Blue Hen Outdoors Podcast
Hunting,travel,outdoors,comedy
Blue Hen Outdoors Podcast
Episode 66: Guro Outfitters ( Sonora Mexico)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This episode we have Rod from Guro Outfitters down in Sonora Mexico. We talk about how he started guiding and what makes Sonora such a great place to go hunt, we also talk about how it’s a great place for bucket list hunts of giant mule deer and desert bighorn sheep, we also discuss what goes into hunting them and how/ what the process is for hunting down in Mexico
Hit him up to get a once in a lifetime experience
@gurooutfitters
Welcome back to another episode of the Blue Hen Outdoors Podcast. I am pleased to have with us tonight Mr. Rod from Guerrero Outfitters down in Sonora, Mexico. How are you doing tonight, sir?
SPEAKER_00Good, good. Doing great. Excited to be here.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. Let's start with how did your uh season go this year with guiding?
SPEAKER_00Uh good. It was pretty good. Um she punt was a little slow at the beginning, uh, but we we managed to do great uh throughout the season.
SPEAKER_01What about on the uh mule deer side?
SPEAKER_00Mule deer, we did good, but Sonora right now is struggling a little bit uh with mule deer population and size due to several several factors, you know, not just one. Uh the main one being we had three bad years of drought. Oh, okay. Yeah, and one year they can handle it, two years, yeah, three years is just a little too much for them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But gladly, this year rained a lot. Uh, so we expect good things coming up. At least this year should be pretty good. And if things keep going like that, in two years it should be great again.
SPEAKER_01You know, that's awesome. So, how did you get started guarding and outfitting down there in Sonora?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh, we started, I believe it's eight years now. This this was our eighth season. I was lucky enough to grow with my dad to grow up uh hunting, and he used to love hunting in Sonora. And I was able to go when I was, I think the first time I went there, I was 12. Um, and since the first time I went there, I just fell in love with it. Uh met several people, uh started going often, and then eight years ago, like I said, one of those guys I know since I'm a little kid, um, said, Hey, do you want to join me? See if we start an outfit. Um, and we're like, eh, why not? You know, yeah. Uh I went there because I live in Mexico City actually. I I was in Sonora for his grandmother's 80th birthday.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh so I changed my flight. I stayed there several more days. Uh, we checked out some ranches out, uh, and we started out with just one ranch and two meal deer. And that's how we began. I mean, we never expected to grow much bigger, etc. You know, but things just happen.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. What makes Sonora such a good hunting destination compared to other places?
SPEAKER_00That's a very good question. Um, I believe the biggest difference is it's private land, you know, it's all private land. So at the end of the day, if you take care of private land, it's gonna deliver, you know, eventually. So that would make the first difference. And the other one is there's big deer. I mean, genetics are there, you know. It's like the good areas in Colorado. I mean, the genetics are just there, they've always been there. And if you take care of the animals, they will produce, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can see a couple of big deer behind you there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, they're all from Sonora, uh, the sheep as well. Well, this this one here, it's a koose, it's a nice coose, it's all also from Sonora.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So, I mean, well, one thing we have koos, well, big coups, big mule deer, big desert big one sheep, and we have very good populations as well. Oh, yeah, and the genetics, so it's it's just a very good place as long as it's managed the proper way, you know, because it's like everything you can have a great ranch and you can destroy it pretty fast.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, for sure. A lot of guys I know in the states kind of can do that, like they'll have a good ranch or a good spot for a couple years, and then like after like mismanaging it or not managing it properly, that kind of just tanks it right away, right away.
SPEAKER_00And the issue is to come back, it takes a long time. Like you can destroy it in a year, and to make it back, it can take you four or five years. Oh, yeah, easily it's it's very delicate.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, how has the um hunting culture down there changed over time? Like since you've started and started guiding and getting into it.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think back in the day, Sonora was not a place that Americans would look at to hunt, you know. I'd say it has become a boom in the past years. Um past years, I don't mean two, three years, I mean more back. But like when I first started hunting, there was no hunting pressure whatsoever. You know, I mean we hunt a ranch, me and my dad, nobody else would hunt that ranch the whole year. Uh the neighboring ranch ranches, maybe two guys hunted one, maybe the other ranch, nobody hunted it, you know. And so nor well, America started seeing that there was an opportunity, and and some outfitters started growing, and a lot of America started coming, you know, and and obviously it was great. I mean, nobody expected that, you know, and it was also pretty cheap back in the day as well. So I think I mean it's just skyrocketed, and now I think it's it's flattened out since I know several guys have not done good, you know. I mean, this past year for mule deer, I know lots of hunters have not done good due to, like I mentioned, several reasons. So, right now, uh unfortunately, I think it's good for for the deer, uh, not good for the hunters that were not successful, you know. Um, yeah, but I think we need to have a little bit less pressure, hunting pressure. And sadly, well, in the meal deer area, I'm we I do believe there's too many tags out there, you know. And the government should do something about it, but I'm pretty sure they're not gonna do anything about it. So, in our case, we take matters into our own hands. Uh so we used to use about 50% of our tags, our meal deer tags. Now we use around I don't know, 38%, somewhere around. So we reduced it a little bit more uh for now. I mean, we'll see how how things go, you know. Uh but we I mean, we're here for the long run. We want to have great deer, you know, every year. So we need to adapt to the situations, right?
SPEAKER_01What was the big draw for you when you started guiding for meal deer and uh bighorn sheep?
SPEAKER_00What do you mean the the the big draw or or what what made it like what like what drew you to them like specifically? Well, I at first I didn't know if I was gonna like it to be honest, because I I was used to hunting, so I was scared that I'm gonna be guiding and I'm not gonna be hunting, and it's gonna be horrible, you know. I mean that's what I thought at the beginning, I really did. Um, but when I first like the first meal there we shot the first sheep, I I got even more excited than if I was hunting, you know. So I got pretty hooked in it, and definitely after the first year, it's like, yeah, I want to keep going, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. What's the um terrain like there where you guide at? I mean, I can assume it's desert, so like you have your flat desert areas, probably some mountains when you're in the big horn areas.
SPEAKER_00It's it's a mix and match, yeah. Like you say. Um overall, you know, but for mule deer, normally it's pretty flat with some hills because they do like uh hills. Then the mountains for sheep, they're not tall, like they're not like your stone sheep and doll sheep mountains that are absolutely huge, but they're really tough, like they're small, tough mountains. Like, like it's unbelievable. You look at it, and literally it's not high. But once you're halfway up there or coming down, you're like, I do not want to be here all day. You know, there's no way. We have hunters that have hunted the whole world, they've hunted 32 different species of sheep and goats, and blah blah blah blah. And you ask them which one is the toughest mountains you've ever been. Um, most of them say like the steep is the most dangerous the Caucasian mountains, but then they're like this ones, and they're small, you know. Like you look at them and they're not intending to meet dating by any means, but once you're up there, you're like don't want to be here very long.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no doubt. What um how does like uh conditions and we kind of mentioned it a little bit when we started the conditions and like drought affect the hunting, if if at all?
SPEAKER_00No, yeah. I mean, for for sheep, we haven't noticed any difference, to be honest, but for meal deer, it's incredible the the difference. Like I mentioned before, I mean it it's a tough place to live. It's it's incredibly hot. Like if you go there in January, June, well, sorry, in July, August, you you can you can melt pretty much. So when there's just bad drought for a couple of years, you will see maybe even below 50 on the population. Like for me, in my hunting time since I was a little kid, this is the second time I've seen this, but back in the day we had one, uh it was, I think, three, four, maybe four years drought. It was probably a little worse than this one. And the ranch that I had hunted all my life, which is big, like 15,000 acres. I don't think there was I don't think there was a deer over one 70 when normally there would be 10 or more, like that bad, you know. And then uh, but the thing is it comes back pretty fast, which is pretty amazing, you know, like two years of good rain, and they'll start showing up. I don't know where where are they coming from because I mean they're not little babies, you know. I mean, just deer start coming up. I I really don't get it sometimes, but but it does affect a lot for for meal deer.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, especially the droughts. I mean, up here, I know for us totally different, but as far as like the waterfowl side up here, or because waterfowl is big where I'm at. I'm in Delaware up in the States on the East Coast, and uh we not that we've had bad droughts, but we've had a good continuous three or four years of decent amount of drought.
SPEAKER_00It just accumulates. I mean, oh yeah, like I said, if we have one bad year, it nothing's gonna happen. But two, three, four, if it's five, it would be a complete disaster, you know, there'll be very few deer left.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. What um what makes uh bighorn hunter successful versus the unsuccessful ones?
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um for me it's pretty simple uh being able to engage the target fast and make an accurate shot. That's that's the biggest issue we have. It's like a lot of people are very used to shooting in the range, off the bipod with uh sand behind, blah blah blah, you name it, and they can take five minutes to engage the target, this and that. Um, and sadly, when you come to the reality of sheep hunting, is normally we do have time. We're we normally are not in a rush because normally we make a stock where the sheep does not know we're there, but sometimes it's just hard for them to find the animal, to put the animal on the scope, to get a good setup, and to make a good shot. Yeah, that's our that's our biggest issue we have, and we have it. I mean, I tell them beforehand, please go practice, engage a target, uh, do it very often, try to be very comfortable at 500, 600. Uh you're probably gonna shoot a 350 or something, but I want you to be comfortable at 600, you know. And we get guys that can do it very easily, and we get some guys that just it's they struggle a lot, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. What um how do you judge a good ram in the field? Like from being because I know sometimes you can be like 300 plus yards out while you're looking and scouting them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, we scout them from further normally, but it's it's like every animal. I mean, they have good angles, they have bad angles. Uh for me, the first thing is the first four or five seconds for me are the most important. If he doesn't impress me or looks big in the first five seconds, for me, it's probably not a shooter. That doesn't mean I'm gonna keep not look at him more, but for me, that's that's the first thing. Uh, just like I'm talking just five seconds, you know. After that, I mean, like I said, normally we do have a good time to check them. Um, I always first I start with the bases, you know. I I want to see if those bases look really big. If he's from behind, I'd like to see the back part rounded. Um, normally the more rounded they look, the thicker they are. And then I always want to see the length, you know, uh from the side ideally. Because what happens, I mean, if you see these two guys behind, both of them are going up. And I mean, that usually it's good, you know. The third thing I would look is do they get thinner very fast or no? Like do they start losing the mass faster? No. And lastly, um, I look, does it is it a wide curl, you know, or or is it just a tight curl? Because all this gives you, it's very easy to have an optical illusion, you know. I mean, for if it's a tight curl, he might look very heavy everywhere, but he's not, it's just an optical illusion, just because he's just tight, you know, so it's gonna look it's gonna look uh more mass for sure. And if you have a ram that's that's goes up, goes down, goes under, like like his horns are down here, and and he's going up, then he's gonna be long for sure. And and if you know he's long for sure, then if he looks pretty thick, he's gonna be thicker than what you think. Okay, so for me, ideally, I want to see a rand that looks very long and then that carries his mess around. Uh, then I know he's gonna be big for sure.
SPEAKER_01What about for judge a mule deer?
SPEAKER_00Like, do you guys kind of look for a certain amount of points on one side because then that's like a big thing up here as far as I mean we try we try to um make sure he's a typical four by four, you know, at least. And if he's not a four by three four, I mean maybe a four by three, but know that he's a four by three, you know. I mean, we would tell our client, hey, he's a four by three, you know, he might be huge. Um, we missed one this year, four by three, he's 190 plus deer, you know. I mean, but we do like to tell him it's a four by four, it's a five by four, it's blah blah blah. Uh first of all, and then well, the first judging we use is normally the ears, because that that gives you a very good uh estimate on the width. And then once you got the width, uh you can send me no. If he if he's wide and he looks tall, he's he's gonna be huge, you know. Um, so yeah, first we go. Well, at least I go with the wideness first. Well, how many points? How wide? And then I'll go to the tall and mass.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And ideally, I mean, well, some of the high scoring mule deer are not necessarily wide, you know. Uh, they're more tall. But like said, even if he's I mean, by the years, you know how wide he is. So if he looks very tall or not tall, you'll know how big it is just just with that reference, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it's it's a lot simpler with mule deer, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, most definitely.
SPEAKER_00I mean, sheep can be deceiving, yeah. Especially like I said, normally we don't make a stock unless we know we're gonna shoot him, so we're judging them sometimes a mile away, a little over a mile away. So it can get a little tricky sometimes, unless, like everybody wants, you know, the one that you look at him three seconds, you know, he's a giant, but it doesn't happen every day, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, for sure. Have you ever uh glassed a ram and thought it was a good one, and then as you got closer to it, it you turned out. It's like ah nah, this is a no-go.
SPEAKER_00We have done it, especially at the beginning, you know. Uh, I don't know how to explain. Sometimes if they look big from far away and you start getting closer and they look big, they're probably bigger. But sometimes when you get close, they start going small and they're they're just small, like they go either way, you know. And yeah, I mean, even with the best spotting scopes here and there, sometimes with us if they're in the shade or in the sun, it makes it it's completely different, you know. The sun will make them look bigger, the shade will make them look smaller. So we have sometimes we're like, you know what, let's just cut the distance just to get another look, you know, and we will hike up a little and then but under under a thousand yards, we know exactly if we're gonna shoot or not.
SPEAKER_01Okay, what's the biggest RAM and mule deer you've guys got it for so far?
SPEAKER_00Uh the biggest ram was 184 and change. Oh wow, yeah, 184 and change. Um we have three over 180. Three over 180, uh, like 184, 182, and change, 181 and change, and 179, 178. Um, those have been the five biggest, and then for deer, um, we have 213 was the biggest. Oh wow, 213, and then we had a year that we shot a 205 and the 206 as well, but these was a year before just one before the drought started. Um, we were doing pretty good, pretty good then.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. So what makes the mule deer different down there versus up here in the United States as far as like genetics that you see or things that you've heard and seen?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I believe these are pretty similar to to the ones in Arizona. That that would be the only ones I I would uh consider them similar, even though in Arizona they like well, the best places in Arizona, they they might have more kickers here and there. Here, they're pretty typical. Like for here to kill a six by six, it's it's very, very hard. You know, most of them are four by four, five by four, maybe five by five. Um every I mean, like all these guys in the back at the end. Uh this this one is a four by four with a little kicker here. This one is straight up four by four. Uh, this is a four four by one of this is uh five by four because it has a kicker on each side, but it's missing the the the split G2.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh so they're pretty typical, you know. It's you're not gonna find 20-point meal deer. I mean, it's good, but it's it's not the genetics here, you know. Most guys want to come here to get a 30-inch wide mule deer or uh 190 200 4x4 or 5x4, you know, something typical, just just big frames, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. Do you see that certain areas of Sonora have better genetics than others, or like different ranches have better pockets of genetics than others do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it's like everything at the end. There's some areas that will have better genetics than others. Um, overall, I'd say in Sonora you can find a big one pretty much everywhere, but some areas definitely have more population and better genetics.
SPEAKER_01Do you think that it's like diet that uh accumulates to that or like the how much they move?
SPEAKER_00That's that's a good question, but I probably have to say that it probably goes long way back for the genetics, is my guess, you know. Um, but yeah, it probably has to do with the vegetation as well. Because Sonora it's a big state. I mean, I mean, northwest the climate and the terrain is completely different to the middle, uh, to the northeast. It's very, very different. So I'd say the Best mule deers are close to Hermosillo, and then you go up north and to the coast, you know. The further you go towards Chihuahua, they they just get smaller and smaller. So I'd say there's a big, big chunk of Sonoya that has the main genetics, and they do move a lot. I mean, the mule deer over there move a lot more than most people think.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. Do um what's your approach for spot and stalking versus glassing when you guys are making your move on one, whether it be a ram or a mule deer?
SPEAKER_00Well, what do you mean? What's my my take? Is it like so?
SPEAKER_01Say you guys are glassing one you see and one that you have. How do you go from glassing to go to spot and stalk them? Okay.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm gonna start with sheep. Um once we find the the sheep we want, we get pretty excited. Uh, two reasons. The odds we we're gonna get him are pretty good. Um, but like I said, we we will glass him and glass him, do not disturb him, do not disturb him until he he, I mean, we will never make a stock if he's moving. Like if he's feeding, we're not gonna go up because we're gonna waste our time pretty much. By the time we get there, he's gonna be on the other side here or there. We're gonna have to come down, make another plan. It's just not worth it for us, right? So, what we do is we normally try to wait for him to bed. That's our go-to thing, you know. So once he beds, if he beds in a place where we can do the stock, we'll go ahead and do that stock, um, knowing where he's at. I mean, he can always get up and go somewhere else, but but the chances that we're gonna get a little more time it are a lot better. So, like I said, normally when we do the stock, we know we're probably about 80-90 percent uh sure that we're gonna be able to to take a shot at him. So that's how we try to go on that on the sheep. Uh for the meal deer, it's like if you're glassing the top of hill and you spot one, it's pretty much a game time decision. Like what you're gonna do next can vary greatly depending on so many things. You know, is he with those? Is he alone? Is he bedded? Is he eating how far he is, uh, how thick the terrain where he is is because sometimes they're in thick terrain that you you can like if you go down, you're never gonna see him again. So sometimes, like I said, with a deer, it would vary a lot on what to do.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. What's a day in the or what's a general hunting experience like with you guys when guys come from when they come in to stay in to the hunt to packing out and then everything, everything, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. So normally we pick our clients up in Tucson, Arizona. Okay, it's just simpler. I mean, for them, etc. Uh, so we we have a driver that goes pick them up. Uh that driver has their gun permit. We cross a border through a very small crossing uh on purpose. That way we know there's no line, there's no waiting time, etc. Uh, once we cross to Mexico, we'll check in the gun uh with the Mexican government. They'll check the paperwork. Shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes. Uh, and then well, we try to pick our clients before noon, you know, and took some that way. We normally get to town, uh, have a little bit of lunch, uh, make sure we have everything, and then we'll try to make it to the ranch uh before the end of that day. You know, once we get there, the chef will be there uh already, uh with dinner ready, etc. We'll bring everything out, unpack, have a good dinner, and try to sleep well. Sometimes, you know, the first day for Hunter, he might be a little excited, he might not sleep that well, you know, that first night. But uh well, uh, if we have time, we'll check the gun uh that same afternoon. If not, we'll check it uh early morning. We always like to to throw a couple bullets out there, just make sure the rifles are on. Um, and then for sheep, we'll start glassing. Uh, we'll we'll have two teams. Normally we'll split, you know, we'll have a hunter with a guide and a spotter, and then we'll have another two guys uh somewhere in another truck somewhere else, just covering ground because we need to cover a lot of ground. So literally with sheep, we'll just glass glass, glass, move, glass till we find the one, or where we see more movement, we might stick there for a while, you know, see because it's incredible. You if you think there's no more sheep, and they're there. I mean, you wait 20 minutes and three more pop out out of who knows where, and then three more, and it's like, I mean, how's this possible? You know? So it's uh sheep, it's it's a lot of patience, literally a lot of patience. Um, like I said, the good thing is we have the other team, so that always I don't know. For me, it's kind of exciting because you never know when they're gonna tell you, hey, we found a good one, you know. Uh midday, uh, it depends where we're hunting. We might have lunch with us and we'll find the shade. Uh, maybe put a little fire, heat up our burritos or whatever we have for lunch. And if we're close to the house, we'll we'll go back to have a good lunch. Uh that just depends on where we're hunting or like what ranch we're hunting, or how far into the ranch we're hunting. It'll depend. But we'll probably uh I mean our sheep hunter eight full days of hunting. We'll probably eat at the house five times and maybe eat in the wood well in the desert three three out of the eight, somewhere around there. Then go back to glassing. Sheep is it's not for everyone. Like when I first started, I was like, this is boring. Like I thought it's boring. I mean, now I love glassing. I guess I have to, yeah. Yeah, I guess I have to. And well, the other thing is in the afternoon, the afternoons are pretty short. And even if you if you see a good RAM, the odds of you being able to pull it that afternoon are not good. But at least you know where to look at next morning, you know, and and the odds of if you find a good one in an afternoon, the odds of finding him eventually the next morning are pretty good, you know. It might take you a couple hours, but he's somewhere around there, you know. He's normally not gonna go three ranges over there, right?
SPEAKER_01What about as far as when you guys are successful and the whole bringing the trophy back aspect?
SPEAKER_00Okay, for sheep. Um, well, once we kill, we normally we we skin up there, like we take the full hive or half hive, whatever, if they want a full mount or no. Uh, we'll split the meat between several of us to bring it down. Um, then we'll field care of the trophy. And then for the sheep, uh, since it needs a side is the hunter cannot take it back himself.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh we need to do a lot of paperwork before before it can be exported. Um, that includes, I mean, Mexican side, international side with the side is they need to plug the horn, etc. So it normally takes us between three, four months uh to be able to to export the sheep.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. For the meal deer, uh, we have the option to export it if you don't want to take the hassle of taking across the border. If not, we can do all the paperwork to cross the border and you can cross it yourself. Um, the thing with with that is it can take you, I mean, fish and wildlife might be very busy, they might not be, but you never know. It could be 20 minutes, it could be two hours, you know. So some guys is like, you know what, just export it for me, and that's it. But for the mule deer and the coose, you you can and the javelina, blah blah, you can you can cross yourself, you know, with and we provide all the paperwork for that.
SPEAKER_01Have you ever had any issues as far as exporting uh trophies back to people?
SPEAKER_00We did have once, actually. Uh we had apparently I wasn't there, but apparently the fish and wildlife guy was not very nice. Um, and there was uh how do you call it? One thing we we had two different papers. One was with one wrench, the other one was the other one. The driver turned in the wrong one. Uh, the guy was not very nice, and he confiscated two both Mill Deer. Uh almost 198, and the other one was 189 broken, I think. So, well, we got a lawyer and we got them back, but but we had to get a lawyer, pay a lawyer, yeah. But I mean, at the end we got them back. I do not recall if it was five, six months, something like that. Between the well, with a lawyer here and there, and fish and wildlife ended up giving them back to well to the hunters, but we we helped out with everything. Oh, yeah, that's the only issue we've had. And that was well, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say, real quick, back to the genetics question. I know Sonora and Baja are kind of two big areas for the big desert bighorns. Is is there much difference between them for genetics, or or is it like they're kind of they're actually a different subspecies?
SPEAKER_00Uh the Baja one is a wemesi. Um, they uh I mean if you look at them, you will know there's a difference because the Baja one has lighter horns normally, they're a little they're more yellowish, and the Sonora one is usually dark, okay. Um well, and overall the Baja depends the area. Some of them are tight curled in in an area and some aren't. Uh but I'd say the the the color in the horns would be the biggest uh differentiator.
SPEAKER_01Okay. How does the tags and permits work for when guys come down?
SPEAKER_00Well, like I mentioned before, the the difference between the US and Mexico is that everything here is private land at the end. So all the tags are private tags, private land tax at the end of the day. Uh, I know you guys have those as well, obviously, but but it's the minority, right? I'm guessing. And here literally it's just either you own the property or you don't have a tag, literally. And tax are allocated um for mule deer, which I mentioned before, I don't love it. I think they should put more attention and and give the tax out in a better manner. Because here they pretty much give them, they'll give you a mule deer tax for every 2500 acres. Some yeah, and some ranches you can do that, some you can't, you know, in my opinion. I mean, some ranches you can't produce a big uh big uh mulley every 2500 acres. Some there's just no way. Um, in the other aspect, the sheep, the sheep is very, very well done. Uh, there's a helicopter survey every three years. Okay, so they will fly over every single property in Sonora with a biologist up there and just literally counting every single sheep, every female, every ram, what class of ram it is. And once they do that, they'll sit down and they'll allocate the tags depending on that survey. Okay, and those tags will be like they allocate for the next three years, and then they re-fly in the third year and move around if they have to, you know. I mean, well, this ranch used to get two, now it's gonna get one, then the next year two, then one. I mean, or if there's more, that we're gonna give them two, then three, then two. But they it it it's it's incredible. I mean, they do a great job at it, you know. Yeah, and that's why we have the great population of sheep, and I mean it's just being managed very well.
SPEAKER_01Now, as far as like when do because I know up here it's different, like for mule deer, and I know sheep, especially too in the states, people have to draw or get certain amount of points or whatever. Is that the case down there, or is it just the tags are allocated by population, and then you can just come down?
SPEAKER_00Like I said, I mean there's X amount of private well, uh, landowner tags, and and you can do whatever you want with it pretty much. Oh, yeah, you can do whatever you want.
SPEAKER_01What should people know as far as working with local guides and ranchers when they come down there? Like if if there's nothing that like they don't have an idea of already question.
SPEAKER_00Well, I I'd say trust your guide. I mean, because sometimes as hunters, we think we know a lot, but at the end of the day, well, I say nobody's king in the foreign land land, you know. Uh and it's hunting anywhere is just different from what you're used to. You know, I I maybe it's hard to relate with hunting, but fishing, I mean, you can be awesome at fishing your river, they can take you across the state to another river, you're not gonna be catching much. And if you get a local guide, he'll have put you on the fish in an hour or change you different flies, or you know, I mean, it's just different for me, it's different everywhere. So you gotta trust your guide pretty much. I mean, you can always give your opinion, and this and that. We do listen always, you know. But at the end of the day, I mean, we have had an issue before. I mean, they say guiding the guide, you know. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, they happened to us, and it was a disaster. Um not good. But it's like you want it that way, okay. That's that's fine.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, oh yeah. I know because I've talked to um, I don't know if you know him, but Diego over at Yakut's hunts in the Yucatan that does the oscillated hunts.
SPEAKER_00Uh oscillated Turkey. Yeah, I don't know him, but uh I've been there, it's it's fun.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he I've had him on here before. He was telling me that the government down there in Mexico is kind of not anti-hunting, but kind of like just like it is what it is, kind of deal with the hunting. Like, what's your opinion on that as far as like how that goes?
SPEAKER_00Right now we're pretty good, but a couple years back they were trying to ban it, literally. Um, they're doing a lot because of political elections, this and that. So they always want to, you know, try to get more votes. And hunting in Mexico is not very popular, like in the US. Like, here it's not seen, it's not very well seen, let me put it that way. So they wanted more votes, and and they were not very far from it. I mean, they were it was bad. Uh we had to fight hard. Uh, they were also trying to ban all the seven mil calibers, um doing a lot of crap to make it harder for us, you know. But for now, like I said, we're good coming up the next elections. I don't know if we're gonna run into the same trouble. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure of one thing, it's not gonna get easier through the years, at least not here in Mexico, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But that's how I think it's gonna start turning up here as well.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you've seen but you guys have a lot more power against it, you know. I mean, there's too many of you here. We're not many at all, like Mexican hunters. Uh, you can not many, yeah.
SPEAKER_01What's the common misconception about hunting down in Sonora, whether it be safety or just any kind of misconceptions that people have?
SPEAKER_00Well, safety was not a misconception from 2020 to 2025. That was a reality, it was unsafe because there was a cartel war. I mean, that's just that's just it. Um, sadly, well, sadly, no. Happily, well, I'm very happy it ended, and now it's back to how it used to back in the day. There's no issue right now whatsoever. I mean, is it gonna last forever? Hopefully, but for now, there's no issue whatsoever. But I mean, the hunter community is small, uh, people talk, it was four years, many hunters had bad experiences. That's that's just the reality. And but like I said, um, April 2025, it ended. Okay, well, April, somewhere around there.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, because I mean, not that I fall victim to it here, but like a lot of people seeing the news, it's like, oh, Mexico's this, that, and the others. Like I mean, I was I'm talking to you now, and you you're saying it's nice and pleasant now. I mean, I've talked to you.
SPEAKER_00I mean, well, look what happened not too long ago. What was it Sunday when they they killed uh El Mayo? Picard the leader. I mean, that Sunday was a disaster, and I started getting texts from from hunters, this and that. I mean, past clients, common clients. And I'm like, well, it was Sunday, that's it. I mean, Monday there was nothing, Tuesday there's nothing. And right, and in this particular case, Sonora had nothing to do with nothing happened, not even Sunday in Sonora, you know. But I mean, news are big, and like I said, from 2020 to 2025, yeah. I mean, you could come across cartel, there's no doubt.
SPEAKER_01Have you ever came across cartel when you were out there uh guiding it all, or no, not really?
SPEAKER_00Not really. I mean, you've seen I've seen them, but that's it, you know. I mean, oh, they're they passing over there, this and that, that's about it.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, I was just wondering. Yeah, the um if you had to pick either Mule Deer or Bighorn, what would you rather pick to hunt or guide for the rest of your life if you had to choose? Mule deer.
SPEAKER_00Just mule deer. I mean, I mean, I like lasting a lot now compared to before, but I still but mule deer, it's just more action, you know? It's just more action, and I'm not the guy to be able to sit for hours just like that, you know. And mule deer, it's always fun. It's always I mean, sheep is incredible, but it's incredible when things are gonna happen, you know. The rest of the time, I mean it's fun to look glass them up and look at them, but but mule deer, it's I love mule deer hunting, like oh yeah, and it's a lot of things can happen fast. I mean, you never know when the monster is gonna show, and normally you're seeing deer, I mean, quite a few deer, you know, as well, so you don't get bored.
SPEAKER_01I mean, especially like you said, you get the the couple few monster deer that come through with as far as mule deer, and I even since I was a kid, I've heard like Mexico has always been like a big mute, like big mule deer down there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's big deer. I mean, no doubt. And it's fun. I mean, it's fun, always fun, always. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, I got one final question for you before we get ready to wrap up. And it's my favorite question that I ask all my guests when they're on. And it is what is your why that keeps you coming back for more? As far as hunting, guiding, what's the why that keeps bringing you back?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think there's a couple of them. Like one of them is that desert is amazing. Like that desert will just suck you in, and the silence in there is like minus 20 decibels. I don't know, like you even feel like weird with so much. Silence. The other why would be like the satisfaction you get when you get a hunter, I mean you make his dream come true, you know. I mean for a sheep it's it's a dream for most hunters, you know, 99% never get to do it, you know. Uh and it's just a lot of satisfaction to be able to help out, you know, and to help them out get that reward. And I think that's that's the main thing in in our in guru Twitters at the end of the day. Like our team is very small. We only have two teams of guys, like there's only two sheep teams. Um, well, for sheep there's two, for me, there's there's five, but it's it's integrated between the same two sheep teams. I mean, we're that that's it, and every single one of us just loves the same thing, you know, it's the same passion. So and I think that's what makes it great. Like our guides is like they they're not working, you know. That's what they rather do anything than rather than anything else, you know. I mean, Richard or Master Sheep Guide is like he can be hunting sheep 365 days and be the happiest man on earth, you know. So, yeah, but the biggest why is like making our clients dream country. And like I mentioned at the beginning, I thought it would be very hard for me since I never hunted and I was well, I never guided and I was always a hunter. Like, how would I feel, you know? But like I said, the first time it happened, I'm like, Well, this is even better, you know. So it's just it's a fun job. I mean, it can be tiring as every other job, you know, after 20 days out in the field for 30, but still, it's better than sitting in an office, you know.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Trust me, if I could if I could guide and do all that fun stuff instead of sitting in an office, I'd I would do it in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and eating with our chef all day. Uh the issues you get fat instead of and some people say, Oh, I'm not gonna lose weight, no, you're not gonna lose weight. Uh-huh. Not gonna have to.
SPEAKER_01You're hike, you're hiking up and down them hills and mountains, you might lose a little bit of weight, but not too much.
SPEAKER_00No, you're not.
SPEAKER_01Well, Mr. Rod, thank you for the time. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00You have you have any other uh final thoughts or uh shout-outs or if people ask you and have more questions, uh go ahead and let me know, and I can definitely answer answer them.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. Where can the uh people find you at to get a guided hunt with you down to Sonora?
SPEAKER_00Um the easiest thing probably it'd be Instagram, I'd say, which is guru guruutfitters. Instagram or info at gurufitters, that would be the email. But Instagram I check it quite often.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you again for your time tonight. I appreciate it. It was a fun time having you on. Um, I always extend the invite if you're ever, I mean, if you're ever up in the States and around the East Coast, around Delaware, Maryland, Jersey area, Philly, let me know. Would definitely love to meet up with you, and maybe if it's around season, we can get you on something.
SPEAKER_00That'd be fun. Oh, yeah. I definitely let you know if I'm over there.
SPEAKER_01Sounds good, man.
SPEAKER_00Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. Thank you again, Mr. Rod, and thank you all again for tuning in to another episode of the Blue Hen Outdoors Podcast.