ThinkBiz Podcast
ThinkBiz Podcast is your go-to show for real conversations about building and growing your business. Hosted by Garrett Hammonds of Hammonds Media and Nolan Rogers, we dive into the challenges, wins, and strategies that matter most to small and startup companies. Tune in for expert advice, inspiring stories, and actionable tips to take your business to the next level.
ThinkBiz Podcast
Master Client Connection & Find Your Business's Bigger Purpose - Lessons from a Photographer Karen Bunch
Welcome to Think Biz Podcast Episode 4 - In this insightful episode, hosts Garrett Hammonds, a digital marketer, and Nolan, who helps people connect with timeless truths , sit down with the incredible photographer, Karen Bunch Karen shares her journey and unique approach to portrait photography, which began with a desire to capture her niece's true personality after a disappointing senior portrait experience. She emphasizes the importance of understanding her clients' personalities during consultations to choose locations and styles that make them shine.
Learn about the challenges Karen faced, including having to direct clients despite being non-confrontational, and the joys of capturing natural movement and genuine expressions. Karen reveals her love for editing, viewing it as where the art truly emerges, transforming images to direct the viewer's eye and highlight the subject's face. She creates "art from the faces that you love", even using her painting background to inform her Photoshop techniques.
The conversation also explores important business insights, such as the value of learning where to niche and the critical role of a CRM in staying connected with clients.
Gain perspective on how AI is impacting photography; Karen explains how she uses it for enhancement to uphold dignity and authenticity, ensuring portraits look like the real person rather than appearing "unreal".
Most profoundly, Karen discusses the bigger purpose behind Bunches of Joy Photography. Tune in to hear how Karen combines technical skill, artistic vision, and a deep-seated purpose to create impactful portraits that help people feel beautiful and seen.
Find Karen Bunch:
- Website: Bunchesofjoyphotography.com
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bunchesofjoyphotography/
- Phone: 405-400-0353
// Thank you for listening to the show!
Check us out at:
- https://www.thinkbiz.solutions
- https://youtube.com/@thinkbiz.solutions
- https://www.linkedin.com/company/thinkbizsolutions
- https://www.facebook.com/thinkBiz.s
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Podcast is produced by Hammonds Media. For assistance with you digital marketing needs, visit https://www.hammondsmedia.com
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SPEAKER_01:this you? This is kind of the whole point of the nice, easy podcast, is so we can just press record whenever we want. What? And that is kind of the whole point. Oh, we're recording? We are recording right now. That's what's going on. That's what's happening right now. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Think Biz podcast. We're on episode four. Oh, my goodness. Four episodes. We've passed the percentage point of most podcast failure. As long as we got one or two episodes out, we're going to be fine. That's right. And man, it is an absolute pleasure today. We have Karen Bunch with us, who is an incredible photographer. And we're going to talk about some of the different photography styles that she's done. But welcome. We're happy to have you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. This is going to be a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_01:It is a lot of fun. And it's a fun week, too. Our space weather is great. So if there's any networking, anybody listening needs to do Wednesday through Thursday. It's a great time for sending those emails and calling everybody that you're putting off calling this week. So Wednesday, Thursday, give them a call. It'll be worth it. Absolutely. And as always, I'm Garrett Hammons. I am a digital marketer and I own a digital marketing agency called Hammons Media. And my incredible co-host and Nolan, tell us a little bit about yourself. Thank you. Thank you. Mostly I pray for people using really old words out of really old books that most people have forgotten about. And I teach people Sunday school lessons that they needed to hear when they were six, when they're whatever age they are now. But that's me. And now we are so happy to have Miss Karen. Lovely presentation today. We got to see Shadow's Butt, your lovely, lovely dog that started it all very early on. But we usually tend to ask people, where did your business kind of start? What problem did it actually solve for you apart from people wanting to see more pictures of your dog's butt?
SPEAKER_00:People want to see more pictures of my dog's butt. It started with the knees. saying that she didn't like her senior portraits that had been done in Colorado Springs. But when I looked at them, there was two problems. One is they had a teenage girl in a white shirt. And white's a hard color to photograph. It's especially hard. White, red, black. It's hard for teenagers to wear. They're very stark colors. They will pronounce any pimples, anything that they have. It's just not a good color that I recommend. A lot of people love them. I work with it if they do want to wear that. But between the white shirt and they really missed her personality. They put her in an urban setting. This child now in college has gone to Iceland and studied icebergs and polar bears. Oh, wow. So totally missed her personality, putting her in a hat and having her kick her little foot up and act like a city girl.
SPEAKER_02:Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00:I took her out to a park, put her amongst the leaves, had her lay down, just playing the leaves for a little bit, took some portraits, and we got pictures that she liked. But it was just knowing her personality and taking time. And I often, before I meet with somebody for portraits, I do a consultation call with them or I'll meet with them for coffee and just try to get to know, you know, who are you? And if you're a rough person, let's go to... Martin Nature Park. If you're a flower person, then Will Rogers or Myriad Gardens or your home body, I'll come to your house. But what is the personality of the people I'm taking portraits of? and let that shine.
SPEAKER_01:Perfect. And it really came through in the portrait of your niece that you showed. The tones were so warm. It matched her smile. Everything was just perfectly composed. The eye didn't rest on anything extraneous. It was awesome. I really enjoyed it. That's the one bad thing about being a podcast right now is that it's all audio. And oh my goodness, we're going to have to have some links to Karen's photography because the visual piece, that's her thing. So we'll definitely link that in the show notes so Thank you. how a business you know really what it looks like at the early stages in photography it's such a different business and you know you're not thinking of of uh you know somebody on on you know wall street or something like that it's it's it's all people-based
SPEAKER_00:it's all people-based yes
SPEAKER_01:so
SPEAKER_00:and i really thought that people would just call me and oh hey we want pictures by you but so learning to reach out to others has been a challenge as a photographer and then the other challenge i've is I'm very non-confrontational and that's not always a good thing because sometimes I have to tell people I need you to move I need you to do this I need you and I have to take control of the situation so that's been a learning curve for me for photography because that's not something you think about When I've got to pose somebody and I need you to stay still in this way, or if I'm letting them move and trying to catch the personality, that they don't stop, that they keep moving for me. Yeah. In my studio, I had ladies who would play Glenn Miller songs and let them dance, and I would take pictures of them dancing. It was so fun.
SPEAKER_01:That's a great idea, having kind of the natural movement from music coming in. That's really cool. Breaks the tension. I know I still have problems really directing my clients when they're not really sure what to do or they're just in wrong position internally. And so the process doesn't go away just yet. But has there ever actually been any problem where you've had to tell a client what to do and they just wouldn't budge, wouldn't listen, and they were really difficult to work with?
SPEAKER_00:That does happen. I'm trying to think of a circumstance. I usually realize that I'm going against their personality if I'm saying something like that. So instead of having them change, I have to change what I'm looking for. And so I have to look at what are they doing, what are they showing me, and then adjust and try to catch pictures. A lot of times that's little bitty kids though, too. Taking pictures of little bitty kids and you just keep shooting the camera until you capture that picture that's like, that is the one. And digital, I don't care how many pictures I shoot, I'm only going to edit the best. And those are the only ones that are coming off my computer.
SPEAKER_01:That's really fun. So it then is kind of the question of that personality that you're trying to pick up on that they're not really able to communicate with anything other than their body and how they're responding to the camera. Is that something that you've learned how to better pick up in those consultations or is this just sometimes right in the moment they're acting a certain way and that's actually the truth of them?
SPEAKER_00:No, I'm looking for their smile in the consultation. If I'm personal with them or doing it in person then I'm looking for what is their natural moves.
SPEAKER_01:So you're already taking pictures of them before you even
SPEAKER_00:break the camera. In my head, yes. I'm already looking at them and I'm looking for what do I need to pose? What is maybe a movement that they're making that it's not flattering to their personality or to their, their body shape? And how do I work with that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I remember, um, when my, my wife and I were taking engagement pictures, my cousin's photographer, when I lived in Texas, she, that was her wedding present to us was photography. And, um, Bless her heart. She, you know, she had me to deal with. And so I don't envy you that that portion of your job, you have to deal with the all the the fidgety people like myself. And but it's it was a lot of fun whenever we did it. And so what's kind of the parts of the job that you love the most?
SPEAKER_00:I do love taking pictures of people. I just love capturing the personality. But I also love editing, which is a little weird. A lot of photographers want to do only the photograph. They don't want to edit. But I see that editing is where the art comes out, where I can change a background or I can enhance something. I don't want to change everything completely usually, but maybe darken the background so that the people pop out of it, do things that create art. Because one of my lines is, I create art from the faces that you love.
SPEAKER_01:And I definitely see that, especially between your nature photography versus your portraiture. A lot of people's portraiture is just static work. This is the picture, we're moving on. But what I notice about a lot of your portraits that you do, especially with the women that you were really bringing out their personality of, is you almost edit things to where it looks like they're in their natural habitat and environment. You were saying in your presentation how it's almost easier to capture pictures of animals or landscapes or anything else and Makes perfect sense to me because that's where it's supposed to be. But in your portraiture, it really looks like these people are now in their natural habitat that they may not actually get to experience on a day-to-day basis. So I really love that about your portraiture. But is that kind of what you notice in your art process? Or is there something else you're thinking of as you're going through the editing?
SPEAKER_00:I studied painting both in acrylics since 1986. So that teaches me how to direct the eye. And that's a big part of it is directing the eye. And as you said, the movement, trying to capture movement, but giving the eye the rest is on the face of the person. But also the painting in Photoshop helps me with a lot of Photoshop techniques to bring the attention to the person from the background to the people. So a lot of times we'll talk to people about letting their face be the brightest thing on the camera. Or opposite, maybe I'll use a white background for someone with really dark skin, but letting their face be a standout point of the portrait because that's what you're wanting to get a portrait of.
SPEAKER_01:Is there anything you notice in conversation or in that rapport that you build with clients that actually allows them to let their face be a little brighter and lighter and at ease?
SPEAKER_00:Getting them to laugh somehow. Sometimes it's just talking to them and getting them to tell stories. A lot of times with grandparents, I'll ask them to tell me about their grandchildren. Or I would ask you to tell me about your daughter. And that's when you drop the facade of I'm the big bad business person and I'm doing this, this. And you see Nolan come out. Or I would see Garrett come out as I ask him about Grace or about Rock Climbers, stuff like that. I try to learn something that gets them to talking. And I'll let them talk for a minute. And then I may say, okay, let's do your portrait now.
SPEAKER_01:Nolan, I find that if you just yell, fix your face. It just works every time.
SPEAKER_00:Mine is chin down, chin down, come on, chin down. Oh,
SPEAKER_01:yeah. No, it was so annoying learning modeling for some stuff doing in high school and college of just the, yep, that turtleneck, that's what's needed. That turtle, yeah. You shut that head forward. It may feel odd, but just do it.
SPEAKER_00:It makes a whole difference. And I try to never shoot up on someone that's, past their teenage years to not try to capture that throat because that's not the part of the face you want to see. And invariably, I have a lot of young men who, and my own grandsons, stick their nose up in the air because that's showing I'm proud to be me and that's wonderful, but I need your nose down.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I'm sorry, I can't let us just go right past it. Anybody else? Karen, did you notice that Nolan just... subtly dropped he was a model in
SPEAKER_00:high school. Oh, yes, yes. And I had to take a portrait of him, so, you know, it's coming.
SPEAKER_01:It is coming at some point. I need new artsy pictures. I just need better costumes. I need better stuff to wear.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I have costumes for ladies, but I don't really think I have anything for a man unless I can talk Mike into loaning out his hat.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, I would never ask another man to loan out a hat. And we've done portraits that way. I've had people wear their mother's hat, their mother's glove, bring in their mother's picture. And this was a lady in her 70s, and she was trying to give tribute to her mom with the portraits. So I've done a lot of that. And, of course, the painting in Photoshop, a lot of times those are bereavement paintings. I'm trying to get a picture of somebody bereaved. But maybe they were hooked up to oxygen, or maybe they just didn't look like themselves. And this was the last portrait the person had taken on their phone. Or a lot of times it's a pet, a beloved pet that's passed on, and now they really want something to memorialize them with. And I paint in Photoshop and try to bring art for that, too, so that I can do paintings. Or pictures, portraits, either way.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and that's something that a lot of people forget about art. I have to go over with my clients a whole lot as to how the key route to most of their problems is their environment isn't beautiful enough.
SPEAKER_02:And
SPEAKER_01:they don't actually look at things that bring them joy and peace and ease. Like it just rolls their shoulder backs and they take a nice big belly breath. And these types of portraits that you do are really important for that.
SPEAKER_00:I believe in printing and having wall art because what you have on your wall speaks to your values. And what do you value more than your daughter? Exactly. And it also helps the kids with their self-esteem because they look and they know in that portrait they had fun. They were experiencing love from the parents or from their family. It's just a win-win to have portraits printed and on the wall.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. I think that's a big point for anybody's personal life or their professional life is that the environment that you create for yourself, it makes... a big difference. I mean, from a business perspective, even like retaining employees, if you're having somebody that walks into an office every day and it's It's a big deal. It's a big deal. So much so. And that kind of then is the question a lot of times people, whenever they're coming in for a portraiture session and they already know you're going to do a digital background or anything else, what do you do to get them in the headspace apart from the dancing and you know how to kind of make them smile or laugh? Is there anything that they need to know you're doing behind the camera to really make sure that you're getting the best shot? A
SPEAKER_00:lot of times I'll let them see what I've taken so that then the next shot that If they know they want to do something different, that's fine. or if they want to continue just like it is. But a lot of photographers don't believe in letting people see the back of the camera, and I'm like, no, I'll show you. I also make the promise that if that picture is going to embarrass them, it will not come off my computer, that I just believe in events or anything. I try to take pictures where people are not eating.
SPEAKER_02:I've got
SPEAKER_00:to be conscious of what's going on, even though I may be photographing one person, to make sure that the people around them are not going to be embarrassed by what's going on. And I think that's important to uphold their dignity.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And it's really important to hear on the back side as well. Because picture taking, even though I've had it done a lot of times, I still am not comfy with it. Especially depending upon the attitude of the photographer or the artist. It's just really important for people to know that Karen has so much investment in making sure that they feel their best.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I'm going to show people how beautiful they are. That is just... Everything in photography with people for me is everyone is beautiful. You just have to get to know and see that beauty. And if I can make them feel beautiful, I have won the day.
SPEAKER_01:And you do win on a very regular basis. Excellent. Follow Karen at Bunches of Joy Photography. Oh, man. I'm telling you. The audio can't do the pictures justice. Go check it out. I will say I have the opposite goal when I take pictures of people. I want them to feel as embarrassed as possible. No, but it's always interesting, too, for us to just learn about, you know, so many of our listeners are going to be business owners and they're looking for... experts like you and how you started off to where you are now. What's kind of the business wins or even challenges that you've come across along the way to be able to be the successful photographer that you are?
SPEAKER_00:Learning where to niche because As a photographer, you always want to take pride in I can take pictures everywhere. Well, that's not true. I do have spaces where I say no, that this is not where I belong in taking a portrait. But letting people know that although my niche may be ladies and having them dance in front of the camera, that that's storytelling and I can bring to a business storytelling also because that's what's important to a business, emotion sells. So I want to bring storytelling to their branding and I want to show that this is an office that cares. And so just learning how to put that out because we're taught as photographers, niche down, niche down, niche down. Only tell them about one thing. And I look at it, and I was like, well, I've missed a lot of photography opportunities because everybody only associated me as photographing women. It's like, oh, no. I have limitations, yes. I take very small weddings because weddings, as a young beginning photographer, sport for most. Some people keep it up all their lives, and they love it, and that's great. But I'm like, eh, small wedding, thank you. No infants because I don't want to wrap them. I'm not comfortable with the wrapping. I'm comfortable with the mother or the father holding the baby and taking a portrait. So I need to be honest about here's what I can do, here's what I can't. But just let people know that, yes, I can do your photography and I will talk to you and I will visit about what your needs are.
SPEAKER_01:You also mentioned... during the presentation that the CRM would have been a game changer early on. Is that mostly because of keeping track of what different people mentioned or talked about as far as what they needed photography-wise, or what did that change in your business process?
SPEAKER_00:I think I expected that if I did your pictures once, you would call me back, that I didn't need to keep touch because... I'm a very loyal person. So once I do business, I usually stay. It's very rare. I stayed with the same hairdresser for almost 20 years. So I was just expecting that. And you get forgotten. I mean, even if it's your best friend, they forget that, hey, this is what you do. Because that's not how I go out when I'm being friends. And so just keeping track of people.
SPEAKER_01:And it's tough. It's tough for any business. I've worked with companies before where they've gotten a lead in from Tesla and they lost it because the sales team didn't follow up correctly. If you're not keeping track and stay on top of mind, man, it'll get away from you faster than anything. Yes. That resonates with me at least. I had to swallow my own crow a lot of the time and realize that I'm not in the business of tarot or spirituality or astrology. I'm in the business of church and people need to be reminded that there's this thing they need on a regular basis. And so for you, it's really important for people to understand. It's like, you need more beauty in your life. And when you don't have the skills to capture it, like Karen does, she truly does. And you've got to make sure that even if we've got our tech and everything else, please, please, prioritize yourself enough to know that, Hey, I might need some new photos taken or, Hey, there's something that's happened recently that I need captured. Yeah. One thing that's really interesting to me. And, um, you know, we, we mentioned a couple of different, different times. You maybe have heard on previous episodes that there's a presentation that happens during a, you know, networking group that we have here at project 3810, um, Karen was the presenter today, and one of the questions top of mind for me with any kind of photography is AI. AI is just in every industry everywhere, and it's certainly in the photography field. But you had some really cool ways that AI wasn't taking away from what you were doing, but it was actually adding
SPEAKER_00:to. It adds to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:For those who think they're going to get an AI headshot by putting their cell phone in, it will leave 20% of who you are will be different. Every AI picture is absolutely different. That's creative AI. So those closest to you are going to know that is not your portrait. But AI can be used to, I think, remove that under the chin when you've got some... what dare we call it, fluff there. It can remove a lot of that. It can remove the excess wrinkles that the camera introduces because the camera flattens from 3D to 2D, makes those wrinkles more apparent, and AI takes those out I have to back it up because it will take a 60-year-old and make them look 35. I need
SPEAKER_02:to
SPEAKER_00:back it up to maybe 50. I want people to look beautiful and to be enhanced. I don't want them to look unreal. And especially on a business portrait, I don't want anyone asking, when was that taken? Because your business portrait needs to be very sincere. People need to be able to trust you. And if you're showing up with a business portrait that's years old and it doesn't look like you or they know it, you've automatically got a little mark there. So I'm like, let's do some business portraits. Robert's company used me to come in and do business portraits of all his painters so that he could email it out to the homeowners and they know who was coming into their house. Now that was a little different because I didn't do a whole lot of AI on those. I let the picture pretty much be, this is who it is so that there was no question. I just, just touched a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And if, if, uh, You haven't watched episode two? Was it episode two when we had Robert? We had Robert on. He had a great episode two. And so Karen did all the headshot photography for that branch of Serta Pro Painters. And she's done headshot photography for me as well. So she has just a tremendous amount of experience in this. I think one of the... things going on right now with AI is that we just have become over reliant on it. And it's, it's so important to remember we as human beings want to relate to the human parts of others. And, you know, that's very clear as, as a presence inside of what you do.
SPEAKER_00:I want people to be seen for the beauty that they are.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I think there's, I'll have a slight bit of disagreement there on everybody overuses AI because a lot of my favorite comic book artists or anything else is all these digital tools started coming out and people would start criticizing them. Oh, you're moving over to digital. And it was like, okay, here's my iPad. Draw me a horse. And the change in technology doesn't change artistry. and the techniques that are behind it. I went through the Oklahoma City Arts Festival just this weekend, and there was only three artists that I personally wanted to buy from, and there were only about six to ten that i'm going to be able to recommend to other clients as far as what they use and some of them use digital art some of them were still traditional media sure but it's one of those things of the the core of artistry is what karen really gets in all of her work and so i would trust any amount of new ai technology in her hands because she knows how to make beauty happen regardless of the thing that's in in her hands yeah and i think that's kind of other the the other problem that you're noticing with everybody overusing ai is they don't actually have a bigger overarching goal. They might just be using it to do a get-rich-quick scheme or just not have to think about a problem that really needs to be mulled over a little bit more. But it also just doesn't serve a bigger purpose for most people and their businesses. And so that's kind of the curiosity, Karen, is you've got your business, you love doing photography. Does Bunches of Joy Photography serve any bigger purpose for you?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yes. I want to let people know that God loves them. Just like you said, church, I have prayed over I don't know how many clients. I've also prayed over people who have called in. I didn't know why they were calling, but they certainly portraits was not in their budget. And that wasn't the reason for their call. But I've got to pray with those ladies. I have prayed with ladies who were trying to leave their husbands and they're like, I don't know why. But I'm connected with beautiful restoration, which does help broken people to be restored. So I have found that sometimes I have to question beyond the photography, what are your needs? Just like you're doing and saying, okay, I can recommend a ministry. I can recommend church or churches. I don't think that one church stands alone for everybody. And I can pray with you, and I will certainly show you the love of Jesus. And so Bunches of Joy Photography is also a ministry of sorts.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent. Well, that's wonderful to hear. And people really do. That's why we love this podcast is it helps get people to understand those purposes behind everybody's business. And so I'm really glad to hear that you're able to do that for your clients, even if they don't purchase from you. They're at least able to come to Karen for whatever their actual needs are in that moment.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not worried about whether they purchase. God's going to take care of my needs. But it's how is he going to use me to help them?
SPEAKER_01:That's perfect. Yeah. And it's just like. Just like Noah was saying there, purpose in what we do, you know, if you want to have a long-term sustainable business, you have to be purposeful.
SPEAKER_00:You have to have a why.
SPEAKER_01:You have to have a why. And, you know, that's key is if you ever find yourself just, you know, on the grind and just working and you, you're not enjoying what you're doing and you're, you know, it may, it may not be that you're doing the wrong thing, but that you're doing it in the wrong way.
SPEAKER_00:Or you just forgot why.
SPEAKER_01:Or you forgot the why.
SPEAKER_00:You forgot momentarily why.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. We always have to remind ourselves of why we're doing it. Even if we don't like doing something, it may be the right thing for the right purpose. You know, Or we may love every moment of it, you know. But it all comes together when we have that bigger picture in mind. Most definitely. And we love that Karen literally takes those bigger pictures for us for
SPEAKER_00:the most part. I like to print big.
SPEAKER_01:We don't want to keep you too much longer, Karen, on this nice little drizzly day that might have some good lighting for you. Is there anywhere else that people need to go to find you?
SPEAKER_00:Benchesofjoyphotography.com. I'm on LinkedIn as KarenReading-Bench. Benches of Joy has a Facebook page, also an Instagram, although I admit I'm much more proficient at Facebook and LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01:Perfect. And is there any number they need to call you if they need to schedule something immediately after hearing the
SPEAKER_00:podcast? 405-400-0353. Excellent.
SPEAKER_01:Well, ladies and gentlemen, this has been a wonderful episode four with Garrett, Karen, and myself. As always, we've got to have our sign off here. So we need to stay sharp.
SPEAKER_00:Think biz.
