#77 David Wilkinson

In this episode, we sit down with Head Football Coach and Athletic Coordinator Coach David Wilkinson of McCollum High School in San Antonio, Texas.  He brings over 24 years of experience and a proven track record of building successful programs across Texas—including a historic state championship run at Boerne High School.

Coach Wilkinson shares how he’s transforming McCollum by shifting mindset—from a victim mentality to one built on gratitude, accountability, and ownership. He breaks down the importance of daily habits, intentional culture, and why leadership is developed through influence—not titles.

We also dive into:

•  Building trust through positive reinforcement and relationships
•  Creating alignment across an entire athletic department 
•  Developing leaders by expanding voice within the team
•  The power of community and standards that don’t bend 

Plus, a powerful personal story on balancing coaching with family, and how the coaching community stepped up in a meaningful way.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Coaches and athletic directors, it's Corbin Smith with MTTS Sports Group. Let me ask you a quick question. What are the biggest challenges that you face when it comes to leadership development and culture sustainability? At MTTS Sports Group, we have created a system through leadership speaking and training, staff alignment seminars, as well as culture seminars that address those issues. We also offer a six-hour fully immersive leadership stress test for your teams called the Tour Crucible. If you are interested at all, go to www.mttssportsgroup.com and let us know how we can help. Enjoy the podcast. Let me go ahead and um introduce you so we can we can get going on this and because we could talk about that all day long. But um David Todd Wilkinson, head football coach at McCollum High School in San Antonio, Texas. And um you're also the athletic director, which is kind of cool. And one of the reasons I'm glad you're on, because um I I I think I think a lot of coaches can get a lot of insight from your AD mind, not just your football mind. But welcome. Thanks. Thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, no, we were just uh we were just talking about all of our ties. Um coach grew up in that Dallas area and and um knows a lot of people that that were playing at Missouri, Corby Jones, Steve Erickson, Curtis Jones Sr., the whole Jones family. Um and we'll you know we'll there's definitely some people on here watching that that you know played in Missouri or had those ties and just a small world. Coaching world is a small, small world, isn't it? Yes, sir. Yeah, for sure. So you um just a little background from what I what I could you know gather um and you correct what you want, but that you just finished your first season as a head football coach in AD at McCollum, right? Yes, sir. Yeah, yeah. So you guys went five and five, and and for people that don't know um just from my research, the last winning season, true winning season at McCollum High School was in 2011. And you've had sounds about right.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yeah, it's it's um it's it's traditionally not known as a football, you know, powerhouse or anything. Um San Antonio is very ethnically diverse and um kind of split up in little pockets, and it it's on the south side, which is which is the old side of town, the prideful side of town. But you get up against you know, like the hill country area, um, that's where that's where most of your better athletes are, and and you know, you get put in district with them, and it's it's it's tough, you know, it's tough. And so they've done that for decades, and so you know, the success just hasn't hasn't been here quite as much.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

So I recruited when I was coaching in Missouri, I had from San Antonio all the way up to Grave Vine, and then I had the Dallas Fort, or I had the Fort Worth area of the DFW area and Arlington and all that. Um, so I'm pretty familiar with with what you're talking about, um, you know, with the hill country and the pockets and stuff like that. So you guys went five and five, um, which to me, and I'm sure to you, being in your first year, I mean, that that's a success. And I know we don't necessarily measure successes by wins, but coming into a situation where they've won five games in three seasons since that 2011 season, and this was the third time. What do you what do you think when you got there, what what was the most important thing that you wanted to do in order to get kids truly buy in?

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Well, the the thing that, you know, to me, there was always kind of this mentality that it it was it was almost like they were always trying to prove something, like kind of kind of, you know, everybody's against us all the time. You know, we've got to fight uphill, we've got to dig out of this hole. Um, you know, it's kind of it was it was it was close to a victim mentality. And even though our community is a strong, strong community. Like, I mean, that we, you know, it's it's two parent households, it's blue-collar, it's you know, parents own small businesses, they're very, very hardworking. A lot of them are first or second generation Americans, you know, that come over from Mexico, but but they are hardworking, just great people. But there's this mentality that they've that they're supposed to be kept down, kind of. And that's just kind of this this feeling that I had looking, you know, as like in that in at the fishbowl from looking on the outside. And so when I came in, I wanted these kids to see basically everything they needed to be grateful for. And in my my approach was, guys, you know, nothing good is gonna happen unless you have a grateful heart. You need to look around and see what you have. Whenever we have an event, it's a packed house. We have one of the nicest stadiums in San Antonio. Our facilities are amazing. Like anything we want, the community gives for us. Like you are the pride of the community, and and you need to be grateful for that. You know, like nothing's ever gonna come. You're you're there's always going to be something that you want to be more thankful for, but you should be thankful for the things that you have. And so that that was that was my message in the interview. That was my message when I first met the team. That was my message when I first met the community. That was the message when I first met the teachers. I was like, we've got to let these kids know how good they do have it, and that there is no excuse, and that we should be grateful for everything that we have.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah. So what are some what are some of the things that you did when you first got there that, you know, action items, whatever you want to call it, when you first got there, that really, you know, when you look back that that says, I'm glad we did that, because kids that were kind of on the fence or kids that had that victim mentality that didn't realize how good they had it, what what were some of the things that you guys did, you and your staff did when you first got there to really sell it for a lack of better terms or well, I mean, I did I just I think it was it was it was intentional, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

When I came in, I was like, guys, you know, I hear a lot of yelling, I hear an occasional cuss word, you know. It wasn't not bad, but you know, I I was just like, you know, we need to we need to elevate the praise. We need to praise loudly, you know, we need to praise loudly, and if we do need to criticize, we need to kind of do that softly. You know, like we need that needs to be a one-on-one conversation because it, you know, it it just it just felt like you know, these kids were used to getting yelled at. They were used to, and it it didn't, it didn't need to be like that. And so I just wanted the positive, you know, to be to be highlighted. And so anything we did, we celebrated the positive. Uh, one thing that that you know we do that we do every day now, it's it's just what we do. It's a habit, is I always thank the kids for for being there and for their effort, because they don't have to be, you know, like I'm like, I mean, you guys just worked your butts off for for the last 55 minutes straight, you worked your butts off. I was like, but in 10 minutes, you're gonna get in the shower and you're gonna feel amazing, and you're gonna feel like at like the best you can have it. So, guys, thank you for showing up and for doing that. And I love you guys. And then they go around and they we thank the kids for being there and they thank the coaches for pouring into them. And we all fist bump. And it's just, I mean, now it's just we don't even think about it. We just do it, and that's the way every practice ends, every workout ends, is we all thank each other for being there and thanking for you know them them doing the hard work and us pouring into them. And then and they're grateful to our coaches. And now we just have this, you know, relationship between our staff and our kids where it's just a lot more trust, you know, it's a lot more trust, and the kids want to be there and they and they they want to show up and they wanna they want to you know get better.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Good. I, you know, I uh interviewed a lot of coaches and had a lot of guests on here um that have talked about two things you just mentioned, and that's love and gratitude. And I think you're right. I think back when you and I were growing up, and even though I'm a little bit older than you, I mean it's the same era, right? Um, you know, it it was understood that if you played football, you were gonna go out and you were gonna get yelled at. But you that that was just kind of, I don't want to say it was a standard, but it was expectation. And and that's just what happened. And the majority of the time as a player, when you walked off that field, you knew that your coach still loved you. It was almost like this deranged type of mentality where if coach doesn't yell at me today, then he doesn't care about me. Yeah, right. And I mean, I remember my head high school coach, still live, 80 years old, named Steve Grady, legendary coach in California, you know, five foot seven, ex uh tailback, backed up OJ Simpson at USC. He'd run, you know, four miles a day and smoke two packs of cigarettes a day.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

And every single day he was he was just chomping at the bit to get at me. And, you know, even though it got annoying at times, I appreciated it, but times have changed. Parents have changed, parenting has changed. With the influx of social media and everything else, kids need to feel like they're loved and and they need to have gratitude. And that's where that trust comes in, don't you think?

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Absolutely. I mean, like, and and don't get me wrong, there's still yelling that goes on. There's still, you know, there's still, but they, but they again, they they they know where it's coming from. I guess we just kind of have this understanding, you know, a little bit different. To now, now I think you have to set that relationship up a little bit more on the front end, you know, to be able to to to coach football hard, you know, the way you do. But you know, yeah, our kids, you know, I mean, they they get it. You know, they they they they don't cower down to the yelling, they they respond, they're yes sir kids, you know, and and you know, and you know, for that I mean I've had a few parent issues, you know, not even issues, but you know, a few parent conversations and things like that where they they question this and that. But for the most part, we don't have any because they know they know where we're coming from, they know the place we're coming from, and and it's it's just seems to be fine.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah, and I I think with that mentality of you know, make sure they know that you love them, make sure that they know that you're invested with them, being transparent, being thankful for them being there. When you do yell as a coach, they take it completely different. Sure. They don't take it as coach doesn't like me. Um and so that's the setup. Let me let me ask you this because uh talking about development, talking about leadership, um, that kind of stuff, I I want to ask you about the crossover from being a head coach to an athletic director. Um because you're not only in charge of all the kids that that are playing the sport of football, but you're also the the leader of the entire athletic department um at McCollum. So what what do you feel like is most important that you guys are doing in regards to all of your student athletes and how you're developing their character, um, their leadership, their faith, if if if they're into that, um to understand in a in a day and age where everybody feels entitled where and follows our followers, where we need more leaders and more strong people of character in our society.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Well, I I think one thing that we're you know, and again, we're we're in the early stages of this because I've it it's it's just been a year since I've got since I've gotten here. I hit the I hit the anniversary date just a couple weeks ago. Um, but you know, we had to hire a new basketball coach, and so you know, to me that that's good because you come in together, you know, and it's it's my hire, and it's kind of easy, you know, to go with that. And um, but you know, everybody else was existing. But the the good thing is is that everybody here seems to be a team player, you know, like everybody, uh our soccer coach will drive buses for us when we get in a pinch, you know, for football, you know, things like that. My defensive coordinator is driving the baseball team today, you know, to their game, you know, just things like that. Everybody's always willing to pitch in and help out. But I think the the message to everybody has been consistent. First of all, the first message is that we are gonna share athletes. You know, football players are gonna play basketball, basket, you know, they're gonna play baseball. Everybody's gonna run track. You know, I mean, everybody can come out to a track meet on Thursday afternoon or whatever, even if they're playing baseball on a Friday or a Tuesday. You know, we're gonna share athletes, and our best athletes are gonna play everything. And, you know, it's just because they they need to be there for the McCollum Cowboys. Nobody needs to be there for themselves. And so that that message has been very well received. Um, in the summers, um, you know, when we do workouts and things like that, we do sports-specific stuff, but we all end up in the weight room together and we all and and it makes it a little bit more chaotic. It would be better if I just had the football players in there from an efficiency standpoint. But in the summer, you can, you know, you got a little bit longer. We make we get the basketball team in there with us, the baseball kids come in there with us, and we all live together because I just I just want everybody, you know, working with one another. Um, you know, and that way, the that way, you know, the relationships are are good, you know, cross sport, things like that. We uh we influence going to we we you know have rewards for kids going to other sports games, you know, if they're not playing, you know, we we play at home tonight. If you go, you know, this you get a free whatever, you know. I mean, we we try to incentivize it as much as we can to be at each other's competitions. And like I said, our community shows up to everything. I mean, everything is always full, everything's always busy. So, so that's it, that's a good thing. But we just we just try to have this mentality that, you know, we're we're there for each other and that we're gonna share. And that, you know, coaches, as far as like expectations for the coaches, I mean, you know, we you're gonna you're in season, you're gonna lift two times a week. Out of season, you're gonna lift a minimum of three. Um, you are gonna have some sort of leadership program uh installed in your offseason. Um, you know, there's just certain, certain, you know, baseline things, but as far as like, you know, X's and O's, or, you know, I I leave the expertise to those coaches, you know, I'll fully support you. Um, you know, and then one thing I do say is but everything you say to your kids, everything has got to be defendable. If a parent comes to me and says this, you know, we've got to be able to defend it. And so, you know, choose your words carefully, you know, and I tell it to I tell to the coaches, I tell it to the kids, your words can do one of two things. They can speak life into somebody, or they can speak death into somebody. You know, you can be building somebody up, or you can be tearing them down because words do matter. And so, you know, it's just just frame your frame your coaching, frame your conversations, frame your things with those things in mind. And, you know, we haven't had many issues.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Yeah, you know, I and there's so many follow-ups, and I'll try and get to them piece by piece, but I want to ask you about that because as head football coaches, you know, building a culture, building a football culture is one thing, right? We we implement standards we for our players, for our coaches, um, we have our expectations as well. We do our leadership stuff, we do our staff development stuff. Um, but I always I and it's it's why I created the MTTS sports group, and and I'll tell you more about this later, but um, it's to build systems that I didn't have access to when I was a head coach. And regardless of how many mentors I had, I I had you know problems every day. You find we find solutions, right? But the thing that I didn't necessarily have was a concrete system to implement those solutions in. So, with that said, um, one of the big things I'm working on or with athletic directors to implement a system for standards, for culture as an athletic department as a whole. Um, being a head football coach, too. I mean, your knowledge in that area is probably greater than most. Um, so it is that something you do with your head coaches from all sports? Do you meet with them and say, hey, these are the standards of the McCollum athletic department based off of our own sports, but also our our school and our district.

unknown 16:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

So all the head coaches are on the same page, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah, so so I mean, from a district level, we we, I mean, our our superintendent was up for superintendent of the year for the whole state of Texas. And and we're a pretty small school district. And I'm so like he he is a exceptional, I mean, he's an old basketball coach. Um, you know, and and and so so he loves sports and he understands the importance of sports. Um, we do have McCollum has always had this standard. Um, you know, like if you put on a McCullum jersey, if you're if you're representing McCollum at any point, there's no earrings. If you do have a tattoo, it has to be covered. Uh, you don't wear slides on the bus to games. You know, just just, you know, I mean, I I don't feel like they're outrageous rules. They're just they're just standards, you know, and our kids know them and and they adhere to them. And so that I mean that's across the board on everything. As far as coaches, um, you know, we have we have a monthly meeting that that we get together and just kind of fill each other in, make sure we're on the same page. But everybody knows, you know, what what we're about and what we're supposed to be. And that came long, long before I got here. I mean, it's just the the way this place has always conducted itself. And um, so, you know, I mean, it's it's those things are reiterated, those things are brought up. Um, you know, if if a coach, you know, doesn't meet the standard or the criteria, then our our first, our, our, our first way to handle it is is is to help the coach, is to correct it. Good. Explain what, you know, I mean, we're not looking to get rid of anybody, we're looking to make everybody better, you know, and uh that's one thing that's that's great about this place is you know, I I've I make 11, so there's 10 on our football staff. Seven of the ten played in either played either at McCollum or at Harlandale High School, which is the other high school in our district.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

And so it's all hometown. Everybody comes back, they know what it is, you know, they know they know how the community is. And so the standard just kind of sets itself. You just got to keep it. You got to keep the standard.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah. And that, but that's that's also a hard hard thing to do in today's, like you said. I mean, you get parents, you know, social media, um, a lot of outside noise, and it's it's hard to maintain that. So kudos to your district and and to both schools in your district to to maintain that. And and it don't you think it definitely helps to have, like you said, seven of the ten um assistants are from that area, went to one of the two high schools, and they you know, it's almost like that old school mentality where they've been around and it's kind of recycled itself to where and like you said, you're in an area that is a blue-collar, hardworking, yes, sir, no, sir, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. Um, community shows up. That's rare, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah, I mean, yeah, and that's yeah, that's what was so appealing to the job. I didn't care, you know, that they didn't have a track record of winning. You know, I looked and I mean, first of all, I saw the facilities and I saw the community commitment that they were building. Like our stadium's two years old and it's state of the art. You know, our locker rooms are top-notch. Um, they built a whole new basketball arena, they built a tennis center, they built a softball and baseball, you know, complex with turf fields and things. And so I saw that the community was committed because they're passing bonds to do this. Like people are willing to pay more taxes so our kids have better things, you know. And so I just saw that. And then like, you know, like the Harland El McCullum game, it's it's it's Cowboys versus Indians. We call it the Frontier Bowl. It's it's the biggest thing going in the city, you know. And so you, you know, you you you have you have two relatively small schools, you know, we're smaller 5A schools, you know, our our our high schools are about you know, 1,500 kids or so. Um, but but like you'll you'll have 13, 14,000 people at our football game whenever we play each other. And so like I just I knew there was a commitment, I knew it was important here, and now it's like, you know, you can build off that. Like, you know, we're I mean, yeah, you're gonna be out athleted and in some games and things like that, but but it that if you're building a program, you need commitment, you know. And so I knew I knew the community was going to be committed. So I was like, you know, this could this could be a great place. And so that was kind of the the thing that attracted me to to try to get this position whenever it came open.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

You um you've been a lot of places. You've been the head coach of Baytown Lee and Athletic Director, um, but you've also been coordinator and assistants at a lot of different places in the state. Um, have you experienced, and and I know, I mean, everybody knows about Texas high school football, right? And and how involved, you know, the communities are, but have you ever experienced such strong, um, such a strong feel from the community as you do, you know, at McCollum?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Well, yeah, I mean, the place I came from, uh, it, you know, that's up in the hill country, just north of San Antonio. Um, and and you know, we we played in the state championship a few years ago and been to the semis a couple times in the last few years and uh you know had a had a really good run there that that that that's a super super tight community I mean like it it's it's it's you know I'm almost you know Hollywood esque you know the way it's it's depicted and I mean you know that the the and that to me like the the big fight there was and the kids were great but the the fight was that it was like guys this is this is not the pinnacle of your life even though it seems like it is right now and everybody loves you and everybody revolves around you you're gonna go do great things like you know because the kids are just you know they would be like I can't believe it's over you know whenever we would finally lose you know in week 15 or 16 or whatever it was and you're just you know so I mean to me that was kind of the the the role as the coach then like because we were gonna win we were going to win like crazy and we were gonna score points we were going to do that but it was you know hey we are building you to be a better man you know later in life and then when I coached in Houston uh coached at this huge high school uh Dickinson high school you know a lot of SEC kids a lot of pro athletes you know come out of there you know kid this school is like 4200 kids and so you're just picking from the best and um that was a I mean it that was like that's like coaching in college and you know I mean it's it's it's it's it's over 10,000 fans every game you know I mean it's it's awesome like it's and you you're playing big time football where you know half the kids on the field are D1 or D2 and you know so but the community was super tight there too. So you know my last few stops have been in great great places you know kind of worked my career to get to those places but uh yeah I mean it's it's every community's different but they all they ever they all they all love their team and they all you know they all they all love their kids.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Why do you think the state of Texas when it comes to that type of a scenario what because I've seen track meets. I've been to track meets in Texas and it's there's thousands and thousands of people right um I've been to wrestling matches I've been to basketball games and it it's like you just look around you're like my gosh like everybody is like the thing to do what and and it's the only state I've ever been to recruiting coaching playing whatever that has that kind of buy-in um you know for their high school athletes what what do you think makes the state different I mean the education is phenomenal in the state as well so it's kind of the same thing is it the whole system just in general well you know so we do we have great we have great public schools here and and I think we have great public schools because you know the emphasis is on I think athletics helps.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

I mean I think our extracurricular activities help you know because kids want to go to certain schools you know because of their certain programs. You know if a kid is great in marching band they they they want to go to school and and be good in the marching band. And you know I think one there's a lot of big there's a lot of things. First of all we have an athletic period or we have a you know band period for our kids. And so that draws the kids to going to school that get that gets them in school you know yes they go to math and English and all that and and that's the most important but what gets them to school is is their extracurricular interest. And so you know for a good chunk of their day they get to they get to do what their passion is and what their interests. So we have that that set alone athletic period you know football or baseball or whatever it is that they get to go to you know for an hour a day. I don't know how it got to be so great but I think one of the things that keeps us great is that our athletics is governed by our coaches and and nobody messes with it. No school administrators we have the strongest athlete you know we have the Texas High School Coaches Association is you know 18,000 people strong and we govern ourselves and the more experienced coaches that know what work set out the rules and set out the guidelines and we vote for those guys and you know it's a it's an honor to be a part of that system. And so they know what works they know what keeps everybody competitive they know what is fair um you know and so and they're always evolving and they're always getting better and better. And so you know we have a say in that through elections and things like that. And we elect the guys that and and and and girls that know what works and so that keeps us strong and just I mean even our legislators don't mess with it because they know it works and they know it's good and and that's what keeps us competitive. And so when you put a good product on the field and and you know you keep your kids and your kids or your hometown kids that grow up the community wants to watch them and it just keeps it strong and and it just it just continues and continues to have success.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

So let me just clarify this because most states with their interscholastic association regardless of what state it is most states the board members the people that run the interscholastic organization or association are usually individuals that have been prior principals, prior athletic directors, even coaches, but are no longer active within the education the high school athletic setting um and you're telling me in the state of Texas all your interscholastic association is really governed by active members of your education system and coaching system and coaching so the Texas High School Coaches Association is is it's the biggest of its kind in the world.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Okay and our president that the president of the Texas High School Coaches Association for the last I've been in it 25 years for the last 25 years has been an active head football coach in Texas doing that. Everybody that sits on the board is an active coach whether they're volleyball or whatever they get elected by their region they get you know and and I mean it's it's a lot of work on them you know but but they do it because they know that's what keeps it great. Now there are two former uh retired coaches that run that are are that are the heads the directors of the association but they don't have a voting say they don't have anything all they all they do is is is help facilitate for the for the coaches that run it you know from the from the top level down. So like I was very fortunate that at Dickinson my head coach was the was the president of the Texas High School Coaches Association. And so like I got to be mentored by that guy who's seen it all done it all you know whatever. And so I mean you know he's still my biggest mentor today in the business. And so yeah I mean it's it's it's it's active coaches.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I mean that's what it is it's incredible. That's that that is the epitome of quote unquote we always hear a player led team the most successful teams are the ones that are truly player led and that that epitomizes that phrase yeah to me absolutely because it's I mean it's a it's a coaches led organization and um I had no idea I did not know that that is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah and I I don't know how other states can do it they won't but um good for you guys good for the city and I don't know I don't know when that started or but but we we've kept true to the process and that I to me that's that's the ingredient for success.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

It's it's the right way to do it. It's really the only way to do it because you know because coaches know the inner workings not only of their sports but just of the of the um landscape and how it changes and so in order to keep it consistent yeah that's good um I I know there's a again a lot of states and I'm kind of jumping outside of um you guys individually but um what kind of do two things do you guys have open enrollment in the state of Texas and do you see much transferring within schools? Because I know for for our country and high school sports that's that's a big issue.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Yeah so um there there are some a district can choose to be open enrollment um and so yes um there are open enrollment districts some aren't some are some some are so packed and so exclusive that they hey we're just taking our area you know I'm in a district that is open enrollment um because quite frankly you get paid by the kid you know that that's how you get your state money is you know the more enrollment you have the more money you have and and you know the more funding you have and so that that that's the that's the enticement there. As far as transferring high school to high school and things like that it happens. I mean it does you know the the better programs um get get the better players sometimes but there is a system of regulation in place we have this thing called the PAPF. It's governed by our our um uh coaches association by our by our rules and basically it's it's it's it's the previous athletic participation form. So if you've been in a school from eighth grade on and you transfer schools you have to prove residency you have to prove that you didn't leave for academic purposes or I'm sorry athletic purposes you have to prove that you were in good standing with your former program your your your previous coach has to sign off that he doesn't think you're leaving for athletic purposes you know and then like it gets it it's not just black and white you know there's gray area in there because if a kid kid wants to leave you know or if a kid wants to and they my deal is if if they actually pick up and move you know and they and they want to go well then you know I don't want to hurt the kid and keep and things like that. But you know they're not gonna live in my attendance zone and just go hop to another school. But you know but then I also say you know like if I'm running a good program and I'm treating the kids right and they they know that they're gonna be treated well they know they're gonna be treated fair they know we're gonna you know then you're not gonna have many leave. Now are you going to have some leave? Yeah I mean a lot of times you know a kid will leave it's it's it's it you know like a like a split home you know where they could they could go to this school or they could go to this school and they'll choose to go to the other school because they're kind of sold a bill of goods you know that doesn't always come true. I've seen it a lot kids will leave your school they'll go to the other one and then you know by next semester they're back because I mean you know now that there's some bigger schools in Houston uh you know a lot more recruiting goes on to to the bigger schools and things like that because I mean you're talking about top tier kids and they want to be in top tier programs and you know things like that. And so I mean in Texas you see the same you see the same schools going to the state championship especially in 6A and 5A you see the same schools all the time because you know they're they're the recruiting goes on and the kids and I don't even know if the if the coaches are recruiting or if the kids just gravitate to that program because they've been so successful. You know and but but there is there is a process of checks and balances that you got to go through there's sets of parameters. We do try to police it pretty well um and you know I've seen kids get rejected you know and have to sit a year and things like that but but ultimately if a kid wants to go to another program um you know they can do it. Yeah um from a development standpoint when you got in there what what was one goal that you really wanted to accomplish your first season um in regards to leadership development and I ask this question a lot because I think a lot of a lot of coaches that I've talked to have more questions than answers on it right um it's most coaches can identify the leaders right not the captains but can identify the kids regardless of age regardless of grade who their leaders are or are going to be in the future that's not an issue what seems to be the biggest um where guys have the biggest hiccup is really the development of those leaders for you know two years three years four years one year um what what do you guys what was your one goal when you came in in regards to leadership and in the development of all your athletes all your football players um from a leadership standpoint yeah I mean I I I don't know if I had a specific goal um but I did like like we talked about earlier I want I want our team to be player led because that that's you're gonna you're gonna get your best outcome whenever the the players have accountability and ownership over that and so you know the first thing and this is this is just jumping out to me right now is that you know kids kids are are born leaders you you can you can teach it you can you know bring it out of of people but kids are going to gravitate to certain kids now that goes both ways there's two two two sides of that coin you know I'm sp thinking of a specific freshman that I have right now he is no doubt the leader of that of that green they they do whatever he says they gravitate to him they all look at him unfortunately this kid he's always in trouble he's always doing bad he's always stirring up crap you know it just it just followed him around and around and around so like I called him in early and I was like here's the deal you're the leader of the team there is no doubt about it. Now are you gonna lead the way that that I want you to because you're a McCollum cowboy and you want to buy in you're gonna lead us to good or are you going to continue the way you're going you know I'm not gonna you know I'm I'm not asking you to I'm not gonna say you behave or get out of here or any of that stuff. I'm just saying your leadership matters are you going to bring this place down or are you going to bring this place up? Because if you bring this place down and you swim against the stream you're gonna be exhausted. You're gonna drown and you and you won't make it. And I was like and I'm gonna tell you this right now you know like whether you're here or not McCullum will play football. Whether I'm here or not McCullum will play football. So don't think just because you're the leader now that that that you're bigger than the program. So you've got to choose how you want to lead because if if you're leading in the wrong way you you won't you won't make it here in four years. I can just tell you that right now you know you'll you'll you you'll you'll sink and so you know so like the good kids that want to lead you want to bring it out in them. You know like hey man you know you have a leadership program you know I mean like I already know we'll have we'll have we'll we'll have an election we'll fo we'll vote our four captains next year. You know that the the kids will get a say the coaches get a double say even though I don't tell the kids that but you know and then ultimately it's gonna be the four guys that I think how however the election goes but but everybody thinks it's it's it's 100% democratic process. But we know who those four are going to be all right so the deal is is like we know those four are going to are are are going to raise everybody's level now where are we raising the level from we want everybody to hear the same thing. You know we we teach them how to leave you know we have an 18 week leadership program uh in our offseason we break it down into three six week segments you know we test at the end of those segments as far as like weights and things and then we have six leadership program six leadership talks within those 18 weeks um how we do it is we we there there's a program down here um that that we bought it's it's a leadership program that it it's videos and things like that and so we watch a video uh one day a week it's about five minutes and then a coach takes that topic the coach speaks on you know that topic whatever like this week it's hard work is the is the theme and so we had a kid we had a we watched the video on Monday we had a coach speak um today and then a kid will will will speak on the topic he met with the coach watched the video before and then he gives his take on on on hard work and so by the time you do it you have 18 kids that speak on a leadership you know process they're usually seniors but they don't have to be but it's kids that the coaches pick that hey I see him in a leadership role. And so now you you instead of four leaders you have 18 leaders all right on your team. Those 18 leaders all have little pockets and circles of friends that they're influencing and so it it kind of rises everybody up you know it's the the Urban Meyer above the line you know idea that we want to bring everybody up above that line and we just do that by casting a wider net of leadership. So they're not always hearing from me all the time they're in those 18 weeks they're hearing from every single coach you know they're hearing you know they're hearing from 18 different kids and so your your leadership just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and then the kids gravitate and and you know now we know kind of the way we do things and it's just it's just it's our brand.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

That's good. Um it's funny because that's you know leadership's always a sticky subject in my opinion and all these leadership training or speaking or culture you know seminars that I'm doing it's when we talk about leadership I always tell people being a leader isn't fun. Like everybody thinks it it's about titles um it's not fun. And when when you are a leader like the kid you were just talking about specifically like the first thing you have to do is recognize it if so whether someone telling you or you just know it, you have to recognize it and then you have to embrace it you have to understand it's not fun. I mean people say it's a responsibility it's absolutely a responsibility but again you have to embrace it and understand that there's a lot of times where people aren't gonna like what you have to say or even like you. But the fact is even when they don't you still have an impact on the way that they do things and it starts I have a leadership pyramid that I share with everybody too and it's it's it's it's um five stories and the foundation is you have to self-lead the second um after you you're a you have to do that at all time right self-leadership. And then the next uh tier is peer leadership where you just pull one person a sign and you kind of mentor them. And then the next area is group leadership so like a position coach, right? And then area leadership would be like your coordinator and then organization leader would be the ultimate leader the buck stops with that person, the head coach with the athletic director and um I mean it's it's funny because you you talk about your coaches and it's so important that everybody speak the same language in your program to truly be successful right absolutely um I want to end it and and I could keep going coach I I I I can but I try to keep these under 45 minutes. But yeah I want to end with this because I just doing my research I I caught something that really kind of hit my heart um because I've been in that situation and even though I had the blessing of my family and my children I have three grown boys um it still hit me hard and when I became a head coach I had I had a a son my oldest that that had just graduated went on to Weber State to play but my middle son was going to be a junior and he was starting a linebacker for a 6A school in Arizona and then my youngest son was going to be in eighth grade and so and I wasn't I didn't want him to I didn't want either one of them to come to school where I was coaching. The school that they went to their uncle was the head coach and it was one of the best in Arizona um so you you took this head job and and your son was was he a is he a senior this year?

SPEAKER_00 42:11

He's a senior yes yeah and yeah he was playing football right yeah so I I have two I have two boys um one of them is a freshman at Texas AM uh he he played he played for me all four years and then his little brother Bobby who is a senior now he played for me for three years um and then yeah his senior year uh I I took this job and we're in the same district we play each other um you know and uh he he he I gave him the option I said hey man yeah of course I would love for you to come play me you're our starting corner you know obviously you start Bernie you're you you're you're gonna be our starting corner at at uh McCollum um you know I'd let I but I get it if you know you make the decision whatever you want to do and he I mean he was just like dad I'm I'm staying Ernie like you know he's like you know it's it's fine and uh you know all his friends were there and you know I mean it's just that's who he grew up with and yeah you know you he had always been a greyhound and and so it it really wasn't much of a decision.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Um you know my wife teaches in the same school district where he goes to school you know and so um you know and and like you know I mean when I how was it how was it for you though how did you find that balance because I think we're not the only two coaches that have have this experience how did you balance um being the head football coach at McCullum and you having all these kids that you're basically raising as your own you know sons and daughters to being at home maybe being able to hit a game here and there depending on your schedule and when things let me tell you about the the greatness of Texas high school football coaches man.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

All right so when I got this job I I I got the schedule you know and And, you know, because a lot of teams share stadiums. You know, we'll have we'll have three schools in a in an independent school district that share one stadium. Right. So some teams play on Thursday nights every once in a while. You know, it's kind of a Friday night lights is the thing, but you know, you're gonna have two or three Thursday night games throughout the year. Okay. So I got our schedule, I got Bernie's schedule. And and and and Bernie's head coach is like my best friend. Okay. Like we've coached together. Our kids are like cousins, you know. I mean, we've raised them together. Um, so I got my schedule, I got Bernie's schedule, and I started looking at school districts. Uh, first of all, I wanted to see how many games I could go to. I could go to two games. I could, you know, it was a Thursday and a and a Friday offset, something like that. So, and then we were gonna play each other. Um, you know, so three, but I was gonna be pretty busy that night, so I wasn't gonna get to focus on it. So, so anyways, so I I I started noticing I I would look at school districts and I'd be like, hey, you know, they play on Thursday, they play on a Friday, whatever. So I just started calling coaches and I was like, hey, look, you know, Dave Wilkinson will call him, hey, yeah, coach, I know you, whatever. Hey, you know, my son, I left at Bernie, he's a senior. I noticed you have a Friday night game then. Is there any way you're playing Bernie on a Friday night? Well, I play on a Friday night. Is there any way y'all could get your stadium on a Thursday and give them he's like, well, I mean, let me let me call my let me call my uh athletic director and see, you know, and like I did that uh to four schools, all four of them changed their schedule. So I got to see my son play six times. And and then, you know, I got to see him play through the playoffs. Playoffs. Um uh when we played at Bernie, um, they switched their senior night for my son to to be our game. So I got to walk my son out before the game on his senior night. And so like it just it, you know, I just asked, and people were so gracious to do it, you know. And so, I mean, of course, you know, I had his huddle log in and I was watching all his, you know, stuff, you know, you know, I mean, I would sneak in and you know, watch his practices and make sure, you know, I mean, you know, because I I had time to do that, a little bit of time to do that. But I mean, I I was super involved, but I I'll tell you what, it was great. Like, I got to be dad. You know, I had never I did you know, like, I mean, I, you know, I would wear purple and and I would show up on, you know, Friday, we'd play on a Thursday night, I'd show up on a Friday night, or vice versa. And uh, you know, I I'd my coaches were great. Like if Bernie played on on a Thursday night, my coaches, I was like, guys, I'm not gonna be at the freshman JV games tonight. I'm sorry, I'm going to watch Bobby. And and they're like, ah, coach, we got it. You know, it's all good. You know, just text me, let me know how it is. And it was it was awesome because you know, uh we we have a couple kids on our team. Their dad coaches at UTSA. And so he and I would sit up there with our wives, you know, here we are, and man, we got to watch our kids play. And it and it was great. And so we loved it. You know, I mean, we embraced it, you know. Um, like I'll just show you right now, I got it right next to me. Every every picture for the last for the last 18 years has been our family all in the same colors, but but this year we took our picture and I'm in my stuff, Bobby's in his bunny stuff, Brooks is in his AM stuff, and you know, it's awesome. That's where we're at in our life, and we embraced it and we loved it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

So well, good for you. That's that's I was curious about that, and I just I wanted to get yours because I I had my own thing too, because the first couple years, you know, I went to I was at my first head job was at kind of a uh a school that had notoriously the tradition was incredible, but they had been down for quite some time. So um, even though we had the first winning season in, I don't know, 13, 14 years when I got there, we didn't make the playoffs. And then the next year we didn't. And so I was able to, you know, and then our games seemed to be get over a lot quicker. So I'd jump in my car and race over and get to see the last half or last quarter and a half. Yeah. Um, yeah, so those were it was it was hard, but it was fun.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Yeah, I'll tell you what. One one one that got me, and this is I'll just we I know you got to end, but they're playing the two, it's the two best teams in in our in central Texas, Bernie and Alamo Heights. And they're playing basically for the district championship, and we end our game, and I knew it was a tight game. Everybody's like, hey, just you score Bernie at halftime, you know, whatever. It's like three point, just they kept trading scores, you know, whatever. And uh, so I mean, I'm literally walking off the field, and I I have my cell phone in my pocket, and I call my wife, and I'm like, hey, what who are we gonna win? Like, what's what's you know, what's what's going on? She's like, we're up by three, they're driving, you know. I she was like, they're like running out of town. Their quarterback's scrambling, you know, all this stuff, whatever. And then my son got the game-winning interception, and my wife just loses it. You know, she's like, Oh my god, Bobby got the game-winning interception, you know, whatever. And I just started ball and crying, you know. I was just like, holy crap, I can't believe I'm not there, you know, you know, whatever. Like, we had just gotten our butt kicked. We drove down to Victoria and got our butt kicked, you know. So I'm just, I was just like, wow, I can't believe I missed it. You know, but that's other than that, I never felt I never had like a fear of missing out, you know. Like I felt like it worked out really, really well.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, Coach Wilkinson, I I really appreciate you jumping on. Um we'll have you back. This is this has been great. And and kudos to you guys and and your family. And um sounds like you're super, super happy, and the community's very fortunate to have you, and vice versa, with you being involved in them.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

So yeah, good will. It it's a great place to be. I'm I'm super fortunate to be here. Uh, you know, and so I love my job and it was a great decision. I'm gonna be here for a while. So so appreciate you having me, man. I've I this is this is funny.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Yeah, coach, hang on just a sec. I'm gonna stop the recording, but I wanna I wanna this needs to upload and then I wanna shoot something past you real quick, okay? Okay, thanks, Coach.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

Thank you.