Luis Nunez – the World’s Greatest Oracle EBS Expert – Works for Us

In today’s episode we welcome Luis Nunez, Senior Director of Data Analysis and Delivery at Palisade Compliance. Luis talks about his incredible journey that started out with an unpaid job and a stack of Oracle PL/SQL manuals and led to his role at Palisade Compliance. Luis’s years in the Oracle LMS trenches and his encyclopedic knowledge of licensing has made him a leading Oracle E-Business Suite (EBS) specialist. Or as he’s known at Palisade Compliance,”The World’s Greatest EBS Expert”.

Tune in now to get a special insight into one of Palisade Compliance’s experts.

Connect with Luis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luis-nunez/

Transcript

Setting The Stage And Guest Intro

SPEAKER_03 0:06

And welcome everybody. This is Craig Gorenti, the host, your host for the world's greatest podcast. Thank you guys for joining us today. We've got a great guest and we've got a great origin story today. And I really am excited to present uh today's uh focused origin story, the world's greatest EBS licensing guru. Luis Nunez. Luis, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Thank you. Thank you, Greg, for having me. Uh I don't know about the world's greatest EBS, but uh who's better than you in the world?

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Uh is there anyone at Oracle better than you?

SPEAKER_02 0:50

No one comes to mind. No, no. You it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

We can be a little cocky here. We are we are I'm the world's greatest podcast guest guest uh host. You are the world's greatest podcast guest today. So you have to be amazing today.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

There you go. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

So Luis and I uh met the other day while we were in Houston, and um you brought me to this restaurant that served ants on the food. And so that was you all the authentic Mexican. There you go. I had authentic Mexican and you gave me ants. Okay. Um I was thinking like teachis or chilies or something, but uh actually the food was delicious. Uh thank you for that. And um Luis told me his story. We were just talking about life and sort of our journey into you know how we got to where we were, and he told me this great story and I was like, we we have to put this on the air. This is something that I think uh people in their, you know, whether you're in software asset management or IT or marketing or wherever, uh it's a great story of how you start in one place and end up somewhere else. Because I I think when when people heal the story, um, you know, I I I could relate to a lot of it, but I would think when given your background, when you were growing up, you probably weren't thinking that one day you would be the world's greatest EBS licensing. Not in a million, not in a million years. So right. If you put 10,000 job descriptions down, that probably would not have been on the list.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Not at all. I didn't even have the concept of this role that I'm playing now for piloted compliance.

College Struggles And Family Pressure

SPEAKER_03 2:30

That's awesome. So let's let's let's tell the story. Um and and I took some mental notes and and and wrote some things down because I I love there were some pieces of this that I really loved, and and one of it uh is picking up at university, starting at at college, in fact, and one of the things that you said to me uh was you weren't even sure you wanted to actually just wanted to work. Like you just like, what is this school? I just want to work, and sort of that interaction with your dad, and sort of uh how he convinced you maybe not not to so tell me about like what what was the I don't want to say aversion to school or the desire to work, like what was your thinking back then?

SPEAKER_02 3:13

Uh well um I'm number three on a family of six, so I have five siblings, and um I guess I was trying to find my own place. My dad has a PhD in physics, my older uh brother and sister, they have their uh physical engineering and chemistry engineering. So no pressure for number three, a lot of pressure to get into engineering. So I did. I went into uh electronic systems engineering, and uh let's just say that I didn't do that well in my first semester, and uh I no real uh um when you say you didn't do that well, what is that you like all B minuses? No, I wish. No, uh I so in that first semester you had five classes because I think Matt was a double credit. Um so I failed four out of five. I aced computer, uh the computer class, which is Pascal. So pretty much that one. Still not wanting to get into computer science at all. I was just trying to be a good family member and get an engineering degree, but not really not really passionate about it.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

Four Fs and one A. And now you're holding the rapport card and you're going.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

I'm not good at this.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Dad doesn't have to sign this, does he?

SPEAKER_02 4:52

So I went to my dad, who was working at that university. So this is the monoric tech.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

So you're going to school at the university where he teaches. Yeah. And you just failed four classes. That's a great conversation to have.

Choosing Marketing Out Of Spite

SPEAKER_02 5:08

My teacher was my dad's colleague because he worked at the math department. This just gets worse than a former student of my dad. So he had a lot of needless to say, he had a lot of expectations that I did not meet. And I go to my dad and I tell him, um, I don't want to do this, I just want to work. I'm pretty good at that. So I want to go uh drop out from college and get a job. And uh normally my dad would get pretty worked up for something like that. Right. Uh teacher and college professor, good job, and but he took it very calmly. I guess he was expecting that conversation. I I'll never know. But he said, Well, um, Luis, uh, that's fine, but before you do that, um, as long as you live in my house and I pay for your expenses, and you have to finish college and and get a degree.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

He pulled the dad card. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:26

I was pretty upset. I I remember the next day I went to the office of the registrar of the university, the college, and I asked the the clerk to give me all of the plans, because they have this little brochure for every plan. I I said I want to I want to see all of them. There weren't that many, or like 20, 25 of them. And I put all the engineering in one side and all the bachelor of arts in the other. And in my mind, well, those are these are the easy ones. Uh I started through the Bachelor of Arts, and uh, here's economics, and here is uh accounting, and then I found marketing. This sounds like the easiest of them all.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Oh man. I'm sorry to all of our marketing people out there. He does not know what he says.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

And I didn't, I didn't know. Uh so rather than that, that was my motivation and my thought process and selecting my professional career, at least the my college degree.

SPEAKER_03 7:27

So, what's the easiest so I can get out of school and get get a job somewhere? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

In my mind, so I did all this out of spike. I was thinking, I'm gonna go back to my dad and tell him, here's your degree. Now let me go do my thing.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

So you got a spike degree. You got a spike degree. There's a whole I don't know, you watch Kirby Enthusiasm, he opened up a store, called it the Spike Store, because he wanted to spite the other owner. So you got a spike degree. That's what I have.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Yep. So I did not great, but much better in marketing.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

So I got fifth grades, B, B plus, never A.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Right. Uh eventually graduated and started looking for a job. Now the problem is uh Monterey, Mexico, the the the city where I uh went to college, it's it's a it's a college city. So and marketing is the one I guess I'm not the only one thinking that that was easy enough. The the one uh uh career back then, the one degree that the most people graduate from every semester. So it's really hard to get a job. It's a very competitive uh market.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

So you got a college town, many people every year getting marketing degrees, you got a limited group of people that are hiring for that space, and then you're sort of thrown in there trying to figure it out.

Job Hunt Frustration And A Chance Lead

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Yes. So I can get a job. Uh I guess I know now that many, many fresh grass go go through this. You get out of college thinking that, oh, I'm gonna get a job tomorrow. And not just any job, I'm gonna get a perfect job, yes, my forever job. So after a few months of not getting, I think I got one job interview during uh I don't know, it was like three or four months, I was so depressed. Uh so I had my whole life in front of me, couldn't get a job. And uh I was actually on a walk uh in a nearby uh park close to my house. And I ran into a friend, and my friend was asking what's going on, and I was like, Well, I'm so depressed because I cannot find a job. And he said, Why didn't you come and apply for a job at the company I work for? And I knew where he worked for. He worked for a small software development company, a really small software development company that uh did a lot of web applications. This is back during the internet bubble, so a lot of uh custom web applications, and those applications ran on Oracle databases and Oracle application servers, which I didn't know anything about. Uh but I think I knew enough to tell him there's no way I'm going to apply for a job there because they're not gonna hire me. Um I know how to call Pascal, but I don't know anything. I'm not a computer science mayor. Right. But he insisted, he said, uh you should do it. I want to start my own business, and you have some marketing and business background, we could start a business together, but it will help if you learn something about uh the computer science and and IT business, because then we can do this. And so he really told me the idea. So the next day I went and applied for the job and and got an interview right then and there, uh, because my friend put a good good work for me. But uh so here's the hiring manager who ended up being my boss later, looking at my resume and looking at me.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

This is great. What did he say to you?

SPEAKER_02 11:10

You're like, I cannot really offer you a job. I mean, we only hire computer science engineers in this company. The only reason why I'm interviewing you for this job position is as a favor to your friend who's a good employee of ours.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

So that's a great interview, right? You walk in and guys like, I I can't even offer you a job. Like, at least he was honest, right? You know, how many times like I back in the day conducted so many interviews, and you just know when someone walks in, uh, but you don't want to crush them right away. And you just, you know, or it was a friend wanted you to interview them, and you just did it. And you just you know early in an interview many times, and but he just boom.

The Unpaid Desk And Oracle Manuals

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Was not trying to sugarcoat it, he didn't care. Uh he he was honest. And I agree with him. It was like, right, I knew it. I that's what I told my friend. Uh, but then he went one step further and said, Listen, I'm going to give you a place to sit and a computer, so a workstation in a common area. So it was not a not even a cubicle, it was like a table with a bunch of computers. Other people were already sitting there. So you you get to sit on that computer, and I'm gonna give you a bunch of manuals. And this was Oracle PL SQL manuals, the ones you get when you go to an Oracle training education. Like they sent someone out, came back with the manuals. Those are the manuals that they gave me. And and he said, You're gonna you can be here eight to five every day, turn on that computer, use those manuals, we'll set up a connection to the database for you, and see if you can learn BL SQL. But there is no promise uh that we're we'll ever offer you a job. So this is just so that you have um I felt like he was trying to get rid of me. Like he was expecting me to say, uh, okay, thank you, I'll come back and and whatever.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Uh so basically you you he gave you a spot to to sit with the manuals and and sort of get out of my face, go sit over there. And just so everybody knows, what was the pay that you were getting to sit there and learn? Zero.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

I mean he was very clear that not only he was not willing to offer me a job, he was not giving me a salary. I mean, this was not even internship or anything. It was like you can come and sit here and hear the manual, that's it. So I went back home even more depressed than the day before, and but then I started thinking, I don't have a computer at home. I I did have a very old IBM PS2 computer running Windows 3.1 that but I didn't have I didn't have internet at home. So I said, okay, I'm gonna have a good computer, I'm going to have internet access and a place to sit, that's better than home. I could just do job hunting at at work and while they'll have me. And and yeah, I can look at the manuals and maybe I'll learn something. So I showed up the next day. Uh were they surprised that you showed up, or no, because I told my friend, hey, I'm gonna t I accept that offer. So but I guess they were surprised when my friend told them that I was willing to give it a try. Right. So I went there, I got it was like four, this thick manuals, like two inches thick each, just piled on top of one another.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:03

And if you have gone to any Oracle uh university training, you know what I'm talking about. Those are very these are those are like labs. Like every page, you have to go run an instruction or try something out. You have to build uh, in this case, an application as you're trying to learn the concepts.

unknown 15:24

Right.

Learning By Doing And Surprise Delivery

SPEAKER_02 15:25

So they gave the manuals and they set up a development environment for me. Now, I knew nothing about Oracle databases, I knew nothing about logging in into a system. I was a marketing mayor, I knew some coding again, Pascal, but I I couldn't get to that point where I was going to write code because this is all new to me. So and they didn't offer any training. Uh uh, they didn't say we're gonna give you manuals and training or a mentor or there's no one you could talk to or sort of just you're on your you could be here as long as you want, just don't bother anybody. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I I I couldn't distract others from from their work. So again, it felt like they were probably secretly making bets that this guy's not gonna last more than three or three hours. He'll be gone by lunch. Right. So the only thing I had in my favor was my friend. So he really wanted to start a job, his own company one day, and he thought I was gonna be a good, I don't know, partner or administrative assistant. I don't know. Um but so he he will get every now and then he'll walk to my uh uh desk and ask me, have you been able to log in or do you know what that statement means? And can you do you want to try this other thing?

SPEAKER_03 16:58

And was he a programmer? He knew he knew it. He knew the stuff. Yeah, he knew it.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Okay. Yeah, he was doing software development for the company. He was the technical lead. Um, and he was actually in the middle of developing a web application for the college, for the university that I graduated from, which was a big client for this small software development company. And uh he started without me knowing what I was doing, he started passing me components of that application for me to develop. So the way he will do it is he will bring some a piece of HTML, an HTML file, and then uh some PLSQL store procedure code, and he will say, Okay, I want you to save this as with a different name and look at the table and look at the columns and replace, do find and replace of the table names and column names on this HTML code, uh, and then run it, and you will see that you're now you now have uh uh a new website that queries a different table. I was like, oh cool, you can do that on HTML. Oh, you can uh programmatically do all this. I I found it exciting and interesting, and I had nothing better to do. So I started playing with that, and he kept on bringing me more stuff. Now do this, now do that. So I was learning and building something. I thought it was nothing, I thought it was a lab, I thought it was some training material he used with other employees.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Um but it wasn't. There was more to the story, yes. Yeah, to my surprise. If you like this story, make sure you like and subscribe to our podcast. So it's only two weeks later, after I joined, or after two weeks, you were sitting there for two weeks learning, helping your friend with some code, just and just all the time, just like maybe something will pop up soon somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

I was not expecting anything uh uh out of this company. Uh, but I was beginning to like what I was learning. Um two weeks later, he my friend uh calls me into his boss, who was soon to be my boss's office.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

And and just your your friend's first name. What was his first name?

First Offer: Work For Free Two More Weeks

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Alberto.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

Alberto.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Alberto. All right. Uh uh, so Alberto calls me, and uh, we walked into Genaro's office, my my boss. And uh he's presenting a it's like a a module release. He he finished the first module of whatever project he was working on, and he was about to release it to the client, but he wanted to discuss that with the boss first, present it to the boss, and I Understood that a little. I didn't know about project, software development, so uh version release, nothing like that. But I'm just sitting there asking why he wanted me to be there. And uh so the boss signs off on everything that Alberto was delivering, and yeah, good job, and let's go ahead and present it to the client and anything else. And then Alberto says, Yes, I want you to know that more I want you to know that more than half of this code was written by Luis. And you were surprised, right? I was surprised. Yeah, Naruto was surprised. I was surprised, like, I did what? I was just copy-pasting stuff and and trying to figure out how to write a SQL statement. I wasn't really coding anything that was getting sold by the company to a client. Right. So I was as surprised as as our boss and the supervisor. So we were dismissed from that uh meeting, but the next day he called me back. The uh the supervisor called me back into his office and said, Well, I think we're ready to offer you a job, um, but not for the next two weeks. So if you stay two more weeks with a salary of zero and continue developing and improving yourself, we'll offer you a job.

Ceiling Without A CS Degree

SPEAKER_03 21:32

So I did that, got the job. And and that's a job like you you said before, that uh you you enjoyed the work, right? That was interesting work. It's it's not something, even though that's sort of not what you were thinking, you had a marketing degree, you were thinking about engineering, but now here comes software development. And but it was exciting. So it was you were happy to put in. I'm sure you were happy to put in. And also with the the time you were unsuccessfully getting a job, like you're probably like, sure, I'll do another two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yeah, yeah. I'm I like, I mean, the main driver for every job and everything I do is uh if if I feel I'm capable of doing what I do well, I like that job. So I was enjoying that job because I uh to my surprise, I was able to do it well, and I was learning more. And um the part that I didn't like about that job is that I was not seen as at the same uh level as my peers. So I was the non-engineer degree employee, and that really affected every everything in my job experience in that job. I was not eligible for uh training or promotions or things at uh career advancement opportunities because I was not supposed to be there, because I didn't have a college degree to support what I was doing, even though I was doing it. Right.

unknown 23:04

Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:05

So they gave you a shot, they they but then there was a ceiling on top of that. Like you're you can get in, you can do this stuff, but you don't have you haven't checked this box. And other people have, so they get they're gonna get priority. Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

And I later in my career understood why. And this is because this is a consulting firm. So it doesn't matter what your supervisor thinks about you, it matters what the client that's buying your services thinks about you. And when they are trying to sell your services to someone else, they have like, well, we have these three, four engineers and this backlog of marketing that's very capable and can write PLC calls. And they're like, ah, and I'll pass them down.

SPEAKER_03 23:54

Yeah, I would have uh I'm like, let me talk to that guy. I don't think it's he's probably pretty creative and get stuff done. I don't know if I would hire that person, but I would definitely have that, you know, running a consulting firm or you know, and sort of talking to people and hiring other services to come in. Like that would be an interesting background to to marketing and sort of creativity, and then bringing the the scientific into it.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

And that's what it was for them and for many clients. I mean, clients would come in, new clients or prospective clients will come into the office, they'll get the tour, and they'll always stop at my desk. And the my my colleague giving the tour would say something like, uh now we have this uh marketing mayor that's actually coding. And the guy will like a freak show.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Look at this.

Love, Money Goals, And A Bigger Vision

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Really? Oh, what did you learn? So it was interesting, and it was I don't know, maybe even a selling point. Like, oh, we have very creative people. But uh, when it got to again professional uh opportunities, career opportunities, I was seen like, well, um no, we have something else for you, like uh don't try too hard, don't overstep, and and and it felt awful. I I I was I enjoyed my work, but it felt like a dead end. I'm never going to get past this zealing like you said. Um, and this is where the this turns into a love story. Because then I met a girl.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Uh it's always with a girl. It's always the plot thickened. The pot the plot thickens, yes. You met a girl.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

I really wanted to ask her to marry me, but there was no way I could ever afford uh anything with the salary I was getting at at that software development company. Which was more than zero at this time, it was more than zero, but uh it was not what not even what I could make if I had a job in my professional uh um uh area of marketing, but I couldn't get a job in that area because now I was two years after graduation with zero experience. So, like I am a computer science or software developer that has no college degree, or I'm a marketing mayor that has zero experience.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

You're screwed, man.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

I know I met this girl, I really like her, but uh I don't have anything to offer. Uh or so I thought.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

Uh you have an amazing personality and good looks, and complain.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Anyway, I I am a US citizen by birth. I have dual citizenship. My both my parents are Mexican, but I was born in Austin, Texas. And I was never there was I've never seen a motivation for me to get a job in the US until that point in time. I wanted to make more money, I wanted to get to the American dream. I asked the girl to marry me. So I started applying for job uh positions at uh uh in the United States. So I was using uh job hunting sites, and this is 1998, 1999-2000, so there weren't many. Um it was not the best uh way to apply for a job.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

Um was it like monster.com?

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Was that I I tried I used monster.com and I used DICE.com and Oracle contacted me through Dice.com.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Okay.

Oracle Calls Despite Language Barrier

SPEAKER_02 27:46

So the guy that was the hiring manager that will end up hiring me called me. Uh his name is Carl, Carl Torres. He was in Oracle Consulting, he was a practice manager at Oracle Consulting, and uh he started by sending me an email. So we had a brief conversation. And again, I didn't grow up in in the United States. So my English was limited to what I learned in school, mostly in college.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

So that is we we haven't spoken about that, but that's you mentioned that the other day. Like your English wasn't there, right? So you were very uncomfortable having and speaking to people, and and you sort of had, I guess, a competency you could understand it, but then going back and speaking a little bit short yourself.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

I yeah, you think I have an accent today? You just have to listen to me back then.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

You could have everyone has an accent except for me. I'm accent neutral. We all know that. Like the English language starts with me, and then out from there are all the accents. We're all variations uh New Jersey, North Jersey, English.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Yes. So I I could read, I could write English, I could understood 80% of uh spoken English, but I could barely uh speak in a way that would make sense to anyone. Um and so this guy, this Oracle Corporation hiring manager is contacting me via email. So I'm trying to keep the conversation to email only. I'll I'll I'll send him, I sent him an updated resume that highlighted everything that I saw in the position they were hiring for. I sent him an email with my little story so far, two years into my career. I didn't I did not want to talk about my education. I didn't tell him that I was not a computer science or anything. I I just excluded that. Um but I talked about all the projects. Hey, I built this application for this client and this other customer. One of the clients was AT ⁇ T Mexico. So, hey, this is a big company, I'm gonna talk about that. And and he was really interested. And he said, Hey, yeah, I think you are a good fit for this position, but I want to talk to you. I was like, uh, there's nothing.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Yeah, we don't have to. Come on, let's chat, let's just go on instant messaging. Aim. Let's go on AOL instant message.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yes, ICQ and AOL. That's what we had back then.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

And uh so he kept on insisting. Like, I really have to talk to you. So and let me know what time I because he called and he would leave messages.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

And uh I was not he was calling your house, and your mom was writing messages down, and you were ignoring them. Like, let's call it. I was replying to email, I was not ignoring them, but I would call so this poor guy's calling you and calling you. That's a love story, right? And but this boy is not responsible.

Painful Interviews And Persistence

SPEAKER_02 30:58

So it got to the point where I could no longer say no. He was really interested, and he he he he made it sound like unless I talk to you, there's nothing else. Uh we're not moving forward. Right. So I got into my room, locked the room, waited for a call, and had my first interview ever in English. So I've never had to have uh uh a conversation in English. And um it went awful. I uh it was very, very frustrating because I could understand most of what he's at. I understood the questions, I understand, I understood where he was going to by asking the question. I I knew what he was expecting me to answer. I knew the answer, but I couldn't say it. I couldn't say it in a way that would sound smart and professional. So I was trying to be funny. I would say things like uh I sound a lot smart in Spanish, you have to believe me. And obviously, he he did not speak Spanish. Nope. That worked. All right, so he was very respectful, but he seemed concerned. Um so at the end of the interview, he said, Okay, well, uh, thank you. That's it, thank you for your time. Like we decide to move forward, uh, we're gonna schedule a second call. This is a process, and multiple calls that you have, and filters you have to go through. Um so you'll hear from us. Thank you. That was it.

SPEAKER_00 32:31

So I And what are you thinking? What are you thinking after you hung up the phone? I wanted to cry. I was like, I I felt not just frustrated.

SPEAKER_02 32:41

And frustrated is when you have an interview that you are very capable and you're the person for the job, and you excel the uh the interview, but still you feel like you you don't have uh I mean it's very competitive. There are other good candidates. Here I knew it was not a good candidate because I cannot I I can I can uh speak the language. So I felt bad for applying. I felt bad for trying. I was like, what am I doing? There's no way they're ever going to call me back. Right. And I was ready to forget about it, and I'm just gonna keep working on uh maybe I should apply for a job somewhere else here in in my city. But then they called. They called me, he called me again and said, Well, uh, we want to schedule a technical interview, so this is the second step, and we're gonna have a technical manager call you, and this is all technical, so they're going to be uh testing you on Oracle databases, Oracle SQL software development, SQL development. It was mostly SQL development. And I said, okay, fine. That went even worse. Technical interview was probably worse somehow.

SPEAKER_03 33:56

Again, was it the language barrier? Like you you knew the tech technical, right? It was just the language barrier.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Yeah, and that's what it got worse because the guy that was interviewing me, which was later to become my good friend and mentor, he's from India. And he had a fake Indian accent. Like I could barely where I could understand Carl, I couldn't understand Ravi. I couldn't understand a word, I couldn't understand the questions. Uh, he had to repeat himself over and over again. He had to start giving me part of the answer so that a light bulb would go on and say, Oh, okay, okay. I think I know. I think I know what the question is, and I think I know the answer. Right. But I I cannot say in English. I I I I don't have the vocabulary to explain the answer I know. I I know I have the right answer. Please believe me.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

I'm much smarter in Spanish, I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Oh, I I uh to to to him I said uh you have to believe me that my sequel is better than my English.

SPEAKER_03 35:02

Uh that's good. All right, that's a good line. That's a good line.

Unexpected Offer And Life-Changing Move

SPEAKER_02 35:07

So he just laughed. Uh but again, the the second interview ended just like the first one. I felt like there's no way that they will ever call back. And why do I keep doing this to myself? Why do I keep trying?

SPEAKER_03 35:21

Now, at this point, had you asked the girl to marry you. No, still haven't.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

I cannot even do this.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Yeah, no, I I had that under uh my pocket, like if I can do this, if I can get a good job, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

Right, right. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Otherwise, I'll just stay here and work for that.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

There's a lot riding on this job. It's not just a paycheck, and it's happiness for the rest of my life, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:00

So yeah, it it started becoming less and less uh likely that I would get this or any job in the in the US because of the language barrier. Um I was very surprised when they called again. Uh my hiring manager called again and said, You're going to get one final call from the regional manager. Uh, she's my boss, and she's going to call you to offer you a position. I was like, Wow.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

All right. I was I was very, very surprised.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

Uh so she called, she offered me the job. The salary was more than four times what I was making back then in in Mexico.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

So I was like, Alright. Yeah, that's they should they would do it. Um did you play with your call? Were you like, oh, I'll think about it. Maybe how long do I have to give you an answer?

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Yeah, no, I I I I was speechless. I was I was trying not to say anything that would make her change her mind. Like, okay, okay, yes, sure, okay, yes. But yeah, that sounds that sounds perfect. And and then she uh towards the end of a conversation, she says, okay, now we need to start talking about your work visa. Because you're a Mexican citizen, and so we need to work go through that uh uh process. And then I realized then that I never told her or never never told the hiring manager that I was a dual citizen. Hey, I'm a US citizen. So she thought, okay, that's great. Uh that's gonna make things a lot easier for us, and yeah, then you should expect the offer letter on the mail within the next week or so. And when I hung up, I was thinking, wow. Um I was my thought was I don't have the the computer science degree, I don't have the language, but maybe they're interested because I'm I'm a US citizen and it's gonna be easier to hire someone and and train them up for the position than go through the work visa uh process. But then I realized, well, no, I mean they were willing to work through that with the right candidate. And I was feeling like, well, almost any of my peers and the software development company I work for are more qualified than me for this job. Because, yeah, the English is probably as bad as mine, but they have a computer science degree.

unknown 38:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Some of them have years of experience. But I got the job. Um, and I got the job because I was, I guess, naive enough to keep trying.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

You didn't know any better, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:00

And I was in love.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

I really wanted to get the I really want to get married, but I need a job.

Leaving The First Firm And Perspective

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Yes. So so yeah, I I I remember I drove to the local UPS store because I didn't want to wait for the driver to bring the the job offer. So I I I was tracking the letter, and when the letter was in in town, I drove to the uh UPS office and I asked for the letter so it wouldn't be delivered. I opened it right in and then I couldn't believe my eyes. Like I had the Oracle stationary and it was a formal job offer letter. That's awesome. For someone else, but I got it for some reason. I thought it should be for someone else.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

I I've heard stories where people got the wrong offer letters, and I've sent those out myself. Wait a second. This is new. No, you got the right offer letter.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

I got the right offer letter. I just felt undeserving for the for the job. So uh I had given a uh I one of the happiest days of my life is when I walked into my supervisor's office, the same guy that offered me the zero salary job for a month, and I told him, hey I'm here to put in my two week notice. And he said, no no no no no let's talk. Really valuable asset for the company and we want to uh we want to counter what I would offer you have. I was like Did you tell him? Yeah I didn't give him any figures but I said you you can't why where are you gonna go work? Who are you going to be working for? I said Oracle and he goes Oracle Oracle like D E Oracle Take me with you so I was like yeah Oracle and I'm moving to San Antonio Texas for this job and uh it's a very good opportunity. So then he changed the argument he was like well once you're there if you see any opportunities for I was like yeah sure yeah I'm sure I'll remember that listen he he um he was tough on you but he gave you a shot right that's he did that's great I have a I got a job at Oracle because he gave me an opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

Yeah and I was I don't know if we should say brave enough or naive enough to take it well I think there's two parts of that he you you got that job at Oracle one of the reasons is he gave you the opportunity and the other is you seized it. Like a lot of people myself maybe included might have said I'm not gonna sit here and learn some stuff. I'm gonna go home and like find a job and and make money right the longer I'm here so you invested in yourself which is great.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Yep.

Building An EBS Career Across Firms

SPEAKER_03 41:59

Yeah and um yeah it was surprising to me that um I was learning not only not just learning the the the trade uh learning to be a uh developer but learning that I actually enjoyed it uh I mean later on I was thinking I should have gone into computer science I'd I would have enjoyed that uh but I didn't know uh was dad happy that you got a job at Oracle oh that was also a very good part because by then by the time I got a job at uh Oracle my older siblings the engineers they had their own jobs and I was making probably I was let's just say I was making more than them so I would I will uh um I will text my dad during the day or email him or call him uh just for fun like hey uh you know I'm making more than so and so you're brother I'm making and I'm not an engineer so yeah that lasted for several years and every family reunion that was a topic of conversation that listen if there's one thing in life that I know it's when you can hold something over your siblings and like bust their chops a little bit about anything it doesn't matter. It could be your favorite sports team or your job or whatever uh it's required especially number three right because you're right in the middle.

SPEAKER_02 43:24

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 43:25

So you get it from both sides.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Trying to prove yourself trying to do your own thing come with come up with something new like oh uh that position is taken that other position is taken I need to come up with something and and that this gave me the the opportunity so so so you you and we could fast forward here because I think you're you're at Oracle as a consultant you're not doing LMS audits right you are in a different part of the group you probably never heard of LMS until you got to Oracle at some point. No one um so I I was in Oracle consulting doing e-business with implementation. So that's connection that's how it started yeah even after I left Oracle I continued working for other consulting firms like Centure included every job after my first job at Oracle was an Oracle EBS either implementation or post production support was always EBS related and that's why uh in 2013 Oracle LMS an Oracle LMS recruiter called me so you so you were with how long were you with Oracle first their first stint?

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Two years two years and then you left and and how long were you gone?

From Implementations To Licensing Reality

SPEAKER_02 44:49

10 years 10 years doing Oracle uh development for non-Oracle consulting firms got it got it okay so it was all EBS my LinkedIn profile and my resumes it was all EBS I can do all EBS multiple modules uh customization implementation uh project management production support and and that was that was my career I I never thought I was going to get into licensing I it was actually a surprising and not in a good way like I was uh shocked when I started learning licensing about decisions I've made that and how that that how those would have affected our clients because I knew nothing about licensing. So I you probably caused a lot of problems you probably did great work did great installs implementations clients were very happy and then they got LMS'd a while later right I mean you have heard clients you have a client said oh no we don't need uh uh licensing compliance consulting because we had this consulting firm and we had Oracle consulting do the implementation for us of course we have all the licensing we need well I was that consultant that knew nothing about licensing and was making decisions on behalf of a client that put them out of compliance this is new information for me I didn't I didn't put that together but now that you explained it it makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

I I thought I was the only one at this company that caused problems for people with audits but I didn't realize you did as well so welcome to the club. I'm all here we're gonna get money by causing the problem and we're gonna make money by fixing the problem thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Yeah just like you craig I'm atoning for my sins that's awesome so do was there a like an another like how did were you looking at Oracle again?

SPEAKER_03 46:56

Did you see this job? Did was it a friend? Was it Alberto get back into the Oracle world?

Recruited To Oracle LMS And WFH Choice

SPEAKER_02 47:06

I was getting I was close to being burned out as a consultant. So I was traveling a lot uh I already had my first three kids I have four kids but my first four uh were uh um already born and I was trying to juggle family life and consulting traveling a lot and this is this is the girl from earlier in the story right all right yeah we have to make that connection yes that no that girl she said no and this is new no it's the same person yes she said yeah she said yes all right you've got for 22 years all right congratulations thank you and uh yeah I wanted to get out of consulting I wanted to to find something else and I was already in the process I left Accenture uh got another job and I was still looking for something better uh applying for jobs looking at opportunities when the Oracle LMS recruiter called and what caught my attention is that this was a work from home position this is before the pandemic so that those were hard to get so they called you they just a recruiter found you through some avenue and hey this is an interesting person to talk to I think it was through LinkedIn so but they they contacted me you know I've never been recruited no in 30 years I have never had anyone call me up and say hey there's a job I think you might be good at like ever and I'm like what is that I think only the first and the second job at Oracle I was recruited. Everything else I applied for okay well even the first one I applied for but this last job the last time I when I went back to Oracle they called me they called me they actually I got an email on my personal email account and uh which they probably found in a resume I had somewhere and um yeah they the interview process started I was surprised that they wanted me for a licensing position that I didn't know anything about I was very honest about a I don't know licensing or contract and they said yes but this is really a technical position because we want uh someone that understands the product so that when we're talking to our clients about their contract we have a technical expert to back up our claims that they're out of compliance. Right. It was really interesting but it was an opportunity for me to work from home and spend more time with the my wife and kids um that was the selling point I'm uh I was ready to accept the position when they said this is a work from home position. So I so you've got very interesting criteria like that's a that's common these days like hey I want to work from home um so you wanted the easiest degree you wanted to work from home so I see a pattern here Louise I guess I'm I'm lucky like that because uh hey listen why not if why not you right go for it yeah so so yeah that's uh coming back to Oracle and and uh working with the global man uh licensing license management services group taught me a lot about uh Oracle contracts uh it was difficult a difficult position to be in because sometimes I not sometimes every time I saw the client's point when there was a disagreement with Oracle I kind of agree with the client the client would say like something like we're not using that product we don't have so many users and I could see that was true that yeah I mean there's enough evidence here to see that they're not overutilizing the subscription or the program but then it was explained to me from the sales perspective that yes but the contract doesn't count who's using it it counts how many users you have.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

So Oracle has the power to ask for this whether it's uh requesting the client to purchase uh more software or just get uh gain leverage on negotiating and that could be your classic people retired we just never shut off their access it could be you know they they set up responsibilities in a in a certain way that created more uh users than than there actually were um it's some of the things we talk about in software asset management are across vendors like the these are the kinds of things that yeah it's right contractually but it's kind of feels yucky.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Yep and yeah so then I got to join Palace Compliance the best company in the world and so I got to sit on the other side of a table and I was already in agreement with the client so it was an easy position to be in like okay yeah I I already know that you're telling the truth. I already know from a technical perspective that you don't need that those licenses. Now let's find a way to support that contractually or let's align your current deployment to what your contacts ask so you can save some money and put some money back in your I still whether it's LMS or some other firm Broadcom or Red Hat I I still think we're on the other side those folks at those companies agree with us.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

And I think they go home and they have a drink and be like Palestine was right but I can't say that like I just know that's happening.

Inside LMS: Contracts vs. Usage

SPEAKER_02 53:00

They're all like yeah that's one of the things I learned uh uh in college and with my marketing degree that you need to build long-term relationships with your clients so if you screw them up on a day-to-day basis that's not gonna last right so even if you make more money today if you're building the relationship that's always good business in the long run um and that's the way software vendors good software vendors should treat the clients right right and I think you know definitely um something we've experienced here is you know we we treat our clients really well and they're here for 10 years 12 years 13 years right they don't go away because uh we we got their back jack um but I just thought that was a great story of but just one more thing about Oracle when you joined the LMS team did you were you creating programs from scratch?

SPEAKER_03 54:00

Were you like opening up manuals again to figure out how stuff like or did you just like jump into a machine and and and get it like what was your role there?

Creating Programs And Becoming EBS Lead

SPEAKER_02 54:12

So it was both I was creating uh a new program by opening up books by looking at the other programs and try trying to understand how is this done. So I was hired into a position that I didn't have expertise for. But this time I was given a salary and I was given uh mentorship and and uh an opportunity to learn from other programs and other program leads that were already um running their their programs one of them was eBusiness with and um so it was a a a two-way street I was able to provide a lot of technical knowledge for the product because you would think that being Oracle everybody knows Oracle but it's very into departments like sales and licensing know a lot about their stuff but they don't know the product itself so from a technical perspective. So I was able to help them understand how is the client using this product and how that uh translates into licensing and even licensing strategies for for the product um supporting EBS which was my expertise and then at the same time developing a new program and that was PeopleSoft and agile peoplesoft and agile PLM so that Oracle LMS could start um an uh auditing program for those products. And uh so it was a lot of learning uh what's new um um in less than a year they uh assigned me as the program manager for eBusiness suit because of my eBusiness suit expertise and and it it was I I love that uh because I again I knew how to do that well I could talk eBusiness suit I could talk to clients I could talk to sales I could talk to the lawyers uh and and either defend Oracle's position contractual position or defend the client trying to find common ground um or whatever was required uh uh from Oracle for that particular engagement right now that's uh that that's a it's it it was a great story the her the first time I heard it it got better um we we there's more stuff we need to talk about your driving your brother's car we didn't talk about that there's there's more there'll be another episode one day um I also love that uh there's no like mold like you know in order to do this work because now software has to management and sort of IT has to management is a whole career you you don't have to have a computer science degree or you know there's different ways I was a history major right so it's sort of we all got here through different paths and it's one of the things I love you just you meet so many different people with different uh backgrounds so thanks for sharing that story. Um yeah I think it's it's about with being willing to do the hard work being willing to do um uh what sometimes you don't want to uh the hard work um that's something I I think that this current generation it's a little bit more off uh it's not easy and sometimes you feel like you're not it feels like a dead end career like it felt for me. But uh hard work always wins. I mean it's it's a competitive advantage all the time when you're willing to do the hard work.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

Luce I I never met the man but I'm gonna say you probably sound a lot like your father. I love him yeah I learned a lot from him I'm feeling that is something your dad said to you 50,000 times growing up and now it just comes out of your mouth and now your kids every day they're hearing that going oh my God dad shut up that works.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Yeah the only reason why I even have a college degree even if it's marketing is because my dad made me because you were afraid of your father, right?

SPEAKER_03 58:21

That's how life works. We are afraid of our parents and we do things and then we realize but they they knew what they were talking about. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

Yeah yeah I owe him that and a lot more so who who um we have to wrap things up but who do we do next?

SPEAKER_03 58:36

What's the next Palestade origin story we should do? Who who on the team who do you want to hear about who?

SPEAKER_02 58:43

Wow uh I guess Max Slowbeck I don't know if you have a week I knew you were going to say Max yes we'll get max to do this yes similar I mean he has also some nice plots and twists and it's just stupid Greg I'm not doing this yeah but uh oh that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 59:05

Well listen thank you for sharing I thought that was great um you know and thanks everyone for for joining uh you know like and subscribe and tell your friends and uh you know Luis is um you know heads up obviously our EBS practice and and helps with uh audit defense for for all of our vendors um you know he's involved in all aspects of the organization and you're on LinkedIn so if anybody is out there and wants to talk to you about EBS or anything like that they can always connect with you on LinkedIn and sort of have those conversations right I'm assuming I just offered that I didn't even ask you for that you're taking your head up and down so I'm gonna say that we're not editing that but maybe we will who knows yeah we're always always happy to help thank you thank you and thanks everybody for joining uh and we'll see you next time on the world's greatest podcast thanks Greg