Braiding, Trail Running, and Movement as Mediation with Amos Lozano

Amos Lozano goes by many names. From Coach Famous Amos to The Juiced Up Ninja, and, perhaps unofficially, the back-to-back 53K champion at the San Antonio Road Runners’ Rocky Horror Trail Run. 

But at the center of all the monikers—all of the accolades—is a devout student of movement; a curious student of routine. Amos is generous with his wisdom and knowledge, as evidenced by his commitment to helping other athletes improve and by the principles that guide his coaching practice.

While we chat about ultrarunning’s distance climb past 250 to 300 miles, Amos said he is comfortable with distances of 100 miles and under, but that has not stopped him from supporting others. After pacing at this year’s Arizona Monsterr 300, later this year, Amos will provide pacing duties at the Moab 240.

We close out the interview talking about Amos’ Native American heritage and the respect for running as a spiritual practice. Even down to the braiding of his hair before a race, Amos will tell you it is about the process of getting to the finish line, even sometimes alongside the ancestors who ran before him. 

Before our conversation, Amos chatted about his running essentials on the ULTRA EQUIPMENTS PODCAST from good friend of the show, Javian Quinones. Show U:EQ all of the love. Javian is doing wonderful work in this space, particularly in branding and activations—more from him on Strides in the near future.

Follow Amos on Instagram and Strava

Follow Strides on Instagram and Subtstack

Check out Strides on Apple Podcast and Spotify

Got a topic idea? Feel free to leave a review and email any feedback to stridestrailpod@gmail.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And I'm actually, my family is actually from this region of Texas, South Texas, North Mexico. So specifically like this land, like my people ran on. Um, and so I I feel a deep connection to the land itself, which draws me more to the nature. And that's why you might have noticed or or seen that I braid my hair for every run. And I braid my hair as as a way to pay honor and respect um uh to my Native American ancestry. And also um, you know, that's that's what uh some of the Native American warriors would do when they would go to battle. Um, and that's what I kind of feel like I'm doing when I go uh go do a race.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to Stride Mason here. Uh this interview is with Amos Lozano. Uh some might know him as the juiced up ninja, coach Amos Amos, uh maybe the two-time back-to-back Rocky Horror 53k uh winner. Um he's got many names, and he's a really solid dude. This was an awesome interview. We talked uh, I think for almost an hour, um, and it was a wonderful conversation. We covered the gamut, how Amos got into coaching, um, how he's gone running, uh his unique approach to kind of some of the races that he's done, some of his big aspirations, and and kind of tail off towards the end about the um importance of uh spiritual uh running as a spiritual practice, which as many of you probably know if you've listened to any of these episodes on Rides is a topic I'm deeply fascinated in. So I hope you guys enjoyed this interview. It was a really good conversation, and I'll see you on the next one. Peace. Well, I'm excited um to get to know you a little bit better over this. Your uh content came up on my radar on uh around the time of uh Bandera earlier this year, which is kind of in the in the social media kind of craze. Um you know, so excited to kind of talk about, you know, obviously your journey as a runner, kind of what that means for you, uh, what coaching, how that kind of plays into it a little bit. Uh this is kind of coming on the heels of um your uh interview and and and spot on uh Javion's podcast, uh Ultra Equipment. So shout out to to that show and and to and to Javian. Um I kind of like to start all these interviews with the same two questions for everybody. Um I feel like it it just kind of sets the tone really nicely um for the interview. But um easy, easy kind of question off the rip is is how did you find running?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

How did I find running? Hmm. Do you mean ultra running or just running?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

I I think if it's different for both, you know, two stories, if it's kind of similar circumstances, then you know, however, however you see fit.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

I got you. So if you say just running, then how I found it was um I used to like to race kids uh on the playground at in kindergarten. It was like my favorite thing to do was just like just raise kids like to the water fountain and back. Um I even uh there was a girl that I that I had a crush on when I was five. And uh I knew this other guy, Randy, uh, had a crush on her too. And so I I went up to him and I was like, hey bro, like I'll race you for her. And whoever is the first one to like get to the water fountain, like gets the girl, you know? And so that's like one of the first stories that comes to mind. I ended up winning uh that race, my first first place win. Um, of course, we didn't even talk to the girl about it, so that's a whole nother separate issue, right? But uh that's what comes to mind for running. And then I've been an athlete my entire life. Uh I was a gymnast growing up. Uh, so I'm a tumbler doing flips, back flips, uh, front flips, all different kinds of flips, handstands. That's my main skill set and main uh uh yeah, kind of like background. Um, and then I played football for 10 years, and that was my passion growing up. Uh so I'm like a quick, agile uh sort of athlete, but I always hated like running miles, you know, like endurance things. And so when I found ultra running, it was basically um through, I mean, I guess like a lot of people with David Goggins, right? Like I first got exposed to the idea of a hundred-mile trail race through his books uh that I read. Um, but I started trail running a little bit before that. Uh I used to compete in American Ninja Warrior, and I blew out my ACL in one of those competitions. And in the recovery, I realized I took for granted running. And so I decided when I could run again that I would run simply because I was given the gift to run, unlike a lot of other people in the world. And and then it was shortly after that I read Goggin's books and kind of got inspired to like want to attempt a hundred miler. So that's kind of what what got me into running. Two kind of separate stories that got me into just running in general, and then one that got me into like trail running and ultra running.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Yeah, no, thanks, man. I I think it um I like childhood story. That's very nice. Um, and then I I too, I think it's interesting too, just to kind of hear from folks that that that um ultra running or trail running, uh running that's that's you know, um finding finding that type of uh I guess outlet, so to speak. Some for some folks it's um you know goes back to sports in high school or college, other people it's you know post post injury, um, maybe like you're talking about, or you know, kind of people just you know wanting to try it for health or trying it for as a spiritual practice, like what have you. I think it's uh I think it's certainly really interesting just how folks kind of come to it. Um I think you're the first one to to mention uh to to mention David Goggins on the podcast. Um and he's still doing his thing too, you know, um at his age, which is insane. Um what kind of when you think of so are you are you from San Antonio?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, born and raised here in San Antonio. Um I'm 33, I'll be 34 next month, and I grew up in the northeast side of town, graduated from Madison High School.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Nice, okay, sweet. So local. Um what kind of, I guess, when you think of um like the roads and the the I guess maybe trails more so in this case, um, that that have kind of made you as a runner, uh, maybe have kind of taught you a lesson a little bit or have um you know kicked your ass for for lack of a better term, what what are kind of some of those ones that come to mind for you? Uh like trails that I rant here. Trails that trails that you've run, I mean maybe trails that you've repeated, you know, tried to PR on, maybe, you know, you know, a favorite or or not favorite hill uh in in San Antonio or in Texas. It you know, it doesn't have to be here in San Antonio, but there's some something that comes to mind.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, I think the first one that comes to mind is uh the trail at Eisenhower Park. Um it kind of has a special place in my heart for a few reasons. Um, one, it was my first ultra trail race that I ever ran was there. Um, and then two, I have won the Rocky Horror 53k the past two years in a row on that trail. And then three, it's a really tough trail. And uh super rocky and it's super technical, which I love. I love technical, rocky terrain, um, and a lot of you know downhill, rocky terrain. I love that. But the uphills like really kick my ass too. And so, you know, that's that's a really tough one. Uh, I remember going into my 100-mile prep before I knew that there was a race there. Um, I remember thinking, if I could run this 10 times, like I would feel, first of all, that'd be like, I couldn't even fathom running that 10 times because running it like twice when I was just starting out was like super challenging, which is like a little over six miles. Um but I was thinking in my head, if I could run this 10 times, I think I would be ready to run 100 miles, maybe, you know, and that's still only like 30 something miles. Um, but at least on such a difficult terrain, I would feel confident, you know, in my fitness level if I could do that. Turns out there was a race there. And once I found out that there was a race there, and it just so happened to be 10 laps of that trail, which is exactly what I had in mind, I was like, well, I I have to do that now. Um, so that's one that comes to mind. Uh, I don't know if you know about Hippie Hill. Um yeah, Hippie Hill's uh also a good one because it's it's also super tough. And I I like to do the Hippie Hill challenge. Um, I did it this year and I got 27 miles there, which is a PR for me. Um, but that's also just like hill repeats on that thing are just brutal, but but I also love it. You know, it's like a love hate. So those two, those two come to mind. Nice, very nice.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Where uh what was the when did you do your first ultra? What year was that?

SPEAKER_00 9:16

2023. Um, yeah, is when I did uh Rocky Horror for the first time. Uh got second place in it, and then that was also um the next month was my first hundred mile attempt. Uh and I DNF'd at mile 75. That was the Dinosaur Valley Hunter Miler.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Um have you kind of since gone back to the 100-mile distance and and finished that?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Oh yeah, for sure. The next year, 24, I went back to Dinosaur Valley and got it done. Yeah, I had to. Nice. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

So so I'm just kind of getting the the picture of this timeline. So so first ultra in 2023, next month you you've got a hundred one first hundred mile attempts, DNF, come back this next year, finish the hundred mile, and then uh in 2024 is your that'd be your second um time at Rocky Horror. And that's you get first, and then you get first again this this last year, if I'm not mistaken, right? Right, yep, you got it right. Awesome. Nice, sweet. Talk about so I mean, just kind of in the picture of San Antonio, you know, anybody who's listening to this that isn't isn't from here and never has never run here, um, Ivanhoe Park is is kind of one of the go-to spots for for trail runners um on the in in the northern part of um San Antonio. Uh has uh a nice, I think it's like a like three and a half almost four mile loop that you can do, and there's kind of some back half that has these kind of crazy hills that you can do and it connects right to the greenway too. So like if you wanted to get kind of extra, extra crazy, you can you can add add that to the mix, but it's it's kind of a go-to spot when it comes to to to uh trail, but also uh kind of training for elevation a little bit. You're out there repeating those hills, um, trying to kind of, you know, if you're aiming aiming for races that are, you know, outside of Texas, maybe in the mountains or stuff like that, you gotta try to replicate what you have. And Eisenhower is kind of one of those places. Um talk a little bit about that race specifically last year. I think it was uh it didn't get rained out, but it I think it the rain kind of pushed the start time a little bit back and really kind of made for some some fun uh muddy uh mud muddy time spent on the course. So so what was that experience like coming back in 2 PDM?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Dude, it was brutal. It was brutal last year. Um, you know, I had storm pretty much all night. Um yeah, it's a 3.3 mile trail that they uh that they put together for that race that kind of combines a few of the different trails at Eisenhower Park. Um it's called Rocky Horror uh because it's done the weekend before Halloween and it's super rocky. Um so probably two, probably at least two miles, maybe even a little more, 2.2, 2.3 of those are pretty much all just rock and technical. Um which I love, like I mentioned, but you know, when it's wet and it's been raining all day, it makes for even more challenge. It's very slippery, it's very uh, you got to really watch your footing, you know, everything's shifting. Um, and then the last mile of that loop is usually a pretty chill, like almost gradual downhill, just dirt that you can really kind of let loose on. But with all that rain, it was just like ankle deep mud for that last mile. So what was usually like the easiest mile actually made it probably the toughest mile because every single step, your foot is just like sliding a few inches in each direction. Um, you're at one point, you know, it started to dry out a little bit, which made them the mud thick. It almost sucked my shoe off at one point, you know. So then there was that. Then it started pouring down again, which was actually kind of a blessing because it loosened up that thick mud. Um, but then you're just you know, you're just wet the whole time. Your shoes are full of not just water, but mud. Um, and it's just slick, you know, and so it was it was intense, it was brutal, it was definitely different than the year before, where you know, it was pretty dry, um, a little humid. Um, and you know, you you didn't have to worry about the the loose footing and the slippery footing, but I still got a PR time even in the wet, crazy conditions, which would even surprise me. Um I didn't I didn't think I was gonna be able to really uh you know keep my pace up for in that kind of conditions, but I was able to. Um I was racing a guy named Carlos who who's kind of up and coming in the scene too, really strong runner uh as well. And uh him and I were kind of back and forth the first three laps, and then uh then I took the lead and kept it there. But yeah, they ended up pushing that start time uh back, I think an hour uh to try to avoid some of the rain, which didn't work. It started raining like the sixth lap or something like that. Um, and then in doing so, they actually shortened it from 10 laps to nine laps, which um I was like, yo, I came here to do 10 laps. So so I finished the nine and I went around for another another tenth lap and got my 10 in and got the full 33 miles. But yeah, that trail is uh when it's dry, it's tough, you know. So when you add the slick rock and you have a really big climb that's basically like like climbing a natural staircase made out of rocks and logs and stuff. Um, and then you have a descent that's very rocky and and and when it's wet, you know, it's it's very tough. But um like you mentioned, it's a good place to get that that elevation gain uh if you're working towards any races that are in the mountains or that have significant elevation gain. And um, that's kind of why I was thinking, you know, even before I ran it the first time as a race, doing it 10 times would be good uh because Dinosaur Valley had a good amount of elevation gain in it. So I was like, I need not just flat miles, I need a lot of elevation. So yeah, that's Eisenhower. And then I guess just touching on like you mentioned, kind of San Antonio in general. Um, I feel like people really underestimate San Antonio's like trail scene. Um, everybody always thinks about Austin, and you know, Austin has some pretty cool trails with the greenbelt, but it's really only in like the south part of Austin. If you're like any other part of Austin, like up north or east or even west, there's not a lot of options. Um, versus San Antonio, like we're pretty well-rounded, like almost all around the city. Um, we seem to have some pretty good trails. Most of them are on the outskirts, uh, kind of along 1604. Um, but I run, you know, I try to run them all. I try to not run the same trail uh twice in a row in my weeks. So I also really love uh Friedrich, uh Government Canyon is one of my favorites. Um obviously McAllister Park or the Prickly Pear Races, which I've done a couple years as well. Um, but that one's just you know uh more beginner-friendly, less technical, less elevation gain. So that one's really good for new people to trail. Um there's a good one, Mud Creek Park. I don't know if you've heard of or been to that one. I've been running there since before they made it like an actual park. That was actually where I kind of first started trail running when I would just run like two, three miles. UmP Schnappel Park's another really good one. Um running the hills out at uh man, I always forget the name of this one. It's far out west or northwest. Um Pearsall, Pearsall has some pretty big hills uh if you want to get some elevation gain in. But yeah, there's a lot of options as far as trails go that I think a lot of people don't realize. And then of course, Greenbelt, you know, or like not the Greenbelt. Yeah, I guess it's the Salado Creek Trail and you know the paved trail that pretty much connects all of San Antonio and connects to a lot of these parks that I just talked about. It kind of puts them all together with a paved trail. So you have that option as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Yeah, well, I I mean, I think so, like on the kind of on the northwest side of town, there's a there's a really nice way you can start. I think the trailhead is called Fox Park near UTSA, where you can get on it's near the trailhead. Um it's mostly like single track, like bike routes, but I mean that's that's that's prime for runners as well. But it you can take that through like Bamberger to the south, all the way to OP Schnabel and then a loop back. I don't know the the I think I did it once, so I don't remember what the distance was. Um and you could probably even go further too as well. Uh that's kind of one reason why I just love Strava, both from like a as kind of like an archive, so to speak, but also just to like kind of see like like oh my god, I've never seen like somebody's you know, somebody runs around, I'm like, that looks really cool. And like I feel like I've saved so many routes and found so many new things just by way of like seeing how people kind of explore and and and do their thing on their feet. Um you you had a you had a really good breakdown on your Instagram about kind of the the kind of mile-by-mile um uh uh breakdown from this most recent Rocky horror, and and I'll link that in the show notes for people to look at because it's kind of a nice picture, so to speak, for for the race. And um uh yeah, but I mean like also like you mentioned, uh those kind of beginner-friendly uh routes were like those I when I lived still lived at home uh before I moved out. I lived on the on the kind of the north side of town and Mud Creek Park and McAllister and Panther Springs, um a nice little four-mile loop out there. Like those were kind of my bread and butter before I kind of graduated up to like uh Friedrich or um uh Eisenhower or the power lines and stuff like that. So it's it's you know a natural progression a little bit, but um uh there is a um there is oh I know what I wanted to ask you, and this is this is this is because it's kind of a recency thing. Um describe beach to bay for me because I've had I had several friends run this. This happened just a couple weeks ago, I think maybe a week ago or so down in Corpus Christi. And you kind of have a unique approach to it's how I understand it is it's a relay race, but you kind of have a unique approach to to how you run the race. So talk a little bit about what that race looks like and and how how you how you approach it.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah, for sure. Man, the Beach of Bay is is such a vibe. It the energy of that race is so awesome uh because it is a relay uh for the most part. Um this is the this past one, it was, yeah, like you mentioned a week and a half ago, um, was their 49th one. And it's one of the largest, it might even be the largest relay marathon in the country. And so it draws like 30,000 people out for the weekend in Corpus, and probably 95% or 98% of the people uh go there to run the marathon in teams of six, so it's broken up into six legs, and uh there's a beach section that it starts on that's usually like 3.5 miles, but this year they cut it short, it was like 1.9 miles. Um, but yeah, that was actually my very first marathon ever. Um, was about a month into training for the Hunter Miler. Um, and I was like, well, let me go get my first marathon in. And my family were asking if we wanted to go run the beach today as a team, and I was like, you know what? I think I'll just make this my first marathon um and just use it as a training run, basically. And so yeah, I run the full marathon, you know, solo, and this was my fourth year running it. And aside from that very first year, that was my first time running, you know, 26 miles. Um, every year after that, I decided I was gonna make it what I call the Beach Debate 50K, which is an unofficial, you know, race that I'm the only person so far that runs it. I try to get a couple other people to join. And basically I run the full marathon and go for a PR, which the past three years uh in a row, I've gotten a PR on my marathon. So I really like push my limits and red line it. And then uh at the finish line, I take, you know, five minutes, six minutes, kind of refresh, get some fuel in me, and then I turn around and I head back into the course. And run an extra five miles to make it a 50K. Um, so I just do that just because um I don't I'm an ultra runner. Like I'm not a marathon runner. I I don't really I don't train for this marathon in the sense of like I I like train, I switch up my training block to marathon training. I don't do that, I just keep my ultra training, and then I'm like, well, let me just see what I can do when I let it loose on a marathon. Um so I I just identify as like I run ultra distances, you know, and so and why not, you know, and one of my favorite things about doing that is once I finish and I turn around, I'm running, you know, against the runners that are coming in on their last leg. Um and they see I got the finished medal, they see I've got the full marathon bib, and it inspires a lot of them. They're a lot of them are very vocal. Um, and they're like, they're like, dude, like you're still out here running, like you already finished the marathon, you're still running, like I gotta finish this, you know. If you can still be running, then I for I can keep running. Um, you know, that I love that. And then I'll run like two and a half to three miles in, like back in, and then I'll turn around to run the second half of the extra five miles. So now I'm running with the runners and I reduce down my pace, you know, like this year I PR'd at and it was a 730 pace I was able to hold um for the full marathon. But then when I'm doing these extra five, I dial it back to like what is my 100K uh pace, basically, like a 10, 30 to 11 minute pace. And so now I'm like chilling, you know, um, and I get to just kind of run slow with the runners that are that are either struggling or they're just slower runners, and I get to encourage them and and cheer them on. Some people it's their first marathon that they're finishing, and uh, you know, just give them some encouragement. So yeah, I love the beach debate. It's kind of become like a family tradition. My whole family usually goes out with me as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Nice having that good kind of support system there as well. Um do you you so you you mentioned kind of kind of like identifying uh a little bit as an as an ultra runner and that I feel like now is kind of that uh moniker, so to speak, has expanded with these uh now kind of 250 or 240, 250, 300 mile races. Um, do you having done a hundred mile race, do you kind of see yourself stepping into the 100 plus territory or are you and not to say that you're like comfortable, like those aren't necessarily wouldn't be challenges and stuff like that, but for some people it's you know 100 miles or 50 K's or or or what have you, you know, 88 K's, whatever. That's kind of where they're they're good with like how do you kind of view that when you when you look at kind of these these ultra ultra distant distance races starting to kind of happen frequently every year now?

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah, for sure. The 200s are getting super popular. Um I I don't really have much interest in going beyond 100 miles. Um at least not yet. You know, I I went and paced um in the Arizona 300. Um, I was a pacer and crew for that, and that exposed me to um, you know, the multi-day format, and it's just it's it's an entirely different thing doing a 200, 250, 300 mile race that's gonna take you multiple nights. Um, it is literally just it's it's hard to say they're the same thing. You know, it's like they're the same in the sense of, you know, an ultra is technically, I guess, anything past a marathon, so they're the same in that sense. But um they're just logistically so different. You know, it takes so much more thought, so much more planning, so much more resources. There's so much more capital, like money investment, both from the the race fees and then the travel fees and the logistics. You if you're bringing out a crew, like it's multiple thousands of dollars. Um, so that's completely different than just like you know, a couple hundred dollars and go out with your shoes and you know, your vests and go run a race. It's it's so different. So I don't really have much interest. You know, a lot of people I feel like get caught up in this sense of like they gotta constantly go further and further and further. Um I really like the idea of like, okay, cool, I've built this aerobic base in the process of uh of going for that 100 miler, and and now let me dial it back to 100k and and see what I can do there, you know, and and so I that's what I did last year. I didn't run a hundred miler last year. I just ran the big Texas Ultra 100K and I got first place in that in the uh non-qualifying heat. So now this year my plan is to try to uh to qualify for the championship round and see if I could win the championship 100K. So the 100K distance uh as of right now, I feel like is is like my sweet spot um where I can I can really perform and and hold a solid pace. It's around that 65 to 70 mile mark, and it's kind of for everybody. But for me, uh where the wheels start to kind of fall off and it it just becomes a real grind and the pace just really slows down those last you know 25 to 30 miles of a hundred miler. Um, but I do have another 100 miler plan for 2027. Um so I do I have interest in 100 milers still. Yeah, um I am gonna go pace in Moab 240. So just being in the environment and being exposed to the 200s, I'm not like completely closed off to it, but it's more so like I don't have any plans to run 200s anytime soon, you know. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Um I had a question, I just lost it. It might come back to me. Um kind of I want to kind of transition a little bit back to kind of you kind of uh uh uh coaching, kind of all of these these things. And and so you mentioned kind of earlier at the top, kind of uh coming from a background of of uh gymnastics, stumbling, uh, movement, lots of kind of mobility work. Um was that kind of what led you like what how did you kind of step into coaching and and what did that process look like?

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Yeah, for sure. So I've I've been a coach for over 10 years, um, but I originally coached uh parkour, tumbling, and and gymnastics. Um so that's something that that I both enjoy and I'm pretty good at. Um you know, I used to teach, I could I always tell people I can teach pretty much anybody how to do a backflip if you desire to do a backflip, and I can also teach you really any kind of flip you can you can think of. I can I can do it and I can teach it to you. Um but yeah, that um influences the way that I train uh even for trails and for ultras. You know, I have a um what I say is I'm a movement coach that just coaches runners at the time. And at the same time, I'm a movement uh athlete that just happens to compete in ultras at this moment. You know, I used to compete in American Enjoyer, um, which was you know obstacles, and that's just it's a way for me to to um measure up and and test how does my general movement training approach uh prepare me to compete in different modalities? And is it working? Because my goal is to be as well-rounded of an athlete as I can be. And one of the missing components in my athleticism was endurance, and that's part of what drew me to um you know doing doing ultra races, and then I wanted to know well, can I be competitive at this, you know, and having not grown up being an endurance athlete, you know, a lot of people in the sport um ran cross-country um and grew up as runners, and then maybe they, you know, got out of it and um and then they kind of returned to it. I did not have an endurance background, and so that it's kind of a way for me to test that. Um and then I just saw that there's this massive surge of growth in the sport, and I realized that there's not enough people, I don't think, um, that are helping lead beginners to safely enter the sport. You know, a lot of people are getting into ultra trail races and they're kind of just jumping right in and they're getting injuries, they don't know how to train, they know how to make a mileage plan, they don't know how to do fueling, and they learn through trial and error like we all do. Um, but they don't have to, you know, and and you don't have to get injured, you know. A lot of people learn through injury, and there's a better way, you know. Um, so I just realized that I could help be of service in that way. And I also love to help people overcome their barriers and their limitations and their fears. You know, that's part of the reason why I love to teach people backflips because it's actually a very simple like movement, even though it looks kind of wild and crazy and cool. The technique of all the flips is very simple. Um, it's more so the fear that they have to overcome to execute the technique. And I love that process overcome that fear and execute. And so there's a commonality with ultra running. It's very simple. You're just running from here to there, you know, and you just keep running. Um, but there's that fear in the of the unknown and how to prepare, and you know, all those aspects of it. So that's kind of a little insight into the coaching side and and my background and how I approach training.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

How central kind of would you say, or I guess important would you say kind of being curious is to your kind of uh experience journey as a runner, but also uh as a coach. I'm curious, I'm curious about that.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah, man, I'm glad you bring that up because for me as an athlete and for my athletes that I train, I actually have a um what I call the code of the athlete. Um, and one of those, there's like five kind of core values of that code. One of those is stay curious. And that's ultimately what drove me to even um want to do the 100 mile trail race, right? So, like I mentioned, I read it in David Goggin's books. He talked about in his first book, you know, going to do he wanted to do Badwater, uh 135. He had no idea what these were. And then when he tried to sign up, the race director's like, Well, have you ever done 100 miles? And he's like, like in a week. And the, you know, the race director's like, no, like in 24 hours. And he's like, I didn't even know people could do that. So then he goes and does his first one, right? So I was like, huh. I feel like I might have like the mental side, like the grit, the fortitude, the perseverance to do something like that. I know I don't have the endurance, like the physical side, but that's something I could train towards and you know, use my knowledge of programming and um period I periodization and just my my knowledge of biology and and fitness in general to apply it to running. Um, but I feel like I have the grid, you know, I feel like I have the mental toughness. And so that was that curiosity of like, well, I'm curious. Like, do I actually have what it takes to complete a 100-mile race? Like, I think I do, and now I have to bridge that gap between who I think I am up here and who I actually am in reality, and so that's what kind of um I guess sparked the initial like inspiration behind like wanting to actually move forward with that. And then for my for my uh my uh students, you know, and and my athletes, I encourage them to do the same thing. Like stay curious as to what can you accomplish? You know, what's possible for you when you um pursue whatever it is that you want to pursue relentlessly? What is possible when you don't give up? What is possible when you execute a smart uh structured plan, you know? Um, and and that could be, like I mentioned, for flips or parkour or ninja warrior, or it could be for running. And and that's kind of what it is for me, is like I'm curious if I can complete that. Then it became, I'm curious, could I could I podium and win some of these? Could I be competitive at these things? I'm curious. Let me go and see, you know, then even like the marathon, I'm curious. Can I eventually break a sub-three hour marathon? Um, you know, and some curiosities are stronger than others, you know, where it's like, yeah, maybe, but do I care that much? I don't know. I'm I might be more interested in breaking a 10-hour 100k. You know, I'm more curious about that. Um, but yeah, does that kind of answer your question?

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Yeah, no, for sure. I think, I mean, for me, I think that's uh it's definitely a central pillar in my own kind of um journey and experience, you know, and and I think it's you know uh exactly everything you're talking about. It's it's you know, oh I'd love to I I'm curious about trying to kind of you know PR at this distance or you know, finish a marathon in under this time or you know, graduate up from uh you know 25k to a 30k and and kind of start hitting those those ultra distances. Like I think it's it's you know it's a driving force for I think a lot of people if if if they don't realize it, you know. Um I'm curious what I keep saying curious, but I'm curious um what uh um specifically kind of when you think about training uh or kind of coaching the the athletes and the people that you're working with for for trail running and and and ultra distances, what kind of inspires you about getting to do that? You know, like getting to kind of be a part of of that experience if you look back at um you know races that have happened this year or since you kind of began began that journey as a coach, like what kind of inspires you about getting to do that and getting to see people kind of um set themselves, set themselves out and kind of conquer those distances.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Yeah, for sure. Man, I just love I love seeing people overcome uh difficulty. You know, I love to see when someone goes through adversity and they're really going through it and they find a way through it. And it especially if I can help be a part of that and I can help support them through that. And you know, if I've coached them up to that moment, um I can remind them of the training that we did. I can remind them of certain moments that we did it, and this is why we did it, you know. Um, and then sometimes, you know, things come up in ultras that we we never planned for, and we just gotta adapt on the fly and we just gotta just roll with it. And that's a I love that aspect of Ultra in general. It forces you to be adaptable. Um, but I just love seeing people overcome, you know. I love seeing people uh conquer their their own inner challenges and and then crossing that finish line and having that moment um where they are now like they're now a new person because their capacity, both mentally and now physically, has exceeded anywhere that they thought was possible. And that capacity uh that is such a mental thing now uh bleeds into the rest of their life, whether it's their career or their relationships with their wives or their kids or their husbands um or just friends, even, you know. So I love that, and then um being able to show people um ways of moving and ways of training that are somewhat unconventional. Like I'm a certified rotational movement specialist um and a landmine university coach, and those are all um kind of unconventional ways of strength training and training in general. So I like to introduce people to these ways of training, and then they give me the feedback, they're like, wow, this made this hill running this hill so much easier when I coil my core and I land head over foot and I do what's called a double-down pulse with my arms. And so hearing that feedback that they're having a similar experience that I had when I implemented that training in my own running, that is a little bit like um it's it kind of goes against the grain into what has traditionally been taught in running, um, not just not in distance running, but even in sprinting and in general sports um training as well. You know, I grew up playing football and everything was you know, stiff spine, stiff neutral spine, don't let your knees go past your toes. Um and I literally train the exact opposite of that. Everything is knees over toes, everything is core, code rotation. So teaching people new and different ways to move while also applying that to the trail and seeing it actually be fruitful for them is really gratifying to me, you know, to see other people um conquer those those challenges for themselves while remaining healthy and uninjured, you know, because there's a lot of people that just jump into the sport, like I mentioned, and and they just put in a ton of volume and they might be successful in completing some races, even winning some races, but then they're just plagued with injury after injury after injury, and they're constantly recovering. And uh I've been fortunate, but also I've been intentional. It's not just like a luck thing. I haven't had any injuries since I've gotten into this, but it's largely because of the style and the way that I train. You know, I keep it very diverse. Although I am focused on trail, ultra trail running right now. I still do parkour, I still do gymnastics movements, I still do um strength training, powerlifting style movements, I still keep my movements very diverse, and I'm convinced that that's what helps keep me resilient and uninjured.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

This this question might be not so much kind of in the under the kind of what we're talking about with with athletes, but but I guess more so for you and uh on a personal level. How kind of important when you kind of consider all of that training differently and training um uh for kind of ultra-trail distance, how um important does uh diet kind of come into play with that? I'm curious for you. I I I uh I don't want to put any kind of monikers, and uh I know some people say vegan, some people say plant-based. Uh you have your Instagram handles eat plants move often. So just for you specifically, kind of how how does um diet, and I know obviously, and I want I'm curious about juice as well, like how does that kind of play into your um overall kind of approach to um the ultra-trail distance?

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Yeah, I mean it's it's huge, you know, but it regardless of what you're competing at, your day-to-day diet um is going to impact how you sleep, how you recover, your inflammation levels, uh, your overall uh muscle mass, um, you know, your your body composition in general. So it's a major component of any athlete's uh journey, you know, and and so yeah, I I've been plant-based for uh 12 years now. Um I'm mostly vegan, although I'm not like strictly vegan. Um there was about five years where I was like super strict vegan. Um my whole family, my wife, my two kids, they're they're uh pescatarian, so they eat fish and dairy. Um I'll occasionally eat fish, like if we're traveling or special occasion, but most of the time I'm eating um plant-based. And pretty much every day I'm drinking raw juice and smoothies and then cooking a plant-based like vegan dinner. Um, and that keeps me feeling energized. I feel like I recover uh faster since I've been doing that. Um, I'd say the juicing is probably the biggest, not the big, yeah, I would say probably the biggest um like I guess hack comes to mind because it's such a nutrient dense um, you know, like drink that also hits your bloodstream extremely quickly. And there's a lot of anti-inflammatory um, you know, compounds in in a lot of the things we're juicing, um, as well as uh high micronutrients, which I feel like in all sports, not just ultras, uh, but in all sports, it kind of gets neglected. The micronutrient aspect of diet is very there's a very big focus on macros, you know, proteins, fats, carbs, which are obviously important. Um, but having those micronutrients, you know, they help our muscles repair, they help deliver oxygen. They they help with inflammation, all those different things. So I usually drink juices during my ultras as well as day-to-day life. And almost all of my athletes, I have them juicing as well. They they got their own juicers. I've given them a guide that teaches them how to juice at home with recipes, gross a grocery list, and pretty much all of them juice almost daily. And all of them have nothing but good things to say. They feel lighter, they recover faster. It helps your microbiome because you know, digestion, right? Digestion is a major component of fueling, you know, and I've been fortunate in all my ultras to never have any digestion issues. Um part of that is genetic, you know, and just our bodies, but part of that is uh this question of do you have a healthy microbiome, which is the community of bacteria in your gut? And if you do have a healthy uh gut bacterial community, then your digestion is going to be better and you can digest uh um a wider variety of things, which then leads you to lower risk of GI issues during a race, you know. So I could talk a long time about nutrition. Um but yeah, it's it's a big it's a big component, you know. Um obviously if you're carrying around, a lot of people get into running to help lose weight, which is awesome because it helps you burn those calories. Um but then if you pair that with eating cleaner and eating better, um, you're gonna drop even more body fat, um, which is just less weight to carry on the trail, you know. And obviously the lighter you are, um the less impact on your joints and the faster you can move, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

I can uh and I I've I I also I feel and I feel like I've I've talked about this in several episodes too, and I feel like I just need to kind of devote a time to talk about nutrition. I'm not a nutritionist, I'm not an you know, but but I'm very interested in A, how people feel for races, how people kind of um feel during races. Uh, you know, sometimes it's uh you know, just you're kind of getting into the ultra distance and and and up, it's you know, you're moving away from maybe gels and stuff, going towards real food. Um, you know, and I've heard several, I've heard stories of like, you know, of uh people packing like pre-made pasta and like just salt in bags and stuff like that, and and you know, other people function just on jail or uh just on gels. Um so I think it's I think it's I think it's deeply interesting. And and as you were kind of talking, I I I jotted down just this kind of and I'm curious specifically about juicing. What do you think is kind of the unsung hero, so to speak, when it when it comes to uh the contents of what you're gonna be putting in, what you'd put into a juice to fuel during a run or after a run? Like what's the one fruit, vegetable, what is the one thing uh that kind of comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Yeah, I don't know if there's any like a single ingredient, but I do have a juice um that I call ninja's blood, um, that I that I usually make for my ultras. And it's a combination of things. And what I want is I want ingredients that help with boosting my oxygen in my blood, um, high in electrolytes, and also some good natural sugar, you know, especially during the run. Um, so ninja's blood juice is beets, like a heavy amount of beets, watermelon, because watermelon's pretty high in natural electrolytes. It's also really high in an amino acid called citrulline, which helps reduce muscle soreness. And then um I throw in some oranges in there for that natural sugar. And then I like to put some celery because celery also has naturally occurring sodium. And then I throw in a little bit of ginger, and the ginger is to help with ginger helps with digestion, um, but it's also has some anti-inflammatory. So all those together um I I make in a single juice, and then I add some extra Himalayan pink salt just for extra sodium. And that's one of my go-to juices. Like I drank probably six or seven bottles of that during my Hunter Miller, um, you know, periodically throughout it. And uh, like I said, it's just to support my blood oxygen levels, my electrolytes, recovery, the digestion of what that ginger if I'm having any issues, which luckily I haven't. And maybe, maybe because I drink that throughout, I is why I don't have the GI issues, you know. But I also drink juices on the daily. Each juice kind of has a different intent, you know. Um, like I'm I'm a little bit sore from some leg workouts I did, so I'm like going heavy on the watermelon juice right now. This is watermelon, lemon, and ginger. Um, it's we call it the watermelon lemonade. But that's that's one of my go-to's uh to help out, yeah, with fueling.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Um is that a uh is that a juice that's on the menu at your your spot? Or is that kind of a personal personal go-to?

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Yeah, it's like a personal. I mean, I I have sold it at events. It's kind of like uh if you know, you know, like secret menu item. Nice. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Well, we know it now, and I and I love beats, so that's perfect. Um I I as we're kind of kind of closing out a little bit, I I wanna I was doing some research uh for this episode, kind of Instagram deep dives, like I like to do for a lot of these these interviews. Um and uh an aspect of of uh running that I'm personally interested in, and specifically I would say kind of um uh under the trail umbrella is uh running kind of as a spiritual practice. Um I think for a lot of people that can look very different. Uh and it doesn't necessarily have to have a a religious connotation. It maybe it does for some, maybe it does for it doesn't. For others, that's totally fine. Some people can be a breathing exercise that just has this spiritual kind of nature to it. Um there was an Instagram post that you were talking about um that that you you had kind of a spiritual calling, so to speak, when you when you kind of came into running. How I guess for you on a kind of personal level, does trail running as a spiritual practice? How is that kind of how do you approach that and how does that kind of influence you as an athlete and and when you're going out and kind of doing these distances?

SPEAKER_00 50:44

Yeah, bro, I'm glad you brought that up because that's definitely a major component of it for me. Um, it's a big reason why I continue, you know, to to to run instead of just doing it and then move on to something else. Um for me, running, specifically trail running in nature, it's it's a movement meditation, right? And when I get into that flow state and I really ground myself to the moment, is when I I hear God um most clear and I have my deepest conversations with God. And um I've had some of my deepest revelations, you know, with God. And uh at the same time, um, you know, I'm Native American as well. Uh, so it really it really aligns with with my um ancestry, where I had ancestors that ran um, you know, many miles, whether for spiritual practices and rituals, or just for day-to-day life, you know, practical going to retrieve something or or something like that. Um, and I'm actually my family is actually from this region of Texas, South Texas and North Mexico. So specifically like this land, like my people ran on. Um, and so I I feel a deep connection to the land itself, which draws me more to the nature. And that's why you might have noticed or or seen that I braid my hair for every run. And and I braid my hair as as a way to pay honor and respect um uh to my Native American ancestry. And also, um, you know, that's that's what uh some of the Native American warriors would do when they would go to battle. Um, and that's what I kind of feel like I'm doing when I go uh go do a race. You know, it's like I'm going to battle with my own inner demons, and and there's this kind of like um good and evil forces that we're just like playing with when we're going to these deep uh levels of suffering. Because once you get there, once you get to that point that you're the furthest you've ever gone or the fastest you've ever gone, whatever it may be, and you're just in that deep suffering of pain, you know, people call it the pain cave. Um when you're there, the voice to tell you to quit, the voice to tell you to let up is so loud and so strong, and that battle becomes so real just to take another step or go the next mile or get to the next aid station. And that's where I feel like that battle is, right? Um, but ultimately I also run as a form of gratitude. Um, because like I mentioned, when I first started running, I had a small spiritual experience because I was recovering from my ACL surgery uh when I tore my ACL in the Ninja Warrior competition. And um, you know, I may I mentioned this with uh Javien, and that one of my mantras was um that this was just temporary because the recovery was so long and so painful. Um it was hard to see the end, you know, of it was hard to see myself walking again, much less running again and being an athlete again. Um so I would tell myself this is just temporary. But then God kind of spoke to me in that moment and and told me, like, yeah, this is just temporary for you, but for some people, this is not temporary. For some people, they cannot ever walk again. They cannot ever run again. Um, or they can, but they're in pain the way you're in pain all the time. Like this, they're just chronic pain, you know. And and yeah, for you, you won't be in pain eventually, and you will be able to run and walk again. And you took for granted the ability to run. And I had a flashback to running on the playground, like racing those kids, you know, and feeling the wind in my face. And I was like, man, dude, I I took for granted running, you know. I was so caught up in doing these complex obstacles and all these cool flips and tricks and chasing the complexity of movement that I took for granted the basic movement of running. And so for me, when I go run, it's also a way uh to be grateful in a form of worship for the gift of being able to run. And and so I go and run because I can, because God gave me the gift to run, and I want to fulfill that gift. And part of that fulfillment means also running to the best of my ability, and that means trying to win, you know, because um just like we talked about that curiosity, I was like kind of curious, like I think I could win these things, and and God kind of answered me in that thought and was like, Yeah, you you could win these things if you push your full potential, if you train hard and you push yourself in the race and you don't um, you know, take the easy path, um, you could win these things. You have that potential in you. I've gifted you with that potential. Now, what are you gonna do with it? That's sort of what God has spoken to me on my runs. And I'm like, man, well, who am I to leave that potential on the table? You know, so those are all kind of some of the spiritual aspects for me. Um, I've even had some very deep moments where I've almost felt a Native American ancestor spirit of mine that I have a visualization of. He he's like a he's a an uncle of mine, or actually not an uncle, he's an older brother, is is sort of the vibe I get from him. And um he's he's uh he was a chief and and he's an excellent runner. And I'll just if I got a quick story, please go ahead. No, go go keep going, please. This will be you'll find this one interesting. So in the big Texas Ultra 100K, when I was a little past must have been, must have been about 40, 40 miles, 42 miles in, heading into the last 20 miles. I'm in first place, and uh, I usually save strategically, I put little nuggets in my races. So I'll save things like caffeine or like a favorite snack or or music for certain points in the race. And so I had saved um I think all three, and I I kind of like saved everything and also cannabis. So I also like to smoke joints um during my races. Some cannabis is a very useful tool that I've used during multiple my races. And so in this in this 100K, this last one in November, um, I got to that that 40 mile mark, left out the front of the aid station. I was like, all right, now's the time, you know. So um downed a bunch of carbs, took some caffeine, um, sparked my joint, and and took about three, four puffs out of my joint, put it back in my tube, into my vest, popped in my music, and then just like all that together, right? The carbs, the caffeine, the cannabis, the music. Um, just like I had an out-of-body experience that I don't think I've ever had before. And and basically I felt as if I left my body and I was kind of floating above, watching myself run. And and what happened was it was an interesting moment when I left my body. There was a moment where I could decide to. And that Native American ancestor, that brother, that that chief, he almost asked me like for permission. He was like, hey, let me take control for a second here. Like, let me show you how to run these trails the way we used to run these trails. And I was like, let's do it. And he was like, Okay, all you need to do is relax. And I'm running like at that point, you know, I'm 40 miles in, maybe like a 10-minute pace, a pretty technical section. Um and and just kind of cruising along. Um, and I'm slowly speeding up. And he's like, just relax, you know, like just chill. And I was like, okay, so I kind of relaxed, and that's when I kind of felt like I floated out of my body, and I'm kind of watching myself go and speeding up. And I hit like maybe for four miles or so, I hit like an 8.15 to 8.30 over like some pretty rocky technical terrain, but it was like I knew exactly where to step, but I'm watching it from from slightly above, almost like I was like an eagle flying above myself, watching down. And that was a very interesting experience. Um, and it was just those three or four miles, and then and then I kind of came back in, and and that was that was pretty wild. And I I've never had that experience, and I think I've only shared that with like one other person. Um, but yeah, that's that's one way that that has manifested for me. Um, kind of all those things coming together. Beautiful response, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

Thank you for that, uh, for the the detail on that. Um really appreciate that. Um kind of as we're nearing the end a little bit, you mentioned earlier um uh the the kind of uh I think you said you were pacing at a um uh at a race later this year, and then you had kind of a goal for another hundred mile or on your calendar. What when you look at 2026, what what does the rest of the the year look like for you when it comes to um racing and supporting? How's that gonna look for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

Yeah, for sure. So I've got um one of the um qualifying 50ks. I haven't decided which one I'm gonna run yet with Texas Outlaw. So I'll run one of the 50Ks that is a qualifier. I think there's only two left in the year um for the big Texas Ultra. So I'll do one of those 50Ks. Uh Rocky Horror. I'll go back to that and try to win it for the third year. Um, I really want to try to break the course record. Uh that's my my goal. Was my goal last year too, but then it rained. Um it's like just over five hours, I think, which is like a nine nine oh five minute average pace, I think, if I remember correct. Um so I want to try to do that, and then the big Texas Ultra 100k, go back and compete there. And and that that's all I really got planned for for this year. Oh, I guess also I'll be pacing um Eli um Webby. Um, you know, he's a he's a pretty big name in um the Instagram world of um Ultra Running. He's a first forum sponsored athlete, but I met him in Arizona Monster 300, and uh we've just been connected online ever since. And he asked me if I could come out to Moab and help pace him and crew him. So I'll be doing that, get some good experience out there, and that that's all I've got lined up for the rest of the year.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

Awesome, man. Well, I thought this was a really awesome conversation. Thank you for spending some time with me and and opening things up into your world a little bit. I really appreciate it, Amos. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:19

Yeah, dude, I appreciate you having me and and and letting me tell some stories on here.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

Absolutely.