Academic Distinctions: A Podcast to Make Sense of American Education
Hosted by Stephanie Melville and Zac Chase, "Academic Distinctions" is a podcast for educators that tackles the reading and research teachers often don't have time for. With experience as classroom teachers, district administrators, and federal policy wonks, the hosts bring a unique perspective to discussions on education's "greatest hits" and current events. The podcast is committed to delivering engaging, informative, and actionable content that is relevant and responsive to the needs of educators.
Academic Distinctions: A Podcast to Make Sense of American Education
003: What is IDEA and what's the future of special education with the skinny budget?
Meghan Whittaker, former chief of staff for the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services at the U.S. Department of Education joins Stephanie and Zac to explain IDEA. From their they look at what could be the national impact on 7.5 million students receiving special education services if Trump's skinny budget becomes a reality. Spoiler: It's not great.
Hi, I'm Stephanie Melville.
Zac Chase:And I'm Zac Chase. And welcome to Academic Distinctions, a podcast to make sense of American education. Today we're going to be talking about the skinny, the skinny budget, which I didn't know what it was because I don't really pay attention to these things until I started going and researching it. The Trump administration has sent or released its skinny budget, which is a light here, our priorities budget for folks to see what their plans are. Of particular note is some potential changes. to IDEA or the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, which puts me, I think, I know what AI is and I know what IDEA stands for. So that puts me two to zero against the current Secretary of Education to help me make sense of this. Megan Whitaker, a good friend, also the former chief of staff for the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services at the U.S. Department of Education. I bet you can guess when she stopped being that. And the policy director for the former policy director for the National Center on Learning Disabilities and just a good person. Megan, thanks for joining.
Meghan Whittaker:Thanks so much for having me.
Zac Chase:So let's set the stage. Most people, I think, unless they've had a direct interaction with it, do not know what IDEA is. So in the most basic of terms, pretend that you just got confirmed by Congress to be the Secretary of Education, but you have no background in education, and you were trying to get up to speed. How would you explain IDEA?
Meghan Whittaker:Well, in the most basic terms, IDEA, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, is our nation's special education law. It is a guarantee from the federal government that every state will make sure that eligible children with disabilities will have access to what we call a free and appropriate public education. So at no cost to parents, individualized based on the needs of each student, and the federal law, it places responsibilities on states and districts to comply. That's kind of in a nutshell what IDEA is.
Zac Chase:And so like appropriate, not like we're not going to show like tell dirty jokes, but like appropriate to each
Meghan Whittaker:individual student. Exactly. So, you know, it meets this obligation of providing a free appropriate public education through special education. The law calls it specially designed instruction and related services. So that could be adapting the content or the delivery of content in the classroom for a child based on their needs. Maybe it's one-to-one instruction from a special educator, a group session with a literacy specialist if you have dyslexia, and then related services. So speech therapy, maybe weekly sessions with an occupational therapist if you have delays or mobility issues. So everything about IDEA is about individualization for the child so that they can access education. And
Zac Chase:the piece that most people have probably heard of related to IDEA is an IEP or like a legally binding program to meet the specific needs to make sure that that is in fact an appropriate education for those individual children, right?
Meghan Whittaker:Absolutely. And that IEP is revisited every year. It's designed in partnership with the parents or the caregiver of that child. And it includes goals, measurable goals about what we want to see that child able to accomplish. And it also includes all of the specific supports, accommodations or services that that child needs, including things like technology, assistive technology or other devices to make education accessible. So that IEP is kind of the guiding document that helps to design the education.
Zac Chase:One of the things I've heard people say about IEPs in the past is like, oh, man, every kid should have one of those. And I don't disagree with that. But it is important to know that IDEA makes sure that the kids for whom it is necessary get the services that they need. It would be great if we had an individualized education program for every kid. And many schools are working to do that. But this legislation says for the kids who could otherwise fall through the cracks– This is that backstop.
Meghan Whittaker:Exactly. The goal is to give access to general curriculum to every child. And some children will need more support to access that general curriculum. So the IEP is what's intended to do that. And the goal is to help every child meet the same expectations, meet the same standards. And really importantly, special education is not a place. It is instruction. It is services. And it's how we support kids, ideally, in school. an environment with their non-disabled peers.
Zac Chase:How many kids are we talking about? Five or six across the country?
Meghan Whittaker:We are talking about over 7 million. So 7.5 million children. It seems to kind of tick upwards every year. And that's about 15% of all students in our public schools. Really, it comes down to children with disabilities are in every single school, very likely in every classroom across the country. And there's a wide variety of disabilities that are included under IDEA and a wide variety of things that might make a child eligible for these services. There's 13 categories in IDEA, everything from speech and language disorders, learning disabilities, autism, behavioral disabilities. And so no two children are the same and they are your neighbors. They're at every single classroom. And so it's really important that we think about how to design learning so everyone can.
Stephanie Melville:I have a question. You mentioned, Megan, that that number that 7.5 million ticks upwards a little bit year over year. And that is a thing that has been in the news as of late. Can you talk maybe a little bit about why that number might tick upwards year over year?
Meghan Whittaker:Absolutely. We've seen the population of students with disabilities shift over the course of decades. It has gone up slowly. So I wouldn't say that there are major upticks, but we are getting better at identifying kids who need supports. And so, you know, the terminology that we have used to describe different kinds of disabilities has changed as we've begun to understand more about those. And you know, IDEA sets these pretty broad parameters for what these 13 categories are. And then states actually define how you go about identifying those kids. And so as we learn more about speech disorders, as we learn more about autism or behavioral needs of students, we're better able to articulate what those are and then put in place the right kinds of evaluation processes to capture kids who have these needs. And so I think by, you know, the, the, as the population of public school students is also growing over those years, so is the population of kids with disabilities, and we're better at identifying them and meeting their needs. So I think that that's kind of a natural progression, is that these numbers will go up as we get better at identifying
Zac Chase:them. So it's not because people are drinking pasteurized milk?
Meghan Whittaker:No, I mean, and there are important things to think about, though, when you think about Flint, Michigan, right, where we have major crises and environmental things that will impact students and their development. So I don't want to discount the fact that there are really significant environmental things that we should be on the lookout for and be mitigating and preventing. But that's not to say that any of these are curable or preventable. It's just it's a complex kind of intersection of things. the brain and behavior and environment.
Zac Chase:So Stephanie and I were classroom teachers. We, as part of our preparation, had an overview. There were requirements for us to understand special education. We also probably care about it more as parents who are thinking these things through. I know you're a parent as well, and it's your life's work. But if I'm not a parent or caregiver... And I don't have it or I don't have a child who qualifies for special education services. Why should I care about IDEA? And we are going to talk about the proposed budget in a second. So I think it's important to say why is this thing important to everybody in the first place before we understand what is being proposed to happen to it?
Meghan Whittaker:And I think it comes back to history and looking at where we were before IDA was passed. So IDA was passed in 1975. It was called the Education for All Handicapped Children Act back then. And before that passed, children with disabilities were not guaranteed an education in this country. There are actually states that had laws that prohibited certain children with disabilities from attending public schools. So if you were blind or deaf or you had an intellectual disability, you might actually be institutionalized instead. And so we have lots of evidence about the pretty horrific conditions that a lot accepting all children with disabilities in public schools and this kind of moral imperative that hey, we really should be ensuring access for all children. So IDEA was really groundbreaking, and I think it's an essential law for anyone who believes that children can learn and that they should have access to the resources that they need to do so. We have seen since the passage of IDEA the incredible benefits of inclusion. Inclusion is really the intentional design of education systems that provide every student access and opportunities and a sense of belonging. We see that students with disabilities achieve at higher rates when they are included alongside their non-disabled peers, we see that they can really meet high expectations when we set them. And we also see that students without disabilities benefit as well. They also experience academic improvements and more social benefits, right? Learning alongside people who aren't like them. And so I think that it's important if we care about the future of our country, the development of all of our students, and the sense of inclusion and belonging in schools, including students with disabilities, is incredibly important. And that is why IDEA exists and why we need to continue to protect it.
Zac Chase:I want to stop because you said something really– you said a number of really important things there. So I'm going to pause and go back. So one of them is around before we said these children need to be in public schools, right? And there is a deep body of documentaries that you can just– get really angry while you watch about how we used to treat children with disabilities. It is part of our country's long history of othering and treating difference as less than human. That progress and what we have seen oftentimes is that the law and statute is sometimes the piece that needs to happen to help shift culture and practice. The other piece there, and I think that this is really worth repeating, is Inclusion has been shown to help all students. Now, we know that research is all over the place. Context matters. Delivery matters, right? So like the best versions of inclusion. Right. Not just putting a student with a disability in a space. Right. But like truly thinking about the design. And there's this piece from the University of New Hampshire says research studies confirm that inclusive classroom environments have numerous widespread benefits for all students. They promote individuality and greater social connections while also providing new learning opportunities. Studies show that inclusive classrooms improve academic performance and social development across the board. And researchers point to better social competencies and communication skills, fewer school absences and incidents of disruptive behavior and increased empathy and compassion toward peers. I love the reason I pull that one is it doesn't say for students with disabilities or students without identified disabilities. It says this is just better for kids. And there are ways that that is done that are really bad where those are not the outcomes. I think we need to Acknowledge that, but in the best practices, I think that that is important. I think it's also really interesting as we were prepping for the episode in 2022 to 2023, according to the US Department of Education website on IDEA, it's still up as of this recording, more than 66% of children with disabilities were in general education classrooms, 80% or more of their school day and early intervention, which we haven't really talked about yet. Services were provided for more than 441,000 infants and toddlers with disabilities and their families. That is... In 50 years, we have moved from you're not allowed to go to school to 66% of students with identified disabilities being in an inclusive environment for 80% or more of their day. I think that's just fascinating to look at the progress that we've made. I wonder if we're going to do anything that will dismantle that progress and harm children.
Meghan Whittaker:Let's find out. Well, and I also want to say that that is incredible progress. But as you said, inclusion is not easy to do, right? It's more than just putting a kid in a classroom and teaching around them. You have to make sure they truly can engage and be successful in their learning. And so While I appreciate this statistic, I also think it's really important that we dig deeper and we haven't really had a good opportunity to do this yet, but to know what kind of environments are those kids, those 66% of kids in, are they truly being included in the 80% of time or is there more we can do to ensure their inclusion? But I do think that that is an important kind of milestone to celebrate and we need continued progress to make sure that that 60% of kids are meaningfully being included.
Stephanie Melville:Yeah.
Zac Chase:When we do our entire episode on inclusion, we'll have you come back because I think it's also important to think through how we talk about the students who don't have identified disabilities who are in that inclusive space. Because I think oftentimes we put all of that responsibility on the student with an IEP versus saying, oh, how do we build community here? But that is not the conversation we're having right now. So IDEA doesn't just say you have to do these things. It also... Does some of these things. Can you take us through like what the law does? What are the parts? What are the major parts of IDEA?
Meghan Whittaker:Yeah. So I would say two major roles that the Department of Education plays and they correspond to the two major parts of IDEA. So IDEA. by and large, sets kind of these guardrails, lay out the rules for how states and districts have to serve children with disabilities. So everything from determining who is eligible to laying out the process for actually developing and approving that individualized education program to outlining the rights of parents, right? All of those details about the education of children with disabilities are outlined in IDEA. And the Department of Education has a role to oversee and kind of monitor states on all of those rules. And the second major part.
Zac Chase:Pause for a second there. I think this is important because the administration has repeatedly said, let's send this back to the states. And I think it is important to say that before the U.S. Department of Education and IDEA, the states did not do this.
Meghan Whittaker:Absolutely. And so,
Zac Chase:yes. So they're not like, please give us back this responsibility for enforcing special education policy. They have never done that before. except for states that may have their own statutes now on the book. And where they didn't do it, they really didn't do it. Yeah,
Meghan Whittaker:absolutely. So that oversight is a major part of what the Department of Education is responsible for. And I think I would love to continue talking about that as we continue. But the other major function here is funding. So in order to do all of this work, IDEA is a formula grant program, right? It has... grants to states, and there's three parts that I'll talk about, but essentially it gives $15 billion every year to states. That money also then goes down to districts to implement this law. So we have what we call the Part C program, formula program that goes to whichever agency in your state that oversees early intervention. In some states, it's the Department of Education. In some states, it's the Health and Human Services Agency. But Part C covers our babies up until age two. And the folks that support Part C are going into homes or going into daycare centers and really working directly with these babies and helping their families also learn skills to support the development of these children. And then we have our part C, which is broken out, or I'm sorry, part B, which is broken out into one program for preschool. So helping to support children ages three to five. And then our grants to states, which are ages 6 to 21. So we basically just split IDA by age, and that $15 billion goes annually to support the program. So the Department of Ed is responsible for getting that money out to states and then supporting them in overseeing and monitoring to make sure that they're following the rules. But one really important big part of this program that's going to, you'll kind of see why it's so important that we don't leave it out right now, is because it's not a formula grant program. Part D is actually competitive grants. It's called national activities. And these competitive grants don't go directly to states or to districts. They actually go to a whole bunch of other entities. It could be universities, it could be nonprofits, but they provide programs such as personnel preparation and development programs, or these parent centers that actually provide resources and information to parents or technical assistance centers that operate independently of the Department of Education, but support states in meeting the obligations under the law. And then they also fund some ed tech and media grant programs, which really kind of spur innovation in accessibility and technology. So these are separate grant programs that are competitive, that are also a major part of IDEA and the contributions to kind of keep the field moving and innovative and continuing to support children as best we can.
Zac Chase:So the way to think of it is like, there's this bucket of money that is formula money that says, how do we reach in and help the kid, the kids and the parents kind of more high, high touch, interactive. And then there's this other stream of funding that says, how do we help the field develop better resources to help those people help those kids?
Meghan Whittaker:Exactly.
Zac Chase:Yep. Okay. And how much money did you say goes to states?
Meghan Whittaker:So IDEA is about $15 billion in total for all of these programs.
Zac Chase:Okay. So that's not to the birth through 21, but that's all of IDEA funding is $15 billion. And if you take $7.5 million and divide $15 billion by that, that's just $2,000 a kit. Yes. And that's for all of it. That's not separating the programs. That's like the discretionary grants. They're the competitive grants. That's... We're talking about $2,000 a kid.
Meghan Whittaker:Which is, if you know anything about the cost of education, that is not enough to actually cover the cost of education. So it's about 10% of what it actually costs to educate a child with a disability. And, you know, I think we all know that state and local governments essentially pay for the bulk of education in this country. And the same is true for special education. Right. And most of the IDA funds that are given to states and districts actually go towards special education teacher salaries or the salaries of other professionals that support kids with disabilities. And when IDA was passed in the 70s, and actually I think this might have been a later amendment to IDA, but it laid out this promise that said that the federal government would cover 40% of what it costs to educate a child with a disability compared to their peers. So that extra cost... of special education. And we have never gotten close to getting that, what we call full funding, that full-
Zac Chase:So we're at 10%? About
Meghan Whittaker:10%? We've covered between 10 and 20% depending on the year in the last like two decades. And right now we're at about 10%.
Stephanie Melville:Yeah. That checks. That's just stupid.
Meghan Whittaker:And it's unfortunate because we know that schools really desperately need more funding. And it's also unfortunate for the dynamic that it kind of adds to the advocacy around funding because oftentimes people see special education as like those kids who need so much more. They're so expensive. And I think it's really troubling when– You know, people say, well, if you don't fully fund IDEA, then we have to take money from other kids to pay for special education. And it makes an unfortunate dynamic around inclusion and why it's so important that we support all kids. And so, you know, we would continue to push every year for full funding of IDEA. But it really needs to be seen as just the total cost of educating all kids.
Zac Chase:Yeah. Especially when we know that if we do it right, everybody benefits. That's weird. Okay.
Stephanie Melville:Yeah.
Zac Chase:Okay. Stephanie, I feel pretty up to speed about IDEA. Totally. Totally. So it's doing great things. We've made tremendous progress. We've never seen Congress make good on their promise. That's weird. That's never happened before. I guess they get one. So enter the skinny budget. This has proposed some changes that might not be legal as the law is now, but help us understand what is this new budget proposed, this skinny budget, this light on details budget say they want to do with special education?
Meghan Whittaker:Yeah, it is absolutely light on details, which makes it hard to really know what they're trying to do and whether any of it is legal. So in what I have seen where they describe the changes that they would like to make to IDEA or to special education, They basically say that they are consolidating seven programs under IDEA. But as I count them, there are eight programs of the ones I described to you, the three that go to states. And then there are five more total under Part D. I don't know which seven they are consolidating. And so that's kind of my first question. And
Zac Chase:as a former chief of staff for the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services, you know a little bit about what you're talking about right now.
Meghan Whittaker:Yeah. If you look back at every administration's budget justification, right, every president puts out their plan and how they would like Congress to fund the government. And Every time you see the same eight programs listed under special education. So I don't know which seven they're focusing on or if maybe there's one that they've picked out that they're going to protect. But they've said they're going to consolidate seven of the eight.
Zac Chase:Maybe that was the FBI's budget because I know they were having trouble finding it. So maybe they just threw that in.
Meghan Whittaker:It wouldn't be the first time they tried to take our funds to support other programs.
Zac Chase:All right. So they want to consolidate all the piles of money. Yeah. that have historically said, this is for zero to two, this is for three to five, this is okay.
Meghan Whittaker:And I'll get a little technical for one minute because the entitlement of IDEA is a little different for the babies compared to the Part B program, right? So Part B is a guarantee if you are an eligible child with a disability, you get a free appropriate public education, right? The rules around Part C, and I will not claim to be an expert in them, but the rules around Part C are that they have to make available to you. So it's a little bit less of a guarantee. And so I worry that when you don't explicitly provide that money to states for an already stretched thin program, which is our Part C program, and you just give everybody a big bucket of money. they're probably going to put that money to the program that they have to provide to all eligible kids and perhaps leave out those babies to two because that eligibility is a little squishier. So that's one concern I have about block granting all of these programs. But the second is, is this even legal? Can you just change a discretionary grant program into a formula grant program? I'm not an expert on budget or appropriations, but I'm pretty sure that IDEA's language, the statutory language, lays out Part B, Part C, and then Part D. And then if you're going to change Part D from discretionary to formula, you'd have to amend the law. So I don't know that what they're suggesting is actually legal to begin with.
Zac Chase:That hasn't stopped us so far.
Stephanie Melville:Yeah.
Meghan Whittaker:Let's assume that it is legal and that they're going to move forward with this, which hopefully Congress will not agree to. There's a lot that we could lose here. These discretionary grant programs are really critical to the field. I mentioned the Personnel Preparation and Development Program. These are funds that go to universities to help cover the cost of tuition and stipends for preparing and training new professionals. Special education is a high need area. We have had shortages in special education for decades. And so these programs train early childhood related service providers and specialty areas like working with deaf or blind students. And so it's really important that we continue to provide these funding to make sure we have a steady pipeline of educators continuing to enter the field and to continue to train educators at the university level. We know that every, almost every state has shortages of special educators and almost every school struggles to fill those vacancies. So that personnel prep program would, would really, it would really hurt the field if we just combined all of that into a formula
Zac Chase:grant. And so if we, if we just gave, state's a big old, not a big old, but just a pile of money. I think it's really helpful to think through. They're probably going to do the things that they have to do.
Stephanie Melville:Right. Right.
Zac Chase:And maybe not as much the things that they could or should do. And maybe they don't necessarily have the mechanisms at the state level. Again, handing things back to the states that the states never had. Maybe they don't have a mechanism at at the state level to give specific grants to students who are training to be special education teachers. So I'm not saying that there's ever a danger that people don't want to be teachers because people are flocking to universities to be teachers. We've made it look real sexy. But go with me here. Maybe they're not as interested in being teachers for a minute and we are taking away some kind of financial support for those who are are deciding to do it. And I will say it is a deeply personal thing. Every special education teacher I've ever had the privilege of work with, it was a personal drive. And that's great, but not enough to feed a family or pay your rent. Right. So maybe we should think about that. Okay. So this is getting bad. Yeah. Anything else we should worry about, Megan?
Meghan Whittaker:So also in those part-day discretionary grant programs are the parent training centers. And IDA funds about 100 parent centers around the country, at least one in every single state. So if you are a parent who is like, I think there's something going on with my child. I'm not really sure how to support them. You could go to a parent center. And those are run by the states? No, these are run by nonprofits or other entities who compete to get these grants to run these parent centers. So they are not affiliated with the states and they are kind of an independent organization that parents can seek support from.
Zac Chase:Okay, but that's the worst thing that can happen. There's no other bad news, right?
Meghan Whittaker:Well, the only other piece that I would mention in the Part D program are the technical assistance centers. So I mentioned that the Department of Education has the responsibility of overseeing and kind of monitoring state compliance with all of these rules that IDEA puts on them. And these technical assistance centers are, again, kind of independent entities funded by the department to help states with complicated things like data collection or specific issues like supporting student behavior or providing intensive intervention. So these are outside experts that create kind of a hub and repositories of information and really are able to work one-on-one with states to help them address issues that they are facing. So, you know, we often put out guidance and policy documents as a department, but these technical assistance centers work kind of in a closer relationship with the states to tackle hard problems. So that resource would be gone and would leave states without necessary support.
Zac Chase:But a state could get their money and decide they would fund the centers.
Meghan Whittaker:They could, but when you're only getting about 10% of the cost of special education, I can't imagine you would spend the money on anything else.
Zac Chase:Okay. Well, at least there are still people at the U.S. Department of Education. When we have a problem, like if a state or a district is out of compliance, at least there are people in the Office for Civil Rights to whom we can turn. Well,
Meghan Whittaker:that's another challenge.
Zac Chase:This is as frustrating as learning about Supreme Court decisions with John Becker. But please go on.
Meghan Whittaker:When the Department of Education executed their reduction in force a couple of months ago now, they... Absolutely preserved the program staff who work on IDEA, which was really nice to see that the department is making good on their promise to protect this really important program. Except what they did do was cut every attorney from the Office of General Counsel. that had any expertise in IDEA. So whenever we monitor states, whenever we put out, we send them letters about our findings or whenever we want to issue corrective action plans, all of that is done in partnership with the attorneys who are experts on IDEA. And so while certainly the program staff can continue to work with states and do their monitoring, there has been a I guess it's a major hindrance that now we don't have any legal experts to kind of sign off on all of those materials and make sure that the Department of Education is working within the bounds of the law. So I guess what you could see is that there will be maybe less monitoring, less teeth to the monitoring. We have to see kind of where this goes, but a major resource for OSERS has been removed with the RIF affecting general counsel.
Stephanie Melville:It feels like if you were to take it down to like a classroom level, asking a math teacher to teach a history lesson, right? You have almost like this warm body mentality of your area of expertise doesn't matter, right? you can just do the job because you hold the qualifications sort of to do it. Right.
Meghan Whittaker:You're a lawyer. You can sign this document. Yeah, exactly.
Stephanie Melville:Yeah. So
Zac Chase:like if I'm accused of murder, I'm not going to go to a tax attorney to defend me.
Stephanie Melville:Right. Right. And I just did the, the whole thing that you were talking about earlier.
Zac Chase:I did any murders. I just, uh,
Stephanie Melville:Just throw that out there just for clarification.
Zac Chase:I should have said like, if Stephanie is accused of murder,
Stephanie Melville:we can't talk about me. It's fine. No, it just, it kind of reminds me of when I was in the classroom and I was a math teacher and I had students with disabilities who had IEPs and I would have co-teachers or parent educators or, you know, whatever it was. And they'd come into my classroom and some of them would just be in tears because they couldn't, provide support services to the students. And when I would go to our vice principal or your assistant principal, whatever your terminology is, I would go to them and I would say, hey, I need somebody who can help my high school students. And the VP would say, no, what you need is a warm body. And it's just infuriating.
Zac Chase:Heavy sigh.
Stephanie Melville:Yeah. Okay.
Meghan Whittaker:Any other great news for us, Megan? So I think there's another concern here. When I look at, again, the very light on details, very short description of the priorities around IDEA for this administration, they also make a statement about how they will maintain a base of federal funds that can be withdrawn from states and districts who float parental rights. And I think there was another kind of line in there about parents directing the funding, right? So that kind of sets some red flags when I read it because, you know, IDEA is premised on parents being a member of the team and it clearly carves out rights for parents, right? There is no part of IDEA that isn't really heavy on making sure parents are part of this process. But to me, this administration is making good on their promise to really push towards parent choice and private schools and vouchers. And that worries me for a lot of reasons because currently the way that they describe it, saying they're going to maintain the parents' ability to direct funds, that's not really how IDA works. Right now, the way that the system works is that districts have to have a continuum of services. And if you're not happy or if your child is not able to succeed in the setting that they're in, there's a whole process to engage with the district. to move them to a different setting if appropriate. And if it comes down to the point where your child needs a private school to meet their needs, the district would pay for that, right? So there is a mechanism for children to attend private schools under IDEA if appropriate. Parents can also take their children out of public schools and just go to a private school independent of the school district and pay for that separately. And I worry that this move to block grant funds will be their attempt to give the $2,000 a student that Zach calculated earlier to parents to say, if you don't like your public school, take your $2,000 in IDA funding and go elsewhere. Because not only is that never going to be enough to get you the kind of school you may need for your child with a disability, but But you do not have the same rights under IDEA in a private school that you do in a public school. There is a kind of complex part of the regulation that talks about equitable services and proportionate share of IDEA funding. But ultimately, what that comes down to is that private schools get a little bit of money. provide some kind of service to all their kids, but you don't get an IEP and you don't get FAPE if you go to a private school. So there's no obligation for those private schools to even take you if you try to show up with your $2,000 voucher. And if you do get in there, there's no right to FAPE, to the IEP that you deserve or to any of the supports that you need. And we have seen historically in states that have voucher programs for kids with disabilities, A lot of kids with disabilities get turned away because the school doesn't even want to try to support them. And it essentially becomes a coupon for families who can afford a private school. And it sends every other kid who doesn't have enough money back into the public school with more significant needs and not enough money for the school district to pay for them. So that is kind of my concern about where this is going and how it would play out if they tried to turn this into a voucher scheme.
Stephanie Melville:Can I rephrase what you're saying or like revoice what you're saying to make sure that I understand that last little component? So if we go into a voucher system and I want to send my kid to a private school, first of all, there's no guarantee that that private school will accept my child.
Meghan Whittaker:Correct.
Stephanie Melville:And if my child creates enough of a quote problem for them, that's all they need is to say you're no longer welcome at this school. And so now,
Zac Chase:sorry, I think it's also important at the beginning at the application process, they might look at, like, if you bring the IEP, they might say, we actually don't have the resources necessary to meet your child's needs, which would be a, a valid point, right? Like that is, that is, that is their right to do and probably better for your student to know ahead of time. We don't have the resources. We don't have an occupational therapist on staff, to give an example. So that's an okay thing to say. I would rather know that now. But then, yes, the other pieces, they say, oh, we've got the resources. And then if the demands of your child for their education are too high, they do have the right to say you need to go somewhere else because we, again, can't meet your needs.
Stephanie Melville:Right. And so then... Because the voucher was used, I suppose, at this private school, that doesn't get deposited, maybe, I suppose, toward the public school's budget?
Meghan Whittaker:Right. You'd have to think about kids who start in one school and go back to another, the financial logistics of that. But the bigger picture, the bigger impact is... a big number of kids with disabilities might be leaving the public school to go to these private schools and taking their, let's say, $2,000 with them, which just reduces the amount that the public school has to work with in general, right? So you have an under-resourced school, probably left with some of the higher-need students, and all due to the voucher system.
Zac Chase:And we have eliminated direct funding to any parental assistance centers or technical assistance centers so that we have made sure that if I'm a parent who's trying to navigate that system, there's not necessarily any federal place that I can go to. And we haven't necessarily created a crop of teachers who want to go into special education. So the resources to support those students, whether in a public or private school, are less.
Stephanie Melville:Right. And we don't have the legal support systems available. to make sure that schools are doing what they're supposed to be doing.
Meghan Whittaker:And I didn't touch on that in the list of what else have they done, but... No, you can't add more
Zac Chase:now. The
Meghan Whittaker:IDA lays out a number of mechanisms for parents who want to file a complaint or a grievance about their rights, whether their child's not getting the services that they need or they disagree with the school. There's a due process system at the state level, district and state level, that parents can follow. At the federal level, though, the Department of Education works directly with states about state obligations. And so the recourse for parents who have a complainer on IDEA is essentially to submit a complaint to the Office for Civil Rights. And the Office for Civil Rights will investigate instances of disability discrimination at the local level. And with the rifts a couple of months ago, they cut the Office for Civil Rights in about half. And so there is a much smaller number of attorneys left to work on these cases. And I want to say about half of all of the complaints received by the Office for Civil Rights are related to disability discrimination. So we're not only taking away the parent training centers in a block grant kind of situation, but we're really reducing the recourse that parents have at the federal level if they want to take issue with what's going on in their district.
Stephanie Melville:Please tell me there's nothing left.
Meghan Whittaker:That's all I've got on my list for today.
Zac Chase:There's that part where they're going to take all the puppies and just throw them in a river. Yeah,
Stephanie Melville:right? Good Lord.
Meghan Whittaker:But I really want to say, the messaging around IDEA from the beginning of this administration has been, we're going to protect this program. We're going to protect parent rights. We're going to protect special education and people with disabilities. And then all of these steps that they have taken right in, On its face, this all looks like, oh, you're preserving IDEA. You're turning it into a block grant, but you're preserving IDEA at the same funding level. And it's really not until you look under the hood and really think about the policy changes that they're proposing that you would even really get to any of these really concerning ideas that are coming up.
Zac Chase:Okay. So everything is horrible. Nothing is good. It's a horrible, no good, very bad day in Australia. Or... Thank you so much for joining us. Everybody knows somebody who is or who benefited from it because it's been around for 50 years. There are still things people can do. What can people do now to help some of our most vulnerable children in the country?
Meghan Whittaker:I think at the most basic level, continuing to share stories, right? So that you... People realize that they know somebody who knows somebody that's affected by this, right? Making this a really human to human issue is important in educating members of Congress or local decision makers about why this is so important. I think education is a first step. At the federal level, there have been bills to fully fund IDEA for probably decades now. They don't always make it very far each congressional session, but every year they are reintroduced and they would put IDEA on a path to that 40% of funding that was promised. So asking your members of Congress to support those bills and to help them understand why they're so important is something you can do at the federal level. Locally and at your state level, I think it's really important to know about whether your state has a voucher program. And if not, get involved in the advocacy to ensure that decision makers understand why this could be problematic and harmful to the public school ecosystem as a whole, and specifically to children with disabilities who may lose their rights and may also be turned away from schools. So those are a couple of steps I think you can take in the advocacy space, but educating others, helping them learn more about this, I think is one of the most, the simplest things you can do.
Zac Chase:And reaching out to your congressperson, right? And letting them know this matters to you, this matters to your family, to your niece, your nephew, that these are kids who deserve a free and appropriate public education and for whom that may be impossible without this support. I feel like I'm running an NPR telethon right now. We will, as always, when we sign off, tell you, please, you know, Subscribe to the podcast, rate the podcast. I would also, maybe we'll say that's, we've done it now. So like the, subscribe to the podcast, rate the podcast. But I would implore you to share this episode with folks who you think need to better understand special education and how it happens in this country. And if you are somebody who isn't sure how to have the conversation, but you know your kids or kids you care about are impacted by this, share this episode so they can get a better understanding. Megan, Thank you for spending this time with us. Thank you for helping us to understand these things. We will need to talk about inclusion later.
Stephanie Melville:Definitely.
Zac Chase:We'll talk to you then.
Stephanie Melville:Keep your inbox. Keep an eye on your inbox, please.
Meghan Whittaker:Thank you for having me. This issue is so important and I will take every opportunity I can to talk about it. So thanks.
Stephanie Melville:Thank you.
Zac Chase:So for Academic Distinctions, I'm Zach Chase.
Stephanie Melville:I'm Stephanie Melville.
Zac Chase:Please make sure you subscribe, make sure you rate, and share this particular episode with folks so we can make sure all kids have a chance to learn.
