga because it's a little bit like meditation. It's also using your body, you know, and it occupies my brain a lot and just feeling all of these things that you didn't think about doing.

at yoga, you know, did you think about doing a warrior too? No, I did not. Now I'm thinking about it. And I can't believe but I did achieve it and it's fantastic or whatever the pose might be. And so I think doing things with your body and looking inside to your own self in your brain and...

you know, and all the things that have happened throughout your life. mean, this is what led me, these different things in my life have led me a certain way. So someone else's path is going to be different, but they may pick up on something I said and then that opens an avenue. And if, you know, if I can give a few book suggestions that I enjoyed, people might take a look those and then find other books. Once you look online, then they're going to be suggesting books in that whole area of things that might be helpful to you.

Miriam Bulcher (57:22.879)
Yeah. my gosh, I love that so much. Well, I...

Loriann Stanislawski (57:25.878)
And it's from photography because it's great, you

Miriam Bulcher (57:29.257)
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I love seeing how women are like, my gosh, I look really hot. And I'm like, yeah, dudes, you were hot already. I'm just like showing you. just showing you that you do look absolutely hot. And I love that so much. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your incredible insight and advice. And I think this is, yeah, so amazing. I appreciate you so much.

Loriann Stanislawski (57:36.302)
Yes!

Loriann Stanislawski (57:52.354)
Well, I am just honored that you invited me and I was happy to share things about myself. and I just, I just really feel honored and I appreciate you and I appreciate the work that you do for many women in all different ways. So thank you. Happy to be here.

Miriam Bulcher (58:04.373)
Thank you.

Miriam Bulcher (58:07.916)
I'm yeah, I love it. We can still chat. I'm just going to stop the recording.