Let Discomfort Guide You (Not Stop You)

Matt and Joy kick off their brand-new podcast by getting real about something no one likes to talk about: discomfort. Not the kind that signals danger—but the kind that shows up right before something big begins to shift.

In this debut episode, they share the stories they’ve never told publicly—the raw, vulnerable moments that almost made them quit this path altogether. From Matt’s on-air ambush at a major radio station to Joy’s very first appearance on national television, they open up about what it took to move forward when everything in them wanted to turn back.

What if those messy, uncertain moments were more meaningful than we realize?

You’ll hear how spiritual alignment often arrives disguised as chaos, why doing the scary thing is sometimes the kindest thing you can do for yourself, and how to walk toward what’s calling you—even when it’s terrifying.

If you’ve ever wondered whether you're off track… this conversation will help you see that you're right on time.

Connect with Matt and Joy

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MattandJoyKahn

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mattandjoykahn/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mattandjoykahn

X: https://x.com/MattandJoyKahn

Join our Weekly Energy Update: https://www.mattandjoy.org/weeklyupdate

Transcript

Joy: You've done the mindset work, you've taken the courses you've meditated, journaled, and visualized the life you want. So why does the breakthrough still feel just out of reach? 

Matt: Welcome to the timing effect, a podcast for leaders, healers, and visionaries who are ready to stop circling and finally breakthrough 

Joy: through raw, honest, unfiltered conversations.

We pull back the curtain, not to hand you tips and tricks, but to reveal the deeper patterns and align strategies that unlock real momentum. 

Matt: These aren't temporary shifts. They're energetic recalibrations that ripple across your entire life from your relationships and purpose to your business, body and inner peace.

Joy: We are Joy and Matt Kahn, and after guiding thousands through massive transformation, we know breakthroughs aren't about doing more. They're about aligning with what's already waiting for you. 

Matt: This is the space where clarity meets timing, where energy meets action and where everything finally starts to click.

Joy: This is the timing effect.

Matt: Oh my God. Is this our first podcast episode? 

Joy: It's our first one ever. 

Matt: Wow. Why did I just lean into the mic like that? 

Joy: Because I. This is really new for us. 

Matt: It's very new. Reminds me of my parents when I, they'd call me on their cell phones that they just got and they would, they would, they would put it in their mouth.

Hello? 

Joy: So are you saying that we're aging ourselves in the podcast world? 

Matt: I'm, I'm sure of it. 

Joy: Okay. 

Matt: But very first podcast episode. Everyone watching Welcome. And, uh, how does it feel? 

Joy: It feels really exciting. 

Matt: I feel very excited. 

Joy: Yeah. So we wanted to share, I think just be, come have an opportunity. Be really real.

Matt: Yeah. 

Joy: And be transparent. We have no idea what we're doing and that's okay. We have a really strong intention. 

Matt: Yes. 

Joy: We both really wanted to share from our personal journey 

Matt: for those that are listening or watching, saying. Who are these people? 

Joy: Yeah, who are we? 

Matt: I'm Matt Khan. 

Joy: I'm Joy Kahn. 

Matt: Uh, obvi. We're married.

Obviously. 

Joy: We are married. Maybe it's not obvious. Maybe 

Matt: it's not obvious. If, 

Joy: if this is the first time someone's listening, uh, may not be obvious. 

Matt: Yeah. But we are married and we have both been teaching in this field of personal development spirituality for 18 to 20 years. Our teachings were very complimentary before we even knew each other.

Mm-hmm. We met. We fell in love, our powers combined, and here we are bringing, uh, something new, radical and refreshing to the world. And we thought, not just in how we share through our teachings, but we'd love to share who we are as people. 

Joy: Absolutely. We really wanna just, I think, lift the veil. Yeah. And share what it's like to live this work.

Mm-hmm. And so what is our work? Our work is spiritual awakening. 

Matt: Yes. 

Joy: Personal development. 

Matt: Yes. 

Joy: We really love to help people see themselves and fall in love with life, fall in love with themselves, and fall in love with life. And I think that our devotion, at least when I first met you, 

Matt: yes, 

Joy: that's what I fell so madly in love with, is that I was meeting someone who had the same devotion that I did to the work.

Matt: That's exactly what I felt when I met you. You know, when we met and we fell in love instantly, I've described it as our devotion to God. Fell in love with one another. Yeah. And it was beautiful. Mm. And uh, it was funny when you said that you go, when I first met you, I'm like, oh God, is it not that way anymore?

I win you over. I still 

Joy: really feel that way. Thank God. Yeah. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joy: I still really love you and I still really love this work like this. In fact, you know, we've, we've been talking about this. I think we love the work even more. 

Matt: We do. 

Joy: Being able to come together like this to be able to share, but then be able to have someone on your journey you can reflect with.

Matt: Mm-hmm. 

Joy: I think that's, you know, we hear that. I, everybody says that. Everybody says, I wish that I had someone that I could talk to share with. You know, I think that's why a lot of people wanna have the kind of, um, deep connection that we have. 

Matt: Yes. 

Joy: And sometimes we only have that with a friend or two, or maybe someone in our family.

We're really lucky to have that with you, to be able to co-teach. Um, bill is sharing this space. 

Matt: Well, I, I, I love that. I feel the exact same way, and I'm equally blessed. We're, we're blessed to serve the world together, our love for serving humanity. And, and you know, in this episode we talked about calling it, we almost didn't do this.

Yeah. And it was because we first got started. What we both have in common is we both had really. Surprising experiences when we've, when we brought ourselves out to teach publicly. Mm-hmm. And you know how, how well you could read that title. We almost did do this and think it applies to the podcast, right?

But it's actually, we almost didn't do this work because of our experiences, but how did we allow adversity to motivate and inspire us instead of spook us? 

Joy: Yeah. 

Matt: In fact, we, when we met, you told me the story of how you got started and it super touched my heart. Uh. Do you wanna start with Yeah, your story.

'cause I think, I think it's, uh, it's, it's, it's super resonant and mirrors mine, but I just thought it was such a breathtaking example of, of trial by fire. 

Joy: Hmm. I love that. Well, I almost didn't do this and it's so truthful. Mm. When I started to come into this field, I didn't know there was a field. I didn't know there was a place for me to show up and share my journey.

I didn't know anything about coaching or healing or teaching or personal development. I was just awakening. Mm-hmm. 

Matt: I 

Joy: was just discovering that I think I'm not my body. I think there's more to this world. And my curiosity was leading me toward, uh, the first part of my journey was self love. Mm was I want to love and bring wholeness to myself.

There was a lot of, uh, personal pain, as you know. Yeah. But there was a lot of personal pain in the early part of my journey and a lot of things I hadn't looked at. So I was just starting that healing journey. And in part of that healing journey was, um, taking a deep look at. The body I was in, and I was in a body that I didn't really love.

I didn't treat very well. I didn't have a lot of nice thoughts in my head, and I was a hundred pounds overweight and I felt very uncomfortable and I felt very unattractive and I felt like nothing, um, that I brought to the world really mattered. I think because of how I felt like I was presenting in the world.

So I began my journey by discovering, I discovered one book that changed my life, and it was a book written by Dr. Phil, and it was Self Matters. This was a concept that really wasn't on my radar. I 

Matt: remember that book, by the way. 

Joy: Yeah. I 

Matt: remember watching an episode, Dr. Phil, not the one you were on, where he was promoting self matters.

Mm-hmm. And I remember him talking about some of the concepts, and this is way when I, yeah. Before I really got steeped in spirituality and I thought. I resonated with it. I was like, wow, you know? Yeah. It was almost like I didn't wanna resonate with it because it was with Dr. Phil. Right. I was like, ah, Dr.

Phil. 

Joy: Right. I don't wanna 

Matt: admit that you really nailed it. 

Joy: Exactly. Kinda like 

Matt: how I first felt when I listened to country music. I was like, I don't wanna admit how much I love this. I can't admit how much I love Garth Brooks. 

Joy: Yeah. Well, Dr. Felt 

Matt: really, uh, hit that one outta the park. 

Joy: Absolutely. So it's funny because I was thinking about how I even discovered the book.

I was literally sitting on my couch with root beer and Doritos watching an episode of Oprah talking to Dr. Phil about the book. 

Matt: Interesting. 

Joy: And um, and I thought you my 

Matt: best question, by the way. 

Joy: Yes. 

Matt: I didn't mean to interject 'cause the story is so good, but, but I'm just curious. 

Joy: Yes. 

Matt: Are we talking cool Ranch Doritos?

We're talking nacho cheese Doritos. 

Joy: They were the like double nacho, like really, really cheesy nacho. Double nacho. Did they? I never knew they made double nachos with, with. Um, with bar's root beer, I think it's very important that we distinguish between a and w and bar's because barks has that like kick to it.

Does 

Matt: it really? 

Joy: And it may, it's so good with the cheese, like it compliments that deep nacho flavor. See, this is 

Matt: why you're my wife, because you're giving me a culinary breakdown, a flavor profile of chips and root beer, which for all of you, uh, listening and watching, uh, this is one of my love languages.

So this is. The chemistry that brings Doritos and root beer together. So please continue. This is amazing. 

Joy: So I, and I love that. I love that. I knew that would matter, that the fact that I was having the bared root beer with the nacho cheese mm-hmm. This is an important part of the story. Okay. So I put the bag down.

Yeah. And I put the root beer down and ordered the book. So it was from that moment forward that I realized I needed to take action and I discovered something so profound that someone could create impact in that way. And now I'd always loved books, I'd always loved writing, I'd always loved stories. And, um, deep personal development.

You and I share, you know, favorite books from our early childhood. We both were deep thinkers, um, very young. Probably made us very weird children, and that's okay. But I. I fell in love with this book because it just broke down the process that needed to unfold, and it literally changed my life, page by page, journal entry by journal entry.

I began changing my life and I lost the weight. I lost the weight literally by falling in love with myself every day. Waking up saying, I'm gonna love myself. And of course I walked and I changed my eating. And one day when I was feeling incredible gratitude for losing a hundred pounds, losing a hundred pounds in about a year, it was.

Really quick, and I loved it. I actually fell in love with the journey. It became a personal dev develop, uh, uh, personal trainer. Mm, and started realizing that, oh, I could learn these skills to help better my life and shift my story. And so in this deep moment of gratitude, I sent an email to Dr. Phil. I had no idea if it would ever get to him.

I didn't know, but I needed him to know how much he touched my life. So at the time I was thinking he probably doesn't know. He probably doesn't know how much he's making a difference in the world. And so I sent him this really personal email, just this is my story. I am so grateful I've lost a hundred pounds.

Thank you for the impact. I hope you know what you're doing in the world is making a difference. Mm-hmm. And the very next day I received a message from them back and squealed out loud because not only did I hear back, but they were so excited and inspired by my story that they wanted to send a film crew out to capture it, and then they wanted to bring me on the show.

Matt: My goodness. 

Joy: So, uh, again, I knew nothing about this field or this industry, or that there was a thing called personal development or helping others. What I knew is I loved the feeling of being able to tell my story and to inspire and help others. 

Matt: Mm-hmm. 

Joy: And so I shared. Everything. I shared my deep pain, I shared my trauma with, with their whole team and their film crew, and I opened up and just, you know, shared every single part of my life, including opening up my fridge and showing them my food and telling.

It was just, it was such an interesting experience. I dunno if you've ever had that kind of thing where people are like in your house filming everything you do, obviously. Yeah. Right. 

Matt: Things similar to that. 

Joy: Yeah. And you're just, all of a sudden you're just, your whole life is on display for other people.

Matt: Right. 

Joy: That was a first for me. I'd never had an experience like that and they said, you know, we'll keep the personal things, the really personal, intimate things. We'll keep that personal and we'll go and we'll just talk about the success on the show. We'll just talk about the, how you broke through and what you did to shift your life and that will really inspire others.

So I felt really excited and good about being on the show. Well, I get to the show and I'm the very first segment. I walk out onto the stage in front of, I don't know how big his audience was at the time. It was way more than five people. I'm sitting on the stage with all these bright lights having done my pose in front of everybody, you know, look at, they showed my before and then they were showing me after on the reveal, and then I sat down and almost the very first question was about my trauma from childhood.

Oh my goodness. About my sexual trauma from childhood. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: And I felt, um, wow. I felt like this person that I had of course put on a pedestal who changed my life. This man who wrote this book that saved me 

Matt: mm-hmm. 

Joy: Now was airing it all on national television and I felt like a deer in headlights. 

Matt: Right.

Sharing your, your personal trauma mm-hmm. That they told you would be private. 

Joy: Mm-hmm. 

Matt: For the hope of television ratings. 

Joy: Right. 

Matt: Wow. 

Joy: I was, I was very naive. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joy: I was very naive. And it was also one of the most amazing things that I ever did. 

Matt: Mm-hmm. How so? 

Joy: I got to share my story and even though I na, you know, I had to navigate the, I think I felt just embarrassed.

Yeah. You know, sitting on stage and, but I moved through it and I kept going. Um, to my surprise, I somehow. Eloquently shared my story, and from that the show got a lot of emails. 

Matt: Hmm. 

Joy: The show started getting all kinds of emails coming in saying we loved Joy's segment. We'd love to know more about what she did.

We'd like to hear more about her. Mm-hmm. And so they asked me if I wanted to host. At the time it was called a forum. It was on their website where I got to answer questions. So they asked me if I wanted to host a forum and answer people's questions and share my story, and I was really excited about it.

Wow. So I did. And that's when I started to learn about, you know, having an audience or having, you know, this thing called coaching or support that I could help people. Sure. And so I had this beautiful, I think I had 5,000 people reading, um, every day, whatever I posted on this. You know, this, this is way back when, you know the internet was new too, so there's a lot of new things going on in the world.

Matt: We had to log on to America online. 

Joy: Yeah. There was like this, you had to wait for like the sounds, the dialogue, like the dial up, that that still existed at the time. Yeah. So I was learning a lot of things, but I discovered this field. I discovered that I could help people. 

Matt: Wow. 

Joy: And um, that led me to go back to school and finish my degree in psychology and decide to change.

What I was doing to be able to support others, and it opened me up to this path. And so rather than having that moment be something that stopped me from doing it, it was the moment that said, even though I'm gonna do it anyway. 

Matt: Right. That's amazing. 

Joy: Yeah. 

Matt: I loved that story and I loved the first time when you shared it to me it was, or shared it with me.

It was so inspiring and that you allowed that moment of adversity and that moment to become an opportunity for you to shine that you weren't willing to let the moment. Be anything else but a doorway into Yeah. Helping others. I think it's so, I think it's so inspiring. Um, you know, because I think it's for, for anyone watching or listening, I, I think it's easy to say that's not what we agreed to.

Mm-hmm. I don't like how I was treated, and so here's what I'm gonna do to defend myself. And yet sometimes we're closing a door prematurely. On an opportunity that gives us a chance to touch so many lives. 

Joy: Yeah. I had, I remember having a moment. It was like one of those flash moments. Yeah. While I was on stage where I wanted to kind of hide.

Matt: I'm sure. 

Joy: And then I, there's something that in me just shifted. 

Matt: Mm. 

Joy: And it's in that moment that I knew this is my purpose. 

Matt: Wow. 

Joy: Like I'm here to do this. And whatever that was, it's okay. I'm learning, but. The ability to see people read their messages, to have somebody, and you know what this is like? 

Matt: Yes. 

Joy: To be able to have people just, you know, they, they walk up us to in the grocery store and they're like, Matt, you've changed my life.

Yeah. And like that 

Matt: happened what, yesterday at the art store? Yeah. Art supply store. Yeah. Yeah. 

Joy: So I think that that's, that's been something that's kept us both going is I know, I, I think that the reason that keeps us going. Is because our heart truly wants to do this work. 

Matt: Mm-hmm. True. 

Joy: I think that's so important.

So when I shared this story, what I loved is you immediately started giggling and going, you know, I almost didn't do this either. 

Matt: Right? 

Joy: And you almost didn't do it. I almost didn't do it. And I thought my story was, um. It was embarrassing. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: But I think that, I mean, especially the way you tell it. Yeah.

I don't know that many people would move through what you moved through. 

Matt: Thank you. Well, okay. So it's so funny the parallels we have in our lives and we started to get to know each other. We, we found out how many parallels, so, okay. So when I first got started, so you were a personal trainer? Yes. Um, I used to be a personal trainer.

Uh, long story short, I got injured on the job helping someone lift. It was a very simple lift, not a lot of weight, but a weird awkward angle to bulging discs. Um, healed miraculously and went through a series of awakenings and I started becoming aware that I had intuitive gifts. They became really prominent.

I was guided to help people, and it just led to this spontaneous, uh, series of events where I took a. A, a psychic development course at a spiritual book bookstore. And then they asked me to teach it in the middle of it, which was weird 'cause I'm just taking this course. And they asked me to do readings at a psychic fair.

And I didn't, I didn't even know what that was, but I just did it. And so then all of a sudden I had clients and I'm working in this spiritual field and I'm a personal trainer who all of a sudden is now working as a intuitive healer. Mm-hmm. And I don't know any of the paths. I don't know any of the books.

I don't know any of the teachings. I just know it intuitively I hear in my head. Like someone whispering into my ear and I tell that to people. Hmm. And so that when I started, and this was for the first 10 years of my career, I would tell people answers intuitively, and I would listen to their questions and I would listen to what I would say.

And that's how I kind of pieced together all the different paths because I haven't read any books, right. I just. Know what I know. And so I learned as I taught, which was a very interesting way, but in the very beginning, so, okay, so I, I started doing psychic fairs. Um, I go from being a personal trainer to a intuitive healer, and I really don't even know what that even means.

And most of the people that I meet, they're healers, they're doing things that just, I only know what I do. And what I do works for me. Mm-hmm. And so I thought in the back of my mind, you know, you always have this healthy thought of I'm either onto something or I'm crazy and I should, I have no, no reason to be here.

So I'm, I'm in LA where I was ready lived, where I was raised, and there was a morning show on K Rock Radio, which was the very popular. Alternative Rock Station in Los Angeles right back in the nineties. That was, you know, where like Nirvana was launched and you know, all the Pearl Jam and all these bands.

So, but in the morning they had a show called the Kevin and Bean Show, and that was a longstanding morning radio show with Kevin Bean and at the time their intern. Whose name was, they called him, intern Jimmy, and intern Jimmy turned out to be Jimmy Kimmel and went on to his career, so that's where he started.

So they would always have these really interesting, colorful guests. And I remember once they had this psychic on and the psychic was. In my estimation, and this was when I, when, when my spiritual ego was, uh, incredibly fresh and vibrant and healthy. It was, uh, let's just say my, my, my spiritual ego at the time had had a new car smell.

Oh yes. It was just fresh outta the factory, and my perception was this intuitive. Is asking more questions and delivering insights and they don't know what they're doing. Mm-hmm. And if I was on the show, oh, would I shine and be amazing? So similar to you writing to Dr. Phil. Mm-hmm. I emailed the Kevin and Bean show and said this and to this psychic doesn't know what he is talking about, but I would love to show you, ah.

What, what, what, what intuition is really about Because when you live in Los Angeles, even if you're not in the Hollywood scene, and I was raised as a child actor, didn't do much as a child actor, but I had the experience of performing for many years. You're always looking for an opportunity. Mm-hmm. So if there is an opportunity for you to get in front of someone and sell yourself, that's just how you, this is how, that's just the culture.

So anyway, emailed the producer. I could show you what it's really like. Then like a day later, I got an email from the producer, Matt, we're so grateful to hear from you. We'd love to bring you on the show and have Kevin be an interview you and you demonstrate your abilities. And I thought, oh my God. And so for, for a couple days before I went to a LA to film this.

I'm telling all my friends. Yeah. I'm going on the Kevin I'm Bean show. I'm being interviewed. I mean, I just started in this industry and I'm thinking this is my launching path. Mm-hmm. They're gonna make me a regular feature of the show. I'm of course gonna be a celebrity. Mm-hmm. And, um, this is where it's all gonna start.

And you have this, uh, beautiful delusional grandeur. And so fast forward to that morning, I go to K Rock Radio Station, they bring me up the elevator to whatever floor they introduce me. To Kevin and Bean. Um, at that time, the, the, uh. Intern Jimmy became intern Ralph, and you meet all these different characters and it is just, it, it's, it's an iconic studio because they have all these framed records of popular bands.

It's real. And I listen to K Rock for most of my childhood and adolescent, so it was like really surreal. So I meet them all, they're all excited to meet me, and they're all so nice. Mm. They were so nice to me and I was so unaware. And so they brought me into the studio and they sent me down. Hey, we're so excited to be here.

Yeah, you're gonna be great. So you, here's the microphone. Uh, when the green light's on, we're on air. When it's red, that means we're at a commercial break. We're gonna pause, be silent, and then we're only gonna talk During these segments, we're gonna interview you. You're gonna take a few calls. You're gonna be on for three segments.

And I thought, oh my God, I was born for this. My big break under the, under the lights in the big city. And. And of course, you know, they, they don't know the difference between an intuitive and a psychic, right? And then they went to say that they, they sent psychic. And before we went to air, I said, oh, it's really intuitive.

They go, oh, well, we'll, we'll talk about that on air. Okay, so we go to Air Live, green Light. Hey, K Rock Radio, Kevin and Bean Show. We are here with fake psychic, Matt. And it turned into an impromptu roast. Every part of me, I was roasted on air and had didn't see the setup coming at all. No. And I sat there first just listening 'cause I don't want to interrupt anyone speaking 'cause I, I, that's just not how I am.

And I was sitting there stunned. I can't believe I'm here. I can't believe of all the ways I visualized it happening. This was never a possibility. Mm-hmm. And so they're like roasting me and attacking my character and joking about me. So what is it like to be a fake psychic and, and all this stuff? And, and I just, I, I, I answered every question.

It was, it was actually very funny because. I was, I was funny on the interview in a very unintentional way because I would answer each question earnestly instead of getting offended, and I was very humble and I, I, I apparently held my own in the interview without being defensive. I took some questions from the audience and it, and, and what was interesting is when we go to commercial break.

Like after the first segment of being completely roasted by these guys, we go to commercial breaks, so the green light becomes red and they're just all staring, facing forward. No one's talking to anyone. No. And that was actually worse than the roast. It was the, the, the commercial breaks were, no one is even looking at you and, and you're just feeling like, is this even happening?

And then we go back to live and it's back to the roast. And, and so after the three segments, and it ended. They all turned to me, Hey, you were great. Thanks so much. Pleasure to meet you. They'll, they'll show you out and validate your ticket. Thank you so much. Validate your parking. Oh my gosh. And I went downstairs.

I wasn't sure if I was gonna throw up or pass out. And I started having my friends call me. How did it go? And I go, I, I don't, I don't even know. And I kept, I started thinking like, I, I, I need to switch career. I need to move. Yeah, I need to move. I need to change my name, I need to do something. And the segment aired.

It was on a delay, and I started getting emails from friends and people that knew me. I had given out my email to do readings at the time, and I got so many emails of people that said, wow, they were so harsh. And you came across so well because that was the first. That was the first public moment of surrendering, like publicly.

Mm-hmm. Where I felt like I was being, my character was being assassinated. They weren't just rose to me. I mean, it was, it was harsh. 

Joy: Yeah. 

Matt: And it was unexpected. And I was in my early twenties and these were 30 to 40-year-old men who, who were merciless. Right. And. At first I thought, I can't believe this because, because I looked up these, these were some of my idols.

Mm-hmm. Thought they were funny and they went from being my idols to being like people who turned on me. I didn't know how to even process that. And then I got all these emails of how well I came across, and it was actually the first moment where. And for those of you that know my first book, whatever Rises, love that.

It was actually the first moment that where whatever Rises, love that was born where I chose humility and love and respect, even in the face of feeling attacked and ridiculed. Yeah. And I, and it had been such a wound for me in my life, to be ridiculed, to be made fun of, to be bullied. And in the past I'd always tried to.

You know, match that fire with fire and, uh, retaliate with something witty. And this moment was different. This was, uh, this was just a complete surrender and realizing that, that, and what came through that space. Was actually more profound and magical than what I had envisioned and planned for that moment to be.

Hmm. And it was really the moment of not only whatever rises, love that being born, but it was the moment where I realized what, however I think this needs to go is maybe not the way it's gonna be and the way it's gonna be is probably gonna be better. 

Joy: Oh, I love that. 

Matt: Yeah, 

Joy: I love that. 'cause there's so many pieces of that where, you know, our stories have parallels.

Yeah. But they have very unique differences in, um, how they unfolded. Right? Yeah. Think about being roasted and then your own reflection on. You know, I was afraid of people not liking me. Right. And so all these things kind of, it was like the perfect storm created by the universe to develop certain things within you, 

Matt: right, 

Joy: right.

To develop that strength, that inner knowing, and then that incredible book you wrote, like it real, like to think about, you know, we go, go back and think about those moments in our life that were so uncomfortable. And they've always been worth it. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: They've always been worth it. That, for me, that moment on Dr.

Phil, it was perfectly crafted for me in that I felt ignored and disregarded and like, I didn't matter. So it wasn't like I was trying to please anybody. I just felt really disregarded. Right. Which was my perfect experience. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: Right. Given my upbringing and the things, the patterns that I was navigating in my healing journey.

So I look back and I go, you know, the, the discomfort that we moved through 

Matt: mm-hmm. 

Joy: It was the thing that just, and I think happening publicly 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: Prepared us for, you know, if, if we're gonna do this work, it's gonna be in front of others. Right. Whether it's, you know, on a podcast or on a, on a TV show, or just in front of our clients.

Matt: Well, and, and I look at both of our experiences and really, you know, we had two uncomfortable experiences. Mm-hmm. But we didn't let discomfort, um, interrupt. Or prevent us from walking through the doorway of progress. Right. And I think in our relationship, you know, something that we always talk about is even like our values or maybe even like a mantra, we always talk about progress over comfort.

Joy: Yeah. 

Matt: And there are pro probably, um, people and you know, in. I thought this too at the time, but there's probably a lot of people who would think, if that was my first experience, that might be the universe telling me this isn't the way to go. And if I have a moment of discomfort, that might be a sign that this is the wrong direction.

And as long as everything is comfortable and everything is quote unquote in the flow. But you and I both agree that we don't think that being in the flow means that everything is comfortable. Being in the flow means whether it's comfortable or not. We're always choosing to move forward based on the progress we intend to make and the impact we wish to be a part of.

Joy: Oh, absolutely. And you know, as we were sharing this, it was thinking about so many of the conversations I've had with other people we've both had with other people mm-hmm. Is also not knowing what's next can be so uncomfortable. Not knowing what their purpose is, not knowing why they're here. And both of us were, you know, we had become personal, um, trainers, 

Matt: right?

Joy: And then something else happened, 

Matt: right? 

Joy: We started to awaken to something else. So we started off with this focus of, I wanna become a personal trainer and I wanna do this for a living. And then something else happens and it says, no, you're doing this. And then something else happens. Says, no, you're doing it like this.

Right? And that can be really uncomfortable. Right. That's not, we like to know what we're gonna do, when we're gonna do it. We like to know that we're safe. We like to know that people are gonna like us. That comfort you're talking about, 

Matt: right? 

Joy: And yet, every good thing that has unfolded in our lives has come from the moment of accepting that it's going to be uncomfortable, right?

To fulfill our purpose and to make progress. 

Matt: I love how you put that. And we were talking about this morning of a breakfast. Mm-hmm. And we were talking about how. There is a misconception in the spiritual development arena that says the goal, if your vibe is high enough, if your chakras are spinning, you know, fast enough, really big, really big, if you've really done a lot of work, you'll be immune to discomfort.

And we had talked about it and said that it's not really about being immune to discomfort, it's actually about having a. Conscious relationship with discomfort and allowing discomfort to not be something that turns you away from the progress and impact that you're here to make. 

Joy: I love that. Yeah. I, I think it comes back to also knowing that when discomfort is happening, why it's happening.

Matt: Mm-hmm. So 

Joy: I think there's a difference between just having an uncomfortable life. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: Right. Because. There is, we do wanna create a, an easier, more peaceful life for ourselves. Sure, 

Matt: sure. Right. We've done a 

Joy: lot of things, a lot of uncomfortable things. 

Matt: Yes. 

Joy: To have a more comfortable life. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joy: So we have a comfortable life, but we continually do uncomfortable things.

Right. We do uncomfortable things regularly. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: But because we do that. We know that when we're being asked to do something uncomfortable, we understand why it's happening. We don't get stuck in a life that's uncomfortable. 

Matt: Great distinction, 

Joy: right? 

Matt: Because I think a lot of people can say, my life is so uncomfortable, I just can't bear doing something else.

I. Of discomfort, don't I deserve a break? And then that's, that's often when we will confuse self-love or self-care mm-hmm. With something addictive, repetitive, and actually very self-defeating. Mm-hmm. So I think I love the distinction of the difference between a hard life mm-hmm. And the difficult things that.

Are helping to initiate us into the purpose that we are here to grow into. Absolutely. Live out. And what's interesting about that is in my upbringing, you know, I, I was raised in a, you know, a wonderful family. It was also very emotionally volatile. Mm. And the emotional state of particularly of my mom or the, uh.

The ebbing and flowing level of communication between my mom and my dad basically set the emotional state of the household. Mm. And so I lived in a family where things were the way they were, and there weren't any options. So it wasn't actually until I got into teaching spirituality where people would say, is there any way that we can make this less painful?

And in, in all honesty, when the first time I heard that, it blew my mind because I. It wasn't like it blew my mind because I was judging someone for thinking that it blew my mind because I had a realization of, I have never thought that in my life I have always had to adjust to the. Temperament of fire.

I had to learn how to be so comfortable living in fire that because I could develop comfort in normalcy and fire, I lost my ability to recognize how toxic it was for me to live in that environment. Mm-hmm. So what I love when you say there's a difference between doing uncomfortable things and living an uncomfortable life, I had gotten so used to finding comfort in fire.

So on one hand, I. Yeah. Doing uncomfortable things for me, I can make look very elegant. Mm-hmm. Because I'm used to that. But then the idea of also creating a life of comfort has been a very, a little bit of a foreign concept. Mm-hmm. So it's amazing that I was able to rise to the occasion in that interview because the discomfort and embarrassment wasn't necessarily foreign to me.

It was just unexpected in that environment. Yeah. But then I had to learn the difference between, okay, I know how to make. Comfort out of fire. But can I actually also be comfortable in myself without needing a fire or the opposite energy to balance against. Mm. And that, and that's been my, my growing edge for many, many years.

Joy: I love that. I, I mean, I think we both resonate so deeply and you know. Hopefully those listening in can feel that like there, there is a really distinct, um, difference right in those two. And it makes me think about how also when we're in those moments of having a difficult life, 'cause I spent, you know, a great deal of my time in my twenties where everything was difficult, right?

It was self-imposed, right? Like I just started creating this life of chaos. And in that. What was very difficult for me, I thought I had a receiving problem, right? Mm-hmm. We hear people say that, well, I just, I just need to open myself up to receive, and yet it's, they wanna receive the goodness, and I was, I was her.

I wanted to receive the goodness of an easier, more comfortable life. Just wanted things to be easier for a little bit. Mm-hmm. I remember I would say that all the time, if I could just get a break and things could be easy for a time, then I could just get ahead. But if someone offered me an opportunity for ease.

I rarely walked into it because I was so in the chaos of my life that I couldn't even see an opportunity for ease. 

Matt: Mm. 

Joy: And it's not that I needed to accept the ease, it was actually that I needed to accept the discomfort. Mm. I needed to invite discomfort into my life so that I could then move into a harmony with discomfort.

Matt: Yeah. 

Joy: Right. Rather than completely resisting this discomfort or this uncomfortable life. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: I had to embrace discomfort so that I could walk into it intentionally saying, I know this is gonna be hard, but this is the thing that's also going to give me ease. 

Matt: Right? 

Joy: And so then I would allow myself to have ease by allowing myself to have discomfort, 

Matt: right?

Joy: That was the key for me. When I realized that it was welcoming, the discomfort that completely blew my mind. 

Matt: Mm, and 

Joy: opened me up to, oh, when you do the uncomfortable thing, really great things unfold. Not that life has to be harder. You always have to have a hard thing. But Right there is a connection to that harmony.

Matt: It's interesting because I would be comfortable in fire, I'd be comfortable in difficulty. 

Joy: Mm-hmm. 

Matt: But I stopped seeking relief. I stopped seeking. And I think that for me at a younger age became a false sense of peace. Yeah. I, you know, and really it was just a form of adaptation. I was just trying to adjust to my environment.

So if people who are listening to this and are, and are thinking to themselves, so what, what are examples of the type of difficulties we choose to embrace and the difficulties that we shouldn't tolerate? 

Joy: Hmm. 

Matt: How, how would we distinguish those two? 

Joy: Well, I mean, we could go back to the example, just from the beginning of the conversation.

The story I was sharing. It was a lot easier to keep eating Doritos and enjoy Oprah and be inspired. Right. I could be inspired by all these amazing people and keep doing what I wanted to do and I'd have some comfort, right? For me, eating was a comfort I loved really good. We still really love good food.

Yes, we do. We still know it's comfort and there are moments when it's just delicious and comforting. And I could have stayed in that temporary comfort. But the difficult thing was, I'm gonna get up every morning, and I started walking five miles. That was actually the beginning of it. I started with, I'm gonna walk until I can get to five miles and I'm gonna walk and get to five miles, but I'm also gonna get up every day and I'm gonna put lotion on my body first while I'm putting my clothes on, and I'm going to say, I love you.

Beautiful. Which was actually really hard. 

Matt: Yeah, 

Joy: especially at those moments, you're looking in the mirror going, not so sure. Right. But I would do it anyway. And this is an example of the hard thing. And then I would go and walk as far as my body would take me until I got to that five miles and then I, I was able to do it quickly.

It became easy. So I, it, that's the idea of walking into something intentionally difficult. But by doing that, not only did the walking become easier, but my body became lighter. Shopping became easier. A lot more clothes fit me. I was out in public and meeting new people, the way that I showed up in the world changed.

I had an easier time socially in my career, in my life, not because I was thinner, but because I had done this difficult thing that said, I priorit, I prioritize you joy. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: That was difficult. 

Matt: Right? That's, I, 

Joy: I had grown up believing I was an afterthought, that I wasn't the priority to anyone in my life.

So to do that, I. To make yourself a priority when you have no example of that. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: Was the hardest thing I've ever done. I continue to push that as you know, you and I continue to push that. Right, right. But it's whatever the next thing is. Whatever the next difficult thing is, it'll be the hardest thing for you in that moment.

And I think that's the key to it. Whatever the next hardest thing is, it shows you the way, it shows you the path. 

Matt: Well, I, I love. Just as you talk, I can just have, it's like I'm watching a movie in my, my, my mind of what you're saying. It's interesting. So when I wrote Whatever Rises, love that. What I would notice, because you know, you write a book, you know, you teach it, and everyone's gonna interpret a vi variety of ways.

Mm-hmm. And some, some of the ways it was interpreted was instead of doing the difficult thing that. I can't control, um, I don't like how vulnerable it makes me feel. I'm just gonna love myself instead. Mm-hmm. And I, I think what's amazing about this conversation, especially what you just reflected, is that it's not loving yourself instead of the difficult thing.

Right. Right. It's, it's not either. Loving yourself or the difficult thing. It's, and Right, it's loving myself and doing the difficult thing. Mm-hmm. Right. We, we kinda word it as, uh, and is the new either, 

Joy: right, 

Matt: right. So it's not, or, or, or, and is the new instead. Not of, instead of doing the hard thing, I'm just gonna love myself.

And then you, and then self-love becomes this weird form of bypass or avoidance. Yeah. But I'm gonna love myself. And even in our life, we, we see this all the time, and you and I constantly do difficult things. Mm-hmm. And we constantly rise to the occasion and we love ourselves and each other. And we do the difficult thing, right?

It's not, we did, we almost did the difficult thing, but instead chose to love ourselves. And again, there are times where we're gonna love ourselves, but we love ourselves. We show ourselves that loving attention. Mm-hmm. And then we do the difficult thing and we also understand. That not no amount of self-love is gonna make the difficult thing less difficult, right?

It's just that we're going to carry ourselves through difficulty. We know it's gonna feel difficult and it probably won't feel less difficult until we're on the other side of something new, becoming something I just experienced. 

Joy: Absolutely. I, you know, I, I love that that really is like, that's the con mantra.

Matt: The con mantra and, and is that the concept of the day is the, 

Joy: is the concept of the day. I love that. Oh, we will apologize now. We'll probably use that a lot. We'll probably use anything that we can get con into, we will, but yes, absolutely. And I love this because. When we are focused on the and mm-hmm. It allows us to have those moments where I know I'll come to you and I'll be like, I don't wanna do this thing.

Matt: Right. 

Joy: Like, I'm really scared, like, if we have to, you know, do something in our business that feels really hard or challenging if we have to, I feel like we do that every week. Yeah. And so we're leaning into those things and I'll, I will, I'm not afraid to come to you and say, honey, I do not want to do this.

And, 

Matt: and, 

Joy: and I love us and I know it's the right thing and I know what's on the other side, so let's do this together. And so the same things we've been doing since the beginning. We're still doing now. 

Matt: Well, we first came together, our relationship came together incredibly quickly, and we both shared our, our fears about coming together so quickly.

And you shared how scared you were and I shared how scared I was. And then we, we agreed on. Well, let's just be scared together. Yeah. Let let being afraid be the next date we go on. Oh, and And it was a beautiful way for us to love ourselves and do the difficult thing, not love ourselves instead of the difficult thing.

Joy: Yeah. And I. You know, just like we continue to do, we agreed from the very beginning we will do the scary hard thing and, and we will love each other through it. Yes. And uh, congratulations on getting through episode number one. Did we really just do it? We just did episode number one. Oh my God. We really did, did it.

Feels amazing. We just walked through that. Not sure. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joy: And I loved it and I love everyone listening in and I hope they loved it too. 

Matt: I hope everyone who's listening just loved that. And. We will continue to put out more of these and, and we hope you, uh, we, we, we are so excited for you to take this journey with us.

Joy: Yeah. Thank you for being here.