#84 Kevin McCabe

Episode 84 features Arizona sports broadcasting legend Kevin McCabe, known by many as the "Dean of Arizona High School Sports." In this powerful conversation, Kevin reflects on more than four decades of covering athletes, coaches, and communities across Arizona while sharing lessons on relationships, leadership, mentorship, resilience, and faith. From his journey through addiction and recovery to the importance of character in youth sports, Kevin offers a candid and inspiring perspective on what truly matters beyond the scoreboard.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

I was gonna say that. I flipped the flipped the script on you. And um I'll go ahead and introduce you. Kevin McCabe, known to many as the Dean of Arizona High School Sports. Um Kevin, I have I I it's hard for me to call you the Dean. That's my middle name is Dean, but still, nonetheless, it's still hard for me to call you anything but Kev. You know that we've we've known each other. I'm 53, we've known each other since I was eight years old. And um you're a lumberjack graduate, uh, Northern Arizona University, and and um worked for CB, got into sports casting and was on TV for quite quite a number of years between Tucson and the Phoenix area with CBS and then with Fox. Um, and now you you have your own radio show on Arizona Sports 98.7, which is one of the largest, probably in the whole country, but in the state of Arizona, it's obviously the biggest. Um, you have a Saturday morning show where you interview and talk to everybody, and it's it's impressive. So I wanted to get you on here, Kev, because not just because of our history, but just because um I'm trying to do some different things with this podcast. I'm trying to bring people in that have different viewpoints, but still um centered around the leadership and the culture and what you've seen and parenting. We've been talking about that and recruiting. Um, so I missed a lot of things. Happy 36th um wedding anniversary to you and Penny. And uh that was what, about a month and a half ago?

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Yeah, no, it's all good, brother. You're all good. Everything you said is awesome. I I I'm embarrassed to hear you know my resume. So uh the mere fact that you and I are reconnecting, that warms my heart. And it obviously I'm a little nervous, a little anxious, because it's usually me drilling you on your coaching techniques and your history. So um I'm I you know, if I balk or to pause or cry, you'll know why.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Yeah, well, it you know, I was kind of going through some things when I was prepping for this, and it's funny because obviously the air U of A ties, University of Arizona ties, but my ex-wife was um the the mother of my three boys, was a gymnast at U of A. Yes, yeah, um back in the late 80s, early 90s, and then my girlfriend, um she's a lumberjack, she's an NAU grad, and her her the father of her son, Carter, um, is a guy by the name of Vince Henman, who was a yeah, was a linebacker, captain, stud um at NAU. And I what a tremendous man. I mean, we we talk all the time. Really good man, and uh he lives up here. I just saw him last week at his son graduated, so we had a big party and good family.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

Small world though. One of the things I love is exactly what you said there, Corb, is that that you've done this because you've built so many relationships through the years, and somehow all of us uh in this industry in sports and high school football and coaching, and then obviously at the next level, we're all related. We're all related. I I saw a text, uh text last night from um uh Mark Tucker, the great coach, offensive line coach at Hamilton, talking about John Matsko. And you know Matz, he coached with your dad, and and we're like I said, it's it's Kevin Bacon, baby. We're all it's like 15 degrees that we're all related at some point. So um it's just so good to see. Uh-huh. So good to see you, man. I mean, I I remember those days of you trolling the sidelines, and people won't remember that the coaches were had were tethered to a wire, a headset. So they they had somebody call and they we always called it walking the dog. You were out there walking the dog with your dad, and we used to laugh, and it was it was great. I mean, it's it's to watch you grow up and be the man you are, it makes me so proud. That's the coolest thing. To see that.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

We've we've I appreciate that. We've both have fallen on some hard times and made some poor decisions, and um, you know, but but ultimately you lean on people like yourself and and others, and and you know, you talk about that that degree of separation in the in the sports world, in athletic world, um, it's really probably more like two. That's it, yeah. Two P. I mean, it's it's it's just wild. So um, but I wanted to I wanted to ask and get it get into a lot of things, and and um what made you want to get into the industry that you're in, the the broadcasting industry? And I know you you know you work for Honor Health and and you know you do some other things, but primarily you've been doing this for well over 40 years.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Well, I got really lucky, Corb. I went to school at Northern Arizona University um and I had no idea what I wanted to major in. I I was a physical education major because I I play I played hockey and I thought that's what you do. I was gonna wind up being a coach and I I I was a French major for a while because I I lived in a Canadian city and spoke French fluently, and I thought that was an easy A. Uh, but late in my my college uh days, I I went into the radio station and and at the on campus, and I said, Wow, they'll pay you money to talk to play music like a DJ, and wow, they'll pay you money to talk about sports. I had no idea. I um, you know, I I saw an old girlfriend uh at like one of the 40-year reunions, and somebody asked her, they said, Did he always want or Kevin, did you always want to be in sports? And and I I said, uh, she stopped. She goes, Yes, he always wanted to do something involving sports. So I kind of fell into it. Um I got I graduated, and the timing was great because at the time, Corb, there was only three three networks, ABC, CBS, and NBC. There were basically two jobs for in every city for what I did, a weekday guy and a weekend guy. And then Flagstaff, the station got bought out um by a company, and they said we're gonna start a weekend sports cast. And I knew their sports director, and I said, Yeah, I'd love to. I just worked two days a week there and bartended and did all that stuff and made, I think I made $365 an hour doing weekends there, but lucked into it, fell in love with it, and realized, you know, I'm I've I've always been had the gift of the gab, but this was something that uh I had a fascination with telling people stories. So I really lucked out getting into it. And then I obviously climbed the ladder. It's a lot like like baseball. Um, minor league baseball. I still suggest this when I go talk to schools. You need to go to the minor leagues and work your way up. And I was fortunate. I got a couple of years in at Flagstaff and then came down to Tucson, had a little seasoning, but then I grew. I grew in in and thanks largely to to your dad and your mom and people who embraced me and taught me the way of how to be a sportscaster.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Yeah. Um, something that that I always felt like, and I still do, this sets you apart. So in your industry, um, people are hired to give their opinions. Right? That I mean, that's that's that's a big part, a big big piece of it is whether you're an expert, not an expert, it doesn't matter. People are hired, in my opinion, to give their opinions. Um and you do, you give your opinion. The difference that I see, and I and I don't know if I can specifically name another let's just sportscaster, someone that that that talks about sports and and is involved in athletes and with athletes and coaches and parents and the whole gamut, you know, ownership and um, you know, managers and all that kind of stuff. But you have this innate ability to focus on the positive. And I mean, I don't I don't I don't want to talk about you know, these experts, they give their opinion and sometimes, a lot of times, half the time, it's it's could be a negative opinion, right? I don't see you doing that. What where how did you learn that? Why did you choose that? Why is that your approach, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Well, and and obviously the industry's changed in in recent years. You know, when I was coming up, Ray Scott, the legendary broadcaster from the Green Bay Packers and CBS, the late Ray Scott, had come to Tucson and he said, Kevin, when you're on television, that's an invitation into people's living rooms. That's so you wouldn't go in there and start screaming your opinions. And and I I joke, the industry's changed now. Stephen A. and Pat McAfee have done a great job of coming into your living room and screaming at you. But it was a different era. And and then I work with uh Steve Garrigiola of the great Garrigiola family. And one of the lines he told me, he said, look for the good. Look for the good in a story. Anyone can say this guy sucks, this guy's bad, this guy's this. But if you can find the good, it's a better story. And um, so I thought that, but um, I continue to try to do that. Now, as I've I've built my career recently, uh uh having covered high schools here for 46 years, I did make a mistake. Again, the industry's changed. Social media is where people just chirp and bam, bah, yang, yang, yang, this guy sucks, and yang yah. Um, I made a mistake. Uh Brock Purdy, uh the great quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, nobody was recruiting this young man. And finally, uh December of his senior year, Alabama offered him. And he posted that, and I said, Oh, great, good. They just won the natty with Tua and Jalen. Good luck. And I immediately pulled that tweet down and said, Where, where, who's to say that he's not going to go in there and beat those guys out? And why am I defeating, you know, you got offered by Alabama. You got the gold standard. Why am I tearing this kid down? I immediately called his dad, Sean Purdy, who I love and I and I love Brock, and I said, I am so sorry. And his dad laughed, and his dad doesn't do any social media. But I vowed then that I'm going to try to find a positive way to spin these stories. And even there, there's a lot of negative. And you know that. There's, but if we can find whatever benefits the people and the successes that are doing, that's my goal. It's real easy to say he sucks, he's no good, he's a criminal, he's this. But if we can find the good, that that makes it a better story. And he and and I think more telling story.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yeah, that that that I'm gonna tell you what, and you know Braxton, and Braxton played with Brock and Perry. Sure. Um Brock Brock was a year older, and then Preston Jones, my former um brother-in-law, was his coach. And um, you know, that that there was a lot of frustration, I think, from just everybody in the Valley. I mean, here's this kid that has every single intangible. Okay, he's undersized for a you know a big time FBS quarterback. He's not 6'4 and 215, he's which I'm so sick of all that, but yes, you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

You saw him up close. He was yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

And so, I mean, you know, there was a lot of frustration. I know Preston was frustrated. I know the and and the one person that probably was frustrated, but because of his faith in the Lord, just was Brock himself. You know, he knew things were gonna happen the way that they should. And um yeah, it was what a tremendous story of just perseverance and faith, quite honestly.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

All of it. And I I just had his mom on uh uh Mother's Day had her come on my show because Brock, uh I thought it was, and I didn't want to make it about Brock. Um Chuba, their their youngest younger son, who many thought would he is 6'3 and 215, they thought he was gonna be better, but injuries plagued his career. Uh their other daughter played college softball, so you know, it wasn't always about Brock. And she joked, she said, you know, I'm so proud of all my kids and keeping keeping Brock humble, you know, you just got 254 million dollars. So but I love the fact that they do that, and it's faith, family, and then, oh, by the way, this football is pretty cool. So I'm that's the neatest thing for me, Corbin. I I echo, you know, going back to you, and I I'm gonna jump, uh, take the wheel here. Your dad was so instrumental in that with me, and I've told that, share that story, maybe with you, with other people. Was there were some situations that went on at the University of Arizona that were negative, there were bad stories, kids with drugs and this kind of thing. And I went to your dad and I said, I've got this story, I need to break this story. And we built a relationship on trust. Uh, he took care of it. I didn't break it, I didn't need to have that story, but because of that trust, I got every other story that the U of A had. And similarly, now, um, I've all these years of 46 years, you know, I had coaches announce their retirement two weeks ago, and I said they said, Kev, will you sit on it? I said, Yeah, yeah, wow. The effort for these young kids to be first and breaking and and to to be next, it I I there's something more to building trust in those people who are in the industry. These are their lives, Corb. These are their lives. And um you know that. You coach, and this is what you did for a living. And I want to build that trust, and I respect that. I respect this. Isn't just sports and he sucks and the fans and boo him, and you know, that's these guys are lives, parents, wives, kids, family. So that's I had to thank your dad for that.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

No, you you uh I know he loved you. Our whole family loves you, you know that.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Um, your mom's the your mom's the best. Come on now. I she did the best she could work with with you. I mean, that's the best. She did the best she could.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

No, she she just took my niece to Italy for a week or 10 days and got back like probably about a week and a half ago. So um yeah, so we're we're moving back. Um Carrie and I are moving back at the end of June, um, doing some things at the house, that kind of stuff. So we're actually flying down later today for a couple days um to get some stuff prepped. But um, yeah, I'm like, Mom, you come up, hang out. And she's like, you guys are gonna be working. I'm too old to do that. I got enough stuff around my house to do. So uh we talk every single day. Every single day. I love that you you talk about the relationships, um, and you talked about, you know, coaches, this is their livelihood and and what they do, but it's the same with you. And what people don't know that don't know you or aren't familiar with Arizona high school sports is that um you are at everything. At everything. I can't tell you how many times I was on the sidelines, and I looked over and there you are. And and normally a lot of times you would text me and say, hey, you know, I'll I'll be at the game or you know, for a little bit. And so you the relationships that you've built amongst the the high school athletic community in the state of Arizona is unlike any I've ever seen. And um how important is you know building those relationships and what have you learned from watching coaches um build those relationships and and taking something from them to implement into your profession and and your own relationship building?

SPEAKER_03 15:47

I you nailed it, Corm. It's uh it's it's and everybody says this, and I kind of I always stop them or I cringe when they'll you know, I I've gotten into business development and I've gotten into nonprofit fundraising, and everybody goes, it's all about relationships. And I said, no, no, no, no, no. It's about genuine relationships. It's about building that trust when you can call somebody when you don't need something. And that's what I try to do. Uh uh Craig Grillo, who's been a longtime broadcaster here in Arizona, does the Cardinals pregame shows and post-game shows. I showed up for a son's practice one day and at nine in the morning, he goes, he goes, Oh, Kevin McCabe's here. It must be a big story. And I laughed and he said, he says, no, no, you're at everything. And TV guys generally didn't go to everything. TV guys and a lot of reporters don't. And I dare I say, as we're doing this on a Zoom or at a studio, a lot of the a lot of the reporters now just do this. They hey coach, can you come on? Can you can you can we zoom? You gotta, you have to be there to get the story. You have to be there. And I love the son's practice. I remember Mike Dantoni at the time, you know, he's looking, and somebody said, you know, you only play, you only go eight deep on your bench. Why is that? And he looks over at me and he goes, Kev, Kev, you're here. You know those other guys can't play. And so they you you see that, you get the story, they get the trust. And when something bad does go happen, I you know, I like it to my days, you know, chase and Charles Barkley. Charles and I built an amazing relationship back in the day. Um, and I and I loved it. I was there every day because he's an amazing person. And my dad asked me, he said, aren't you worried that you're getting too close to this star? And I said, Dad, if you had a chance to get close to Duke Snyder or Willie Mays back in your New York days, you you would have done. I'm getting paid to follow this guy around. He said, What if happens when something bad goes? And I said, He knows. He knows, and he knows that he can trust me that I will try to find the positive in it and and share that. And um, Charles and I broke up for a few years, you know, and and we since rekindled, and and I still love him. And he's the best. I mean, yeah, that's the gold standard of athletes in broadcasting. So uh I love that relationship that I've had with him.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

You know, it's funny you talk about him, and I'll just add my own two cents on Charles. It it, you know, when I got divorced, gosh, almost 20 years ago, um, I started going out, you know, and I was I was in my 30s and I'd go out and of course you did. And you run it, you run into a lot of people that are high profile.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

And I probably ran into Charles Barclay six, seven times over the course of a couple years that I was going out. And and I'm gonna tell you something about that man. He is he is Charles Barkley is Charles Barkley. The best. What you see, what you see is exactly who he is. You know, kind of like Brock. I mean, people ask him about Brock.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

It's like I'll admit this here on your show. Um I made a mistake, and you you talked about it. We made, we, I made a bunch of mistakes in my life, and one of which were um I went a little sideways in my life with alcohol and drug addiction, and I'm I I wear it on my sleeve because it's part of my life. But at the time I was I was financially strained, I was losing my house, my wife and and kids were they had nothing to do with me. And I reached out to Charles and I said, I need to borrow some money. I owed the IRS $90,000, and this is all through drugs and alcohol and just my fall from grace. And I said, Char, you know, I said, Charles, I need to borrow some money. And he said, No. And our s our relationship went sideways. He says, I don't loan friends money. And um, we've since rekindled. He was gonna write the foreword for my book, and he got too busy, and it's fine. Steve Kerr has since done that. You know, Steve is another great friend. But Charles reminded me that, you know, he was, I said, you know, Charles, I'm sorry that I I was in that depth, but it was drugs and alcohol. And he said, I said, I've got 11 years clean, and he said, I'm so proud of you. He he was really genuinely proud. He said, and I he reminded me that his brother had died as a result of drugs and alcohol. And I'd forgotten about Daryl. Uh Daryl had gotten clean, but he the toll it had taken on his body. So he knows how uh, you know, and I think we all have relationships, how how diabolical the drugs and alcohol can be. And um, he did just, you know, he told me, he said the quote was, he says, you know, I know my brother. He goes, I could have put a million dollars in front of him and a pile of cocaine, and he wouldn't have even looked at the million dollars. And I said, I know that guy. I know that guy. That would have been me. You would have given me that loan, and I would have burned it and not taken care of the things I needed to. So I love Charles, and I'm so glad you, you know, you saw that, you see it. He I love him. I love everything I've had in life with him, and I'm glad that we're once again friends. He's a grandpa now, and he sends me videos of his grandkids, his grandkids, um, you know, goo gooing, gagaing, and I'm going, you're a Hall of Famer, you're one of the 20 greatest ever, and you're just a fat blanoi skinny now, a skinny grandpa. Because that's what grandpa's do, they send videos of their grandkids. So I love the cat, and you know that.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Oh, I know. Yeah, I I I know the grandpa video sending thing. Um, I I the other thing, I I how important, because there are a couple guys that just pop in my mind that have have really followed your lead when it comes to building those relationships, being at everything, um, being for the most part super, super positive, and Cody Cameron and um Chili. I mean, and I know there's a couple more that I'm that I'm forgetting, but but those two guys stick out. Um, and and maybe there's not a direct mentorship. I don't know if they call you, I don't know if they say, hey, what, but they've they've watched and they've learned and they've used it to their advantage. Um and I know you had mentors, you know, in your industry. Oh and you still do. Um and I'm you know, coaches, we talked. I just had um Zach Fredgill on um last week, and we talked specifically. Yeah, we talked a great deal about the mentorship because within both my LLC and now that the foundation, the nonprofit, is launched, that's something that he really wants to dive into. And quite honestly, I told him, I said, great. I said, I because my hands right now are full with both of them. How important is it for you to to, and I know you're super humble, but does it warm your heart to know that that these the younger guys are kind of following your lead when it comes to building those relationships and really being visible and trying to stay positive?

SPEAKER_03 22:36

That's a great question. And and it really came to head here recently where uh had some young reporters, we call them culture vultures, looking for the clicks, we're just spreading all sorts of you know, seven-on-seven videos, and this kid's being slept on. And I I called him, I called him up and I said, Stop, stop, stop, stop. Um, slow down. Um, everybody's not being slept on, and everybody's not going P5. And I got you chastised. Oh, the old man's saying this. And I said, you know, when I came up here back in the day, young Klunk brothers, you know, you watched Bill Denny and Steve Passenti. You watched these reporters, you watched these national reporters, how they handle themselves, how they dress, how they approach things. You weren't out there trying to get clicks, you're learning how the industry, how to build those trusts and those relationships. And you mentioned um two young people who I really am excited and proud that that you that you put them in the same sentence as me as Cody Cameron, who's an NEU grad, which I'm proud of that, because um he got into it and he was really driven uh by a lot of that, but he also had respect for the game and respect for the coaches, and now he's gotten into he's working double duty and I think doing some coaches' camps. But he sees that these coaches don't make any money, they make four or five thousand dollars and be fire this guy, fight, and I stop. It's it's it's this is a passion of life. And Jeff Chili's another great example. He's probably the and I love this kid, and I didn't. When he first burst onto the scene and he was doing all his hip-hop social media, uh, high school football, blah, blah, blah. And I go, what the hell is this? And I let him know that. And he kind of reeled a lot of it in. And I said, There's some respect that we have to offer here. You can't interview kids during a game, and he he came to realize that, and everything's not hip-hop, and everything. Um, and but I've also learned from him. I've also learned from him and how social media is so powerful. And I likened it to the Brock Purdy story where I can say something and it explodes. And so I have to be really uh calculated. Same thing with him and Cody, but two great young uh talents who help evolve the the journalistic standards that I try to have. A lot of kids don't have those, they don't have ethics, they don't have journalistic standards. Um, they come out of college thinking I gotta I gotta be Stephen A. I gotta get clicks, I gotta get likes. And there's something about learning the business and learning the trust, and then we all had to do it. I made mistakes. Oh god, I I have in my stack here. There's there's headlines from Tucson back in the day when I made a mistake, and it says Sportscaster takes the bull by the horns. And I had a lot that that's this this was the front page of the newspaper. I screwed up. So I made mistakes, and they make mistakes, but I think if you learn from those and you're willing to say, you know what, maybe you're right. I don't need to hide, I don't need to give scores and highlights from a seven-on-seven game in the middle of summer against air in shorts. You can celebrate, hey, this kid looks good, this kid, but stop. Slow everyone needs to slow their roll. You know, it's not about getting 35 likes or what or the meet the music videos they do, the the hip-hop videos, and look at me. No coach is looking at that. No, no coach is looking at your mixtape. No, right.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yeah, it's it's funny because that it reminds me, and I posted this a couple months ago, but I heard this quote, and um, my publisher from for my book, he he he been a superintendent, been a coach, been a teacher, Winslow and all across, you know, in in here in the Denver area. But um, his name is Darren Peppard, and he he owns Road to Awesome LLC, and you know, national speaker and stuff. And he he said this quote about three months ago. We were on a mastermind, and he said, We are all uniquely positioned to help the person we used to be. I started thinking about that, and I wrote it down, and I'm like, wow, we are all uniquely, and and quite honestly, that's something that has really shaped you know the the athlete and character development and the culture sustainability programs that I've implemented, the nonprofit, because all the mistakes that I've made, and there's been thousands and thousands, and poor decisions. And yeah, I've I've there's been successes along the way, but I've used those things that I didn't have, that I needed, that I wish I had, that I didn't do, that I made mistakes on, and I've built systems to make sure that those are correctable before they happen, preventable. Um let me let me ask you about this because this is this is a big one, and and I'm interested in your perspective. The changes in high school athletics, um, and and quite honestly, youth athletics too, because it, you know, obviously, um, I I I had Deshaun Burns on here a couple times, um, played with him at SC, he's the head coach at Linfield Christian, and we were talking, I'm like, yeah, everything trickles down, and he goes core because I think everything trickles up. And I said, explain that. And he was talking about how it's going from youth to high school, and I started thinking about it, and I'm like, Yeah, he's like, think about it. We need a lot of these NFL players at some point, they were in youth football. Things started to change, parents started to get more involved, the entitlement, all that kind of stuff. And I'm like, wow. So, what are the biggest changes that that you see um amongst youth in high school athletics?

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Yeah, I think, wow, that's great. It does, uh, because I think each fuels each other. Um, you know, we're watching college football on the transfer portal, and there's no loyalty, and there's money, and there's bling and that bag. Uh, so that just fuels the young parents that they've got to start this. Uh, I think it's it's insane. And my my good friend Charles Barkley said it years ago with AAU basketball, it's ruined basketball. Um, I just hope it does. I still love 95% of all that is youth sports, but when we start ranking the top fifth grader in the country, when we start start putting these super teams together, uh youth football and practicing their touchdown dances and parents out there celebrating with them. Um and then and then now we have eighth graders announcing where they're gonna take their talents. This is the insanity that, you know, I sound like the old man, you know, get off my lawn, but um, it's the insanity that that's driving really good coaches away. And people aren't lining up for those jobs. And a lot of it too is coaches, a lot of these young coaches, they can get every these young people can get everything they need on one of these. We all can. We can get everything we need, but we can't get this. We can't get communication, we can't get life lessons, we can't get learn skills, standing in line, patience, time management. You can't get any of that on a phone. And we're seeing all of that transfer into sports. And um, I it yeah I cringe, and that's and that's what I said. I the you know, kids announcing that they're transferring in high school, and I uh that really upset me that and that some people were celebrating that. And I said, it's okay, I get it, because they're allowed to, and I want the best for my kid. If my kid was a great music, if my kid was a great music student, I I I I would uh I would send him to a great music school. If my kid was a great tennis player, he's going to a tennis school, mathematician, he's going to Brofi. Um, but I I I it defeats the whole purpose of what high school sports originally was, and that was the neighborhood kids playing with each other. I know they're gonna go transfer, but if a kid transfers and we're announcing it and we're celebrating it, and saying, Oh, this guy, the kid's going to Centennial, three-star running back, blah, blah, blah. And I said, okay, what does that say about the school that he left, the coaches who invested in him in the community, the parents there, that they're lesser? And also, what does it say to the kids that he's coming into that they've been at practice for the past six weeks? They're the running backs, and this kid's going to replace him. So I don't want to celebrate that. I I can acknowledge it, but we don't need to say uh these teams that are stockpiling, and I have my own visions too and feelings about transfers and things like that. That I I think the kids I think I've said let kids transfer, let them play all 10 games. They can't, but they can't play in the playoffs. Everybody goes, What? And I said, Okay, no, no, they get their 10 games of film, they come in. But if you're the coach and you're a former coach, you're a former player, if you know you're not going to have that kid for the playoffs, eh? What does that do to you as a coach? Now you've got to coach the other kids up, and it's not about winning championships and getting the bag in the bling. Because then you're recruiting to get all I want to I want to stockpile my roster with. So what does it do if I don't get those kids for the playoffs? And every, oh Kevin, that'll never we we want to grow the game. I go, that's not growing the game. You know, uh, if we're doing that, then you build the RIMG academies, you build those things. That's if you want national powers, that's what you do. But uh you just uh no no, you just uh there's just so many things that are going on. My phone's blowing up here, so I've got to turn it off. That's my daughter calling me, wanting me wanting wanting me to help her move, which I can't do with this arm. So yeah. But I still I still love it, Corby. I love the genuineness, the 90% pureness of high school sports. I've really soured on college sports. I really have. Um I always wanted kids to get paid if they're signing autographs, if they're selling new jersey, uh, if they're doing pizza commercials, but not just going and getting a bag because you went to a school. It's just gross. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

It's funny you talk about the transfer one. I want to I want to ask you a question, but I remember I I did I had a couple conversations with David Hines back when he was the executive director of the AIA, and we were talking about transfer and and he's like, what do you think? I said, honestly, I said, here's my deal. As a coach and as a father of kids have played, I said, I don't know how you do it, but if it was up to me, it would be if a kid wants to transfer and he has played a varsity game, he has played a game at the varsity level, make him sit half the season. But if he's never played a varsity game, yeah, let him transfer. Just let him go with no repercussions. And now, and I don't know if it's still the same, but two years ago when I left, it was and it was actually kind of nice. It was you can anybody can transfer, and you only had to sit out if you were gonna um play with the varsity squad. So as a coach, before the season even started, you had to make a decision on if that kid was gonna play varsity, and if he did, he had to sit out five games. But you could take a freshman that transferred and say he he's he's just gonna play JV football and he's not allowed to play, and he could play right away. And which I thought was I'm good with that. Yeah. Let me ask yeah, let me ask you that question because you coach, because uh that's the the Kevin McCabe rule of I no, I so I no, but yeah, and Kevin, my my mindset with with the college, you know, and this happened probably about the same time I moved, I started really sort of thinking about it and talking to coaches, and it's like because I was a transfer, I transferred from SC to Iowa uh for for a different reason, not because I wasn't playing. From an from a playing standpoint, I should have stayed at SC. Um, but I so I had to sit a year. I I got my full scholarship, I practiced every day, I was a part of the team, I just couldn't compete on Saturdays, right? So my thing now is very simple. And uh Tupperville finally came out, but my thing, and this holds true for high school athletics, just blanket it. High school, college, I don't care. Let every kid transfer one time with no repercussions, and then if they do it a second time, they got to sit for a year. Because I don't I don't have a problem with kids transfer. I do have a problem with kids transferring two, three, four, five, six times. And at the college level, they're doing it for money, they're not doing it to get better opportunities, they're doing it for money, not for playing time, for money, and not because a coach leaves.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

How how do you think how do you think all that, what have you seen how it in regards to how it affects, you know, uh a young athlete's character, specifically leadership qualities, um, humility, uh, accountability, dealing with adversity, work ethic, those those specific character traits.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

I I I wanna I wanna ask you a quick question. Um can you hear me okay, Kev? Okay, all right. Uh yeah, no, I don't know what's going on. When I when I edit it, it'll all be cleaned up, everything will be fine. But um you you you I reached out to you, I don't know, a month ago or so about the foundation and stuff like that. And you have a good friend that also has a foundation and it's more mental health specific as it relates to youth in in high school, and it's um is it Valiant Sports Society? Um yeah, how important do you think that is to just because I want to I wanted to ask you, I'm segueing into asking you about your advice for parents you of athletes, whether it's youth or high school, because you've been a parent, you know, you got five kids, you've been a parent to to your own children, I've been a parent. Um, we're not just sportscasters or coaches and see all this stuff, but but you know, you see, you know, how other parents are. I've seen how other parents are. We've been parents, we've made mistakes as as you know, sports parents, and um with Todd's you know uh founding his nonprofit, I mean, they're really focused on that. So um, how important do you think you know the the Valiant Sports Society um is um for for our parents and our youth? And then what kind of advice would you give to parents of athletes?

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Yeah, I know they do. Yes, he has to be a little bit more than a lot. No.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:19

You know, it's the the one thing I tell, I told all my boys this and still tell people this. Um Preston, you know, my oldest who played at Weaver State. Uh I remember him calling me after after his college days were done. He had many, many opportunities. The UFL was calling them every day. And we had a conversation. He's like, I'm you know, I started 57 games at Weaver State, second most in their history. And um, you know, so I just told him, I said, but I said, here's the deal. I said, everything, every every athlete's career ends as an athlete. That that's you know, it's it's like you know, taxes and dying. But every athlete's career ended. Braxton, you know, my middle after he went to Riverside, you know, he had opportunities to continue playing, you know, um at four-year institutions, and his body was wrecked. And I told him that. And then Brody, my youngest, coming out of Perry, we started alive for two years, had I mean a lot of great opportunities to go play at the FCS level and stuff. And we had a conversation, and I told him the same thing. You know, he he had a dream to become a you know, Navy special operator, which he is, and it's like it ends for everybody. If you don't want to continue playing, don't play. But if you're gonna play, you're gonna be 100% committed.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

So um, yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Go ahead, Kev.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

Um, I I know, I know I learned that, I heard that for the first time. Um, when I got out of college coach and moved back to Phoenix, um, I got hired at Medtronic Spine and Biologics. And Jeff Van Raphorst was my regional manager, he hired me. Um, but my my my mentor, the person that was really showing me the business and and teaching me was Nathan Leduc. And I remember sign 2x ASU.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Right. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Yeah. So I asked Jeff, I'm like, you know, all these sales were because in that industry, we were in surgeries 95% of the time, you know, in spine surgeries. It's a sales position, but it's not selling, it's consulting. Um, and I asked Ben Raphores, I'm like, Jeff, I'm like, why do all these people around me and that I see tend to be ex-college athletes or ex-military? He said, 85% of the sales reps and our associates in this industry, whether it's ortho, endoscopy, spine, you know, whatever it is, are ex-military and ex-college athletes because of what you just said, what you've learned as an athlete, being in the military, being a part of a team, high pressure situations, stressful situations, dealing with adversity, making quick decisions. So yeah, it athletics, yeah, it sets you up. Last question I want to ask you, Kevin, and and then we'll we'll roll.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Tell us about your book. You'll get one.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

I'm getting I got I got about fifty being made. You'll get one. You gotta keep doing uh well, I love you too, Kev. And uh just hey, just hang on for a sec, but thank you again. And we'll let everybody know when that when that book gets released.