Milk & Honeys
Milk & Honeys" is the perfect blend of raw industry insights and unfiltered realness. Like the ingredients that sweeten and smooth out a cup of tea, hosts Kayla Becker (TV host of 10 years) and Vanessa Curry (model and actress of 10 years) bring their own flavors to the conversation— Together, they spill the tea on what it really takes to live and thrive in LA’s entertainment scene.
So, grab a mug and sip on some Milk & Honeys—because we’re serving the tea with all the right ingredients.
Milk & Honeys
Episode 7: The Fall of Favre: Jenn Sterger's Journey from Scandal to Stand-Up
What happens when your life gets turned upside down in the public eye because someone else made a terrible choice? Jen Sterger knows this reality all too well. Once known as the "FSU Cowgirl" who rose to prominence in sports media, Sterger's career trajectory changed forever when she became the unwilling centerpiece of Brett Favre's texting scandal while working for the New York Jets.
In this powerful conversation, Sterger opens up about her journey from being a young woman thrust into sudden fame to navigating the aftermath of a high-profile scandal where she was simultaneously victimized and vilified. With remarkable candor, she details how the very institutions that should have protected her – the NFL, her network, and the sports media ecosystem – instead treated her as the problem. "If you want to keep your job, be quiet" was the message she received time and again when attempting to speak her truth.
The turning point in Sterger's story came through comedy, catalyzed by advice from the legendary Norm MacDonald: "The sooner you can own this and make something from it, no one will be able to hurt you with it anymore." That insight led her to stand-up comedy, where she finally found the platform to tell her story on her own terms. As Sterger poignantly observes, "I think the most dangerous woman is the one with nothing to lose" – and through rebuilding her career independently, she's reclaimed her narrative and her power.
Sterger's message to women who've faced similar experiences in male-dominated industries resonates beyond the sports world: "What happened to them mattered, their stories matter." Her journey from victim to advocate represents a new model of resilience – not just surviving trauma, but transforming it into purpose and using it to help others find their voice. Subscribe now to hear this unforgettable conversation about accountability, healing, and the power of owning your story.
Hi everyone, welcome back to Milk and Honey. Today we're diving deep with someone whose story goes far beyond the headlines. She's a comedian now, but before she found her voice on stage, she was in the eye of a media storm that shook the sports world and changed her life forever. Jen Sturger first rose to fame as the so-called FSU cowgirl, but her journey took an unexpected turn when she became the target of one of the NFL's most notorious scandals. She's the centerpiece of the new Netflix documentary Untold the Fall of Favre, which shines a long overdue light in what she went through and what it cost her. Jen, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 2:No, thank you so much for having me. It's always easier to have these conversations with people you consider friends.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, and normally you know, we do have a lot of lighthearted conversations Again, you know, with comedy, oh we'll still make this lighthearted. And that's why you're.
Speaker 2:I've done enough therapy around it now where I can, I can honestly say um watching the doc come out. It felt like a moment of completion.
Speaker 1:You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean when I was like okay, I finally feel like I've said my piece. Uh, the truth is out there. Um, not to get too X-Files-y but like the truth is out there, and if people just want to ignore the truth, that's on them now. But, like I've said, what I'm going to say about this, you know what I mean Period so.
Speaker 1:I think when you have a chance to finally get that closure for yourself, you can start to make fun of it again, which is honestly what my whole comedy journey has been about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we're going to get into that, but I want to kind of rewind all the way back to kind of the beginning of of little god. You know where you grew up, how you grew up. Well, when you guys were in middle school, I was kind of a big deal no, I'm joking but for real, how you're not an environment kind of shaped your dreams and ambitions this one it could have how you knew, like you know, what you wanted to do when you grew up.
Speaker 1:Uh, look, I think.
Speaker 2:I've always wanted to be in entertainment in some capacity and I was always a really funny kid. But I didn't know how I was funny. I was just kind of the person that said what everyone else in the room was thinking, and then I sort of fell into this sports niche. I got into sports because I was in marching band and I needed to like learn enough about football to know when we could play uh because I was in charge of the band.
Speaker 2:I was the drum major um you know, like king of the dorks I took on clarinet and I got kicked out of the band.
Speaker 1:You know if you ever played clarinet and if you blow it wrong. Wow what that duck noise I couldn't get past the duck noise. So they're like maybe you just go and cheer yeah, like maybe you should be in color guard go twirl in the corner.
Speaker 2:No instruments for kayla okay oh yeah, but I, I, you know, I had to learn sports that way. And then when I went to college, college I was a double major. I was a criminology psychology double major because I wanted to work in like forensic psychology or something like that. Wow, what was the reason for that Was it you're just going to work with really fucked up people. And now you're in comedy and you work with really fucked up people.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I think that my psychology degree also was just a way of. I've always been fascinated with how humans work and I never felt like I was really understood in my life and I didn't understand the people around me. So I felt like, hey, if I study this, maybe I'll figure some stuff out. I still have not, but you know, I do think that my degrees really helped me out now because it really helps me understand audiences and like how to connect with people. Yeah, helps me understand audiences and like how to connect with people. Yeah, but um, but yeah, I was. I was in college and I was dating this guy and he was a sports management major and he was like if you help me with my homework, we can hang out.
Speaker 2:And I was like okay, so I helped him with his homework and it was, uh, making a football playbook, and so I basically played a bunch of NCAA football video games Stop, and I taught myself football, Wow, and taught myself sports and I was like, oh, when you know about sports, dudes like you. Yes dudes like you. Yes, and I was like I wasn't trying to be a pick me, I was just trying to have someone pick me, you know like I just wanted to date somebody and, um, and yeah, that really sports was just a way of connection.
Speaker 2:It was also a way of connection with my dad back in the day, you know, because, like, if you, if you have a dad that uh always wanted a son and you're the first born, um, odds are you are the son, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Mean Like you're going to be raised as a son.
Speaker 2:We're like she's going to be good at softball.
Speaker 3:He's going to get you that mint and be like come on, let's go play some catch. You're like okay, I was like nope.
Speaker 2:I'm at piano recitals. Son of a bitch, but yeah, that's kind of how I got into sports, was I just had this? You know this background and wanting to connect with people, with them. I love that.
Speaker 3:You first came into the national spotlight during your first or your time at Florida State University. What was it like to suddenly become FSU cowgirl famous practically literally overnight. It was surreal.
Speaker 2:It was very surreal.
Speaker 1:Like Pam Anderson, you know like exactly like pam anderson.
Speaker 2:Um, and I and I bring that up all the time but, um, yeah, it was. It was interesting because this was a time back when message boards were a big thing and that was. It was like the beginning of the internet. Um, don't nod, like you were there. You were, were too young.
Speaker 3:Oh, no you guys were in the AOL chat rooms. I was in the wild. Okay, you're right, we did have AOL, I did have AOL.
Speaker 1:We interviewed a girl who's about 15 years younger than us, and she was always raised with the internet, so it's funny to see the difference.
Speaker 3:Yes, You're right, we're much younger.
Speaker 2:I definitely was grounded for being in chats.
Speaker 1:I should probably shouldn't sorry mom and dad.
Speaker 2:he's like you're gonna end up on how to catch a predator. But yeah, it was. It was so surreal because I saw my pictures on these message boards and the things people would say about me were like she doesn't even go here and like, uh, but that one guy said that I think she's a stripper that's just pretending to be a student and I was like I wish I made that much money, um, but yeah, they uh. I got on these message boards to like defend myself and it's like I gave her a voice and I was like I'm more than just a picture and yeah, and it just kind of snowballed from there and then, like I guess a month after I got discovered, or a month and a half after I got discovered, playboy was doing castings, uh, for the top 10 party schools edition at florida state, and so they found me and then the week after I shot, playboy, maxim called and they were like that's great and how old were you at this time, I'm like 22, like what the?
Speaker 1:hell does a 22 year old know how to like handle all of?
Speaker 2:this amazing we don't that's the problem.
Speaker 1:I remember you remember back this is so embarrassing, but you remember back when, like on craigslist or whatever, you find castings for like someone looking for, like a model they can take photos of yes and I fell victim to that because I was like I want to be. I want to be a model. So then you respond to these Craigslist ads and you end up in some weird dude's basement yeah, but like you're actually getting these legitimate publications reaching out to you.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing is like people will be like do you regret doing Playboy? And sometimes I do, but like I realize you know you can't say I wish I wouldn't have done that, because if you don't do any of the things that you did to get you to where you are, it's like where do you?
Speaker 2:you know you don't, maybe you don't end up in the same place you do absolutely right but like back at the time, playboy was considered to be like you were being as validated as possible of being a beautiful woman. Yes, and so I saw this as like I never seen myself as being beautiful, like conventionally pretty, and I just gone through a gnarly breakup and I was like wait till he sees me in this he's like oh, you like this, I'm in that one.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. And look, you know, 22 year old me really needed that validation. You know, 22-year-old me really needed that validation. 42-year-old me is like no girl, we're good. But yeah, it was a very surreal thing how fast everything happened, you know. And then I ended up getting a job at Sports Illustrated.
Speaker 1:Well, and then you know, sports journalism and hosting came out of all of that. How do you think all that influenced that? Is that something that you had thought about doing before?
Speaker 2:No, no, I'm going to be honest. I kind of just wrote the wave with this. Do you know what I mean? It was such a lightning in the bottle experience and I just took every situation as it came to me and every opportunity as it came to me and was like, does this propel me forward without compromising my morals? You know, because I did experience backlash from doing the playboy thing. You know, I I had this one meeting at ESPN for a gig and the guy I met with at like this really nice restaurant in New York, he put my playboy in the middle of a table and he goes do you think this is appropriate?
Speaker 1:do you think what you're doing is appropriate.
Speaker 2:I said you putting my magazine? With me naked in the middle of a public space. No, I don't think it's appropriate good for you yeah girl, I've never been the type that's ever backed down until the far thing happened like. And it was because I experienced so much quiet backlash, um for standing up for myself at espn that I think when it happened again I was just like oh, I must be the problem you know what I mean and, like it really tapped into some, some deeper stuff for me well, we're gonna get into that with the far stuff.
Speaker 1:You know, we saw, you saw everything kind of shift because of of the scandal, um, and I know to this day that's such a defining chapter in your story completely took your life in a different uh direction. But you know people who have seen the far documentary got to hear from you, loved hearing you know you and I have never sat and talked about it in that you know, magnitude.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy I got to. I know she watched it as well, but in your own words and you know things that maybe didn't make it into the documentary. For whatever reason, Thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you. It's very weird. I I had a situation in high school one time and I it led to a um restraining order to another person and my sister. This is when, like my space was around right. So my sister, who is nine years older than I am, knew what was going on and knew what was being said like death threats, egging my parents' house, things like that and she printed out everything that was said on MySpace, put it in a binder and we went to court, just handed the judge the binder. The judge opened it, flipped through maybe two pages and said I don't even need to hear anything else, you get your restraining order.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, and if we didn't have that, we would have had to be going back and forth back and forth. But yeah, that's why you document and you take things in and you print them and you put them away. Or obviously now we have our phones, but you know, back then we didn't, so we'd print everything and yeah, just.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if anybody's ever trying to get you on the phone instead of putting it in text Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not.
Speaker 1:This needs to be in writing and you still have everything currently.
Speaker 2:God, I think. It's like I have it in storage, like in a lot, like in a safety deposit box, and it's like it's like 15 or 17 binders of stuff, because wasn't when I had to hand over all my text and my communications to the NFL. They wanted everything. Not just the stuff that applied to this Right. It was a total invasion of privacy, like it's every social media message. It's every text we didn't have WhatsApp at the time Every email, every phone call log.
Speaker 2:Like they wanted access to a very painful time in my life you know, because I was not just dealing with the stuff at the Jets, I was dealing with getting out of a very abusive relationship, and having to go back and like reread all those texts with NFL investigators was just such a violating experience for lack of a better word and especially when you're just sitting there with men that are like, well, prove, you're not the problem. I finally was like, hey, if you're going to keep talking to me like I'm the issue, I'm going to get up, yeah, and I'm going to leave. And I said, and then it's just going to be three dudes sitting around looking at a picture of another dude's dick. Right, have fun.
Speaker 1:I was like I'm going to step out for a minute. I'm going to step out for a minute. I love a Spitfire gym. I'm going to step out for a minute. I love a Spitfire gym.
Speaker 2:I'm going to step out for a minute and I'm going to like I'll let you guys figure out what you want to do and how you want this to proceed, but I'm like this is not how it's going to go.
Speaker 1:Yep, and when I came back in they were much different, but again it's just I probably expect you to fold because a lot of women, especially at that age, put in that position to fold because Well, because we've been programmed to be nice, of course, and disagreeable.
Speaker 3:I don't cause problems, just you know, nod your head.
Speaker 2:Yes, being a nice girl has gotten me nowhere but in trouble. I'm a good person. You can be a good person and not be a nice person. A nice person lets people walk all over them and doesn't have boundaries. A good person is like I have boundaries but I'm good to people and that's who I want to be. You know and there were just these glimmers of it during the whole investigation that where I'm like, where I finally would just give up being the nice girl and I would finally stand up for myself and like. Those are the moments where I look back and I'm like I'm proud. I'm proud of myself for doing that Right, because being a nice girl wasn't going to get me anywhere.
Speaker 1:How did the Netflix documentary come come into play? Oh, girl.
Speaker 2:I got approached by like 10 different. It must have I lost count after a while, but it was at least 10 different people and production companies at some point or another pitched this project to me. One of them was like a former producer for mr beast and I was like, yeah, no, what are you gonna do like lock us in?
Speaker 1:a. It's gonna be a game.
Speaker 2:You're gonna lock us in an abandoned plane and they're like get it jets and we'll put me her and bread farm in the plane and then have them do like I was like no no, like it had to be the right person, of course do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:it had to be the right person. Do you know what I mean? It had to be the right person that I knew was going to actually tell my story this time, because I can't tell you how many times over the past decade journalists have been like, don't worry, I'm going to tell your story. And it's like no, they're going to tell the story that services, whatever their agenda is, and not your story. And I think Netflix is the closest thing.
Speaker 2:I don't think it's my entire story, but I think it's the closest thing I've had to getting my whole story out there and hats off to Netflix, because I actually had to do a reshoot with them, because they saw the dailies and the edits from the first interview that I had with them, where I sat for like six hours and they were like this girl is so compelling and so man, and like, honestly, was the canary in the coal mine, you know?
Speaker 2:And we ignored her. Like she warned us who this person was and we ignored her. And so netflix was like we really want to do another shoot with her where we show people that she's a credible witness and that she was just a girl trying to do her job, and so they came back and they did a second round of shoots with me and that's where they really brought in some of my backstories, that people understood who I was, because I think up until then I was just a picture to people. And when you're just a 2D figure or I'm sure you can even relate to this, kayla from working for a bigger entity, your image is so controlled that that's all people know of you. So then when you're like, no, no, I'm actually this 3D person, this 4D person that's out here living in the real world, people are like you know, it doesn't necessarily jive with their beliefs of you.
Speaker 3:When those private messages became public. How did that affect you professionally and personally? I think about especially the professional side.
Speaker 1:I really think about and I fucking like it breaks my heart thinking about it, because I mean working in a place like wwe as a woman how quickly you can be covered up and push aside everything you work for. They don't use you anymore because you didn't do exactly what they said and I just can't imagine especially with the trajectory you were on with your career being an on-air personality. Do you feel like you lost everything in that regard because of this?
Speaker 2:You know, one of the things that really stuck with me is how my situation affected others is how my situation affected others. Like I had my own television show at the time on NBC Sports slash. It was called Versus at the time, but I had my own TV show that I was on a panel of, and the scandal broke at the beginning of October and by the end of October, our show got canceled. And so not only was I out of work, but like got canceled. And so not only was I out of work, but like all everyone was out of work and I had this like deep burden that I had cost all of these people their jobs. And it's not.
Speaker 2:And the thing is is I wanted to talk, like I wanted to clear my name, and I was not allowed to. I asked my, I asked my network. I was like, hey, I'll sit down and have an interview with you guys, I don't care, I have nothing to hide from you guys, and no one would let me speak. And so instead I was like relegated to this side table, this like Tony Reale-esque position, where I was just a peripheral character instead of being on the main desk with like my coworkers and that was like kind of their way of phasing me out.
Speaker 2:You know that's crazy.
Speaker 1:I'm getting so mad, um, and going back to you talking about just how you know dehumanizing it is and how much they dehumanized you, um, just what people don't know what that feels like. Can you expand a little bit about what that, what that feels like? Can you expand a?
Speaker 2:little bit on what that feels like for a person. I really felt it when I finally was exposed to look, this is like back in Twitter's heyday, you know, and you were just not ready for that.
Speaker 2:Many people's not ready for that many people's opinions of you to be shouted at you at full volume and especially with limited facts. So people are just going off. Like when you watch the documentary they show how terribly the media covered it and they were like what's her point in coming out with this now? And it's like I didn't come out with this. I was thrust out with this.
Speaker 1:That was frustrating for me to watch from your perspective. It's like people are like yeah, why is she?
Speaker 3:is she just trying to like get attention? She's trying to get attention.
Speaker 1:You were exposed, you trusted somebody and they fucked you over.
Speaker 2:Yep, and look, that's the part of this that I take full accountability for trusting.
Speaker 3:I trusted the wrong person. I trusted the wrong person.
Speaker 2:You look, aj wasn't a model citizen. Yeah, you know what I mean? Um, and I'd actually had people be like yo. I don't know why you're working with him. He's dangerous and it's just kind of like I don't know. I look at it kind of like the, you know, like the whole tale of like the scorpion and the toad, where, like the scorpion's like hey, I really need to get across this river. You know, and the toad's like bro, you're gonna sting me.
Speaker 3:And he's like no, no, I promise.
Speaker 1:We're good, we're good.
Speaker 2:And then you get halfway across the river and you're like fuck bro why'd you shoot me? That's what yeah, that's it I'm sure that's exactly how it was written for sure, write that story in jim's voice, my my fables book is gonna slap, but yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:uh, it was very much that you know where. It's. Just like I was warned that he wasn't a good person and in my eyes, when I talked AJ about it, it honestly felt validating because I was like, oh, this is the first time I'm being believed, because up until then I had told people what was happening and they would just say to me if you want to keep your job, be quiet, right. If you want to keep your job, be quiet. And this was the first time someone was like, hey, you know, what happened to you was wrong, right. Oh, what a slut. And it was just the wrong person.
Speaker 3:Yes, how did you expect the NFL to react, even though and I know or respond, and how did their response actually impact you? Or is it different to what you expected?
Speaker 1:versus what actually happened. Did you expect them to protect you at all, or did you know? Because I would? I would, I guess, at that time. It's not that I expected them to protect me. Yes, you expect your job, you hope for the best, you hope your job to hear you and understand what's going on, they find you important.
Speaker 3:They want to protect you and you're not an NFL player, but you were an important asset at the NFL at the time.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing With that. I have this character flaw where I hope for the best in people. You know what I mean. Where I'm like, even though I know they're not like, I just I just, even though they're not like they're not perfect beings, I still hope for the best in people. I hope that people are going to do the right thing. And when I say the right thing, it's not like the right thing for business, it's like the morally right thing. Where I'm like, it's like the morally right thing. Where I'm like, hey, like, protect the vulnerable. You know, like, do the right thing. And I should have known better because like, and that's one of the reasons why when I see them like pushing out all the breast cancer stuff and I see them pushing out all the pink jerseys, and I'm like they so desperately want the support and the money from women, from female fans.
Speaker 1:And the fact of the matter is they've shown us time and time again that they don't give a shit about what happens.
Speaker 3:It's so, it's, it's yeah, it's just, they don't care. No, they do no.
Speaker 2:And so that's when I'm like, hey, this is one of those times where I'm like, if women want to make a difference, we got to put our money where our mouth is and not support these type of things. You know what I mean. I haven't really watched a ton of football since I went through this, you know and that sucks because like I love football.
Speaker 2:I watch college football a little bit more because and look, people can get mad about that because, like you know the whole um, nil and like athletes being compensated, and now it's it's not as pure of a game now, but it's like, yeah, but those kids were also being taken advantage of by a shitty system, and I didn't even ask you if we're allowed to cuss on the show, so I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:No, no, we're good. I've said fuck like five times.
Speaker 2:But like college football. You know, back in the day people used to be like I like college football because it's so much more pure and it's like no. That's like no. That's like where we're establishing the rules of how they're supposed to act when they make it Right, and I do feel like we have to start holding people that want to be viewed as heroes to higher standards.
Speaker 1:And that's what I want to get into. That's a perfect segue to my question about freaking Brett Favre, who was hailed as a hero for how many freaking decades? Freaking Brett Favre, who was hailed as a hero for how many freaking decades? And even after his documentary and beyond the stuff that he did to you, the other stuff, you know, scandalous shit that he's done why do you and people are still people still refuse to see him as the person that he is, even after giving all the facts, all the examples of the shit that he's done? Why do you think that some people like him can still get away with being a terrible human being? Is because people still see them as this is a hero, like there's people in WWE who have done some really messed up things, but some people refuse to see it because that is their hero, while people like you face the consequences of doing nothing wrong.
Speaker 2:I think people have a really hard time holding the idea that two things can be true at once.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we tell ourselves stories about athletes and about, you know, celebrities that are important to us. You know what I mean. Like Brett Favre to someone could be a favorite memory that they have with their dad, you know what I mean. Or like the people of Green Bay that they show it. Green Bay was like a place you sent athletes to be punished. It wasn't considered a winning town anymore, it was kind of considered like a banishment, you know, and he gave the people of Green Bay which, by the way, is, I think, the only team that is actually owned by the people Like they own the majority of the team. The team doesn't have a quote unquote. Like owner.
Speaker 2:That adds another layer to it, and so it's like we're invested in this, the town is invested in this, you know um. And so I think he just represents something to them that's like so much bigger than him as a person. And so to have to like, reconcile, like oh, this thing that I've placed on this pedestal is not necessarily the person I thought they were, they just can't, their brain just can't hold those two truths at the same time, you know Right.
Speaker 3:They have to pick. They have to pick one or the other Like.
Speaker 2:I literally just got a DM from somebody, like right before I walked in here, um, and I had called the guy out, um, cause he goes. You're disgusting talking shit about someone who has Parkinson's, oh my God. And I wrote back. I said you know what's disgusting Stealing welfare money, then saying they shouldn't have, let me steal it.
Speaker 1:High five.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh and he wrote me back and he says I wanted to apologize to you. I was just frustrated because he was my hero when I was a kid and you didn't deserve how I spoke to you and you didn't deserve any of this and I hope you can forgive me and I will try to be a better person moving forward.
Speaker 3:Wow, wow. That never happens. That's amazing, that like he actually at least.
Speaker 1:He probably didn't expect you to see it, didn't expect you to respond to it.
Speaker 2:My favorite thing to do to trolls is to go. What were you trying to? It's to get curious, I go. What were you trying to accomplish by saying something that disgusting to a stranger, but you have no idea who they are. What were?
Speaker 3:you trying to accomplish, get curious.
Speaker 2:Don't get combative, get curious and be like what's the end goal here for you? Because so often it's because you're triggering something in them, right? And when you ask them, hey, what's that about? They go uh, uh, uh, I don't know, yep. And then they're like oh, it's about some shit that I have unresolved with something that happened to me, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like I love being that pivotal moment in someone's life that's true when you're like hey, I'm going to force you to go inward and look at some stuff at yourself that you don't like right now.
Speaker 1:You probably changed that family dinner for the week that's right. You have some new things to contribute.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you and I think honestly, the message that we can both gain from this is don't. Why are you on myspace?
Speaker 3:right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Right like nothing, good happens on my nothing good okay, we top 12, top six, top eight like this is brutal trauma.
Speaker 2:This is why we have trauma. We were brutal, we had we something would happen at school and we would go home and we'd be like becky's, not in my topic anymore.
Speaker 3:I always knew when someone was on a breakup because their away message was like something some poem and you're like, oh, Tommy and Jen broke up today.
Speaker 1:You know it's like it was that that
Speaker 3:the mental of it all, you know, was insane. I mean, what, what? What impact do you think that experience had for you when it came to both that that time and those years since? And also like how do you continue to heal from that Cause? This, I know healing is. It's a non-ending journey.
Speaker 3:Right, we're always going to continue to heal. We're always going to have those moments that pop up of trauma, and how do you work through those Cause? Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, you, yeah, I mean, do you do you think that the, you know, sports and entertainment industries have improved when it comes to handling harassment, or do you think it's?
Speaker 2:the same old story? I think it's the same old story I think, it's the same old story and I think they, but I think they try to put lipstick on it by going but look, we have women in positions of power, right? And and they're gonna, they're gonna make sure that things are done right around here for other women and it's like no those are the pick me's.
Speaker 1:That's funny to watch. It's so funny to watch up close too, because it's so transparent yeah.
Speaker 2:You see it every time Pick me's exist in professionals, but when those women do try to help us out.
Speaker 1:All of a sudden they're no longer in office, Right. So weird how that happens.
Speaker 3:The ones, the ones that I I know in a situation, the the one that was always snitching on everybody, making sure other people got in trouble, always going to the boss. Now she's the boss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, makes sense isn't that amazing how that happens? Yeah, it's like are we? Y'all think we're stupid?
Speaker 3:now she's the head honcho. The other boss is retired, probably hates her life, goes home, pops a bunch of pills and chugs it with some vodka and goes about hating herself.
Speaker 1:I feel like we're tapping into some shit, let me readdress myself real quick. Okay, I want to get back into comedy. I want to know when that transition happened Like I feel like a lot of funny people I mean I think I'm kind of funny, but it kind of stems from trauma. Yeah, I know that's like growing up the way I grew up no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Think barstools had so much success is because they they don't take themselves too seriously, right, and they're fun. They just feel like, whether you agree with like all of their principles or not, they're still dudes that like you'd sit at a bar with and have a good time. You know what I mean? And that's the thing is. I just I feel like sports have just always taken themselves too seriously, and so when people are like, would you go back to sports? And it's like that's like asking me if I'd go back to my most abusive boyfriend.
Speaker 3:Right, I'm like no, no, absolutely not. She's grown.
Speaker 2:What's what's been the most rewarding part of performing stand-up.
Speaker 2:It's a really great way to process things that I am dealing with in a way that creates connection with an audience.
Speaker 2:You know, like for the longest time I did not talk about the Favre stuff on stage because it just felt like it was so unrelatable.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and stand-up's all about relation and connection, and I was just like there's no way anyone will ever be able to sympathize or relate to what I went through, and with the documentary coming out, my DMs have shown me otherwise where I'm like oh, this meant a lot to a lot of people, not just me.
Speaker 2:It meant a lot to other people to see someone that was going through something similar finally get the chance to tell their story, and so for me, stand up is just a way of doing that, and that also involves comedy, because comedy is so healing. Being able to laugh, being able to finally laugh about something, is so healing, so healing. And one of the things that I tackle when I talk about it on stage is the concept of the number of women that stepped on my neck to get what they wanted when the most terrible thing happened to me, where they saw my downfall as a chance to step over me as an opportunity I know a few of those too, to step over me and claim it to step over me and claim it, and so I'm using my voice on stage to again remind people that you don't have to do that.
Speaker 2:And again, just call out the injustices, but do it in a way that's funny and poignant. I think the people that are the best at comedy are the ones that are willing to say what everyone else in the room has like thought or felt, but never had the balls to say because it might not be the popular opinion. Right, you know? Right?
Speaker 1:have you had any of those people who stepped on your neck or were terrible to you when all this was happening and didn't believe you and were on your side and I'll see everything come to light and reach out like, hey, I'm, I'm really sorry?
Speaker 2:No, no, no. But you know what? I don't need them to.
Speaker 1:Of course you don't.
Speaker 2:You don't need them to. And here's the thing, kayla. It says so much more that they haven't done the work on themselves to know that they were in the wrong. Do you know what I mean? Of course, and the only time anyone ever makes an apology is when you like. If the only time someone apologizes when you publicly hold them over the coals, that's not an apology. No, that's saving face. That's saving face.
Speaker 3:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:So I'm like, yes, I do. I mean I think you'd rather get like a call like Jen Hay.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Even a text or just something like a hey, Not over a social platform, Someone who posts, like I just saw, like that's obviously for their own personal gain, Like look at me, I've grown so much Also. Clout, clout, clout, clout.
Speaker 2:Yeah, who wants clout from this? This is not fun.
Speaker 1:But people will use it People will use it oh. I know People love to use it. You know people love taking someone else's story and making it about at the time when all this, when all the farve stuff, actually happened. The one that was like the really messed up relationship.
Speaker 2:He like went on his show and he was like yeah, we lived this. And I was like we, we where we? What I was like? Plus, I checked, you were cheating on me with brooke hogan that's when you know my life comes full circle.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:oh my god, where you're. Just like brooke hogan, you know um god and then you mean oh my God, where you're just like we're going. You know God, people and then, you end up working in wrestling later and you're like wow, All these six degrees of.
Speaker 1:I know, wow, what do they call it? The invisible string theory. But actually not in the romantic sense.
Speaker 2:No, but I just thought it was so crazy that the people that took the I can always tell when someone because they'll make the story about that Like oh yeah, I remember that this happened because I was doing this and it's like you weren't like this did not impact your life, no, like you went on and nothing happened to you. This brought my life to a screeching halt and I had to rebuild everything, everything, rebuild everything.
Speaker 2:And it's crazy because now, I think, people are way less likely to underestimate me because I'm like I think the most dangerous woman, is the one with nothing to lose, and I've built my career now where people can't take it from me because and that's what you have to do I think so many people, when they work for like bigger companies, like, like you know, these, these networks and entertainment companies, they think that they get accustomed to like getting their role handed to them and they don't realize, like when you leave, it's like you're going to have to create a whole life for yourself, but it's going to be a grind and you have to be willing to put that work in and create those avenues for yourself to get seen, to get noticed, and then opportunities can come to you.
Speaker 2:But I feel like there's something so much more powerful about maintaining your own like flexibility. I guess is like a good way, or like being able to like pick and choose what opportunities work for you because you're your own boss, right, like that's just so much more fulfilling to me Amen Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I know you haven't spoken to Favre.
Speaker 2:Never.
Speaker 1:I just wonder if you're going to, out of my own curiosity, any feedback that he's going to trickle down to you of what he thought about, because he probably thought this was going to go away.
Speaker 3:This has been many years since all this happened, I've never come out, ever again.
Speaker 1:Netflix documentary.
Speaker 3:We're talking Netflix, we. And then bam, netflix documentary. We're talking Netflix. We're not talking about Mr Beast producer show. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I know there was an email that was sent that was like I can't believe you guys are making this and if so-and-so was in charge, this would have never happened. And it's like yeah, buddy, guess what? So-and-so's not in charge anymore, right, and this is called accountability, exactly this is called your time to take it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people can go through life and just yeah, and that's what hopefully we're going to see more in just the world overall in business and corporations. Account of fucking ability. Get some t-shirts, put it up right now.
Speaker 2:The really cool, literally is, is if you sit back long enough, I really feel like these type of people, the ones that like take advantage of systems of power, eventually they start to eat each other yeah and it's kind of like that scene in mean Girls where Regina George throws all of her papers up into the sky where you just sit there and you watch them, they'll eat themselves. Yes, do you know?
Speaker 1:what I mean. Look what's happening in WWE right now. The people at the top who are getting? They're all eating each other. Oh, I haven't been paying attention.
Speaker 2:I don't think.
Speaker 1:I'm allowed to talk. I think I signed something where I can't talk about publicly but, you know, but go to Twitter.
Speaker 3:You'll see what's happening.
Speaker 2:But that's the thing is, and I think one of the things that I I again when I worked in wrestling.
Speaker 2:I think the thing that becomes abundantly clear to you is, like that independent contractor status is just such a tightrope because and I'm one of those people that in any industry I've worked in, because, like, it's not just sports and it's not just wrestling and it's not just entertainment If you're going to call me an independent contractor and you're not going to give me the rights of someone that works for this company, like an employee status where you're going to help me pay for my health care, you're going to take care of me, et cetera, et cetera, you're going to help me plan my retirement If you're not going to give me any of those three things, you don't fucking own me.
Speaker 2:And I think that that's something like I really wish and it's going to take again. It's going to take people not being scabs, but it's going to like to create a union for these types of things. But I really do think that it's. It's going to be this one day where people look at all of the people that used to wrestle, that can barely move or that end up losing their lives because they get addicted to pain pills Like it's going to take them going.
Speaker 2:We don't want to end up like that. And we want to make sure the people coming up behind us don't want to end up like that, and we have to do something, and the only reason that that hasn't happened so far is because there's always someone that's willing to go.
Speaker 1:I'll do it.
Speaker 3:I'll do it.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll do it and I'm like those are the people that are screwing it up for everybody, because if everyone said no again, it's like vote with your money, vote with your money. Band together there's safety in numbers, like I truly believe in that stuff when it comes to being an independent contractor we can hope for those things.
Speaker 3:What message do you want to send to other women who have experienced harassment, especially in a male dominated industries like sports and entertainment, like what's something that you want to leave for them?
Speaker 2:That what happened to them mattered, that their stories matter. There was a pivotal moment during the FARVE stuff that like now I look back and I go, oh, that moment was much bigger than I gave it significance for at the time. And I got approached with like a lot of different business stuff when the Favre thing was happening because everybody was like, will she talk, will she not talk, you know? But I got approached by Norm MacDonald. You know a comedian, norm MacDonald, legend Norm MacDonald, because he had a sports show at the time on comedy central and he was like, hey, I want to do this sketch about old dudes trying to text younger women and just how bad we are at it. And he pitched me this delightfully, norm idea.
Speaker 2:Like you know, that was just so like Norm MacDonald, in its tone, quirky and dark, and you know. But at the time I went, when I took it to my management team and my lawyers, they were like you can't do this. If you do this, no one will take you seriously as a victim. And I was like they already don't. Yeah, but obviously I went back to norm and I was like, hey, they're saying no, I'm really sorry, because this is something like you. You've been an idol of mine for a long time and you know, like I'm just, I'm just honored to even be able to have a conversation with you. And he said, Chen, you know, I understand entirely, like your team's position on this, but he goes. But I just I feel for you, kid, he goes, you're just, you're in a real shit situation right now.
Speaker 3:He's like.
Speaker 2:But if I can give you any advice, he goes the sooner you can own this, the sooner you can own this and make something from it. No one will be able to hurt you with it anymore. He goes. And that's when you take your story back and I truly think, like when I think back on, like pivotal moments, it was that conversation that was like, oh, it really lit the path to comedy for me. It lit the path to comedy for me. It showed me that, like that was the one place I was gonna be able to tell my story in its entirety and all the pieces that affected me, where it wasn't just about being a victim, it was about persevering and creating something really cool and memorable and impactful with it. And that's what I try to do with my comedy and that's what I try to help other women do, and that's like it's my main goal in comedy now for real is to make sure that women know their stories matter.
Speaker 1:And to own them. Don't let anybody else own them. No.
Speaker 3:Ah Jen.
Speaker 1:I'm so proud of you. I really am. I'm so lucky to know you and I'm excited. Listen, you're such a badass. It could be on the show anytime. Seriously, we could probably talk for another three hours.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, we literally have four minutes.
Speaker 1:So yeah, to wrap this one up, but no, seriously.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you sharing more of your story and girl, look, I'm proud of you because it is so easy to stay in a system, you know. But it's quite another thing to like go out on a limb and bet on yourself Yep, you know what I mean, because it's not easy. And there's so many minutes where you're like, what am I doing and did I make the wrong choice? And there's so many minutes where you're like what am I doing and did I make the wrong choice? And if I can just be like that, like lighthouse for you, because I know sometimes you're like I've seen you on social where you're like I don't know about this.
Speaker 1:If.
Speaker 2:I can just be that lighthouse for you, like it's going to happen, thank you. You know what I mean. Like you've created an awesome thing here and this is just the beginning, you know. It's just um being able to like stand in your power and own all of it. That, like that's like the authenticity is the thing that's going to take you the furthest, and I'm just so proud of you as a friend.
Speaker 3:I'm on my moon cycle right now.
Speaker 2:So I'm like emotional over here and you just yeah your, your strength, um it just.
Speaker 3:It shows so much, and I know so many women are having their mind changed by your experience, and so thank you for being open and just wanting to help other women. You really are truly a girl's girl and and you, your money is where your mouth is, and we see that and everyone sees that.
Speaker 2:Watch a girl. Don't look for the girl. That's like I am a girl's girl. Look at the girl that walks, that walk you know what I mean but yeah, thank you so much for having me guys thank you for being here if anyone wants to come and see you live.
Speaker 2:You can go to my Instagram my link in bio. It has a place that you can sign up to get tour notifications. That's like the number one place that you can find me, because it, honestly, it helps show me where people want to see me, right, so I can plan a more effective tour literally thought you said linkedin bio.
Speaker 1:I'm like people are doing that.
Speaker 2:Now you're putting your tour dates on linkedin no, no, no, there's a link in my bio, but also you should, but yeah that's the number one thing I'm asking people to do is please sign up to see me um tour, because comedy comedy has completely saved my life and I know like I got my first like true standing ovation the other day in la jolla talking about this new stuff, and I'm just I know I'm on to something special, yes, but also it was crazy because I just I'm so bad with social cues. I thought people were getting up to leave really fast, so I was like walking off the stage and this lady was like no, no, no, jen, they're standing for you and I was like, oh my gosh, maybe this could turn into a special.
Speaker 1:My bad guys.
Speaker 2:No, I do feel like the stuff that people are going to watch me put up on stage in the next six to eight months is going to end up being my special. So please come out and see me. I also have a podcast with my buddy, eddie, called Not Today. As in not today Satan and we talk about all kinds of like mental health stuff and just like the experiences we all go through and I truly love doing that with, like my best friend yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much, and thank you guys always for watching and joining us for these important conversations with people that we love. Make sure you guys come back every single Monday. Thanks again, jen, and we'll see you next time. Thanks, ladies, see ya.
