Episode 35: Acting, Rejection, and Doing It Anyway w/ Kayla Becker and Vanessa Curry

What keeps an actor chasing the next audition when the no’s pile up, the nerves hit at the worst moment, and even big breaks don’t guarantee the next job? We crack open the real toolkit that sustains a creative career: practical audition tactics, honest mindset shifts, and the discipline to make your own work while the industry decides.

We dig into Jenna Fischer’s The Actor’s Life and connect it to our lived experience. You’ll hear how memorizing just the first three lines anchors a read, why casting actually prefers you hold the sides, and how one decisive nonverbal reaction can signal you’re truly listening. We talk range—when to go bigger so they can pull you back, and when restraint reads as truth. We explore the power of bringing yourself to the character instead of forcing a mask, the strange realities of type and “the look,” and why fame doesn’t hand you every role. Along the way, we share a gut-punch story of getting fired post-success and how to process that hit without losing your voice.

Mindset is the throughline. We reframe rejection with “no-to-yes math,” use a 24-hour window to feel and release, and outline body-based tools for audition anxiety: Feldenkrais, power stances, breath, and music that blocks comparison. Then we get tactical about career SEO: building a consistent body of work through short films, sketches, and podcasts, collaborating with people who match your taste and work ethic, and ignoring the fear of being “cringe.” Confidence doesn’t come from credits. It comes from showing up prepared, present, and honest—again and again.

If you need a nudge to keep going, this one’s for you. Hit play, then tell us the one audition habit you’ll try this week. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs it, and leave a review to help more creatives find the show.

Transcript

Setting The Stage: Why We Act

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Okay, everyone. Welcome back to Milk and Honeys. I'm your host, Vanessa Curry. And I'm Kayla Becker. And today we are going to be talking about acting, auditions, and why we're still doing this. Yeah. Sometimes we still ask ourselves that question as well. Ask myself that today. Um I have just oh yeah, don't forget your mic.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

I got it. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

There we go. Okay. You got it?

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yeah.

Jenna Fischer’s Playbook For Beginners

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Um, I just got done reading The Actor's Life, a survival guide, uh, by Jenna Fisher. And it is so great, so insightful. Um, and so I just wanted to talk a little bit about it today on this episode. I know our last episode we were talking about the Golden Globes. So I thought that this would be perfect for us to kind of go into the next week and keep all of our actors who are listening inspired and uh to keep creating and following their dreams.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Yeah, and I have not read the book full disclaimer. So I'm gonna be learning a bunch of stuff with you guys too. So she will read it. I make Vanessa read the book and give me the cliff notes. This is how I handled it, that's how I got through high school and college.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

I love that because I've never been the one who people steal the cliff notes from, so it makes me feel great.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Um that's great. Um little that I know about it from what you told me, I do think it is, you know, good for I know you started acting class again recently. Yes. Um, and I've been kind of diving back into the audition world, and so it is a very frustrating place to be.

Careers Plateau And Class As A Reset

SPEAKER_00 1:33

So yeah, I mean, which you know, it's like this book is very much for people who are either just starting um or questioning every life choice they've ever made. Choice. Choice. Choice. Uh questioning every life choice they've ever made. So it's it's all over the map. Um, if you're, like I said, the greenest of the green in the acting world, this is perfect. It goes in depth with headshots and what a table read is and what being on set is and what last looks are. So there's um all of these things in there and information that will be great if you genuinely have no idea and you're like, hey, I kind of want to give this thing a shot. Yeah. Um, and I picked this book. I actually didn't pick this book. My sister picked up this book and was like, I think she read it. Don't quote me on that, Nicole. Um, but I think she read it and she was like, Hey, I think you should read this. This is oh nice. This is it's a really good book. It's a really good read. Um, obviously, my sister loves The Office, so she loves Jenna Fisher. So um, yeah, it was it was great. Um and just to see where she's at in her acting career too, and knowing that she's had crazy roles and is still fighting for the next job is uh, you know what they say, misery loves company. So it is nice.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Like, where are you at with your acting? Because you mean you've booked roles over the years, and I know you're still like actively pursuing that. So, where do you think you are right now on your active journey? I think I'm in the right place.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Obviously, we all want our careers to be better every year, and that's just not the case sometimes. Sometimes you uh have a great year, and then the next year maybe you book one job or you don't book any jobs, you know. So it's uh I think I'm in the right spot, but I think I'm I'm at a plateau right now. That's what I genuinely feel. So I know being in this acting class, uh it's been a couple of years since I've been in an acting class, but I think every couple of years or a few years, it's really important to do that, just to hone in on your craft and acting as like a muscle. So if you don't work it out, then sometimes it can kind of if you try to work it out, you know, vigorously, real right away, you could pull a muscle, you know. So we don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Um and then things probably change and what people are looking for, and it's probably change, and you're not gonna know that unless you go to these classes and see what the new techniques are and what people are looking for. Of course.

Fame Doesn’t Guarantee Roles

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Of course. It's definitely a book that makes you feel um comfort instead of intimidation, which I love. That's like she has a really great way of writing this to where it's like, hey, don't do that. Yeah, just do it, you know, like do this instead. But it's not the way she's writing isn't it's not arrogant, it's not shaming you. It's very, like I said, inspiring.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Well, I think it is interesting, and you know, for me, when people ask me um, like what acting I've done. Technically, I have I've done one movie. Um, but working in WWE for all those years, technically I was acting every single week. And so I think something I had to that I'm having to kind of get out of my head with is like um auditioning and thinking I should get it because I'm already well known for something else, right? Which I know is not the way. I'm sure she can probably attest to that in the book because she's Pam Beasley from the office. That's what she was known for. And maybe she thought it'd be way easier to land big roles after it because she's Pam Beasley, and it clearly didn't work out like that for her. No. You're like you constantly have to prove or feel like you have to prove that you belong in the room when in reality it's like, why should I not already have an invite into this room? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

And there are like big actors who I'm sure, I'm sure probably Robert De Niro doesn't audition anymore. I'm sure he just gets roles, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

A self-take from his living room.

Getting Fired After Success

SPEAKER_00 5:19

I'm gonna tear him like, damn it, the light like the am I in the light? Am I in it? You know, so I I I imagine, I know there's I'm sure actors, actors who don't audition anymore. Um, I'm, you know, like even like Meryl Streep, I'm sure she doesn't audition anymore. I'm sure she just gets the roles, or she, I'm sure, is in the running for roles are written for her, written for her. Um but yeah, I mean it's it was kind of nice to see and read in this book that even after The Office, she did have uh a role that she had got booked, and she essentially got fired, fired, but like I mean, I guess yeah, she did get fired. What was the role for again? It was for um a new TV series with um oh my gosh, we didn't look up his name. Why can I never did the series ever happen? It did.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

It was with Joey from Friends. Oh, yeah. And so, and then yeah, you said she wasn't. What is his name though? My sister's gonna kill me. She's like ha she's probably screwed.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

I've never watched Friends. I mean, I've seen it, but I've never watched it, so I feel like I have a uh Joey Trebon Trebani. What's his real name? Yeah, Matt Matt Matt Lee Matt LeBlanc.

Rejection Math And Mindset Shifts

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Oh my gosh, gosh. Why would I just struggle? I feel like I know who he is. Matt LeBlanc. Why can't I ever remember his freaking name? Um it was a uh a sitcom, and so she was cast as his wife. Okay, and apparently they did a uh focus group with the studio on the pilot, and everyone in the focus group said that they didn't not believe their love was true, that they would actually be together. So they let her go, and they booked somebody else. And um, you know, her she was like, Yeah, I've never I've never been fired from something before. And this was after the office. Yeah. So again, you know, having this career that's just blown up and she is Pam from the office and gets this next role that she thinks, oh great, now I'm I'm a regular on a TV series. And um, it's not. And and the way she said that she processed that was her and her husband dropped the kids off with their parents. They went to Palm Springs, they got drunk on the weekend. And just she was like, I cried sometimes, and then I laughed sometimes, and then I was yelling sometimes. And there's a picture of her in the book where she's like jumping in a pool, flipping off the camera, which is kind of funny.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

So um it's hard though, because they try to tell you like don't take it personal. It's just business, but this business is personal. Like that's the thing for us. This is personal, and they can say all day, oh, it's just because you don't look the part, or it's only because you just weren't chosen. It's like it it's personal. It really hurts.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yeah, you know, and it's okay to hurt. I I think it's important for us to feel that. I mean, when we when we go up for jobs for for any type of job, um, not only in this industry, but a lot of times in this industry, we're auditioning and the the audition part is part of the job. That is our job, you know. So it's like we do put our heart and soul into those auditions because we want them to see what we can bring to the table without props and set and all that stuff with our imagination. So um I do the same thing. I always tell told my family and friends, I'm like, look, if I was up for a role of some sort and I almost had it and then it didn't get it, give me 24 hours. I I need to just let I'll I'll let it go because we have to. Otherwise, I wouldn't be in this industry anymore. So you have to let it go and move on. But what do you do like when you don't get something?

Looks, Type, And Casting Variables

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Um sulk, create little um voodoo dolls and stab it for the people who rejected me. Just the normal kind of thing. Every casting director you're watching right now, which we know there's so many. Every casting director. They're never gonna bring kills. Is your knee hurt today? Does it? Um, so you think this has helped kind of reframe rejection, though? Like, because I remember there was a role I really was excited uh to get as for a horror movie. And I really put my all, put my back into this role. I did a lot of different like versions of it. Um, and I was like, oh, they're gonna at least call me back for like, you know, never heard from them again. And I was like, whoa, God, like I'm like, and that immediately my first thought was like, oh, that must not be good. I must be bad at acting then, so I'm just gonna quit. And that it's so easy to immediately go to that and take it internal and be like, oh, I should be doing something else, and this isn't for me. Yeah. And I can't imagine the amount of people. What's the thing? Like, for the a thousand auditions you get, you might get five callbacks.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Like it's uh it's a huge. I think in her book, um, she said for ever it was it was for every 50 yeah no's, you do get that one. So as many as so she said she used to every time she would get a no, she'd be like, oh, well, that's number, that's another one. So we're we're closer to 50, which means I'm gonna get that yes soon. I like that though. Which is what is it is true though, you know? And the best part about rejection is that you get to learn from it and do something again. So that is that is something I've tried to take. Okay, I didn't book this, and sometimes I'll see either the commercial on television or the film that I auditioned for, and I see that person that got the role, and I'm like, okay, like maybe what let me see what they did. Yeah. But sometimes it's not even about that. Yeah. Sometimes it's that that person had blue eyes and I had brown eyes.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

And so you think it's easier to like accept that? I think for me, like similar, like there was a movie I auditioned for. I saw when I saw the movie, I saw who got it. I was like, oh, they look nothing like me. That's easier for me to accept why I didn't get it versus like someone who looked just like me who maybe just was better at acting. Because I'm like, oh, then I could have competed with a blonde hair, blue eye that that's what they wanted.

Self‑Tapes, Preparation, And Process

SPEAKER_00 11:00

But it could be something so it could, it you could still look like that person, but there's one thing about them physically that is different that one person liked. Yeah, you know. I'll never forget I was um, I auditioned for a Coke Zero commercial, and this was excuse me, I just had a little burp. Um, this was before I I had gotten my nose broken in seventh grade by a football. I had a Marsha Brady moment and a guy threw a football at PE, called my name, I turned around, went like this, and boom, the spiral just hit. So my nose was broken. Um, and I was scheduled to fix it. This was, I was like 21, I believe, at this time. I was scheduled to fix it um the the week later. The week after I filmed this Coke Zero commercial, and I had worked with the director on another job. So he was pitching me, so I didn't have to audition for it. But after I got the job, it was with uh Kevin Hart. It was like such a fun commercial, and all of us went to dinner afterwards, and the director was telling me that he fought for me because the casting was like, we love her look, she's great, but her nose. Oh no, my profile was just like it was just off, right? It's like till this day, too. If you see a little bump on my nose, it's because I did get my nose fixed, okay? And then realized I cannot take Vicadin fully on, like I have to eat a lot in order to take Vicodin, otherwise I get sick. So I threw up for three hours, which you're not supposed to do right after you get your nose fixed. So I still have a bump, which whatever, it's fine, I'll take it. You know what I mean? But like till this day, I'm like, oh my God, another girl could have gotten it just because her profile looked different than mine. Yeah. That's how like minuscule and and picky and like little.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And I think the thing he also realizes people who are the writers, directors, producers, they're creatives. So they already have an idea of what they want the person to look like in their head before they even start the audition process. Right. Which also is another eat like a way for me to kind of like feel better about not being chosen for something.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

But on the other hand, you just auditioned for something that was not really you, like an older, older age rage. Or maybe they thought I was 50 years old. No, there's no way they thought they saw it in the script, but 50s, lady in her 50s. But that doesn't matter. Because you can walk into that room and if someone is bringing you in there, it's because they see you in the role, maybe somebody else doesn't. And so they want they want you to change somebody else's mind. Yeah. And that is our job, right? Like, even if you don't get it, if you did a good job, now they're gonna be like, oh, well, she wasn't right for this, but like we're gonna bring her in for X, Y, and Z next, you know? So it's it's just so many variables. Like a puzzle you can never actually figure out.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

No, ever, because everyone's different. Everyone is different. That is the theme of of life. Um have you gone into auditions where you just knew it wasn't your day? Because there's nothing worse than auditioning on a day you just don't feel like feel like you want to. Because then when you're having to like put yourself into this character, and it's like, oh, like today or the audition, I felt that. Like I was having a stressful morning. Yes. And I was like, I don't feel like jumping into this character. But you did it. But it's just it's hard. Like it is hard. Like, how do you somehow like kind of switch your mentality to like go into? I guess that's what acting is, jumping into character.

Act With Yourself, Not A Mask

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Yeah, I think that's just like we know that that's our job. And unfortunately, sometimes you have to fall in love with auditioning, which is a weird thing to say. But it's like the second we start to fall in love with it, I think that's when we can change the trajectory of how it's gonna go. Because don't get me wrong, like I'm not a good self-taper for commercial auditions. I don't like it. I want to be in the room. I want to have a casting director behind the camera telling me, okay, we're doing X, Y, and Z and whatever. Um, but for theatrical auditions, I do like doing self-tapes, like we've done self-tapes because you get to do it multiple times and perfect it. So it's one of those things where I had to fall in love with doing self-tapes again because after the pandemic, that's really all I do now. Like I used to have auditions three, four a day where I'd have to pack in the morning and then change in my car and go to Santa Monica and then go to the valley and then go downtown LA. And that just isn't necessarily the reality anymore. Yeah. You know, but like learning to judge success by did I show up prepared? That is something I learned in this book, and I'm reading another book too right now, where it's um not having to be completely off book for an audition, right? Because like we were talking about that today. You were like, I'm I don't know if like I know like all these lines. And what I'm learning, even though I've been in this industry for a long time, but I'm learning again, it's to remind myself you don't have to be off book. Yeah, it's okay. Like they want you to hold the paper. Don't go and audition without your paper because that makes the casting directors uncomfortable. Okay. Because like they they don't care if you lose your place, and that's what the paper's there for. But if you're going in there and then you have to stop and then start over and line, yep. They hate that they hate it. That was so beamy. Yeah. Like, I'm sorry, what's the line? And the casting are just sitting there, like, I don't freaking know. Like, you should have it, you know? And then the reader sitting there, just like, yeah, you should have your paper. Yeah, you know. So I had to learn that too because it's uh, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. But she does talk a lot about how your real job is creating a consistent body of work.

Range, Notes, And Doing More

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Well, I think that's something I feel like I like, even just like listening to that, which I think I've always kind of done a good job with in my career, is like so the whole different way of saying it is like taking the initiative, which is something out of college I did, started my own little YouTube shows and talk shows, got got my first TV job from that. And like just learning how to edit, learning how to direct or produce. When I first got my first job was in TV News, I didn't know what a Vosot was. Uh voiceover, sound on tape, whatever. I didn't know what that meant. I was like, they said, Can you go do a Vosot? And I'm like, yeah, of course I can. I went and Googled what that was, learned how to do it, did it, and doing that kind of stuff is what was able to like, yeah. I can pretty much do anything. I lie and don't tell people I can edit because I hate editing, but I can, you know, I had to edit for a long time. Um, but that's also what I've, you know, you're creating this consistent body of work. Us doing this podcast instead of just waiting around, which I think unfortunately a lot of these younger kids just wait around for like that phone call instead of doing work in the meantime to show that you can that you can do it. Yep. It's what's keeping a lot of people back. And if you're listening to this and that's you, that's what's holding you back because people want to see you take the initiative and they want to see your body of work. You can give people ideas all day long, but can you show us the idea? Can you film us a little short pilot and show us like your ideas? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Um, and that's important too, using the people in your corner who are creatives and learning from them, but also collaborating with them. I think that that's really important. I know, and I think that's something that we're just starting to do now. It's it and and to to really understand that. And I get it, you have to be careful with who you decide to collaborate with and make sure that you guys like have the same work ethic and and um and creative collaboration brain. But I think that it is important for us to as long as you keep doing work, keep auditioning, yeah, keep putting stuff out there, it doesn't matter if it's bad. And that's what I keep trying to tell myself. It doesn't matter if it's perfect. No one cares. Your first thing that you do, like if we look back at our first episode, even it's probably like we'd probably be like, oh my God, kind of cringe on something.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

But anything you put out, like that's but also having a digital footprint like that just again shows that you're not waiting around for someone to pick you. Yes. You're going out there and grabbing life and this industry by the balls and showing, like, no, I picked this industry, and so they'd be lucky to have me because here are all the skills that I have, and here's me showing those skills. Yes. And so that kid, the hated robbery get kid, Hudson, the he, if you go and look at him on YouTube, he's just done YouTube skits. And those YouTube skits got him seen by someone. Yes. Like that's how that's how it freaking works these days.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

And it's probably, and probably so many people are like, oh my god, that's so cheesy, how cringe he's doing this. Oh, you think him on the golden globe stage is thinking, oh no, they became cringe. Exactly. Like, what? But you know that I'm sure when he first started those skits, people are like, Oh my God, this is so like cringe and this is so cheesy and blah blah. And maybe it is, but look at where he's at now. So who cares? Like we, you can't say, you cannot talk shit about that because he really did do it. And so I've I hear I've heard that so much over the past, I'd say, like decade of people, especially our age, like millennials, being like, oh yeah, but it's like so cheesy, it's so cringe.

Code Switching, Identity, And Courage

SPEAKER_01 20:23

It's like, yeah, but let's act like if you're not comfortable being cringy and like weird and stuff, then acting isn't for you. That's the whole thing. I mean, I'll I will struggle with that sometimes. There's some roles, I'm like, ee, this is gonna be hard for me to kind of get into this because I think I'm thinking too much about caring what other people think. Exactly. But then you see some of these act, some of the weirdest roles that we've seen on TV and film has been some of the most captivating ones as well. And they're so good where they take you out of the fact that it's yes, the actor. Like, what about like like Sean Penn in one battle after another? When you see his role, you'll be like, oh my god. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

But like, oh my god. But then, like, to like counter that is like, remember Tropic Thunder? Oh, yeah, freaking Ben Stiller in that movie. Which would probably not get away with this exactly, but I was such a convention. But it was just, I mean, imagine auditioning for that. You know what I mean? Like, you don't have any makeup on, you don't have anything, you just have to portray this person that and it was brilliant. It was, you know, it's like so just committed.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Someone who's never been afraid to like, I mean Zoolander and like everything. Love him and still, he's so great. I love him. Yeah, so I think that's one thing. Build your platform, don't wait to be picked. Nope. You just gotta go do it on your own, and then somebody will see your hard work, or maybe they won't, you know.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

But if you do want someone to see your hard work, maybe get into an acting class because sometimes they do have showcases where you can do that. And it's just starting acting classes, too, is also getting the ball rolling for yourself to hold yourself accountable weekly. Like I'm I'm doing a six-week program with Robert Di Avanzo, who who was actually Jenna Fisher's uh um acting coach, and she claims that he changed her life and really taught her some some moments that she will take for forever in her career. So I'm I'm excited to you know be learning from from someone like that. And um it doesn't matter how old you are either.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Like when I was in acting class, there are people who just started, just starting their acting journey in their 50s and 60s, and a couple of them I've seen and seen in stuff. So like it doesn't matter how old you are. No. If you're like taking the steps, you know, getting prepared and putting in the work and learning from people and not thinking, oh, I'm I'm already too advanced in my life and career to learn from anyone.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

Because the moment you're we're releasing those timelines. Yeah. We release those timelines. They're done. Like they're we don't know our timeline. You can't unless, like, you know, like us, like we are we're we're making sure that this timeline for our podcast, this creative outlet, is working, is elevating, is growing. We have goals, we know what we want. But even for acting, it's like I think for both of us, we could be doing more too. You know, we have so many, we could be doing uh short films with each other. Just we have film stuff to film. We have our camera.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

We're doing like TikTok, social media stuff. Things like that. You see all these TikTokers right now who are showing up. Veronica, can't say her last name, hilarious girl on uh TikTok, and now is a cast member in SNL. You have the Drewski's, the Madison Humphreys, like all of these ones we're doing. And you're right. We I I mean, I think you always try to get us to do it, and I'm always like, but that should be something I try to do more of.

Nerves, Body Work, And Power Stances

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Listen, I do try, okay? You're right. I, you know, but I mean, even for me, it's like I'm getting people to try, but I could be doing it on my own too, right? It's like I could be doing a one-woman show, I could be filming it myself. I know I can know how to do the angles, but I'm not. But I think this is a moment for us right now to say that we should be doing this, we will be doing this, we gotta just like you have to, and when people think that you're working all the time, even if it's a self-made project, I think that's just the momentum that happens in the universe. And when people see, oh, they're working, they're working, they're working, even if it's a test shoot, even if it's just us doing uh skits and things like that. It's like it still puts it in the universe, like, oh, they're doing this, they're making, they're getting the ball rolling for themselves. So now other people are like, well, I want to hop on that. And it's a weird uh domino effect, but it does work.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

No, it definitely does work because people wanna, it's like the whole like you want what you don't think you can get, and you look unobtainable because you're so busy. Then people are like, Oh, how do I? Your value increases. Yep. All right, what are some audition tips for those who maybe haven't auditioned or wanting to get into auditioning? Some tips that are actually useful that I think the book pointed out.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Um, I've heard this one my very first acting class. Like this was the first thing when I moved here 18 years ago or something like that. Um, memorize the first three lines. Not that you have to memorize the whole script, but if you have those first three lines memorized and you're delivering it straight to camera or straight to your reader, and then you look down and you can kind of like figure out your placement and stuff like that. But if you deliver those first three lines strong, then you're already winning. You're already captivating the casting director or whoever's behind there. Sometimes there's multiple people in the room, the writer, the director, the producers, or whatever, depending on what it's for. Um pick one strong nonverbal reaction. Yep. Just like that. Yep, just like that, you know? Call me. Booked. Booked, booked and blessed, honey. Um uh, what was the other one? Stop trying to perform the entire scene. Pick moments, like we just said, like picking that nonverbal moment, making sure that you're listening to your partner.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Um, I think people forget to do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

They'll say their lines, and then when the reader's going, they're not reacting to it.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

They're not reacting because then it's like that's not what we do in normal life. When you're talking to me, I'm like, whoa, whoa.

unknown 26:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Because they're like thinking about my next line. Yeah, I'm delivering now. It's like so robotic. So that's something that I had to learn. And I I do uh a funny story is Will Smith actually, when he started doing Fresh Prince, he would memorize his lines and the other person's lines. Oh, nice. That's how he would, that's was his process. So in the very beginning series of um the season, you see him seem like mouthing mouthing the other person's lines. That's why I'd be afraid to do that. Because that was his first acting role. You know, he was a he was a DJ. And so he was like, Yeah, and he literally, you would see him going like that's funny. And then obviously he didn't, he stopped doing it. Obviously, they talked like told him, yeah. But it but like things like that.

Rapid Fire: Luck, Ask, And Attitude

SPEAKER_01 26:56

It's just so crazy, you don't think about it. Um overacting, which I've that's one thing my acting coach said tell me. This he's like, I don't overact. I probably underact a little bit. Most people don't overact. He told me most people do overact. He's like, a lot of people come in here and they overact because it's just like, and then that's what he said. And I've seen that too. I feel like I like watch people in the in my class that would just like try to go too big with it and be too expressive. And it's like that's not how a normal person is having this conversation, right? Overacting is like in shows like Friends, where they're supposed to be over the top and dramatic, but then you watch The Office, they are all very like it felt like so real conversation, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Well, that's also because they were trying to portray because The Office was a BBC show originally with Ricky Ricky Gervais, yes. So so then they brought it to um the the United States, I guess. Sounds so proper. Um, to LA, to California. Um, I think they wanted to keep that same tone, but that's that tone is of is not like a very Americanized tone. It is now, yeah, but I think when the office first started, it was new to like American actors to be so dry and real and undertoned with everything. Interesting. I love it. I mean, yeah, it's amazing. I mean, I love BBC shows, they're the funniest. I mean, British humor just is they are the so funniest. So good.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

So good. Okay. We'll have to. Okay, so another tip in the book was what giving up the character. This one's interesting. Um, the giving up the character and using yourself.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

I thought that was really interesting too, because so often we go into an audition trying to find what the character, you know, the conflict, what's the resolution, where's the romance, where's the comedy, where's the where do we find the humor in the scene, even if there's no humor added into the scene? Um and I realize that yes, it is true. Even if we haven't been put into these situations or scenarios, if you were in this situation scenario, what would Vanessa do? What would Kayla do? Because that's gonna give the character a humanistic feel to the scene. Instead of you saying, Well, Patricia, my character, she, she, she would do this. No, it's like, what's it? It's like, no, I how are you going to play it? And I've I've had I've had to relearn to not say, well, she would do it like this. No, how well, but you're in control of this character, you're the puppet master. So I would, Kayla said you're you would say, Well, I would do this because I want to learn about this person in the scene instead of that. So using yourself actually is, you know, acting comes from those moments in your real life. Because a lot of people have had those moments, have had hard times, have fallen off a roof or something. I don't know. And maybe they use that to their advantage, you know?

Why We Still Do It

SPEAKER_01 29:57

I think one of the things I I, you know, you look at certain actors, Seth Rogan's a great example, and you always say, like, or people always say, Oh, he's always just playing himself. Or there's certain actors, like they're just like taking themselves out of one movie and plopping themselves into another. And I think people like misconstrue that, misunderstand that as a lazy acting, but like no, they've mastered the art of not playing this character, they're just playing themselves in as in a scenario. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Which is easier said than done. I think. Seth Rogan, Adam Sandler, too.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Adam Sandler, you know, people say that about him a lot of times too. So many people. You just see them, it's like they're the exact same person and everything is play. But I think that's that's the the key, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Oh, yeah, for sure. I think it's like uh the fear of being too much or not enough. Yeah. And I think there's that that happy, obviously that happy medium that we're always trying to find. Yeah. But I do, do you think that it's better to overact and be brought down? Or do you think it's better to underact and be told, hey, I need you to bring it up, in your opinion? I don't know. I don't know. I've always felt like it's easier to maybe be too big because that still gets someone's attention. And then if someone were to tell me to bring it down, then it's like, okay, I can, yeah, I can do less. But maybe I think I think sometimes it's probably harder to do more.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

If you don't have because some people don't have the bill or arsenal to be able to go more. So maybe you're right. Like if they can see, oh, here's the range they have from here to here instead of from here to here. Yes. It does kind of like. And if the range is too much, it's like, oh, we can we can pull that back. Pull it back. But if you don't have enough, it's like, oh, but they just can't get there. Exactly. But I wonder even with like the wicked auditions, they had a uh Dove Cameron, Amanda Cyfred, Ariana Grande. There's a list of really talented people who were up for that role. Yep. But I think there's there probably wasn't an example of that to where maybe some of them couldn't quite, you know, cross that threshold that Ariana Grande did.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Right, right. It's a very interesting. I know. An interesting thing. Like, should we do more or should we do less? No.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Do more.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Yeah. Or so just do more. We have no uh reason to give you any advice, but do more. Um, so code switching and auditions, which I'm trying to deal with. So I can't talk about it too much, obviously, but there is a role that I uh am being asked to code switch a little bit, you know, be a little more urban. And this is hard for me. I think it's hard for me for like some triggering reasons because I feel like as a biracial person, black and white, I got bullied a lot growing up because I was too white. So I'm like, oh my God, if I start code switching and sounding black, I think it's I'm going, it's like we were talking about earlier. I'm caring too much about what people think, and I'm like, oh, this is cringy and embarrassing, which is the exact wrong way for me to be looking at something like this. Absolutely. But it is hard for me to like I did a movie where I had to talk really southern. That was easier for me because it was Louisiana and I can bring out the Alabama accent, but then going like talking urban and more black, that's harder for me because I've never really done that.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Yeah, so in your real life, even though you do have it, you are half black. I know.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

So it's just like one of those things where I feel but then like Ben Stiller, he had no problem. Co-switching. But we a different type of code switching, but nonetheless, you see people do it all the time in movies and stuff, and that is literally the definition of acting. And I'm I'm still uh such a baby actor where I have a lot to learn in that in that regard and putting down your, you know, your insecurities. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

I mean, uh there's been roles where I have to say words that I don't want to say, like like the N-word, right? Like in in a scene, and it is uncomfortable. And you have to make that choice to say it, you know, because this is part of the role. It's not something that like I would necessarily necessarily say in my I would never say it in my normal day life, but like for this film, for this role, like it has to be that way. So you just you just roll with it. Just roll with it. You just try. And accents are hard, man.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

I don't have Do you have an accent that you can do that's in your that's in your arsenal?

SPEAKER_00 34:07

No, I I I mean it's I'm so impressed by people who can do like all the accents and I guess like a little country twang, but like that's it. And I don't know if it'll stay. I it it might go back. I mean and then at one point you're gonna think I'm Australian. And then one point you're like, no, that's not it.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

My friends used to get really when we get we'd get drunk, we'd go out and we'd like fake like British accents. And then one time, normally we could get away with it. Because when I'm drunk, I can do accents. It's like this thing that comes on when you're drunk. Because I think you just all your you know inhibitions in your I can speak Spanish. But then I when I'm talking about, I was like telling this couple, like, yeah, you know, told them I was like from, I don't know, some random place. And I'm like, oh my, so are we. No, literally, they were so That is the way we had to run away from them because I was like, oh, it's like something of a sitcom. Just get it.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Just get it. I'm sure that's been written in a sitcom before, but like we should, we should that would be that would be a really funny skit to do.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

We're grown out, like we're getting like free shots from people because we're like here from out of town, and and then all of a sudden we go up to these two guys and we're like, hi there, or whatever. That was I don't know what accent that was, but that wasn't any part of the UK. That was Wadley, Alabama. Um yeah, that would be a funny skit. Yeah, I think we should do it. We'll just start writing.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

We did a new spreadsheet. It's gonna be the skit the spreadsheet. The skit spreadsheet. The skit spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

I don't know. Sometimes it just comes out. I know, I feel like I'm in Texas. Me too. Me too. Oh, you know, we could not. I can't um okay. Let's run through a few more of these. Yes. Um, so yeah, what's the uh you are enough, the uncomfortable part.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

That is actually something that was said from her acting teacher, who right now is her acting teacher, Robert Di Avanzo. He is who always said, You are enough. I I don't remember exactly what the role was, but I think she, Jenna Fisher, was talking about in the book that she had a moment where she was like, I'm done. This is I'm done with this. Uh I this is not for me, blah, blah, blah. She called uh Robert, her acting coach at the time, and he basically like basically told her to shut up in a nice way, kind of. She said he did kind of yell at her and and had to remind her, like, you are enough. Yeah. Everyone needs to know, like, you are enough. You can do this. If you really want to do this, remember you're enough. You have what it takes. You just have to keep going. And that is the hardest part is to keep going and to remember that you are enough. I've so many times have had the wreck, you know, the the moment in my life where I'm just like, what am I doing? Is this, is this really for me? But then when I do think about letting go and never doing it again, it really makes me sad because I truly do love it. Yeah. And as long as you love it, just you have to remind yourself that you are enough. And I know that's like a, it's it's the belief that one booking will fix everything, but it's it's not. It's never gonna fix everything, but it will fix that moment in time and hopefully create that momentum.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

I think also, I think we've talked about something that I've struggled with is like chasing external validation, um, being successful on paper, but still so insecure about like how the world is perceiving perceiving my success because I have been off TV for a year and a half. And I I will like I actually last night is a great example or two nights ago, I was laying in bed and almost had this like mini panic attack because I my my mind was like, What do I wonder what people think about me right now? I wonder what people at WWE are thinking about me right now. Oh my god, I wonder what they thought about this photo I posted, or like I just I think I spend way too much time worried about that and understanding on paper I'm successful, but now I feel so not successful. And it's sad because it's keeping me from kind of getting over that hump. And like, if I don't believe that I am worthy of these positions and these roles, then nobody else is gonna believe it. Exactly. And so I think I'm really working on that as telling myself, I'm enough. I've done all right for myself at this point. Everyone is gonna go through these little lulls in life and in their careers and want to quit, like Jenna did. And then it's good to have people in your corner who are like, no, you're not gonna fucking quit.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

You're gonna keep going. And realizing that confidence doesn't come from your credits. Like confidence comes from from who you are. You are a talented person. You have been on television for so long. I, you know, even for me, it's like I hadn't I hadn't been on TV to the point I don't even think I did I book a commercial last year? I don't even remember. It's like, and then you have people at Thanksgiving being like, Oh, I haven't seen you on TV in a while. And it's like, oh wait, I'll just go fuck off right now. You know what I mean? Like, and and and it's it's those moments where you have to not let other people's uh validation or judgment or questions get to you, which is so much easier settled.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

And even their phantom version of that. I think that's the thing. It's like these other people may not even be thinking any of these things about you, but we all create these. Because we feel that way.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

We feel that way. We feel that because we haven't been on TV for everyone is judging, everyone's like, oh my god, they're never gonna get any work.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Like, in reality, they probably are still like rooting you all, you know, like exactly like this thing that just happened.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Exactly. It's a really weird, it's it's yeah, like, you know, starting something new without proof. It's it's hard to do that, even with you and I starting this. Like we started this not knowing if there, if if it would work. Like we we didn't know each other that well when we first started. And here we are over six months or now eight months into it. You know, and and we've realized oh, now we have the proof. We're we're getting proof. And now this year we have so many opportunities that have come to our table that I couldn't even imagine that. We're gonna get to do that, haven't happened yet, but we know are happening, and um, obviously, when they do, we'll tell you about it. We'll tell you not until after. So I know that's yeah, it's like without like yeah, without giving anything away. We you will see us a lot more than some really cool stuff happening, certain events, and we're so excited for that.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

But um, before we go, I know we're god, we could probably sit and talk for two hours about this. Um, I wanted to talk about is it felt felt? How do you say that? Felden craze, feld and craze. So it's about like the nerves, like why like you shake because I did comedy, a comedy show uh several months back, and I was fine, and all of a sudden, like this in control like uncontrollable shaking. Yes, what like there's the science behind it is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yes, like I remember going into uh well, it still happens actually, like, but like we there's not that many in-person auditions anymore. But I remember going into um a specific audition, it was a theatrical one, and my like it's so funny, my nerves went to my butt cheek and only my right butt cheek. So like I look fine to the front, but in the back, my cheek was like my cheek just one, just like the right one's like and I'm just like all my nerves are in my right butt cheek for some reason. But you know what? At least it's back there and not up there. That's amazing. But it is true, but apparently um this they they do use it's movement as awareness. It's it's a it's a system where you can I'm sorry, it is for nervous system regulation, and they do use it for people who have anxiety or uh stress, but also MS. It's actually used to help people um recalibrate like their muscles and retrain their muscles because you know, MS is um all about that and really hard to deal with. So uh yeah, and and Jenna Fisher actually mentions that she has used it a lot for auditions before she would go into a room. She would do some of those movements, those physical movements to kind of like, you know, get it out, get it out of those fingertips and shake it out, shake it out, roll it out. And um, I've done that too. I know some people will stand and put their hands on their hips like a superhero and like put their chest up for a little bit and take some deep breaths before they go in, because that stance is technically like a power stance. So a lot of times if you do that before you go into an audition, it helps kind of rewire your brain.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

What did you have any like things that you have done that help you?

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Um, I have brought headphones before and I listened to just like classical music or whatever. And because like sometimes in the room you would be able to hear the actors who are auditioning, and I don't want to hear them because it kind of made me more nervous for some reason, especially if like they're you get they get a ton of laughs or they're applauding them.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

It's like they've already chosen them. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

I'm like, if I don't have it, I don't get a laugh, I'm not getting this. So that's something that has worked for me. Um, sometimes, sometimes it doesn't, but like sometimes it does work. But yeah, I have done the stance. I have gone into a corner or in the bathroom. And but when I know that I'm on deck, I'll go to the bathroom and just kind of like stand there and take some deep breaths and like look at myself in the mirror and just tell myself mentally, like, you got this, you know what to do, you know how to do this. Let's go in there and kill it.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

And these are like, I feel like this is stuff you can do for anything, like anything big date or a meeting with your banker about your overdrafts and stuff. Like, I think there's a lot of things that you can use this for. It's not just for acting, it's for life. For life. Oh my gosh, for life. Absolutely. Okay, so I'm gonna react to these for you. Rapid fire reactions with Kayla Becker. Ayo.

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Are you ready? I'm ready. No overthinking. No overthinking. For that ever do that. Okay. Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Okay.

unknown 43:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

So that means there's no such thing as luck.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

I think uh there is luck. But no, preparation opportunity equal like there's no luck. Because that that means that because luck is like, oh, I got lucky. True. I drew a I I won I played the lottery, and now that's no preparation and opportunity in that.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

But I guess if you're doing it for like a an audition situation, go straight to the lottery. Yeah, won the lottery. And the last separate, I play every freaking. Okay, here's something. Okay. We start playing tennis.

unknown 44:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

We start playing tennis and just for funsies. Okay. And uh a month later, we both get auditions for uh a role that involves tennis. And so we have been playing, not for any reason, but for just whatever. We're prepared now. And now it is kind of luck. Like this is sort of a lucky opportunity that has come our way that we have been preparing for this that we didn't even know, but now our preparation is meeting the opportunity with that luck.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Okay, smarty pants. I can see that.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

That's all.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Okay, next question. A lot of people are afraid to say what they want.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Guilty. Absolutely. I I'm so I hate asking for anything that I think I deserve. I've this is a big career flaw of mine.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Which is crazy because ask for what you want and you will get, I think. I mean, not I don't know if that's necessarily true. I think I think if you have like a negative mentality, which I have had before, then it's a domino effect.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Well, can I please have the remainder of dollars in your bank account? Can I please have the keys to your Luxus?

SPEAKER_00 45:41

I mean, yeah, I've given them to you before. This is not working. Not forever. But I I do think a lot of people, like we said, even for us, are we afraid to do these skits and stuff like that? Because God forbid, like we get we get picked up for it's like Broad City, right? It's like they were doing skits on on YouTube and and all of a sudden, like, God forbid, now they have a hit show that was on television for a few years, and it was amazing. Such a good show. So I don't know. I would change your mind on that. Oh we're gonna the difference between successful people and others.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

I mean, I think there's a lot, a lot that can be. But what's one thing? Um, I think um like no network knowing people, networking, yeah. Connections.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

Yeah, I would say that too. I would say connections, but I would also say attitude.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

Okay, I can see that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Because successful I mean, although there are plenty of successful people out there who are have a really bad attitude, but I do think attitude plays a huge part. Sean Penn, we're looking at you. Right. No smoking cigarettes. The globe, the globe, and the gloves, the globe, the globe, the globe, okay. Last one, last one. Courage doesn't always roar. I don't know. Courage doesn't always roar. It's it can be silent. Yeah, it could be it could be a silent success. Yeah, because sometimes the roarers are the ones who are like the least the most intimidating. So you don't have to be the loudest one in the room in order to be the most successful or the most talented one. Sometimes a lot of actors are really um awkward in person.

SPEAKER_01 47:21

Look like Zendale is a good example, or even um uh Tom Holland. Like I feel like they're probably very like to themselves and that they don't come across as probably big roarers, but also probably two of the most successful, not just in their acting and their personal lives, and they just kind of keep things to themselves. I think they're a great example of that. Yeah, I think so too. Um, which ones feel annoying but true? I mean, they're all pretty annoying and true. But I think for me personally, it would be like the afraid to say what they want because it's just I just struggle so much with it. I think I yeah, if I struggle too much with it. Which ones feel earned? I mean, I mean, probably the luck is what happens. Yeah, because you're I think so too.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yeah. And all of them.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

Which one you want to roll your eyes out? I think I literally just did roll my eyes at every single one of those. So there's your answer there. So after all of this, why are we still acting?

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Oh gosh, because nothing not me bombing this. Are you kidding me? Ask me again. Rewind.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

So after all of this, why are we still acting? Because not trying feels worse. Yes, acting is a self-expression for a lot of us. It's not just a career, these are the things that we love to do. It's letting go of making it and focusing on doing it. Right. And tomorrow you try again. And again, not because you have to, but because you want to. Because you want to. Boom! You know what I mean? What a nice little inspiring episode, it wasn't it. I felt like timid in that one. You you you took the lead on that, and I'm I'm gonna read the book now.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

So no, it's a great book. So, yes, if you guys get you get a chance to get your hands on Jenna Fisher's The Actor's Life, a survival guide. Yes, it is so great. Um, and she's amazing, and I can't wait to see what else comes from her career. And she knows. I know Jenna knows. Not that we know her, but I know that she knows that Kayla and I are the best ingredients to the tea in Hollywood. And so one day, I just know she'll be sitting right next to our LVM because she loves this tea, milk and honey. And on that note, see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 49:31

Bye. Stay home.