SPEAKER_00 0:00

Okay. All right, guys. Welcome back to the podcast. Here with Peter today, we have a really good book recommendation on relationships. And it is written by John and Julie Gottman, who, if you guys remember, is the world-renowned expert on relationships, very studied. They do statistics, mathematics on how relationships survive and thrive. They're actually based here in Washington. The book title is Fight Right by John and Julie Gottman. Essentially, the core message is that conflict is inevitable. I mean, that's I feel that and I've I've experienced that, especially in marriages. And when handled well, can deepen intimacy and connection. So the first segment we're going to start with is actually a statistic to share. The Gottmans can predict the future of a relationship with up to 90% accuracy based on conflict patterns. So, Peter, I'm going to ask you a question to kind of start this off. How can couples ensure their conflicts are constructive rather than destructive? And what does a positive interaction look like during an argument?

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yeah, you know, it's very interesting because Gottman, they're so predictive when it comes to divorce. I mean, they have a 90% accuracy, right? So uh that's pretty significant, and they're very scientific about it. And so uh they, I mean, you can uh they can actually predict whether someone's going to break up uh within the first three minutes of an interaction, like of a conflict, with 90% accuracy. So uh pretty amazing stuff. So I would definitely listen when we're when we're talking about some of these things. One of the uh first things that uh we could talk about is the sh the shocking statistic that um during a conflict, a healthy relationship maintains a ratio of five positive interactions to one negative interaction, right? And so what that means is that when if you really want to see if a couple is really healthy, is you want to have five positive interactions. So we know we cook together, we go out to dinner together, we go out on walks together, we laugh together, whatever, like positive interactions versus one negative one, um, which you know, of course, is like arguing or um you know whatever else that is a negative interaction. And so if you're not close with the person, if you don't really know the person as as well, um, the the ratio should actually be 20 to one. So 20 positives, like even like you know, I would have to compliment you 20 times, right? That's a positive interaction versus one uh bid for change, like, hey, can you change this? And so that would be like the healthy ratio to do. So one of the first methods on how to fight well is avoiding harsh startups. This is something that Rebecca and I actually do very often. We've actually been coached this by our pastor, who has a very, very healthy relationship. And the way to avoid a harsh startup would be number one, to not starting the conversation with criticism, sarcasm, or contempt, right? I think a lot of guys uh we certainly criticize, we certainly are sarcastic. And I think sarcasm in some sense, this is something that uh Rebecca actually calls me out on often, is it is all fun and games until it gets to serious things. So if I'm like, oh, you're so lazy, or like maybe like you're you're so dirty and messy, right? That could actually be really personal. And even though I'm looking at it as like, you know, I'm I'm trying I'm trying to be innocent about it, like it's almost like a passive aggressive, it could actually be very destructive. So you don't want to start it like that. Um, and how do you avoid that? So this is the we've talked about this in previous con uh podcasts, where the way to start an argument is start talking about how you feel, right? What do most people do? They start with the the criticism. You never clean the dishes, right? I mean, that's like, oh, you always do this, you never, blah blah, whatever. That is the common way people do things. The way you want to start things is I feel so I feel just really um dismissed, or I don't feel appreciated when uh when I say, you know, come eat dinner, you come in 10, 20 minutes later, and the food is really cold. And I worked really hard on this dinner, so you see the kind of difference, like you always are late, you know, you never come on time, right? So and there's a different uh uh energy to that. But then when you say, hey, it just it really makes when you come at a different words, like it really just makes me feel sad and makes me feel uh frustrated when you you don't come on time because I just don't feel appreciated. And so just focus on your feelings rather than what you uh oh sorry, focus on your feelings and what you want rather than what your partner did wrong. So that would be the first uh point. Uh what would be another point? I I know you've been reading the book. What would be another point that um is one of the main points on how to uh fight well?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Uh so the other important thing is handling emotional flooding. Uh so another statistic: emotional flooding can make healthy conflict impossible. Research shows taking a break for at least 20 minutes, but no more than 24 hours, is crucial for recovery. So, what does that really mean? Uh, in the book, they talk about this idea of the kitchen sink. So, if I can share a quick story on how the book starts, is they have the stereotypical couple that gets together and they're it's all happy and dandy, and they love the same things and they like to explore and do the same things on the weekends. And then these little cracks start to appear in their relationship. These little things become big things and then become like chasms, right? Like big gaps that you can't really fill. And it shows the couple starting to talk about not just the argument, but other things that they're bringing into that argument. We do it all the time. I just I just had this happen like three days ago with my wife. And I already knew it was bad because it was 11:30 p.m. Nothing is gonna, you know. So I mean, this happens all the time. You know, I and anyway, so the kitchen sink or emotional flooding is when uh what it causes you to feel is a state of overwhelm where physiological stress makes healthy communication impossible, right? So a very, very easy sign is when you start to feel your heart race, uh statistically it will be above 100 BPMs, according to the Gottmans, or you feel attacked and urged to escape or shut down. These go into different coping mechanisms, like there are the avoiders, right? There are, you know, so the avoiders just try to, I can't handle this, I don't want to do this right now. Maybe they even just walk out of the room because they're feeling overwhelmed. Uh, it could be a validator, right? Where they give up their position too easily to make the other person feel like they're winning or feel heard, and then they kind of suppress their own desire.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Um, anyway, so how do you deal with that? This is hard. You have to consciously decide, okay, we can't move forward with this conversation. We need a break. Like maybe you and I are having an argument, and we decide, okay, we need to shut down for at least 20 minutes and agree to come back to it to let the physical body calm down. You know, the adrenaline's rushing, hearts going. Uh, it could be also self-soothing as a management technique. Uh, maybe deep breathing. Uh we do the we do the Huberman uh double inhale long exhale thing, and sometimes we do it around each other and we look weird, but we're like calming ourselves down, you know. We're you know, um uh maybe just taking a walk, listening to music. But basically the point is you have to disengage and agree to disengage, uh, and then returning with intention, uh, resuming the discussion only when both partners feel ready. Um, I think one other thing that is helpful is you have to. This is kind of a Jordan Peterson thing that I just heard, but you know, thinking about your household and your relationship like a small business, like you and I have a business. We wouldn't just call each other at a random time and say, hey, let's have the most important meeting right now as you're eating dinner, right? So picking and choosing the way you engage with your partner, I think can help you circle back to make sure you're in a in a ready state. Uh but yeah, essentially emotional flooding is your body being overwhelmed. You sh you you your your vision will start to narrow and you start to feel like you just can't deal with this. And from that point on, I've experienced that anything happens from that point is just all gonna go downhill. I don't know what your experience has been on this.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah, this is something that I've actually it's very near and dear to my heart. I think uh and just being vulnerable here is I saw my parents uh get into very emotional states. And again, I can't really blame them because they've lived in a different time. They didn't have John Gottman all this, you know, these statistics to help them kind of navigate through emotions. And so I've personally just watched my parents just get into like very heightened emotional states, and of course, when you're in a heightened emotional state, that's when you're gonna make the biggest mistakes. So you're going to unfortunately, you're going to say things that you don't want to say, that you shouldn't say, that are very piercing, and that could be, I mean, it can create long-term damages to the relationship, right? You're going to do things that you don't want to do. Like some men beat their wives, honestly, because they're in an emotional state. And that's where it can get just really it can bring you into a very, very bad place. And that's why I've personally been so uh emotionally regulating when it comes to my arguments. And so Rebecca and I do this often where uh we get into these heightened states. Hey, let's calm down uh before we re-engage. And so uh I think it's really tempting, especially for people like you and me who we want to solve the problem, let's get this done. Come on, like let's resolve this so we can move on with life. But that kind of rushing is not going to play well with you in the long term. You can't rush things like this. Some people they they need time to process, right? And so, really, when you start arguing, when you're like elevating your voice, I think that's a really good indicator. When you're, you know, get you could feel that heart rate going up, you're just getting angry. You just gotta step back and be like, hey, hey, let's just take a break. Because I'm not gonna, you I'm not gonna, you're not gonna hear what I'm saying. I'm not gonna hear what you're saying. Yeah, it's very clear, like the statistics are clear. We're not gonna hear each other, we're gonna say things, we're gonna make mistakes. Let's take a step back. So, yeah, that's that's what I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

So, I have a question. Um, would you so based on you know what your pastor has told you, what you've read over the years, would you recommend maybe practicing this somehow? Like, is there room to actually this is came up in my head. Is there is there room to actually try and practice like a conflict and a resolution type thing, or do you just practice in the heat of the moment when it happens?

SPEAKER_01 12:43

I can tell you a real story. Tell me. So, so me, so uh Rebecca and I were uh we were having some, I forget what the conflict was about, but we were having oh, I the conflict was about, you know, for me I work every day, I like to play video games, I like to, you know, be on my phone. My mind is like, I need to be stimulated. I can't just watch a movie. It's just really hard for me to just watch something. So when we're when we're um watching something, I'm on my phone playing some kind of game, a very mindless game, but I'm still like with I'm in it. Rebecca doesn't feel like I'm I'm in it. Rebecca feels like I'm not she's not getting 100% of me. I totally agree. I agree, I I actually uh agree with her, uh especially looking at things in retrospect. While we were having uh that kind of constant argument, because she really does value uh like one-on-one time, like quality time, we actually brought in our pastors. Uh so my both my pastor and his wife, uh, they met with us at our house, and while we were talking about it, it was like an Oprah Winfrey moment where it's like, well, while we're talking about, they start coaching us right on the spot, saying, Hey, uh, so start with how you feel. So say I feel, right? This, this, this. When you do this, it makes me feel blank. I prefer, you know, talk about what you feel, and then they go into like what you prefer. I prefer that you actually uh put your phone away during the times that we're watching TV, and then let's uh you can have your own game time, your own designated game time. We decided on Tuesdays and Thursdays, designated game time where you're uninterrupted. But while you are with me, I prefer you to watch the TV. And that really helped me. I I think what really helps as practical is having another third party there with you who's obviously emotionally um who has a good marriage and who's emotionally regulated and who doesn't like get into it or is biased towards someone to really help you guys navigate through some conflicts, and we're gonna be talking about perpetual conflicts versus you know just you know uh conflicts that you can handle or or fix right away. Um, but for some of those perpetual ones, it really does help to have a third party there.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

So I you've told me about that story, but you this is the first time I'm hearing that your pastor and his wife actually came and sat with you. And I think that's really important. And part of the reason why I ask these questions is because some people don't have that, right? Some people don't have that third party. Maybe they're alone, maybe everyone around them is dysregulated and crazy or whatever the case is. And you know, I think it helps people to break down the process of getting better. So I really appreciate you um telling us about that. Uh, okay, so some takeaways here. Not all fights are the same, uh, which we're gonna talk about. Recognizing the type of conflict that you're in helps you uh, you know, tailor your approach. Gentle startups and emotional regulation is crucial for productive conflict. Again, don't shy away from conflict, but make the conflict productive. And that's going back to what you said. I feel I prefer resolution, and then you know, make that a closed loop. Uh, this is a really good one. Uh, repair and understanding are more important than winning and argument. There is that cliche, happy wife, happy life. I think it talks a little bit about the fact that it's more important to repair the really it's it's about the relationship, and it's it's it's the war, not the battle, right? It's not just that, so you feel good, great. You just shut that person down. I mean, I could talk about my kids where I like scolded them, and I'm like, boom, you're four years old, I'm huge.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

And then they go to sleep, and I'm like just aching. Yeah, in the quarter. I'm like, oh, why am I getting so okay? So to avoid that, I think these are some key things to uh to hold on to.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Can we actually like emphasize on that? Because I think that's such a huge point that a lot of men need to hear that we need to stop pushing and pursuing to be right, and it's really hard because in our jobs, our jobs are rewarded to be right, and it also feels good for our ego, it uplifts our ego, which is what human beings desire, we want to you know increase our ego when we are right, yet in the relationship, being right oftentimes, or pursuing to be right at all costs, will truly lose you the war, right? You want to have a good relationship with your wife. That's what you really want. And yet, because we want to get that emotional satisfaction, that ego stroke of being right, we compromise, we uh we poison our relationship by doing things all to pursue being right. And I just found that that that to be like really important in uh you know how to handle the conflicts well is that stop trying to be right, start trying to pursue how to mend this relationship. And when you say, Oh, I'm right, no one likes being wrong. That's that's a thing. That's why I don't emphasize with Rebecca, my wife, that she's wrong, even though, yeah, technically she is wrong, but I don't emphasize that because it's not going to end up, it's not actually gonna be a a good thing at all, right? Let's try to work towards a mutual understanding, right? Understanding for each other. Let's try to work towards a uh a solution rather than just like, oh, you totally made the mistake. Oh, you were totally wrong about this fact or this data. I don't know about you, but that's something that I've really, really had to swallow my pride and do because that has really helped me in my relationship. Um, but it's hard, it's so hard for men because we're just so trained to be right.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Uh I would bounce that back to you by saying two things that just came up. Number one, it's it's in the book. Um they say the modern condition is that we can wish away any bad feelings with something else. We don't like to sit in the bad emotion. So when things are popping up, like we're having an argument. Like I just had a little thing with my wife Jessica last night because my aunt is coming from Korea.

unknown 20:00

Oh, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

And I'm like, what's the so she's like, so what's the bed, the bed situation gonna be like? And I had a solution. Boom, boom, boom, boom. She's like, No, I don't like that. I'm like, so you want to do this and this and this and go around this and do this? And she's like, Well, it makes me so I already knew. It's like this is going off the rails because I was doing something else. I was actually doing my budgeting. So I'm not even fully there. You're already stressed, and I'm like, oh, okay. So as you feel that emotion, you know, the the book talks about how we can just wish it away by watching on YouTube or Netflix or doing something like a game or whatever. And we have to practice being in those emotions while practicing that technique that we talked about. Um and I think that's a really uh important thing to uh remember. Um I did have a second point, but I forgot it, and I think we're just gonna move on. Let's move on. Uh so the so this is an a very important one. I'll I'll kind of cue you up on this one. So there are two types of fights. Um number one, fights about solvable problems versus fights about perpetual problems. So obviously, solvable problems are things like okay, who's gonna do the chore? Who's gonna pick up the kid? Who's gonna, you know, all the logistical, everyday, mundane things that do add up, honestly. Um, and then perpetual problems would be I'm an introvert, you're an extrovert, you like to go to parties. I don't really like to go to parties, you like to go out, I don't like to go out. I like to travel in Washington because I'm like a you know, Washington guy. You like to go to Europe. I mean, that so these are so what do you think about solvable versus perpetual problems?

SPEAKER_01 21:58

The whole premise of this podcast. Is how do you fight well? Like, how do you fight right? And one of the things that you have to do is distinguish the difference between what is a perpetual problem and what is a solvable solvable problem. Solvable problems are really easy. It's like, okay, it's like I can't pick up the kids at 3 p.m. I have this, you know, yoga class that I have to do for my mental state, something like that, right? It's like, okay, I'll pick up the kids. I can make a compromise there. Those are kind of the easy ones. So distinguishing those that, hey, things that we could fix right away, the perpetual ones are the important ones. And a lot of people fight because of perpetual problems. And you have to be able to distinguish those, right? What like for perpetual problems? This is where communication, communication, communication, this is why every marriage expert will tell you that communication is so key to have a healthy marriage because you have to be able to talk about some of these differences, right? In uh your uh just your core values and what you appreciate and what you um what you truly want. And I just I find it very important to really break that down and figure out also like where you can make compromises. So for example, Rebecca, uh, let's just say she really, really loves to go out, right? And and um she loves to go, she loves to go out with the girls, right? And for me, like I really appreciate quality time. And so how are we gonna work that? Um, how are we gonna work that together? And we really have to talk it through, talk about the first thing is making sure that they feel fully heard. That's number one. It's like you have to really hear them out, make them feel heard, and then you could start talking about okay, then where can be the middle here? But I I think that distinguishing is so important.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

So then we go into so maybe in your mind, as a problem or a conflict is coming up, it's like, okay, let's take a fork in the road. This is a solvable problem versus a perpetual problem. And I think the key point about the perpetual problem is, which is hard, is that you have to accept at a certain level that these will never fully be resolved because you're just different people, and you have to go into it with empathy, humor, and ongoing dialogue, and the goal is to understand and not to win or to dominate over the other person. Um I think this alone, even for me, is a really good because I think a lot of I've seen I've witnessed some people or couples that fight at the same level about everything, and it is very tiring to be around, and it is very stressful as a people in the community or a group. Uh, but I think knowing that some things are just not meant to be solved but understood on, I think is a really good point that we can move on to.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

I just one thing I'll say yeah, for people who are not married, I really encourage them to do premarital counseling. Because I think that really helps you to really understand the differences in your values and really understand so that because really when you're proactive about things, like it just helps so much in terms of missed expectations. Because when there's missed expectations, that's where a lot of conflicts arise, and that's where you get emotionally involved, right? You get like angry and whatnot. And so if you can preemptively work on some of these things, understand where you're going to make some of these compromises, I feel like it'll help so much.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

That was actually what I was going to talk about before I forgot it. Was I totally agree with you? And I think there's a point, even as you learn these things and as you're aware of all the techniques and the nuances, maybe mentally, like in your brain, but maybe you find yourself continue making the same mistakes or the same triggers happen, or maybe it's really going well into here and then just goes downhill. I think that's an honest uh place, whether you're married or unmarried, to have a third party that's neutral come in, maybe either call you out with, you know, uh with love or to give you techniques on the spot. You know, just like working out. Like if you and I are working out and I see you doing a weird squat and it's like this, it's like, okay, let's stop, unrack the weight, and fix your technique.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Because you're not because you're not emotionally involved. Right. Because we talked about how when emotions are involved, that's when you make the biggest mistakes. And so when you have two people who are emotionally involved, it's really hard to like try to stay level-headed and logical. Super hard. We as brokers, okay, the why do there's a lot of brokers who don't sell their own home. Why why would you pay someone three percent, right? Which is could be a lot of money, could be $30,000. Why would you pay someone thirty thousand dollars to sell your home when you know how to do everything? It's because you are emotionally involved and they're not. And so if that emphasizes any importance on how you know how important it is to have a third party there, man, like I don't know. Yeah, it's just it's such a huge thing, and and I think it's really important. So I do encourage people to have some kind of third party, even if it's a friend, to come out and just really objectively go through this conflict together.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah, if anybody needs help, please call Peter and he will come out at any hour of the day. My number is five five five. Five five five five. All right, okay, so moving on to uh gridlocked conflicts. Uh so as it sounds like when perpetual problems become stuck points leading to recurring emotionally charged arguments, maybe it sounds like you always, oh, here we go. You're always, you know, doing this or that. Um how would you start to manage a gridlocked conflict?

SPEAKER_01 28:16

Can you uh talk about some some points?

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, yeah. So uh in the book, uh it does say explore underlying dreams, fears, or values fueling the conflict. Uh again, I just had one of these like three days ago. Use open-minded questions and gentle curiosity to break the deadlock. So, can you expand on that for us?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yeah, I mean, I I think again, it's it's just so important to have that communication to really understand what like because you're gonna keep having the same arguments, right? And so what a lot of people do is they band-aid it, right? So they band-aid it by just like, okay, different, let's just like not deal with this, right? Let's not, where they they they they try to just make up, right? Whatever, have sex, you know. People do whatever they can to like kind of uh resolve it right away, but then it's still an infected wound that you have to put antiseptic on, right? And so I think that's where the lot a lot of the problems happen, where it's like, man, we just keep trying to mask the problem when what we have to do is really deal with the core issue. And that's where it's like you really have to talk, really have to communicate and really understand these differences. Uh, and I think that'll really help you kind of move on because as long as you communicate enough and you have that mutual understanding, then you don't have to like keep having these same arguments, like, hey, we already talked about this. Sometimes you have to rehash that same argument, right? Just to really establish kind of the the expectations and kind of the thought thoughts around it. But really, I I think just really like over-communicating about those differences would really help um not to have that, you know, the problem again.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Right. Um yeah, I was we had a Sunday long distance bike ride with a bunch of our friends with our kids, and we were talking about again, it was 11:30 at night, so it, you know, it was tough to begin with, but we started talking about whether or not we were gonna take a cooler for drinks, yeah. And that somehow escalated into this like I'm like, hold on, what's going on? What how did we get here? And I realized it wasn't about the cooler, it was about the way I communicated to her. It was my tone of voice. And then we were literally arguing about something else, and that's where okay, we have to step back and recognize that we're not really talking about this small issue, it's really a much bigger issue. Um, okay, so another one is uh fights triggered by external stress. You probably have a lot to share on this one. Uh, what are they? Arguments that escalate due to outside pressures, work, family, health, I mean, name it all. You know, World War III, I mean, talk about whatever you want, rather than the relationship itself. And in the book, it says that recognize when stress is a real culprit, offer support, take breaks, and revisit the issue when both partners are calmer. What are your thoughts on this one?

SPEAKER_01 31:21

Something that I've dealt with a lot, honestly, um, with Rebecca. And it, I think Rebecca is so introspective that she can actually identify. Fortunately, she can identify when she realizes that it's not a conflict with me, it's a conflict with what she has been struggling with. And she often actually talks about that. And so let we can kind of couple this with uh um the there's another uh uh problem with with uh conflict where you have uh some triggers that you've you know, just some like uh uh problems that you've had in the past, right? That can be triggering some, you know, something within the conflict. And so um so there's that, and then there's also the external factors. And so uh what has happened a lot of times is like Rebecca would be struggling with like, you know, she had um she'd be oftentimes, so she actually used to have a lot of social anxiety, and so every time before any kind of social gathering, even if it's like another couple, she would actually have these like panic attacks. And a lot of those, like I'm talking within the car, like I saw the same pattern happen over and over again. She would, while we're going to the their house or whatever, or the party, she would actually like start like accusing me of like particular things. Oh yeah? Like what? Uh uh, I I don't remember, right? It's like I'm sure you remember something. It was so traumatic that I I kind of you blocked it out, yeah. Okay. But so so basically, like she would like she would attack me, like, oh, you did this or you did that. But it's like I saw the thing is like I saw the same pattern every time we uh right before a social interaction, she would have this reaction every single time. And then she would afterwards, once she calmed down, because once you get uh because once you get that anxiety attack, you're like elevated, right? And then once she calms down, then the logical brain starts to come, oh, you know what? I'm just I'm really anxious about this social interaction. She used to have serious traumas around social interactions, and so what a lot of people, so the thing is life is really stressful. And for a lot of us, like we have so many stressors in our life, and what happens is we absorb those stressors, and who is there as a punching bag that they can let out that psychological relief, right? Obviously, the the the person in front of you, the person that you have zero, you you just have you have no like filters, right? You have you have nothing. Like that's why we're we can be so mean to our parents, or that's why we could be so mean to our spouses or our kids, because we have no filters, it's at home, and so you just boom. And so I've actually noticed a lot of this where it's like they absorb these stresses, they let things out into the easiest target, which is someone who will love and accept them, most likely. Um, and someone who you just have no filters with. And I'll say one last thing. It's like I actually noticed my dad doing this a lot to us. So my dad, I mean, my dad was really stressed out. He was in real estate, um, he just didn't know how to handle a lot of the conflicts. And I remember he would let it out on his family a lot, right? And I I get it, I don't blame him for that because like I remember life is really stressful, you're financially stressed, and so that's what causes you, you know, like when you're financially stressed and you're just like work stressed, it just like you you just you're you're just trying to get some relief by like letting it out on someone. Oh, and and sorry, last part is this is why I'm so I I try to try to uh let people know the importance of financial um literacy and financial security because when you have that financial security, the the stress reduces significantly, thus it helps your marriage, thus it helps your relationship with your friends and your your kids. So that's why I always say, I mean, you you got elevated because of a you were working on your budgeting, and then you got into a small argument, but I'm sure you were elevated too because you're like Chase stole $15,000 from my account.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Not again, anyway.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Sorry, the one-winded answer.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

I also will add on top of that by saying, Um, I think we're talking about self-soothing in general, and physical health also is very important. You know, taking a walk. Like, how do you self-regulate? You know, how do you on your own bring yourself down? And uh, I think these things are really that's what we keep talking about, the same things. You know, it's financial health, actual health, mental health, spiritual health, right? These are different things that we can go into. Um, so I really appreciate you uh sharing personal stories because I'm sure people um will ask you more off camera about them. Um, okay, so I think that's a really good uh you know, we're wading into okay, conflicts are unavoidable and can actually be productive and can actually at the with the right techniques and with the right ratio of positive to negative interactions can improve a couple's health relationship. Uh, you know, like makeup sex is a real thing, right? And I think and and even uh the Godman said the couples who don't have any conflicts, they're actually worse off because they haven't practiced how to be in battle, right?

SPEAKER_01 36:58

And then when they have the conflict, boom, yeah, have a baby. Divorce.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Yeah, good luck with that, you know. When you're tired and stressed and you're hungry, I mean that's another external conflict.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Um, is having a kid. Uh so you uh oh man, they have this great statistic of how much your uh stress levels increase and how much the conflicts increase post-kid. Because you know kids are really hard. I don't know. Oh, you don't have two kids. Oh, I don't see any black areas.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

That is kids are yeah, that's a whole nother topic. We love our kids, but they're very, very difficult. It just everything's so personal when you have kids, uh, or it could be aging parents. It could be, you know, all these things combined. Parents, for sure. So maybe just take a moment for yourself and say, what is my self-soothing look like? How am I bringing the conversations to my partner who is my partner in life? How do I recognize different triggers? Is it you know perpetual? Is it solvable? Is it external? You know, trying to identify and label those things, I think, are what we just covered. And lastly, uh, I'd like to comment on and take get your take on. So, what is the Gottman's framework for uh repairing after the conflict, right? So there's the five-step recovery framework, um, sharing feelings, describing realities, identifying triggers, taking responsibility, and then ultimately creating a plan, like an actual constructive plan. Um, of course, try to avoid emotional flooding, where again, it's that physical, just walk away, agree to, walk away and come back, and then how to do a softened startup so that you can start the conflict and argument the right way and don't be afraid of it. What are your thoughts on this as we close?

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Yeah, I mean, I I mean, I I think you said it all. I I think there's just certain techniques. I I would recommend everybody to read the book, first of all, how to fight right. Uh, that would be the best way. And then, of course, practice makes perfect. And so you're gonna have an argument with somebody at some point, probably within the near future. And so go through some of these techniques. I I would recommend everybody just to go through some of these techniques, even if you could take one or two techniques, like, for example, just how to start the fight well, right? Don't try to be right, don't try to just feel good about and just bring someone down and just tell them how wrong they are. Start the fight well, share with them your feelings, focus more on your feelings rather than what they've done wrong, right? Uh, and then also identifying, distinguishing like the differences between differences between perpetual and um, you know, things that you can actually change, like the constructive ones, um, or uh not constructive, but things that you can actually resolve, uh, I think is really important because if fits the perpetual differences, then you really have to like communicate well um and try to resolve it so you don't have this you know infected womb that just will keep you know getting infected. And then I I love the part about the responsibility, right? Because we need to take responsibility for what we can change and what we can control. I'm sorry I got angry, right? It's like I'm right about this situation, but I'm sorry for getting angry and shouting at you. You know, one of the things Rebecca does really well is she takes responsibility for what she feels like she did bad, and it's like I'm sorry, I got mad a lot of times. And that really helps, that really helps me, just as the receiver, it um neutralizes me, it makes me my pride kind of goes down. It's like, oh, and that'll that'll do it for any partner. It's like when you say sorry first, when you take responsibility for what you have done wrong, it just man, it there's it just melts you. Uh and then like I've mentioned before, it's like having that constructive like, okay, what can we do about it from here on out? What can we actually resolve here? Okay, you want to go on a lot of vacations. I'm a homebody. How are how are we gonna resolve this? Right? Because there has to be some kind of resolve. Like, listen, I know you love uh going on vacations. Maybe we can be in the middle, right? We're constantly negotiating on our business. You want to go four times a year, I'm gonna go nine times a year. How about two? Right?

SPEAKER_00 41:34

So I love that. Yeah, I mean, practice makes perfect, but then also perfect practice makes perfect. So yeah. Um, anyway, I love that. Um, please reach out to us if you want Peter to help you counsel your marriage. Five, five, five. But no, those are all great points that I think uh, even myself, I'll be pondering about this. Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

So me too. Well, thanks guys for watching. Uh, please like and subscribe to our channel. We really appreciate you guys uh watching our stuff, the very few that do watch, and we'll continue to give more. If you like uh what you hear, then we'll continue to give more uh advice on relationships. Not that we are experts, but we like to break down what the experts say, and so we can personally learn with you guys. So thank you guys again, and we'll see you guys on the next episode.