Night Shifts and New Horizons: Holly

Holly never set out to have a career. She wanted to be a wife and a mom — and for a long time, that's exactly what she was. But somewhere between homeschooling three kids, working night shifts as an L&D nurse, and her husband's quiet encouragement, she found herself in midwifery school.

 In this episode, Katie and Holly explore what happens when a person becomes
someone new — and what that can cost. Holly opens up about the toll midwifery
school took on her family, the shock of a marriage unraveling just as she was
finally finding her stride, and the years she spent wondering if she'd made the
wrong choice. Now on the other side, Holly is exceling professionally, hauling her own camper, planning trips to places like Alaska, and creating weekly challenge lists with friends. She's building a life that continuously surprises her — and
apparently, she has a lot to add to her 2027 (yes 2027!) bucket list.

This episode is best paired with campfire whiskey (on Holly's list to try!)

Transcript

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Katie 0:00

Hello and welcome to my podcast, mindful Midwifery Presents, the Labor Behind Labor. My name is Katie O'Brien, and I've been a nurse midwife since 2007. Midwives have tremendous pressure to show up to their work every day as their best selves. We must show up despite bad weather, bad days, or bad situations. Additionally, being a midwife often isn't a role that you have just at work. Midwives are regularly tasked with showing up for their communities and in their personal lives day in and day out. The goal of my podcast is to highlight this challenging world and give listeners an insider's view on what it feels like to be a midwife tasked with being your best self, both professionally and personally. For this episode, I'm super excited to introduce you to Holly. It took me a bit to convince my introverted midwife friend to share her story with you. Holly met me in between a night shift and a hair appointment to share her wisdom on surviving unexpected life transitions. Holly never planned on a career. She wanted to be a wife and a mom, but with her husband's encouragement, she found herself in midwifery school, juggling three kids night shifts and a mounting sense of role confusion. Now on the other side of a total life turnaround, Holly is hauling her own camper fulfilling bucket lists faster than she can make them, and building a life that genuinely would have surprised the Holly from 20 years ago. Let's jump in. Holly, I know that this was not something you were extremely excited about doing, but I really want the introverted voices in my podcast and I had Bev recently, but the perspective there is is so amazing and I don't wanna just showcase extroverted people that are happy to be on here when I know these great stories that others have that maybe I just need to like pull it out of you a little bit. And for me, you're the midwife I've had in my life that I have kind of watched go through a transition in your life. And what, what becoming a midwife can really do to your home life and, your perspective on how your life has kind of evolved through becoming a midwife, because I became a midwife at 24, so for me, my whole adult life has been being a midwife, but that. Has not been your case. You, you had lots of years under your belt, as an adult before you decided to, to do this. And I think it kind of shook up your life a little bit, becoming a midwife. So I hope to showcase that a little bit. So let's start by going into the story of what did life look like for you before you became a midwife? What were you doing? And then what was the decision for you to decide to become a midwife? What, what wasn't happening for you that you're like, oh, I, I want to do this?

Holly 2:45

So, um, out of high school, I went to college and thought maybe I'd be a nurse, but then met my husband and really ultimately didn't wanna do anything other than be a wife and a mom. So we got married, had all of our kids before I ever went back to school and finished up as a nurse. So our youngest was six years old. When I went, or I finished nursing school and became a labor and delivery nurse, and then it was through that, that I realized that I enjoy taking care of women in labor, but also wanted to be part of, their prenatal care and, seeing them in that transition of pregnancy before they got to labor and delivery. So that's when I started thinking about being a midwife.

Katie 3:30

So how was your marriage, because you were going through nursing school, already married with children. How was that process, did that feel stressful? On your home life, or were they old enough that you were able to do classes when they were away? How did that work?

Holly 3:47

So. I had a really good marriage, a really supportive husband. The kids were young and we actually homeschooled at the time I was in, nursing school. So it was a lot. But my husband was very supportive and I'd go to classes during the day. He was a pastor so he could come home and be with the kids and do some schooling with them while I was in class or clinicals. So he was very supportive. The kids seemed really excited about me being a nurse when I was a nurse. I only worked part-time, so that worked out well for our family.

Katie 4:16

And you did mostly nights as a nurse, right? Okay.

Holly 4:20

Yeah, that worked out well. 'cause then I could sleep during the day, go to all their sporting events, go to work when they were getting ready for bed, then be in the morning.

Katie 4:30

So you had this rhythm And you were still homeschooling when, during that time? Or had they gone to school?

Holly 4:35

By the time I graduated nursing school, we moved here. Right when I graduated nursing school to Delaware, we moved and they started, private school at that point. So we were not homeschooling anymore.

Katie 4:47

So you were going to work at night and then probably coming home, dropping the kids off, and then going to sleep and then. Doing the whole afternoon thing and, and life just had this rhythm to it. And so how old were they when you decided to go back to midwifery school?

Holly 5:04

So they would've been probably like eight, 10, and 12.

Katie 5:09

Okay. When

Holly 5:10

I started school.

Katie 5:11

And then did you tell me a little bit about your program. Was it continuous? Did it take you two years or did you do more part-time?

Holly 5:18

So I did part-time. It took me three years. So I started the first semester and again, like it was one of those things I loved being a labor and delivery nurse. I always thought in the back of my head, if there was ever an opportunity to be a midwife, I thought that'd be really cool. But I was just thankful, like I'd finish school later in life and loved what I did. So didn't really pursue it, but my husband was very supportive and thought that that would be something I should look into. And when I found some programs, most of them were distance learning, where you just went on campus a couple times during the program and could do it all online at home. So he really encouraged me to go. So I started and then after a semester in, I was like, this is a lot. It was a lot with family. Nobody, none of the kids were driving at that point. They were all involved in sports. I was still working, part-time as a nurse, but it was just a lot. It was a lot more than I thought it was gonna be, and I felt really guilty of taking my time away from the kids studying when there was so much going on in their life. So I actually withdrew after one semester and during that time realized like I wanted to be a midwife more than I realized. And through that time. That semester off again, my husband was super supportive, encouraging, like, you really should do this. And so when I went back, like it was obviously still hard, but there were times if I'd get discouraged, he's like, you're gonna finish no matter what. He's like, even if you don't work a day in your life as a midwife, like just finish this program like you started. And um, he was doing fine in it. So he was very supportive. There were times I remember the kids saying they felt like they only had one parent. That was

Katie 6:55

And it wasn't

Holly 6:56

wasn't you. it not

Katie 6:56

me,

Holly 6:57

my husband. So that was hard. But I they said they were just joking. But it's hard not to take that a little bit personally, but it was a big sacrifice for everybody. I did a lot of things exhausted.

Katie 7:09

so in the end, that process, like if you combine when you first started and when you ended, it ended up being how long?

Holly 7:17

three and a half years.

Katie 7:19

Okay. Yeah. That's a while in a kid's life. And so your program, you did all the didactic training first, so all of the, the book stuff first and then you went into clinicals, correct?

Holly 7:32

Yeah. While we were doing clinicals, we still had some didactic, but we did a bunch of it

Katie 7:38

Mm-hmm.

Holly 7:39

And then we'd go on campus to kind of prepare for our office time and then do office clinicals while we're still having some classes online we're taking, and then we went back on campus for a couple more weeks to prepare for the labor and

Katie 7:54

Okay, so then when you started that, last timeframe, of clinical time, it was all of a sudden you're in it and and I think pretty early on we said you, you probably are gonna be offered a job here if you, if you want it. So you were in this clinical timeframe with that, with that knowledge that that could be something you were stepping right into.

Holly 8:18

Yeah, where I was doing my clinicals prior, it was a great experience. I would've been interested in a job there. It wasn't, offered right away. And I'm not sure how I got in touch with the group I ended up working with. I'm not, I honestly don't remember how that happened, but there was an opportunity possibly to go there and do clinicals, but I wanted it. kind of promised that I would have a job there, otherwise I was gonna stay where I was at. So they, yeah, they brought me in as a student for the, my last semester with the plan of staying on as a new midwife.

Katie 8:54

So overnight, this role that you have, even though you kind of transitioned, 'cause you, you, had these three and a half years of schooling, but overnight, you now have this. I can't possibly leave work feeling. Because midwifery is a little different than floor nursing in most places. In floor nursing, there's other nurses. So if you call out, there's other people that are gonna pick up the slack or they're gonna call somebody else in that was on call. But in the midwife world, there's a lot of language that you have to be here, period. Just a big, massive period. And I think that's hard for a family to transition to. Even if before you were doing a lot of things and you were being pulled away, but it didn't have quite this like death grip of do or die, like this is where you're at. Do you feel like that was a big adjustment for your family?

Holly 9:52

It was, and I think the hours were very different. 'cause I was always part-time and two 12 hour night shifts that you work around your kids' schedule, really felt like you were working minimally and you were around for pretty much anything that was going on. So to transition out of school into a full-time, 40 hour a week, pretty much day job. Initially I was missing a lot. And at the time my husband was a teacher, so his schedule was very strict. So if the kids, Needed a ride if the kids had a, were sick, had a sporting event. Like it was actually a little bit difficult for, for us to manage those schedules, although he taught at the school the kids went to. So that certainly made it easier.

Katie 10:37

And I imagine that at that point your kids were. Were coming into teenage years. Some of them. Even then, So the, the need they have is different with a 16-year-old. It's not like you're babysitting them, but they have these memories they're forming of whether or not you're there. And they might initially be like, oh, it's not that important, but is actually important. They do notice and then you carry that with you. Um, and some of it is hard to predict. I have certainly done schedules based on my kids' sporting schedule, just for the entire sporting schedule to end up completely reworked because of weather or whatever. And now none of it aligns. And I did all this work, and, they don't really. Process that they don't process, that you took all this time off or these days that you made sure to be around for and then life happened and it got switched and now all they see is that you're just not there.

Holly 11:37

Yeah. And I think for me, like the transition from school to working, like when I started working, it actually felt like a lot less work than being in school when you're in school, it feels like it never ends. They can go to bed and you feel like you still have to study. There's more to read where when I started working, the end of my day was the end of my day. I didn't come home and study. So I felt like honestly I was more present when I finished school. And honestly, like you were our lead midwife at the time and you prioritized our families and helping us out in any way we could. S semi enjoy night shift work. So it was easy for me to transition to some night shifts, and then that made me free a little bit more during the day. But like you were really good working out all of our schedules, if I'd put in for a, a request because of a soccer game or basketball game, I rarely, rarely missed a game for the kids. In fact, once I transitioned to the job I'm at now, I miss more games than I did when I first started. So I felt like we had a really good work life balance. Like I felt like I was around for the kids. I made it to their events and it honestly felt better for me working full-time as a midwife than I had when I was in school. It was still a lot more than two nights as a nurse, but. was

Katie 12:57

That, that's good to hear. And it, it's a shout out again to schedules being done. A good schedule. It takes a lot of work, but, it really, really impacts our ability to stay at a job for a long time. I do believe that. And the nice thing was on our end, there's lots of midwives that don't wanna do night shift. So to have people that want to do night shift is super amazing, to get that on your team. It sounds like it was pretty stable then until when, like when do you feel like things got a little crazy?

Holly 13:29

Yeah, my life got very crazy after I became a midwife and I don't really know, which came first, the chicken or the egg kind of thing. But, unfortunately there were issues in my marriage and I'm not really sure honestly if that was from becoming a midwife. It was a transition for my husband too, even though, he was very supportive of that at the time. I think the full-time work, the professionalism of it maybe it really felt more like a career. And I grew up, I think I said at the beginning, I just wanted to be a wife and a mom. Like I wasn't interested in having a career. And even though midwifery is sort of like that, like I felt like my heart was still in the home. Like I still, wanted to be there for my kids and my home and my family, and felt like I was doing that well. But I think. We were early forties as well, so I don't know what part midlife crisis or challenges plays into all that, but it, my husband did share shortly after I finished midwifery school and was feeling like I was finally settling into life that he was very unhappy and our marriage and that was extremely difficult, being brand new to a field that was very stressful. Like everything you, you did required so much thought and you were dealing with life and death situations. And it was more hours than I was used to working a job I had never done before. Still trying to balance things with the kids in life and then to find out my husband was very unhappy. Uh, that was very difficult. I remember one time coming to work and there's just so much going on at home and I felt frazzled all the time and I was, just trying not to make any mistakes. And again, like I said, learned this new job and I walked in to a patient's room and I think my patient was supposed to be 26 weeks pregnant. And this patient I'm seeing has this really big belly. I was like, wow, either this is twins and I didn't about it, or she's way further along than I thought, and I'm trying to figure out how I ask her name. 'Cause maybe I'm in the wrong room. And then doctor, one of the doctors at the practice walks in the room and I'm like, oh my word. I'm totally in the wrong patient's room, seeing the wrong patient. And I was like, like, to me that like an example of like just the amount of stress I was under at the time. Like it was, it was very, very stressful.

Katie 15:47

There's so much here for me because I became a midwife, so young and I ultimately married my high school sweetheart, so I ultimately was. In the same kind of category of you as knowing my significant other very early. But we didn't marry until I was out of midwifery school. And that first part of, well, midwifery school and then the first part of your job. I think the, emotional baggage is really heavy and it's hard to put a name on that your patients are really needy and the situations you're seeing you haven't seen before, maybe from that angle, even if you were a nurse, I think sometimes in the office can really hit you too. And so I think you developed compassion fatigue actually really early, where you're just feeling like you're giving to everybody and you're not giving enough to anyone. And very exhausting. And when I first got married and I was, in my job 'cause I got married and then had my job at my first job. At the same time I did a lot of crying in bathtubs with my husband, drinking wine and just like sobbing about whatever happened to me that day. But I was able to do that because I didn't have kids and like we didn't have history behind us of, of defined roles. We were kind of like learning this together. And so I looked kind of fondly on that time in the sense of kind of going through that together. But it was easier because we were 24 and like I said, we didn't have all these other things pulling us in this direction. And to do all of that, to process all of that, while you have three kids, and they're not, they're not young kids, they're older kids. They have opinions, they have things they need. And then you and your husband have been in this defined role for so long. That's a lot. I think that would be a lot for, for anyone actually.

Holly 17:37

Yeah. And I don't know if anybody could have predicted it and maybe given me a heads up. I don't know if other people went through the same thing. Like, I just remember feeling a little blindsided by it because he was super supportive for school. He was amazing while I was in school, took care of so many things with the kids and never complained. And so to get to a point where I felt like my life had gotten so much easier, I was finding my stride in a way that I thought was better for our family than when I was in school. And to realize I was at that point, he was unhappy. It was, it was hard. I mean, there were a number of years where I regretted even going back to school. 'cause I again, wasn't sure, like me going to school, stepping into this quote unquote new career, like changing our lives up. Was that something that ultimately led to the loss of my marriage? I don't know, but I, I also think like, I shouldn't have done that. That shouldn't happened. Like, you should be able to support each other and life changes. And my goal was to be a midwife, challenge myself, professionally, but just also provide care for women. Our kids were getting older, they were eventually gonna leave. Like it was a good career field. And I, I guess I still sometimes feel confused, like why that had to, it felt like it was a factor in the loss of my marriage. And I, I still confuse, feel confused why that had to happen.

Katie 19:07

Mm-hmm. Well, we were talking earlier, before we got on the podcast, about how there are times when maybe we make the wrong decisions about how to support or significant other, you were talking about, and I'll have you go into it, so I don't mess up the story, but about starting clinical and then your husband's in the ER and how that went. And I have examples of that too. So, retell the story.

Holly 19:33

Yeah. So when I transitioned from my first clinical site to where I ended up working first as a midwife, the night before I was to start my very first clinical shift with this new group. My husband had a history of some back issues and ended up in significant pain in the er. And it was just this like. Terrible, like tension between as a wife, like I should be there, I should be supportive of him. And yet I kept thinking like, I've gotta be 30 minutes from my house at 7:00 AM tomorrow for a 12 hour shift with people who've never met me, that they've offered me a job without ever having worked with me. Like I have to go, but how do I leave my husband alone in the er? And yet, how do you can't call out of your first day? It just felt like that's not what you should do. So it, it was very stressful because there had been some minor issues in the past. And so like I wanted to show that I was supportive, but it was also like I have, I can't go with no sleep. Anyway, I. I don't remember exactly what happened if I called you first thing in the morning or whatever I said, and you're like, just come in a couple hours late. It's really no big deal. And that was huge to me. I didn't even know you at the time. I didn't know what I was stepping into. But that took a huge amount of guilt off. I still wanted to be responsible and come to clinicals, but also didn't, I didn't want to lose marriage over this kind of stuff. And those, yeah, like you've said earlier, are decisions you're constantly making. Like, I'm gonna miss out on something with the kids to be this responsible midwife, or, I'm gonna let my husband sit in the ER all night because I've gotta go to clinicals. And I've been fortunate, where I worked first and then as well as where I'm at now. There is a lot of support for taking a little bit of time off or coming in a little bit late if something major is going on. And I think, I think that's super important and lasting in your job,

Katie 21:25

When you have two people that are going through this, it's just, it's just harder than one. What I mean by that is when you had women that were at home and running the household, the husband's work just came first. That's just what it was. That was his role as a provider. And he's gonna preference that, and there's just this understanding that that's the way it is. But when you're both working and you both have careers that require you to show up, in a very large capacity, teachers also that they're, they're required to show up, every day, day in and day out. And so then it, it's just, it, it's almost not. Possible to merge those two very easily. And I have had my husband also go to the ER and not gone. And then I look back on that and I'm like, oh, that's, that's not great for the marriage, but you're in this lose lose in your head. And depending upon where you are in life, you can have a lot of those moments. It's not like they're just occurring once a year. You, you could have a tough patch with your home life and like every other day feels like a landmine of how, you're trying to navigate. Is this the time I call out or is this the time I don't have to? And i've seen people on the floor, like there was a nurse on the floor the other day that was struggling with something that her daughter was dealing with chronically, like a chronic, mental health condition. And it's like, well, is this the time I go? Is she in that much of a need or is this a time where I can stay here? That's a godawful, that's a godawful decision to have to make of like, how serious is this moment? And you don't see that. Well, I guess every job has some degree of that. You can't just be like leaving work all the time. But I think there's an added pressure when you're showing up as a care provider and you could argue that your husband also was a care provider being a teacher, that he too is having to, to show up day in and day out and how does that work? And, I've always looked at this as more of a societal problem than I do like an individual problem. Was this really like a Holly and her husband problem, or is this a larger societal problem that we're trying to navigate? A timeframe that is, is really hard to navigate, to have children and to have these jobs. And honestly where we are right now, economically, most people have to be in this situation anyway.

Holly 23:52

Yeah. and I do think it has to do with maybe how you were raised or like I said, for us, like I was home with the kids for years, so this was a huge change. I honestly think midlife had something to do with it. There's lots of changes for both men and women during that time. We were married for 20 some years, so you had done life a certain way together and that worked really well, especially because he was still in a little more of that conservative mindset of, your home or you take care of all the home things, and if you wanna work, that's fine. But it was still my responsibility for all the home things. And that I think is what women struggle with. And one thing if you start out that way, like maybe your experience was where you're coming together and figuring out what does this life look like together as a couple, we had had decades of life a certain way and then it started to change and it changed in midlife when you're already struggling with, does my life have value? Like, is this all I'm gonna accomplish? The kids are about to leave, what am I gonna be known for? And I think at the time, maybe my husband felt I wanna speak for him, but maybe a little stuck maybe in his his career. So to see me doing something really exciting, growing, being acknowledged in a bigger, more public way. Like kind coming into myself, finding myself in something that was very fulfilling to me at a time where he was struggling, maybe built some resentment, back and forth. And it certainly blurred those lines and just not something we navigated well at the time.

Katie 25:31

I have talked about this quite a lot with people in my life. My husband and I have always had a more challenging time navigating things. I remember when you started, I distinctly remember, we were all sitting in our midwife office and you were like, yeah, my husband and I never argue. And I'm like, what, what does that even mean? I don't even know that world. My husband and I frankly, have had a, I don't wanna say argumentative, but we've had a very back and forth relationship from six months into our relationship. So we've always had to have this high level of communication because things are not historically easy for us. Like we fall on different spectrums on a lot of things. And so we're always talking about that, kind of navigating that. And. If we make it to the end of time together, it will be in part because we've developed a lot of resilience along the way of like, okay, things are not easy. So this is just another day of things not being easy. It's not that different. But I think that when couples are kind of have an easier just communication style, things are just kind of flowing and they just flow. And there's not that much discord in the relationship. When they do hit discord, it's like, what do I even do with this? 'cause you're just so unprepared for it. You're just not experienced it before. And, to me, when I hear your story, I, I feel that like, oh, okay, well this was just like this massive test out of nowhere that you didn't, neither of you saw coming. And then it's like, how do we navigate that?

Holly 27:05

Yes, I would for sure agree with that. I was not kidding. When I was like, we really just don't argue. Now in retrospect, I see that as a serious problem because I think he was very quiet about things that were bothering him and didn't, didn't speak up about, which I think has created some of our issues. You can't not share those things until they become so big you can't work through them. So that's not always a good thing. But I often say like, I don't know what rock I lived under up until about 2019, but I did not realize that there were the massive amount of problems in everybody's life. And like it's, it's done. Right? Embarrassing. But like my life was really good. I don't know if people just didn't share with me, but I just thought everybody's living a really decent life and when your starts to unravel, you realize like everybody is dealing with really, really heavy things and it life stinks sometimes. But I think one of my favorite things and. In midwifery at the time, like our group was just like such, such a great group. We had nine midwives working together. Just a great group of women to work with. Mentors for me being brand new, not only in midwifery, but in life as a whole. We would get together for social events. People, few of you guys knew lots of details of what was going on in my life and you were all a good sounding board.

Katie 28:30

You

Holly 28:31

never knew whether I was together with my husband, not together, what was going on, but it's just like another, another day in my life. But I felt very supported and I don't know that I had ever really experienced that to that, that degree. And to me that was just a beautiful blessing to not only be growing as a brand new midwife, but. To have just a great group of women around me, challenging some of those beliefs that I had and letting me think outside the box and telling me everything that was going on was either somewhat normal or not Okay. Depends on the situation. And that just meant a lot to me at the time.

Katie 29:06

I pull so much of, my life guidance from other midwives and the, and that's, and, and that's actually a huge reason of why I started a podcast because there's something that draws people to midwifery. And there's a wisdom that comes, I think just inherently with, these women that, walk alongside women. You gain a lot, a lot of very valuable information. And I, and I'll just pull from whoever, right. I'll be like, oh, well, um, when it comes to thinking about older kids and what that looks like in this situation, I, I am thinking about Holly, I'm thinking about Lindsay and when I'm thinking about, how I can find the best travel places in the whole world and how to go about that and and how things can go wrong and you still survive it in travel, that's Carrie. You know, just, we all kind of bring stuff to the, the table. So there's always someone you can gain some really good information from. I've had friends over the years that, going back to that, like living under a rock scenario where, they're like, Katie, this person's husband, they're postpartum, they're newly postpartum or whatever. And this person's husband, they come home after they've been working all day and they, take the baby and then they play with the baby. And, that, that woman gets to do whatever. And so they're lamenting about their situation and how their situation feels. Not that way because maybe they're, they're staying at home now and their husband is, out working and they get, they're getting burnt out throughout the day, staying with the baby. And then they expect more help when they come home and. And this idea that everybody else is, is doing great. Like things that looks so wonderful over there, why, why don't I have this situation? And for me, it's been interesting because as a midwife, I have really enjoyed the postpartum timeframe. I, feel very strongly about postpartum visits and the ability for midwives to help in during that postpartum timeframe that it's a really fragile time in a family's transition. And so I have always heard these stories from countless women about no matter what, whether they're going back to work or they're staying at home, or no matter what they're doing, these countless stories of how there's gender role discord and what does this look like now that we have children and how do we navigate this? And it's messy. It's messy across all, all of the spectrums. So in my mind, I've actually always thought everybody's marriage is kind of like a work in progress and filled with landmine situations, honestly. But it, it, it is amazing how many women really think that that's not the case, that everybody's just kind of marching forward through these transitions easily.

Holly 32:00

Yeah, like a.

Katie 32:00

I

Holly 32:01

Said earlier, I don't know if somebody could have predicted it and given you a heads up and walked with you through this transition a little bit more closely and anticipated some of these things, and maybe it would've been different. Maybe it was just the perfect storm. I really don't know. I mean, I don't think things are super simple, so you can't say it was this one thing that led to the loss of my marriage. It's very complicated. But I do know, like it all happened around the same time. So I do think it, it played a role in some of that. But on the other hand, I also feel like it's given me the ability to care for myself and support myself and be really fulfilled in a life without being married. So on the flip side, I feel like I've grown into like a totally different person because of midwifery. I love what I do. I feel very independent, which definitely that independence and, critical thinking and being able to stand on your own two feet, that was very much cultivated and developed as a new midwife. So I feel like there were so many positive aspects for me personally in that transition as a midwife that continue even currently. So. I don't know. It's just an interesting thing. Like I said, there were a couple years after I finished that I was like, I, if I had to do this again, I wouldn't do it. And it's been a long time since I've had those thoughts anymore. I'm very thankful for what I get to do. I love it. Sometimes, we all sit around and think, well, if I wasn't doing this, what else would I do? And I just can never think of anything I'd wanna do more than what I'm doing now. So I am thankful that it provides for me financially. Well, uh, the schedule is good. My kids are all out of the home now, although one did just move back home and that's nice. But, they're all adults and I am doing well.

Katie 33:54

and you're traveling a lot. I felt like for a while, every time I'd ask what's Holly up to? Well, she's somewhere else. Which I wouldn't have if I like, take myself back to first meeting you. I wouldn't have actually expected that. I wouldn't expect that you'd be traveling so much right this moment. So that's definitely a progression.

Holly 34:14

Yeah, they call it like the travel bug or something. And that definitely happened to me. I think I always enjoyed trips and travel, but we never had money for things like that. And the kids were little, it's a lot more expensive to pay for five people to do it than one. So yeah, it's been really fun and I'm just trying to embrace the season of life I'm in now. I don't know what my future holds, but I don't wanna look back on this time of independence with regret. And I do know from past experiences, interests can be different and, people can get sick or finances can change and you can't assume a certain stage of life is. Gonna look exactly the way you thought it might. So right now, this is where I'm at and I am thoroughly loving, traveling lots of different places and doing a lot of things by myself, honestly. Like I'm just exploring like, what can I do safely and enjoyably alone if I need to? And that's been actually very empowering. 'cause I think so often, like either always have that person who will do things with you or you think you're incapable of going camping or hauling a camper or traveling to different country and enjoying, anything, dinner or concert alone. And, I hope that's not for the next 40 years. alone for everything, but I have a lot of friends and I'm just enjoying this season.

Katie 35:35

Yeah. What's been a moment that really surprised you? Something that you didn't think you'd enjoy and you were like, wow. One, I wouldn't necessarily have even taken this opportunity in the past, but two, I'm surprised how much I really liked it.

Holly 35:49

Yeah, think it might, it might sound silly, but I came back from a trip to Alaska last year and I just, I went with a few other couples and friends and kind planned the whole thing and that was super fun. I'm just like, I think I enjoy the planning of travel as much as actually traveling and yet obviously we can't go to Alaska or a big trip like that every couple months. So when I got back from that last summer, I just decided I was gonna tackle the state parks and there's 17 of them in Delaware. And it was always a goal with the kids, like, oh, we should get a park pass and check out all these parks other than just the local ones that we always went to, like Cape or Kills so I decided I'm gonna plan these trips. I'm gonna make it a little day trip and I'm gonna find a little coffee place to get a coffee. I'm gonna figure out what I wanna do there. And I tried to do something different at every park, whether it was rock climbing or kayaking or. Trails, a program, something, and it was super fun. And I visited all 17 of the state parks in I think less than three months. And I would post on it on Facebook, which I am not really a social media person. I tend to be very private and don't like to talk about my own self or just things that I'm doing. And, I felt like I got a lot of support there and that was really meaningful at a time where I was just exploring what does this look like to do things alone. It was an interesting experience. And now I've been to all the parks in Delaware. I got a free little park pass for this year and have already started checking off things to get another one next year. So didn't see that coming.

Katie 37:17

That's awesome. Did, so you used, were going to these parks by yourself

Holly 37:22

mostly. I mean, sometimes I would, I would invite people to go along and a lot of times people would go, but I, I just didn't wanna be stuck waiting on other people, 'cause people would, might cancel or people's schedules didn't always fit mine. So I would plan a trip that I would be very happy doing alone and then if I could bring somebody along, that made it even better. But yeah, there were a number I went to all by myself. and,

Katie 37:47

it, this is just interesting to me because I've gotten a little bit, probably on the ridiculous spectrum of thinking. I can't walk through forest by myself, like without getting. Taken,

Holly 37:57

Mm-hmm.

Katie 37:58

and maybe this was too much criminal minds in the past, I don't know. But I also feel like I have done that with Oh, okay. I used to not have a problem driving a certain distance by myself and now I don't really wanna go more than five, six hours driving myself. And so I feel that over time I've kind of created these boundaries that I don't, I don't know, they, they didn't happen overnight and they're not exactly anxiety boundaries, they're just kind of, I think, out of habit boundaries that I've created for myself. So when you first started doing this, did you, did, did you have to like push through discomfort more and now it's getting easier and you're able to like level up?

Holly 38:42

Yeah, I think so. I mean, it is, it is intimidating to do things by yourself and I fight thoughts sometimes of like, I'm a loser. I know it sounds so bad, but like sometimes, like you have nobody to go with you. Like you're doing these things by yourself. Everybody's got like a significant other, or B, FF that you know, do everything with you and you're just, out there like walking around a park all by yourself. And one of the times that that probably stands out the most is when I decided to try tent camping all by myself. So I was like, could, could I go tent camping? I got myself a tent. I went to Killen's Pond and I set it up all by myself. Took a hike all by myself, made s'mores all by myself, made myself percolated some coffee, slept all by myself. And yeah, everybody was like, I would never ever do that. But again, it just felt very empowering. I'm like, why not? What's the worst thing

Katie 39:31

thing,

Holly 39:31

that can happen? Thankfully, no terrible scenarios have happened yet, but, it was great. And I'm like, okay. I content camp by myself. And then I ended up the end of last. Fall. Fall, like buying a camper. And was like a huge challenge to me too. So I'm like, I grew up on a dairy farm and drove tractors, so I'm like, I think I can back this thing up. But like I'm very dependent on people still. But that was very empowering to haul a camper into campground, set up all the lines, stay in a camper by myself. Like again, I'd have friends sometimes they'd spend the night or they'd come down for the evening. But I, I like it. So I feel like I'm in a good place where I can do things alone and be happy. But also, I do have a lot of friends that will tag along and

Katie 40:13

I don't I

Holly 40:14

that maybe I'm inspiring to people. I think sometimes in singleness, people just sit around and put their life on hold until, prince Charming comes along or somebody that motivates them to do things. And I'm just like, I wanna live my life to the fullest now. 'Cause I've already experienced how quickly life can change and not be what you thought it would look like at a certain stage. So. Yeah,

Katie 40:37

Well, I'm feeling really motivated by this actually.

Holly 40:40

That's

Katie 40:40

I'm really proud of you, Holly. That's that's so cool actually. So I would counter the, looser mentality to, Hey, that's actually pretty cool. My question that's encompassing all of it, is what, what do you think your kids think now about you as a midwife and the journey you've gone through just in general from, they probably don't have memories necessarily of you becoming a, a nurse, but they've actually seen you level up. You've had kids for that whole time of leveling up. So do you have any thoughts on what their journey has been or how they feel about it? How they feel about midwifery even.

Holly 41:20

Yeah, that's such a great question and it makes me wanna, send them a text today or call them and see what they would say to that. So it's hard to speak on somebody else's behalf. But, I say in general, I think they've been pretty proud of what I do. I think they like. The fact that they know what midwifery is and that it's not called midwifery. Like they get as irritated with that, word as I do. And when I first started, people would say, oh,, you're gonna be doing home births for the Amish, right? I'm like, no, I'll work at a hospital. But just the concept of midwifery in general is still confusing to a lot of people. So I think the kids know that it's, it's a little unique. It's different. They get excited when I send a text or let 'em know how many babies I've delivered on a shift or something. I think they like that. they would say that they're proud of who I've become over the years. I think they would admit that being in school. Was hard for them too, that I was really busy with school and that I did work a lot, compared to what they maybe were used to when they were younger. But I think that they see how it's provided for me now and they see how it's grown me as a person. So I wanna say my kids are proud of me.

Katie 42:37

I bet they are. One has come home to, stay with you again. So I would say that speaks for that. They're certainly spreading their wings that they've, not been afraid to do that. And I think that also speaks for empowerment there, that, they see examples of an empowerment. Have you had to take care of any of their friends in any capacity?

Holly 42:59

That's such a great question too. I have actually, and just recently, probably this year at some point, there was somebody that I saw prenatally that was in one of my children's classes, like in middle school. And I'll be honest, my first thought was she's having a baby, thinking of them as like 12 and 13 year olds still. And I'm like, they're clearly not that little anymore. So yeah, that's a little bit, little bit different and to realize like a lot of the birth dates of some of my patients are even younger than my kids now. That feels weird. And then, my oldest is having, his first baby, his wife is this summer. So that's been very exciting.

Katie 43:37

That is very cool. And I can totally see you loving that role as a grandparent, which also probably sounds like old too, because I know it will for me. How is that going, going into having your baby have a baby? This is your son, so not carrying said baby, but still having a baby. How do you feel like that's helped or hurt your anxiety about it all?

Holly 44:04

I've always said that I'm glad I had all my children before I got into this career field or it would create a large amount of anxiety. So I'm thankful that his wife is very healthy and they're young and everything's been going well and I, I'm not planning to be there at all for the birth. So just try to just embrace that nana role and enjoy that baby afterwards. They, will ask some questions sometimes, which is really fun just to feel like I kind of know what's going on and what to expect. But I, I just am trying in some ways to keep those roles separate and, this is my grand baby, not a, a patient of mine. But it, it's actually brought like even more joy to my job because it makes it super personal. Like when I first found out they were gonna have a baby, like I would look at my patients differently actually, because hearing them go to appointment, how excited they were and all the things that they learned and the time the midwife spent with them, changed. It, just put it in a different perspective for me, looking at my patient that's sitting there, that might be 12 weeks, that might still be nauseous, that, is worried about spotting or something. I'm like, okay, if this was my daughter-in-law and this is the midwife caring for her, what kind of care do I want her to get today? Do I want somebody to give her an extra five minutes? Do I want somebody to take that concern seriously and make her feel better when she leaves? And it just made the patients feel a lot more personal and like hearing that heartbeat for the first time. It's always been one of my favorite parts of my job in the office, but just like. Seeing it differently. Like this could be my daughter-in-law, this could be my son, hearing his baby's heartbeat. Like this is such a magical moment. It's not just one of my 20 some patients

MIC1 45:49

Yeah. I say that I, I want to give care that I want my sister to get, not myself. Because it's weird when you're a midwife and you think about what you would want for your care. I was a midwife first before I had kids. And yeah, the anxiety, the, it's like really strange, going down that road. So because you know things, but your, your sister or your son or your daughter, they don't know the same things. And so the perspective is different. And it is an interesting to hear what they'll come back to, say about visits that in your head as a provider, you're like, oh, I know exactly what that person was trying to say, but here's where it got lost in translation. Because maybe they hear the words, but the way they're. Stringing that meaning together is different than you what you know, the provider meant. So definitely I have gained some perspective on that too, by having other people in my life that are pregnant. And I remember I had a friend that was pretty miserable pregnant. I don't, I don't think I've said this on a podcast before, but she was like, really, really pretty miserable, pregnant. And it totally changed my thought process on things because she was not pleasant to be around, honestly. It was like, oh my God. And after her pregnancy, I thought to myself. Well, anytime I have a really difficult patient, I'm just gonna go in there and I'm gonna think to myself that I only have to be with this patient for what, 45 minutes max. And I can have all the empathy in the world because this person is going home with their family and they are driving their family crazy. And I can do my service to the world by spending these 45 minutes and having no judgment on the ridiculousness that's about to come out of this person's mouth because I only have to deal with it for 45 minutes. And I can be very empathetic because I'm also helping the family who's at home that has to deal with this every day. You know, that person that comes in constantly to triage, there's a family behind that person. Sometimes there's not, and that's why they're in triage all the time. But a lot of times there's a family behind them and they are dealing with it in an entirely different capacity than, than we are. And it's, it's kind of good to keep that in mind when you're in front of someone.

Holly 48:07

For sure.

Katie 48:08

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm really excited for you to become a grandparent. What do you envision that's gonna look like? And I'm sure some of this will evolve and look differently than you expect, but we know what it feels like to, to have children and, and want to like, spend time away from work with them and how that looks. But does, are you already looking at what life is gonna be like with a grandchild that doesn't live close to you and what you're gonna want to do differently, work-wise, or how you're gonna wanna, handle that,

Holly 48:38

yeah, it's definitely on my mind. I think I just have to give it a little time and let things play out. Somebody once told me, oh, when you have a grand baby, you won't be traveling anywhere other than to see this grand baby. And so I'm curious about that. 'cause I do like to travel, so will that be true or will, they love to travel too, so I just said, Hey, bring Nana along and I'll hold the baby and you guys can go hiking or exploring or whatever you wanna do. So we'll see. I do hope to get, they live in Kentucky, so I hope to get down there as much as possible, but I am thankful for FaceTime and things like that, that you can try to stay connected even when you're far away and they don't, I don't know how much they have for memories in those first few years. So I have a, I feel like I have a little bit of time figure out what life looks

Katie 49:24

currently your kids are not all in the same state, so it's not like you could pick a state and just be with everyone. That currently, you'd be spread out no matter what. So I, I think when people are like, oh, my whole family is in this state, I'm gonna just go move there. But for you, that is not so black and white actually at the moment.

Holly 49:47

Yeah. My daughter is living with me now and that's been really nice. But she came, when she was in the military, she was in Texas, so I had Texas, Kansas, Kentucky, so nobody's around. So I do travel a lot, but sometimes it's just to see the kids. I see them twice a year, that's six trips just to visit the kids. So it's nice having one at home. So I'm only visiting two outside of Delaware, but

Katie 50:09

yeah. Do they live in places that are fun to go visit or are they kind of in the middle of nowhere?

Holly 50:15

Noah, the oldest is in Louisville, so I've always enjoyed that. There's a lot to do down there with, Churchill Downs and all the bourbon tours and just a lot of history in the area, A lot of really good food. So I enjoy going there. And then the youngest is in Kansas, just west of Kansas City, so I've only been there once 'cause he just got there in the fall. Still there's a lot of good barbecue there. I'm not a Kansas City Chiefs fan. Sorry. But, uh,

Katie 50:42

uh,

Holly 50:43

I was still happy to visit.

Katie 50:44

That's awesome. How much vacation time do you get at your job? I always think that's an interesting question 'cause it's, different across the board. And how are you utilizing your schedule right now to really be able to travel to the way that you want to?

Holly 50:57

Yeah. Our PTO accrues based on the hours that we work. So I think. I think it ends up being maybe like four to five weeks a year. So it's, it's not bad. I can work 12 or 24 hour shifts at the hospital, so sometimes I try to just cluster my days and then I can end up with a long weekend and be able to go visit one of the kids or take a quick trip without using any PTO. That's usually how that works. I'm, working a lot right now and trying to save up all my PTO for this grand baby. So

Katie 51:32

yeah. Sounds like you have a good amount of flexibility within your schedule, so that's cool. And it's kind of cool because you are under a hospital practice. It sounds like you're ultimately accomplishing your goals anyway in the, in the role that they've created. So if you were to bring the pieces back together, if you met you now, okay if you met you when you were in the the bridge between, the end of your schooling and the first year of your career, what would you tell you? What would you say, to help that, that younger Holly, survive this transition?

Holly 52:14

Gee, I don't know. Uh, be prepared. It's gonna get messy. You're gonna develop into a person you probably wouldn't have expected, but you're gonna really like, so yeah, I think that the transition was hard. But I feel ultimately, like I'm really happy where I'm at in life right now. Where I'm working currently is where I used to work as a labor and delivery nurse, so I'm really thankful that I went somewhere else after that and kind of established myself and worked at a really busy place and got a lot of experience and then came back to a little bit of a smaller hospital setting. But it's been really fun working with the nurses I used to work side by side with, but having that gap, I think Bev alluded to this on her, her podcast too, but that was super helpful to come back among my previous coworkers in a different role. So I feel like, yeah, like I feel respected. I feel like I've grown a lot. I feel like I'm just a very different person and honestly, I like, I like who I am right now and I'm looking forward to keep growing. I, already started my 2027 bucket list because my 2026 got so full that I like, I gotta, I gotta push some of these goals off into 2027. And I don't really remember being that way so much before, like, just constantly like so many things I wanna try to do and learn and grow and, and, and learn about and discover. And I've been following the Iditarod race. I was like, who would've ever thought like I would care about dog mushing in, in Alaska? But it's been very fascinating. So I just like exploring new things. I think at an event you hosted, the beginning or the end of last year, you said, what, what word do you bring to 2026? And I said curiosity, and I just feel like, like that's a little bit where I'm at. And I like, I like being in place where I have the bandwidth and the ability to be curious.

Katie 54:09

That's awesome. What, what are some of the other things on your bucket list for 26?

Holly 54:14

Well, I just signed up last night to go sailing.

Katie 54:17

that's cool.

Holly 54:17

yeah, I've, I've always wanted to just go on a sailboat. Never done that. I chickened out on signing up for skydiving. I might still do that, but it wasn't on my bucket list. But, I don't know, just challenging myself and things like that. But little things like, having like sitting alone at a restaurant, I've done that before, but like, not on your phone or, or this is like, this is a weird thing, but I would like to go to a restaurant sometime and see somebody else sitting alone and ask if I could eat with them.

Katie 54:46

Oh, that's cool.

Holly 54:47

Yeah. If they said no, that's fine. But just feel like, if I was sitting alone and somebody decent came up and, just join me for dinner. Like think of the conversations you could have. So that's on my bucket list, like reconnecting with a friend from the past and I have the opportunity to do that this coming weekend. A little bit out of the blue, but somebody I went to middle school with. So, just looking for ways to challenge myself. Those

Katie 55:10

Those are excellent ideas. There's, well, you probably know this, but the surgeon general declared, loneliness A big factor like an epidemic. I forget exactly what they phrased it as, but you're describing really great ways of combating that. How great would it be if people just went up to people in restaurants and started eating with them? There's just like this weird barrier, right? But why, why is there a weird barrier there? And if people suspected people would do that, would they be more likely to go eat alone at a restaurant? Because I probably would. Now I'm extroverted. But um, yeah, that would probably be more appealing to me because the idea of going and eating at a restaurant by myself is like not something that is on my bucket list currently. But I, yeah, if I was at a restaurant and you came up,

Holly 55:56

Now somebody totally weird came up. I'm not sure.

Katie 55:59

Well, you wouldn't know that till afterwards. I wouldn't. Maybe not even right away.

Holly 56:04

You're going to eat it by yourself anyway. So it's a meal and you had a conversation and, again, just be curious about somebody else's story. I think there's a lot to everybody's lives that, they don't get to share and they should have the opportunity to.

Katie 56:18

And that's the, the interesting thing for me, the podcast is filling some of that. As you referenced earlier, before we started recording, you listen to Bevs and you knew Bev, for, intimately like in a practice setting for a while, and there were things you didn't know. And the same thing is happening with me with these podcasts. Most of all of the guests, well, maybe all of the guests at this point. I know I, I know pretty darn well, some of the ones I have coming up I don't know as well, but I have learned things about these people that I thought I. Knew like a whole lot about, especially professionally, I'm still learning some things even about them professionally. And that's been really, really interesting. My husband is actually someone that can go and his favorite thing in life is to go talk to a, a random person somewhere for like an hour and he will come back and be like, I had the best conversation of my whole life.

Holly 57:11

Yeah. I'm trying to get better about that. And that's a lot of my goals, like have conversations without my phone or to speak to random strangers. And I have a couple of friends that we have, like every week we, we have a whole like list of things and every week somebody chooses two things and those are our challenges for the week. And, uh. I knew I'm not great. I'm not an extrovert. I knew I wasn't great with a conversation, but I didn't realize quite how bad it

Katie 57:34

was

Holly 57:34

until one week it was, and chose it, have a conversation, like a somewhat meaningful conversation with a stranger. It was also like go to Goodwill and try on some. something you'd never normally wear, whatever. So I was like, I'm gonna kill two birds with one stone. So I went, did the goodwill thing, and then I was like, I'll just have a conversation with the guy at the register. So he was probably like early twenties maybe, but out of my comes like the oddest things and I was just like, oh, what time do you get off work? I was like, oh, that, that's a really bad

Katie 58:04

question.

Holly 58:05

And then what do you have to you get off I'm like, this is just going from bad to worse. So anyway, like

Katie 58:12

I'm trying to challenge

Holly 58:14

except by limitations, but also say like, okay, these are areas I can grow and I wanna get better.

Katie 58:18

Mm-hmm. So

Holly 58:19

I don't, I don't succeed at everything, but I, I feel like I am growing as a person this year.

Katie 58:25

Well also, if you start in categories where the bar is really low, it's also opportunity to, to quickly level up. That's so funny. So did these friends that you have, that you've created this, these,, what did you call them? Like lists or,

Holly 58:40

Yeah. challenges.

Katie 58:42

How did you guys start doing that? Are you all single or this, how Yeah. We, how did this evolve? Because this is super

Holly 58:48

are all single and I don't know, I think the end of, I think just personally, like thinking of my own bucket list for 2026, like this was in December. I was like, oh, what are the things I wanna put on that? What are goals I have for myself? And so, chat GBT is like an amazing thing. I'm learning, being like definitely middle aged. I'm more resistant to technology sometimes, so I just like plugged into that, like, make me a list of 52 things. 52 bucket item things for 2026. And it was so interesting, the things that they came up with. Just things I never would've thought of like that. Like sincerely compliment a stranger, buy yourself flowers. Just little things. I don't have to cost money. They don't have to, you don't have to travel anywhere to do 'em, but just are things maybe you wouldn't think of. So I reached out to these two friends and I said, Hey, do you guys wanna like put together a list? We should do this. It'd be fun and easy. And it's been really, it's been really fun. And then you have somebody to do it with. And so each week somebody picks two of them and we don't always accomplish it, but it gives, gives us a challenge for the week.

Katie 59:53

That's a, that's a super great idea. And it makes sense to me that these friends that would be single as well, 'cause you're going through this journey together. But I also think it would be really nice for people that have children and are kind of lost in the role of parenting to do with a couple of friends that they have that are also kind of lost in the parenting role because that's, that's the place I'm at. I'm, I am in the place that you just headed out of recently and you can tell me 'cause you've already been here, but I think the last stages of parenting actually are kind of the most intense that you life is so evolved around your kids that are about to launch that you. I think I feel more lost in that sense than I did when they were even little with being able to connect with my own friends. Like my friends are entirely based around my kids' lives. And I was talking to one of my friends recently, that it's like when they're younger, you can just drag them along. So their friends are actually their friends because they're your friend's kids. And then when our kids get older, your friends start becoming their friend's parents. So it's like this, this weird dynamic, shift and you don't see the people that you've chosen to be in your life for a long, long time. Because it's just not working out. So creating a bucket list with those people in your life of like, Hey, we're gonna create a bucket list of I'm going to see you in this capacity, or do this, or whatever. I can just think of this being applicable to so many relationships and really helping a lot. So Very cool. Yeah.

Holly 1:01:26

Ask Chad GPT. really helpful.

Katie 1:01:28

Create a list of things I can do with my friends that I never see.

Holly 1:01:32

Mm-hmm. Well I think, the beauty in that parenting role, because that's still where my heart is, even though my kids are all older, there is nothing I don't feel is more fulfilling than being a mom. And even in the loss of my marriage, like I loved being a wife and I always saw myself being a wife and that was a loss I had to let go of. But thankfully I'm still a mom and even though they're adult kids, like I'm still a mom to them and they still need me and I still need them and reach out to them. And, so I think it's very easy if you enjoy that role to it becomes all consuming and, and it feels very fulfilling. It always did for me. I didn't regret like, I lost my identity or I don't have any of my own interests. I was totally happy to make their lives, my life. And I just always kind thought oh, when they are out of the home, that will be my time, or in my marriage or whatever. Then we'll rediscover things and I think that can lead to marriage issues if you don't, keep up with that when the kids are busy and little or, but yeah, been a very like stark. Turn of events for me, like sudden insignificant where I am all of a sudden alone, and kids were at home at the time. So I'm like, I am alone on Friday night if I didn't plan something. And I, I also wanted to just like, go through this journey well, and come out in a, in a better healed version of myself and not, and not like numb that pain or, cover it up with activity. I, I try keep myself in check. I like to go and I like to challenge myself, but I'm also totally fine sitting home by myself reading a book and, I might be sad sometimes I let I cry if I have to, but like, I also don't wanna get stuck in that. My life is different. It's not over.

Katie 1:03:24

I think that's such wise advice. I think every, everybody has a lot of people in their life going through what you've gone through. Generationally, this is happening where, women in, because the gender roles are so confusing and blurred, and I think it's easier when you, when you have a black and white scenario and then when you don't and it gets messy. It's just so confusing and then you're both kind of at a loss. So I think there's a lot of people going through this this transition that you have gone through. Like how you've gone through it, I had kids and then the career changed and now I'm in this place. And it's not just happening, I don't think at 40 something. I think it's happening at 30 something. So I'm so happy that you, came on and we're willing to talk about all of this, because I think a lot of people can re, can relate to it.

Holly 1:04:17

The other thing I, I'm thinking of too is like, as a woman, I think our design to nurture and care, and I think that's why a lot of women are nurses. I think that's why we do great in a midwifery role, just being with women, providing support, presence, care. And I think this transition for me personally has been difficult because that. That role of, of nurture, being a lover, caring for the people in my life, most people have all been removed or are far away. So I think midwifery has actually, like, I, I feel like I've settled into my role even more maybe in the last year, just realizing like it's that outlet for me of just enjoying relationships, with coworkers or with patients that I develop. And it, it provides that outlet to just nurture and care that I feel like is innate for me at least as like those other major outlets have changed for me. So I think it's just been interesting that I feel more settled in this role now than maybe I would've even a couple years ago.

Katie 1:05:33

So it was almost an investment into your future self to become a

Holly 1:05:36

Yeah.

Katie 1:05:37

And you also described why, you might never retire.

Holly 1:05:41

Yeah. I mean, I, still think of myself as really young. I think retirement sometimes feels too far away and other times, yeah, I

Katie 1:05:47

think

Holly 1:05:48

like what would I do with myself? I have lots of interests, but I do find my job very fulfilling. And

Katie 1:05:54

You're probably still almost 20 years away from retirement anyway, right? So Yeah, exactly. And I think that's important to think. That's why I started going through the transition of my workplace. 'cause I was like, oh my God, I can't handle this for another like three years. I've said this before in the podcast, and I'm gonna be doing it for another 20. So to be in a place where you can look at your job right at this moment and be like, yeah, I can do this for another 20 years. This is, this is very life giving to me. This's pretty awesome.

Holly 1:06:22

Yeah. And I do think it comes from like, I, I like my job in itself, but also I just think that. Curiosity and seeking to develop your person and, um, looking for opportunities to grow just makes life more fulfilling in general.

Katie 1:06:38

Mm-hmm. Yeah. We should not stagnate

Holly 1:06:41

Yeah. And

Katie 1:06:42

And midwifery is such an evolving career Like it's evolving in, what her role is, but the, the job itself is always evolving. Like, you see this woman maybe for GYN care for a long time, and now she's pregnant. And so it evolves into the pregnant care and then it evolves into birth, and then it evolves into postpartum care, and then it evolves into perimenopausal care. And so. Even the job itself is always evolving, always changing, always challenging us to, to keep up. And as your patients become, start going through those phases and you go through those phases in your own life, you start investing in those, in those areas and in different ways. So there are a lot of different avenues that you can pursue and be changing and constantly, growing. It's a, it's a growth field. I, I don't think we should stop growing as midwives. And you're not, you're not stopping growing personally either. So

Holly 1:07:46

Nope. Exciting things ahead. For all of us.

Katie 1:07:49

Yes. Well, I'm so thankful that you decided to, to do this podcast. And I didn't have to actually drag you too, too hard onto it. So that was also a win.

Holly 1:08:00

You didn't have pursue a little intently. Uh,

Katie 1:08:04

had to do that me, actually. It took, two different podcasts for me to get comfortable with podcasting. So, and here I So who knows? Now, now maybe you can start a podcast on life as a, a single person becoming, very, very good at making your life fulfilled.

Holly 1:08:24

I'll add that to my 2027 bucket

Katie 1:08:26

There you go. I love that idea. Well thanks Holly.

Holly 1:08:30

Thank you.

Katie 1:08:32

I hope you have enjoyed this episode of Mindful Midwifery Presents, the Labor Behind Labor with my guest, Holly. I could not be more in awe of the person she has become. I hope we can all take pieces of this wisdom and incorporate them in our lives to create a more connected and empathetic community. In two weeks, I will be sharing Corey's episode with you. It is really cool to talk to a midwife in the middle of a journey that blends both professional and personal growth. After having children of her own. Corey decided to be a gestational carrier, recently pregnant with the couple's second child. She graciously took some time to talk to me about what she's learned about being a gestational carrier with the background of a midwife. A truly fascinating episode. If you are loving these episodes and have a topic suggestion or a midwife you would love to hear as a guest, please email me or contact me through Buzzsprout. Let's connect again in two weeks.