#10 Body Wisdom After 50: Movement, Menopause & Whole-Body Health with Denise Utter

In this episode of Empowered Over 50, Miriam Bulcher speaks with Denise Utter, a massage therapist and manifesting generator, about the importance of body awareness, movement, and the challenges of aging, particularly for women. They discuss the significance of muscle memory, bone health, and the impact of menopause on physical and emotional well-being. The conversation emphasizes the need for community support, communication, and exploring holistic approaches to health, including functional medicine. In this conversation, Denise and Miriam explore the importance of building a wellness team, investing in health, and the connection between mindset and body. They discuss how to prioritize self-care, the significance of community support, and the need to embrace change as we age. The dialogue emphasizes the value of a holistic approach to health and the necessity of finding the right practitioners to support individual wellness journeys.

We are looking for women over 50 to participate in our Empowered over 50 Campaign: https://www.miriambulcherphotography.com/empoweredover50

Transcript

Miriam Bulcher (00:00)
Welcome to today's episode of Empowered Over 50. So Denise, who is here with me today, we have been connected now for quite a few years. She has come into the studio twice, second of which was actually an ad for this campaign, which is absolutely amazing. And I need to put those videos out again because they are amazing. So Denise is the most incredible person. Denise, tell us about yourself. Denise's full name is Denise Utter.

Tell us about you, what you do, all the things. There's a lot.

Denise (00:29)
Because there are lot, but we'll try to keep it simple. Because being a manifesting generator, that's why there's a lot. But basically, I'm a massage therapist who also has a passion for theater and video and photography and crafty things and crystals and all of the metaphysical things. So I like all of those areas and I like to be able to blend them together.

no matter what I'm doing. So yeah, I'm a fluid flowing manifesting generator massage therapist. There, how about that?

Miriam Bulcher (00:58)
Yes, I.

love it so much. for those who are listening who might not be familiar, human design is kind of like a, it's not really an offshoot, but it's different than astrology. So that's what we're talking about in terms of that. And for those that are located or near Madison, Denise is like literally the best. I say this every time I introduce Denise to anyone, she's literally like hands down the best massage therapist. So coming from somebody who has massage therapists,

Denise (01:25)
Thank you.

Miriam Bulcher (01:26)
in my family. So Denise is fabulous. Her information is gonna be down below in the description so you can go and book a massage with her because she's incredible, incredible, So today I reached out to Denise because being a massage therapist there's a lot with, I mean and I think I've mentioned this every single episode, right? Just the enormous amount of change that comes with aging, right? Like and there are so many things that happen with the body.

physically, bone density, all of those things that happen. And I know that a lot of the times it can become a concern, especially women who are getting either if they've had grandkids or if they're into retirement, which is like, what is my functionality level look like? And I feel like it's a valid concern because it's like, is one of it. It can be one of the first things that can go right. Like that, or that you'll feel the repercussions of. I have one other client who is like, I can't live without my daily walks. And so,

then she started developing, you know, ankle joint problems. And it was a valid like concern, you know, to really make sure that she was like staying on top of what that looked like with her doctor, because not being in nature, like we drive her insane. And so it's part of the mental health strategy, right? But like your body also has to be there. And like, you have to work with it. So let's just jump into that because

I feel like there's a lot of preventative things that we could be doing, but let's just say for the women that are listening, like, okay, yes, massages are helpful, but it's like, what do you tell your clients and what have you personally done that are like, okay, yes, knowing my muscular system is like really great and getting a relaxing massage is great, but that's also only one very small piece of the pie.

Denise (03:04)
Absolutely. And I'm going to jump right on what you said about relaxing massage. One of my soap boxes that I like to get on is about the different kinds of massages that we have. And relaxing is lovely. And if you want that, say to my clients or people that ask me if you want something like that, I recommend that you go to a massage envy or a spa because that's what they're going to do. But if you're really looking to start tackling

issues that you're having, find someone who does body work or uses body work to describe themselves. So that's why part of my business name is Body Work, because I do massage techniques to work on the body. Hopefully that makes sense. And for those of us as we're getting older, I'm experiencing some of this myself, having those aches and pains, having those

troubles that come up, whether it's the ankle like you were talking about. I have quite a few clients who have either had hip replacements or knee replacements or they've had surgery in their back.

Understanding your body, being in touch with your body is incredibly important. And adding in movement, whether it's from just going for a daily walk, getting out into nature, doing a yoga practice or a stretching practice of some sort within your home. Some people don't feel comfortable going out and working in front of other people, right? Like going to a gym. And I know a lot of conversations are

I've revolved around the discomfort that you can feel when you walk into a yoga studio, depending on the studio. But that movement and that working of the tissues in the body, in the muscles rather, is so important. It's important when we're young, but we don't really prioritize it necessarily. But we do start to feel it as we get older.

And so I have a lot of conversations about that. Do something, do something every day, even if it's only 10 or 15 minutes, right? The muscles start to atrophy as we get older. It's more difficult when you get older to build that muscle. It becomes more difficult with age, just in general, to take care of yourself. So putting that as a priority.

I can't even begin to talk about how important that is. If you're looking for longevity, if you're looking for how am going to play with my grandkids, right? I want to be there for them. I want to be there and be able to get on the ground, be able to get off the ground. Finding practices that work for you, finding a massage therapist that works for you, finding a class, an activity, something to keep you moving is going to be incredibly important.

Miriam Bulcher (05:15)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so it's like that movement aspect is really truly like top top tier like top of the pyramid and then kind of working other things into that I don't think my listeners know I think you know this well Yeah, because I mentioned it a few weeks ago, but I Used to be a personal trainer for the military so it's like I I have to precede that because I'm thinking over here because one of the things that we learned in school was for any age it doesn't matter what age you're at but if you do muscular work, so say you go to the gym

and blah blah blah blah. It doesn't even matter the length of time. So it could be like 30 years, you will still have that muscle memory. Your muscles will be like, we've done this before. And that so like even if at any point in time, you've worked out say it has been like 20 or 30 years, and you're like, don't get discouraged because your muscles have that built in memory. And it is still going to be easier for you to like get back into it. Yeah, of course, you're still going to have like the muscle soreness and stuff. But like when you were talking about the muscle atrophy, which is like the muscle basically disintegrating, you know, slowly over time.

⁓

It just made me think of like that the muscles are so incredible that like how much information that they retain is like insane like absolutely insane and Really incredible because even if you start now and say you do it for six months and then you go on vacation or you know your Kid has a baby and like, know life gets crazy and then you're like, I need to restart this again like say in a year still better than Not doing anything at all because those muscles are gonna retain all its

Denise (06:43)
Hmm

Miriam Bulcher (07:02)
basically memorizes all of those movements that you're doing and that makes it easier to kind of like, well, especially I think in conjunction like with the bone density loss that we constantly talk about, right? Like that muscle connection is so critical for that bone to literally be stronger. Can you like, can you describe that a little bit for the people that don't know just like what happens to your bones when you get past a certain age?

Denise (07:15)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (07:26)
if you want to. If you feel like you're not, if you feel like you don't have the necessary information, that's totally fine. But I feel like it's kind of tied to like, you know, the muscular world.

Denise (07:27)
Yes.

For me, it's tied in that one of the really interesting things when we were going through our anatomy and physiology, learning about the body, which you have to do, right, to become a massage therapist, which a lot of people don't even know, is that the bone is actually just yet another piece of connective tissue. And I don't think we think about it like that. I mean, I know I didn't.

until I learned that in school. We talk about tendons. I talk a lot about the fascia system, fascia and how fascia works with the body. And I guess if I were to think about it, fascia is like that super thin connective tissue, tendons are a little bit thicker, and then the bones are harder yet than those tendons.

Miriam Bulcher (08:22)
Mm-hmm.

Denise (08:24)
But over time, if we don't work the body, impact work, which you could talk to more as a personal trainer than I can as a massage therapist, but building up and keeping that muscle, pardon me, bone strong and healthy is even more important as we get older. It's going to break down. There's only so much we can do. But what we can do is keep our body in good condition

so that when we get older, if we have a fall, we're less likely to have a fracture. Because with that bone breaking down as we get older, that's why fractures are much more of a concern for those who are aged higher numbers, right?

Miriam Bulcher (09:07)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Totally. Well, and I like what you said too about like impact work because yes, walking is extremely important and doing any kind of movement is important. But like if you can build the muscle, especially surrounding like and I think of hips automatically. I'm like hips are such a big one. Bending over tying your shoes, squatting down on the ground, picking up toys. If you have a grand kid like doing any kind of work around your home, really like especially cleaning, you know what I mean? Like bending over or changing the bed

on your bed, like, you know, getting down and taking things out of like the washing machine. There's so many things where your hips are so critical. And so when you said the word impact, I was like, yeah, because like you were mentioning those layers, right? Like the muscle, the tendon, the fascia and the bone, they're all so like working on them all together really makes this like really secure.

well, structure, essentially. when that structure is not, well, secure, then it basically is like, well, we're going to be at a chance of it's I think of it like bridge building, right? Like you need the engineering to kind of be good and it needs to be solid or it's just going to be like, okay. And the structure does start to deteriorate. But there's things that you can do to like make sure it stays in good condition, right? Like checking in on it regularly and all that stuff. But let's go into

to

difficulty of actually implementing this because we can talk about like the importance and data and science and blah, blah, blah, blah, like all day long. But the fact of the matter is that.

Denise (10:29)
and

Miriam Bulcher (10:34)
You know, there's so many health changes, so, so, so many health changes, right? Like whether you've gone through a divorce or you're just going through a job change, or maybe you're just, you know, working a really impressive job and you're really, really busy and, know, and all of that is super important. But what do you have if you don't have the functionality of your body? You know, like.

Denise (10:51)
us.

Miriam Bulcher (10:52)
And I feel like such a I feel like beating like I'm just like a parrot at this point because I'm like, oh my gosh, like even for me, even though I'm in my 30s, I'm like, oh, I can feel the clock ticking. I think it's worse for me because I have all this knowledge of like what happens to the body. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no. I need to be consistent on this. Even if it's like a couple, even if it's once a week, I'm like, great. I just need to do something that involves muscular anything. Right. But going

Going back to the question, let's talk about just the difficulty of going through yet another change. Say somebody is listening to this podcast and they're like, yeah, like I would love to do that, but also where the heck am I even going to start? You know what I mean? it's, it's, muscular work, especially, and especially if you're going to get into impact work, it's a very intimidating world to get into.

Denise (11:42)
Very much so. giving ourselves the grace of, you can do it, first of all. It's something that I've struggled with, knowing I need to do this thing, but I should do these 15 other things that I have on my list, or 50 other things that I have on my list, right?

It's the small steps that can have the greatest impact though. So just start small. Maybe you on Mondays and Fridays capstone your week with 15 minutes of some kind of a workout. And in this day and age, there are so many free options for us to find. You don't have to be a member of a gym.

You don't have to have a Peloton bike. You can just go to YouTube and search lower body workout, upper body workout.

There are 10 minute, 15 minute, 20 minute, 25 minute workouts out there. Maybe you are having some trouble with low back pain or sciatica pain, both very common as we get older, especially the sciatica. There's YouTubes out there that can give you simple movements, low impact movements to get you started. And when you start that routine, what do they say? takes six weeks, something like that.

Miriam Bulcher (12:50)
Hmm.

Denise (12:54)
to really start to settle into a new routine, you just pick that one thing. And when you feel like you've got to the place where you're implementing that more, maybe you add Wednesday in, right? Or maybe you add a weekend time in. You decide whether you do it in the morning or the evening or the mid afternoon, everybody's different. There's so many different, you should do this, you should do this, should do whatever makes sense for you. Because if you don't, if you try to conform into somebody else's idea of what you should be doing,

you're probably not going to follow through with it. So find that thing that you feel good about that fits into this, into your day, where you need it to fit into your day and just go from that. And it doesn't necessarily even have to be a workout, right? It could be, know I don't drink enough water and water is life. And as much as it gets preached at us that we need to drink more water, maybe that's the one thing you decide to start with.

You just have to find the thing that you know that you need to do for you and start it and take those baby steps. And if you fall off, you said this earlier already, if you fall off or you have to stop doing it for whatever personal reason might come up, it's okay to restart. You haven't failed. It's not a failure. It's just a reset. How many times do you have to reset your bed? Right? Maybe you don't make it every day, but

At least once a week you probably reset your bed, right? It's okay to reset. Give yourself a grace.

Miriam Bulcher (14:13)
Well, and the other thing too that I was thinking about is, you know,

It can be so much fun. There's dance, low impact. If you type into YouTube, low impact dancing movement videos. And that, I know that that went really crazy popular during COVID. And there's still a lot of creators that produce weekly dance. And it's just dancing, basically. But you're still moving your body. And it's designed for the health of just moving. And it's great, because sometimes they'll have little mini squats in there or jumping.

Denise (14:20)
and

Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (14:46)
to actually something like that, which again, you don't have to do, can modify them. And they do show the modifications, which I absolutely love because that's again, something that was huge in my schooling was like always offer modifications for people because not everyone is going to be able to do certain things. And then it just randomly occurred to me. So my mom is so funny. We have a very, or I grew up in a very, very, very old house. And so the stairs are taller than a normal and they are not like if you were to take them down, they wouldn't be code. Like they're just way too tall. And my

Denise (15:13)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (15:14)
My

mom, I remember even from when I was younger, if she was like waiting for her bread to rise, she was over there doing steps on the stairs. She was like, I'm just gonna do this for 10 minutes real quick. And she would just literally just up and down the steps and she would just set a timer and she'd be like, 10 minutes, great. And then she would just go back to like whatever she was doing in the kitchen. Like it was just so, it was so random. And it's so funny cause she still does that. Like even now I gave her like a walking pad cause I'm like, well you can do this. And she's like, yeah, but like, it's just easy. The stairs are right there. Like I'm just gonna do a few, you know,

a minute and then that's literally what she does like throughout the day. She literally just does like my mom's like in her late 70s but she just does a few and like all throughout the day and I'm like wow she really just she breaks it up because I think for her like committing to 30 minutes way too much. It was like too much of a bite to like chew off and so I'm like wow that was really smart of her to just be like I'm just going by the stairs okay I'll just do a few you know.

Denise (16:05)
Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, more and more of the learning that I'm getting, I'm things that I'm hearing is that we are actually better served by shorter workouts. You don't need to go spend an hour at the gym. You just don't. And as we get older, our metabolism has changed. And the way our body works out, or rather responds to the workout is just different. So those quicker hits like that.

are just better. then before you know it, you've incorporated probably 30 minutes of workout time throughout the day by doing 10 minute little mini things. The walk, the stairs is maybe giggle a little inside. We have a tradition after dinner to always go for a walk because it lowers your insulin. So the way your blood sugar spikes. And so Mike always goes out for a walk. He's my partner.

I don't always like to go out in the icky weather. So what I will do is while he's out for his walk, I will go up and down our stairs and get my cardio and leg work in that respect. So I love the step thing because that builds strength and it's a quicker hit for cardio. So if you're looking to get some cardio, steps can be a thing for that.

Miriam Bulcher (17:06)
Yep.

you

Well, and

also just thinking about like using the the joint aspect. mean, again, it always comes down to hip for me. It's just like it's utilizing those hips and like such a good way to whether it's just, you know, increasing the flexibility of those by doing, you know, one or two steps at a time or whatever it might be like, my gosh. I mean, especially bonus points. If anybody's listening to this and you have a railing nearby, like literally just grab one of the railing and hold on to it and do like one to back down, one to back down because like, hello security, you know what I mean? Like you don't

Denise (17:19)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (17:42)
have to worry too much about like safety or whatever if you have a railing nearby. But anyways, we're digressing slightly, you know, we have two health nerds talking about health stuff, is why Denise is also here.

Denise (17:54)
It's okay.

It all ends up running into each other anyway, Yeah. Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (17:58)
Totally. Okay. So

let's talk about just some other changes that make it difficult to be functional.

when you get to this age grouping, because I mean, let's be real, like menopause is so challenging because you have all the temperature and like just the sensoriness of like, oh my gosh, I'm going through a hot flash. You know what I mean? Like I don't want to sweat. don't want to warm up my body and then changing 10 seconds later. But also just like the emotional impact that can be very challenging to work through that does make it different to focus on the functionality aspects of things. You know what I mean? Because like from what I've talked about with other clients is

There it becomes it's very clear that you almost need to have a little sit down with yourself. Like once you reach a certain aspect of age, more specifically around this 50, I think because a lot of people are like, I think just there's such societal impact around, you know, you're 50. And so people end up saying like, OK, where am I at in life? What do I want to do? And what do I want to do with like the next 50 years? And for some people, it's positive. And for a lot of people, it's like one giant question mark. So let's just talk about the implications of just going through menopause and what that

means, whether you're already through it. But like, you know what I'm saying? Like just the changes that happen with your body physically and just the emotions that you might be dealing with that are like, you know, I don't want it to feel like a burden just add to the list to focus on functionality.

Denise (19:15)
It is a journey that's different for everyone. And I'm in that journey. I started, and this is fuzzy for me because I wasn't really aware that I was starting it. was 45 probably when I started perimenopause and started having like weird menstrual cycles and started having weird emotion things happening, shortness of temper.

Right? Like all of a sudden I'm freaking out about something or little things are triggering me that maybe would not normally have triggered me before. And so just a learning to read my body and understand my body and start to understand more about what was going on. And as a society, don't like we could we could go on and on about women's health in this country. It's a big problem.

but more and more people are finally starting to talk about it and be open and honest about it. And if we can't have those conversations, how are we ever gonna learn from each other what this is like? So functionally, for me, now that I'm in full menopause, it's a matter of how do I set my room up at night so that I'm not waking up in total terrible hot sweat bed, right?

How do you manage getting into a workout when you know you might have a hot flash and if you haven't had one, there's no way to describe it to anyone else until you, it's one of those until you experience it, you just really don't know. But you start looking for strategies of how to manage that. And having a fan, a cool towel, something nearby to help you cool off quickly.

talking about it so that if you're working out with friends or family or even just a workout buddy that they're aware that this is something that might happen. So if you do start almost suddenly taking layers off, one thinks you're starting a different kind of show. Because you know, it is a real thing that when those those hot flashes hit, all you want to do is take off everything you possibly can to get the heat.

out of your body, because that's what's happening really. you're familiar with Chinese medicine, there is a heat within our bodies that can come out. so there's ways to force that to come out if you go see an acupuncturist or a massage therapist who does Chinese techniques. But anyway, yeah, that heat is so real. Find yourself

Miriam Bulcher (21:31)
Mm-hmm.

Denise (21:36)
some podcasts or some YouTubes that talk about it and find some functional medicine folks around you, other women and start talking about it. What works for you? What does it work for you? What is it like for you? Because what I'm experiencing isn't necessarily what other women are experiencing. I do know some clients who have a lot worse symptoms than I do.

And it's a matter of changing your wardrobe and honestly trying to be more active. It's one of those moments where it feels counter because you know, you're going to get hot and sweaty when you work out anyway. And then you're going to have the addition of the hormone changes and temperature changes that happen. Be willing to work through it because the exercise, the movement absolutely can help regulate.

your entire system.

Miriam Bulcher (22:24)
Mm-hmm. That's a lot of really solid, incredible advice. I think the communication aspect of just like all these changes, feel like is so, and I've heard that from a few other guests that have been on here, and it's like...

trying to find that community. And we do have a Facebook group for anybody that wants it. You know what I mean? That's just like, hey, can we just start a conversation about how to deal with XYZ? You can post it anonymously if you really want to. I think it's important to seek that out and to know that you're not alone and that there's so many other people that are going through this exact same thing. And it doesn't have to be an isolating experience. And you don't just have to rely on Google or whatever it might be or books from the

library, there are so many other real people that would be more than happy to talk about their experience or ways that they're working through the hot flashes, like you mentioned. And just being able to have, I think, that conversation is so powerful.

I'm gonna pause here for a quick second because I wanted to, I was like, I wanted to look back at our first initial conversation because I was like, I know we talked about other stuff and I'm like,

to go back and look for.

Okay, wanted to make sure it wasn't completely insane.

Denise (23:35)
Rain fog. That's a thing.

Miriam Bulcher (23:36)
It's not

it's not so much brain fog as I was like, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to go too far, like off. Like off topic, because I have to keep in mind like who I've had on and it's like, you know, like all the three dimensional things that, you know, happen when you're trying to categorize things and podcasts and make sure they're streamlined. And now, of course, like my brain is completely blanking, which is like never happened before. And I'm like,

Denise (23:59)
Can I add a little tag to, don't know wherever you want to put it, but into the community and talking to women and talking to each other?

Miriam Bulcher (24:02)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Denise (24:08)
Part of what the Facebook group can provide is that conversation you were talking about, but being able to get recommendations locally or regionally around practitioners that also can help, right?

Miriam Bulcher (24:21)
⁓

that makes me think of another thing that did pop up when you were talking. So let's talk about a little bit more about the functional medicine side of things, because I do know, and I think that's also something, again, the changes, right? And like, where to get this information. And hopefully, you know, people who are listening to this podcast find this really helpful, because I think that there are a lot more resources outside the normal medical industry that are so amazing and incredible.

And know, again, I have three naturopaths in my family, so like in addition to massage therapist, so it's like, you know, I'm all about that.

I think a lot of the first questions can be like, well, let me go talk to my doctor. Well, your doctor's kind of purview is like, OK, well, here are some maintenance things. You know what I mean? Maybe it's time to change up your vitamin intake, right? As you get older, because your needs change. But outside of that, it's going to be like, OK, well, what? He's probably going to tell me the same thing I could find on Google. And so I do feel like what you were saying about finding the right functional medicine people that can kind of give you support for

from

other areas that are so helpful. And they also, I feel like are easier to kind of jump into. I don't know if you've had that experience, but it feels like it's just easier to get, whether it's acupuncture or like going to see you who's more of a body work massage therapist, I can give you practical information about your body and being like, okay, well, you know, this is kind of what I'm feeling from your muscles in this area or whatnot.

And whether you go see a physio or whatever, mean, I'm a huge proponent of physio because I'm just like, my gosh, let me just have someone tell me what is happening with my body, right? Because if you feel like you have not developed an intimate relationship with your body on whatever level,

It might be like, I don't know what's going on. I know that I don't feel great, but I also don't really know what's going on. And I feel like, you know, a doctor is not really going to be able to give you like musculoskeletal information to the extent that like a functional health person might, I don't know, you might want to expand on that.

Denise (26:18)
Where I would jump in first is I like to look at things from an Eastern Western. It's a simplified view, but in Western medicine, as I believe we all understand the limitations there, they look at the symptom. They look at the one thing, right? Where in Eastern, whether you call it Chinese medicine or not, Eastern approach is more holistic, meaning you're looking at the entire

Miriam Bulcher (26:23)
Mm.

Denise (26:45)
higher picture, right? What is your mental status? Are you having any kind of depression? Are you going through anxiety? Where is your emotional being? How does that impact your physical being? Because the emotional being 100 % affects the physical being. And in Eastern medicine, Eastern idea, holistic or functional, there's all these different terms. So it can get to be very

very confusing. Having grown up in the Western world, we go to that one practitioner and then maybe we find a specialist, right? In Eastern, I like to talk about it as you're looking for your team. Who is your team? So you're gonna find a massage therapist or a body worker, right? Hopefully. I definitely recommend getting an acupuncturist for those times you need to do that. Finding someone who understands maybe plant medicine,

supplements, things that are not pharmaceutical, but a more natural in basis. I'm not saying don't do pharmaceutical. I think there's a place for it within the team of people that you find and develop as being your support system. And I think it's really important to have a Western medical doctor who accepts and understands the Eastern

ideas and how they can all work together. I was blessed to have a doctor that was like that. However, he retired and now I'm searching for a new one. finding that team to be able to look at all of those different aspects together is important. There are, and this is kind of outside of my scope, but I have enough of an understanding to say there are practitioners out there who can.

Miriam Bulcher (28:13)
Thank

Denise (28:21)
run some tests on the body and see what's going on within the body. One of them actually my partner Mike has done is called DEXA scan, which is really cool for finding out where your bone density is. So then there's a practitioner here in the Madison area that does that. So I highly recommend finding that. But finding someone who can look at you as an individual

where you're at, what your lifestyle is, what do you eat, what are you allergic to, all of those things, what is your background? And then help you build a wellness plan for yourself. That would be key.

Miriam Bulcher (28:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I love what you mentioned about a team because, you know, it's so funny because I have a primary care doctor and he's great because I'll just call him up and be like, so, and I, I'm straight, like I'm totally transparent. I'm like, well my sister in law is an antipath and she's told me that I need this test. Can I just get this one test? And they're like, okay, well what do you think you need it for? And then I tell them and then they're like, okay, well let me just see if he'll approve it. And nine times that he's never said no, because whatever he's just like, she, she has help from other areas and he's really great about that. He's like, okay, sure.

And they usually allow me to just order that one specific test and it's great because then I just get that paperwork and I forward it off to my sister-in-law and I'm like, here you go. Like, here's what you needed. But then I think about, but then I also have this allergy doctor that I see specifically like over like north of Milwaukee. And it's like, it really truly is. And then I have you of course. And I have my physio who I have, I'll put her recommendation down below as well. She's in Verona and she's amazing. You know, like I absolutely do.

have a team. I guess I just never thought about it like that, but it's a great way to see that we as humans absolutely need the support and we're not going to be able to utilize Google for everything. And like I think just having these resources and just knowing that at any point in time you know where to go is like incredible because I feel like half the battle at least for me is like finding the right people that you can talk to and ask questions about. And I mean I truly feel like incredibly blessed that you walked into my life because I

I literally had gone to so many horrendously failed massages. I think I told you about those. It was such horrible, horrible, horrible experiences. And I'm like, I just need someone who understands the body. I want to say, OK, I think this is where I need help with. And I love that you ask me that. Every time I come in, you're like, OK, what are some problem areas that you're experiencing? And it really becomes this functional approach. OK, I do want this massage to have an actual return.

for me, which I feel like, again, I'm not saying not knocking on relaxation massages, but I feel like for me, I would like to get something out of it. Like if I'm going to relax, I would probably go do something a little bit differently, like and just go to Sundar, right? Like kind of just, you know, something more focused, like on that specific area. But I feel like if you have the opportunity and you know someone, it's like I want to if I'm going to go and get my muscles worked on, I want it. I want to know.

that I've improved something. Does that make sense? I want it to work or I want it to be an investment, right? Like in my actual physical body.

Denise (31:18)
absolutely.

Well, financially it is investment, right? Massage is not something that's covered. There's very rare cases where you might have a massage therapist that's working at a chiropractor's office or something like that, but it is really, really rare. Actually, I just saw a post about that and that's a whole different pedestal, but people can't make money off of it, so they don't cover it, essentially, is the message that I just heard in a massage therapist form.

Miriam Bulcher (31:44)
you

Denise (31:49)
That's a different topic for another time. It's an investment. You're making that choice to do that.

For some people financially, it is difficult to be able to pay for a massage. Most therapists wanna do a 60 or a 90 minute session because we can get the most work done, but those are also the more expensive sessions. So if you have the ability to find a therapist, it's a mindset thing. You can go in for a 30 minute session and have someone work on one, maybe two issues, but primarily you're talking about one issue.

Miriam Bulcher (32:09)
Mm.

Denise (32:18)
So if you're having like a low back thing going on, you're only gonna get the massage on the body areas that are impacting that, right? Or possibly leading to that pain source, right? This is where the team comes in though, and we're an understanding of how this is not a quick fix situation. You know, these aches and pains,

that we experience over 50, they didn't just start when you turned 50, right? They've been building over time. And maybe you have something where you tweaked your back, but that tweak happened because something else was already out of place or already out of alignment. So knowing that your team is there to help you figure out how to address those issues, you may need to go for a 30 or 60 minute massage.

with a massage therapist and then immediately follow that or pre precede that depending on what's happening with chiropractic. Right. I didn't list that before, but that's another modality or that type of care that you can do. none of them is magic in that they're going to fix you immediately. I've had the rare occurrence where someone's gotten off the table and they're like, my God, I can walk again. That can happen.

But the long-term fix, I don't even like that word, but the long-term care usually requires a few different sessions with multiple practitioners to fully address what's going on.

Miriam Bulcher (33:46)
you

think the other thing that we should talk about here is just the mentality that we've been taught that like, well, we're not worth the amount of attention and money that it comes to be functional because I feel like that is like one of the hardest things I think just like going through life as a woman in today's society and for however many years prior because let's be real, it's been there this whole time, right? Like, well, this is what you should be doing, right? Like you should either be working or taking care of your family. And there's that hidden

expectation there. And so if you're hearing all the things that we're saying and you're like, my gosh, but that sounds like it's going to be, you know, either a big investment or like, whoa, you know, for for me to make that many appointments for myself can be almost a little intimidating, maybe. And maybe you're like, if this is going to give you the permission, absolutely. Like we are giving you permission. Like, please go and do this. But let's talk about that, because I think it's very tricky to just get your own dentist appointment. And let's be real, like.

Denise (34:44)
yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (34:45)
It's not fun. I think that's the trickiest thing about these. This area is that it's not exactly fun, but the return you get from it is insane.

Denise (34:53)
There's two things that are in there. It's incredibly important to take care of yourself and to prioritize yourself. so much of the world, I think, is starting to shift into understanding that. But there's still a segment out there that's hustle and grind and hustle and grind and hustle and grind. And I can't possibly get a massage before five o'clock because I can't take off work to go do that. Right.

I can't possibly do whatever that thing is because I have to work. But I like to throw the power of no into this and say, you need to take care of yourself and make it a priority. Most businesses give you personal time now. And if they truly, truly are a business that stands behind it, I might go somewhere here for a second, but truly a business that stands behind your

self-care and your wellness because they know that it will help you be a more functional employee, a more productive employee, then it shouldn't be a problem for you to be able to get off work to go take care of yourself and prioritize those appointments. The trick might be getting in to see a practitioner because that's thing that unfortunately in Western,

you might be able to call and get into your primary within a week or a couple of days, depending on the circumstances, what's going on. That's why they have the nurse do the field call and find out where you're at. A lot of times in massage and bodywork and holistic folks are booked out two, three months. I hear it from people a lot. I needed a massage. couldn't get in. It's true. That's why you need to make it a priority in your life and book out.

When you find your person, massage, whatever, when you find your person, get on their calendar. The way I always say it is, let's get you on the calendar. We can always cancel an appointment if something comes up and you can't make it or really, truly a work crisis happens. But you're better to start finding your person, get on their calendar, make it a regular thing. If you're someone who doesn't feel like you can get that

into your routine monthly, that's okay. Again, give yourself grace. If you only go every three months, or once a quarter, go, get that work and get on the calendar. Then the sooner you get on the calendar, the sooner you will start to see over time, because it doesn't, right? Again, not all at once. You will start to see the impact that it has. And that I think is the idea that you...

The sooner you start it, the sooner you will see the results and the longer you will have those results.

Miriam Bulcher (37:18)
Mm-hmm.

Yep, absolutely. Well, and this has me thinking because I feel like in some ways it's also the universe being like, OK, well, how committed are you going to be? You know what I mean? Like, how committed are you going to be to your own wellness? And that is, you know, it can be like I have to drive an hour and half to go see my chiropractor. And he books out like if you're a new client and you don't even know if he's taken new clients, he has people come from all over the country and he teaches at the chiropractic college in Iowa and whatever all this crazy stuff. But I'm like, I absolutely will drive.

Denise (37:32)
yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (37:51)
that hour and a half, you know what I mean? And I like block my calendar around the drive because I'm like, same thing with the L.A.G. lady north of Milwaukee. I'm like, absolutely. I will adjust my entire life schedule to make those things happen because, my gosh, the return that I get from those two things alone, hands down, I probably would even drive farther to be quite frank. If I absolutely needed to, I absolutely would drive farther because I've seen the benefit from it, the benefit from it.

is just insane. And so, but I do feel like it is, you kind of, it's an assessment. It's like, okay, well, is this worth it to me? Am I willing to take a risk on myself to see what this outcome could bring me, right? Because, yeah.

Denise (38:32)
Keep the curiosity to be as this is just like whoever for podcast listeners, keep the curiosity around what works for you because just because physio works for Miriam might not work for me. I'm sure that it would because physio is amazing. but all of us have our our biases and try to set those biases aside. Right. Keep the curiosity. Try different massage therapists. Try because they're

Miriam Bulcher (38:52)
Hmm.

Denise (38:58)
There are so many different massage modalities, the types of massage that even myself as a practitioner, I have three or four different people I go to depending on what I'm looking for. If I'm looking for deep tissue release, I might go to practitioner A. If I know that I'm just like, I need to disconnect, I'll go to practitioner C, right? And how your body feels,

with each person can change.

So keep curious, keep looking, keep finding, keep trying and keep learning. Right? Keep learning. Learning about yourself, learning about your body, stay in touch with your body, be aware of your body, be aware of what's going on and hopefully don't put up the roadblock of, there's no way that could ever, or my body's been like this forever. You could never make it any better. If you think it,

Miriam Bulcher (39:31)
Hmm.

Mmm.

Denise (39:50)
then it's true, right?

Miriam Bulcher (39:51)
Mm-hmm.

That's a really good point that I feel like we should touch on because I'm thinking of a friend of mine who's like, well, my body's just a mess. And I'm like,

That's an interesting, you know, and it comes like she says it a lot and it's like, well, my body's just a mess. And it kind of leads to this like, you know, something happened. She's like, well, no surprise. And now I have to go and do this, this, this, this and this. And I'm like, OK, but like your body doesn't have to be a mess. You know, like it really is. What do I want my mindset to be about my body? And that's something that we haven't talked about that I feel like is we definitely should talk about it because, you know, like I.

very much envision what I want my body, how I want my body to work for me. Like I wanna be, I wanna work with my body to make sure that it's performing at a level that really does truly work for me. And I mean, I wanna use this example because I started working out, I think this was last year. I started working out at the beginning of last year and then I had a problem with my hip and I remember like having to go to physio for it.

found enormous amounts of information and then was like, and then Denise, you I was like, I'm gonna do this in conjunction because, I just told Denise, like, we need to work on this part of my hip and blah, blah, blah, blah, and was able to get it resolved and it was like amazing. And in my mind though, I knew, I was like, well, this isn't gonna be a permanent thing. Like, I know that I'm gonna seek out an answer to this and then it will still, it's not gonna.

continue, like I didn't get frustrated because I was like, well this, just have to learn, right? It's like when your car check engine light goes on, you're like, great. Is it annoying? Absolutely. But it's like, okay, well, I need to find out what's wrong, right? So you're gonna bring it to a mechanic and find out the information that you need, right? So our bodies are very much the same. I think it's really important that we're not diminishing or belittling.

like what can truly be an incredible functional tool. So let's dive into that because I feel like it's kind of like a hidden thing that's like, we don't really talk about it. You won't hear it talked about much like in any, you know, world really like in the personal training world or you know what I mean? Like even in chiropractic here or whatever, like you won't hear that, well, what's your mindset like with your body, you know?

Denise (41:54)
Absolutely. Actually, we just had this conversation here last night at home around that because it was with the weather shifting, the weather absolutely can affect the body. Your body can feel it. And Mike was feeling, you know, a little, little less than up to what he would like his body to be and was very much feeling that. And I, I said, like if to him, if that's how you feel, that's how you're going to feel.

For me, I always come back to Henry Ford, the quote from Henry Ford, which was brilliant for the time and keeps coming back and coming back and coming back. it's whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. It's that whole and I know this is one of those things for people that you have to have experienced some affirmations around it or some events around this to to have it land for you, which is why I'm so passionate.

because I have, shifting your mindset and how you speak to your body can shift everything. The more you tell your body it's bad, the more it's gonna be bad, right? If you come at your body with gratitude and thankfulness, is the pain gonna go away overnight? No. But over time,

that shift starts to happen. It's like that new habit, right? So finding that thing that maybe you really don't like about your body, but pouring love into it and gratitude into it instead of hate, man, it's a powerful thing. And that's the mind-body connection, right? How are your emotions? How are you?

How are you feeling? What are you thinking about? Are you watching the news 24 seven? Please turn it off. Step away. It's so it'll still be there. Don't worry. Something major happens. You will know. But do you need to be so dialed into all of the negative, all of the anxiety is all of that. You feel it. You feel it here and then you carry it here and you carry it here. Those headaches start to come in.

Miriam Bulcher (43:32)
Yeah.

Denise (43:51)
Right? Let it go. Appreciate, you know, I don't, I don't love this part of my body. I truly don't, but I appreciate that I have my underarms. Yeah. But I appreciate the strength that I have in my arms that allows me to do the job that I do because while I don't muscle in the work that I'm doing, I still need some strength to work my arms, to work your body, to work my clients bodies. So I say thank you to what I've been given.

Miriam Bulcher (43:58)
Under your honor. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Denise (44:17)
And I'm on this journey just like anyone else. We're all human.

Miriam Bulcher (44:22)
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, everything that you said.

I mean, I can't like emphasize it enough because I have to I have to use this example because my son recently got a pimple inside his nose. We all know what those feel like. They're absolutely hermetic. And then two days later, he comes home and my husband's like, oh, he has a pimple in his eye. And I was like, what? And I'm like, and I was like, yeah, it's like kind of like in the waterline. I'm like, that's a sty. That's not a pimple. And my poor son is like, well, what can we do to fix it? And I'm like, well, you're to need to do like warm compress.

you know, multiple times a day. But the poor guy was so distraught, because now he has these two things. He's got a pimple in his nose and a sty in his eye. And he is finding it so hard to be functional with those two things. And I'm sitting over here like, it was more so a reflection point for myself because I'm like, you know, even when things come along, right? Like right now I'm dealing with glute issues and lower, it's, you know, leading into lower back problems. And I'm like, okay, time to go back to physio, you know? And I'm like, I could treat.

Denise (45:08)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (45:21)
that a couple different ways. I could be like, OK, you know, like, great. Thanks for nothing. You know what I'm saying? Like I could have that kind of attitude with my body and instead of like, you know what? I'm really excited to see what I'm going to discover because this is just going to make like my whole when I am able to go back to the gym like my gym routine is going to be so much better because of this information that I'm going to find. And I just get excited about finding the information. Do I know I'm going to have to do lots of exercises and I'm probably going to have to see Denise, you know, more often like, yeah, probably. But I know

Denise (45:29)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (45:50)
that this is necessary. Like it's necessary for my body to go through this and I'm gonna invite that knowledge in and so you know the way I see it is like wow you know like these two things are really you know like my poor son he's like he's miserable and I'm like okay well hold on though because it could be worse. It could be way way way way way worse. You could have pink eye, you could have like a cut inside your nose or whatever you know like things that are so much more painful and it's that constant like

Okay, yes, it's absolutely annoying. There's 110 things about our bodies that we're going to find annoying, right? Like you mentioned, like you mentioned the underarms and like so many things, but I don't want to focus on that because that just doesn't make me feel good. You know, like I want to focus on

Denise (46:23)
Mm-hmm.

Miriam Bulcher (46:32)
What again, I envision my relationship with my body being, which is like, we're going to do this together. We're going to figure this out together. And it'll be, you know, we'll we'll find a solution. Like it's absolutely going to work out. And I think that like, hey, it's going to work out mentality. If you feel like you're not that person, just maybe tap into it for a day and be like, OK, for one day, I'm just going to see what like if I just am like, OK, it's all going to work out. And you just say like, it's all going to work out and just see what you feel like at the end of that day, because is it challenging? Absolutely. There's no question.

like Denise said, like go a day without watching the news or checking your news on your phone or what it might be. And then just keep saying like it's going to work out and then just see what happens. But I feel like I have taken that approach with my body, like it's going to work out and I want to have a positive relationship with my body. And I feel like that very much shifted the game in terms of like how many things were kind of wrong with me. And I discovered my autoimmune problem and I discovered like a lot of things that were really pivoted. But that was the key point was like redefining my relationship.

with myself because it felt like my body was a nuisance and then I was like okay well what happens if I see it not as a nuisance and I see it as a tool that's really here to help me live my best life.

Denise (47:39)
And to really focus in on learning. I know we talked about it a couple of times today, but learning more about what's going on, why it's happened, so that you maybe can prevent it from happening again. Or if something else starts to feel a little wonky or off, you at least have that idea of, okay, well, I got through this thing, I can get through this thing, right? It's a short time to...

in the reality of time, six months maybe, three months maybe to get through something, because the body, it's resilient, but it's not always quick. But that's really still a short time. You're not laid up for the rest of your life. You're not a paraplegic, right? You're just going through a season. And the more you can learn, the better for you. Yeah.

Miriam Bulcher (48:21)
Yep, absolutely.

Yep, absolutely. And I think taking that positive approach and just knowing that you absolutely deserve again, if you're looking for that permission, here it is, like go and book those appointments and you know, I'm Denise and I will pull together some, you know, people and resources that we know, we'll add them to the description. And, know, like if you're looking for anything specific, like pop into the Facebook group and ask and be like, okay, I'm looking for, you know, if you, if you know, for example, like you need hormone therapy or something like that, I'm sure someone is going to have an answer in that group. Because again,

specifics, right? Like just get the conversation started. I feel like that was such a great note to end on because it's like...

Let's make this a positive conversation. You know, it doesn't have to feel like drag. It doesn't have to feel like, you know, because I think that's also why I started this whole campaign was like, everyone just thinks it's downhill after you turn 50. And it's like, hold on a minute. Right. Like, let's change that perspective and let's change the fear and the discomfort around all the physical changes that your body is going to go through. Hence this conversation. Right. Like you can have your you can have your team, you can have support, you can have community. And it does not have to be any of those things that society makes it sound like.

It doesn't have to be isolating. doesn't have to be any of these things. And that goes for anybody at any age, not even, you know, if you're over 50, because it's important, I feel like at any age. And I think the more you can get into that mindset of like, great, I just need to look for support community and just look for the resources where I need to podcast books, whatever it might be, the better off your life is going to be overall.

Denise (49:48)
Yeah, the little ad that I was thinking of here too is it's not that everything's gonna be sunshine and rainbows all the time. You're going to feel the frustration. So do that. Let yourself feel it, but put a time limit on it, right? If you need to be able to go through all of the emotions, I'm going through grief right now. I'm not crying every minute of the day, but when it comes, I have to let it flow.

Miriam Bulcher (49:59)
Mm-hmm.

Denise (50:09)
So if you get that frustration around your body and the changes in your body and how your body does not do what it used to do and you wish you could go back 20 or 30 years, I think we all could wish that. So sit in that for a little while, maybe journal about it, write about it, how you're feeling, get it out of your system, right? And then get up and look for the things that you love. Look for the thing that's gonna brighten your day.

now that you've gotten past the thing that's gonna be maybe more of a shadow in your day. Give yourself the grace of time, give yourself the grace of love. And the more we can, as individuals, can lean into that more and love ourselves more, the more likely we are to bring that love out and into the world, into each other and share it with each other. And more than anything right now, I think that's the thing that we need.

Miriam Bulcher (50:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yep, absolutely, 100%. my gosh, amazing. Is there anything else that you feel like we haven't discussed that you're like, this is really important for these women to know, whether it's about their body or more about the mindset or more about just, you know, menopause or whatever it might be.

Denise (51:08)
I think we covered a lot of really great things. Just remember like the key things of get a community, find a group that you can connect to, that you can ask questions to. There's several out there now, whether you're on Facebook or Blue Sky or ThreadsX, whatever your... There are places to go to find community. Online is great, but also look in your community.

And C, are there events happening in the community where you might be able to be in person and get to meet some people and know some people? You know, if you're looking for a new activity, maybe you're you've always wanted to try the yoga. Maybe that's something you have been afraid of. Try a couple of different yoga studios. Some of them are kind of standoffish. No, no, no denying that. But there are some beautiful places that are super loving, warm and welcoming. Find that maybe maybe as an adult, you start dancing. I did. I started at.

Miriam Bulcher (51:54)
Thank

was just

gonna say, please talk a little bit about what you're doing because for people who don't know, Denise is over 50 and you need to say what you just started doing. Okay.

Denise (52:10)
I just

started taking ballet and a beginner ballet. It's near impossible to find adult dance anywhere. So when this young lady started her dance company and so she just brand new to just started it and she's offering these adult dance classes, I was like, yes, I'm in because I've always wanted to learn. My parents, unfortunately, were not able to take me there. Right. When I was a kid, they didn't have the financial means to do it, but now I do.

And so, yeah, I'm so excited about it. And the mind-body connection is amazing because you have to be able to do the different steps and think about where you're going and think about your positioning and whatever. And for brain health, we didn't even talk about that. So this little nugget for your brain health and reducing brain fog and keeping good cognitive function, dance is amazing for that.

Miriam Bulcher (52:59)
Mm-hmm.

Denise (53:00)
just so amazing.

It can be very frustrating and intimidating, but yeah, highly recommend. Find some kind of belly dance. You can even take burlesque dance classes, pole dancing, ballet, something like that would be a great thing to add into your idea of things that you want to do. And they're fun. It's fun.

Miriam Bulcher (53:16)
Awesome.

Yeah, give me one second. Somebody just walked in.

Denise (53:21)
Fair enough.

Miriam Bulcher (53:23)
Amazing.

Well, I love that and I am so grateful that you are here sharing your immense knowledge. like I said, all the information, I think we need to put the information about the adult dancing as well down below because I feel like there might be a lot of people that are like, again, I love it. know, give yourself permission to try new things and age is not a limit. Like don't don't let that get in the way. And I'm just so thankful. Go see Denise. Ask in the group. And I'm just so thankful we had this conversation. So thank you, Denise.

Denise (53:51)
Thank you, thank you for having me on.

Miriam Bulcher (53:52)
Well, we can still.