Milk & Honeys
Milk & Honeys" is the perfect blend of raw industry insights and unfiltered realness. Like the ingredients that sweeten and smooth out a cup of tea, hosts Kayla Becker (TV host of 10 years) and Vanessa Curry (model and actress of 10 years) bring their own flavors to the conversation— Together, they spill the tea on what it really takes to live and thrive in LA’s entertainment scene.
So, grab a mug and sip on some Milk & Honeys—because we’re serving the tea with all the right ingredients.
Milk & Honeys
Episode 37: Why Did We Think "America’s Next Top Model" Was Normal?
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We start with a little life catch-up — how the year is shaping up, where we’re headed, and how two very different Valentine’s Days somehow both ended peacefully (flowers in a custom vase vs. horror movies and shawarma).
Then we get into Reality Check: Inside America’s Next Top Model — the documentary that forced us to rewatch a cultural moment we once accepted as normal… and now find deeply disturbing. From body shaming and humiliating photo shoots to exploitation disguised as “tough love,” we unpack the moments that hit hardest, including the Burger King comment, the smoking and dead fish shoots, Ebony’s sexuality being outed on camera, Keenyah being labeled “gluttony,” and the contestant forced into a gun-themed shoot after her mother was paralyzed by gun violence.
We talk about Miss Jay’s heartbreaking stroke and recovery, the shocking revelation that Tyra never visited her in the hospital, Shandi’s filmed breakdown in Milan, and the infamous Tyra-Tiffany meltdown — all through the lens of adulthood, power, and accountability.
This isn’t about canceling our childhood. It’s about reckoning with what we normalized — and why so many women were taught that pain was the price of success.
Catching Up And Life Updates
SPEAKER_02All right. Ah. Hi. Hi. Welcome. Welcome back, guys. This is episode 37 of Milk and Honey's. First thing I'm noticing is that even our dress life, we're in two different climates.
SPEAKER_01We really are. Kayla is um so over the cold here. Even though we've only had cold weather for two days.
SPEAKER_02And I assume if I dress like this and the weather will follow suit, but that's not normally how we settle guess.
SPEAKER_01It's raining outside. It's raining. And Kayla is manifesting spring.
SPEAKER_02I am the spring dress. Well, how uh how are you? I feel like we've been so fast-paced. Sometimes we don't always sit and just kind of do a temperature check on how the year's been going. We're February. Yes. Almost March. Almost March. How the hell did this happen to us?
SPEAKER_01Insane, you guys. I can't believe it's already about to be March. It's been, it's been great, you know. We've, yes, work has been great. Uh the hustles there, new ventures coming, all the things. How about you?
SPEAKER_02Same. This year, I mean, obviously, I was pretty open last year about, you know, it was just we were all kind of struggling with finding work, and the industry has just been kind of in the shitter. Um, but I have I have firsthand like been um experiencing the shift in the industry. Um, I booked two movies, which is a I know, that's so exciting. And then I have another job coming up that I can't really talk about fully, but it's back getting you back into sports broadcasting. And so um, it's been a year and a half drought, but I'm excited for what's to come the next few months.
SPEAKER_01So same. And you know, we are in the year of the horse now. So we're ready to just go. We were if we were in, I'm I'm gonna snake. Get all the snakes out of the house. We're gonna trample on those snakes with our horse hooves. Yes. So happy year of the horse to everyone who celebrates.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Um, so what do you think has been surprising you uh about this year so far?
SPEAKER_01I honestly, I know we just talked about like the year of the horse, but I do think it's the pace of it. It feels a lot faster. It feels um, and I I mean that in a good way. I I feel as though things are picking up in a faster way. I feel our momentum shifting, even for you and I, separately and together as a unit. And that feels really good. Yeah. Just to keep going with that and finding continuing, continuing to find our balance.
SPEAKER_02Yes, all about balance.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What about you?
SPEAKER_02Sometimes we aren't good at that.
Valentine’s Day, Solo Joy, And Shawarma
SPEAKER_01No, sometimes we're not. But most of the time we are.
SPEAKER_02We are. No, we are. I'm gonna go on like a little mini sobriety journey. I'm this is my first day. But we're gonna We had coffee this morning. Not instead of a chicken. I should have shot before we filmed, which is normally what we do to get through. Uh, we had I had a chai tea latte. Um, but things are good. Like you said, I think we're all kind of feeling the shift and it's exciting. Yes. Last week, obviously, it was Valentine's Day. We talked about our plans going into it, but now that we're a week removed, thank God that's over. How was your Valentine's Day?
SPEAKER_01Great. Um, I did a test shoot with a photographer who is amazing and the photos look so great and I love them. And I got uh actually I got flowers on Friday the 13th. Ozzie knows them very well. So good. So he sent me flowers the day before Valentine's Day instead of actual Valentine's Day, which was Friday the 13th.
SPEAKER_02Why?
SPEAKER_01Because like he was just like, because it's better because it's Friday the 13th. Okay, yeah, it doesn't matter. Okay.
SPEAKER_02I was like, because you're not a horror fan, but you do appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01But I love, I love those things though. Like Friday the 13th.
SPEAKER_02I'm definitely Oh, you like well, you like the movie Friday the 13th? No. Oh, I'm just moving we had a break.
SPEAKER_01I no, I just it's like people who are scared of black cats and like Friday the 13th. Yeah, the superstition. I love those superstitions. So um, yeah. I mean, this morning I found uh a hawk on the balcony, which was crazy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know about that. But if you guys uh have any spiritual meanings behind that, let me know. I I did I did look it up and it's like take a step back, hold the reins, you're powerful, blah, blah, blah, all the things.
SPEAKER_02Better than black crow.
SPEAKER_01I love crows. So I've had a crow land on my balcony, and I think that they're the most beautiful bird. They're just black, shiny. They they're just so they're just massive wings, like black, shiny, massive. Black, shiny, massive wings. No, I love crows. I know people think they're so weird and gross. I'm like, no, they're not. We can watch the crow together. I would love that. Yeah? Yeah, I'd watch that. Okay, great. I could watch that during the day.
SPEAKER_02During the day.
SPEAKER_01During the day.
SPEAKER_02Um, yeah, well, I was alone on the couch, which is exactly where I wanted to be. We had planned, I know we had talked about me, Vanessa had a plan to go see weather and heights, so she still need to go maybe see it if we can find time this week or weekend. Um, and go to dinner. And then I was like, I think we both saw it like we don't want to do anything today.
SPEAKER_01We needed, we just needed a social, uh social battery reset, is what it was. Yeah, and we did, and that's great.
SPEAKER_02We both shawarma, is that how you say it? Shawarma. Yeah, swarma. Have you ever craved something you've never had? I've never had a shawarma rat before. And I was on my couch, maybe I had a partaking of little devil's lettuce. You know your cravings kind of come out of nowhere. I'm like, you know what sounds good? This thing I've never had. I ordered all their flavors. I was like, I'm just gonna have a little shawarma flight here. And that might be my new favorite food. It's like a burrito and a pita with like the best, juiciest meat. I know I sound very uneducated and uncultured right now. I've had the beet swarming meat before. Yes. It's never in a wrap without the pickles and like the sauce. It's so good. I think I want one after this. It's so good. Uh, where do you know where you ordered it from? Uh, I don't remember. Okay. I sat, you know, when you like go on TikTok to find the place? I sat for an hour and a half just scrolling through every place that served it in a way, reading everyone's listening to everyone's reviews, listening to like the crunch when they bit into it to kind of compare. Oh my god. But did it live up to your standards? It's so freaking good. I love that. So that's my new favorite food.
SPEAKER_01I love it. So it sounds like we both had really great Valentine's Day uh experiences, even though we were not with our significant others, because I don't have one.
SPEAKER_02But because you're and I just wasn't. Yeah. Long distance. Um well, uh, and also I I watched a lot of Valentine's Day themed horror movies. So there's more out there than you actually think. Valentine's Hard Eyes, um, uh what's another one? Another Valentine's Day. There's there's just a lot of good murder, murder, slasher, or Valentine's Day movies, which really brought me peace.
SPEAKER_01I love that. So I could we could say that you were definitely not miserable on Valentine's Day. I wouldn't so content.
SPEAKER_02Probably best Valentine's Day yet, even when I was in a relationship.
SPEAKER_01Right. I I had a friend who I saw went out for a Valentine's Day dinner solo. And it was really fun to watch him just like sit there and he mic'd himself up. So like, yeah. So he's just like sitting there and kind of telling each everybody, you know, like, hey, it's it's okay to do this. It's the best people watch. I love that. It's nice just to sit with your own thoughts and kind of like think about, yeah, I don't know, just whatever's going on in your life and um assess your own situation.
SPEAKER_02And just like by yourself with that song that we like, like I am my best my best company. Yeah. I think once you feel that way about yourself, life, I think life just gets so much better when you don't feel the need to always have to have someone there with you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I I don't, I don't know if this is just a Gemini thing. Cause I feel like there's a lot of people that I know that enjoy their solo time, but I always think it's funny when I see memes or you know, funny videos where it's always talking about a Gemini. And they're like, Don't you get bored at home? And it's like, no, you know, like neither one of us, I mean, you don't have pets, but like I have two cats. They keep me very busy. I have coloring books, I have books to read, I have shows to watch. I have like I will drink two glasses of wine or a bottle by myself. Like just so good.
SPEAKER_02You know, how's a sobriety thing gonna work for me? I think you just have to do like wine and like maybe like maybe don't. I can't stop cold cold turkey. It needs to be like a clock like a wean. You don't just like cold turkey.
SPEAKER_01No, okay, it's fine.
SPEAKER_02Also, maybe it's just hard liquor and maybe you just stick to wine. Maybe I don't drink, we don't split a bottle of tequila on a random Tuesday anymore. Right. Growth. Growth, growth, growth. Uh well, speaking of uh, I don't know what the transition is to this, but well, I would say, I would say these poor the growth in yeah, the growth the growth in society, the growth in or the lack thereof.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I think the growth in reality television, right? Like there has been a lot of growth and we've seen that.
SPEAKER_02And well, yeah, we love uh check Netflix out yesterday. Uh Netflix dropped reality check inside America's next top model. Um, and we were talking about this earlier, and that's what you mean with growth is how much we've gotten away from that kind of reality TV. But like I grew up watching America's Next Top Model. I tuned in every week, I was titillated on the edge of my seat, episode to episode, and not realizing back then how extremely toxic that show was, and the way these models were treated, and the way you know, Tyra Banks and company like gave them this like golden dream on a platter, and it was all like smoke and mirrors and it really was.
SPEAKER_01It actually hurt a lot of models' careers and even beyond that, just like mental, but but I mean, you know, even the models that did win, like they they were just so uh it's just damning. It was very, very damning. But what was your first like immediate reaction after you finished it?
SPEAKER_02Tyra is a terrible human being and bitch didn't apologize for shit. I mean, she like apologized, but you she didn't apologize. She's in her mind, she's like, I don't have nothing to apologize for. I did what I did unapologetically. If you don't have a if you have a problem with it, then that's your problem, not mine. It's how it felt.
SPEAKER_01Yes, she kept saying to me, she kept saying, she kept putting blame on the production. Yeah. And she actually put blame on the audience too, in a weird way, saying that, you know, I was just giving what the people wanted and you guys wanted more, more, more. It had to be, it had to be more crazier, more extreme. You know, she she compared it to X Factor at the time, or I'm sorry, Fear Factor at the time. And how Fear Factor was just, you know, that that was like reality television at like a big reality television show at the time. So she's like, How do I do Fear Factor and American Idol? The girls didn't sign up for that.
SPEAKER_02They signed up to be a model, not be like jumping in mud and eating bugs and like pushing their bodies to the limits in that way, like put them through a workout fine.
SPEAKER_01But it was just, they were just a joke for them, you know, to see how much they can push things. It was honestly like my yeah, my end uh reaction was definitely I just felt sad. Yeah, and I was actually, I had always thought about going on the show, and then I did hear rumors how you know detrimental it could have been to your career. Yeah. And so I never did, and then so I did feel thankful that I never I mean, who knows? Maybe I would have never gotten on the show. I was, I'm sure. Well they did the short season, they did the short season, yeah. But I thought I could do it, but I think I was but at that point, people already knew how bad the show was.
SPEAKER_02That was like seasons, seasons later, like cycle like 18 years.
SPEAKER_01It was a long time after it had first aired on television. So yeah, I just it felt I was sad. Yeah, just sad really sad for everyone.
SPEAKER_02And that's like if it felt like nostalgic, kind of, but more like disturbing and almost like I was like disappointed almost in myself for like I mean, I was young. We were young when that show came up. You know, if I if I watched it, like people were watching it now with fresh eyes, like the Gen Z who had never watched it before growing up, and they're appalled, like seeing it wasn't appalling to us because like I mean, you know, early 2000s, reality TV culture, everything was about shock vulture shock factor uh versus entertainment or as entertainment. So it was just very normal back then.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I mean, we we weren't actually watching people chase dreams, we were watching people be broken down, and that specifically was just for storylines.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, cruelty framed as tough love. Yeah, and it was just so cruel, like just watching these girls just break break down. So we're gonna talk about a few of the specific moments that hit differently now. Um, spoil alerts, but also like just go watch it. Um, you were talking about that Burger King comment that really kind of struck a chord with you.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I think it struck a chord with those who don't know. Oh, yes. So basically, Jay um was talking to one of the models and was like of over her transformation, and she was upset. And he's he basically is telling her, like, what are you gonna do? You're gonna quit and go back and work at Burger King. Yeah. And at the time, again, we were young, I didn't realize how hurtful that comment was. And when I remember watching that as like a kid and being like, oh my god, that's funny. But like, yeah, like what are you gonna do? Go back and like not do anything. But how, and even he him watching that, he realizes how distasteful that comments. You can tell he felt remorse. But I mean, yeah, in that moment, it's like, what do you I wouldn't have said anything. Yeah, you know, I I I wouldn't have. I would have just been like, okay.
Body Shaming And Weaponized Makeovers
SPEAKER_02And like it's like that weird thing they just like will dangle over you just because you don't feel comfortable with something like sorry, excuse me. When they could put you through those makeovers and you have no say in them cutting, bleaching your hair, whatever they want to do to you. But if you don't like it and you speak up, okay, well then maybe you're you're not you're not cut out for this, then your dream is over.
SPEAKER_01Just for like expressing your own self. Right. And I've I've had that situation, not that same situation, but you know, I had my eyebrows freaking bleached for a job one time and I didn't say anything and I did not want to do it, and I hated it after, and I cried, I went home and cried, but the people who did it never saw that side, right? Because it's like if you cried and you didn't like what they were doing to you, then what are you doing here? Because they're your bosses and they know best, even though they don't. They don't a lot.
SPEAKER_02They know what's best for their ratings, not what's best for like the person and like the stuff that they say, those throwaway comments that they obviously said just to get under your skin because they wanted the erection on TV. But how like that stuff can like like live forever in your head. And like there were interviews, and we'll go through those, but like of people who are obviously on the show, and now this is decades later or a decade or so later, and how it's they're still so deeply affected, and like watching them get emotional on these confessional videos, just watching it back from all those years ago, just goes to show. One throwaway comic can really alter somebody's mental health throughout the rest of their lives.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I just don't think that that would fly these days. No, no, I just I just don't think it does. I mean, like we said, during 2020, during the pandemic, is when everyone started re-watching and binge watching television. And that's when America's next top model kind of took a rebirth in that world. And that's when people started talking about how disgusting this show actually was. And it wasn't any of us because we were all used to it, but the Gen Z, you know, gener whatever Generation Z, Gen X, okay. Um, they're the ones who kind of were first introduced to it at that moment, and they're like, what the because they've come up in this world of accountability.
SPEAKER_02So people, you can't like get away with doing any of that now on on TV or on any social platform. People get can't, it's we're in the middle of cancel culture now. And so cancel culture wasn't a thing back then. You got away with being blatantly racist on these on these on these shows, and there were no consequences, right? So now I can see as someone who had never grown up in that, and we grew up in that time, those who haven't, I can see how like disturbing and shocking it is for these. Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_01And there wasn't social media the way there is, right? I mean, we saw in the documentary the very first episode that ever Tyra went on to AOL and went into chat rooms to see that what people were talking about, or if they were talking about it. Like we didn't have Twitter, we can just put the name. It was none of that. She had to sign, you know, she had to sign on to AOL and go into chat rooms that were talking about like reality television to see what was going on, you know. It's like now it is so instant, yeah, obviously, like we like we always say, but yeah, that instant cancellation is is very prominent in the I mean, look at this day and age.
SPEAKER_02Since the bad bunny, like Bethie Frankel's now getting canceled, which God, thank God. Thank goodness. I don't know. We make sometimes we make the wrong people famous sometimes. I never really understood. And now she's under fire and now she's being canceled because she had some distasteful things to say about Bad Bunny, maybe ICE, um the Epstein files. She made a mockery of the Epstein files on one of her posts. I'm like, I don't know how nowadays, why you pick up your phone and press record and then post something, knowing like what's her face who got uh just got canned by Bravo. Oh, yes. Like what and her daughter was sitting there and saying, Mom, don't post this, you're gonna get canceled. I don't care. I don't care if people can hate me. You post, you get canceled, and now you're all shocked. Yeah. And that's just how the world moves really quickly now. You you put something online, people are right, people are ready to cancel you. People want, people are very unhappy right now. They want to find successful people and cancel them. So they find a good reason to, and I agree with some of these reasons too. Um, it's gonna happen. But yeah, it just wasn't a thing. Like they were encouraging, it's crazy watching how much they encourage like eating disorders about a girl who with beautiful body, can't think of her name, but she was a little uh wider on the hips, not wide, but like you and I are curvier.
SPEAKER_01But she had she had bigger hips. And they would bully her, like curvier her hips, and she had like no body fat, she just had hips, and that's nothing she she could never do anything about that. Those are like her hip bones, yeah, you know what I mean. So even if she lost all that weight, it would be like hip bones, you know what I mean? But another thing that should have been canceled, yeah, were some of these shoots that they did on America's Next.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. I would wanted to be in that boardroom while they're deciding let's talk about the smoking photo shoot.
Consent, Exploitation, And The Shandi Ordeal
SPEAKER_01Okay, like what why would what part of this is beauty that we're trying to I okay, so if you don't know, they did one episode that was a smoking photo shoot, and I mean smoking, yes, cigarette smoking. And so they made everyone look like they were basically dying of like lung cancer, basically, and uh having a cigarette, everyone had a cigarette, yellow teeth, like disgusting skin, all these things, but they had to find the beauty in it. And when I tell you, I'm sorry, it's like hard for me not to laugh because I'm just like what like you said, what was going on in the brainstorm office room being like, yeah, this is a great idea. This is a great idea. Like this is so and and mind you, back then everyone was was smoking cigarettes, like it was like a thing, right? Like everyone still kind of smoked cigarettes, it was still like a cool thing to do with smoke cigarettes and like all these things, but I just I I yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it's like they mentioned this later in the in one of the episodes about how like they don't have like a like a book. None of these photos you can use in a modeling portfolio to go to agencies and like who's gonna that's not you want head clean aesthetically like head headshots and yes, you know, or lifestyle, you know, you know obviously more than I do, but no, but you're not gonna correct this photo shoot or the one with the dead fish girl and you're lovely hanging by like a fishnet with actual dead fish and they're with you, with fish juices dripping on you, and you're being told to like just suck it up.
SPEAKER_01Look pretty, like who cares? Like, literally lifting this poor girl upside down, and fish guts are dripping on her face, like it is absolutely repulsive. And I is watching that, they show that exact clip in the documentary, and it is insane to talk. I think it was Danny, actually, Danielle is how she goes by now. Um, but yes, I think it was Danielle at the time, and it's just like I I just don't understand. And like you said, even if they could have used those photos for their book, I think it was actually Danielle who even said, I wouldn't be able to because it's too overdone. It's too over photoshopped. It's the makeup, it's too much makeup. Like none of those photos even would set them up for a successful modeling career because those are one-offs, those are more like campaign shots, but like very few and far between, you know, like people want to see the clean and what they want to see the canvas so that they can figure out what they're gonna do to that canvas. And that was just she did not set them up for success at all.
SPEAKER_02At all, at all. It's like I don't even remember an episode where it was just about headshots, like clean aesthetic headshots.
SPEAKER_01Maybe the very beginning, like the very first season, maybe when that their shot, their um, I'm sorry, their what am I trying to say? Their billboard. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Was was them in black tank tops, dark denim. That's true.
SPEAKER_02And their I think all their like campaign shot. It was like something like you'd see on the gap or something. But that's it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think those are the only times they did like clean-ish makeup was for the billboards, maybe sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so again, not setting them up for for success. No. My least favorite photo shoot, I think, of all time, and it was discussed in it, was the one uh that was like they were beat up and abused. Like it was like uh it was glorifying physical violence and of an abuse. So it was just all these women did photo shoots, looked like they got beat up, punched in the face, teeth knocked out, and you had to look like you were dead or pass out. And my least favorite one was um the contesta. She, her mother had been shot and paralyzed when she was younger. So in her, and they knew about that. They talked about it in the interview. And the fact her specific photo shoot for that was to be shot in the head and to look dead. The fact they chose that for her, knowing her mother was a her whole family's been affected by gun violence, was one of the most disgusting displays of art I've ever seen. And I think um Nigel, the photographer, said it in there how much like looking back, how absolutely that was probably his biggest regret is doing that, doing that photo shoot. And again, why?
SPEAKER_01Why would you put these girls through? What's the point of that? Like again, but again, if you were to ask Tyra, she would say, it's because you guys needed us to keep pushing the envelope. It's like no one was asking to push the envelope.
SPEAKER_02No one was asking for that. They want to see a girl's head blown on.
SPEAKER_01No, we want to see how to pose and model and and and learn. You know, this is not teaching anything. It was just, yeah, it's it's it's it's not, like you said, evaluating their emotional consent as opposed to their contractual consent, right? Because contractually, everything was filmed. Everything, you know, they signed on to that. But at the time, there were no laws and there was no, there was nobody trying to take care of these people just in case if something bad goes on.
SPEAKER_02And they didn't agree, they didn't sign a contract to be traumatized. No. Now you do wonder as cycles, you know, continue because they there was there were a lot of seasons, a lot of cycles that the girls who are signing up to later seasons know that this is kind of how it could be. But those earlier seasons where they had no idea that they would be put through this kind of the ringer like this. None. It's just like the way it was just misrepresented on every and like you're right, none of these girls probably had any kind of representation. No one was looking out for them. I know a lot of them lost relationships with their families for even going on the show. So who could they even turn to? Right. And nowhere to go back to them.
Outing, Racism, And Hair Trauma On Set
SPEAKER_01Nobody, nobody. I mean, you know, it's like we talked about this too, about Ebony, one of the contestants, and she was um, she was gay at the time, and she had told them that in private. She hadn't come out yet. She had not come out yet. She did have a girlfriend at the time. And in the episode where they do the first walk with the judges, she is outed. They out her disgusting. And she handled it so well. And she was only 19, you guys, I think, at the time is what she said. She was like, she was freshly out of high school. Yeah. And so she said that, you know, obviously she wishes they would have pulled her aside and said, Hey, can we talk about this on the show? And she said, I probably would have said, yes, of course. Like, you know, but she said, not even her family knew that she was out or that she was gay at the time. And so to be outed like that and then have to have those conversations in a in a timeline where she did not want to have it like that. Like that's so disturbing.
SPEAKER_02And also her going into that show, being one of the only black women, very dark-skinned uh black women, who, by the way, they ruined her hair and the makeover by shaving it and giving her bald spots. She was made fun of her being ashy by the other girls. Like she was just, and then now being outed as gay, like this there was there, you could not ever convince me that anyone cared about the well-being of this girl. No, no, no. They were trying to break her. And she was one of the ones doing the interview on the documentary. Now her, you know, much older.
SPEAKER_01And there, and and her, it's just like the comments, they didn't even have black hairstylists working on her hair at the time, which was insane to me. It was uh just crazy, especially with Tyra Banks being a black woman, a black girl.
SPEAKER_02I think that's why a lot of the black girls were so confused. Like you said, like my sister is gonna really understand me. Like, this is my sister, like she's gonna get it.
SPEAKER_01But then she was the one person that Right. And then you're sitting there and you have these white women with uh razors who were not even using the right razors to cut her hair, yeah, to shave her head, and as they're doing it, making comments of like, Oh, should we write her name in her hair? Like making jokes about her. She's just sitting there listening to it. I'm like, And she's so stoic and so just she looks like a regal goddess who is just taking this all in, and it's just so unfortunate. I it's it's really, yeah, it's really, yeah, like all these black women, or even women of color, like any type of woman, thought they were going on this show and they were gonna be protected because Tyra Bix is a black issue.
SPEAKER_02Because that's what Tyra Bix's whole thing is. I'm gonna make the modeling industry different for women like you and for not the normal just white. Oh, what that's all you wanted was white and super thin. I think a lot of it was a little triggering to me too, because growing up young and growing up like one of the only uh mixed kids um in my well, only one in my family and one of the only ones in my school. I remember going to school nine or ten years old, not knowing what being ashy was because I didn't have any weight. And I yes, a girl, I was ashy, but I was bullied for that. Like was I I became like I was buying so much lotion after that because I was like, and then my hair was very my natural hair is very kinky and very curly, it's very black hair. And um, yeah, and again, like I had people like joke, and even my family, they weren't trying to be mean, but they'd be trying to do my hair and they couldn't. And there was, I remember just being like interiors because they were just talking about how unmanageable my hair was and difficult it was, something I couldn't really help because of my genetic makeup. And so God, my heart just went out to her just watching it firsthand, how these women just bullied her to her face.
SPEAKER_01And her, she was in the first season, right? She was she was the first season, yeah. Um, yeah, it's just it the hearing the judges tell her that, and then her overcompensating with like putting lotion on and then when she's putting lotion on, yeah. And then and then the girls having to sit down with her saying that um I just need you to like wash your hands like after you're done because like you touch the doorknobs and it gets really greasy and like it gets on like the couch, and like the boy wanted to punch her face, which was really unfortunate because the woman, the girl who was to her was the one in she, but she also is not she's also a yeah, she's like she's Latinx or something, yes. She's not a white woman either, so it's just like it was just weird. There's no sisterhood in there, none at all. And I get it, it's a competition, but at that point, it's like this isn't even about a competition, this is just about someone's well-being and empathy and having empathy. And there was like none of that. And there was none of that shown.
SPEAKER_02It's very much a display of hurt people, hurt people, because all those girls in there were battling their own demons. And then I think they would kind of you know project that onto another one of the girls by going as low down as you possibly can in some of these comments. Um, so you've obviously been modeling for how many years now? Oh my gosh, a long. I always say, don't ask me. I've said it so many times. Like 20 years, like 20 years.
SPEAKER_01What a great number to be on right now. 20 years.
Tyra’s Meltdown, Teeth Gaps, And Control
SPEAKER_0220 years really easy. I haven't modeled since I was born, just not officially. Um on Instagram. Follow me. Um, so I know you mentioned earlier how your eyebrows were bleached without your, you know, which you didn't want to. I know you've been blonde for roles before. Uh, do you ever feel like your identity was something that, you know, other people felt entitled to? That's control.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Like for for ever and ever and ever, I, you know, I had somebody touch my hips when I first went in to go see agencies when I was 19 and tell me that my I should just like shave off a little bit. You know, it's like shave off a little shave off a little bit on the side. No problem. And don't get me wrong, I I was I was definitely a little bit uh on the thicker side, but not thick, if that makes sense in a normal world. But I was a little bit thicker when it came to like modeling world. Again, this is 18 years ago, right? So it's like, um, yeah, but I mean it did. It I every time I would go into my agency, I would always have anxiety, like, oh my God, do I, I I I wouldn't eat for like a whole day the day before. Like I tried to get an appointment earlier in the day so that my stomach was flat. So when I went in there and had to do my photos, like I wouldn't look fat. You know, like that's those are the things that I would always think about. And it's not it wouldn't even be healthy. It would just be like, how do I look as skinny as possible? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02On just on the healthy to get seen. Like that girl was eating pickles, and that was her only meal for like the day. And yep, you just had to do. I mean, back then we didn't like these days. There's GLP ones, there's like other ways to like get thin really fast. I mean, God, the models saw GLP one back then. They would be like, Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01But like, could be I they wouldn't have to, they wouldn't have had to eat cotton balls, you know what I mean? Because like they'd be happy with the clam. Yeah, yeah. Super models used to eat cotton balls backstage. Cotton balls. Cotton balls, yeah. Wait, really? Yes. How do you digest that? Is it because it's cotton? So it's just go through the ball. It just it just goes through. So it would it would fill you up. It would fill you up, and then you would just, yeah. Cotton balls. I've never heard of that. Yes. So back in the day, I never ate cotton balls every day. Cocaine and cotton balls.
SPEAKER_02That should be a big bottom book called Cocaine and Cotton Balls. Literally. Oh, yeah, crazy, crazy work. So a couple of other girls we want to get through. Uh Kenya. Uh oh yeah. So she had, they were fat-shaming her. And she was not all fat at all. There was a there was a plus size, I guess. Where all the girls were given like one of the seven uh deadly seasons. They give her gluttony. Okay, that seemed a little like she's like, maybe that was a coincidence. No. Then they were uh all casted as different animals for a shoot. They give her elephant. So then her, she was like so upset because like now this is my storyline. My storyline, the public narrative of my story now is public is body shaming. And now I'm the fat girl. And she had no control over that. This is just who they decided to make.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And also made her uncomfortable in situations where she did speak up. There was one situation where there was male models and they were doing a dancing uh tribal dance shoot. Oh, that's right. And and and he was groping her and groaning and like moaning in her ear. And she stops the set and tells production, like, hey, I'm just a little uncomfortable right now. Like he's doing X, Y, and Z. And they made her feel like she was absolutely crazy and insane. And they were watching it. They were watching it and said, Well, if if you like, even Tyra in the interview, she's like, Well, you know, I was just trying to tell her, like, you just tell guys, you just tell models to like just just stop it. Ha ha, just stop it. For a woman to say that is crazy to me. Crazy. But I will say, I do have to agree with Tyra on that. Is like, that's how I was taught. If someone is doing that to you on set, you just say, ha ha, okay, like like back up, like, and you make it a joke because you don't, god forbid, you you make the set uncomfortable because you're uncomfortable. But it's like, what? No, you're uncomfortable for a reason. Speak up and you should be protected. And that poor girl was not protected at all.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so one of the most devastating um scenes that we saw play out, I think, during the entire run of America's next top model was about Shandy. Um, when they were in Milan, which is all the girls are so excited. A lot of these girls have never left the country before, been on an airplane, and now they're going to Milan to model. This should have been the best experience of their lives. Absolutely. However, Shandy, uh, God bless her, God bless her heart, she was filmed. So these boys uh who were taking them to what do you call them go see? What are they? Um Vespas. Vespas to their Oh to the go-sees.
SPEAKER_01To the go-sees.
Firing The Jays And Loyalty Questions
SPEAKER_02To the audition. I'm a model. Oh, the go see. Go see. Go see. Yeah, go see. I just put that together after all these years. Oh my gosh, I love go see's because it's like you go see. Yes. Okay, we got to go. You're go, you're going and they're seeing. You go see. Oh my God. But yeah, so they also I thought it was weird, but they're fine with these models to um get get Vespas, and then all the girls would choose their model and they would go around to their go see's around the city. Well, then later that night, they get back to their their house and they're like, let's invite the guys over. So they invite them over, they're drinking, everyone's getting really drunk, they're in the hot tub. And then Shandy, who was open about having uh uh very committed long-term relationship with her boyfriend, um And a virgin, right? Oh, and a virgin. She was a virgin, got very intoxicated. You see her in the in the hot tub making out with this guy, and he's at a point where you know, like she's too messed up right now to be in this situation. Um, and uh yeah, she ended up having a very drunk sexual experience with this guy, losing her virginity, all of this on camera. And the most disturbing part about all of this is the fact that productions there filming this, knowing this girl, she never said it was sexual assault. She doesn't say it. Right. I think it's implicated. I think if you watch it, especially as a woman who's been in a situation like that, you can tell that this she was not this was not a consensual experience. No. They film it, they don't pull her out, they don't help her, then they film her calling her boyfriend to tell him that she cheated, which was well, which which is crazy too, because they didn't have access to phones.
SPEAKER_01So she says that she was she this was eating her up inside, that she wasn't able to like talk to anybody about it. And out of nowhere, they have a cell phone. Oh, and she threatened to leave. And yeah, and so out of nowhere, they find her a cell phone from somewhere and say, You can call your boyfriend, but we have to film it. Because contractually, we are filming the good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful, the fun, the joyfulness, all of it. And that right there is just so insane. And she even said that after they were done filming, it was only a cameraman and uh the sound guy in the room with her at the time. And they came up to her and apologized and said, We're so sorry that we had to film that because she was just on the ground in a fetal position crying.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it was you heard the boyfriend's voice, and he could just tell he was broken, called her a stupid bitch, which I'm not condemning him for that. Yeah, yeah. Like this, they were saving, I think, each other for each other. They had talked about marriage. This was her virginity, and once he was like, Well, what did you do? What did you do? And she's like, the worst possible thing you can do. And he's like, She's like, He goes, You had sex, and he goes, Yeah. I could just feel like I'm getting goosebumps right now and chills and how devastating. And again, all of this forever, forever. She's a grown woman now, will be out there for people to see.
SPEAKER_01And she said that they tried to stay together after that. But every time that they would walk around and someone noticed her from the show, they would call her names, and uh it was just too hard for him. And so she said that they did try, but they couldn't ultimately get past that. Get past it.
SPEAKER_02And that would have happened if it weren't for the lack of protection.
SPEAKER_01One thing, but that big situation.
SPEAKER_02That big situation, yes, and what makes it even worse worse is pile on, add more insult to the injury. Tyra obviously wasn't remorseful about putting this poor girl through that because then she goes on Tyra Banks' talk show. This is years later. Years later. And by the way, um, Shandy said she had never watched the video back of this sexual experience she had on the show. Yep, it was too hard for her. She never wanted to watch it. She told Tyra Banks she never wanted to watch it. What did Tyra do on her show but roll the clip? Make her sit there on her show to get her reaction of her watching. Yep. And again, these young girls are way more mature than the people who are supposed to be protecting them because she handled it with Grace. Exactly. But I just can't imagine what went through Tyra's mind to put her through that.
SPEAKER_01Again, I got well, that that's actually the second time she did that because in Milan, when they all go to the there's a clip of them all going to dinner a couple days later. Yeah, oh yeah. And Tyra out of nowhere starts talking about being cheated on when she was in Milan by her boyfriend.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_01And then opens the floodgates again. And you it's just like when we you watch back, you're like, oh my God, this was planned like to a T for this poor innocent child who not only production, like her, her, her castmates didn't help her. No, you know, I've I would love to think that if I saw somebody that belligerent on a set, I I would help them and make sure that that doesn't happen, especially when they all knew her story. They all knew she was a virgin, they all knew she had a boyfriend, they all knew that. And I know it's not their responsibility, but come on. Like, if I if if you and I were there, if I saw you getting, I would I would be there for you and help you and be like, hey, no, like we're going to bed. Yeah, exactly. Somebody, nobody's your little Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_02Sorry. Some mics are getting pissed off at this point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, she's mad too.
Blackface, “Homeless” Shoots, And Harm
SPEAKER_02Um, so obviously, yeah, we saw like how you know the show weaponizes people's vulnerability, turning shame into content, and like how they love to treat people, like their lowest moments are musty TV. Um, and I the question go, you know, it goes like, would a male contestant have been handled the same way? Would this have been a different situation? With the, I mean, you know, would they have been exploited in the same way?
SPEAKER_01And I think the answer is probably no. I think the answer is probably no as well. And I think that because I don't think that men at the time, even young men, would have put up with that. They probably would have fought a lot more. Whereas us women, especially back then, we still didn't have like the voices that we have now. Yeah. And so back then it was shut up, do what you're told, smile, look pretty, and don't cause any trouble. Yep. And men, even men back then, we were like, fuck that, I'm causing trouble. Like, I don't, I'm not doing this shit, you know. But that's just how it was back then. And that's why a lot of men are so uncomfortable with strong, independent women, because we have voices now and we know how to use them. And we are going to use them to fight for what's right. Because if not, then what the hell are we doing here? No, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Um, sorry, I'm all over the place here. I'm just scrolling through. Um the the okay, how about the the tirade? The Tyra Tiffany meltdown. One of the most iconic scenes of all time. We've seen it played out on like Family Guy when they've kind of reenacted it. Um, Tiffany was uh a black girl on the show that Tyra kind of had, or I don't even know how much I believe how much she actually cared for this girl, but she acted like she had like a kind of a personal investment investment into this girl. So her first time auditioning, she didn't get the show, she comes back. Beautiful. Um, and this is a scene where Tyra is like, I've never spoken to a girl. It just absolutely goes freaking berserk for no reason because you thought Tiffany was making a mockery of it after she got eliminated. Yeah. And she was just putting on a brave face. Yeah, she's gonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_01She wanted to cry and storm out. That's probably what she wanted to see. Yeah. And she she was she was not, it wasn't even that she was like making fun of the show. She was just like joking around, like, guys, don't like, yeah, don't cry over me, like da-da-da, you know, like whatever. And and even she said it when Tyra makes them come to the center of the stage again and says those things to her, and she says it, she goes, Hey, I'm just upset. Yeah, I'm mad, I'm upset. Like, I just got eliminated, you know, almost like let me let me process this the way I need a process, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like I'm camera in a situation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Like it's just it's and I mean, even the panel, the panel they talk about it on the documentary too. And there they said after she did that, and the two girls who got eliminated left, they had to pull Tyra off the stage and make sure she was okay. Everyone was scared, everyone back there. You can see them jumping a little bit. All the judges, like, whoa, even Nigel talks about it, and he's just like, I was scared. Yeah, and I'm a grown man.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, yeah, I can imagine like being on the receiving end of that. And poor Tiffany had a tough go at it. This is also one of my most upsetting moments is when she had a beautiful gap in between her teeth, fellow gap girls. And I know my gap was something I was always insecure about growing up, and I always wanted to close it until I've gotten older, and now it's like, no, this is something that makes me unique. Tiffany knew that at a very young age, and she loved her gap and she loved herself and she loved her face. I admired that so much. And they told they took all the girls to the dentist, which is crazy. They went from doing makeovers in the salon, yeah, now fixing out doing actual medical work on their faces to reflect their smile. And they told her she needed to fix her gap and she didn't want to. And they said, Well, then you're gonna go home if you don't fix your gap. Yep. So they forced her to go close up her gap in her in her teeth. Which is just insane.
Modeling Realities And Learning To Say No
SPEAKER_01I mean it feels like abuse. I mean, it was abuse, but like it's it's just like it's so hypocritical for Tyra as well, because she in the beginning is sitting there saying, I want to change the way that the modeling industry uh perceives us. Yeah. And so I want, I want to bring in obviously what the people want, these girls who have already, they already look like a model in this day and age, but I also want to bring in those girls who who don't necessarily look like models to people first, first and foremost, and who have the who are uh androgynous or they have the the gaps or the freckles or like you know, just like interesting features, but then yet you're sitting here trying to take them away. Yeah. I that to me is so confusing for so many women specifically, especially like we were all so young watching this unravel and thinking that that's okay.
SPEAKER_02And that like, no, maybe I'm not beautiful because Tyra says that that's not beauty. Yeah, and then what a couple of seasons later, she actually put a gap into a girl's face. Yes, literally added a gap into a girl's teeth, which is all which also did not look good. Um, like Tyra ruined her face, ruined the other girl with her dinner work too. She has issues to this day with to this day.
SPEAKER_01I mean, also tell also one of the girls was kind of like in the middle between um a curve model and a regular model, and she told her to gain weight to become a plus size, a plus size model at the time, which is just and signed her to got her signed to an agency that had no plus size. No plus size. Well, because she won the show. Yeah, and so when she goes to the agency, IMG models, I believe it was at the time, there's no division for curve and or at the time, I'm sorry, plus size at the time, but now we call it curve. Um, and what how what work was she gonna do? Yeah, and and Tyra, it's not like Tyra's sitting there, you know, texting her and making sure she's good. It's like, okay, here you are.
SPEAKER_02You won't buy that that also was a crazy because all these uh uh talent shows and competition shows, like even like America's got talent and whatever, you see them win, and it's like, so what happens now? And more times than not, unless you're the Kelly Clarksons of the world, or like I feel like you don't see a lot of these winners of these shows really do anything after after the fact because they're not taken care of. They don't have guidance, they don't care about them. This literally is for ratings and for their show, and they do not care about you. And it was so apparent with all of these girls. Like, who is the most successful model to come off of America's next top model?
SPEAKER_00I mean I mean, I'd be curious to figure that out. I'd be curious to figure that out. Too, but I I I maybe I don't even know. I don't even know. We'll look it up and we'll look at it, we'll do a little thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, uh, but that's crazy. Well, obviously, I think the backbones of her show were the Jays, of course, and Nigel, of course, and then one of the craziest moments that happened on that show is all of a sudden the three of them getting fired. Yeah. After Jay already tried to leave and got treated like absolute shit when he brought up the Tyra.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And you could tell, like you could literally tell that episode where he's talking about saying, Um, I got there and I was so scared. He was on the panel, it was his first panel back, and he just like didn't know what to say because she wouldn't talk to him. But she would only talk to him on camera. Yep and then off camera.
SPEAKER_02It was almost scary watching the difference. How she'd go from like stoic, she wouldn't even talk to him, then camera.
SPEAKER_01She's like, What do you think? Yeah, you know, and it's just it's insane. It's so it's insane, which is which is interesting because you know, her saying that she had nothing to do with it, let's let's not be real. I I I mean, let's be real. Let's not be real. Let's be real. Tyra is not real. Um, yes, you did, and that's that's okay. You can own up to that. You wanted to have control over that narrative.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Like, you're the big no, no one can fuck with you. You can fire these two guys. And one thing that really was made me sad at what Jay said, he goes, She didn't even give us our dignity. No. The least she could have done is be like, you know what, we can make this mutual. She agreed to do. They're gonna go off and do other things in their career. Give us our we spent all this time building this with you. No, you wouldn't even give them that. Like, what kind of person? And yeah, stop lying, saying you had nothing to do with that. And then leaking it to the press.
Are Things Getting Better And What’s Next
SPEAKER_01Leaking it to page six, are you joking? Then leaking it to page six, just trying to clear your name out of everything. And it's just, it really is just insane. And a lot of people had these questions for them. Why did they go on to this document and do this documentary? And I think a lot of people don't realize that Tyra Banks did not produce, she did not executive produce, she did not have anything to do with this documentary except for coming in and being a guest.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_01And so that is why they would they're willing to do it. They agreed to do it. That's why I think everyone agreed to do it because none of these people had good things to really say about Tyra. Some of them did say that, you know, the show did help them in some ways, um, which is great. And I love that for them. But majority of the people on there were not saying anything nice about that woman. So that's really unfortunate.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, we can all agree that Tyra's confessions in the document documentary didn't seem genuine. Um, felt very like, I mean, I just almost wonder like what the conversation was for them to all agree. Like, did Tyra know that these guys were being interviewed, like without knowing what they were gonna say? Like, I just almost wonder how much each knew going into it. She had she had to have a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01She had to have known who was being interviewed. I'm sure she has an idea of who they were gonna ask. I'm sure they she knew Nigel and Jay, the Jays were gonna come in um and and some of the models, but maybe she didn't know who else, like which which models were gonna come in. Yeah, exactly. It's just it's just that thing. I mean, also like we can talk about really quick, like just like Jay. Oh yeah. Miss Jay, you know, having a stroke.
SPEAKER_02Our queen of the runway, Miss Jay.
SPEAKER_01She's now learning, she, she's now learning how to walk again and talk again. She had a stroke, yes. And the producers ask her if I keep calling her her, but she likes it. She is Miss Jay. Um, the producers kept asking her, you know, have had Tyra visited him in the hospital. And he said, no, which is crazy. Five-week coma, never visited. Never visited, never seen a call. She said that she got a text from her saying that she was going to visit her. So he said that I am still uh waiting for that visit, but that's all I ever had from her.
SPEAKER_02It's like how do you abandon someone who literally helped you build your like how do you just abandon someone like that? You know, insane. What does loyalty look like? It just goes to show is she loyal just because the cameras are on? Well, they think the answer to that is yes. I know she and Jay, and I mean they were like best friends, you know, for a while until Jay expressed that he wanted to leave and pursue other ventures in a very nice female. Um and then it just went just goes to show if it's not about her and her empire, she don't give a shit about you. Right. Exactly, unfortunately. And you think silent sometimes is louder than cruelty for me. It is. If you're like if you give me the silent treatment, that to me is like the hardest thing. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I would rather let's talk about it. And if there's a yelling match, then like let's let's blow it up. Well, then we'll yell it out. We'll get the steam out. You know what I mean? Yeah, like oh, just so many things. It's just I know.
SPEAKER_02Um lots of lessons, lots of lessons. So I know we're running out a little bit of I can't actually see what that says, but uh, we'll just run through this real quick. Um, oh yeah, just a couple other problematic segments that they touched on. The switching ethnicities. Oh, yeah. Which she did do just one time. She did in two different series. Uh literally blackfacing people. Um, homeless people used as props. They literally dress as they dress as homeless people because Tyra Banks was homeless for a whole day once when she was a child. Just once. Just one day. She wanted to make sure she could like and literally with random homeless people and go put the girls looking homeless into a photo shoot with him, which is absolutely I wonder if those homeless people got paid. Probably not.
SPEAKER_01No, they did not. They probably maybe got lunch catering. Maybe that's it. Which is uh which is insane and just absolutely who benefited is representation so harmful if it's if if it's careless, and the answer would be yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02If it's careless, that's not she didn't do anybody any favors. Who benefited from being uh blackface and made it put into being a Native American woman or being exp exploited as a homeless person? Who benefited from that other than the people who are getting their pockets full? Exactly. Exactly. It's just it's it is uh man, it's I know. Uh before we go, obviously, uh she has been a model for 20 years. So I just wanted to get kind of your perspective as we close this out. Um, when you're watching it, just how much of that culture felt familiar to you? Like, did it feel have you experienced those extremely toxic situations?
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure, for sure. I've I've been in plenty of it. I I will say I do think times are changing because I have seen it, which is a beautiful thing. Um, but yeah, the early 2000s, doing what I'm doing, just like I said, people had no shame in saying exactly what they wanted to say without any filter. And so um what were you taught to tolerate to succeed?
SPEAKER_02Like what the what's like what's one thing you left you realized it was really hard for you to put up with, but you did it anyway, just because you had to.
SPEAKER_01Um, I would say just honestly, just like the rudeness of people, like feel the entitlement of people, just because of their role, they're the photographer, they're the creative director. It's like we're all humans, and you can talk to me in in a way that's not degrading in order to get your shot. Yeah. You know, and and like, and just because we are technically uh a prop or like a hanger for your clothing or whatever idea that you're trying to bring to life, we still are we still have emotions and feelings, and it doesn't have to be this rigorous to get this beautiful shot. Yeah. That's what I've learned. Like it doesn't have to be a toxic set environment in order for it to be like the best set ever. Like it can be a fun environment. Like, obviously, there's always gonna be stress. Yeah, there's always stress on set no matter what. But like that, let that be the stress, not anybody else. Don't add on to it.
SPEAKER_02Um, did ever did saying no ever feel like it would cost your career? Or did anyone ever threaten that you would lose your career if you didn't do XYZ?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We've talked about it. The the whole lingerie thing where it's like the the director comes in and is like, you know, trying to force me to put on this lingerie. And I'm just like, no, you're not gonna do that. But maybe if I was 18, maybe I would have just done it. Yes. I would have been scared and been like, oh shit, like I don't want to lose my job. But at this point, I wasn't. I was in my maybe late 20s at this point. And I'm like, I've been doing this for a long time already. You're not gonna tell me I know the rules. Yeah, you're not gonna bully me into it. Did I cry after he left the room? Yeah, I did, but I still stuck up for myself and he never saw me shed a tear. But it's like, it's things like that. I've had, you know, makeup artists who shouldn't be there who were on medication and uh, you know, poked my eye and made me bleed. So it's like there's just, but I can't like get upset over that. Otherwise, I look like the crazy person. I've had a hairstylist chop my freaking extensions off that cost$500 because they went were going through a breakup. You know, it's just like things like that. But you have to just breathe and let it go. And like, because at that point, if like I said, if I would have said something right then and there and flipped my shit, they probably would have sent me home. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh well, young ladies out there, young men who are considering entering the modeling industry, the entertainment industry as a whole, just don't let people force you into an uncomfortable position just because you want the opportunity. Yes. You know, your dignity is worth more than anything you can book at the end of the day. You're the one who has to go to sleep at night and look at yourself in the mirror. So just you know, just kind of keep that in mind. It's hard as it might be. Um, but yeah, as going back to the documentary, go watch it. Seriously, I know we talked about a lot, but go watch it. Um, none of these girls are set up for success. No, they're just thrown to the wolves after the show and it just goes to show at the end of the day, it's all about the production company's little paycheck. Absolutely. So, absolutely. Um, but anyway, yeah. I mean, I get so like upset about it so about this.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I look at the end of the day, if we we we should close it out on like a happy note, is that our industry is working on it. I can feel it. It behind the scenes, yeah, things are changing. I I will say one thing that I do notice with men who are uh, you know, trying to get me to change my position on a set or something like that. Now every time a man has to touch me, he'll say, Hey, can I grab your shoulders to position you? Which in the beginning it was really weird for me because I'm like, why are you asking me this? Oh yeah, most of the time they just grab your shoulders, like, hey, no, this way, this way, turn. And like the director's like, tilt more, more. And you know, like they'll like keep to turning you. But now it's gotten to a point where they will ask you. And so that's one thing. I'll I'll give it to them, you know, like or people putting the mic, you know, most of the the sound guys are guys. And so instead of just them going for it and doing it, they ask if it's okay, like if they can, or if you want to put the mic up your shirt or whatever.
SPEAKER_02They're making efforts again. Making little changes.
SPEAKER_01So I will say I do see little changes happening. I know it's not the entire industry, but uh I I see uh a change and for the for the pot for the best, for the positive.
SPEAKER_02So hopefully they'll keep going in that direction. So it's just gonna continue understanding why the stuff was normalized back then, and like that's how you continue changing it. Exactly. Because remember, empowerment without care, all that is, is exploitation. Tyra Banks, we're talking to you. Yes, exactly. If you guys watch America's Next Top Model growing up, what uh moments are you rethinking now? We want to hear from you guys about what you think after you watch it because I'd be curious to see kind of what shifts in your mentality after watching it.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And while you watch it, just remember you know, if you guys need a really good beverage to watch America's next top model, milk and honey's is the best in two ingredients that you can put in your tea. And trust me, on this documentary, you're getting all the tea.
SPEAKER_02You might want something strong.
SPEAKER_01You might, yeah, you might want to like put a little Bailey's or like tequila in there in your tea and swish it around, it'll be great.
SPEAKER_02But we will see you guys next time. Yes, we got a special guest in next week, so make sure you guys tune in.
SPEAKER_01Bye. Bye.
