Meet Megan Schenker-Johnson

Transcript

Erin Ronhovde (00:00)
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Teacher Voice, a Whenever I Have Time For It podcast that centers the experiences of public school teachers in Oakland, California. I'm your host, Erin Ronhovde, more popularly known as Miss Ronhovde. I've been a teacher in Oakland for 10 years now and I'm so excited to share my passion for the beautiful chaos that is public education with you.

Each time we meet in this space, we will talk to a different educator about the life-changing work they do every day. I hope this window into our world reveals all the love, sweat, and tears teachers pour into their work. Maybe it will leave you with a deeper understanding of the challenges we face and the changes we want to see. Maybe you will join our centuries-long fight to fulfill the promise this country made

provide a free and equal education to all this country's children. Whatever your takeaway might be, this is the space for educators to use their teacher voice and be heard. Let's get into it.

Erin Ronhovde (01:10)
Okay, welcome to Teacher Voice. My teacher voice is a little bit scraggly today because it is allergy season and we have to be loud a lot in classrooms.

So apologize for the vocal fry. You know what, I shouldn't apologize for the vocal fry. There will be vocal fry. This is your warning. My name is Erin Ronhovde and I am a fourth and fifth grade teacher in Oakland. I've been teaching in Oakland for 10 years. I'm very excited to be speaking with one of my coworkers today. I will let her introduce herself and then we will get into it. My name is Megan Shanker Johnson.

many teacher names, but the short of it is that I teach fifth grade. And yeah, I've been teaching fifth grade since the pandemic. I've taught TK through seventh grade and I've been at this school for non-consecutively nine years. Nice. So that actually leads your many teacher names lead me into my first question, which is who is Teacher SJ? my God. Yeah, who isn't Teacher SJ?

Yeah, T-Tra Estre is this entity, this very creative persona that I've worked on.

in my professional life since 2015 when I first got hired at our school. And when I first got hired at our school, I was in a totally different place. I was 24 years old, ⁓ just dipping my toes into education. And at that point, I wasn't married. And so I was Miss Schenker. And ⁓ yeah, Teacher SJ is...

an amalgam of all of my past teachers, my mentor teachers. Teacher SJ is who I want to be when I grow up at times and who I think of as this really model person and who strives to be the best teacher that they can be, but while also holding space that Teacher SJ is a human being and is a friend, is a teacher, is an artist, is an activist,

And now a mom is a wife and or a spouse and yeah, I could go on. Yeah, if a student had to answer that question, what do you think they'd say? Who was teacher SJ? Yeah. ⁓ my god. ⁓

I think that they might say teacher SJ is someone who cares a lot about social justice and equity and ⁓ is passionate about learning. Yeah, it just has a thirst for knowledge. SJ. ⁓

cares a lot and also make sure that like the shenanigans are minimal. There's a time and a place for shenanigans. You have to know when it's time to shenan and when it's not. I love that. And I also love that you've also started to incorporate my second question into your first, which shows that you've been doing this for almost a decade because the next question is, who is Megan?

Megan, ⁓ God Megan is.

question, right? I ⁓ Megan has tirelessly worked to get where I am now for so long thinking that I would never arrive. And I really evolved in my like trying to conceive

my personal identity with my professional identity when I went to grad school is when I really was faced with my identity and this like crisis of ⁓ my own identity crisis that I was like dealing with. so like, you know, we'll probably touch on this a little bit later, but you know. ⁓

when you show up in the world and people judge you just for how you look, right? And make assumptions about your identity versus like maybe feelings of like how you look on the outside doesn't match how you are on inside because at that time I was like, ⁓ I never thought about my...

race as being white, knowing that I present as white, but I never felt white because where I grew up, I wasn't considered white. And then when I came to the Bay Area, I was white. As a Jewish person. I always would say like, Megan is a bi-coastal Jewess. Cause like my mom is born and raised and my whole mom's side of the family is from Baltimore, Maryland. Gotcha.

And so I spent summers and winters on the East Coast. And so I would always say I'm pico-stall, because I was like, you know, in California for school. And then I would go and visit family and even go to summer camp on the East Coast. And so it was very like culture shock from a young age at like 10 when I started going to camp with like so many different kids. But yeah, there was, yeah, there's a lot of times of like me like thinking like, who am I? What do I care about?

How do I bring together things that I knew about myself from a young age? But I didn't go to college knowing I was going to become a teacher. I didn't graduate knowing that I wanted to be a teacher. What did you think you were going to do?

I had no clue. okay, that's not true. So I had no clue with an asterisk that most Jewish parents are like, you're gonna, you need to focus on your career and become a a doctor or a lawyer or whatever. So I thought I was gonna be a lawyer. I worked for, and I also really liked politics. So I worked in a political campaign my undergrad. I was working and volunteering at legal aid societies.

with folks who didn't, afford legal representation and so I thought I wanted to go to law school. And my senior year of college I was studying for the LSAT, I was looking for colleges I wanted to apply to and then a week before taking the LSAT I backed out and was like, I'm not doing it.

that point it was it was a huge disruption for my parents because they had invested a lot of their money to help me with preparation and I really I really thought I was gonna go I was like okay I'm going to the top I'm gonna go to bolt hall it's not known as both anymore but ⁓ Berkeley's law school I'm gonna I'm gonna do the top thing I'm gonna get straight A's I'm gonna get all this stuff and buckle down and I don't want to mess around anymore and so like it was really trying to be like I'm gonna do this professional thing and then when I backed up

of that I was like shit I just got like my highest GPA in my entire career and I don't know what I want to do.

⁓ so I, I think it's interesting that like, even in your pursuit of being a lawyer though, there was already this activism piece. Yeah. So it seems like the things you were drawn towards were like, you know, activists in nature. so I'm just wondering how do you think that informed what you did next? you know, I had to have like a crisis to get to where I would.

was going to be to like teach. You know, of like, okay, well, if I'm not going to go to law school, you know, some context, I grew up in Southern California, which is a nice way of saying Orange County. A lot of folks will say LA, ⁓ but being in Orange County, like the birthplace of Richard Nixon and like conservatism. It's different. It's so different. heard it's different down there. You know, it's funny because I would say, I grew up down south and then I realized, I can't say like the south because it's like has this

other contacts, but it's like a Californian that just like came really naturally to like when I'm like up here in the Bay Area to be like, I'm from the South, like, it's different conservative. It's so different conservative because they they want to, you know, come across as socially liberal and they say that they're like, we're socially liberal and fiscally conservative and like, what does that mean?

And I felt like it was like a homecoming coming to the Bay Area, like specifically to Oakland, right? And if I was going to stay here, I needed to get a job, like any job that I could stay here. And so I got a job as like an account executive at Conoco Minolta selling printers. well. In the financial district. Very different. Not very different than being a lawyer or a teacher. So incredibly different. mean, I was like, was sales. was cold calling, walking into buildings. ⁓

where

I had to be super presented, extra femme, and some context. was in the most unhealthy, I was smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, I was drinking so much coffee. I was just not in a good place. I was having my, like, some.

and intense anxiety and like there were a lot of things happening and I ended up moving in with my now husband to Oakland which I blame him for why I became a teacher for the best way possible because I don't think I would have become a teacher in this path if I hadn't moved in with him.

His upstairs neighbor was doing other stuff and he was also feeling unfulfilled. And then he kind of took a leap of faith and became a camp counselor at the Jewish Community Center in Berkeley and was like, hey, they're looking for enrichment teachers. And I was like, ⁓ like I.

That's before.

I babysat kids and done stuff with my temple and I was like, huh, I'll look into this. And it was like, I got so excited. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna literally have to quit a full-time job with benefits for this part-time job doing something that will bring me so much joy. And it did. And I took this huge leap of faith. was having this mental health crisis and then I was like, okay, well, I need to quit smoking if I'm gonna be working

with kids, like I want to do all these things to kind of like change the direction. And it was like this pivotal point. And that was in 2014. And then as soon as I started doing that, I would like come to Glenview to pick kids up from school and I would like chat with some teachers. I started looking at the grad program at Cal and I was like, this is the one.

like there's no others like I'm not driving to Stanford sorry like I was like and I'm not like doing like anything else because nothing is as high quality like I was like everyone says don't put all your eggs in one basket like

I'm putting on masks. You're queen of the eggs in one basket. Oh my god. And someday it's going to really come to bite me. But so far it's been really, you know, like I think, you know, there's a, there is a beauty like to knowing the thing you want and having the skill and the ability to get it once you know, right? Like I think that's a really special skill. Definitely one I've seen you exhibit. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to ask though, cause you mentioned that like you, like Berkeley's program was the one. Yeah. Like what was it you were

specifically looking for in a grad program when you were, when you, once you decided to be a teacher? Yeah, I wanted something that, you know, brought my, my love of like policy, politics,

Like, let me think about this. like, the buzzwords of the program were like the focus of cognitive development of students with a lens of social justice and equity.

And so to me it was like, okay, if we're not considering the developmental space that our kids are in while also realizing that our kids exist within a context of society and like how society is treating our kids and supporting our systems and things like that can either really help them and understanding, especially from a science and economic level, right? Like the intersection of that I think is something that a lot of people just kind of like

pushed under the rug. Like they kind of know it's there. Like it's like the mess that you know is there, but you're ignoring it and you're not going to like. Yeah. Especially because when we talk about child development, we usually talk about like, you know, the stages of child development and what's appropriate for like an eight year old or like what you can expect from like a class of fourth graders, you know, in terms of what they can handle and what they can't. And that's usually divorced from just like an understanding of how you can move that. And also like how the world around them and the things that are happening in their immediate environment.

like affect that development. Is that kind of you're getting at? Exactly. And so like for me, ⁓ Berkeley's program hit on that and it was like proximity to like where I was living and then also that... ⁓

I wanted to do the best, I wanted to go to the best one. The best program. Berkeley was where I was at.

was reading so much about it. And then when I subsequently got hired as a Stipsa and found out that four teachers were DTE grads, I was like, what?

And then like, being teacher researchers and like not forgetting that, like that our practice, our pedagogy is constantly in practice and that like when you go to work at a school,

school with other folks who have that similar pedagogical. ⁓

mindset, outlook, you know, just overall, like, energy. It can be a really, like, amazing place to work where you want to be the best version of yourself. You want to, like, show up and be there, like, not just for the kids, but for your colleagues, too. To, like, inspire your colleagues, because I think that this job can, ⁓ much like Dementors from Harry Potter, they can just suck the life out of you. Both all the students.

the admin, the system itself, and just like the energy it takes to show up here every day. And so when you find people who can fill your cup up and help you remember like why it is that you teach, especially for those of us who like we've blinked and now 10 years have passed since we have been teaching and...

And it really is wild to think like, you know, why am I still here? Yeah. Why am I still doing this? Yeah. I had this picture in my head of like, I was going to teach for 10 years and then like become, you know, like a coach or like a, you know, something else higher up. I was like, but 10 years, you have to do it for 10 years so that people like take you seriously. When you say you're like in the classroom, you know, because I saw the response people had to feel, like, well, I taught for two years and now, you know, I'm like telling you how to teach English. Exactly. You know, it says like 10 at least.

I'm at 10 and I'm like, still feel like I don't know nearly enough to tell her do 100%. My favorite thing that I remember from those early days, I was picking up, and this is the craziness, there were these twins that I picked up from kindergarten, okay, they're now in high school. And their parents were teachers and I became really close with them. So they were like, okay, look.

the first three years you're gonna feel like, and I'm gonna use some not school-appropriate language, you're gonna be like, how the fuck do these parents trust me with their kids? Like they are dropping off all their children, and you're gonna feel that. For the first three years, you're be like, how am I the one responsible?

for the education of these kids. And like truly, there was a lot of guilt that I had in those first three years of teaching. Even my first year pre-grab when I came in to our school and then accepted a long-term sub position less than halfway through the school year and was the non-credential fourth and fifth grade.

departmentalized ELA teacher and it was like absolutely nuts and you're like I am not enough for these kids. Yeah, fun fact you can become a teacher without a credential. Yes, you do not have to get an emergency credential because we need teachers and so when we find good people and we're like you'd be a good teacher sometimes we hire them and then say now like get your degree while you're doing this which I was never capable of accomplishing. Fun fact, I did finish my thesis.

within the first six months of my first year teaching. Congratulations. Because I did not finish it during the time I was at Drain T.D. program. Shout out to all of my supervisors. You know who you are, Marjorie. Thank you for getting us through it. Oh my god. Yeah. But yeah, so that's the situation we're in, It's just like we need people to fill the spots and you know sometimes that means you kind of have to do everything at once. and I think like something that stood out to me too that you know for anyone listening

right now to the podcast who's like, okay, I have mad respect for what teachers do. I don't feel like I'm capable of it. But if people like go to you and say like, you're going to be you would be an amazing teacher, or like you have the teacher voice or you have these things. Trust what they're saying because teachers can see that when it exists, and you just need to go back and get the that you know, get that support or get the education that's there. Hi, Ms. Robbie. Hi, Ms. Robbie.

But yeah, like, you know, we need people like that and it does take a leap of faith because even 10 years down the road, there's times where we're still like, know, I hate it because we are so capable and it does take a lot of courage to remind yourself like, yes, I am really good at my job and all the training that has led me and experiences that have led me to this point mean that I'm worthy of holding this space. That's actually one of my favorite things that we do.

I love that I'm at a school now where people will just be like, it's because you're so good at your job. I feel like hearing that from my colleagues really helps sometimes, it just feels like nothing's going right and I'm just like, I did this thing. You're like, ⁓ like, you know, we're going to library and they're all quiet. And so it's just like, well, yeah, that's because you're really good at your job. That just feels really nice. We need to hear it.

So want to ask, like the first three years, like nuts, no matter like how prepared you think you are, how much teaching you've done before.

Yeah, so I guess one thing I'm wondering is when you first started teaching up until now, what are some of the, I wanna say foundational things or pillars that you find yourself continually coming back to? ⁓

You know, I think that the biggest thing I think about is...

that I come back to.

So for some context, my first year was like, we don't have to go into like the specifics, but I'm happy to go into it more. I had, and everyone's first year teaching is so incredibly hard and everyone has their own teacher experience.

I used to like, coach first year teachers now and the first thing I do when we sit down at our first meeting is just say like, matter how prepared you think you are for this, you're not. And that's not your fault. Like it's just that until you're in there and you're doing it, this crazy job, like there's just like no way, there's no way to know what it's going to be like. Exactly. And like, I was just like, what we do is unfathomable, know, like this crazy, the amount we're asked to do, like, like it's not possible to fit it all.

and to do it all. And I just find it important to like say that to them first because like it's going to be hellish while you're figuring it out. You know, like I don't want to scare you, but like I'm here just to support you. Right. Like I'm not giving you any grades. Like I'm not, you know, so like what we're going to do is we're going to pick a couple of things that we want to work on. Yes. Cause you're not going to get it all now. And you've got to like give yourself some grace, you know, for the things that aren't working out. Got to give yourself some grace for like, you know, the behavior charts you have to use.

that maybe you don't want to. You need while you're figuring out how to do it. know, like just like keep like I had this professor ⁓ at Berkeley named Larry Nucci. Did you have Larry Nucci? yeah. my God. I love Nucci. He had this beautiful like I'm probably I probably took it completely out. I don't think I took it completely out of context, but like I really attached to this like ⁓

analogy he used of a target and your arrows and how the target helps you decide what the arrows in your quiver are going to be. You know, so if it's like, I know someday I want a classroom that is culturally responsive and multimodal and arts integrated, like that's my someday, that's my target, you know, then that's going to help you decide what other skills you build. And you may start, you know, like shooting those skills, like way off the target. You may have to put other arrows in

there that you don't want eventually just to like keep things moving but if you have that target in mind and you don't lose that then that's gonna make it really easy to see like what tools are getting you closer to that and like what's getting you farther from what you want to be. Yeah I mean and there was like a huge piece too with Larry of like you know and it wasn't just Larry was also in like Senol's class and you know we're talking with Luis and you know about you

intrinsic motivation versus extrinsic motivation and how of course in a dreamy world, in a classroom, we want our kids to just want to learn and to want to like be the best at whatever it is they're doing. that is the reward in and of itself. And then we know that, you know, there's the teachers who are like giving out candy.

other like big flashy things and ⁓ and and that can take away the prize box right that can take away from like the reason why and I think that this is also why as a I'm biased and I love being a fifth grade teacher and an upper grade teacher is because you can also ask your students to be metacognizant of their own actions and like do we need to have this? Like for example today we had this

huge conversation about, you we do something called class convention

which is like an opportunity for class democracy to happen where students can submit some things into the concern bin that they want to change or make better in our classroom or identify a problem. Or if there's not even a problem, they just want to, they think that, this system we could bring in.

improve our class community or it's just something for fun that we should discuss. And one of my students brought up that we should get class dojo points for perfect scores and spelling quizzes and also to get points for rewriting misspelled words. And so we had this incredible discussion. The kids were like, well, no, because kids are going to misspell things on purpose so that they can rewrite them and get points.

was like, huh, okay, like, are we, it's like, sounds like we're, you know, maybe assuming negative intent here. And I was like, why do you think that this person brought this up?

Do you think it could be to incentivize wanting to become a better speller? Things like that. And it was fascinating. They did not want to give out points for rewriting misspelled words, but they wanted to give out points for perfect spelling quizzes. And this is very, it differs with each cohort of students, right? So like some kids have these high expectations and they really want this for themselves. And you know, and then there's like no new,

There's no gray area. And then that really upset some

one student in particular who has this belief that they're not a good speller and they wanted to get acknowledged for trying to do better. So then it's like, okay, well, I'm the teacher, like girl, like let's sit together and we Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Like that's one thing I think about a lot is like within that democratic process, like what is the moment when like, you know, like what are your red lines? You know, what are the things where you're like, we can't do this, you know, because like it goes against like this philosophy I have.

about like what it means to be a teacher versus like what do you let like play out you know as they're exactly exploring what does and doesn't work like for their community yeah and like this whole idea of like that was not equitable in the moment but it was democracy yeah and so like this

moment of democracy in the classroom kind of sheds light on the larger community and economy at hand that we're in, kind of going back to like this case that you can't just... be something the majority wants and still not be fair. like we have to accept the outcome of a democratic or what we imagine as a democratic system even though...

Some people might have evidence to support a claim that like the electoral college isn't democratic, for instance. And so how can an election with an electoral college truly be democratic, right? And then how do you create these systems for change, right? Because in my classroom, I want my students to understand that one person can enact change in their community.

Totally. For the better or for the worse. Yeah. for better, beyond good or evil, right? could just be change, right? And to know, yeah, like where their power is, right? Because like even as young people, they have power and control over certain aspects of their life. But I think like when you're eight, nine, 10, like it doesn't feel like you have any power or control a lot of the time. I think that's like what my, we call it our class Senate meeting.

When I taught third grade, we called it our business meeting. We had a business book. But like what I think is powerful about that process is it does a couple of things. Like if you bring up a suggestion and nobody else likes it, I think it shows that what I want, you know, versus or what I need even versus what like everybody else needs is different. Right. And so in that case, you get an opportunity to be or I will pull that student aside and be like, OK, class didn't think this was a good idea. It's still a think you need.

then you need how else can we advocate for getting like what you need in this situation exactly and it's not and then we're teaching self-advocacy right and we're teaching integrity and we're teaching growth mindset which happened to be my three big beliefs ⁓

not to brag about. Wait, what are they? The three big beliefs. there we go. Integrity, self-advocacy, growth mindset. Right. So like, you know, at least in Room 221, of course we follow our 4B is being respectful, responsible, safe, and kind, right? But I think something that, and I'll kind of tie this with a question that I struggled with answering before, but I'll come back to, it's like, I want to send my students, I have no choice.

and sending my students off into the world. Being a fifth grade teacher at a TK through five elementary school has such a beautiful bookend, right? Where I see them and I've like truly I've known some of these kids since they were in utero. Like I've been at for that long, you know? And I'm gonna send them off into the world.

And I want them to be good citizens. I don't know what they're gonna do with their life and I want them to thrive and succeed. But ultimately, they're going to be human beings. Citizens in the world, right? Of the world, right? Not just of America, right? Like whatever it means. Like I'm not, I'm using the word citizen like as like a human being out in the world contributing to society. Whatever society, whatever community they're gonna be in. If they're gonna be in Oakland, if they're gonna...

wherever they go. And I want them to have those three things. Yeah. And know that they're working on those three things. It's not like, ta-da, you've arrived. You are the most honest person of the world. Congratulations. You did it. Like, you don't like that. There's never like an end point. I think it's also like it was a big light bulb moment for me in like, I don't remember when exactly this like dawned on me, but it's definitely central to what I do as a teacher now. Like it was a big light bulb moment for me when I was like,

things are learned.

Integrity is large. Self-advocacy is large. Growth mindset is large. I think it's often in young people a thing we just expect them to have. It's like that classic thing that's like, you teach them math, you teach them how to ride a bike, you teach them this, but when they don't behave correctly, you yell at them. You what's wrong with you? Like, no, you have to teach them how to do all those

And just because a student's initial reaction is to do the quote unquote wrong thing or the unexpected thing doesn't mean that they can't get there or won't. It's like the power of yet, right? Of like, no, they need it to be modeled to them.

They need a teacher that they, even if the teacher doesn't look like them, they can see themselves in. they need to trust the adults in the room in order to do the learning and to do the work. And so part of all of these things, going back to that initial question of the pillars that have helped me, is the constant push of self-care.

setting boundaries, right? With like both in the classroom and setting boundaries for the classroom and home. ⁓ Because yeah, like I had, you know, a really hard year, first year of teaching, I had a false accusation made against me.

I did have to go on leave for an extended period of time and because all that was happening, I was also having vasovagal syncope where I was like fainting when I was getting really stressed. And so I really had to take care of myself. It was like a moment where it was like, no, no, no, like you only have one body.

And everyone deals with stress in different ways and stress manifests in different ways in different people. And this job will, and unfortunately, like it can't kill you. And we've lost two community members in the last, God, it's been what, three years now, four years? ⁓ And so I think that,

realizing that teachers literally put their lives on the line for this work. And if you don't have balance and you don't take care of yourself, both your physical and mental wellbeing, that it will take you down. Totally. I feel like all of us who have gotten to like, you know, this decade or near decade marker have had to have that conversation with ourselves at some point in time or another. And that's why we're still here. I think it like looks

different for everybody, but just realizing that you easily can pour every second of every day and every ounce of energy that you have into this work, and you can still not be doing everything that you want to do. Because, yeah, and even talking about the boundary setting, right?

So just some context, just came back from maternity leave and I somehow managed to take six months off. Which is amazing. Yeah, not all of it was paid, I'm suffering right now, but it's okay. Like we made it happen and I will never get those six months. Like those, like your child is only six months for six months. Yeah. You know, and everything else, like we can make it happen. And I got to spend that time with my daughter.

⁓ And I'm so grateful for that. ⁓

Hopefully with any other kids that I've taught with in the past will remember that I've told them You are my children. I don't have my own biological children while you're in this room with me you are my children and They were you know like I I've done so many home visits and you know like you know talking about like the being culturally the culturally relevant Pedagogy and you know being a good teacher that really wants to connect with families and reach out to them and you know

⁓ giving so much and that was really hard because you know I'm married to someone who is not a teacher and who doesn't have a job where it's like half of your persona is like yeah attached to your job it's not like you just leave at the end of the day and things close off and I'm like a highly empathetic person and when you have someone who just isn't in that experience it's really...

easy to say like you need to set boundaries and like not care as much yeah which is really hard to tell me that like I don't care as much and know like leave work at at school and don't bring it home because yeah like that that was really hard and for you know to have to think okay well

I can't close the classroom door and leave everything behind, but I can start to realize when I'm emotionally bringing home baggage that's now affecting my relationship with my loved ones at home. And for so many of us, it's really hard to even just get to a point where you're aware that that's why. That's actually a great part of the reason why I started going to therapy, because like my partner at the time was just like.

I am afraid to ask you how your day went, you know, at a certain point, especially like teaching in East Oakland, you know, where there's like always a lot going on. You know, just like I'd either avoid the question or be like, I'd just be in it all night. Like, you whose day? Like which kid's day do you want to know about? Yeah. You know, and so like having just like an objective person whose job is to listen to all of that was like really important for like my mental and relational health. Yeah. You know, and I think also just like

One thing that my therapist said to me that I've found very helpful is like I think we're similar in that like if I were to turn off that empathy and turn off that part of myself that doesn't give up on any kid, you know, and that goes the extra mile. I wouldn't be doing this job the way I want to be doing it. But I remember sitting with my therapist and she was like, okay, so if that's what you are doing, what are you not doing?

You know, it's like, that's where you're putting your energy. Then what are you going to let go and like, let yourself like slack on a little bit for lack of a better word. You know, and for me, that was prep, you know, cause I was putting all this like I, my executive functioning makes it so that I am not a natural planner and preparer. I think for like the first couple of years. Yeah. Connection or doing the like, I agree signal. ⁓ like for the first couple of years, it was really important for me to be hyper vigilant about

that while I was figuring things out. But then eventually it was just making me a grumpy teacher every day because I'd be there till like six the night before prepping everything for the next day. Getting home late and then it's like what's for dinner and then it's like a fight about dinner or... And I found that like knowing like what are the three things that I need to get done before I leave you know so that I can go home refresh come back tomorrow and actually be present and available for my students. What are your three things that you've done at

I

think I have three things that I can share too. Three things? That you do the night before before you go. Oh, the night before I leave. The first thing I do is for the sake of clutter, I make sure that like all of my surfaces except my desk, which is my stuff spot, are cleared off because kids don't like clutter and I am the queen of it. I put my agenda up for the next day so that like that's done and I'm not thinking about everything I forgot and everything we still need to do.

And ⁓ I grade at least one thing, usually our exit tickets. So that way I'm leaving knowing what we need to work on the next day and I'm not trying to shove that. Yeah, for sure Megan was trying, or like first five years of teaching Megan was trying to like, yeah.

cleaning, like I would be worried about cleaning all this stuff up right now. For context, we're sitting on my rug and there's papers everywhere and you know, the kids did not clean up before. And so I would be so worried about all of that now.

That's going to be their problem. That's me. do not tomorrow. We're going to tiny feminist dining up the room. Yeah, I write the agenda the night before. That's like my I will not leave until that's done. I do like to empty out my turn in bed, make sure if I don't grade it, it's organized and stacked. that I sometimes. Yeah. That being said, I have not done it this week and it is Thursday. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's the end of April and we're making it happen.

And for context, yeah, it's just yeah, this has been a crazy OEA week and we've been out you've been out before school After school. Yeah trying to get parents to to be aware of what's going on budget wise and OUSD so Yeah, and then I would say the the third thing is also doing a little decluttering making sure at least for me like my teacher area is clean because when I came back from

maternity leave that was not the case. Not the case. Yeah. That was wild. Yeah. Yeah. And I'd say the other thing that I sometimes or that I do, especially at the beginning of the year, not as much as the year goes on as I try to contact three parents, like just usually with just a positive quick, like here's something your kid did good today. I love that. Yeah. That's a really good, really good advice. Yeah. You know, I think

Sometimes when we break it down, for, you know, as teachers who identify as being neurodivergent, sometimes having like that, like...

little like one, two, three, like, you know, checklist items of like what we can do to feel really good. ⁓ can really help us with like letting things go. Cause I used to lug, I used to like pretend like I was going to go home and grade a whole bunch of stuff. And I had a teacher bag that I would just lug tons of papers in and that gave you back problems. Cause I had a teacher bag that gave me back problems. Yeah. And it was literally just an extra weight that I would just for whatever reason it was truly, it was truly bad.

that I was carrying. True metaphor comes to life. Metaphorical meets literal baggage that I was bringing home with me and it was simply just sitting there. Like talk about baggage. Yeah. Teachers bring home a lot of baggage. do bring home lot of But yeah, just pivot the conversation a little bit. I'm wondering like now that you're in your 10.

Year nine. Almost year ten. I mean technically, mean year nine at I would say 11 years total of teaching. Yeah, and those years count. It's not all consecutive. I mean I always say like I've taught in Oakland for 10 years but like I did study you know education in undergrad so like I've been an educator for a long time now. Like my whole family is teachers so like it's just you know.

It's a thing. So when people ask me how long I've been teaching, that's a hard question. my whole life I've been ramping up towards and teaching. And trying to avoid. Until about halfway through undergrad, I was like, I'm not doing this. We're going to have to do one where we interview you. Oh, right. Yeah.

turning the microphone around. I mean, I'm doing this because I love, you know, because like it is my life and I love it I'm a nerd about it. And I want to like pick other people's brains about like what they love about it. And also just give people a window into like what we do and how crazy it is, but also why we love it. And so one thing I wanted to ask was after being in Oakland, like specifically for that long. ⁓

What is one thing that you would like to see change?

Okay, I love Celine's answer from last week or last episode. About smaller cross sizes. sizes, but to pivot to something a little bit different, ⁓ which kind of ties into my love of teaching and my love of teaching older students and having...

been a student teacher at a school that looked like this. It's kind of a two-parter. I think that schools need to be project-based. Yes. There need to be a lot of project-based learning. And there needs to be no more.

separate elementary and middle schools. need TK through eight. It to be an immediate switch. Okay. Okay. So let's break it down. break it down. So how would, what is project-based learning and how would that change things for the unoriented? Yeah. Who don't understand what that means. like project-based learning or expeditionary type learning is the realization that in quote unquote the real world.

problems do not arise in singular content areas. So for instance, when we do science fair we're like dipping our toes in to what could be something really, really magical and special of like expeditionary learning because we're blending in.

And I'm not in every classroom, I'm not an admin, so I can't say this for certain for every, you know, I'm just one teacher, but you know, you are bringing in English language arts. Oftentimes you are also bringing in social studies, current events, math, reading, writing, math in the form of like. ⁓

graphs, data input, observation. And then you're also bringing in art through scientific sketching. You're understanding nonfiction text features in print and the nuances of how to get people's attention through art and print and media. And then they're even expected to have an interview of judging. So then there's not even the component of the whole inquiry process.

prior to that, even like trying to figure out what question you want to ask, then there's the inquiry process, then there's the investigation process, and then you're putting all of this information on the board, and then you're expected to present it, right? So that is like, you know. So like science fair would be like a project-based learning activity that most of us, you know, may have been familiar with. Exactly. But that's like baby, like compared to like what you can do with it. Exactly. You can do so many, so

much other things you can partner with organizations in your local communities. We're so lucky here we've got Oakland Zoo, we've got Lawrence Hall of Science, we've got gosh I mean across the bay we've got the California Academy of Science, Yeah we used to do a really cool project based learning ⁓

activity at the beginning of the school year when I taught third grade called our school community and we would literally like make a map of the school and like you know use math to make sure that the dimensions were all right and like so that we could get to know like the different places in the school and the different teachers in the different classrooms and then we would like yeah make little videos of like the different expectations for different spaces where we would go. We did like a lot with average class

class sizes, so we were integrating all these different things. And then the final project was kind two parts. One was a mural we made talking about our school community. Each of the kids did it individually on those little... ⁓

test section offers because they had just like weird kid writing all over them. So it's like, let's paint them. that they look as weird with just like things we learned about our school community and like the three components of community and how that shows up like in our school. I love it. And it's so meaningful because the kids are like realizing that they have a voice and that there are things in life that are worth exploring and investigating and being part of. And yeah, then we also took our maps and the videos that we made

And like we basically just made like this like Welcome to our school packet for any new kids or teachers or adults that were coming into the building And then they actually use that like when I get a new student and like Spanish and English and Arabic And then like students when they came in would use that and watch the videos they knew what our chant was and how to line up and how to get lunch and Yeah, it was just giving me ideas. I right

I'm really happy that I'm done with year three so I can start figuring out what this looks like in fourth and fifth grade because project-based learning is where it's at, It really is. Yeah, it just brings it alive and makes it relevant and does that ⁓ intrinsic value thing that we want learning to do where if what you're doing is naturally exciting and it's getting you to show up every day, then you don't need a sticker. exactly.

or a marble in the jar. Yeah, those things are still nice like the acknowledgement is nice but when the learning can be that rich I've just seen what that can do you know for students. It's empowering and it gives students opportunities to see themselves you know in potentially in different you know career sets. In years past I so many

our latest principal, not the one that we currently have, but the one prior to that, ended up leaving our school and then got a job working as a camp coordinator for this really fun camp that many of the teachers ended up going and teaching over the summer at this camp. And we then like...

I at least took some of the curriculum from the camp, which were like so cool. So there was like a week, talked about like my old bringing in my expertise. There was a week of being lawyers. cool. And so and doing mock trial through theater. OK, so then we were taking like, ⁓ you know, like stories like ⁓ like Goldilocks and the Three Bears and Goldilocks is on trial because when you realize that Goldilocks ⁓

There's

some wild, like, and entering. Not respecting boundaries. trespassing. You know, she's like a damage of private property, you know, and all of these things. And then we have these, you know, the students get the roles in the class and then we learn about like court systems and, you know, you can sneak in a few like ways that you learn this and then we have to reorient the room and we talk about the importance and the roles of, you know, all of the, you know, the functions and the roles of all the

people part of a courtroom and you know multiple perspectives and how one person's perspective might change. Yeah I mean the kids love it so I've done it in the past if we finish a you know our curriculum early and we have like

that big going on like the last week and a half of school. There's been two years that we went to law school. Well that's so For the last two weeks and that was like such an amazing thing and I like to think that maybe some kids like were like ⁓ I want to

that I can do like this one this other piece or become a judge or you know whatever it is or at least or someone who just is a critical thinker and is aware that there are multiple perspectives in the world and that the truth is somewhere

in that center Venn diagram of the Venn diagram, right? Because like, you know, so much of what we do, we think is like being isolated. And that's like the whole piece of expeditionary learning is like, no, there it is this multifaceted, very like almost like a disco ball of all of these, you know, things being reflected off. And we want our kids to realize that, like, when we're when we're asking them to do something that it doesn't just exist in some like,

you know

like oxygen-less, like just like, it's not just math, it's not just writing, it's not just reading. in that world. No. Like we definitely don't. I think expeditionary learning, and especially the collaborative aspect of it and the problem solving and like the innovation aspect of it, like where they just have a lot of room to come up with an idea and then see it through, far better reflects the kinds of people they need to be successful.

in today's world than you know keeping things in those boxes. Yeah because so many kids don't you know and it sucks because and I'm sure you've seen this too like even in an elementary school okay by the time we get them whether it's even third grade fourth grade fifth grade they have these core beliefs about themselves that make me like wince inside. Yeah and I'm at math. ⁓

Yeah, and you know without like naming names, we have had traumatic younger grade teachers who my students still bring up to this day. Yeah. And thankfully they're not here anymore. And our job as upper grade teachers, unfortunately, even if it's talking about the power that one person can enact change in their community.

And it's not always good change, right? Like sometimes it's unlearning and undoing.

what those core beliefs and the harm and the trauma that have occurred. And so in my class, they're not allowed to say, I'm bad at math, I'm bad at spelling. I said, you are 10 years old. Yes, you've been on the You're 10 or 11. You are actually not allowed to say this because you're still growing and learning. And in fact, scientists have have cognitive scientists have discovered that your brain is still developing until you're 25. And guess what? Even when you're 25, you're not done. Yeah. And you're not done learning. That's so important for them to hear. And like the ones that really break my heart,

are

the ones that get to me by fourth or fifth grade and they're just like, I'm bad.

you know, just flat out and that that's been the message they've gotten going through school. And I think that can happen intentionally and unintentionally. Right. Like you can have you know, a teacher who really does harm in a way that's noticeable. And also there are just lots of ways that if we aren't being reflective about our practice and thoughtful about what that target is and what arrows we're using to get there, then you can do unintentional damage. Yeah. And I think that that's also that's hard.

breaking and that's a really hard part about the job is there's times where we might go home at the end of the day and think like my god is that gonna

cause like, did I cause severe damage? how I messed up? like, was the worst. Yeah. Yeah. Or like, I did not recognize that that voice that came out of me in that moment. Right. And I think that also makes teaching in Oakland so powerful because and it comes with enormous responsibility, especially like

looking at our whiteness, realizing that there are going to be students who don't see themselves in us, right? And we're not here to just teach to some of the kids. Like for those of us here in our work, we want to reach every single student. And so to be mindful, aware, nuanced.

And also know when to step back. And I think that that's been my largest goal. It's like I talk a lot. I have a lot of teacher voice. And knowing when to step back and not need to add anything or create a space where my students feel safe enough to like share those things or grapple with things that they've heard or seen in their community. And then.

find ways to bring joy in the room so that they like, you know, cause trust is a complex beast, right? Sometimes trust happens when you share trauma, when you're, when you have a shared trauma in the classroom, like we did last week, some wild stuff happening where, you know.

if a student feels safe enough to share something really hard and harmful that happened to them in the past and then now that harm is spread to other kids, how do you...

with care and realization that all of our students come from different places and different situations. And we don't know all of our students' trauma and what one domino can set off or one ripple can then set off. It is an impossible job to do that. being a teacher in Oakland requires being a trauma-informed educator.

one thing that Oakland needs to do better.

Completely, yeah, if we're adding to the list. If we're adding to the list of the things that need to happen. I think there are like, a school like ours, I think, doesn't get as much of that support as, because I feel like I got a lot of that training working in underserved areas that have a lot of big T trauma happening all the time. It was not perfect, but I definitely saw, but trauma happens to all of us. And your lived experience,

informs how big something feels, right? So like if you're someone that not much has happened to and then your dog dies, like that is trauma. Like this is your first experience of death in your life. You know, was like for another student, like if you've experienced like real violence, you know, in your life from like people and community and your dog dies, like that probably still hurts and it's sad, but it's not like your first experience with that. But that doesn't mean that like, you know, one experience is more valid than the other.

and the things that affect us and hurt us, we do need to attend to. And And I think part of that, too, talking about also this piece of therapy and really if you are an educator in Oakland or an educator honestly anywhere.

Consider consider just going to try therapy just try it and you know, if you are like I can't Do this with this person? Try it with a different person. Yeah, they're for shopping is Intense and it can be and I also say like they're just like dating. It is shopping It's true there's an exchange of goods and services And it's also I I have to remember that like, you know, I I do feel

so, so grateful that the health insurance I have.

allows me to finance like I'm financially able to afford to go to therapy once a week usually. And so that's not the case for a lot of people and for a lot of people they're dishing out a hundred dollars a session or more. And so the financial piece of that I am completely aware of and tack that onto the list that of let's say not it's not even Oakland School District's responsibility it's the responsibility of the state to be able to provide mental health support for students.

while we're at it. And for teachers. What did I say? I meant for teachers. you were getting to four students. Four students too, right? Because we do need school psychologists and like nurses. Why don't we have a full-time nurse? Why don't we have a full-time counselor and school psychologist? mean like these are things that, you know, I... Yeah, what would change?

has to happen for us to demand this on a state level. Especially with the potential dismantling of the Department of Education. It's like my dreams of being, of potentially going from ⁓ maybe county superintendent, schools, not even the county superintendent, the Oakland superintendent potentially to something larger. Could there be something larger?

Yeah, I don't know. What does that look like? It's a very, it's an interesting time to be trying to like think about the future in education. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. We didn't really get into the K through eight schools. Do you want to say something just like quickly? I'll briefly touch on that. Yeah. ⁓ we've been talking for a while. I'll briefly say this. My, my experience and the one

school that did TK through eighth grade was still set up as there's like the elementary and and the middle school. However, there are so many opportunities for... Okay, let me rewind before I get into like opportunities for our older students. Our students...

when they go through puberty and in their adolescent years are in the most tumultuous mentally and physical time in their life.

And then what do we do with them? And what do we do with them? We ship them off. We take them out of a situation where in the best case scenario, okay, best case scenario, they are at the same school that they've been at TK through fifth grade. Realistically, that's not always the case. Some of our kids will move to a different school. Some kids move more than have been to more than two elementary schools in their life. But in any case,

They've been with the same group of kids. They see these teachers that they've been here with for, I'm gonna assume somewhere between five to seven years in a row. And then at the time where they need trust, trusting adults the most in their life.

they have to start fresh and meet all these new adults. And not just fresh, we, pour them all into this building of like 1000 kids. It is a siphon. all going through the same thing. Like just like it is a, it is adolescent soup, right? Like it's just like everybody is going, it's puberty soup. It is puberty soup. through it at the same time. It's stinky. It's stressful. They're, you know, you bring in everything else that's going on in the world. And then,

like, I said this is gonna be quick. And then add in this awful phenomenon, and I'm gonna go like hard from like, you know, we can laugh because we teach puberty health ed and we love it and we see how beautiful they are. And they've come back to visit and they talk about, you know, the growth that they've made and, you know, having a safe space to talk about these things here and then they leave. And then there's that it's like your arm is cut off. you they know that I'm here.

But it feels severed. And so there's a gap there. Now, because of technology, have students that will still reach out to me on Google Chat.

Which is very sweet. Which is like the most precious thing ever. I'm also like, thanks to Go Guardian too. Like I had my old class pop up and so I was like seeing what they were doing like on that which was really cool. I almost wanted to like send a message but I knew that I was gonna just throw a wrench in their school day because they're like working on like I Ready stuff. you know we want our kids to like feel that closeness to come and talk to us because now we're seeing this phenomenon across the country of young students turning to violence against their peers.

against their teachers and in some cases against their parents which is something that is we as educators and and I feel grateful to have this like platform with you because I I'm curious to see and we're not gonna get answers but I'm curious to see if there's like any other educators that are noticing that our kids are crying out for help the kids are not all right they're not

And in turn, the adults are not all right. Kids are feeding off of their adults, off of the community. It's a stressful time And when you pull the rug out from under them, and then you add these other pieces, like we're still, yes, we're in the post-COVID era, but no, there were some severe things that happened that were not addressed.

And then we're continuing to see this phenomenon of school shootings, of violence, of fistfights. Isolation. Of bullying and peer pressure and this like newfound communication of like group chats and like all this other stuff. You know, they need that community more than ever.

And so when we bring together our students who are going through that adolescent time and we keep them under the same roof and we give them leadership opportunities and opportunities for check-ins with teachers that they know and that they've built those trusting relationships with. And it really is their community hub. I bet, I bet, I bet, right? There are schools in Oakland that do that. There are. Yeah, and it's a really interesting.

model to me. And they're charter schools, right? there's like other, not all of Or they're dual language. they want the Spanish learning to move Yeah, the immersion. Yeah, the immersion to move up through their middle school experience. So, you know, I think it's possible. And honestly, I want to know how do we get that I mean, I don't think we have the infrastructure. We would have to start building out a little bit more.

But then you don't have to let them go. You can just see what they're doing every day. And then they know that they can come in and truly they literally can always come back and see me. And then it's like, you know, realizing like...

When we say our kids truly are the future of society and we think about all of the things that society, all of the pressure that society puts on education, ⁓ there are certain things that when educators say, me on this, that people really need to listen because we've been through so much.

And of course, there's always exceptions, right? There's always, you know, there's always the, yeah, there's always exceptions to this, but, you know, ultimately, like our kids need us, they need stability. And I think that the biggest disservice we're doing to them is defunding schools. Number one. Number two, we're sending them off too soon.

And in both cases of sending them off to middle school when they need their community and it needs to just be a bridge, right? Not a full different campus. And then there just really needs to be a lot more mental health support.

So much more. We've got to start taking that seriously in a way we're just, like, I feel like so much lip service is put to it, but when you look at the actual, resources available to, students, I know this isn't just an Oakland thing, but,

the resources actually available to students. it's a completely different story. our psychologist doesn't live in this state. She lives in Texas. Which is like funny, but not funny. I think it's New Jersey. There's a new one in Texas. So you don't even know where she lives. Yeah, Yeah, she lives in Texas. Great. Yeah. Yeah. So we can't get we can't afford to pay a psychologist enough money that they want to come work at our school and we can't hold a position full time.

You know, and so, yeah, I would say that, you know, there's a lot of work to do. not going to solve these problems today. Well darn, why are we even doing this? Forget it, I'm shutting the podcast down. I was expecting us to solve at least like one problem a week with this thing. ⁓ Yeah, no, so all that said, like, you know, I feel like anybody listening to this would be like, you know, why do you do this job? So like, that's the question I'm going to end with. It's it's been nine years.

still here? Why are you still here? Like, what brings you back?

I mean, I want to say something profound, but I think simply it's going back to that core belief that one person can enact change in their community. And I can make change and inspire others.

and be creative while I do it. I think that's why I'm still here. I do, I love the kids. I do have a biological child of my own now, but they're still my kids. And I still love watching them, know, grapple with life. yeah, I think that the vicarious joy. Absolutely.

It's the kids, right? It's the kids. I know it's like, feel like every time I ask this question, like everyone's, I hope, I hope everyone's gonna be like, it's the kids. It's the kids. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I love that creativity piece. Like just like the, the space we have within this room to like build and make something beautiful. You know, as we're sitting in your classroom right now, and I'm looking at some of the beautiful things that your class has built and created this year. Like, yeah, it really just is like,

Yeah, such a special creative space. And we do get to make a difference every day. We do. do. This job will test us in every aspect and ⁓ even in the hardest days. We wake up and we...

show up. And we find joy and we find humor and I think that's the thing I love most about teachers is just you develop this ability to like...

Accept, you know, accept the crazy. Yeah. Figure out which parts of the crazy you shouldn't accept and try to focus on doing something about those and then just find the humor and the rest of it. Flourish in the chaos. Flourish in the chaos. I really want to call this episode Flourish in the Chaos. love that. That's beautiful. Well, thank you for taking all this time to talk to me today. Thank you, Erin. And yeah, thank you for just being.

great at your job. Thank you for being great at your job.

Well, we could keep doing this forever. Yeah, we could. But I have a baby.

and I have four babies. yeah. I'm glad you did this with me today. I love you. I love you too. Thank you so much. Shut this thing down.

Erin Ronhovde (1:11:22)
I wanted to take a moment at the end to thank you for listening to and supporting Teacher Voice. So often as educators, we do this work in a vacuum with only each other to talk to, and it's been so amazing to let you listen in on some of those conversations that we have. I started

by talking to teachers at my school just to get my feet wet and get a sense for how this format would work. And I'm now looking to expand to talking to other educators around Oakland. So if you know an interesting, passionate educator who you think would be an amazing person to talk to, I would love for you to get in contact with me and let me know.

I also wanted to shout out my student, Anna Boardman, who created the new logo for our website and podcast. It's truly beautiful. Thank you, Anna.

If you've been enjoying Teacher Voice, You can subscribe to this podcast on Spotify, on Apple Music, and on any other place where podcasts are found.

I'm also really curious to know what people think now that we're two episodes in. What have you enjoyed hearing about? What do you wish I would have asked that I didn't?

I really want this to be a community where we can all learn more about what it's like to be an educator in Oakland and your input is a big part of that.

There is a space on our website where you can send us a message. Also at this point, many of you listening know me, so feel free to reach out by other means if that works better for you.

So until next month, this has been Ms. Ron Havdia with Teacher Voice. Tune in next time to hear me talk with another amazing educator about their story and how they got into this work and what keeps them coming back. Take care.