The Lemon Lawyer on Navigating Lemon Laws

Ever wondered what happens when your brand-new dream car turns into a mechanical nightmare? Hovanes Margarian, known as "The Lemon Lawyer," pulls back the curtain on the fascinating world of automotive consumer protection law in this eye-opening conversation.

From his unique garage-turned-law-office where client vehicles undergo inspection alongside his personal collection (including a Ferrari SF90 Spider), Margarian reveals the inner workings of lemon law cases that have defined his 20-year career. With remarkable candor, he explains how manufacturers often make strategic decisions about settling claims based not just on case merit, but on their own financial timing and broader liability concerns.

The conversation delivers surprising insights that every car owner should know. Margarian explains why class action settlements frequently serve manufacturers better than consumers, offering modest compensation while extinguishing potentially valuable individual refund claims. He also shares how the timeline from claim to resolution can vary dramatically depending on a manufacturer's willingness to acknowledge defects.

Beyond legal strategies, the episode takes fascinating detours into automotive technology and history. Jeff explores car innovations directly descended from NASA's space program – from memory foam seats to anti-lock brakes – while Mike guides us through the 178-mile stretch of Route 66 that winds through Texas, highlighting iconic stops like Cadillac Ranch and the official midpoint between Chicago and Los Angeles.

Whether you're dealing with a problematic vehicle or simply fascinated by the intersection of automotive culture and consumer rights, this episode delivers valuable knowledge wrapped in entertaining conversation. Follow Hovanes on Instagram @Hovanes.Margarian_ESQ for more automotive legal insights and subscribe to hear more from the In Wheel Time team.

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Transcript

Meeting the Lemon Lawyer

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to another In Wheel Time podcast, a 30-minute mini version of the In Wheel Time Car Show that airs live every Saturday morning, 8 to 11 am Central.

Speaker 1 0:09

Coming up. We talk to a real lemon lawyer. What happens when the cars we buy and hate so much when we want our money back? What happens Later? Jeff has car tech that originated from the space program. Oh yeah, and Mr Mars has five things about Route 66 in Texas. Did you know it went through Texas? It did Howdy Along with Mike out of this world. Mars. We always need more Jeff Zekin, chief Engineer David Ainsley with us this morning. I'm Don Armstrong, glad you could join us today. I'm dying to get into this, but before we move on I have to get a pronunciation.

Speaker 3 0:51

Is it.

Speaker 1 0:51

Hovannis.

Speaker 3 0:52

Margarian Uh-oh, he's muted.

Speaker 1 0:53

You have to unmute yourself.

Speaker 3 0:54

There you go.

Speaker 1 0:55

Hovannis.

Speaker 2 0:56

Margarian. Good morning. Say it again Hovannis, hovannis, hovannis.

Speaker 4 1:01

Margarian there you go Perfect.

Speaker 3 1:04

You were close, very close. You pronounced that correctly, well.

Speaker 1 1:06

I'm sorry. I'm sure that I'm not the only person that screwed up your name. It's all good, okay, very good. So I have to ask you where are you and how did you get situated in such a way that you are now known as the lemon lawyer.

Speaker 2 1:29

So such a way that you are now known as the lemon lawyer. So I'm in my garage, um, I'm. I got situated this way because I've been doing this for 20 years now, exclusively litigating lemon law cases and dealer fraud cases and class actions against car manufacturers and car dealers. So during law school I was brokering cars. I got to learn the industry, how car sales are processed and everything and all the good and the bad side of the automotive industry. And then, right out of law school, I started representing consumers with claims against manufacturers and dealers.

Speaker 2 1:59

And you know it's been almost 20 years now, that 2006 and a few years back I had this vision. I've always hosted events. I always, uh, I'm very social. So I had this vision to have a place where I can invite friends hang out, have like a man cave, uh, car collection area and an inspection area. So I picked up these properties. So my law firm is actually next to this building where I'm sitting right now, and then this is my garage area and I'm going to swerve around. The other side is my office, where I also have cars. I usually have one or two cars there. Behind me are a couple of my cars, so the Mustang Super Snake, the Ferrari SF90 Spider, and then this is the Factory 5, 1965 Shelby Cobra replica that we just finished building here, actually.

Speaker 4 2:55

It was at the paint shop.

Speaker 2 2:56

So we just got it back like two weeks ago.

Speaker 4 2:58

So all of those have been involved in a lemon law. No no they haven't been involved in a lemon law.

Speaker 2 3:03

These are my cars. I do have a Lamborghini outside. That's part of a lemon law. No, no, I haven't been involved in the lemon law. These are my my cars. I do have a lamborghini outside. That's part of a lemon law case. So occasionally, when clients are pretty much fed up with their car and they don't want to drive it anymore because it's unsafe, they I let them park it in my parking lot until the case is resolved.

Speaker 2 3:19

So we usually have a couple of cars around that belong to clients that are defective. But on a typical day I have clients coming in with their paperwork and their cars, because we do inspect the cars here. If we need to put it up on the lift, we'll do that. Otherwise, usually we'll run diagnostics because we have all the computers to run the codes to see what's going on. We use that in between the paperwork that the consumers get from the dealers, because sometimes the paperwork is detailed and thorough. Other times the dealers are skipping over things and refusing to admit the effect. So we run the codes ourselves so that we know what's going on with each car.

Speaker 4 3:56

So are all of these vehicles exotics, or is it just any vehicle that you represent?

Speaker 2 4:01

So it's any vehicle. No, it's the consumer laws applied to all new consumer vehicles. So as long as it was purchased brand new in California, brand new in other states, the used cars may still be covered. Then you have certain rights and the way I explain it is this you get a car, a new car. They all come with warranties right. So the warranty says if something breaks we'll fix it. So it's reasonable for a car to have one or two issues, minor issues. But then there's the lemon law that goes on top of your warranty and says if the number of repairs, the defects, the problems this car exhibits become unreasonable or the dealer takes too long to fix it and the circumstances are unfair, the code section says if the issues interfere with the use or safety of the car, then you may have a lemon lock claim where you should get a refund. So that's where kind of the defect heightens to the level of necessitating review from us and then if it's a viable case, then we'll make the claim for a refund from the manufacturer.

Speaker 1 5:01

Now can you practice law here in Texas.

Speaker 2 5:05

Technically right now no, but I'm in the process of getting reciprocal admission, which means if you're licensed in California as an attorney, you can get automatic admission in Texas, as long as you apply and you qualify, like you have no issues in your records, which I don't. So I'm in the process of doing that and we're looking into expanding in Texas in the near future.

Speaker 1 5:25

Let's talk about the General Motors 6.2 liter V8 that has been recalled, but it didn't get recalled originally. And all of these consumers were having major issues with engine failure, which is obviously the major component of a car Thousands and thousands of dollars and the engine didn't work or it malfunctioned. Have you been involved in any of that?

Speaker 2 5:51

Yeah, so we have cases where the clients experience that issue. Usually whenever there's either a mass recall or well, we start with the mass defect. Right, Some component is defective and then people start complaining. As they start complaining, we start noticing a pattern at my office and we're filing individual cases, initially when we feel like there's a peak, like too many people complaining with the same issue. Then we look into whether there's a recall that's coming up or whether we should file a class action to insist that the manufacturer issues a recall or a repair on that component. So as far as my involvement, I have cases. I have clients who have defected cars, but we haven't filed a class on this one ourselves.

Speaker 2 6:39

And then now GM realized that it issued the recall. And what's interesting about recalls? A recall gives you a repair, hopefully, where they replace the part with something that works better or a new part. But you may still have a lemon claim because under the lemon laws, if you've had the issue a couple of times or if it took a long time for them to repair it even once, you may be entitled to a full refund. So the manufacturers kind of chime in to do a recall to prevent thousands of car owners from filing the Lemon Law cases. So that's really their reaction to stop that, so kind of to get people to the remedy, because they're worried that all these people are now going to start filing Lemon Law cases.

Speaker 1 7:25

When you have a problem with a vehicle and we get into the Lemon Law thing. Do you notify nitza that you see this pattern happening right now, today, and you filed all these cases and you guys need to get involved in that. Do you do that?

Speaker 2 7:39

I, I don't. I honestly my. My approach is to just deal directly with the manufacturer and see how they're going to respond and if they're being unreasonable. And I'll tell you why. There is a subsectionsection, at least in the California code section, that says if they willfully refuse to fix a car and offer a remedy, like if there is a continuous defect, then the case becomes worth three times the amount of the claim. So from the perspective of representing my client's best interest, I mean at some point we're pushing them to repair the cars. But then there's a turning point where we're done with that and we're saying well, this is our claim, we want three times. And if you're going to be unreasonable and you're not going to admit the defect, then so be it. We'll litigate, we'll get to trial, we're going to seek three times.

Speaker 2 8:24

Which is why a lot of my recoveries are like I have record recoveries on cases where I will litigate all the way and get ready for trial and then it's too late for them to back out, it's too late to offer a basic refund, so then they have to pay me two times or three times to settle out. So for that purpose I don't get authorities involved in that sense and also a long time ago I decided not to do that for another reason I was doing a lot of dealer fraud cases, suing dealers, and we noticed that when we complain to too many people then the dealers fall and go bankrupt and then there's nobody to pay my client. So I have to be kind of careful not to put anybody out of business. With my cases I'm kind of focused on getting that client the remedy they deserve.

Speaker 4 9:09

So how long does it take for a start of a claim to resolution? Is there any time frame or are they all different?

How Lemon Law Cases Work

Speaker 2 9:16

So the typical process is we assess the case a couple of days, then we're ready to go. We'll do a full explanation to the client of what the merits are on their case, what the numbers look like in the high end, low end and everything. I disclose everything and then we start the case. A demand letter goes out giving the manufacturer 30 days. Some manufacturers respond within two, three weeks and if they're rational they'll say okay, we got a deal, we'll buy back the car. Here's the calculation. Give us a couple more weeks, we'll do the paperwork. So with those scenarios scenarios you're out of the car literally in about six to eight weeks. You're done, your loan is paid off, your refund is issued and then your attorney's fees are paid separately. In other scenarios, where they're delaying, procrastinating or just flat out refusing to admit that there is a defect, it will. We will end up filing the lawsuit after the 30 days expires. I literally will sue them the next day, on the 31st day, because I work very strictly, I don't mess around, I don't just sit around and beg them for a settlement. So we will sue them and then, as soon as discovery starts, we will start propounding discovery, requesting their paperwork, requesting their internal person most knowledgeable to be deposed and things of that nature, dealer personnel and then the reaction to that again depends on the manufacturer and on the said case. Sometimes they will quickly respond saying, okay, okay, stop, we've got a settlement, we're going to take care of you.

Speaker 2 10:42

Let's look at the numbers. Other times they will delay things and it's kind of sometimes it's counterintuitive how they react, although when we look at the bigger picture, their reactions are based on a lot of internal factors. For example, if they get hit with a thousand, five thousand lawsuits this month and they don't want to pay out a couple million dollars next month, even if the lawsuits have perfect merits, they will still refuse to settle those cases. So we see a lot of the dynamics are a mix between the merits of the case and their business strategy and their cash flow, which a lot of times consumers don't realize. Or you know, on the individual side you don't really care what's going on at this manufacturer, you just want your refund. But they're looking at as a big picture and if we sue them, unfortunately the trial date is going to be a year or two out. So they're looking at it saying, well, this liability is not really becoming a big deal until a year from now. So let's settle this in three months when we have better cash flow.

Speaker 1 11:48

Then we don't want to settle it now do you have any class actions going on now?

Speaker 2 11:53

um, nothing that pops up in my mind. I mean, I've done a few where, like check engine oil, over consumption things like that, brake issues and a couple couple things of that nature, I haven't had anything interesting, exciting recently. Um, that I would focus on the you know. And then as far as the class actions, the manufacturers actually benefit from the class actions because what they try to do is the following they've got a car with a defect. They get thousands of claims for repairs and then the refund claims start rolling in and they'll. They're literally hoping somebody will sue them as a class action so that they can settle everybody out and say, okay, everybody's getting a thousand dollars for the inconvenience and everybody gets the repair and everybody's claims are waived, which actually, on a grand scale, is a big settlement. But a lot of times those class members have individual refund claims for $50,000, $100,000. And those all get knocked out when there's a class action settlement. So that's kind of the unfair side of class actions.

Speaker 1 13:04

Okay. So if somebody offers you let's say, for instance, that I've got a 6.2 liter nobody's doing anything, but there's a class action going on. I'm probably better off suing individually than I am joining a class action.

Speaker 2 13:20

Yes, so typically we'll review the paperwork. If you have an individual claim, you're absolutely better off because the class is not going to be that everybody's getting their hundred thousand dollar purchase price back right, it's gonna be everybody's getting a new engine, uh, a new warranty or extended warranty or 500 credit. But on the individual claim, if you meet the criteria, then you're getting your refund. So you're way better off if you meet the parameters to do an individual claim, to opt out of the class action, to get your $80,000 refund, for example. Which is why the manufacturers are pushing the class action and the settlement. They're not doing it because they're nice. They're getting a slap on the wrist for something that's a huge liability to them. They're just paying out a fraction of what it would cost to pay out all the individual claimants do you have any?

Speaker 1 14:14

do you have any dealerships that you are working with that are suing manufacturers?

Speaker 2 14:20

not really no, because they're pretty much very dependent on the manufacturer, so that they're complacent in the whole process.

Speaker 3 14:28

They don't want to bite the hand that feeds right yeah, yeah they'll.

Class Actions vs. Individual Claims

Speaker 2 14:31

They'll shut down the allocations and then they'll be out of business. So you don't have that. Um, you know, and typically dealers, they know me but they they kind of shy away from me personally because I sue the manufacturers a lot, occasionally, the dealers I. I get these off the record referrals from all the dealers because they all know I pretty much run all the cases, most of the cases in California. I'm very, very well established. But they can't establish direct relationships with me because it's going to be a conflict with the manufacturers that I'm suing and occasionally I depose their people as witnesses. So we can't have a formal good relationship in most occasions, although there are a lot of dealers that are friendly.

Speaker 2 15:20

They operate clean, they don't do shady things, so I'm on very good terms with them and if something comes up I have a very candid approach, like if somebody has a claim, thinks they have a claim, but you look at the merits that there is no claim, I will turn that consumer away. I'll explain why they have no case. Maybe they're upset about something, but I'll tell them look, don't, don't do this. There's no, there are no merits to your claim. Just go away, let it go, don't file anything frivolous I'm that's not what I'm into um kind of the same thing on the like the legal malpractice right there's. It's a separate, it's an unrelated area. But a lot of people don't do that. I have a tendency, if somebody says this attorney did something wrong, I go tell me what they did. Let me go through the facts with you. And then usually I'm like look, you didn't do anything wrong. If you didn't anything. I don't want somebody getting sued or attacked if they didn't really do anything wrong.

Speaker 1 16:14

I hate to interrupt, but we're short on time here. I didn't want to ask you do you have a website that we can go to to get more information, or how do we get in touch with you, or that sort of thing?

Speaker 2 16:26

The best way is my Instagram. The best way is my Instagram. It's my name Hovanes H-O-V-A-N-E-S dot Margarian, m-a-r-g-a-r-i-a-n. Underscore E-S-Q for Esquire. So I'm very active on Instagram. I post the legal educational videos and then car content. My wife does the same thing. She's an attorney. We work together, so that's the best way to stay in touch and informed and then, if questions come up, just you.

Speaker 1 16:57

That way, you can reach out to us and then when you want to have a fun time on a fun car show, you know us inwheeltimecom yes, absolutely. Jovanis, thank you so much for joining us today very informative and we really appreciate your time. Best of luck to you. Stay in touch with us.

Speaker 2 17:14

All right. Thank you for having me Take care. Thank you.

Car Tech from NASA

Speaker 1 17:16

Just ahead Jeff's car culture, today's car tech that we stole from the space program and Mars has five things about Route 66 in Texas. All that and more right after this break on the In Wheel Time Car Talk Show in Texas. All that and more right after this break on the In-Wheel Time Car Talk Show. The Tex-Mex dining experience is defined by Loopy Tortilla your destination for Texas's best beef fajitas and frozen margaritas. Since 1983, loopy Tortilla has served authentic and time-tested recipes made with the freshest ingredients. Atmosphere is part of the award-winning experience at Loopy Tortilla, all developed in a little house near Highway 6 and I-10 in West Houston. Visit any of the Loopy Tortillas and you'll see the same attention to detail in each and every location. Start your Loopy experience with queso flammeado and guacamole, along with a classic frozen margarita. Dine on famous Loopy beef and chicken fajitas, or pepper shrimp brochette, or a fish or vegetarian entree, and finish with a scrumptious flan for dessert. Find Loopy Tortilla in Houston College Station, beaumont, austin, san Antonio and Dallas-Fort Worth. There's a Texas location near you. The recipes are authentic and time-tested, the ingredients always fresh. Loopy Tortilla it's pretty good. Apple or Android In Wheel Time podcasts can be found everywhere on the stream and through downloads.

Speaker 1 18:36

Whether you're on the road or at home and jonesing for a different kind of car talk show, give In Wheel Time a try. Honest new car reviews, fun, informative interviews with real car people, weekly automotive news features like Jeff's Car Culture and Mike's Driving Destinations all on In Wheel Time. Check us out on Sirius XM, podcasts, iheart Radio or while you're shopping on Amazon through Amazon Music. Inwheeltimecom has a list and we know you love lists. In Wheel Time invites you to join us 10 to noon Central Time every Saturday for our live show about all things automotive, and we thank you for being with us today. Time now for Jeff's Car Culture Car tech from the space industry. You bet.

Speaker 4 19:17

So here we go. When NASA engineers were busy figuring out how to land humans on the moon and bring them back safely, they probably weren't thinking about your local daily commute. Yet many technologies developed for space exploration have found their way into modern vehicles, making our cars safer, more efficient and surprisingly sophisticated, mike. The first one memory foam seats. Nasa developed memory foam seats in the 60s to improve crash protection for airline pilots and passengers. The material's ability to conform to the body shape while distributing weight evenly made it perfect for the space applications. Today's car seats use the same technology to provide comfort during long drives and reduce pressure points that can cause fatigue. How about that? The next one, mike, is anti-lock braking systems. I didn't know this. The concept behind the ABS came from aerospace anti-skid systems designed to prevent aircraft wheels from locking up during landing. Space shuttles needed similar technology for their runway touchdowns, where precise braking meant the difference between a successful landing or disaster. Modern cars use the same principle for rapid, rapid brake pressure modulation to maintain steering control during emergency stops. Now you see that in that picture. That's the motorcycle hand, a grip or hand brake. Same principle, same principle. So the next one, mike, is a head-up display which I use in my car all the time. Fighter jet spacecraft pioneers brought this display technology to keep critical information in pilots' line of sight without forcing them to look down at their instruments. Nasa refined this technology for space missions, where astronauts needed to have constant access to vital data while maintaining visual contact with their surroundings. Modern luxury cars project speed navigation and warning information onto the windshield, allowing drivers to stay focused on the road. That's exactly what mine looks like right there. That's perfect.

Speaker 4 21:11

The next one, mike, is advanced composite materials. Space programs needed for lightweight yet incredibly strong materials led to the breakthroughs in carbon fiber and other composite technologies. These materials had to withstand the extreme conditions of space travel while keeping space weight to a minimum. Today's high performance cars use the same composites in the body panels, chassis components and interior trim that they use in aerospace. The materials provide superior strength-to-weight ratios compared to traditional steel, so that's very important. That's very cool.

Speaker 4 21:46

Next one, michael fuel injection systems. Rocket engines pioneered precise fuel injection technology to achieve optimal combustion efficiency and power output. Nasa's on throttle control of the fuel metering systems for space engines is influenced by automotive fuel technology and development. Modern cars can use electronic fuel injection systems that trace their precision and efficiency back to rocket engine technology. I want to put that in a car and just tub that out. There you go, improved tire technology. We all know this. Nasa's Lunar Rover program required tires that could handle the moon safety, information safety over rocky roads or airless environment without failing. Research of tire compounds, tread patterns and construction techniques influenced the earthbound tire development.

Speaker 1 22:38

So there you go. I wonder if they're still inflated up there on the moon. No, they're wire.

Speaker 4 22:42

They're like a mesh. They're like a wire mesh.

Speaker 1 22:44

From 1969?

Speaker 4 22:46

Yeah, there's no air. It's a wire mesh. Yeah, it's like a chain mail. Yeah, that's what the tires made out of them.

Speaker 3 22:51

Really it's kind of like what you wear on Saturday night.

Speaker 1 22:53

Yeah, I've got the pair of underwear to match it right now.

Speaker 4 22:57

The chap ones, the chap ones, chainmail chaps, mm-hmm. Yeah, okay, but also battery-operated drills I'm trying to vision that in my mind.

Speaker 3 23:08

Please don't.

Speaker 1 23:09

I'm going to wear them next week.

Speaker 4 23:11

Battery-operated drills. What technician doesn't have that in there? You know stuff like that, so very cool.

Speaker 1 23:16

That is very cool. That's a great story. Thank you sir.

Speaker 4 23:19

All right.

Speaker 1 23:20

Let us do driving destinations, and today it's going to be Route 66 in Texas.

Speaker 3 23:27

Now, almost everybody has heard, if you drive cars or anything, you know what Route 66 is.

Speaker 1 23:32

Well, it doesn't exist anymore. Well, it doesn't exist anymore.

Speaker 3 23:34

Well it exists in pieces, but you know it went from Chicago out to California. It's how people got across the country for years and it comes through Texas as well as several other states. Now I will admit up front it's only 178 miles of it's in Texas but there's a lot of stuff.

Speaker 3 23:51

No, that's all. That's all there ever was, I see. So the first thing you're going to know everybody's kind of heard of the Cadillac Ranch near Amarillo. It's been there. It's one of the Route 66 most iconic stops. It was created in 1974 by a group of artists. It features 10 vintage Cadillacs buried nose first into the ground. Travelers are encouraged to bring their own spray cans to leave their marks, making an ever-changing canvas, a cobbler. So the attraction symbolizes freedom, creativity and the road trip spirit. Now the next stop is going to be the Dew Drop Inn in Shamrock, texas.

Speaker 3 24:28

Now this is a shining example of art deco architecture along Route 66. This was built in 1936. The building originally housed a cafe and a gas station. It's been restored to its former glory and it now serves as a visitor center and museum. It's got bold neon signage and unique design that made it a model for Ramone's House of Body Art in Pixar's Cars movie. Now today it represents both history and the modern nostalgia of the Mother Road. Now up in Adrian, texas, it's the midpoint of Route 66. Now it proudly marks the midpoint exactly 1,139 miles from both Chicago and Los Angeles. The Midpoint Cafe celebrates this designation, serving classic American comfort food, including the famous ugly crust pie. Now travelers stop here for photos with the midpoint sign and to experience the true heart of the Mother Road. Moving on to Vega, you're going to find the historic Magnolia gas station that's been restored in.

Speaker 1 25:25

Vega, Texas. I owned a Vega one time, actually two of them, we'll see.

Speaker 3 25:27

You could have gone here and been right at home, there's my.

Speaker 3 25:30

Vega. In Vega that was built in the 1920s. The small station provided fuel and service for countless road travelers. Today it's been rebuilt and it stands as a historical landmark and photo opportunity, representing a small-town charm that defines Texas stretch of Route 66. Moving on to Amarillo Amarillo they have a lot of neon and motor courts there and it preserves Route 66 classic roadside culture with those vintage motor courts and neon signs and diners along the historic 6th Street District. Now you can walk this stretch and so it feels like you're stepping back in the golden era of American road trips, with retro motels, antique shops and quirky eateries along the route. Now this is to welcome travelers just like they did years ago. So if you want to, there's a few more stops, but that's a quick look at Route 66 through the state of.

Speaker 4 26:24

Texas. I was at the Cadillac Ranch about 17 years ago because of Kylie, when she was born, I went there. I was on a business trip and we went to Walmart, got shaker cans of paint. We went out there. You got a long walk from the road. It's probably to the front of this property here at Hemi High. You had to walk out to the display. There's a path and you jump up on them. You start painting them. Now it's a little different. They've got a building where you can go, use the restroom like a little gift shop stuff just down the road, but it's not there on property. But yeah, I've been there. It's pretty neat, you know if you don't know what to expect, but they're just static Cadillacs in the ground. Why not? Why not Tell about each one of them?

Speaker 1 27:07

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Speaker 1 27:28

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Speaker 1 28:14

The award-winning In-Wheel Time Car Talk Show now reaches 5.3 million folks each year. Check us out on inwheeltimecom, the Odyssey Radio app, youtube, facebook and just about every other entertainment source out there, including our live broadcast every Saturday 10 to noon Central Time. The In Wheel Time Car Talk Show has informative automotive guest interviews, new car reviews, along with popular features, including Jeff's car culture, the latest new cars, cruise ins and racing dates. It's InWheelTimecom. Join us. That's it for this podcast episode of the In Wheel Time Car Show. I'm Don Armstrong, inviting you to join us for our live show every Saturday morning on Facebook, youtube, twitch and our InWheelTimecom website. Podcasts are available on Apple Podcasts, spotify, stitcher, iheart Podcast, podcast, addict, tunein, pandora and Amazon Music. Keep listening and we'll see you soon.