Unashamed with Markus & Nehemiah
Join Markus and Nehemiah as they discuss life, ministry and living unashamed for Jesus.
Unashamed with Markus & Nehemiah
Episode 4: Bridge, Not Island: How to Lead Without Making It About You
Markus and Nehemiah explore the delicate balance between humility and leadership in faith, offering practical wisdom for staying grounded while guiding others spiritually.
• Playful discussion about which disciples would have the messiest Instagram feeds and group chat behaviors
• Humility in leadership comes from remembering ministry is about Jesus, not personal platform
• Leaders should function as bridges connecting people to God, not islands where people remain focused on the leader
• Successful ministries face unique dangers of pride when leaders become less dependent on God
• Balancing grace and truth requires leading with love while standing firm on God's Word
• Public rebukes on social media contradict Jesus's teaching on correction (Matthew 18:15)
• "If we prayed more than we posted, that would change the game"
• Community is essential for sustainable spiritual growth and accountability
• The African proverb rings true: "If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together"
Check us out on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram. Like, share, and subscribe. Send us your questions and let's go unashamed together.
Welcome back to the Unashamed Podcast with your hosts, marcus and Nehemiah, excited to get into it today. Nemo, how you feeling?
Speaker 2:I'm feeling good, bro, I'm ready to go. This dude took two hours to set up this setup, so this better be a good podcast.
Speaker 1:Amen, it will be. Fingers crossed, here we go, let's get it, man. So I would love to start this podcast off with a funny question For sure. First one I want to ask is which? Disciple would have the messiest instagram feed judas for sure, we think the same thing. There's no way, it's not it's had to be judas, I do would probably have like he'd be making it rain Bro.
Speaker 2:And like just I say Judas, yeah, or Solomon, his stuff would probably be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wild, yeah, that would be Wild Wild. I feel like Peter might have been posting some crazy stuff too, because one minute he'd be like on fire for the Lord. Yeah, and the next minute he'd be like Slash and dash, just kind of like Slash.
Speaker 2:Slash and.
Speaker 1:Dash, he'd be tweaking.
Speaker 2:Nah Daniel would definitely have the most views, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh for sure, taking pictures of the Lions. Then, bro, I would have been like winning Crazy, like they said we couldn't do it, but we did it. Or just imagine Shadrach, meshach and Abednego Like what their feet would look like.
Speaker 2:Crazy.
Speaker 1:Like man is with us. People talk about throwing up the fours when they play football. No, they would have been like oh, he's with us.
Speaker 2:We don't even smell like smoke.
Speaker 1:That's exactly how it'd be too for sure, I'm gonna ask one more. I'm gonna ask one more okay, go ahead, all right. Um, if jesus had a group chat with the disciples? Who's always sending memes and who's always left on red? Oh, I just feel like peter probably would be left on red because everybody's been like bro, like chill chill, calm down. Okay, we get it he said you're up on this rock, I'll build my church.
Speaker 2:Okay, we know he loves you relax bro bro who would be sending memes, though?
Speaker 1:I mean, I feel like john, for sure I think it'd be John yeah, I wonder what he'd be sending like this crazy rebel cuz didn't he write. He had to mention that he outran right, yeah, even in John 21, when Peter is restored by the Lord, john's the one who's on the boat saying hey, peter, it's the Lord.
Speaker 2:Like why you yeah, why you always got to be cosigning. Why are you always saying something?
Speaker 1:yeah, man, there's a lot of us man that can relate to that man. But yeah, let's get into this man. Let's just break some questions down and kind of see where it goes yeah, man.
Speaker 2:So we've been able to look at some discussion questions, and one that we came across was how do you stay rooted in humility while leading others in faith? What do you got for that, marcus man? How do you stay rooted in humility while leading others in faith? What do you got for that, marcus?
Speaker 1:man, how do you stay rooted in humility while leading others in faith? Man, being rooted in humility is one always remembering it's not about you, ministry isn't about us, ministry is unto the lord, and if I want to walk with humility, I have to constantly deny my flesh and deny anything that would try to propel me or put me on a platform or on a pedestal. And, I think, remaining humble, realizing ministries about jesus. Yeah, it's not about us. As many people that they may like your post and it may reshare your things, it's not about you and leading others in faith. Like it's important that, like, if I'm not making ministry about jesus, then I'm making it about myself. Yeah, and some people will use faith to get there. And so I think, man, most important thing is fasting helps humble my flesh. It does. What would you say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say for sure. When I feel my pride rise up, it hits me immediately. I need to humble myself every night. That's something that I have to come back to every single night is reminding myself that I would not be where I'm at, or can do what I can do, without the Lord.
Speaker 2:I think that our, our relationship with Jesus as teachers and as leaders, should be that of like a bridge. So if we are seen as like this Island that's connected to the mainland, we are this bridge that connects the people who are straight away from God to God, and if we keep people on our bridge and we keep the people on our heart and on what we think is important, then we're not doing the job of a bridge, we're not passing people through. We're just supposed to be a vessel of which people flow, so we're supposed to flow the words that we hear from god to them, and then, on transaction, those people should be coming to the lord, yeah, and if they're coming to you, they're texting you. Like you've mentioned this before, it's like people need to learn how to have a relationship with jesus, like you're calling me about every single thing that you're struggling with. A lot of it should be filtered through prayer, for sure.
Speaker 1:The first thing you ask them is like hey, have you prayed about?
Speaker 2:it Right.
Speaker 1:And if they haven't prayed, then we don't have anything to talk about.
Speaker 2:For sure. Yeah, I think for me, no matter how big or small the circumstance is, it needs to be filtered through prayer. People say what's your time with God? Look like All the time. It should be always an open conversation between you and God, because that's what it should be with leaders.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what produces humility, because the Bible says he opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Yeah, and pride is one of those things. We can be walking in pride and not realize it. Yeah, pride and not realizing it. The scariest thing for me is to be blinded with pride and not realizing it, to be deceived to the point where I actually think I'm walking in humility, but it's actually pride and others around me won't say anything about it.
Speaker 1:I think the fruit of your life would really tell the truth. If you're walking in humility, if you've got people around you that are yes-men and they're always shouting your name and they're not shouting Jesus' name, then chances are I've been walking consistently, maybe in a season of pride, and I'm making ministry about myself and not the Lord.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a big thing is having people around you who aren't impressed with you. It comes back to this question how do I stay rooted in humility while leading others in faith? It's like you need accountability. If we watch over time, the pastors that have fallen have fallen. The leaders that have fallen are all pastors who refuse to have accountability catch this.
Speaker 1:I saw a pastor actually say this recently on, I think it was on a podcast. He said small and struggling churches, those leaders, don't fall. It's the ones who are the most successful that fall because when you're successful, you don't feel like you need anybody, you're not accountable, you're not dependent on god anymore, and that's a scary place to be, because at the end of the day, all of us want to be successful, but we have to identify what is success yeah and my success, successful ministry to me is remaining so dependent on jesus to do it yeah like I have to believe that jesus can do.
Speaker 1:The moment that I think that I can do something without him is the moment that I set myself up to have the most catastrophic fall, because there's a lot of people that don't depend on Jesus anymore to be effective in ministry because it looks the part, it looks good. But you know, humility, man, it's not necessarily thinking about yourself less, it's thinking about others more, not necessarily thinking about yourself. Less is thinking about others more yeah, for sure thinking about jesus more so and I think it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's such a big thing because you said it's, it's usually the big churches, it's the, it's the big time pastors who fall. I think remembering where you started is such a big thing, like remember what you did in day one, remember how that. I mean even the bible talks about how the love you once had is no longer there. Yeah, so like, where is your love at now? Do you still do the same things that you did when you were in bible school? Do you still do this? Do you still do the same things that you did when you're on fire? When you're on fire, when you were that kid at that summer camp and you got caught on fire by the holy spirit, like are, are you still? Do you still have that same heart? And so I think if we just hold on to the youth of our belief and the youth of our faith and we filter everything through the Holy Spirit, I believe we can walk in humility and still lead a lot of people, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Which leads me to my next question, Like how do you balance grace and truth when discussing tough topics?
Speaker 2:Ooh, wow. I think the truth of God has grace inputted into it already, so I don't think we need to answer with our own opinion. We can just answer with the Word of God. I love doing that.
Speaker 1:Let them argue with the Word.
Speaker 2:Because they're not mad at me. You can't be mad at me. People get offended by John 14, 6 all the time. I am the way, I am the truth. I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life. The signifies one. So he's only one who can give you these things. And when people say, no, this is my truth, this is your truth, this is my way, this is your way, no, no, no. There's one way, and so the way that I tend to filter grace and truth is literally just giving them the word of God. Let them be met with the word.
Speaker 1:That's so good. Yeah, when you know I have to, I have to ask myself am I supposed to address every topic that comes across? Because I think a lot of believers right now we've got a lot of God's policemen out there yeah, you know they want to like Holy spirit.
Speaker 1:Number two, I think the Holy Spirit can do it by himself, but we feel like we're supposed to address every negative thought or negative teaching in the world, and I believe that some people are called to that form of ministry. But I ask myself what am I called to? Am I called to be a person that reflects the one I worship? And there are times, especially within the context of relationship, that you bring correction.
Speaker 2:You bring truth.
Speaker 1:But when I look at someone who doesn't know the Lord post something online, well, I'm not surprised when the world acts like the world. Yeah, but I also want to be full of the truth of god, because the bible says in matthew 10, verses 32 and 33 if you deny me before man, I would deny you before my father, who's in heaven. I never want to deny god, but I have to use the grace and and love of god and I have to care about who I'm talking.
Speaker 1:I can't just want to bring truth to somebody for the sake of bringing truth. If you've got all truth and no love, then it's pointless. If you've got all love and no truth then it's pointless.
Speaker 1:And so finding that balance of like, hey, man, I love you so much, and they know that I love them. Like, hey, I see you're living in sin. I see you're doing things that, man not, it's not producing fruit in your life. Yeah, I've got people in my family right now walking through really hard stuff. Yeah, they're walking through depression and anxiety and you know, one person actually wants to take their life and they're not submitted to god. And I'm like, well, hey, like man, like the lord loves you, he, he's calling, he wants to be in a relationship with you.
Speaker 1:But there's this wrestle, because people have been hurt by the church, they've been hurt by god and so they don't want anything to do with it. I could easily just say, hey, man, well, you're gonna go to hell. But like what does that profit? Yeah, man, so like, how do you tell your generation that a lot of them we've we've kind of watered down the gospel in a way, and we, you know, I've seen young people. They're given an opportunity in the platform instantly and then they start teaching and what they're teaching isn sound. So how do you bring correction in relationship to people that may be doing some of those things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think there's a way of presenting things, there's a way of presenting love, there's a way of presenting truth, there's a way of presenting grace and if we present it in a way that's like, what I see on social media is that people are openly rebuking people who they've never met before. So so you have no place in that life. Like jesus beautifully articulates how to walk through correcting somebody, yeah, he does. He walks through you address him, then you come with somebody else. That's one on one. We have. We have open rebukes from people who have four million views, four million people. That was never in in jesus's command on how to address somebody. So for me in my generation is I think people who water down the gospel can't? It started with a good heart. They just want to touch the, the people who are listening, they want to bring more people to christ, but they want to present it in a loving way. But I think the last thing we should water down is the Word of God.
Speaker 2:I think we should just interpret it for what it says. So when I'm talking to somebody, when I'm correcting somebody, the thing I lead with is love. You lead with love, you lead with love, you lead with grace, and then you back it, you give it a foundation of the Word of God, which is your truth.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And here's what it says in Matthew 18, verses 15. Moreover, if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. Yes, it says if your brother. It doesn't say if the influence you see on social media. It says if your brother sins against you, if it's not a sin against you, why are we always addressing all these different things? That really has nothing to do with us. It's easy to sit back and want people to. You know, we want them to have the revelation that we've had of the scriptures or hold them to our own convictions, but man, that's just not ever going to be the case. Them to our own convictions, but man, that's just not ever going to be the case. But if I find somebody that has a sin against me and they're a brother man, the bible says go to them, talk to them, have a conversation with them, give them an opportunity to repent. Most of us don't want to give people an opportunity to repent because the fence is so strong.
Speaker 1:Yeah and it's easier to run away from relationships and fight for relationships and my thing is like how does the outside viewer view that?
Speaker 2:the unbeliever that You're scrolling on social media and you're seeing this Christian openly rebuke a Christian? In the eye of the unbeliever, you're like man. I don't want to be involved in that. I don't want to be involved in that family. It's not love, that's hate. And what really sticks out to me is John 13, 35. And Jesus says by this, all people will know that you are my disciples. If you people will know that you are my disciples if you have love for one another, if you're leading with rebuke and you're not leading with love you don't even know this person.
Speaker 2:He lives 5 000 miles from you and you're claiming off of a 30 second clip that he's preaching the wrong gospel. It's gonna it's not gonna, present love if context is everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people think that you hear something online and maybe you don't fully agree with it and all of a sudden you build this idea around who they are.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think both of us have been victim of that. People will maybe hear something that we've said and don't really understand the heart or context. Yeah, but I just try not to even trip over on those kinds of things and just keep walking in love, and what I've learned is those who matter matter, matter for sure. But if you're listening to this and you're somebody that has all this righteous indignation, like I would say, submit it back to the Lord. Yeah, god didn't call you to be his policeman. He calls you to be a son or his daughter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, be a son or a daughter, be full of the love of God, because you can spend time with Jesus in such a way that they can tell who you spent time with and getting around them. The presence of God can change. Yeah, can do what words can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And um, but there is a time for correction, there is a time for rebuke. If I got, if I have a brother who loves the Lord and maybe they're starting to to steer off path.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's what Paul did with Peter. Like there's a place for that yeah. But I think going on social media first, it's not that place. No, I've done. I'll call them like hey, I want to understand this more, because I'm seeking to understand, not seeking to be right. So many people seek to be correct and they want to be right, and I'd rather lose an argument with my brother.
Speaker 2:There's no end to that conversation either. I think the biggest thing is that we have to, like I said, lead with love. Are we leading with love? Are we leading with a posture that like not even from your heart? It might come from a good place, but the look also matters too, and this is where we belittle the power of prayer. Is that if there's somebody that you see a clip of, and they are preaching heresy, your job isn't to go on social media and openly rebuke them. Your job is to pray for them.
Speaker 1:Legit. If we prayed more than we posted, that would change the game. If we prayed more than we posted, that would change the game.
Speaker 2:If we prayed more than we posted.
Speaker 1:I even feel it. Now Some people that listen to this are like but no, we got to make sure that we defend God. First of all, the truth doesn't need to defend itself. Why do you think that you need to defend God? Why don't you live as a believer and let that be the greatest defense that you walk in? But we're building these platforms, calling people out. If you really love people go to the father on their behalf.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you believe in the power of prayer? Do you believe in the power of intercession? We would much rather warn people instead of go to the lord and they say they really are preaching heresy. Yeah, I do think if it is a brother, there's a space to go to that brother and talk to them. It's not going online and trying to blast them like that. That just isn't the case. Yeah, man, I think I would love for you to answer this question as we kind of wrap this episode up, if you could go back and give your younger self one piece of spiritual advice what would it be man Involve into the community more?
Speaker 2:I think there was no significant change within me until I had the right people around me. I need community. We were made for community. My gift has no purpose if there's no people around. There has to be a community of people. That's where I got to grow and exercise my gift. And when I isolate, I don't know where I'm called. I don't know. Yeah, I get to hear from God. I'm in the secret place, but at the same time, god also created us for community and we need people for accountability. It aligns with all of our questions. It all is under the frame of community and we need community to grow.
Speaker 2:And so if I go back, I would sit him down, 13-year-old, arrogant Nehemiah. I'd say hey, man, I know you think you can do this alone. I know you've done a lot of things alone successfully, but you'll do it longer with people. So good, because, like you can do anything really fast by yourself. I mean you can do anything really fast by yourself. Yeah, I mean you can do it really fast by yourself. But will it sustain? Yeah, and that's as I grow and grow with Christ. It's less about how quick I can do something, but more of how long I can sustain something that's so good.
Speaker 1:An old African proverb says if you want to go you know, fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And we're better together than we are apart. We were created for community and like that probably echoes the same thing, I would tell younger Marcus like hey, people actually love you, people are actually for you. I know you feel isolated and alone, but people love you and lean into the right relationships because, relationships can help cut you.
Speaker 1:They can trim the fat off and help you become even better. So just excited to to keep digging into these topics with you and you know I just thank God for you know your willingness and your vulnerability to be honest, because there's a generation that's rising up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man.
Speaker 1:And they need to learn what it means to live unashamed. Yeah, bro. So guys, thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Unashamed Podcast. Man man, listen, tune in wherever you listen to podcasts at. Check us out on youtube or on tiktok instagram, like, share, subscribe. Yes, send us your questions. Let's go be afraid to live wildly unashamed amen, thank you for watching.
