April 28, 2025: Lord Andrew Roberts Discusses the 7 Oct. Parliamentary Commission Report

Lord Andrew Roberts reflects on the importance, thorough process, and driving motivation behind the meticulously documented 7 October Parliamentary Commission Report released to the public in March 2025. Be encouraged to read and share this vital historical record, capturing the horrors and atrocities endured by Israelis on October 7, 2023. Discover how the commission was formed, the rigorous methodologies employed to ensure an unassailable preservation of history—including the names of every victim—and how the report has been received both in the UK and internationally.
This document stands as a crucial archive for future generations.
Find the report, updated as needed with new research, at:  https://www.7octparliamentarycommission.co.uk/
To learn more about Lord Andrew Roberts and his publications,
go to https://www.andrew-roberts.net/

Visit us at www.cameraspartnership.org to learn more about our work and how we can help you with resources to encourage churches, pastors, and Christians to defend Israel and combat antisemitism wherever it is found. Visit CAMERA.org for the latest news corrections and find links to our Campus, K-12, UK, Spanish, Arabic, and Hebrew departments.

Transcript

UNKNOWN: 0:00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 0:13

This is Amy Zewi with CAMRA's Partnership of Christians and Jews. CAMRA stands for the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting and Analysis. Today we are honored to have joining us Lord Andrew Roberts. He is just a distinguished mind that is a treasure to the world, the author or editor of over 20 books, a scholar, professor, a sought-after researcher, and just, again, just a treasure to the world. Thank you so much. about your inspiration and motivation for even getting into that desire to commission this report and dig into the details that you dug into. And we can talk a little bit about the methodology and how just rock solid the research is and the feedback that you've gotten. So please, let's start a little bit about learning a little bit about you and what was your desire or motivation for engaging in this process? Well, thank

SPEAKER_00: 1:48

you very much indeed, Amy, for those tremendously generous remarks. I feel very honoured and flattered and I am a big supporter of CAMRA. I think everything you do is so important, especially now, probably more now than ever before, I'd say. The answer is that I was asked by the chairman of the all-party parliamentary group at Westminster, Lord Mendelsohn, who recognised that This was going to be a battleground, frankly, between people who were going to try to deny that the 7th of October ever happened and people like us, like the rest of the world, like all reasonable people who recognised what a monstrous atrocity took place that day. And so... When I was asked by him to chair this report, I immediately said yes, because I recognised that in 50 or 100 years time, we're going to need, at least not we are going to need, but our descendants are going to need to be able to put down a plan. irrefutable collection of facts about the things that happened that day, which will be able to fight back against this denialism, which has already started, despite the obvious fact that a lot of the evidence that we have for what happened was taken by the perpetrators themselves, by the terrorists themselves on their GoPro cameras and so on.

SPEAKER_01: 3:31

So as you took on this, I wanna say challenge or project, and I know that the, 300 and change page report that has been issued is subject to updating on your website. And I'll share that information with our viewers and listeners. But you also spent a good bit of time in the beginning of that document explaining the methodology, the rigor at which you would include data and the verification of data and the the chain of custody, so to speak, of the data and the video. Can you explain to us a little bit about that process and why you felt the need to really make sure that was a key focus in the introductory pages of that report?

SPEAKER_00: 4:20

Oh, very much because we know that denialism has already begun. And in fact, it began before the massacres had even ended. The Palestinian Solidarity Campaign asked the Metropolitan Police for permission to demonstrate outside the Israeli embassy at 2.50pm Israeli time on that Saturday, the 7th of October. So whilst the massacres were still taking place. And And that wasn't a demonstration. It was a celebration, frankly, as a lot of the so-called demonstrations have been since. And so we recognised that all of our evidence was going to be questioned, that there were going to be conspiracy theories that would be put forward, that it was going to be denounced as Zionist propaganda and so on. And sure enough, it has been on the internet, needless to say. But we needed to make sure that we only used evidence that we could fully support, you know, from more than one source, that we only used absolutely irrefutable evidence. serious and substantial evidence and there was a huge amount of it out there you know of course there was because the terrorists killed 1182 people and so the evidence was there for all to see the trick was to get it all together and present it in a way that wasn't so foul and gory I mean Obviously, we're talking about a massive massacre here. So, of course, in a sense, it was going to be gory, especially the ways that the terrorists chose to murder their victims, often with torture and sexual humiliation and so on. I don't for a moment say that this report is not gruesome, but frankly, it could have been an awful lot more gruesome if we had put in things that we knew happened, but which we weren't able to double check and verify. So actually, if anything, the report almost downplays the true horror of what happened that day.

SPEAKER_01: 6:33

What I truly appreciated about it is that First of all, you present it in a way that is clearly disclosing a non-agenda-driven focus, that this is the facts, just the facts, as you can document them. In addition to that, it also became, to me, very personal, because as you go through each chapter or section and you examine the kibbutzim or nova or the roads, for example, which was often neglected in a lot of the documentaries, you actually then include names or names that were allowed to be disclosed. But we got to see personally with quotes what that reaction was. And to your point, are on the record for those who want to deny it even happened or deny that civilians were were the targets or downplay the severity of it?

SPEAKER_00: 7:35

Yes. I mean, civilians were the targets in almost three quarters of the murders. So of course, this was intended to be a massacre of civilians and innocents and people from every country and literally 39 to 40 countries. And people from as young as 14 months all the way up to somebody who was in their 90s. I mean, a Holocaust survivor, to make it even worse, really. The whole thing was so... catastrophic, that of course it needed a serious work of history, which is how I see this report. It's not, as you say, it's not polemical in any way. It's very much a work of history. And so that's why they chose me as an historian. There were any number of other people who could have done that job. I was very proud to be chosen, needless to say, but I approached it, and so did my team, very much as a work of history. And that's why I am Come back to this point about how it's going to look in 50 or 100 years time. It's very much written with the point of view of history in mind, because this is a historical event. And I think it's the most terrible historical event that I can think of in terms of sheer one day slaughters. and the way that it was done as well, the sort of manufactured blood lusts that was part and parcel of the planning of this operation. I can't think of anything like it since the rape of Nanjing in 1937 and 38.

SPEAKER_01: 9:25

I mean, it's just, it was so meticulously done as far as, I mean, if any of you, of viewers or listeners can get a hold of that PDF, the amount of documentation, the footnotes, the checking and the cross-checking, and I have to say thank you for also including some of the cameras research was cited in there as well. So shout out to our researchers there being able to offer information.

SPEAKER_00: 9:51

Well, and thank you to them, obviously. That's one of the reasons that I started this by saying that I'm very much an admirer of your work.

SPEAKER_01: 10:01

So as we, one of the things I

SPEAKER_00: 10:03

do have to say. Oh, sorry. One other thing that you mentioned that I want to make sure that I don't forget to mention was when you so rightly said that we mentioned the names of all the people who were killed. Because in these great and terrible times, events historically, moments like 9-11 or Pearl Harbor or any of these other things where a large number of people die in one day, you very often don't get an individual What's the best way of putting this? A memorialization of the individuals. You get the memorialization of the event, but not the actual people themselves. And so I thought it was tremendously important. And obviously, we use the Book of the Dead at Yad Vashem as a template, as a shining example of the best of all of this. to try to remind everybody about the personal side of this, what is also obviously a historical event.

SPEAKER_01: 11:17

Yeah, so there was this historical event that you felt the need, rightly so, to... to document for posterity, for history, but at the same time in those numbers, those seemingly unfathomable numbers that each one was a name. It was a person, somebody's daughter, husband, brother, friend. It's just, they were people. And I found that quite moving. And

SPEAKER_00: 11:42

that's why they are all named. That was tremendously important to us when we were writing it to make sure everybody was named.

SPEAKER_01: 11:53

Yes. And it just was very moving. And the other thing that was surprising to me, as someone who's been following this closely since the night of or morning of October 8th, I did not, you have some excellent charts documenting like the terrorists and their different organizations or sub organizations. And I didn't realize it was almost a 7,000 people. people, when you think about, you document this in the report, I encourage everyone to go look at it, but you also document the number of civilians, of Gazan civilians, including, you know, men or women and the looting that when you have photographs and documenting. And I think that is a surprising bit of information to many people. many people and certainly not anything that was covered in our mainstream media. Did you find anything particularly surprising as you were going through this one year long January 24 to January 25, I think was the research period initially? Oh,

SPEAKER_00: 12:59

yes, yes, plenty. And actually, that was one of them. The number of different terrorist groups under the Hamas umbrella is interesting. We identify seven. But also, as you say, the fact that well over a thousand just ordinary Palestinian civilians took the opportunity to cross over into southern Israel and commit repulsive crimes. degrading, just monstrous crimes. They leapt at the opportunity when they saw it. And that was... quite shocking to me really i think also the other thing um really was the this sense that the the blood lust was not something that just came as a result of um of the situation which has happened historically since the middle middle ages you know and earlier you you you have uh people in combat just completely losing it and trying to kill as many people as possible and so on. That's not unknown. What's much more rare historically is for that bloodlust to be entirely artificially created by the people who were planning and plotting the attack. That's a as I say, an unusual thing in history. And obviously, it speaks to the appalling cynicism of the perpetrators.

SPEAKER_01: 14:37

If I had my way, Lord Roberts, I would have this document be required reading on every college campus wherein there was an encampment or some sort of Hamas sympathizing, to say the least, challenge or Just the garbage we're seeing on college campuses. I wish this could be issued as required reading in the Middle East studies departments. It's just so valuable. Tell me, have you gotten any invitations to college campuses to have then like a debate on the situation, a debate on the Israel-Gaza war? Has anybody offered an opportunity for you to have an intelligent academic conversation? No

SPEAKER_00: 15:25

one. Not one. And let me just go further. I also have been interviewed by people about this report in Denmark, in Germany, in Australia, in Israel, of course, in Britain, in America, God knows how many other places as well, but not by the BBC. They've taken no interest in it whatsoever. It's been entirely ignored. They had a copy. At the moment it was published, they were invited to the launch and so on. Absolutely no interest from them whatsoever, even though this is not just me. This is an all-party parliamentary group. We have people from all of the parties as part of the group, not the Islamist parties, of course. They Wouldn't want to join anyhow. But frankly, it is pretty extraordinary to think that this report was published on the 18th of March. And we're now well into April and not a peep from our national broadcasting corporation in Britain.

SPEAKER_01: 16:36

And no invitations to colleges to have a cogent, reasonable discussion on the topic either.

SPEAKER_00: 16:42

I'm sorry, with the ten to father now in most of our universities, including our absolute top elite universities. We've got beyond the stage where they're in the slightest bit interested in cogent, intelligent, intellectual discussion. The problem is now, Amy, and it's obviously true also in the United States as well and elsewhere, is that. When you do have these kinds of arguments, they lose, which is why they don't want the arguments. And so instead, screaming and yelling and shouting and setting up tents and boycotting and so on is the way that they have recognized, probably rightly, that that's how their message gets across. You know, in a 13-second meme on TikTok, they're going to be able to make more conversions than in a hours debate at the Oxford or Cambridge Indian Society. It's the way the world is working. It's something that obviously intelligent, thoughtful and educated people must decry. But what can we do about it?

SPEAKER_01: 17:52

No, I know. And one of the other things about your report that I particularly appreciated as a member of the UK and this report, your initial audience, it What you're sharing with them is what happened to the British citizens. You make it a point to insert in the timeline or in the different examinations of the Kibbutzim or Nova, who was a compatriot, right?

SPEAKER_00: 18:19

Yes, we lost 18 kills, which was the largest number of Britons to die in a terrorist attack since 9-11. And so it strikes me that that in itself puts tremendous pressure or should put on the British government to want to see the perpetrators brought to justice. Instead, we have a government which is putting sanctions on the Israeli government in that they don't allow its prime minister to come to Britain without being arrested, they say. There are certain arms they're not selling to the Israeli government because they say that they might be used in war crimes, even though they haven't actually accused Israel of war crimes. The way I'm afraid the present British government is behaving towards Israel, and I'm speaking now entirely as an individual, not on behalf of the APPG, because of course that does include Labour Party members who will disagree with me on this, and so I'm not in any way speaking with with the imprimatur of the all-party parliamentary group. But just as a private individual and as a peer, a member of the upper house of the British Parliament, I think it's a disgrace.

SPEAKER_01: 19:47

And to your point, documenting those 18 individuals As part of the report, as clearly focused or highlighted in the report, you would think that in and of itself would spur the media, BBC and the like, the other mainstreams in the UK, to really want to highlight this because these are your compatriots. These are your citizens. Well,

SPEAKER_00: 20:14

exactly. And as I say, apart from the BBC, we have had a tremendously positive response from the British media, as well as all over the world. And we've also had, I mean, I've had a very positive response walking around the corridors of the House of Lords, you know, the number of people who've come up to me and said, thank you for this. Well done. I've read it. It's devastating, obviously, has been very cheering. So as far as I'm concerned, it's been a very positive response. As far as that side of things is concerned, I think it's hopefully done some good.

SPEAKER_01: 20:49

And we on our end here at CAMRA on the North America side of the pond, we certainly want to encourage the proliferation of this report to get into people's hands so that they can read through it, even if you take it in pieces because it's a large document, to check the website because you will update things as new

SPEAKER_00: 21:09

information comes. Yes, that's a very important aspect. And I'm so pleased you mentioned that, Amy. Thank you. This is an ongoing process. So when we get more information and If we need to change information that we've got, of course, it's very much an evidence-driven project. So when we get more information about anything that's cogent, we will absolutely be updating the website and the report.

SPEAKER_01: 21:42

well, this is just very much a gift to the world, certainly to the UK and to the world to have this historical document that is just so indisputably completed. I mean, like you said, you're not getting invited to debate things because how could anyone debate the facts that you so well documented? And that's why I think it should be required reading on all college campuses. But, and I'm glad we're able

SPEAKER_00: 22:10

to- That'll be the day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 22:12

And we just really, really appreciate it. What is next for you? Do you have any new projects upcoming that we should be aware of?

SPEAKER_00: 22:21

Sweet, if you know, I'm going to go back to my normal job as a historian. I'm writing. I'm here in Paris at the moment, and I'm researching a book called Napoleon and His Marshals. So I'm going back from the gory 21st century to the, I'm afraid, equally gory 18th and early 19th centuries.

UNKNOWN: 22:42

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 22:43

Well, we'll keep after your work and follow you. We'll be sharing your links so folks can look you up and look at your other historical books as well. And we thank you again for your generous amount of time with us and sharing this experience of sharing this and what you found and allowing us to share it with our greater network. And just thank you so much for all you're doing.

SPEAKER_00: 23:05

Well, thank you, Amy, and keep up the great work with Canberra.

SPEAKER_01: 23:09

Thank you. Thank you.

UNKNOWN: 23:12

Thank you. Thank you.