SPEAKER_01 0:00

We are going to cover ICE. We are going to cover what happened with Renee Good. Pretty controversial topic. In Minnesota, there was an ICE officer named Jonathan Ross. Unfortunately, there was a citizen who um got involved in a traffic stop in the wrong way and got shot and got killed. So a pretty tragic um event. What really happened was there was a stop that was already there by the ICE, you know, officials, officers, and Brene had parked alongside. She was about to leave. Open your door. Basically, I want to talk to you. It's kind of like if a police officer asks you to stop and get out of your car, whether or not it's legal or not, you know, they they want you to stop and don't do anything, right? But she ends up driving away, and some people say that she tried to hit the officer um on the way, and that caused him to shoot her and kill her. Now, I looked at the video and it does not seem that way, but please you guys can take a look. So this really just brings about what is ice, why is it good, why is it bad. Peter, what are your thoughts on this?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Yeah, first of all, I I mean, you know, a lot of people have different opinions on ice, and you know, I wouldn't necessarily say it's it's good conceptually in the sense that, okay, we want to remove illegal immigrants, um, you know, because they're illegal. They're they're illegally here, they're they're against the law. Um yet ICE is there's a lot of uh negativity with ice in the sense of of how it's being done, right? And um it seems pretty inhumane in many ways. And so it's hard to just say that it's it's a good thing. Um, but to get to what happened with Renee, good, I I think we should just watch a clip of what exactly happened. I could just share my screen right now. Um and and it'll just be the the the clip of of her. So let's just take a look here. Um, this is the main clip, right? And so you can kind of see. So let's take a look together real quick, and then we can make our determination.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

We see Ross pull out his gun and fire the first shot.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

So she barely went through, right? She barely went in, and I think she was trying to turn away from them. It seems very clear, but then the guy already pulled out his gun and boom, right? So again, seem it didn't seem like she was necessarily trying to run him over. I think she was just trying to avoid like avoid him and and and go away and avoid them you know opening her car and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

Appears to hit the bottom corner of the driver's side windshield. Ross fires twice more, apparently into the open driver's side window as Renee Good pulls away.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

This yeah. I I'll just give you my opinion because I don't I don't know what everyone else's opinions are about this, but I think it's very clear the guy screwed up. And I think I think he screwed up big. I think he killed he killed her. I I think it was um now. Listen, people make mistakes. Uh I have heard that this particular ICE agent uh had an incident not too long ago where he actually did get hit by the car run over, or he was dragged, or it was something like that. Like something happened um that may have caused some traumatic behavior, right? Um, where he he fired prematurely. So I I my conclusion here very clearly is he screwed up. He messed up. For anybody to say otherwise, I mean, honestly, you're just being a MAGA enthusiast, someone who is just obsessed with MAGA and just not willing to hear and accept um any narrative, which is not a good position. I totally disagree with that. I think it's very clear that he made a mistake. Yeah, you know, it was because of some traumas, but he literally killed this woman. And I guess the question for me is we could talk more about ice and you know what that's about, but I guess the question is, why did they do this? What why why did they why were they so aggressive? What did she do? Do you I mean, do you know? Like, why would that why would they have to? I mean, she's obviously she's a white woman, right? She obviously they heard her speak perfect English. I mean, she's not, you know what I mean? Like she's not a um, she doesn't seem like a you know, an immigrant or a terrorist. Like, why why get so aggressive in trying to, you know, open the car? Why did she they even have to open the car? Who was she? Was she hiding people? You know what I mean? So do you know anything about that?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Uh to be honest, I don't know exactly why the stop was there. I mean, officers were already there for whatever reason, meaning there was probably some other investigation or some issue. Um, she actually, so I'll I'll kind of break it down in my opinion from how things can escalate in in in in just in between people and situations. And the fact that I do share your opinion. I do think that he overreacted, the wheel was clearly turned. However, running away from a police officer also isn't the smartest thing to do. Uh, now you can call them a police officer or an ICE officer, but anybody who's holding a gun who has authority by the state or the or the federal government, um I think has to be treated not you know, treated with respect, not necessarily because you think they're good or or right, but the fact that there is somebody with a gun, right? Um, so I think what started off for her, or or yeah, the thing that she did that I thought was a little bit aggressive was she parked, if you look at the clip, like perpendicular to the street. So the streets going this way, like one way, other way, and she parked like this. I mean, if you see somebody parking perpendicular across traffic and in the middle of where officers are, I'm sorry, but that is a first thing. You're like, okay, there's something happening, right? I see. And and I think that for somebody, so she should get she should have been reprimanded for that. You don't just do that, right? We have something going on. She can be scolded. Um, but I ultimately think that because you're an ICE officer, you're a police officer, you're in the military, somebody with authority, uh, position, and power and a weapon, I think that they are he just needed the de-escalation tactics that he did not have. And I see that a lot for police officers who've shot, you know, kids or bystanders, you know, without necessarily, I don't think they're evil, I don't think they're bad people, but I think that they got, you know, the adrenaline was flowing, they got too excited, and he did not know how to de-escalate. So I do think that it's on him, um, unfortunately. But there is a big thing about how you show up. I mean, uh, not to out myself, but I've been I've been stopped by a lot of police officers, right? I've had a lot of tickets, you know. I was a wilder person in my younger days, and what I learned is that a little bit of respect goes a long way, you know, hands on the steering wheel, palms open, all that stuff. So it's super sad, super unfortunate. But I also want to let people know that the reason why ICE exists is because we have a lot of issues, you know, we have a lot of issues with immigrants um coming over illegally, um you know, kind of sucking funds out of welfare programs. Like it's funny it's talking about Minnesota because of the recent Somali fraud, right? Um, which we can go into later, but I think there is a need for us to figure out how to control the immigration process. And sure, you can debate how ICE is doing, doing well, not doing well. And I've heard a lot of horror stories. And in fact, in one of our uh mobile home parks in Texas, we have a property manager who manages over 200 units uh besides our park. And um, she one day called me and said, Hey, do you want to buy this mobile home? Because I know you've been looking to place a few in your park. And I said, Well, what happened? And apparently a gentleman had told ICE, because he was being you know pursued by ICE that this home in this park was his house. And lo and behold, that was actually his sister's house. So she got raided, she was illegal, unfortunately, she got deported, and it's just a really, really bad situation. Uh, but I do think that it is necessary to control immigration because we have a hard time paying for you know our own welfare and our own programs, and and we'll cover a little bit on the next topic, but there's a lot of waste and fraud and abuse. So that's my take. It's super sad. Should have never happened, but I do think that police, ICE, whoever, they really need to learn um de-escalation techniques, and that's just not what's taught in in those agencies. And I have friends in the police department, and it just sucks that they're kind of thrown into all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

So yeah, and then when you deal with so many of these, you know, types of oppositions, right? Like doing you're trying to do your job, and then you know, and just let's just say an average police officer, you deal with so many people who um are you know abusive or fight you, you you land on someone who isn't as abusive, but then you just immediately react, right? It's like we're we're not to have uh stereotypes, right? We're not to have you know certain things, but our mind, we have associations, right? And so we just associate, okay. There's a person who's, I mean, she's probably left, right? Uh left-winging, and she's defiant. And it's like you immediately just react, like, you know, to stuff like that. He overreacted. And what I'm hearing from you, and I I think it's very clear that, you know, both you you can put responsibility on both sides, right? It's never just like one side, right? Um, on one hand, I think I didn't even think about this. I didn't even think about the fact that she was in the middle of the street and she was clearly being somewhat defiant. So that's that's mistake number one, right? Uh the ICE agent um, you know, told this person, this person, whatever, authority said, hey, come out. And uh she she obviously mistake number two was she obviously did not come out, right? Uh she didn't comply and she didn't, whatever. Um, and okay, and then you because you got to empathize, like when whenever there's an argument or something, you you've got to think about both sides. So she's probably wanting to defy this situation with ICE, with you know, what they are doing. She's not obviously with the, you know, with them and what she doesn't believe in what they're they're doing. And so that was an act of defiance based off like, hey, these people are trying to show authoritarian control. This is her narrative. Authoritarian control, I'm going to defy that. And so that was why she acted the way she did. And then the ICE officer, it's like, okay, this is my job, number one. Number two, it's, you know, I um I have dealt with this kind of you know behavior before. And I just like I'm kind of sick and tired of it. I'm gonna act in certain ways. Um, but that certain way, I mean, obviously that's not how you should treat people, right? Um, and so that's his mistake as well. And then the third is that he uh he drew his gun, right? And he had a previous situation, again, that the stereotypes and association, he had a previous situation that caused him to draw his gun and then fire out of probably trauma. But again, it's still a mistake. So there's kind of mistakes on on both sides here. And it's a sad situation just in general, I would say. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not happy about what happened. Um, but yeah, I think it totally makes sense. And um, you know, I I could see honestly, I kind of see both sides. Listen, coming from a family of immigrants, right, we can understand that, but coming here illegally, and I get it's bad in your country, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But I hope most people, again, like like we can be understanding enough where it's like you cannot illegally be in a country and get all of the benefits without having your due process to get in here. Because then what happens is you may be great, but other people who are not great come into the country and do things illegally and get benefits that they they really shouldn't be, right? Um, that's our taxpayer money. And so I feel like the methodology is not great. Um, it's not done perfectly, it's very aggressive. And um, and at the same time, it's like I underst I can understand like we also need to be aggressive because there's like, you know, we don't know if there's gonna be an administration change right in a few years, right? I think 2029 is when the administration changes again, and all these things change. And so let's try to do as much as we can in our short period of time. So that's that's my final thought there.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah, I mean, last to unpack. Uh, I mean, uh, you know, the officer could have, you know, like there have been a lot of people driving into places and crowds and buildings and stuff like that, not just in the US, but in other places too, right? Like field of people or at a concert or whatever. So it's like you have these associations that pop off in your head. Maybe he was stressed, maybe whatever, maybe he had trauma. I get it. I mean, um, I'll be the first one to say I'm I'm not perfect, but um again, this is where the de-escalation, you know, training and tactics should come in. Um, you know, when surgeons work on patients, sometimes they mess up too, and then people end up dying. I mean, nothing is perfect, but um, I do agree that there should be humanity, there should be um like dignity when you're dealing with these people. Um, but it doesn't, you know, the mistakes of a few people definitely doesn't, you know, wipe out the need for a bigger plan. It's just Trump is also very bold in the way he does things and speaks. So I think the administration kind of gets empowered by that. And it's again a good thing and a bad thing because you know, if you're as you know, some wars are won before you step on the battlefield. It's like if you have a posturing, if you you know, it's just like how we negotiate sometimes, right? Like I've seen you um say things to another agent, you know, to kind of really like make yourself firm and grounded. And um, of course, we never make up anything or we don't we don't do anything unethical, but there is this posturing that's needed to let people know that you're serious. So um, just a friendly thing, guys. If you're my friend or family, I would say if there's an officer or ice or anything, like don't run away. Stay in your car, put your hands up, palms open, right? These are basics of a traffic stop. Stop over nicely, you know, courteously to the side. If he treats you like a you know what, I mean, you almost just have to take it, record it if you can, and you know, let the law handle it because it's not a good idea for you to go up against anybody that's armed. Um that's just my friendly advice.