In The Harbor
The Podcast where sports, leisure, and finance meet
In The Harbor
#19 Jenn Lee
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Join Jason Johns & Scott Lindsay as they sit down with President/CMO of Travel Planners International and Vacation Planners to discuss trends in travel, the evolution of the travel advisor and the role TPI is playing for travel advisors across the country.
Jenn over 30 years of experience building, managing, and training sales teams for Fortune 500 companies like Ryland Homes and Premiere Farnell. Her natural talent for elevating companies to the next level began in the early 80’s as one of Marriott Vacation Club’s first employees where she cut her teeth working with the company in its’ infancy and helping it rapidly grow.
Software Support, Inc. was next on Lee’s list, working in a fast-paced entrepreneurial environment alongside the owner as they developed the first-ever, 24-hour technical support company for the emerging personal PC market. Fast forward to 2008, Lee left the corporate grind behind and launched her consulting and speaking business on a mission to help America’s entrepreneurs make good decisions with where they spend their time and resources, “Working with crazy, sleep deprived entrepreneurs is what gets me out of bed at 5:00am every morning!”
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All right. Welcome back to In the Harbor, where we sit at the intersection of sports, leisure, and finance. And Scott, today we're talking travel, but not in the book it online and hope for the best sense.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely not. This episode today is going to help highlight how travel has evolved from a transaction to a strategy, experiences, access, risk management, all the things people don't think about when they hear the words travel agent.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Our guest today has spent decades building and scaling sales organizations, working with brands like Marriott early on. And now she's leading one of the most influential platforms supporting modern travel advisors.
SPEAKER_01Today we're joined by Jen Lee, president of Travel Planners International. And this conversation really reframed how we think about the business of travel and why the best advisors are more relevant than ever.
SPEAKER_00Whether you're planning your next trip, building a client-facing business, or just curious where travel trends are heading, this one's for you. Let's get it.
SPEAKER_04I am excellent. I'm really excited to be part and be in the harbor with y'all. Thank you for the invite.
SPEAKER_00I think we're gonna have a great conversation, and it's something everyone's familiar with. I mean, everyone looks at travel, aspires to travel to new places. So I think this will be fantastic.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. Let's get it started. I can talk all day about travel.
SPEAKER_00Perfect. That's exactly what we're gonna do. I think four or five hours. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_04I've got water.
SPEAKER_00We'll give you your day back. Uh so let's let's get into it. Let's just hear a little bit about your career arc, um, where you started, kind of what you did throughout the career, and then what led you back into travel.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, thank you, Jason. You know, it's interesting. I started my career in travel very um haphazardly. I was approached by a gentleman in Lakeland, Florida. I was working at a grocery store, and he came to me and said, Hey, Jen, my company was just purchased by a hotel chain, and they are looking for someone to call their Marriott Marquee members and invite them to something called Timeshare. Are you familiar with Timeshare? And growing up in Orlando, I knew exactly what timeshare was. And so I was the very first employee to jump on the phone calling marquee members, inviting them to Timeshare. And Marriott was the first hotel chain to jump into what they now refer to as the vacation club experience. Um, so from there, got married, had a child, moved around, made some bad choices in life, like who doesn't in their 20s, and um went through a variety of different careers, all around marketing, sales, training, really connecting consumers uh to products. And about 11 years ago, I ended up back in the travel industry through my consulting practice. So I've always worked with entrepreneurs or even entrepreneurs, those that work within an organization that want to treat their cubicle, their space as an entrepreneur. But I really love that entrepreneurial spirit of I've got an idea, I can solve a problem, um, let's go. So yeah, now I am in the travel advisor space uh in the travel industry, and I couldn't be happier. And this is where I will retire. So began my career in travel and I'm now ending my career in travel in about 10 years.
SPEAKER_00Oh, funny how you found your way back. Must be a true passion.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_00And I I like the intrapreneur line. You know, most of our audience are financial advisors and uh they see themselves in a very similar way.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Of course. Yeah, it doesn't matter if you work for somebody else, like as an employee or a franchise or a contractor or what have you. You've got to own your space. And folks that have that mentality um all share very similar characteristics. And those characteristics are very much um in line with solving problems, consultative. Um, they wanna, they really want to master what they're naturally good at, passionate for, and most need guidance along the way. And that's really where I spent the majority of my career is paying attention to what their needs were and then matching it with what the consumer needs are, the what the public needs, what are the problems that can be solved uh by that entrepreneur or that intrapreneur who's really taking ownership of their area. And I love it. It's exciting. There's a lot of it, there's a lot of really passionate people, especially in the financial, uh, y'all have the very similar passion, which is to help people um, you know, gain the most out of their hard work, right? Whether it be uh leveraging the money that they're making to ensure that they've got a comfortable future, a comfortable current, um, and then really just leveraging that hard work, doing something, maximizing their life, maximizing that life experience. And that's what travel does better than anything.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. So, you know, I'm curious if we, you know, now you're you're president of Travel Planners International and Vacation Planners, as well as chief marketing officer. So did that early stint with Marriott teach you anything about brand loyalty or or what that means?
SPEAKER_04Great question. A hundred percent. You know, when we talk to travel advisors now and they talk about trying to connect with influencers or you know, how do I grow my business? How do I grow my sphere of influence? I always share with them, I say you have to ask yourself the question, who already has a relationship with my next best customer? Because when somebody already has loyalty and a relationship with them, um, they want to expand their reach within that individual's life. And so if you go back, what I learned from Marriott was Marriott said, we already have a relationship with people with millions of individuals. They trust our brand because they either go on vacation or business or just an overnighter through our product. What else is it that those that my customer, what else are they experiencing in their life where I could possibly be part of that story? And that's where loyalty really starts to stick. When you become part of, when you as a brand are able to become part of somebody's overall story, you're not just selling a product, you're not just selling a specific service, you are now part of their story. And that's really where loyalty um wins, because quite frankly, people can usually get things less expensively somewhere else. They can find a better deal, they can, they can, you know, find someone who's nicer to them for a short period of time. But when you're really ingrained in someone's life and you become part of it and then they are proud, I'm a Delta Airlines person. So I'm Delta proud all day long. They've really ingrained themselves in me. It doesn't matter if they mess up. I'm loyal to them because um they've been a big part of my joy in travel from an airline perspective. And so if they tell me to connect with Uber, I'm gonna connect with Uber. If they tell me to stay at a Hilton, I'm gonna stay at a Hilton because not only am I getting the points, but I know that they're taking, they are, they're they're taking good care of me. Um, really long answer to that very short question. But yes, uh it immediately taught me if you've already got a relationship with somebody, how can you leverage uh that relationship and maximize and add additional value into their lives? And that's what really good brands do. You be they become part of your life, your infrastructure of your life.
SPEAKER_00You know what it's funny when I think about my own experience of being Delta loyal and then flying like American, and I'm like, this is awful. What am I doing?
SPEAKER_04And you feel like you're cheating. Like, I'm so sorry, Delta, but you don't fly to Providence straight from the Dominican Republic, which Scott knows I just had to do not too long ago when I had to fly American, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is not gonna be good. Uh, but it was actually okay. Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It worked out better than our not direct flight on Delta that we spent an extra night sleeping in the airport in Atlanta. So in that instance, I think you won out.
SPEAKER_04I know, I did, I did. But um, yeah, I think I I know for sure that was the first time I had experienced a brand that um that really branched out. And and you see it in almost every industry, you know. If you look in the clothing industry, you know, they might have started out as gap, but then they realized that, you know, their customer also wanted something that was less expensive, so they opened up Old Navy, and then they realized their customer wanted something that was more business focused, so they opened up Banana Republic. I don't know if that's their true story, but that's how I look at it. Those are three different brands, all owned by the same people that I know I can trust. Um, so when I see multiple brands from the same, you know, entity, I there's an automatic trust factor there.
SPEAKER_01So from your time at Marriott and obviously your background experience as you transitioned back into travel, what was it about TPI that drew you in? And then when you got there, what were some of the familiar things that you saw going on at TPI?
SPEAKER_04The passion for the entrepreneur. Uh, Ken Gagliano, who's one of the owners, said to me, Your job or our job here at TPI is to help the individual advisor who's working from home look like a million-dollar rock star. Um, we provide them with services and technology and training and access and support, things that they couldn't get on their own. And but that was the very first thing he said. Second was it's a relationship business. This is really you're developing a relationship with an individual who has launched a business, a passion project that they're trying to make profitable, which many do, many make lots of money in the travel industry. It is a very well-paid profession if you're dedicated and you make good decisions. Um, you know, this is a relationship business. And if you can master that relationship and provide them that service in a unique way individually, then we're going to be successful. And I'm I'm really proud of uh the what we've accomplished just in the last 10 years, 11 years. When I came into the industry, um, I remember that the travel advisor had been around for a really long time, but they were referred to in this particular uh venue as ICs, like, oh, they're independent contractors, there's ICs, they're home-based, like as if they were, you know, homebound with ankle bracelets that beeped when they left the dining room table, you know, like they were allowed to escape, you know. So it was like, no, that's not what they are. They're entrepreneurs. And over the last 10 years, through a lot of yelling and screaming, not just from myself, but from others and from really smart individuals entering into the industry, it has now become a, you know, a profession that people are starting to understand and want to get into because travel's been around a long time. Travel advisors have been around a long time. Uh, they used to be called travel agents. Now they're called advisors because of their consultative uh process. But yeah, I mean, when I came in, that's that that's what really got me excited. And I closed my small business consulting practice down and said, I can either impact, you know, the hundred clients that I'll have this year or I can impact tens of thousands of independent uh business owners across an entire industry. And so have a look at that.
SPEAKER_01It it it is amazing, and we've talked a little bit about the parallels between what we do in our world with financial advisors and in the asset management industry in your world. Uh a couple things that you just said tie those in again. One, it's a relationship business. Uh we always joke, you know, knee to knee face to face, getting in front of people, having that deeper connection. But you you use the word trust a couple times, and that's one of the things that we talk about with advisors is no one just wants to be the financial advisor. They want to be the trusted advisor. Right. And and I I see that similarity at TPI, which is a little deeper, right? Getting down in under that. Um you know, just the parallels continue. I'm sure I'll have a few more to highlight as we roll through.
SPEAKER_04Well, sure. And you in in the financial services world, you know, people are trusting you with their their money, right? With what they've earned. And they are looking for guidance from you to be able to meet goals later on in life. I know I do that with my financial advisor. And they ask me, they ask questions that you don't normally ask yourself. And I think that's also another thing about travel and the advisor role is the advisor is there to ask questions you wouldn't know to ask yourself. And I'm not talking about do you need two queen beds or a king bed? You know, do you want a balcony or a suite? They're asking questions that are more emotionally motivated because people buy on emotion and justify logically. And so it's it's it's it's not about the bits and bites, right? It's about, you know, the hugs and kisses, you know, it's about really getting in there and understanding. And when you get, when you experience a really great financial services person or asset management person who cares about you and takes the time to ask those questions and get you thinking, you're immediately going to connect with that person because they know, you know, I know as the consumer, the customer, that you have my best interest in mind. You're not asking me questions that are with your best interest in mind. Um, and really that's that's how you develop a relationship and a trust. Build rapport, gain trust, ask questions, connect connectivity.
SPEAKER_00I I I would agree, and I would say a similar parallel is the travel advisor is likely dealing with a couple or a family, and they might not know exactly what they're looking for. They might be looking for something completely different. And it's probably helps them have the conversation with each other about what each one wants and what they're willing to sacrifice.
SPEAKER_04Sure, sure. It kind of starts the smartest advisors start with questions that are similar to like what's motivating you to call me about Alaska, versus, you know, tell me, you know, are you are you celebrating something special, you know, during this trip? You know, that's not what what's motivating you to ask me about Alaska. You're gonna get the real story. Well, my dad has always wanted to go to Alaska and he's getting up in age, and we think this might be his last big trip. So we want to make sure this trip to Alaska, which he's always wanted, is not only just checked off his list, but that it's curated in a way that takes into consideration his age, his mobility, um, the very specific things that are exciting to him on paper about Alaska. How can we bring those to life? Versus a salesperson or a travel agent would be like, give me the dates, what's your budget? They're asking all those logical questions. Again, a similarity to what y'all do in your industry. You don't say, you know, how much money do you want at the end? Uh, you know, what year do you want to retire? And how much money do you want? I'm I'm assuming you ask other questions. I know mine did, uh, asked other questions that met my goals, like really helped me think about it. And then, Jason, in this case, you know, with travel advisors, what they want, what what a couple wants in October when they're in their 30s can be completely different than what the wife wants the next vacation with her girlfriends, you know, they might travel completely differently. So it's not a one size fits all. I know they always want to stay at this type of resort because it changes based on what the scenario is. And how often do we utilize travel as a way to connect with our loved ones or to meet new people or to escape completely? I mean, we get to say all of it. Travel does like it meets all those needs in various ways. And so you have to ask those questions every single time. You have to really understand the story every single time. That's what a travel advisor does. They're not, they're not, you know, glorified Google. They're not glorified booking engines. That's not what they do at all.
SPEAKER_01No, the the best advisors, regardless of industry, have one key trait, right? And you touched on it, and it's their ability to get to the need behind the need.
SPEAKER_03Right?
SPEAKER_01Ask more questions, develop a little bit more depth, right? I think a lot of people, when they get into any type of role of that, they get the first answer and they jump all over it versus tell me more. Um, tell me a little bit. Because it's always that third or fourth thing a little bit further down the line that the light bulb blows off. And uh and people, Scott, so true.
SPEAKER_04Until you have a really clear picture, you haven't answered, you haven't asked enough questions. Correct. You have to have it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00The old adage, be curious. 100% that definitely applies. Now, you said something interesting earlier, so this was 10 or 12 years ago, and you were talking about the idea of work from home, and you know, everyone's it had a negative connotation. And now post-COVID, it has a much different connotation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, it it does. What happened in the travel industry for those that are listening that you know are still saying that travel advisors still exist? Like, I'm sure there's somebody listening, like, I didn't even know there were travel advisors. There have been travel advisors for like a hundred years. What happened, Jason, was um when the airlines decided not to pay commission on airfare any longer, that's what the majority of the travel advisor made money off of. So a lot of them had to close down their brick and mortar. Do y'all in your neighborhood, and maybe you do still to this day, but do you remember there used to be travel agencies in your neighborhood? They had like the red awning, and then you'd see all the flyers in the window. Right and then you'd walk in.
SPEAKER_00Brick and mortar location. You have all the pamphlets you go through. Yep.
SPEAKER_04Yep. There was an expected consumer experience. The consumer it had an assumption of a consumer experience that felt comfortable to them. You walk in, maybe a little bell rang on the door because somebody was in the back, mimeographing something. Boy, I'm I'm I'm really showing my age, mimeographing something. Um, uh, you know, and and there were all the brochures, and you would sit down and you would sit with an advisor and they would ask you all those questions. So, fast forward when uh the airline stopped paying commissions, those brick and mortars went away. And when that happened, a lot of travel agencies went out of business. Those that stayed in business, right, were able to maintain their client base and keep that exposure up. But that took like 20 years for a lot of the consumers to realize advisors still existed because they couldn't physically see them because there's not that physical awning that says Joe's travel, right? So that's our challenge now is helping people see that. And so when people went home, they were like, oh, they're not a real travel agent, right? They're passing out a business card. They would back in the day, Scott, I'm not sure if you remember or if Michelle remembers, people would pass out business cards and say, just book your travel through my website. Like there was no consultation that has changed over the last 10 years. Now it's gone back to, okay, I get it. This is a service that's being provided that's curating the right experience from for myself or my family or my friends. Did I answer your question? I just realized I went on off a tangent.
SPEAKER_01I can tend to I think somewhere in there was the answer for sure.
SPEAKER_04Thank you, Scott. Thank you for giving me positive uh affirmations.
SPEAKER_00But the the one thing I was gonna add on that is you know, work from home has changed a bit, but also travel has changed a lot in the post-COVID era. So I was curious about what kind of what you've seen and how it ties into work from home about what people are looking for.
SPEAKER_04So people um when they're working to a couple of things. Uh one's like five or six things, quite frankly. Post-COVID, a lot of people are able to work remote, right? Which means they have a more flexible schedule. We're seeing a lot of folks um traveling while they're working, right? We see a lot of folks that take their kids out of school and homeschool them through the world, right? The kids now are with them and they're traveling. Somebody's got a remote job, they know to log in for their eight hours, and then after that, people in RVs traveling the United States or flying over to Australia and staying over there for months at a time and just traveling around because they can work remote. We're starting to see folks that they don't think it's so weird that somebody's Working from home any longer. They're like, oh yeah, that makes total sense. Where can we meet? Um, so that stigma's gone away. Uh, we're also from a consumer standpoint, you know, everyone thought revenge travel was gonna peak. And revenge travel did peak because we really missed each other and we missed traveling. But what's happened is through the pandemic, um, I I can only speak for Americans, but through the pandemic, Americans have said, no longer is the things in my home the most important purchase. I've I was in my home too long, right? Like the big screen TV, how much bigger does it need to be? Now they're like, I want to, I want to reconnect with the world. I want to reconnect, I want to escape my home if necessary. You know, a lot of solo travel is huge. People who are married, happily married, or have have a spouse, but want to travel by themselves. Like they want to just get out and travel by themselves. So post-pandemic, we really recognize the importance of connection with one another. And I don't think we'll ever go back. It's not a revenge travel thing. It's not like I've got all this pent-up need to get out of the house. It's I really like being out of the house. I like meeting other people. I'm curious about what's going on in the world. I want to know more about that and let that be my lecture or versus the news. You know, I was during the COVID, I always said, like, you know, turn off the news and just book a cruise, right? Like just get off the news. And instead, let's let's reconnect with one another.
SPEAKER_01So as part as part of that, Jen, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off if you needed to finish a thought. Um talk a little bit about how what you kind of touched on it, but vacation has become much more about experience. Yes. Uh, and having experience and shared experiences, right? Which I think is a is a little bit of a shift uh from the marketing side. So maybe talk a little bit about what TPI is seeing and how you guys are handling that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, every year there's definitely new trends that are coming out. And and and I don't really, I'm not a big believer in the word trend, but I think it's more of an awakening. Like right now, I mean, there was a time where ancestry.com first came out in Life 365 or whatever that other one is called. I can't remember. One, two, three, I can't remember the name of it. But everyone wanted to do an ancestry travel, right? They wanted to go back and see their roots from their great-great-great-grandparents in Italy and Germany. So ancestry travel, really getting to our roots was really big. Now we're starting to see nostalgic travel where people are wanting to go back to places that they traveled to maybe as a child, or they're finding pictures uh in their parents' homes. My uh father-in-law just passed away a couple of years ago and we purchased the family home in Alabama, and I'm unearthing vacation pictures or pictures where they did things, and I want to go to those locations and feel what they felt at the time. So nostalgic travel is out there. Wellness travel, and it's way past yoga at this point, right? Let's not reike and yoga, but wellness is disconnect. I need to find a place where I don't have Wi-Fi access. Like you have to force me. You need to send me someplace where there is no Wi-Fi so that I can't get online, a true disconnect. Uh, that's why transatlantic cruises are really uh popular, even though they have Wi-Fi. But transatlantic is really popular because there's no stops, right? All you're doing is just sleeping until you wake up and you're you're enjoying the shows or you're listening to our lecturer or you're playing, you know, chess with a new with a new friend. Um, that's why cruising is so popular because you get a chance to kind of curate your own experience on board every single day. So it's really that curation of a unique experience to you. A lot of the land vacations now, guided vacations are becoming popular again, where it's maybe 20 people traveling together and they're going to go truffle hunting together. And it's curated through a travel advisor and maybe a tour operator that puts something together that you couldn't experience on your own. You might be able to Google it on Instagram and go there, but you can't get into that place. You can't hire the dog to go truffle hunting with you. You can't get those experiences. So it's all those unique experiences that immersive experiences that people are really uh craving uh these days and really hyper-personalized to their very specific uh desires of what that experience is. That's what we're saying.
SPEAKER_00And I think that that translates nicely into the role of the modern travel advisor and what they provide. Like if we even think back to the genealogical trips or ancestry trips, or even you know, the truffle hunting, like imagine how daunting that would be to set out and plan on your own when you have no familiarity. Like, say you're going to Denmark and you know nothing. Like, imagine all the blogs you're gonna read, what you're gonna get wrong, the stress that goes along with that, and then the absolute spending of time trying to facilitate it on your own. Like you really need help.
SPEAKER_04Right. And how disappointing is that when you come back and then you read the follow-up blog and you didn't go to that one castle that every you know, that new place, or you didn't go to the one, you know, um, you know, pub that so-and-so uh read his first published book in, right? Because you didn't know about it, because you don't know to Google that, because you didn't know that would be of interest to you until you got there, and now it's too late. And so now you got to go back again, right? So the wasted time, the effort. And Jason, you just said something we see a lot of people are like, I like doing my research. Great, do your research, let's work together. Travel advisors work with you. But why are you on your vacation working? Like making sure the family gets on the train on time, making sure that the bags make it. And what if they don't make it, what's the next step? You know, all these things because I don't know. Um, well, Scott, you just talked about it. Travel, you know, has a lot of components to it that can go wrong, you know? And so the advisor is the one that sets you up for success, right? With with some redundancies there in many cases, and also tracking along the way. And if something does go wrong, which invariably it does, airspace just got closed down over Puerto Rico. If you ordered your, if you booked your travel on Expedia, there's nobody to call to get you rebooked and to guide you along the way. I mean, stuff happens, happens all the time. Um, or maybe you want to extend your stay because you're having a great time and you don't know how to, you know, make that happen at that resort. Uh, you don't know how to make the change with the airline. You know, these are these are things that are customized to to to the consumer, to the traveler now. And that's why travel advisors are more popular than ever. And most people think it's only popular with people who are not technology savvy. And probably for the last five years, the statistic has shown that the millennial and the Gen Xers use travel advisors more often than any other generation. And believe me, they know technology. They're doing it because they want the best possible experience in that seven days that they have off, that one week that they have off.
SPEAKER_01Well, and they they have grown up with an iPhone on their hand, right? Where we kind of had to adopt these things over time. So it's a little bit more uh free-flowing, I think, for a younger crowd to look at this as just a natural progression uh as you roll through. But uh, you know, you brought up something interesting, and and I I I look at it and think it's an acceleration point, which is that is exactly what COVID highlighted was the non-travel advisor vacation. Right? And you know, I know again, my wife had started her travel advisor in October of 2019. No better time to launch than three months before the world shut down. But the amount of business and uh clients that she was able to pick up because people didn't know how to deal with it, and it was a very confusing time, and you had all these rules and regulations around who got refunds, who got credits, what was the airline doing, the rolling timelines, right? So I I kind of look at that and think that was kind of a painful journey that provided exactly what you just said. I think that has helped put the travel advisor square in the crosshairs.
SPEAKER_04And not just as the problem solver, but also they realized this this travel advisor does a lot more than putting the pieces together. This advisor really it starts from the beginning in that consultative process, right? Because anybody can book a cruise, but you don't know that on that ship you want to be midship. You don't know that unless you've experienced it, right? Like they eat, sleep, drink, travel. Scott's what your wife, Michelle, spends a lot of time traveling herself so she can have firsthand experience with these different resorts and destinations and locations. And she's part of through TPI, because we have about 5,800 small business owners that are partnered with us, and then also through our franchise as well. She's got other people. If she hasn't been to, you know, Portugal, she's got 10 other people that she can talk to that she trusts that has 10 other advisors that understand the questions that she's asking and the needs of the consumer that she can tap into. And you just can't Google that. I'm sorry. You don't trust them. I mean, you just you can't you can't trust reviews. You just can't trust reviews that are on uh a resort's website. Do you know what I mean? Like you, you I was just at a at a conference called Focus Right, and Focus Right is very high-tech uh conference, and all the OTAs, online travel advice agencies are there, Priceline, Expedia, all of them, all of them were there. And they all sat there on stage and said, you know, we were talking about AI, and they were like, well, AI, you know, is it gonna replace you as an online travel agency? Or AI, is it gonna replace the travel advisor? And all the OTAs kept saying the same thing. Here's the thing consumers do not trust what the AI engine is sending back to them. As they're not trusting it so much that they're willing to put$50,000 behind that answer. They were like, we don't know what to do. You know, there's still what a human interaction. They want to talk to a human. They want to have, you know, they want to, they want to get advice and expertise from someone who's been there, done that. We just don't know what to do as an online travel agent. And I'm like screaming from the from the audience, it's called the travel advisor, ding dong. That is what it is. That's the like when you do your taxes on your own, you can only go so far. And then once you start adding components, you need to hire a professional. You know, just putting my money in my savings account is only gonna get me so far. At some point, I need to hire a professional to do it with me.
SPEAKER_00That's absolutely true. And and think about you know, queuing up Chat GPT when your flights are delayed, or you know, heaven forbid the the airspace is shut down. What's the answer gonna be? It's not gonna give you anything.
SPEAKER_04Well, and it's not all it's also not gonna send you an update. There's a story a friend of mine had where he booked everything on his own, um, even though his mother told him he should he should use his trap her travel advisor, and the ferry in Greece was canceled. Well, the ferry didn't he booked it online, they didn't send a notification. So he and the wife got dropped off by the Uber out in the middle of nowhere in Greece, you know, 30 minutes before the ferry, and the ferry never showed up, and now they're stuck out there. Like they didn't know what to do. Well, that's because a travel advisor would have known that it was canceled, right? Or would have reconfirmed or what have you. And so he was like, Oh my goodness, I will never travel again without utilizing a travel advisor, without hiring somebody who's also paying attention to what my needs are and and foreseeing some uh potential pitfalls along the way.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think that brings up a great subject too, because I'm probably guilty of some of these myself. But what would you say are the biggest misconceptions about the travel advisor?
SPEAKER_04That it's always going to cost you more money, that you're getting cheated from the price. Um, the other misconception is that um it's more of they don't have access to anything I don't have access to. So why would I you why would I pay more money for something I can just do myself? It goes back to the misconception of what money uh brings. So when we say hire a travel advisor, most cases when you're curating a you know an experience, a travel advisor is going to charge a fee of some sort, a consulting fee or a planning fee or a design fee, they're gonna charge some or a cancellation if you cancel, they do all this work because advisors, what most people don't realize is they don't get paid unless you book through them or you utilize them and you travel. You know, they they if something, if a travel advisor books something, we're in, you know, the beginning of the year, if they book something at the beginning of the year and you don't travel until December, they're not getting paid for that work until December, until you get trap, until you travel. So the consumer, and and that's not the consumer's fault for not knowing this, but the consumer doesn't understand how a travel advisor is compensated. And and and that's something on our industry, our industry needs to talk about this. Is how it works. Um, and and they go into it knowing that, but it's it's like you can't just call and say, let me pick your brain. You know, it's kind of like going into a dentist and saying, listen, can you just do some x-rays, check out my feelings, and do I now I don't want to pay you for it, but you just tell me, is this something that I need to, you know, invest in later on? You can't you can't do that. So the biggest misconception that it's gonna cost them more money, um, chances are in the long run, it saves you a ton of money and time. And time is money and frustration. Frustration is money, and you're going to get the best value for what you're really trying to accomplish. Uh, there's a saying out there, it's really expensive to go on a cheap vacation, just as it costs a lot of money to be poor. Because uh it costs a lot of money to be poor because you're not saving money, and so you have to spend more money to get the same thing that the guy next to you uh can get at a 6% interest, but because you have bad credit, it's 11% interest. So it costs a lot of money to be poor, and it costs it's very expensive to take a cheap vacation. Um, and it's it's the same in many ways. You know, you buy a car that's only gonna last you a few years because you only had$1,500 to spend on it. Guess what? You're gonna spend$3,000 trying to keep it fixed. You should have just paid$5,000 for a better car, you know.
SPEAKER_00Right, but those are those are all things you learn in hindsight. You know, looking back, you're like, oh shoot.
SPEAKER_01Well, again, and and the the end client is and again, correct me if I'm wrong, they've been conditioned to this. Right? My favorite is is you go and and my wife will go out and she'll book out a trip or somebody and and they'll go to Costco. Yeah, and they'll be like, oh, I saw it cheaper, and it's like read the fine print.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's right.
SPEAKER_01It's an interior cabin on the second deck with no window. Yeah, and it's a great deal, but by the time you upgrade that trip to the same exact experience, it's significantly more expensive. But it's it's a marketing piece. How do you guys combat that? Right.
SPEAKER_04Um, I uh it it's hard, Scott. It's hard. The way they people combat it is uh a lot of those questions ahead of time. Um, you know, someone who somehow or another is connected with an advisor kind of intuitively knows there's a reason I was told to call this person, right? Um, if if an advisor promotes and markets themselves as get the best deal through me, well, you're gonna get shopped because you just told them that it's gonna be the best deal. So of course I'm gonna shop around to make sure it's the best deal. But if they're marketing themselves as, listen, you got 10 days this year to go on vacation, we want to make sure those 10 days, you get the most value out of that 10 days. That's not necessarily the cheapest trip. That's ensuring that you're hitting everything that you want to do uh during that 10 days because you can't get those 10 days back. You know,$5,000 on a really crappy vacation is still$5,000. If you spent$7,500 and you had the most amazing vacation, you'd be willing to pay$12,000 for that same vacation. And because once you spend it, you've spent it. It's either you enjoyed what you spent, like you appreciated that you spent it, or you're really irritated that you spent it. Um, but you know, Scott, a lot of times advisors, let's talk money for a moment because let's it's a reality. A lot of times advisors have better deals than Costco. A lot of times they have access to um space and inventory, especially on cruises, that because their host agency like myself at TPI, we took out that space two and a half years ago when the price was, let's just say$1,500 for that cabin. And now the going rate is$2,700. Well, Costco's got it at$2,700. Maybe they've got it down to$22, but you know, Michelle and the travel advisor have it at$1,500. So there really are real savings that are out there when you partner with an advisor who has exclusives, who has negotiated uh better opportunities, onboard credits or spa credits. Um, I know with TPI we're partnered with a consortia. So our advisors not only get whatever we negotiate at the TPI level, they also get to uh take advantage of what the partner, the travel brand has got out there and what the consortia. So they get to tap into three different areas. The consumer only has access to one, which is the the the the partner, the travel partner direct. So why wouldn't you? Also, your commission's built into the price automatically. So you're paying, if you're paying$1,700, it's because the cruise line has already factored in in case a travel advisor sells that cabin, they've already factored in that commission. So you're paying more without getting the service. So I think it's an education thing, Scott. It's a relationship thing. Can I invest my own money? Sure. Do I know if I'm doing a good job doing it? Hell no. I have no clue if I'm doing it right.
SPEAKER_01There's that relationship word again. Right. Right. The other one you said is.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that darn relationship word.
SPEAKER_01The one that you nailed, though, that is a certainly a direct correlation between our businesses is a value proposition. What do you get by working with me? Right. And it's not always a a basic thing, right? There's a lot more qualitative that goes into that.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I I would think being the trusted advisor across industries, obviously, word of mouth is going to be a huge component of growing your business.
SPEAKER_04And it's the story through that word of mouth, Jason, right? So in your industry, I'm sure when people are at a cocktail party and someone says, Hey, listen, I'm looking for a new, you know, financial partner. I'm not really happy with my current one. Somebody's going to say, What aren't you happy about? Well, I never hear from this person, or I'm not getting the return that I thought I was going to get. I'm sure there's one or two things that come up over and over again. It's probably a relationship, right? I never hear from them. They don't seem to listen. I'm getting a canned email. It's a disconnect of what the relationship's supposed to be like. In the travel business, what happens is when people love their travel advisor, that's all they do. They can't they can't shut up about them. Like, you got to call my travel advisor. My just like my hair. I how many people I've sent to my hairdresser? Because I look cute and she does a great job. And people go, I like your hair. And I'm like, well, then you got to call my girl Rachel, right? So it's that story how that makes me feel when I get to refer somebody. Because honestly, customers want to help people who've helped them that are part of their story. So when people say, you know, I don't like to ask for referrals or reviews, I'm like, shame on you, because the other person is looking for someone who had that same experience. Um, with reviews, it's It's and I'm I'm sure it's like this in financial services. You know, hey, I didn't save the first dime until I was 47 years old, and I was embarrassed to walk into my financial services office. Um, but my financial advisor didn't make me feel bad about not saving a dime until I was 47. Instead, they said, let's get to work, let's figure this out together. We're gonna put together a plan. That was a relay, that was a story that also resonates with how many other 47-year-olds who have not started a savings plan, who haven't invested the first dime. When you use that as a review, when you say, I this person did not make me feel less than, even though I felt less than and embarrassed, that I walked in with, you know,$40,000 max. And I was like, what can you do with this? How can you help me, you know, still retire at 65? Um, the good financial advisor says, We got you. We'll figure this out together. Might have to tighten your belt somewhere. We're coming up with a plan. Same thing with a travel advisor. When a family says, I have two teenagers that don't get along, and uh one likes to be on the on their phone all day long, and the other one likes to climb trees. Um, my husband likes mountains and I like the beach. Put together a trip for me. Well, a good travel advisor knows how to curate something that's gonna is gonna make everybody happy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. And I if I think about it, you know, the one thing that's interesting is a lot of the reviews and the the word of mouth spread for any of the advisors in the field likely comes. I I wonder if it increases. You probably have statistics on this when something bad, when something goes wrong.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00Just having that voice to talk to and that human to talk to on the phone to find a solution.
SPEAKER_04It's a it's a slippery slope because we certainly don't want advisors to be positioned as um just the heroes saving the day. Um, because that's just a small component, uh, if it's curated right, if it's crafted right, if it's done with resorts that we know are gonna still be open by the time somebody gets there. Like that's another thing. You read a review, there's no review that says it's closed because nobody's there, right? So, like you're on there thinking you're gonna, you know, you don't know that it's under construction or that you don't, you don't, you don't know what they consider ocean view is that you look out your balcony and you have to crick your neck all the way to the left and look past the palm tree. You don't know that when you're looking at it online. Um, so it's really where their value proposition comes to play is that expertise, that knowledge of that very specific um destination or resort in combination with what it is that you're trying uh to accomplish on your vacation. By golly, we're trying to accomplish something. We either want to disconnect, we want to relax, we want to rejuvenate, we want to try something new, we want to eat something new, we want to meet somebody, we want to go see where the bad news bears was filmed, we want to go to where game and throw like we've got a reason that we want to leave our house. Um, we have a reason. And so that's where the advisor really, you know, plays a role. And honestly, that's why it's so it's that's why advisors and financial advisors work together because the financial advisor is the is the the person that's uh trusted by the customer um with their money to do the absolute best with it based on their long-term and short-term goals. And the travel advisor is doing the same thing, they do the exact same thing. And working together, you get to say, Hey, on my 50th birthday, I want to be able to afford to go on a three-week cruise. How can we do that? Right? Or when I retire. You got that right. He clicked Clark did not hire an advisor.
SPEAKER_01Uh what a perfect tie-in. Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. I get really excited about this. I love what y'all do because you enhance people's lives, you extend their lives, their financial life, you extend the the value of their life by having helping them create something they can look forward to. Uh, somebody said there's a statistic out that says the anticipation of the vacation is the most exciting part of the vacation. Anticipation. So if you're planning it on your own and you're stressed, you've missed the most exciting part of the vacation. You've completely walked right past it.
SPEAKER_00I think that's a really good, that's a really good point and really good.
SPEAKER_01The ability to be present, right? How many people aren't present in their daily lives and then they just take that with them on vacation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Well, because they're also having to solve the problem for the whole family. Imagine you're the you're the planner of the family. When does the planner get to go on vacation?
SPEAKER_00Well, and that's the thing. Once you're on vacation, you're trying to keep everyone else on the plan that you created.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00So you're stressed all through vacation.
SPEAKER_04Right. And they're blaming, they're blaming you.
SPEAKER_00You've probably heard the adage, you know, and I I've been guilty of saying it in the past, where you come back from vacation, you're like, oh, I need a vacation from vacation.
SPEAKER_04Listen, going to Disney World, and I live in Orlando, going to Disney World in the summertime, all of us that live in Orlando, we're like screaming at people, going, Why are you here? It is the most stressful time to go to Disney is in the summertime. And they bring like little babies, but the they envision this is the, you know, my child is gonna love it. What you don't realize is your child is gonna be suffocating because it's so bloody hot down here in Orlando during the summertime. And you're gonna wait an hour and a half in line to get on that uh ride. What is it you're really trying to do with your child? You know, if you're really trying to have a family vacation where you're creating memories, maybe when they're two years old is not the best time to visit Disney. Sorry, Disney, sorry about that, babe, but maybe it's SeaWorld where it's less lines and you get a chance to touch animals and it's more tactile and it's cooler.
SPEAKER_01And you also know, all right, you guys have this in there for Disney, but if you are not six to eight months out on your Disney vacation, oh yeah, you are not gonna have an enjoyable experience at Disney, right? Everyone that I've talked to recently or the last couple of years, I was terrible. It was busy, it was lines, we couldn't get. I'm like, when did you book the trip? They're like last month. Yeah, I'm like, everybody else booked it a year ago.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, dude, yeah, a hundred percent. And Scott, you you might not even be able to eat because now they've got an where you can't even get a like you can't eat, you gotta go back to your hotel to eat or pack a sandwich.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And it's expensive to go to Disney. Sorry, Disney. I love you. We appreciate all the tourists that come to Florida. You help us not have sales, uh, you know, property or um income tax, state income tax. But oh my goodness. I just want to yell at them and go, bring them back when they're seven or eight years old and they can remember it.
SPEAKER_00You know, and you you brought up SeaWorld. The biggest surprise for me at SeaWorld was the Budweiser Clydes tales.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, what a they're just awesome, awesome animals. And then the Dalmatians there too.
SPEAKER_04But that was a You gotta go to Bus go to Busch Gardens, Jason. That's where they have the beer garden, too. So you have yourself a beer while you're watching the Clydesdales.
SPEAKER_00That is on the list. I hear Bush Gardens is amazing.
SPEAKER_04So it is, it is. There's a lot of little places, you know. Our national parks are probably the uh the place most people, most underestimated place in our country are the national parks.
SPEAKER_00We have we are home to the least visited national park in the country.
SPEAKER_01Isle Royale, I believe.
SPEAKER_00That is correct.
SPEAKER_04I don't think I've even heard of it.
SPEAKER_01Where where really they only have 12 uh wolves, apparently that live there. It is in the UP, which is the northernmost point of Michigan, which is actually an extension of Wisconsin. So getting there is is a bit of a challenge, obviously, seasonally. No one's going to the Isle Royale State Park right now.
SPEAKER_00National Park.
SPEAKER_04A national park. I well, I want to go now. I want to see those twelve wolves. They're probably named.
SPEAKER_01If if you love the outdoors and nature in northern Michigan, again, it could be one of the most unknown uh places to visit. It is kind of remote, but you can get up into pictured rocks. There's just a lot of history. But the the vistas and the ability to see wildlife is second to none.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think you have to fly in. That's the that's the biggest problem.
SPEAKER_01It is a challenge to get there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but once you get there, you want to spend look how quiet and how serene and grounding it must be.
SPEAKER_00That would be the perfect destination for those that want to be off devices, incomicado.
SPEAKER_01Old school, writing a song or a book, you know, isolated. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It saved my marriage going to a national park. My husband and I we had a very rocky uh tenth year of our marriage, twelfth year of our marriage. And we went to Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and we spent the entire time getting up at 5 a.m. Um, packing up our little Subaru and driving into Teton National Park. And because we both disconnected 100%, it saved our marriage. And it was only five days.
SPEAKER_00Amazing.
SPEAKER_04We didn't have to do it, didn't have to do a lot, just had to be together.
SPEAKER_00That's incredible too. And I I mean that's kind of the uh the healing nature of nature. You know, just being outside.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh well, I think you know, we've we've spent enough of your time here, but one thing I wanted to uh get into is our rapid fire questions. Are you uh ready for it?
SPEAKER_04Buckled up, ready to rock and roll. Let's do it.
SPEAKER_00All right, Scott, you can you can start with one of the hard-hitting questions.
SPEAKER_01I will, and I'm gonna throw the first question out to our number one Delta fan, Jen Lee. Window seat or aisle?
SPEAKER_04Aisle, all I need to control my bathroom regime.
SPEAKER_01100%. We we are 100% in agreement.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, they can charge a premium for just the aisle.
SPEAKER_04And Scott, and Scott, it's 3C. I'm always in 3C. If I'm a Delta Diamond multi-million miler, so I'm upgraded all the time. My seat is 3C. That's the sweet spot for me on the right side of the plane.
SPEAKER_01I am gonna put a Gen Lee named sticker on the next 3C seat I see on the back.
SPEAKER_00Well, and to the property of Gen Lee. I'm sure Delta of Gen Lee. Delta has it in their notes. They they probably know you just want 3C.
SPEAKER_04That's exactly right. My travel advisor knows it. She always assigns my seat.
SPEAKER_00Well, this one I think will be good because we just got into it, would be uh one destination everyone overrates.
SPEAKER_04Orlando. I feel so bad because I live here, Orlando. It's just a nightmare. It's just a it's busy for no apparent reason. Um, Epcot helps you experience the world, but the world is out there. So to me, Orlando, I'm sorry, Orlando, I love you. I still live here.
SPEAKER_01One destination that surpasses expectations, right? For first timers.
SPEAKER_04Can I choose a travel style instead of a destination? Because I think destinations, I tr to me, you know what I've heard over and over 99.872% of the time is when somebody goes on a cruise for the very first time, if they've gone on the right cruise, they're obsessed with cruising. It surprises them how much they like it. Um, I would say the second is probably a national park of some sort. Um, I think it surprises them how grounding it can be, how calming it can be, how curious. Uh we went to Jackson Hole, and every there wasn't a boring moment. There just wasn't a boring moment. And you're just thinking, how many times do I need to look at a tree? It was a variety of different trees, buffalo, moose. Yeah. Very surprising.
SPEAKER_00Luxury hotel or boutique local.
SPEAKER_04I'm bougie. I need to make sure I got room service, and I need to know, I need to know I'm bougie. It's gonna be the luxury hotel. Boutique. I might not like the sheets. And who am I gonna call? No, it's gotta be a luxury hotel. Name brand.
SPEAKER_01All right. Best travel investment recommendation time, money, or flexibility.
SPEAKER_04Ooh. Time. Give yourself time to really settle in. Make enough time to settle into where you are. Try not to jam too much into that time.
SPEAKER_00All right, and we'll end it with if someone is planning a truly meaningful trip in the next five years, what's the one piece of advice they should not ignore?
SPEAKER_04Whatever their travel advisor tells them to do, um they should not ignore when someone says spend the money. Um if someone says spend the money, spend the money. Just spend the money. Because once it's spent, you don't remember that you spent it. It's gone. And the the memories are what you remember. You don't remember that it depleted um that one savings account. Not deplete. We don't want you to deplete your money, obviously. We want you to be comfortable in your money, but spend the money. Spend the money, do it right.
SPEAKER_01It goes back to what you said earlier, right? It's just a matter of it's not about things, it's about experiences. You're not going to get to the end of your life and say, I wish I bought more stuff.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01I'm glad I got to see, I got experience, I got to do this with people, you know, in my life, not just uh on their own.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04And if somebody says, you know, my husband is a a bit of a he's not a nervous traveler because he travels quite a bit, but you know, he's one like, oh, I don't want to go to the Galapagos. Oh, I don't want to do Antarctica. Well, first off, I'll just do it without you. Okay.
SPEAKER_01I'll go with you.
SPEAKER_04Thank you, Scott. Um, thank you. Um I'll do it. But it's like you're making assumptions of things that you don't know to be true. And when I ask them, why do you not want to go? Well, I mean, I don't want to look at, but you don't know. Like, so don't ignore the person that says, I know you, I know what you like, and I'm telling you, you'll like this. I'm telling you, you're gonna, you're, you know, if you can't convince them through facts, uh, trust the people who know you, who understand you, who take the time to understand you, um, and take their advice. Because, you know, with the exception of going to Disney in August with your two-year-old, most trips you can get something really valuable out of it if you've curated and crafted it right. And with a professional who knows what they're doing. It's not about the money, it's all about the experience. You'll always remember the experience. You'll forget that you spent the money.
SPEAKER_00It just might be painful for a while. That that's where the parallels with the advice, the financial advisors ends, right? Don't spend all the money.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, my financial advisor, she's super great. She told us, she goes, I'm gonna take the X number of money out every single month. And at first, when she told me the number, I'm like, uh, you know, I've got Louis Vuitton purses to buy. I'm not this is really gonna cut into my bouginess. But she takes it out. I already know it's gone. I forget that it's gone. And every when I get my statement from her, I see it over here growing. Now it gets me excited. Now I'm cool with her taking that money out because once it's gone, it's gone. You're always gonna make more money, unless you're not making money because you're retired and you didn't work with somebody who brings you money. But it's like it's gone. Make more and enjoy your life.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Now, one thing I want to leave for this conversation too is what what if somebody's looking at planning a trip and they either don't know of a travel advisor around them or haven't thought about asking one, what would you say? Where can they find information, either from TPI's website of who would be a suitable person for them to call?
SPEAKER_04So on the TPI side, we don't have a directory or anything, but you are welcome to uh I I would say there's a couple of resources. From our franchise size, we have a directory. So you can just go to vacationplanners.com and you can find somebody. Um, I would also utilize asta.org, asta.org. And actually there's a website that we should put in the show notes. And then now, of course, the name of it's uh the verified travel advisor website, which is advisors who really take their business very seriously have to go through certifications. And I think it's verified, I can't remember if you can just look that up for me. Uh, there's a website where you can connect with an advisor who has gone through those certifications, who understands the legalities, that has your financial, you know, fiduciary responsibility, it's got the terms and conditions, doing everything above board. That's a great place. It's almost like the good housekeeping seal of approval uh in the travel advisor world. Go to Asta.org, A S T A.org, and I'm sure they've got a link there for you.
SPEAKER_00Excellent.
SPEAKER_04And then with yeah, and and with TPI, you know, and maybe just Google travel planners international advisor near me. Find somebody local. They're probably right there, down the street, at the dining room table, working their tails off, helping people travel the world.
SPEAKER_00That's right. It's not the uh it's not the little store on the corner with just pamphlets on pamphlets anymore.
SPEAKER_04No, not any longer. I miss that. I want that to come back.
SPEAKER_00So well, Jen, this was an amazing conversation. And thank you for enlightening us on the role of the travel advisor and and where they fit into your planning and and really appreciate your time.
SPEAKER_04Well, thank you guys, and you're doing great work out there. I love listening to your podcast, and it's an honor to be part of you.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Jen. Thanks for coming on board, and uh, I'm sure we'll be talking about it.
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