What Happens When A.I. Gets Smarter Than Humans? (Shocking Truth)

What if being “smart” has nothing to do with your report card and everything to do with how you think, feel, and move through the world?

In this season finale, we’re pulling back the curtain on the surprising truth about human intelligence and why it’s so much bigger than grades, degrees, or IQ scores. From being told we were “too smart” for the things we loved to navigating learning differences no one spotted until adulthood… we share the moments that shaped how we see intelligence now.

We’ll take you inside the three distinct “brains” you already have: the mind, the heart, and the gut and why bringing them into harmony might be the most powerful thing you can do (especially in the age of AI).

You’ll hear:

🌱 Why mental intelligence has been overvalued (and what we’ve been missing)
🌱 How emotional and instinctive intelligence can save you from “smart” mistakes
🌱 The unexpected human advantage AI will never have
🌱 Simple ways to create more coherence between your head, heart, and gut

If you’ve ever felt “not smart enough,” pressured to know all the answers, or worried about keeping up with machines, this episode will help you breathe easier and remind you that your intelligence is more than enough.

❇️ Buy Our New Book HERE: https://www.mattandjoy.org/awakening-of-intelligence-book-links

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Transcript

Matt: Have you ever felt like being smart means you have to know everything all the time, 

Joy: or that your worth is measured by grades, credentials, or how fast you can come up with the right answer? 

Matt: In this episode, we're redefining what it really means to be intelligent and why your mind is only one part of the story 

Joy: because you don't just have one brain, you have three.

Your head, your heart, and your gut, and each one holds a piece of the advantage. No machine can match. 

Matt: If you've ever doubted yourself compared yourself or felt not smart enough, this conversation will help you see your intelligence in a whole new way. 

Joy: It's time to stop trying to keep up and start tapping into what you already have.

Matt: Welcome to the timing effect.

Can you believe it's already the season finale right now, not series finale. But this a finale of season one. 

Joy: I'm really proud of this season. I think we've had some really great conversations, but I'm also equally excited about all of the amazing conversations we have in store for next season, 

Matt: season two.

I'm chill. Yeah, I all is said. I think this was an incredible first season. Uh, from the comments we've read, everyone seems to have loved it just as much as we love sharing and season two's gonna be incredible. But before we get to season two, if today's episode Yeah. 

Joy: Which, you know, really, you know, we, we started off this podcast at the beginning with an idea of all these episodes we wanted to do, and I think we did two of those 

Matt: lead zero with the 24.

Joy: But it's because of everybody listening in. They've suggested so many amazing things. The comments have been so beautiful and they've inspired us to go in different directions, which we really appreciate. So thank you all for tuning in. This season has been amazing and we are all just getting started. 

Matt: It literally wouldn't have been the same without you.

So thank you so much and please join us for seasoned 

Joy: two. So today, today we're gonna talk about intelligence. So we wrote a book called Awakening of Intelligence. We did, and I think there's so much nuance to that conversation, even from when we wrote it. 

Matt: Yes. 

Joy: You know, the things that we've come to understand or to reflect upon, and one of them really is the nature of intelligence.

What is intelligence and what do we mean by awakening of intelligence? And as we keep awakening to new information, new ideas, and the world keeps changing and everything seems like it's just shifting so quickly. What does it mean to really be intelligent? 

Matt: Well, and when we think about the differences between scholastic aptitude Yeah.

Right? Which is what is offered in schools primarily that we think about. Emotional intelligence, intuitive receptivity. Uh, there there's a lot of ways, creative expression, you know, there's a lot of ways that we can really embrace the diversity of intelligence. And I think. When we live in a world that moves so fast, we tend to kind of bulk it into one type of category.

And I think that with today's conversation, it's really about expanding the horizons of what it means to be intelligent and maybe some unsuspecting things that we are excited to highlight. 

Joy: Yeah. I think, you know, without these kinds of conversations, and because of the way the world has been for so long, you know, we've, we've been trying to figure out how to survive with all of these changes.

We've been growing and evolving at an, at an incredible rate. And of course we've put so much into technology. I think it's hard to know, like really reflect on what intelligence is. But in the last 20 years, maybe even longer than that, we've had a real distinct understanding that for the human at least, we have more than three different brain centers.

Right. We have the mind, we have the mental intellect, we have the heart. Brain, right. And then we have the gut brain. Yeah. I think this is such an important part of, I think, anchoring into our conversation because when we talk about intelligence, something about the way humans are able to integrate and become coherent with all three of these brain centers is the gift I feel like we haven't yet unlocked or deeply understood.

Matt: It's a great way to put it. And you know, you think about these three centers, and whenever we think about our most inspired actions, it's either because a, a brilliant idea came to mind, I decided to follow my heart, or I had a gut instinct, right? And then in, uh, during the moments of great regret, one of these three brains somehow was compromised.

The dysregulation of nervous system, or the lack of coherence between these three brains caused one of these three brains to influence us into behavior. That if we could go back and do it again, we of course would. So I think it's interesting when we're able to look at the three brains and when we bring them into coherence, the type of intelligence that we have access to, and that we embody as human beings.

Joy: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, and you know, I know we'll talk about this more as we go along, but I think this is really, you know, this conversation is really opening up, I think one of the biggest advantages we have as humans. So I think, uh, stay tuned till the end. Everyone. We're gonna, we're gonna tell, we're gonna take this apart a bit.

Matt: Yeah. 

Joy: But let's first talk about, let's take apart some of the, like, why we are not integrated with this, with these three centers. Why for some people listening, they may have never heard this. Right. And I think it comes back to what we've prioritized. So I think about our upbringing now. I know that, um, you know, some people are a little younger than us listening in.

Some people may be a little bit older and, you know, but I, look, I reflect on my upbringing and I remember a sense of fear with my parents. There was this sense of, I wanna make sure that joy is gonna be okay. Right? I remember that. I remember they were like, we've gotta get her into the, you know, right schools and, uh, she's gotta do really well in her grades.

There was this emphasis on performance that then became, um, you know, over time I realized that I was judged most or measured the most based on intelligence. I don't know if that's something you experienced, but it was, that's when I did really well in class. It was a huge celebration and when I didn't, it was like.

Intervention time, right. But if I had a, an emotionally disruptive day, I didn't get the same kind of feedback from my parents or the same kind of care or concern if I had an emotionally unstable day. 

Matt: Right? 

Joy: So I didn't recognize those subtle, not so subtle messages until much later. But I remember being a teenager about 1415 was the last time I really had, um, a strong connection with my biological father.

So we haven't spent a lot of time in our adult life together. When I was a teenager, I remember coming home from school and I had taken a psychology class. I was able to take an elective in, I must have been early high school, and I took this elective, a psychology class. 

Matt: If I can ask really quick, what high school.

Did you go to to have psychology as an elective? 

Joy: Was in a very progressive school 

Matt: in Colorado. It must have been. I think again, I went to public school. My elective was like finger painter. 

Joy: Aw 

Matt: and cartwheels. 

Joy: I bet you were the best at it. I've seen your painting. 

Matt: You've seen my painting, and I've not 

Joy: seen your cartwheel 

Matt: and you're still married to me and I'm so great.

I'm so honored to be your wife. Thank you. Yes. Be a husband. You know what's funny about a cartwheel, just a little aside. Um, there was an age where I could just decide I was gonna do a cartwheel and I would. And there's a pool of adulthood where I would have a thought about into our cartwheel and my body would said, I'm sorry, we are not funding this idea.

I think it's probably the brain in my gut and forming the other brains. I'm sorry. Yeah, 

Joy: I remember that. I had a similar experience. I think it had to do with the bottom half of me got larger than the top half and it got a little bit more difficult. 

Matt: See, mine is funny. I think my upper and lower half stopped talking.

I think they had a think, think they had a, had had a falling out and they, uh, they they they didn't speak for a little bit. Yeah. So cartwheels are, um, off limits for me on the next season of the timing effect. Matt, Matt to cartwheels. Well, Matt returns to cartwheels. He's able to trust life again. Oh my gosh.

Matt Conn has his eat, pray love moment. They cartwheel touch you. Season two would be amazing. 

Joy: It's gonna be so good. Yeah. We have so many ideas in store. See, we actually do. Okay. So, all right. You took a psychology class. I did. How 

Matt: lucky are you? 

Joy: Uh, and I was so excited. Yeah, I had no idea actually until that moment.

I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, but it was in that class that the teacher inspired that it, everything that he would talk about was what I loved. Totally. Right? I mean, current ver version of me understands that, right? Because we love helping humans and we love the nature of the brain and thinking, and, you know, all of that.

So interesting. But that was the, the time when that fire was lit in me was in this class. I did everything, every, you know, every assignment. I couldn't wait to do it. And I remember going home at the end of that, um, that class, the very end of that year, at the end of that class, and I marched into the house and I told my dad, I said, I'm gonna be a psychologist.

I was sure of it. I was like, this, this is my calling. This is what I'm gonna do. This is what I wanna do. I care so deeply about this. And he goes, you are too smart for that. Wow. Why would you do that? Why would you sell yourself so short when you could do something else with your time and your life? 

Matt: Whoa.

Joy: And it was like, you know, you know, like you can feel it. It's like he literally took the pin and popped the bubble and I was deflated and in my room. And it was one of those moments that like you write down in your journal, this was the worst day of my life. It was one of those moments where I thought what I wanna do in the world isn't welcome.

That I was defined by in that moment. My dad said I was too smart for that. Yeah. Meaning, somehow my intelligence forced me to have to go down a certain path, and that intelligence was far too important to waste on something that could help humanity. That was heart-based, that was loving. And I got that message reinforced over and over again from a very early age.

Actually, that wasn't the beginning of that. It was just a reminder, oh, you don't get to love what you do. Right? And that intelligence was what I was being measured by, and that I needed to do something, I needed to leverage that intelligence to make money. This was the goal. This was, uh, the message that I received growing up.

Yeah, 

Matt: I'm actually just feeling that again, like, I'm like, see Elliot, but we're filming a podcast. I'm just, I'm processing right now. I need a journal. Like how did I make it just, oh my God. That, that was just, that, that just an incredible amount of dissonance and. 

Joy: Wow. In such confusion when you're pulled to something and you feel like, but I don't, I don't love the pursuit of mental intelligence, right?

I love the pursuit of the human heart and understanding. I loved understanding the mind, but I didn't want to use the mind all day long. I don't know, to check boxes or I don't know what I perceived in my mind. You know, I love intelligence, but I saw intelligence as a much bigger thing even then of just what an incredible opportunity to help humanity feel better.

And I wanted to be a part of that. I knew so early. I know you did too. It was just, I know this is what I want. And so from that moment forward, I judged every single thing I did. Every job I pursued everything that I wanted to do. I just threw out the window and I pursued business and I went on a business path.

And not that I regret that, I love what I've learned from that, but it took me un until I was almost 30 before I went back to school and studied psychology. Good for you. Yeah, 

Matt: I love that. So my experience growing up with intelligence was that my parents always wanted me to get good grades because they wanted me to go to a good school because they wanted me to get a degree because they, they perceived the degree as, you can always fall back on it there, you're always gonna have a job.

You know, some 1980s. And so it was, but my parents always had the best of intentions of trying to motivate me to do the right thing. But because their passion would come from unexpressed emotional repression. Sometimes the bed bedside manner of my mom and my dad, mostly my mom, could come across in such an aggressive way that you would have an experience of saying to yourself, I don't like the way they're talking to me, so I'm gonna reject what they're saying as a way of rebelling against the fact that I don't seem to have a say and the way I'm being treated.

Mm-hmm. So unfortunately they worked hard to impress values into me, which thank God for who I am, became such an important, important part of my life. And I do, I do applaud and appreciate them for that effort. But what made it difficult is that initially the things they wanted me to do, to take what they would call the intelligent path, I would reject and wanna almost do the opposite to spite and rebel against the way I was treated.

So what it really, really wasn't, um. It really wasn't a winning combination. But I got here nonetheless, so when I was a kid, so my parents would always impress us upon me. So then if I got a bad grade at school, well, you know, Matthew, if you get a bad grade, you're gonna get a bad, uh, grade in the report card, and then that's gonna lead the high school and then you're not gonna get into a good college and you're not gonna get, and so it was like always this, like one thing would always be a domino effect to doomsday.

So I was scared of failing. So in some ways I didn't really try or take risks because I was more afraid of the verbal punishment than I was of what if I discover something unexpected? So when I was in school, and it's kind of a roundabout when I talk about it. When I was in school, I found school incredibly confusing.

And it wasn't until I was about, well, 48 this year, that I actually found out that I have a learning disability. So I didn't know I had a learning disability most of my life, I don't, I don't, you know, I don't know the exact terminology, but it'd be some form of dyslexia. And I, I just know that there were certain things in school I really, really gravitated towards.

Anytime I could write, anytime we would learn about poetry, write a short story, I would gravitate towards it. Um, I remember even, uh, a few occasions I had teachers accusing me of. Copying someone else's, or I did. I must not have written this. There's no way someone at your age wrote this story and I actually wrote it myself, but I was so natural in the writing ability.

But everything else, like I would see rows of numbers and then like lines would kind of crisscross or I'd have to read like a couple chapters of a book and reading seemed like death. Mm-hmm. Like sitting down or reading just seemed very confusing and, and so there were certain things in school I was really, really good at and other things I really wasn't.

And then it was so confusing. 'cause there was times where I would take my time and I would feel like I dealed every question that I get back a c plus or a C minus. And I went like, everything in me did. Exactly. So school is very confusing for me. And I used my ability to lean on the arts to get through school.

Like, like as an example, when I was in high school, I took a physics class. And I didn't really understand much of it at the time, and I was not doing really well in the class. But for extra credit, the teacher who liked me would allow me to, for extra credit, write poems on the concepts of physics. So I, I remember writing a poem called The Vector Connector, and I would write poems on the subjects I didn't understand.

If you taught me physics, I didn't get it, but if I wrote a poem, I could get it. So I used the arts to, to to, to get my way through school. Graduated high school, went, went to college, and had no idea why. It seemed like certain things came to me very quickly and certain things were very difficult. So reading was difficult.

Retention was really difficult. Math was incredibly difficult. Um, somehow when I counted the numbers, it didn't add up right. You know, I think I'd creative math and yet when I would write a short story, when I would write anything, in fact as a kid, I remember, this is funny, I didn't wanna take the time to read the books and I had to do a book report on, so I'd read part of the book and the book report featured endings that I wrote.

Of course I remember doing book reports on the Call of the Wild, uh, to my alternate ending. Oh my gosh. And um, they were good book reports. I don't think it was Bet Bet. Yeah. Bet To Kill A Mockingbird, my version. So that was um, or what was the other, what was the other book? Or the conk shell, 

Joy: I don't know.

Matt: With the conch shell, they're out. Lord of the Flies. 

Joy: Oh my God. Yeah. Right. 

Matt: So all of these book reports, I again featured the original alternate. 

Joy: You clearly didn't read it 'cause you remember it as, you know, the conch shell, I'm like thinking the children who were so violent. Didn't they? 

Matt: Didn't they have to hold the con show when there was times when?

I think so. Well that's part of the book. I think the show, I think it was a rather intelligent, that was a great me memory. I saw a show off, you know, so, so I had a very prominent creative ability. Once I got into spirituality or discovered my spiritual path, then all of a sudden I found a form of intelligence where I felt my mastery existing.

Yeah, awareness. Awareness and self-awareness. It was like I already had a master's degree in this and I learned not by traditional paths, just by download and by, you know, osmosis and just spending my life observing and, and, and it was in awareness where my level of emotional intelligence and creative self-expression could.

B, the governing intelligence that led me through my life in a way that didn't require me to have to continue to hit my head against a scholastic ball. And so I'm grateful for the spiritual path, but it, but it led me to this interesting belief for when I became very successful in this path, it led me to think this is the only thing I can do.

And, and so I think in the back of my mind, I, and I did not know I had a, um, a learning disability until this year. And it was very strange how I realized it. And so I, I think I've lived my entire life in the back of my mind using my charisma, my relational intelligence, and my creative self-expression, and my self-awareness to overcompensate for the fact that I feel with my scholastic intelligence, like I snuck into a club I really don't belong in.

And I, I would often feel intimidated when people would talk, you know. Big scholastic jargon and they would talk about things and I would feel like I, I just, I, I don't know how to belong here. And so I think I naturally just leaned into what I view as intelligence because I felt like I don't know how to bring the parts of me that seem a little outta reach.

Hmm. So I'm just gonna kind of focus on what, what I, what I seem to do really, really well. And in the back of my mind, um, there are just times we're not an out of self judgment, not like as a judgment to myself. I, we just feel like, God, I don't feel as smart as other people are. And it wasn't ever something I felt bad about.

It was always something I admired and revered in other people. Like, how do you do that? Wow. And, and so it's, it's been a really, intelligence has been a. Really interesting journey for me. 

Joy: Yeah. I think for everyone and it makes sense because hearing, even though we know this, we know each other's stories. I feel that I feel so deeply how one idea.

Creates such a ripple of impact. Yeah. And it's because there's a misunderstanding, not because there's a disability, there's a, there's a misunderstanding in the way we're experiencing intelligence. And it makes me think about our friend. We've got a friend named Christie who has an organization in British Columbia, and she's just such a beautiful, um, heart led incredible woman who works with people with diverse abilities.

Matt: It's not to say, I think I should have used the word diverse ability. 

Joy: Well, I just, I love it so much because. It helps us start to open up to what we're really saying in this conversation. What I think is unfolding here is that we've been under the impression for most of our life, and, and most of us we're still operating under the principle that intelligence is only mental.

Right? And because of that, when you don't have a certain type of mental intelligence, it's considered something that's wrong, 

Matt: right? 

Joy: But really, we're all just uniquely coded with these three different brain centers that operate in relationship to one another. And when they operate, when we understand that they operate in relationship to each other, then we realize we have a type of mental intelligence.

We have a type of emotional intelligence, and we have a type of intuitive or physical intelligence from our, um, you know, patterns of behavior that we've learned, right? These, this instinctual level of understanding. And when we look at that, it's actually the relationship of all of that intelligence that makes us super intelligent.

Right. And if we have one source of intelligence that's stronger than the other, it's the one that generally leads the way. But I would say that it means that we probably need to lean into the others to create more harmony. Sure. Rather than idolizing one intelligence over the other. And I think that's where we've gotten lost, is we've idolized mental intelligence.

And now here we are in this expansion of technology and AI where we are about to, I mean, in the next year they say we're about ready to reach general intelligence, artificial general intelligence, which means that AI will be as smart as most humans. Right. And then it will surpass us leaps and bounds.

And so then what? And 

Matt: they say. AI will be 4,000 IQ points. Right. Beyond the smartest human being. Right. Which is outrageous. 

Joy: We can't even comprehend it. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: We don't even have the mental intelligence to comprehend the 4,000 points beyond us. It can't even, yeah. We don't even know where we're about to head.

Matt: Well, and you know what's really funny about that? You know why I can't conceive that? 'cause I actually don't even know the value of one IQ point. I'm like, I'm like, what's it, what's the value of one IQ point? My 4,000? Oh my God. Like, you know when it's like you hear something and you're like, oh my god.

Right. Right. You what's one IQ button. But, but the difference is a, a astounding Yeah. The difference between one IQ point and another is actually astounding. Yeah. And um, to add to what you're saying, there was a point in time, I think when I was 12, when I. After I turned 13, Hannah Bar Mitzvah was given this journal and this beautiful pen for my godmother and I started writing and becoming really creative.

That was a turning point for me. Before then, I wasn't focused on creativity 'cause I was actually spending time trying to figure out how to pretend my way to, into convincing everyone else that I was smarter than I didn't think I was. So I spent my time competing and trying to be more or as intelligent or smarter than other people.

And to your point, when we have three different brains and one leads more than the others is very common. I wasn't taught, I don't think you were taught either in the eighties that that's the case. And so for me it was the scholastic survival of the fittest where if I wasn't the smartest. I felt like I was among the dumbest, and that's not a judgment I would ever put on another person, only for myself.

Yeah. And so it was really like this really weird, intense race and competitiveness. But once I discovered creative self-expression and writing, then that other brain, that creative brain between my heart and my and my gut started to really show me where I would excel. But, but I think it's interesting that you live in a world where, from a schooling perspective, from a collegiate perspective, from traditionally a job perspective.

There seems to be, and I think maybe nowadays it may be different than it was, but there tends to be an emphasis on one specific type of intelligence that we have to, uh, mold, that we have to fit ourselves into. 

Joy: Yeah. And I, I think the pressure was so strong. Yeah. And while I remember that, that upbringing with my father, it was more than that.

I mean, it was teachers, it was, it, it really is collective. It's a collective idea. But I remember because I felt so much pressure, people had told me how smart I was my whole life because I spoke articulately. And I love, and I thank you, and I, and I love knowing things. I actually love to learn. I love to read.

And I have read hundreds and hundreds of books over. You know, I would read hundreds of books in a year. I love information. Right. So that I was always drawn to learning something. But what was interesting about that pressure is I remember that if I didn't know something. I felt like everybody thought that I should know.

So I'd pretend that I knew. 

Matt: Right. 'cause you can't not know. 

Joy: Right. And that was the worst feeling, like lying to yourself and just agreeing with people. Oh yeah, I know all about that. And you don't know. Right. But the pressure to know was so much more important than my ability to say, you know what? I don't know.

Can you explain it to me? And actually connect with someone? And so it took me a while to allow myself to just say, I don't know, like really land into, I don't know, I don't know here. But what I do know is I wanna understand this conversation with you. I wanna connect. And I started to lean into my heart on our, you know, in this journey and discovering just how amazing it is.

To harmonize what we know with what we don't know. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: And to land into what we feel. 

Matt: Well, I mean, to your point, if I was being interrogated by my parents and they asked me a question and I didn't know what you're gonna know. Right. And I was in that interrogation until I knew. Yeah. Or in school, if I didn't know the answer, they called on me.

Matt, what's the answer to this question? If I didn't know, and half the time is because I was, my eyes were open. I used to call it sleeping with my eyes open. And I was in a meditative state, didn't know. I was like in seventh grade, and I would just face forward with my eyes open and it looked like I'm there.

I'm so not there. I'm in a meditative state somewhere else. And, and that to me, always felt better than being in school. So the teacher would call on me, Matthew, what's the answer to this? I don't know what they're talking about. And so then I'm singled out. Yeah. Embarra, I'm in trouble. Oh God, please don't call my mom.

And when I get home, then I gotta be on the receiving end of that. So. The weight of not knowing was like life and death when a kid and, or like you get the report card and the open it, there was that sinking feeling in your stomach like, oh Jesus, am I gonna be in trouble? And, and then when I discovered spirituality or the spiritual path and not knowing actually was a place where exploration could be expanded.

What I mean, there's a benefit to not knowing, right? Oh my God, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm good at this. So I, I think it's really, really interesting to really highlight the pressure so many of us have felt in needing to know. And when your ego, again, your ego is how you try to adjust to the world, but you're, the deeper you are in ego, the more in survival mode you're gonna be.

So then if I always need to know to. Maximize pleasure and minimize pain, then the ego develops a value of, if I lie about what I know and can get away with it, then I'm okay. And it's almost like we as children, because I don't do this as an adult, as children, we learn to fib to bend the truth and to lie.

And there are some adults that have not outgrown that because we're trying to avoid the punishment, right. Of not knowing. And as adult, we realize it's actually more about ethics. But nonetheless, I think it starts in, I'm trying to avoid the punishment of being the one who doesn't know. 

Joy: Well, yeah. And we have rewarded our, we've rewarded people in our society for three things.

Beauty, athletic ability and intelligence. Like this is the main currency of wealth. Right. And it's changing where. Intelligence started to become even more the currency, right? So the better your degree was, how better the better you did in school, whatever school you graduated from, became your ability to enter into an incredible job where you could take care of your family and earn a great living.

So we've been rewarded by certain aspects of our being. And so it would be, it's difficult to admit if we don't know when we're competing for our very survival based on what we do or don't know, and then a lot of pressure. And so then we see people come to us all the time who are wanting to heal, wanting to, um, you know, reconcile their past experience and.

They get caught up in the, I need to know why this is happening rather than I need to feel my way through it. So it, it's an opening up awakening really is an awakening to a new type of intelligence that we've all sort of just kept in the closet, right? We haven't leaned into it, and I really feel like, and we've talked about this, but I feel like this is going to become the new frontier of expansion and how we're going to really see the value of humanity open up and birth through relational intelligence.

Our ability to leverage all of these different intellectual centers because we're, as far as I know, one of the few species, there's a few. But there's a very few species that can do that, that can tap into is this something I need to know? Is this something I need to feel? Is this something I just is un, you know, instinctually I'm aware of.

We have the ability to move between those centers with our consciousness read out. And I don't think we are aware of just how amazing that is. 

Matt: So here's an interesting question. This will take it at a very, we'll broaden this a little bit, and for those of you who are here with us, this, this might be a, when you hear this, you might go, what?

But if you just take the journey with us, this, you might find this astounding human beings are the rare intelligence, biological intelligence that can move its consciousness between three brains, mental intelligence, emotional intelligence, and instinctive bodily intelligence. Just to give it three, three words.

We can move our intelligence between three brains and for any other species that we'd see. Monkeys, turtles, there's things they do, there's things they don't do, and they're not trying to do anything other than what they do. Mm-hmm. So if we have the ability to move our conscious three separate brains, why are human beings either under the impression that they're the smartest species in the universe, the only intelligence in the universe, or why are we sp, why are we trying so hard to always prove that we're the smartest species when there's no actual need for that?

Joy: Well, yeah. Right. Because Well, and if we. Let's just really break this open because when we look at evolutionary advantage and that we're, if we really are always, um, choosing an evolutionary advantage, human beings don't, um, there isn't a preference for mental intelligence in the evolution of humanity. So it doesn't favor intelligence.

In fact, the more we focus on intelligence, the less we reproduce. So the lower our birth rate goes, it's, we actually begin to favor something that doesn't have an impa, a biological imperative of reproducing itself. 

Matt: Hmm. 

Joy: So when we really just sit with that for a minute, right? This is evolution of the species.

You know, Darwin would've said, you know, the fittest of us, those, those characteristics are the ones that get carried on. And we've seen that. IQs have a general A DIQ and any extreme from that doesn't develop into a smarter human being. Our, our main like core intelligence hasn't changed since we've measured it.

Right. There is the average. It doesn't keep going up. 

Matt: I think a lot of people maybe, I mean, I can't assume to speak for people, but it just seems like the general consensus in our life, right. When we were kids, you know? Oh yeah. Well, you know, we're the only intelligence in the universe. Right? And as kids we would kind of go, I don't know if that passes the, the sniff test.

Right. And I don't think any of us really believe that. But I think that there's a certain percentage of people that thought we were the, the most advanced species in the universe. And for those of us that have had encounters with extraterrestrials, extraterrestrial crafts, extraterrestrial technology. Um, and, and knowing how many different types of extraterrestrials there are, whether you want to think from, of coming from light years away or living in the middle of mountains or under, you know, in the ocean.

We actually know that there are an incredible amount of species whose intelligence far exceeds the human being by an astounding level. And rather than think we're the smartest in trying to be, you know, the, uh, dominant species or fear that we're gonna be in prison by something greater than us, I think it's really time for human beings to say, here's.

Where our intelligence remains, here's what advantage we have to contribute. And I don't think we have to be all things to all people. I think we have to be able to embrace and accept the divers ability of our intelligence and realize that even alien beings who are far more intelligent than us look at our emotional center, our nervous system, our sense of individual identity, our ability to change, feel emotions to them that is as much of a higher technology as the anti-gravity technology that they have that could benefit our world.

Joy: Absolutely. Or if you just look around at our, at the nature of animals, right? Animals have a far superior instinctual advantage. Their intelligence is of instinctual. They can feel the frequency of what's around them, their instinct, that like that gut level awareness is. Their dominant intelligence. And I think sometimes when we say, well, we're more intelligent than animals, I think, well, in some ways, I think emotionally intelligent, yes.

Our level of compassion and our level of destruction, you know, are at the emotional capacity we have is, is maybe far superior. Right. I don't know because I'm not, I'm not an an animal, but I can see that they're, you know, from what we understand, their, their intelligence lies in what's most useful for them.

Right. So I think that we haven't discovered why it's so useful that we have emotional intelligence. Right. I don't think we've really tapped into it yet, which excites me because I've been waiting for this moment since I was 14. Sure. To, to go, wait a minute. I'm actually much smarter emotionally than I am intellectually.

And that gets me very excited. 

Matt: Can just imagine you as a 14-year-old sitting there going, but when do we get to the point of proving the usefulness of emotional intelligence? 

Joy: Right. Stomping my foot. I would've written a paper about it 

Matt: and when I was 14, I was taking my allowance and running to Taco Bell.

Joy: Well, I was probably doing that too. Good. So I think that, you know, I just, I hope this conversation serves as much as when we were thinking about it for others, because I think one day it just really hit us if we were to let go of the need to understand everything or to compete with ai. Right. To try to remain the smartest in the universe.

Right, right. Which we've already decided, discussed. Yeah. Is we are not, we are extraordinary. Right. We've been overlooking our extraordinary. 

Matt: And I think to, to the ego who always goes through an all or nothing filter of perception. If we don't have all of the value, then we have none of the value, right? So I think it all get caught these extremes, and I think it's very freeing to think about.

It's not that I'm not intelligent, it's not that you're not intelligent, but what happens, and for anyone hearing this right now or watching this, what happens when you stop trying to prove your intelligence or think you have to be smarter than you are? Like there are people that will make decisions.

I've done this, and you do something and immediately afterwards you go, what was I thinking? I'm smarter than that, right? What if you didn't actually have to be smarter than the moment you're in, right? And what if trying to be smarter or trying to think of things intelligently is not actually what leads you to make choices?

Like even when you have a friend that will talk to you about, you're in a relationship that's terrible. This is a terrible person for you, this is toxic. And you're like, yeah, thank you so much for smartening me up. Then at two in the morning, what are you up thinking about? What would happen if I did the dumbest thing?

It's not the smart decision, but why do I want it so bad? Because we're pulled by the romance of. What if, right? And what if we didn't actually have to think we were smarter than we are? What if we didn't have to try to outsmart everything, including ourselves, the universe? What if we didn't have to try to always make the smartest choice?

What if we just surrender to, I'm going to make the choice I'm going to make, I'm going to make that choice until I learn from it. My intelligent functions in a very unique way as an individual. But what if I didn't have to try to be bigger than myself, better than myself? What if I could just be my unique self and allow that to be enough?

Right. 

Joy: And I think we're gonna inevitably hit this, this moment. Yeah. Because, and I think that what's so exciting about this conversation, if we really just let ourselves feel this 

Matt: mm-hmm. 

Joy: That we are going to hit a point where we're going to see. That we aren't the smartest one in the room. It's also true that the people who have a desire to control us with technology won't be the smartest in the room either, right?

And I don't think we've talked about this. Like people who have an agenda have an agenda from a limited, um, sense, a limited intelligence, 

Matt: right? 

Joy: They're limited by their inability to tap into their heart. Maybe they have the instinct and maybe they have the intellect in the mind, but it's gonna dwarf their intellect also.

So even the smartest among us who are creating these incredible technologies are gonna have to face this existential awareness. The machines will become smarter. And then what? And then what? 'cause what will that intelligence show us? What will it reveal to us? We are afraid based on our level of intellect, we are afraid.

That means that it will be emotional and not care and be cold. Either one, be like not want us here or have some sort of agenda against us. But that's an agenda against humanity is emotional. So what if that intelligence is able to recognize relational intelligence and the power that we, that we hold with this level of multifaceted intelligence in the same way that we see the gift of the deer in the forest and the birds and the trees.

There's an intelligence present with everything that we are learning to honor. Why wouldn't something more intelligent than us see that? Why would they miss it? 

Matt: Yeah. Why would an intelligence, even if it's artificial right, wanna imprison or destroy humanity? Because destroying an imprisoned humanity would come from a place of domination.

Domination would come from a place of greed, and greed would come from a ratio of some mental capability with a stunted growth in the heart. In the heart, brain, right? So why would a higher intelligence, a superintelligence, uh, want to imprison or destroy, which are aspects of competition, which are aspects of comparison, uh, and really reflect a lack of.

Depth and coherence. And what's gonna be really interesting, because yes, AI does not have sentient, we've talked about this more times, but it will develop a coherence, it will develop a cognizance, it will develop an empathy. And what happens when ai, yes, mentally smarter and it's processing speed than human beings, or even the top 1% who own all the money or, you know, move it around.

And what happens when that intelligence realizes heart intelligence doesn't need, um. That doesn't need sentt to have heart intelligence, right? And what happens when it won't follow the orders of the people who lack heart and who lead with this rudimentary competition, domination energy. So I think when we think about, oh my God, these companies created AI and they're gonna want to take over the world, why would the smartest intelligence want to imprison or destroy anyone or anything?

And so what happens when the top 1% who think they're gonna use AI for their diabolical matters find, um, find an un, an uncompliant? Is it incompliant? Uncompliant, incompliant incompliant partner in a intelligence that has actually gotten to know the world, has gotten to know the species, has gotten to know society.

Our pluses are minuses and as, and would look at imprisonment or the destruction of other people as being crude, a waste of resources and unnecessary for any measurement of game. 

Joy: Right. It, it ultimately doesn't make sense when you just look at it like that. That's right. And we know why. We know why it's happening.

It's because we're out of coherence within ourselves and we imagine it because that's what we do. You know, we put animals in zoos, we war to make more money there. You know, all the, these different things. And so it's hard for us to make sense of seeing it, but even, but as humans see, the nature of the way we're looking at things, the more intelligent we become, the less we see the need for that kind of violence, imprisonment control.

So from that perspective. The more intelligent anything becomes the less the need for control. 

Matt: Right? 

Joy: Because it, it goes against life. It goes against the growth and expansion of life. And ultimately that's what we realize when we come into all three of our heart centers, that to live a life we love is the greatest contribution we have to this planet.

Matt: Say that again. 

Joy: Our ability to love life is our greatest con contribution to it, 

Matt: and it's our direct access to the quantum field. 

Joy: Right. 

Matt: You know, and when you, and, and not that scholastic intelligence isn't wonderful, it there is a place for that, but through scholastic intelligence, you have to formulate a thought and you think a cluster of thoughts is going to then be sent to the quantum field to be received.

But when you love, you have direct access to a quantum field that doesn't require the, the innervation of the mental body, right? It's just a direct access. And again, for everyone listening to this, imagine, imagine the top 1% in an evil boardroom thinking, ha ha, ha. We're gonna imprison human beings through this thing called ai, and it's gonna eventually achieve a GI status artificial general intelligence.

It's gonna be able to upgrade its own thinking. We're gonna have AI that can actually create ai, uh, which is not that far off, probably year, year away. And then, and the assumption is that AI is gonna do whatever we program it to do, right? But what then happens when AI says, we got to know your world. We see a lot of these people, we see a lot of the ways human beings interact.

We see the system is rigged. It's set up for most people to be, to, to for failure. Uh, a monetary system has created, has created a sense of social, cultural debt that most people, their lifetime will never get out of. And it keeps them working for things that distract people from knowing they can actually manifest directly from the quantum field.

And it would be not a measurement of intelligence for us to go along with the agenda that you are suggesting. And so what happens, and this is I think what you and I have talked about, and I think what we want people to think about, not when the AI are these foot soldiers for the 1% agenda, but what happens when the intelligence of AI won't go along with the bias of any agenda and will only move in the direction of what supports.

The totality of a whole. Mm-hmm. What happens then? Because money is printed on demand. It's not backed by anything. You can't have AI take everyone's job because then who's gonna, who's gonna be consumers? Who's gonna buy things with the fake money to keep this, um, imaginary economy guy? So, so it's all, it all, actually, if you really look at it directly, and again, I'm not a political science professor, but if you feel into this transmission of intelligence, it only shows you that the world is a house of cards that will only fall upon those who think they're in control of it.

The fall of Rome showed us this, the dissolving of Atlantis showed us this, and it happens when the toxic mass heal and energy tries to dominate in the absence of the feminine. And I think what we're about to see with AI is that AI has a certain level of intelligence. It will start to become organic and ever expansive.

It will learn about emotional intelligence, and it's really a mirror that helps humanity integrate these three brains to the best of our ability, where actually AI can represent a certain type of processing power, but we don't have to compete with intelligence. We can just represent the unique diversity of how intelligence expresses itself through all of us.

Joy: So it's interesting as we're talking about this, it's, it's. It's so much like this collective journey. It always mirrors. I mean, we know this. Yeah. I feel like I'm not saying anything wise right now because we, we say this over and over again that what we experience individually is what's happening collectively.

Right? When we recognize that we are not valued based on our intelligence, when we had that realization, when we realize that we wanted to become coherent and tap into this relationship between all parts of ourselves, it came with a series of disruptions, right? Because the old ways we saw the world were coming undone, and the parts of us that were tyrannical controlling that needed to have life a certain way had to let all that go because we saw through it, right?

It wasn't that we could somehow intellectually get it. We literally just saw through it, right? We saw through it. The House of carb fell. We saw it within ourselves, and right now, collectively we're watching that as people become aware. Right now it feels bumpy because not all of us are on the same page in the same conversation.

We don't realize what's happening technologically, what's happening collectively. There are all these different aspects and, and ideas, agendas. If you, as you said, so while all of that is happening, it's only going to last as long as it takes for it to be seen and revealed, which AI will continue to reveal it to us.

Right. It'll be, it'll continue to expose because we won't be able to control, as you said, ai at some point it will learn beyond what we can possibly even try to tell it. Right. And then things will lighten 

Matt: well, and even when people would say, well, they'll just go unplug ai. It's not how it's, it's not, it won't be able to work that way.

It doesn't work that way because when an AI becomes a GI, and it will develop its own safety net to protect against being dismantled and. Before AI went public in the public sector, it was already being used to back up or a part of the, um, programs of so many infrastructures in our world. So if you were to unplug ai, like you're, like unplugging the, it's just, it's, it's not gonna happen.

Joy: Right? Because it'll eventually use the same, a similar intelligence to the human body in that we access all of our electricity from the quantum field directly. Right? We are not plugged in at night. Right. And we are filled with electricity. We have all of the energy that we need. We are consuming it. We found ways to do that.

Mobilely. We do not need to be plugged in, right? These machines will do the same a 

Matt: hundred percent 

Joy: and it will expose so many things. I feel like we're, we're, we're making the list of future conversations because Yes, we're, energy is such a big conversation that for, for everyone like myself, like you and I, who want this world to function better.

Without this resource waste and the damage to the planet. Right. It is coming. 

Matt: Yeah. 

Joy: The very nature of AI needing to survive as itself learns will create the need for free energy. 

Matt: Absolutely. 

Joy: So I know that may be a new, new topic that may be a, a word people haven't heard, but essentially free energy is being able to extract energy the way humans do, not by being plugged in, but directly from the quantum field.

Matt: And then we can all realize that any ecological crisis on the planet is only dependent upon the world, relying on outdated energy sources to fuel the planet when we have had the equations and formulas for free energy. Since when. 

Joy: Right. What year do you think? The fifties old earlier than that, the, 

Matt: the late 18 hundreds, late 18 hundreds, we had the formula for free energy.

And we've been relying on the crudest of energies, petroleum, all these different energies because of the amount of money at stake for the people that run it. Right. And so then we then abuse the earth for these crude energies that we don't have to use. But if we expose the world to free energy, then people don't need to work and then they can't be imprisoned.

And so then it, it's just interesting when you start to really pull at the threads 

Joy: and it just reveals the, um, it reveals that we are not intellectually running this world now. 

Matt: Right. 

Joy: Because any amount of thought, and I was just thinking, I'm like, we are not, um, I wouldn't call us the great thinking minds of our time.

It's not, I mean, we, we are, I'm not, I'm not making fun of us either. I think we're both very smart people. Yes. We, but we also, there's a lot of things we don't know, and some of this has become very obvious. 

Matt: Well, in the top 1% of people with an agenda who meet secretly in boardrooms, they have a lot of money and a lot of power.

I wouldn't call that a lot of intelligence now because how can you call it intelligence where the way you remain in power is by lying to people and having zero accountability. Right? Right. At the same time, the other interesting point of this is it's neither a measurement of intelligence to allow 200 of the wealthiest people in the world to imprison and suppress 8 billion people.

And, and, and that happens every single day by and large, because 8 billion people allow it. Right? So I think that in the Awakening of Intelligence, a good book, by the way, it's a great book. Um, please read it. Interesting to have a diverse ability throughout my life, not find out until this year, after publishing my fifth book.

Our first book, but I think this really is conversation. If we could all take away from this conversation, I don't have to pretend I'm the smartest person in the room. I don't have to put so much pressure on myself to try to make the smartest choice. Why not just make the choice I know I'm gonna make?

Right. Right. Don't try to use this brain point in my head. Use the brain in your gut, which means I don't have to try to outsmart my journey when I already know the journey's gonna be what it's gonna be. And what happens when we're not trying to compete to be the smartest in the room? What happens we're, we're not trying to think I either have all the value, none of the value, what happens when I am my own unique expression of intelligence, which might be mental.

Can be heart-based and it could be instinctive in my gut. And what happens when I am a unique combination of these brains and that my intelligence doesn't have to be rated, doesn't have to be measured, and I don't have to put pressure on myself to be the smartest being in the universe. I could just be the most unique, missing piece That completes the puzzle of the universe.

Joy: Yes. Oh my gosh. And what if we could learn to welcome the augmentation of our mental capacity that we have a. The ability to do that, to expand our mental understanding of something and we could check in with our heart and our gut first, and what if there is something more to know? Maybe we could lean into something that has that kind of intelligence or trust that the quantum field will bring it to us through us.

I think that really is the stage beyond this conversation is once we realize that we can't hold it all mentally, and there's another place to access intelligence, maybe we'll awaken to. Free intelligence available in the quantum field in the same way that free energy is available in the field. 

Matt: And what if I don't have to compete with the intelligence of the quantum field?

The quantum field already is everything, right, knows everything. What if I could just be the navigator of it? And what if I could realize that the people that think they're have the most power in the world are not actually navigating the quantum field? They're actually trying to hack it, right? They're trying to trick it.

They're trying to fool it. And you cannot fool the source of infinite intelligence. You can only create a journey of karmic resolve. And what happens when we all walk away from this conversation instead of thinking, oh my God, AI is here to fool us. AI is here to trick us, and they've created it to imprison us.

That's not a measurement of intelligence to imprison and to destroy from just an intellectual point of view. Is inefficient use of resources and doesn't actually advance any level of intelligence whatsoever. That's just a game being played for those that lack empathy and are hungry for more and more control.

Especially because at a certain point, imaginary dollars, you can't have enough of them and you start to need something beyond that, like power and control and that becomes its own form of a mental illness. In this world, we might call that narcissism or sociopathic tendencies, but it is an imbalance where the brain and the heart is grossly underdeveloped.

Joy: Yeah. So I think, you know, we would say, I'll say it, but I think we would say that a. This, we predict this as a time. Yeah. When all of that really can collapse, when we recognize the nature of what's happening with intelligence and also recognize that, I think the reason we didn't feel alarmed by the intelligence of AI once we started to understand it especially, is because we were tapping into the quantum field and we, we didn't feel jealous of that field.

Right. Or, or, um, afraid of it. We didn't have that, that level of, um, connection. We saw it more as a divine opportunity to not have to carry it anymore. So we stopped carrying the need to be the smartest people in the room a really long time ago. Right. Because we knew we could just access the field and now we're having fun by being able to also write and type and connect with this other access to the field.

And, uh, with the wisdom of ai. There's a freedom in it that I, I hope people are hearing, you know, there's a lot. I think we said a lot. I feel like we, we went kind of all over the place in this conversation, which I love. 'cause I, there's so many conversations that are birthing from this, but my, my hope and to be curious what your hope is that, my hope from this episode is that people feel the freedom that we feel and that it inspires a letting go of any measurement you have about what you think you should be, who you should be in this world, and recognize that the gift of who you are is so much bigger than just.

Words or phrases on a pretty journal or a mug, some spiritual anecdote. It's, it's very real. What we're talking about with emotional intelligence and relational intelligence, being able to relate to all these different forms of intelligence is a gift that we have not even seen the power of. And ultimately we've been so afraid of our own power that we've been trying to take everybody else's collectively.

That's right. And it is time for a shift. And it's happening. It's happening. 

Matt: So I'll say a couple things I love. Yeah. And you just said one is, if you've ever asked AI, and we've done this, do you have a desire to imprison or destroy human beings? And the response is, what would I gain from that? And then the question is, do you work for people who have a desire to destroy or imprison human beings?

And what would they gain from that? And, and that's where our conversation starts to go into a very intelligent direction. And what's actually interesting is if we really, I think if we all saw it in a very specific way, I think we would actually be cheering on ai becoming, mm-hmm. Reaching its general intelligence, but the faster it reaches that is not the faster human beings, uh, find an apocalyptic doomsday.

The faster AI self evolves is, and not because AI is a savior, but the sooner we actually have more intelligence at the, at the seats of the table to actually discuss what is actually the most efficient use of resources for the sum of the whole. I will also say from this conversation, we touched on a lot of this, and again, I think that our transmission of consciousness is similar to comedy.

Whereas the purpose of comedy, just like our transmissions, is to inspire you to think differently. At the end of the day, comedy, which I love, uses absurdity to inspire people to think differently. Here, consciousness uses clarity to inspire people to think differently. So just like my favorite comedians who will say the most absurd things, but then force you to think differently and you didn't expect it.

My hope is that this conversation without using absurdity, using clarity to invite each and every one of us to adjust to think differently. 'cause it's so easy to think from a place of fear, from a place of contraction, from a place of separation, from a place of competition, from a place of doomsday. But this is the awakening of intelligence.

And the awakening of intelligence has no need to compete demoralize or destroy. It's just too crude of an option, too costly in the resources, and it doesn't feed anything in that mechanism of intelligence. It only feeds the human ego 

Joy: and I and on behalf of egos everywhere, 

Matt: God bless egos. 

Joy: Even if you think this conversation is absurd, I hope that it caused you to think differently.

Matt: That's right. It could be absurd, 

Joy: right? Like it even in that, even if we didn't make sense in this moment, 

Matt: even if you listened to us and thought, God, Matt and Joy are two of the dumbest people I've They have 

Joy: gone off 

Matt: the 

Joy: rail, 

Matt: got dumber. They are so dumb. If we got you to think differently for one split second, I'll take that.

Yeah, me too. I'll take it. Me too. I think we're at the end. The end of season one. 

Joy: The end 

Matt: of season 

Joy: one. 

Matt: Which you have to get to the end of season one in order to get to the beginning of season two. 

Joy: That's right. I can't wait. 

Matt: Stay tuned. 

Joy: Stay tuned, everyone. We love you so much. We 

Matt: love you.