BeansTalk
BeansTalk: Where Expertise Meets Opportunity, Mauldin & Jenkins' podcast, where we are sharing and showcasing our areas of expertise through conversations with practice leaders on their knowledge and experience.
BeansTalk
Pillars of Government Transformation: Balancing Risk and Performance
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In this episode, we explore the framework for modernizing state and local government through five key pillars of transformation. The discussion highlights how agencies can optimize human capital and service delivery while replacing inefficient, paper-based workflows with software-driven automation to ensure precision and accountability. Listeners will gain actionable insights on balancing risk and performance to deliver essential public services more effectively in an increasingly digital landscape.
About Our Guest
David Roberts is an experienced public sector consultant with extensive national experience in creating and implementing transformational strategies for improving operations, service delivery models, and stakeholder satisfaction. He possesses a deep understanding of business and relationship development, client delivery, and people development.
About Our Host
Brandon Smith, CPA, is a Partner based in the Atlanta office and the Advisory Practice Leader.
Learn more about our Governmental Industry services here: https://www.mjcpa.com/industries/governments/
Welcome to Beans Talk, M&J's podcast where we are sharing and showcasing our areas of expertise through conversations with practice leaders on their knowledge and experience. If you were tasked with optimizing a state or local government, where would you start? Human resources, essential services, budget, technology. In today's episode, we are going to unpack the blueprint for a modern, high-performing government. And I'm very excited to be joined by our guest, David Roberts, who is the practice leader for a management consulting and government advisory services segment. Hey, David.
Speaker 02Hey Brandon, it's great to be here.
Speaker 01So, David, I kind of uh uh gave the introduction of trying to optimize a government, and I'm really excited for you to be joining to this episode uh because of your background and experience and expertise in in government operations and all things government. So will you do a favor for our audience and just kind of give me uh a little bit of a background on yourself and your role at Mauldin & Jenkins?
Speaker 02Yeah, absolutely. So uh David Roberts, uh been probably been with the firm for over six years now, and uh I have 25 years of experience focusing strictly on state and local government, and that's uh in in the consulting realm. And so we do a wide variety of things, but it's really about problem solving and uh helping create positive transformation.
Speaker 01Well, and that's you know, it's it's awesome that you focus on the government space because you know what one thing I always think about when it comes to governments is is we all think about and interact with governments in different ways, just as you know, citizens and residents. But really, when you you break it down, like governments that they have a business to run just like anybody else, right?
Speaker 02Absolutely.
Speaker 01So they have to just you know really focus on a lot of the core things that throughout this podcast series we we we we kind of navigate and view on, all of those are highly relevant topics for governments. Uh, but there are some special things. I mean, they are unique in a lot of aspects too, so you really have to kind of understand the space, you know, specifically and kind of treat them for for you know what they are. So, from that perspective, I guess can you just kind of talk me through from kind of a high level some of the overarching things you think about when it comes to kind of governments or activities and helping them kind of optimize and and and serve their missions and efforts?
Speaker 02Yeah, absolutely. So obviously with governments, there are core services that they have to provide. And I think that, you know, when governments focus internally on how they're providing those services, they're able to do them more efficiently and effectively. And I think with that, that results in either additional services or enhanced services that are being able to be provided to the citizens and stakeholders.
Speaker 01Yeah, definitely. Because that's a lot of the times when we look to our governments, it is just the services that and they're they're not just services, essential services. That's exactly in many ways. Things where we're we're reliant on. And I know budget can always be something they they need to navigate and keep a close eye on, but at the end of the day, like they have to provide those services regardless of budget in many, many cases, right?
Speaker 02You're absolutely right.
Speaker 01So I want to kind of dive into services, but even just bigger picture too. I guess you know, I'm thinking like human resources and and optimization and business processes, like kind of what are the what are the themes that you mainly think about when it comes to kind of governments and their operations?
Speaker 02No, you're you're exactly right. I I think really there's kind of five key themes that should be focused on for efficient government operations. Uh the first is your human capital, and then maybe we can dive into each of these individually.
Speaker 01Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 02The second would be service delivery model. How is the government providing its service to its citizens and stakeholders? Uh, third would be the business processes or workflow. So, what what are the internal processes that the government's using to deliver its services? Uh, four would be innovation and technology, helping ensure that the governments are staying current, staying relevant. And uh also with that comes security as well. And and lastly, um customer service. I think that's often something that's not necessarily thought about, but really understanding who the customer is, and that's both external, your citizens and stakeholders, as well as internal. Um, there are many support functions within the governments that uh provide internal services.
Speaker 01Oh, yeah, those themes, and and that's something I guess it's nice too, because it kind of I feel like my intuition was right then you know, when it comes to thinking about a government and and that they have a business to run and a lot of the things they navigate, because those themes you just outlined. So with the human resources, definitely agree, man, you know, monitoring our workforces, the services they're offering, you know, and they're delivering models around that, and then the business processes, uh technology, and then yeah, customer service. So I those five themes are perfect. I would love to navigate each of those with you. So kind of kind of you know, walking through that journey of those themes. I guess let's start on the first one you mentioned, which is human resources. Um, I know that's just a common thing business leaders everywhere has to navigate and monitor, but from a government lens, what are some of the key things that governments need to pay attention to when it comes to kind of human capital and human resources?
Speaker 02No, that's a great, great question. And and I think that human capital is one of the biggest, you know, areas that governments should focus on. Um especially when you look at expenditures, it's always the largest, you know, uh largest line item. And so I think that, you know, human capital, obviously it's the largest line item from an expense perspective, but also is the government's greatest asset. And so how can governments maximize its greatest asset? And I think that gets into um training and equipping employees. Um there's a great little little quip that I love to share. Um you know, a CFO walks into a human resources director's office, and the CFO says, well, what if we spend all this money training and they leave? And the HR director says, well, what if we don't train them and they stay? And so I I think that uh, you know, that speaks volumes that really should be investment in people. And I think that, you know, looking at the human capital perspective, it gets into employee culture, the work environment, and and really you want employees or you want governments to focus on the three R's. So it's recruiting, uh, retaining, and retirement. So you want to focus on attracting top talent to your organization. Then once they're there, you want to do the things you need to do to keep them, and then hopefully evolve all the way through retirement, then keep them there for a long period of time.
Speaker 01Yeah, well, and that's that's a funny quip you had about the training, but that is so true though, especially when you're looking at an organization, because all different types of businesses, different business models have different kinds of, if you look at their financial statements, different kinds of costs, and what the, if you think about like a factory or something, and all the different fixed costs they have and the production facilities and whatnot. When it comes to really service-oriented organizations, it is personnel, it is the human capital. That is primarily where the money goes. And so investing in that appropriately. So I love how you described kind of the first thing is what just the training, the training and also maybe even today upskilling when it comes to technologies. So so double-click on that a little bit. I guess what does training kind of look like? Are we talking about, you know, a lot of internal training and our onboarding processes and kind of the life cycle of an employee? Are we more focused on like external conferences and thought leadership avenues? Are we just beefing up standard operating procedure manuals to kind of be handoff? You know, what from from like a best in breed government, I guess, what is kind of a good training culture look like?
Speaker 02Yeah, that's a great, great question. And I think the answer is really all the above. Um, however, um that being said, I I think that there certainly needs to be internal training. And also there's some things that can be done a little bit different, such as um uh job shadowing or um even sending employees to do other jobs that are outside their department enroll so that they can better understand departments and better understand the enterprise goals and objectives.
Speaker 01That kind of ties into communication too, right? Like when it when it comes to businesses just having open channels communication, understanding what one another does and being able to uh work together and and have that kind of cross-divisional and cross-department support. I love that idea of having them giving everybody the opportunity just to kind of step over into that office over there and see what they're up to and then have them kind of return. That's really neat and job shadowing as well. Love that idea. Great concept. Now, what about when it comes to that retention thing that you mentioned? I I know just generally speaking, you know, when it comes to the workforce force and different trends and different, you know, areas of expertise and different subject matters, sometimes it can be kind of challenging to not only first attract the right talent, but then also retain them. What are some of the things that you you look at from the perspectives of attracting and then importantly retaining that talent? Like how can we we do that at a best in breed government?
Speaker 02Oh, absolutely. So I I think a key to retention is is creating that positive employee culture and work environment. And I've I've looked at numerous surveys and and what's important to employees, especially younger generations, really is having one, a defined career ladder and a career path. And and second, having constant communication really through mentoring relationships. And so they, you know, survey data says that people really want to know that their organization is invested in them. And I think that you know, if you can build formal succession plans, and I've I've spoken on this topic a lot, um, it really helps to motivate staff to know that they may be groomed for a certain role or position or maybe have the opportunity to do some stretch assignments. And so I think showing that investment in people and having that constant communication and really clear defined career path will contributes significantly to people staying.
Speaker 01That career path. I guess it starts with a defined career path. And then from there, showing somebody how they can walk that and then through the mentoring and other things, really, you know, giving them the opportunity to progress to that career path. So yeah, that's a great call out. And now what about when it comes to just these days, you know, remote work's becoming more and more common, uh, hybrid work, you know, arrangements. Some organizations are you know really fully in office, and there's kind of a a lot of different variety. And and something about you know a lot of our kind of commercial enterprises, especially, is they often kind of pick their locations based off of what best you know serves their operating model. Whether they want to, you know, be a little bit more remote, be a little more hybrid, they can kind of pick the right geography for that. Or as a government, they are where they are, you know, in a lot of cases, you know, whether it's a a big metropolitan area or a more more rural part of a state. Um, how how how are you seeing kind of the human human capital side of things throughout all different types and shapes and sizes of governments when it comes to like remote work versus on-site? How are they navigating that?
Speaker 02Yeah, it's uh it's really an interesting question, and and I've I've been pretty fascinated to see how different organizations do that. And obviously, you know, the COVID pandemic kind of spurred a lot of this stuff in terms of remote work. I I think that, you know, as a as a culture and society, remote work has become very common. Um, there are still some governments that um you know require people to come in the office five days a week. And I think that those organizations have some difficulties in terms of attacking, attracting and uh retaining talent. But what I've seen majority is that um a number of organizations do offer hybrid schedules or flexible schedules. And I think the importance with remote work is just ensuring that constant communication. Um, generally speaking, people are able to do their jobs with a laptop and um have access to the tools. So performance can still be monitored from an output perspective, but I think just ensuring that um you have those formal touch points, especially as a team, um, it's important that if you do have a remote worker, that they really feel connected and not like they're sitting on an island.
Speaker 01Right. Yeah. And you know, we talked a lot about just the the services too of of a government, just ensuring that whatever operating model we have and arrangements with our employees that we're delivering the services. And and from that sense, I kind of want to start getting into the the next theme that you outlined, which is you know service delivery. And and so um that kind of makes me think too, tying the two together, just like the uh, you know, um off offshoring versus onshoring or in-house versus contracting out, or you know, our employees versus contractors, just the kind of the different types of arrangements you see in the business world in terms of of leveraging our people and then also kind of you know according and having some other uh uh uh resources available to us when and where necessary. What does that typically look like in the government space? Are they typically doing it all in-house or are there oftentimes uh contractual relationships they have with outside parties? You know, what what what what's kind of some best practices there?
Speaker 02Yeah, I I think I I'm a firm believer that you know government should focus on government. And uh obviously with that comes a large amount of support services needed to do that. But I think if the you know organization as a whole can really focus on its direct services and where possible, leverage outside expertise to fill some of those roles, such as you know, custodial, um fleet maintenance, things of that nature. Um so you do have a hybrid in terms of mini-governments performing all services internally. You do have um governments that um do um more of a mixed bag, and you also have some smaller governments that largely outsource a lot of their operations to private private companies.
Speaker 01That makes sense. So the kind of the common, you know, kind of default state would be a lot of the services we were offering as a government, our in-house people, our employees, we're really doing that and for some like administrative tasks. Oftentimes that's where maybe some more uh like some finance-oriented functions or you know, different types of consulting arrangements, that kind of stuff, look to the the outside for that. That makes sense. Now, what about like the concepts of like you know, centralization, decentralization? Kind of talk me through some of those and how that relates to government. Yeah, absolutely. And and I think the you know, kind of the the debate between centralization and decentralization uh uh has been going on for a while. And and it predominantly relates to back office services. So I'd say specifically within uh finance and HR. And so there there certainly are pros and cons to centralization and decentralization, but from an efficiency and from a standardization and from a governance perspective, I think it's better to have a more centralized model. Um just kind of giving you a couple of examples. You may have a centralized HR where all the functions are contained within the HR department, and the HR department governs HR policies and procedures for other other departments. And within HR, you may have liaisons, but all those people report to the HR director. Um in a decentralized model, you may have HR, but then you may have individual people within each department that are responsible for HR tasks, but they report up to the department director. And so with that, again, pros and cons. Um pros may be that you have direct access in a department when you center when you decentralize. Uh, but a con would be that you really have less standardization and less enforcement over enterprise governance. So like the reporting lines is really kind of where some of the big differences happen. I imagine that that's pretty common in technology too, like IT, kind of a centralized government-wide information technology department. But technology is very important for every individual department. So I can see them also having their own IT resources. But then we're what are the reporting lines? Does that does the IT person in finance report to the lead of finance, or does the IT person in finance report to the lead of government-wide IT?
Speaker 02T hat's right.
Speaker 01Right.
Speaker 02That's right, exactly.
Speaker 01Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can definitely say how that can apply to a lot of different functions throughout the government. And then that just kind of applies these bigger picture things about centralization versus decentralization. And so I guess the kind of the best practice we want to work toward is an element of like healthy centralization, just to, as you said, have consistent policies, consistent practices. We're all following the same playbook. What we're doing is institutionalized in our government, you know, as part of our culture. Um, but there is an opportunity for them to, you know, be able to serve a particular department's needs when and where they're different than others.
Speaker 02Exactly. That's exactly right.
Speaker 01Now, how how does that play into kind of the the next thing you talked about too was business processes?
Speaker 02Yeah.
Speaker 01You know, we're we're kind of getting into just different departments and their unique ways of operating, but we want to have standardization more practical. So so I guess from a from a business process perspective, you know, how can we best equip our government?
Speaker 02Yeah, I I think that's great. I I think what we've seen from an industry trend has really related to um use of automation and even the use of AI. And so my definition of a business process is a workflow or end-to-end you know, step-by-step uh process flow of accomplishing a common objective. And so with that, it you really need to look at what are who are all the players, who are the stakeholders, what are all the dependencies and um touch points that may flow from this process flow. And so I think the goal really is to ensure that you can provide whatever objective you're looking to as efficiently and effective as possible. And I think that automation certainly has helped. Uh, there still are a number of governments that heavily leverage paper, and obviously that's more prone to human error. And so the more automation, the more um use of technology for workflows, the the better. And I think also it drives not only consistency, but drives accountability in terms of having um, you know, automatic approvals. The uh approvals may be you know saved so you can go back from a compliance perspective. And so there's lots of benefits to automation.
Speaker 01Yeah, well, and that's you folks who follow this podcast series know that you know Brandon loves to try and solve problems with technology. So I really appreciate that when we're talking business process, you're you know, focused on automation because that's something too, when it comes to software automation, especially. You know, and a lot of our listeners who have listened to our series notice how we've talked about, you know, you know, software automation being taking a business process and breaking it down into tasks, and then seeing how those tasks can be done by some type of software, you know, and then stringing those softwares together so each task after task after task is performed by some type of software automation to where now the whole business process is. And so I can definitely understand how in the business world that's something that when it comes, you know, margins, margins, margins of the focus, there's always a big opportunity for there and efficiencies. But in government as well, just to optimize our practice. And it's not just the perspective of trying to improve a margin. Like you said, it reduces the opportunities for error.
Speaker 02That's right.
Speaker 01And then sometimes too, it does give us a good sort of audit log per se, like you talked about for the approvals, you know, because it's all electronic, it's all there in the record. You can go back and see, you know, which when we have good controls, good records around such things, it just protects all of us.
Speaker 02That's exactly right. And I think automation, you know, certainly when done correctly, is very much a value-added benefit. And, you know, for the people that's you know, worry about automation taking their jobs, uh, I really haven't seen that. What I have seen is the use of automation freeing up people's time so that they can do more value-added um roles and responsibilities as opposed to just kind of rote tasks. And I and I think the another quip for you, um, you know, the the ATM didn't replace the bank teller. They're still there, right? They're doing more value added things today.
Speaker 01Exactly. Usually the best candidates for software automation from a from a process perspective are the the boring process.
Speaker 02That's right. That's exactly right.
Speaker 01It's my experience.
Speaker 02For sure.
Speaker 01Well, I guess are there any kind of you know, you know, common processes you've come across that. You know, are are really kind of common areas of inefficiencies you you've seen at different governments.
Speaker 02Yeah, so I I think you know, if if you've heard me kind of present before, you know, finance and HR are dear to my heart. Because I I think that every decision has a fiscal impact and every decision has a people impact. And so from a finance perspective with automation, I've seen a lot with um accounts payables. Um so in terms of you know receiving invoices, paying invoices, having the automatic workflow, and really, you know, not passing paper from department to department, um, requesting approvals makes makes a big difference.
Speaker 01Yeah, yeah, definitely. Just kind of the how our vendors and suppliers are providing us invoicing invoices, having a good kind of incoming channel for that in an automated fashion, and then kind of propping those up for coding and review and approval and passing them across departments, and then getting them into our accounting system, recorded and posted, and then routing them all the way through to the disbursement process to where maybe we can even get to the electronic process. So from the moment a vendor or supplier sends us an invoice until we're ready to have the outflow of resources, an entire electronic automated process that goes through proper coding, approval, and documentation. Is that kind of what you're envisioning? And seeing as some of the best and bringing up, yeah, that's that's a I agree, that's an awesome candidate for automation.
Speaker 02There's even you know the use of AI within that in terms of you know doing initial scans and ensuring that vendor or invoices have all the proper information that that that's required. And and so I think the you know, I I see AI as an accelerator, um, not necessarily something to fully rely on, but it accelerates the process and it brings exceptions to to the user.
Speaker 01Well, especially when we have, you know, we have a budget to follow.
Speaker 02That's right.
Speaker 01You know, and and you know, we have procurement policies in place. And so that's something too. The technologies, you know, earlier you mentioned can, you know, oper, you know, to the extent we can use technology correctly, it can reduce opportunities for human error. Because those are areas where it can be hard to make sure we're doing everything we need to be doing from all those perspectives, right?
Speaker 02Absolutely. And I think just going back to the two examples within human resources, you know, the often a person's initial touch point may be through the recruiting process and leveraging automation to help with you know submitting applications, submitting resumes, things of that nature is really important. And I think not only is it more efficient, but it provides a positive first impression.
Speaker 01Yeah, absolutely. But our employees still have their place.
Speaker 02Without a doubt.
Speaker 01The bank teller is still there.
Speaker 02Exactly.
Speaker 01Now, now what about just other like are you seeing any trends or or kind of emerging technologies or anything that you know government should make sure to pay attention to? Maybe it's just you know, you've you've been talking about AI, maybe the the answer to that question is just AI, AI, AI. But I guess you know, what from your perspective, is it AI or you know, what what do governments need to make sure they're keeping a pulse on from a from a tech perspective?
Speaker 02So I I think two two things. And I think one, um certainly, you know, the attitude and willingness to you know ensure that governments are being aware of current trends, which which which certainly is, you know, AI is one of those. But I think with that comes responsibility. And so it's really having the right IT governance throughout the organization to ensure that AI is being used either consistently and and within defined parameters.
Speaker 01Yeah, because that's definitely when we're talking about technologies like AI that are just inherently data technologies, we need to have good data governance.
Speaker 02Without a doubt.
Speaker 01And I think that's especially true when it comes to governments because I know the governments that I rely on day after day, like they have a lot of my information. I entrust a lot to them, you know, and they realize that, but to the extent they're leveraging these technologies, I appreciate that you're advising them to keep an eye on things like privacy and security and just all the different data governance considerations.
Speaker 02Without a doubt.
Speaker 01Now, and that that also ties in too to on the front end when we're talking about kind of human capital, human resources, training, upskilling. You know, you mentioned monitoring trends. I think that's probably just something where these two things tie together of just how are we empowering our people to make sure they're out there keeping, keeping tabs on what's happening.
Speaker 02That's exactly right.
Speaker 01And talking to people like you.
Speaker 02Yeah. Oh, thanks, Brandon. I I think that kind of goes back to that employee culture and and really positive tone at the top to really encourage and foster innovation. And I think that um, you know, whether it's through additional training or kind of self-discovery, it there really needs to be that environment where um people want to be leaders and new adopters of emerging technology. Um, you know, a lot of governments take the position that we want to wait and see, and we'll kind of let the private sector figure it out, and then we'll adopt it. And there's there's certainly nothing wrong with that. But I I think each government needs to really have an open mind and an investment um when it comes to innovation.
Speaker 01Yeah, absolutely. And in a lot of cases, the technology is there, it is proven, it's out there, it's just kind of being creative on how can we kind of reconfigure, repurpose it to apply to us.
Speaker 02That's right.
Speaker 01And and from that lens, I guess when it comes to looking into a new technology, whether it's an emerging fancy technology like AI, or even just something that we're all relying on, like our ERP system.
Speaker 02Yeah.
Speaker 01I guess, you know, are there are there best practices that you encourage governments to navigate in terms of kind of seeing what's on the market and bringing in the right tool for us?
Speaker 02Yeah, absolutely. I I've unfortunately I've seen a lot of governments think that the a new ERP is gonna solve all their problems. And, you know, certainly ERPs have different abilities to be configured or not as much if they're cloud-based. But I think the important thing is to really define your business requirements and your business needs before going out and soliciting an ERP. You want your technology to work for you. You don't want to work for your technology. And so I think doing the upfront legwork is uh is a key to really finding the right solution.
Speaker 01So it's not just hearing the best sales pitch.
Speaker 02Not at all. And there's some good ones out there.
Speaker 01There are some good ones out there. We all know every demo, like everything looks like it works perfectly or.
Speaker 02Without a doubt.
Speaker 01So I like that. So so kind of step one is is it sounds like are the identifying and and and clarifying our business requirements. What do we need from this system? Then looking at the different systems that are out there, you know, and then hearing the sales pitches and kind of aligning them to ours. And then, you know, I guess anytime we're we're looking through something, you know, change management comes to play too. So I imagine we need to kind of have some pull out some best practices from the playbook on things like change management and project management.
Speaker 02Without a doubt. I I think unfortunately, change management is something that often gets cut from the budget. And uh it's it's in my opinion, one of the most critical aspects to an implementation. So ensuring that you've got the right change, change management, you've got project champions, you have the right project managers are all crucial.
Speaker 01Absolutely. Perfect, perfect. Love it. Now, the I also wanted to talk to you, David, about just like uh like kind of the the customer service side of things. You know, when we think about our governments and the essential services that they're offering, you know, we are we are citizens, we're residents, but we're also customers.
Speaker 02That's right.
Speaker 01So so is that something that governments you work with, do they do they think in those terms?
Speaker 02You know, I I think the more progressive or the more leading governments certainly do. And, you know, with that, they've taken a lens of, you know, trying to understand the customer experience. So, really, you know, how does somebody go about getting a building permit? How does somebody go about paying their water bill? How easy is it? How secure is it? How efficient? And so I think that leading governments have really tried to balance efficiency with providing exceptional customer service. And you know, speaking of customer service, I my perspective is that there's really two lenses. You have certainly your external customers, and so those are your citizens, your stakeholders, your users, but then you also have internal customers. So, you know, somebody in HR Finance is cutting paychecks or helping to process payroll, and somebody in purchasing is, you know, buying goods and services for the organization. So you have internal customers as well, which I think is are just as important as the external.
Speaker 01Well, as you're talking through it, it just kind of made me realize that everything we've been talking about is kind of leading to customer service, you know, from from the the the training and upskilling of our people to the business processes we have and interdepartmental, you know, uh kind of structures and and chain channels of communication, the technologies we have brought in and implemented, you know, all kind of leads to that smooth customer experience. Because as you said, a customer is not just somebody outside the organization, it's also the department next door.
Speaker 02That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
Speaker 01Now, are are you I guess have you encountered like any common barriers to smooth services or accessibility or anything of that nature?
Speaker 02So I I think you know, certainly resources and and funding can can contribute to that. But I think it and you're exactly right, all the things that we're talking about kind of go together. Um what I've seen is unfortunately, you know, lack of training, lack of specifically customer service training and and de-escalation training. I think all those things are really important when dealing with the public that can help ensure a smooth transition, but yet don't always occur.
Speaker 01Yeah, absolutely. Well, David, this has been a fantastic conversation. I guess before I let you go, any any last thoughts you have on just kind of a key thing for for the leaders of governments to have top of mind or trends you're seeing out there, or just kind of any any last thoughts you have for our audience.
Speaker 02Yeah, I I think you know, key key thing is really don't be afraid to fail. There's a lot of proven things out there that you know may work for some organizations, but may not specifically work for yours. And make sure that you're taking the time and effort to really tailor it to your needs. Um in order to be successful, there's gonna be some some trips and some bumps, and that's okay. As long as we're focused on a common goal, um, governments continue to thrive and not only provide those essential services, but provide them well.
Speaker 01Well, and that can be a hard posture to have to not be afraid to fail when we are a very public role. You know, we don't really fail in private. But we have to, though. You're right. Like we have to try, we have to experiment, we have to push a little bit, you know. And and I think, you know, so long as everyone knows we're working toward having just an efficiently well-operating government, then it'll give us some some grace. So, David Roberts, thank you so much for the conversation. I really enjoyed it. And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. If you have any follow-up questions about the considerations we discussed today or any other financial or business considerations you're navigating, please don't hesitate to contact us at www.mjcpa.com.
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