From Corporate to Startup and Back Again: Reinventing Leadership at Every Stage

In this episode of Breakthrough Conversations with Rhoda & Co., Rhoda sits down with Aaron Adams, a seasoned leader in the startup technology space whose career spans corporate leadership, executive consulting, entrepreneurship, and high-growth startups.

Aaron shares:
 The key differences between corporate and startup leadership
 What consulting teaches you about influence
 Lessons learned from navigating multiple career pivots
 Advice for seasoned leaders feeling restless
 Guidance for emerging leaders building their foundation

With a background in Industrial-Organizational Psychology and certifications in SHRM and PROSCI change management, Aaron offers practical wisdom on leading through growth, ambiguity, and reinvention.

If you’re navigating career transitions, building leadership capacity, or wondering when it’s time to pivot, this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, what's your secret? You got the kind of that leads and speechless. It could be model multitasking genius.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Yeah, you got it uh Welcome to another episode of Breakthrough Conversations with Rhoda and Company. This is where we explore real stories behind real leaders and leadership that pivots the risks, the reinventions, and the breakthroughs. So today's guest, who I'm so honored to have, is someone many of you in the St. Louis OD Network and in the OD space within St. Louis and probably beyond already know and respect Aaron Adams. Welcome, Aaron. Aaron is a seasoned leader in the startup and technology space. His career spans corporate America, executive consulting, entrepreneurship, and high growth startups. He currently serves as the vice president of professional services at Lever Talent, where he leads teams that help organizations implement talent solutions and drive measurable business impact. So throughout his career, he has led professional services teams. He's built alignment strategies. He's advised organizations on engagement and change. And Aaron has built a career at the intersection of strategy, people, and growth. He also holds a BA in psychology from Michigan State, a master's in industrial organizational psychology from Wayne State. He is Sherm, CP certified, and pro size certified in change management. And beyond his professional work, he also plays a leadership role in the St. Louis OD Network, which is where I've come to know Aaron and been working side by side with him in the mentor program originally and now on the executive committee for the OD Network. And most recently, Aaron, you transitioned to overseeing the programs committee from the mentoring committee. He's done a lot of great work and bringing a lot of structure and depth to that mentor program. But today isn't just about titles, it's about the journey. And when Erin and I were chit-chatting a few weeks now, as the weeks go by so fast, um I said, I would love to talk to him more about his career and his journey. And he takes risks and he can pivot, and he's learned a lot of leadership lessons along the way. And I thought that our listening audience could benefit from hearing from a voice of Aaron. So Aaron, welcome to Breakthrough Conversations.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yeah, thanks for having me, Renna. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Yeah, so you started with a background in qualitative research, data analysis, organizational benchmarking. What originally drew you in that direction?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Jeez, how big of an origin story do we want? That's a great question. When we it's never linear, right? When we think about the paths we take. I initially, coming out of my undergrad, was going into grad school to be a clinical psychologist. I'm gonna do this. Spent some time doing organizational research and twin studies, and I had some conversations with practitioners. I said, you know, what's this look like? And what I got a sense of was I was gonna be a mechanic for people. And I think with that, you know, like we always joke about mechanics, right? Like once you're taking the car into the shop once, it's like forever and never ending cycle. And it just didn't sound that attractive. And so I had to like reverse engineer it in my mind. I was like, okay, well, what do I like? I was like, I like psychology. What do I know? I know work, I've been working since I was like 14. What's the intersection? And coming out of Michigan State, they had a really good I.O. program and I ended up going to Wayne State for a master's because I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna do this very applied route, you know, I know work and I know psychology. So it was this intersection that brought me to it. And then in that, you know, it was that blend of like people, analytics, systems. Uh so that was that's what brought me to it. And then my first role coming out of grad school was working for right management, and I had really seasoned practitioners in there, right? Kind of brought me there. It wasn't my intent initially, but a learning along the way. I was like, I don't, I'm gonna steer this car a little bit right here because I I don't know if the the path I was originally thinking was the was the one that was gonna take me where I wanted to be.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

Yeah, so it sounds like you had that passion though, you were able to identify a path that still allowed you to leverage your passion and merge it in some other areas more. The human aspect is always gonna play a factor. You always gonna have to study us and work with us and understand how to work with people and meet them where they are and get things done. But to your point, the systems, it was at the intersection that attracted you.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, I like your passion comment. That is something I'm not short of, is passion. So I would say that definitely played a role in that.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Right. So when you think back to your early leadership experiences, what shaped your leadership identity the most? And I guess I should also ask, what is how do you define your leadership identity?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah, I think what shaped it in the beginning, it was really observing what other leaders did. So the very first role that I had, I probably didn't appreciate the richness of thing that was probably happening at that moment because I worked at Wright Management and we were really focused on executive assessment centers. Oh, so there were executives, and these were like immersive, like two to three-day simulations that people would come into and they would play the role of the executive in the office. And working in that, there were just a large number of executives coming in and executive consultants that were in that twilight of their career, had all the knowledge. So I really was just watching and observing. I had one project where I really had to look at the system that we were running, like get an understanding of all the work by talking to all the consultants, right? And just seeing the behaviors and the routines and the way that they looked at data and the way that they made decisions and they incorporated the different aspects from the individual assessment to how they showed up in a simulation and made decisions around that, and then even seeing how the participants went through it. Really, I just got to see a lot. So I had I had an idea of what it looked like. Right. And then as I've gone through my career, I think that's how we learn a lot. Is like we see leaders show up a certain way. Right. And I for me, how that's shaped my identity is I've tried to over the years really just become more intentional around what I do. Yes. And we're not gonna be right, right. But if we can be more intentional about the way we want to show up and learn and reflect and iterate, so give myself some grace and try to be more intentional about the way we show up and communicate and take more responsibility for that and not say, hey, this is outside of my control, really just internalize the control and make hey, you can control this, right? Take responsibility for it. I think that's really been my identity because I've learned a lot uh along the way. Right. Good and bad lessons that have kind of formed me and moved me in there.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

And to your point, something you said when you said intentional, I wrote that down because that's one of my favorite words. Um it made me reflect on the fact that while when we first start out in our careers and especially in leadership roles, our early leadership roles, we are often not the same leader that we were in the beginning. To the point you just made, we've evolved and we learn over time, you must be intentional. We weren't thinking like that then. And even observing leaders back then, we didn't really know what was good behavior or leadership practice versus not either. We were just taking it all in. You learn that over time through trial and error. So, to your point, I've made some mistakes. There's some people that worked for me. I want to apologize to them. That worked for me early when I stepped into leadership. I was never intentionally mean because that's just not who I am. But I've made I made a lot of mistakes. So um, but I learned from them. And I've I've learned to be intentional about how I want to others to experience me and what I want to get out of the people and what I see in them and how I can help them reach their full potential.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Yeah. Yeah. And what I like about what you shared there is it goes to that other piece around grace.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

That was one of the biggest lessons I learned over time. It's like extending grace to others, but also to ourselves. And it's like, because we are learning, we're gonna fail. And that was probably some of the best feedback I had from a very talented leader who I knew for some time. They were like, Oh, what's one thing you could do? And they're like, Oh, I wish I could lead with grace. That's very powerful. And as I get older, I the appreciation for that statement deepens.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Yes, a lot further. That's so true. So, Aaron, did you always see yourself in start-up environments or did that evolve over time as well?

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Let's just say fit. I think you know, the more we keep getting data from the world, right? And it kind of sends a message to us, where do I fit? Um, or where do I want to be? And I think I just I didn't really know startups in the beginning part of my career. I think my career as an I.O. at the time when I was going into it, there weren't like a a lot of startups. Like that wasn't the buzz. I mean, nowadays they're they're all over the place. Um, and it's great, you know, when we think about the way startups can emerge. It's fit though. Like I got enough signals from the environment. When we think about those corporate environments, that's there's a certain people or person who's gonna fit really well, and they're just gonna feel at home and they're gonna be successful and they're gonna feel like this is my calling. And then the startups, there's a whole that's a whole nother piece. And I never saw myself there because I didn't know what it was, but once I experienced it and I felt it, it it sent the signal back like, hey, you're probably in the right place, right? At least right now, right? Where we're at.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

So that's a good point for people who may be listening and who may be like early in their career or even mid or season. It's listening to the inner voice that lets you know if this is a good fit or not. And so, therefore, if you're listening, then you can be in alignment with what resonates with you and your purpose versus ignoring it and trying to fit yourself in an environment that really doesn't fit, and then you're out of alignment. That's a good point to pay attention to that. Yeah. Absolutely. So, what are the biggest leadership differences uh between corporate environments and startups where you notice and pay attention to is this to fit this? I feel more at home in a startup than I do in a corporate setting.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

Yeah. I I think in the corporate setting, there's a lot of processes and practices they've already adopted that have made them great, right? Has made the organization thrive, has created some competitive advantage that they've leaned into. And so there's a lot of systems that are are working well. Right. And I and in there, so if the systems are already good, you're not necessarily coming in there to create a system. Right. You might just be running, fine-tuning, helping to think about, well, what this maybe we need to change this as we look forward, which puts more emphasis on what are the relationship dynamics that are happening inside of the organization. And I think a lot of people they'll say, like, and they call it it's like a bad word sometimes. Like, oh, they're politically savvy. Well, I think being politically savvy in a larger organization isn't that is an important, uh-huh, you know, important competency or capability when we think of the way we show up. So I think that is one distinct difference. Like it is you're managing stakeholders, but you're also being cognizant of the needs. And so the group, the the stakeholder management and the way you navigate that from a political aspect in terms of making sure everybody's incorporated as you're navigating through the nuances of the organization, it adds a layer of complexity that is part of getting the work done, but really separate from the work, right? So you're like a kind of removed in a step, at least as you get in the management. At least I that's what I observed. And then in startups, it flips, right? You still have the responsibilities for management, but you're very close to the work. You're doing the work that keeps the doors open.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

You're doing the work that is touching the PL. You're doing the work that is revenue, like you're only a phone call away from a pipeline conversation or a revenue conversation. So you feel the you you feel the impact of your decisions very quickly. And so I think that's why they're it feels a little bit more chaotic because the signals, you're so close to it. I see. Yeah. So I think that's the that's the difference in terms of like what I think thrive. You could thrive in a corporate environment. Right. That that relationship management, political savviness, whereas in a startup environment, it is like you have so many signals coming in, you really got to know what is the critical move that keeps the doors open or really gets that business moving uh and doesn't, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Wow. That it sounds a little bit more high stakes, yeah, in the startup. And some people thrive, i.e. you, in that type of environment. Yeah, that's interesting. I never thought about it like that. What did consulting though teach you? How did it prepare you? I think it might have had some influence on how you settle in and which one is a good fit for you, corporate versus startup. What did consult? How did consulting prepare you for being successful in this type of environment?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Oh man, so many ways. One, I was just the the consultants I got to work next to. One of the consultants I worked with early days is still my mentor today. Right. And I mean that, yeah, just seeing the other consultants, understanding how they got to where they're at. Because again, they were like, you know, multiple, like very talented consultants that I worked with spent years internally, and they were on that back half of their career where they said, you know, I'm just gonna consult. And right management, by the way, is that's the talent management wing to manpower, which the size and the scope. So consultant taught me a lot because I could see the behaviors and the approaches and the practices that were almost best in class in a lot of ways. It also had me create an unrealistic expectation for other organizations I worked with thereafter. So I saw this mold and we saw executives coming in. I thought this was the norm. Right. This is the this is the norm. Everybody should be showing up like this. And by no means were all the consultants perfect. But I think what they were displaying and showing in those executives coming in, uh it was a it was a select sample that probably didn't represent the the whole population of the workforce out there. Right. Uh so in a good way I could see the behaviors and things to to aspire to. And on the bad side, I probably held people very early in my career to an expectation that was not fair. Right, right. I think that was um that was where it brought me. And then just always keeping in mind, like as a consultant, they always, you know, it's that cliche, like it depends. Well, why does it depend? It depends because we there's a lot of practices in consulting where everything is data, we're questioning our assumptions, we're rethinking things, like what's the context? Because as consultants, we bop around to different projects and different clients. So we there is no one best way necessarily because it depends on the organization we're consulting with. And so that humbles you too, because even if you have a really good practice, you still need to be able to adjust the context of the situation to be able to have the best solution for the clients for that project you're working on.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

So true. So true. So, what's one more lesson you learned that shaped how you lead today?

SPEAKER_01 16:41

When you think you have all the answers, that's when you're probably wrong. I think that's the you know, the times where I've been really confident almost overly confident that I had the right answers were the times where I was like, yeah, yeah, did I? And I think that's where that's really shaped me because there's so much context that comes into play. And we're seeing that now with AI, like the context is your capital, right? With when we think about what is making these systems strong, when they have more context, I think that's no different than the world we work in. Things are not linear, right? Things are not this or that. There is so much richness to it. So if you're assuming you already have the answer, you really have to ask yourself, do you have all the context to be confident on that answer that solution? Uh and the times where I've been like really, really confident, or the times where I should have probably asked a bit more questions in there.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Right. That's a great one. That's a great one. Yeah, because I think a lot of people who are in leadership positions fall into that trap to think they have to have all the answers, and then that the answers have to come from them, and it's often not the truth. No, you just don't have to know, you have to know what questions to ask.

unknown 18:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

The questions are the answer.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Yes, yes. So many um many leaders struggle with knowing when to stay and when to pivot. How have you made those decisions?

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Well, I probably stayed too long sometimes. Then I realized that then it's time to pivot later. Um and I think that's what it is. In the beginning, that's what it is. I think we learn through a lot of the failures, and when we stay in things too long, feel back to that fit. It's like, how'd you know like it's fit? Because you you're getting these signals.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

You do.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

And if we're we can convince ourselves of pretty much anything. So when we're being very honest with ourselves and we're centered, and we're you know, we we're just in a comfortable spot and we're listening to the uh to the situation and all the signals that are coming in. I think we can make better choices. And I've only known when to pivot after being in times where I should have pivoted, right? And I and just learned and said, hey, that's the signal. You do you feel that? Yeah, you stayed too long.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Hey, just just remember that, don't force that, but be be honest to you know, some of those more intuitive hunches that we get. Uh it's not that intuition should guide all decisions, but intuition in itself is a signal that we need to appreciate. I think that's one of the things that um staying too long has taught me to to pivot at other times in there.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Yes. I've had that scenario recently in the situation. I saw the signals a year and a half before it got to that point, and I I just got too comfortable. Um so yeah, that is so true, paying attention to those. So, what advice would you give Aaron to a seasoned leader who may be feeling restless?

SPEAKER_01 19:55

Yeah, I mean, so it's first I'd start with a question like why? Like be honest with yourself. Like, why are you feeling restless? Right. And use some of those things that we know as consultants or as practitioners, we like to challenge other people. Ask yourself five whys, like take it deep. You know, take take it on and be honest. I mean, I think that the introspection, and you know, if you have people close to you who know you really well, have conversations with them too. People that can give you some more objectivity, you know, get just outside of your own head. Why are you feeling restless? What's the what's the context? What's the reason? And I think that's what it starts with. Like get an understanding of what's going on. Is it a dynamic or a relationship you know within the workplace or within your life that's making you restless, and not so much of like getting ready to switch jobs. I think some people don't look at the system and they make a decision and then come to and they reflect laying like, oh, it's probably maybe not the right driving force. So I think we really have to take an honest look, and that creates space, right? You got to create space if you're restless. Find find some space, take some time, find a way to look on the outside in, and also a little N-word too. Yeah, that's so true.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

What's a leadership practice you believe more leaders should adopt, or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

I think my default uh answer is always like empathy. I think we need to have more empathy, but but I I think empathy is hard. I think to really empathize with the intricacies and the complexity of like a an experience that somebody's had that really formed them, that is can be a traumatic experience, potentially is tough. And so I think compassion. I think being a compassionate leader and really caring and wanting to help, I think that's the one where I just don't I don't think it's gonna lead you astray as a leader. Have more compassion, is that gonna be a bad thing? I'm not saying be more compassionate in all your decisions, I'm just saying have more compassionate for the people that you serve. Right. And I think that service mentality as leaders they they do right. They make decisions in service of the organization, and the organization is a group of people. Right. And they need to have more compassion for the people that they serve.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Right. Yeah, I agree with you. You can't go wrong with have having compassion be a part of your natural leadership style. Doesn't mean that you're gonna uh not hold people accountable, it doesn't mean that you're going to allow it to influence or decide every decision for you, but to the point you made, having that compassion, I I call it human-centric leadership, um, it can go a long way. People will want to follow you, they will because they see that you have that compassion. And also it kind of creates this environment and culture of safety and trust. And so when people are in an environment where they feel safe, they can perform at the top of their game. They're not afraid to fail, they're not afraid to make mistakes. Uh, yeah, it's a win-win. That's a great thing for leaders to adopt. Thank you for sharing it.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

I love that safety comment.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

Yeah. So we're gonna transition to rapid fire round, and I'm gonna ask these questions. I just want you to hear what's your initial thought. And one is corporate scale or startup speed.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Startup speed.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Startup speed, because that's that's that's where you feel your match. Um, and then the one leadership skill that would never go out of style.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Strategic thinking.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yes, so true. If you could give your 25-year-old self one piece of advice, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Be consistent.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Be consistent, and a book that shaped your leadership thinking.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

You know, it's not a leadership book, uh, but I think of process consultation in Viagra Shine, right? Okay, I think of that, yeah, just because the the principles are straightforward. Right. It's very pragmatic.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Awesome. Well, Aaron, thank you so much for sharing and uh with me and your and my listening audience about your journey. I think you're very inspirational, and I love your risk taking. Like, like I've known you probably now for 10 years, and I've seen you pivot a few times in and out of roles. And I love the way you think and the questioning of your personality. You're always questioning what's next, how should we do this? What should we be focused on? All things that I've learned from observing you. So thank you for reminding us that leadership isn't linear, it's layered. And your journey shows us that growth requires courage, that pivots aren't failures, they're refinements, and that leadership isn't about the title you hold, but the impact you create in every season. So, to our listeners, whether you're in corporate America, whether you're building something from scratch, consulting independently, or quietly wondering if it's time for you to move on to something new. Let this episode remind you that your reinvention is not a risk, it's a leadership skill. Until next time, this is Rhoda reminding you that your breakthrough begins with the courage to grow. Thank you for listening.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Hey, what's your secret? You got the kind of other leads with speechless. It could be model multitasking genius.