From Customer Support to Director: The Leadership Mindset That Drives Results

Whitney Howard shares how she rose from customer support to director level by shifting from doing the work to owning outcomes. This conversation focuses on leadership mindset, operational clarity, and driving real results.

Key Takeaways
 Leadership starts with how you think, not your title
 Doing tasks is not the same as driving outcomes
 Hidden gaps in systems cost time and money
 Strong leaders see and fix problems early

Action Steps
 Own one outcome in your current role
 Identify one breakdown in a process you touch
 Start thinking beyond your job to the business result

⚡ Rapid Fire
 Leadership word: Ownership
 Common mistake: Task focus
 Key habit: Think beyond your role

 Connect with Whitney
https://stan.store/TheBenjaminEffect
@_thebenjamineffect

Your breakthrough begins with a shift.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, what's your secret? You got the kind of that leads to it, speechless. It could be model, multitasking genius.

SPEAKER_02 0:06

Yeah, you got it uh Welcome to Breakthrough Conversations with Rhoda and Company. Today's conversation is about leadership. Not the title, the mindset. I'm joined by Whitney Howard, founder of the Benjamin Effect Revenue and Operations Strategist and Speaker. Whitney traveled all the way from Florida to be here in St. Louis, her her original hometown. I'm so excited. And Whitney started her career in customer support. Early in her journey, she learned something most people miss. Doing the work is not the same as owning the outcome. She rose quickly to a director-level role, leading operations tied to a multi-billion dollar book of business. Along the way, she recovered millions and lost revenue and built systems that actually work. What stands out most about Whitney is not what she does, it's how she thinks. And such at such a young age, too. She's written books and all kinds of things at a very young age. She helps leaders and founders see what is quietly costing them, align their operations, and build businesses that scale. So today, we're going to talk about the mindset shift that took her from entry level to executive and what leaders must do differently if they want real results. Whitney, welcome to Breakthrough Conversation. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad you're here. I appreciate it. So I wanted to start with this question. You started in customer support. I started in, I started as a cashier, but early in my career, I was in customer service as well in a hospital system. But you started in customer support and moved quickly to a director level. What did you see or do differently early on?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah, I think early on, I automatically knew going in it wasn't my ceiling. Like I was grateful to be in the room and everything, but I knew this wasn't my ceiling. I was in college when I first started. So knowing that made me move differently coming in. I'm observing, I'm understanding why things are happening. Everyone's trying to get everyone off the call when they're talking to customer support. I'm like, why are they calling in the first place? Are we noticing a trend? I'm already trying to like look for my next thing. And so I think having that ambition early in any role that I do, it just led me to look for problems that I can solve early on.

SPEAKER_02 2:34

That's amazing. So at that early young age in your career, you not only had the ambition, but you were curious. Yes. So you asked a lot of questions. That is uh not something that is just given. Like this is a gift that you have, uh, like an old soul. A lot of wisdom comes with that. Going into a role knowing that that's not your ceiling. Yeah. Most young people are grateful to have the job, going to put their head down. And yes, you must have ambition, but it sounds like you had something even greater than ambition. I think it was sprinkled with curiosity and understanding that I can do more, and not only can I do more, I will do more. I love that. So when did you realize doing your job well, it wasn't enough to grow?

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Early on as well. So before I was hired on, I was a contractor as a customer support agent. And then I got hired on to simply open tickets for this technical group. And so I was just opening tickets and signing out all day. It was the simplest thing, but it was easy to do. So I would look at their tickets, how they're closing it, trying to understand it, all of that. And I'm seeing them be these amazing doers. They're doing their job well. There's like a thousand ticket backlog, they're having issues with that. And so I'm like, hey, I can help. You know, I'm putting myself out there, and I remember the leader being like, No, you have to have a degree. And I was still in college. And I'm like, I literally see how to handle this ticket, I can help. But that was my first lesson, and I learned that so early because they were like, hey, here's something that you can do in the meantime for like a stretch opportunity. You can go for your lean Six Sigma yellow belt.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

And so I did that, and then I realized the whole time it's not that I'm just not asking the right way. Right. So I turned my first Green Belt project into my promotion. Little did they know. So I'm like, okay, you guys have a thousand ticket backlog. I don't have a degree yet. If you had a junior analyst who can handle these simple tickets, and then you have the other analysts handle the heavier tickets, we can clear it up. I can get 10 tickets done while they're doing this one ticket. I did a whole project on it. It got approved. I got my promotion. So I learned early, and then it's always a win for me that story, because still to this day, I was the first junior analyst from that project that I did, and now they have like 15 plus people as junior analysts and the other. You built the whole thing. Yes. And that was so early. It just and I so it just taught me early to realize like if you just sit there and do your job well, I can be, I would still be a grand ticket opener right now. So I just took the initiative. I learned how the business needed to be hit to say needed to be said, and then I took out from there.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

The other thing I heard you say, and I teach younger people this that contact me for mentoring and coaching, career coaching, is don't wait till you get to to the next role or the next level or the promotion. Grow in the role. Yes. So that when that opportunity presents itself, you have something to sell. You can show I've done A, B, and Z, B, and C, and I've grown, and I developed this and I led this, etc. Because you had that foresight, you created the role. And then to this day, those roles still exist. That's amazing. So it's no wonder you've helped uh companies' operations identify lost revenue and multi-billion dollar books of business. What was the first moment you started thinking like an owner instead of an employee?

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Um, I think that was a part of it where I realized the business language and what they needed to hear from an employee perspective. I'm just like, this is what I want. And then I'm like, wait, okay, this is what they need. So from an owner perspective, come there's a problem, come with a solution, own the result of that solution. So it becomes bigger. That was part of it. And then something that I learned actually later in my career that really had me become an owner was being more authentic to myself. I think when I first entered, I mimicked what I saw, and I didn't see a lot of me. And so I realized I was becoming more like I was almost robotic in a sense.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Becoming more homogenized. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

And I'm like, okay, I had got under one leader who literally was like, loosen up. Um, and being under her and just seeing how like comfortable she wanted me to be, and how I became so much smarter. I became so much open in how I spoke. I became the person that spoke up in the room a lot more, and my career started to take off. So I think being an owner from a solution perspective is good, but like showing up as your authentic self, uh, the weight that it lifts off of you, the freedom that it gives you to say, be comfortable saying what you feel or what you want to do is just night and day.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

I am so grateful that whoever that leader was that triggered you to be you by saying something as simple as loosen up. Yes. I'm so grateful for that because one of my pet peeves is that we show up as most of us, as what we think we should look like in corporate America or in life. And when we do that, we are depriving ourselves and the world of the gift of view. Absolutely. So I'm so glad that you remove that and you show up as your authentic self and you saw that yourself is the bomb.com and it is enough. It is enough and it has gotten you this far. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Not only is it like not a lot, it's just more than enough, it's like you're allowed, but you're also a necessity in the room. And I realized that before I'm just like, well, this is so great. I'm here, I'm with the big league. No, you are needed. Like your diversity of thought, your empathy, you're like it's a necessity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

That's oh I love it. So you talk about fixing what it's quietly costing businesses. How did you develop that lens?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

I think it's because of how I started, honestly. When you're in customer support, you get to understand what's happening on the front line. I did technical support, I got to understand what's happening within the systems for a customer. I did uh I was on a contract team, I got to understand what's happening from a revenue perspective. I did sales support, I got to understand what's happening before a sale and after a sale. So I, my whole career was me supporting in all these different ways. So by the time I became a leader, I got to tie all that together, see bigger picture, understand um what's really needed, not just for maybe my team, but from a business as a whole. And having that bigger picture mindset is critical. Because certain leaders or certain people are so focused on their one piece of the puzzle and seeing it bigger, you can develop a lens that like helps the organization as all.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

Yes, I love it. And something that's coming to me right now, I I know you have the name of your business, the Benjamin effect. Um, it's Mindset Institute. Like that's speaking to me. So I don't know if that's a book or a business or something. I like it. You're oozing it. Yes. Because it's all about mindset. Everything you said going into your first job, you was like, I knew this wasn't my ceiling. Growing so that you could create opportunities for yourself. You was like, what can I do to prove, put this business case together? It's all mindset. So what do most leaders miss when it comes to operations and results?

SPEAKER_01 9:57

I think most leaders miss the fact that operations is a result. I feel I have a sweet spot for operations because I think we focus on the sale and the wins there, which is critical, right? That's how the business we get the money coming in. But we also miss that that sale that comes in might not be what's showing up on that invoice and what's coming out in the bank account. And the bridge between what was sold and what your the business is getting paid for is how it's operating. So I think it needs to be a little more respect for the operations side of the house and what they're doing in order to bring the business success. Um, from a leadership perspective, from a leadership perspective, even I think leaders don't really understand the impact in their roles in that wheelhouse that they're really bringing to the business. So I think the results within operations is a lot bigger than what people think.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

I think not only do leaders not understand their place in the the business outcomes and how they contribute to them, but their teams don't. The individual contributors don't. And when the leader don't and the team don't, they're not performing at their optimum level either. So that's really, really critical that the operations understand the role that they play in the outcomes of the business so that they could cascade that message and mission down to their teams.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

And when people are understanding what mission they're working towards, they really strive for it.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Exactly. They when they realize how critical they are, they show up differently. If you're like, oh, I'm the team that no one likes or this is an issue every time, they they show up differently.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Just like you said earlier, when you thought you had to be this formal stoic person, and when you released all of that and and just showed up as your authentic self, your performance elevates. Yes. So it works. It works. Yep, that is something. So what separates someone who executes tasks from someone who leads outcomes?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Yeah, I think someone who executes tasks, they're just doing what needs to be done. And leading the outcome is like owning what needs to be done. So uh today I came here and what I needed to do was show up on time. Right. I did the task. Leading the outcome is hopefully someone who listens to this, at least one person is feels impacted or motivated in some type of way from our conversation. So it's it becomes it goes from a task to an actual outcome. And if you show up and how you work or even in your personal life thinking with their mindset, uh whatever you're doing, what is the outcome of it? It changes everything.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

That is so true. I wish I could remember that when I'm eating ice cream. Like, Rhoda, that's the outcome of this. You're just gonna gain five more pounds. Yep. That is so true. Yes, it's all about mindset.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

It is, it is.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

So, how does your leadership mindset show up in how you make decisions today?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Oh, it shows up in every way, personally and professionally. I think the main thing is how future oriented I am now. There was seasons or certain roles where I was just focused on the present. Whatever I need to do today or for the week or for the quarter was it. And now I'm like very future oriented. So, what do I do today that will impact tomorrow? What is our team doing today that will impact tomorrow? What decision was made today that can have an impact for tomorrow? So I'm just from a leadership perspective, I'm very future oriented and it's just aligning with where I am in my personal life of just what's the impact? Yeah. Every decision that I make today is gonna be great in a year or two. Um, I'm also like getting out of the instant gratification stage where it's gonna take some time. You know, they say like, um, you're it's like the microwave or the crock pot. You know, so I'm like, okay, crock pot, let it slow cook, it's gonna be all right. Um so I'm planting seeds in that way. Where before I loved some instant gratification. So now I'm getting older, I'm maturing.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

You sound like you were born mature with these thought processes. That is so true. And again, social media, AI, all the things that the world is introduced is further perpetuating the microwave mindset. We want it instant, we want it quick. We have to be careful with AI too, because it can lead to us not being able to think on our own. Absolutely. You're relying on it to do all the thinking. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Not only that with AI, because it is such a popular topic right now, people don't realize the foundation still has to be right before you implement AI and all these automated systems. I have witnessed it, and you can scale chaos faster with AI. So if the foundation isn't right, you still don't have your processes and all of that, right? You're introducing AI and now you just scale the bigger problem that you're gonna have to put out. Yes, and it's gonna cost you even more money. Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

So and AI hallucinates. So it sounds confident, it makes you think it's done all its research, it tells you what you want to hear, yeah, all of that. And you you have to use your own mind and brain and thinking with it. Because even uh for this uh for our episode today, I asked it to put together the flyer and I forgot uh to upload. I had done it before and it had the picture of it was another uh guest that I was working on. It had the picture of the guests and and the picture of me side by side. And so then I uploaded that and I said, This name is wrong. I don't know where you got this from. I said, this person's name is X, Y, Z. Please correct it. It updated the image and it changed it like changed the image of the person, the guest.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Oh, yeah, yeah, because it does its own thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

I said, I did not ask you to do that. I want you to use the exact same picture that I you have to pay attention. And it was like, if I wouldn't have caught that, I was gonna send it to the guest. He was gonna be like, Who is this? Yeah. So that's just a very small example. But to your point, if you're not using your own human brain and critical thinking, you're just gonna scale chaos much more quicker. So you've recovered millions in revenue. What are the common breakdowns you see across organizations?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah. I feel like it's I kind of call it like the five-finger discount, you know, it's where businesses don't realize they're selling at a discount without even trying to. And it goes over kind of five things. So number one is billing and invoicing. So something goes wrong with what's sold versus what we're getting the money for. Between the sale and the invoice, something goes wrong. That's usually the biggest issue. Two is contract and delivery. So what is on a contract, we're not able to deliver. So now we are either having to over-execute something that we weren't supposed to be doing. It wasn't a part of the contract, or we're short billing the client. So making sure that what we're telling the client we can do, we can actually deliver that.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Um, three is processes. So, of course, internal processes, I think of the SOPs, the workflows, making sure all of that is down. When that is a mess, it's more of a personality than a process because it's being held together by people. And if they were to leave tomorrow, it's like, what are we gonna do? Four is revenue visibility. So this can go just leadership doesn't even understand what's happening on all these slow leaks turns into a tsunami. Right. Or there's a lack of KPIs, lack of reports, lack of something that can easily tell them that we're having a problem. So revenue visibility is super important. And then five, I call hero dependency. So that's basically where you have that one person who knows everything, one or two people, and then they, if they end up leaving, you find out that, like, oh, it's a lot of problems. You think the systems are great, everything's good. It was just those people holding it together. So that's kind of like the five-finger discount. If you look at that full scope, you'll realize it's revenue leaks everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Oh my God. Enterprise needs to hire you as a consultant. Enterprise is a St. Louis one. I think they're the only family-owned car rental left in the U.S. And their house here, corporate headquartered in St. Louis, trying to rent a car today. I actually went online last night, did a search at Avis. Avis system said we have no availability for you to pick up a car on this day, which was today. Okay, cool. Go on Enterprise, we have availability, the minivan you want, we have something like that. Okay. Send me a confirmation. I was scheduled to pick it up at 11. They called me at 1038 this morning to tell me we don't have any vans available. And he didn't even say it like that. He said, We 100% do not have anything available. And I was like, okay, so I wanted to ask them why is the system showing. Right. But I didn't. And so I got out the phone with him. So I called Enterprise, and then you get another center, like a call center. I don't even know if it's in the U.S. And that person said, Well, let me look in the system. Oh, I see at another location they do have something available at Chesterfield. Okay. You someone's gonna call you, and then you can go pick up. Nobody ever called. So I called back, got another rep. That rep said, Let me look. Oh, how does the Creed Core location work for you? Perfect, because I'm going to Creed Core for this today. I get my husband driving. We get on the highway, headed to Creed Core, get a call from the Creed Corps. We uh do not have any vehicles. He said, in fact, I have 14 customers that's trying to get a minivan that's ahead of you. And he said, and the only vehicle I have on the lot is uh something. And I say, I don't even know what that is, and I don't even know why you're telling me that. Because he said, and it's rented out, they're coming in five minutes. Well, why are you even sharing? Right. So then get off the phone here, I call again. I don't know why I'm keep trying. Right. I would have. They send me to Wintsville. So we turn around, get back on the highway, go to Wintsville, go in, I say, here's the confirmation number. Because you get an email and everything with the confirmation. He said, We don't have no cars. Not only do we not have minivan. He said, all the other locations have been calling us. We formed all our cars out. He said, I just don't want you to keep running around from store to store. There's nothing available. I say, so why don't your processes talk? Right. He said, we don't even interact with those people. Well, what's the that's a waste of money. Like, why y'all paying them enterprise? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Enterprise revenue is leaking across leakage. People, process, and technology.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Technology everywhere. So that's an example of when you when Whitney says leakage, that's an example. It's like flooding. We've been to almost three different locations.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

And as a customer, you were like overly trying to actually support the business. So that's even worse.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

It is, it is. So how do systems reflect leadership, either strong or weak?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah. I think systems are everything, and it reflects the type of leader you are and kind of what you value in a way. So, like, you know, if you want a team that's promotional, you want to be a leader that is able to help someone move on, you want to set them up for success. Do you have the processes in place? They're able to go here, they're able to do things on their own without needing you. Having those systems in place shows how strong of a leader you are, but also shows what you want in your people. You want to set them up to win.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

So it's really important. That's so true. Setting your people up to win. So, what is one leadership habit that creates measurable business results?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

I think documenting your wins is really critical. Um, I remember doing like an exercise years ago, and I took it because I learned about documenting my wins. And so I started practicing like what wins that I had outside of corporate, just personal. And I was I took it back to kindergarten. I was just documenting everything that I can think of that was a win, and I was trying to tie it into a measurable thing to show how it was, I mean a reward that I got. Why did I get that award in fifth grade? It was because of this, this, and that. Like I was doing all of that. Right. And so I think documenting your wins is really good for you telling your story because we get so in the habit of doing, especially as you know, new initiatives come, it's it can get overwhelming. So making sure to take the time to document that shows your value because you're doing things all the time that is valuable to the business. They don't know it.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

And so making sure to deliver that message for you and for your team is really important.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

That's a good one. That's a good best practice. So for someone who feels stuck in their role, what shift do they need to make uh to get to the next level?

SPEAKER_01 22:43

I say that start documenting those wins especially early on. Get in that habit. I think I'm going back to like pretty much what I did. Start being your authentic self a lot earlier. Go into every opportunity and room grateful but not grateful to the point that you think you just simply belong to be there. Like you you are needed there. Understand, learn and grow. Don't mimic don't mimic I did that so just take what you can learn from leaders. You can adapt it to yourself but you don't need to be them directly um and then show up as your higher self just like you would in the personal you're trying to personally grow when you go there show up to the next level that I want to be what would I do in order to have this job and start acting like that when you walk in doing it.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Yeah. That is so true. Words of wisdom yeah if someone wants to start thinking like a leader this week where should they start?

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Um owning the results so I think if you understand that a leader has a lot of responsibility under them they have to look out for the people that they're paving the way for they have people above them that they have to answer to so don't just come with problems. Start showing up with solutions because if you want to be a leader that's what you're going to have to do. You're solving every day above you below you beside you. You're solving everyone's problems and it can get overwhelming. So start practicing that if you want to show up as a leader.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

I have um established this reputation as a leader early in my career I had this big team we were leading an electronic health record training uh program and and the employees would come with me with all these great ideas and I would say I listen and I would ask questions and then I would say what support do you need from me to make that happen? Yes. Because they're going to own it because I wanted to give them the opportunity to grow and glow. And I uh my leadership style is very much similar to teaching someone how to ride a bike. Like you you're going to maybe get on it one time and show them but then you're going to take the handlebar and hold the tip of it take the back of the seat hold the tip of until they learn how to get their balance and grow and then they fall off and you're going to catch it you know that's how I like to lead so that when they have the confidence they can go off and ride exactly I love that. Yes. So what is one thing leaders should stop doing immediately I think hoarding visibility I think um when we talk about leadership there's a certain level of selfishness that can come with it.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

You are like I'm saying document your wins all of these things that you have to do for you in a way and the real point of leadership is leading people right like you can be an amazing individual contributor and continue to grow that way. But if you're going to be a leader the real wins the biggest win that you can document is how you develop your team how you help them with promotions how whether it's under you or not under you. So I think some leaders hoard visibilities for two reasons.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

One they're so focused on themselves that they forget about the people that they're leading and then two sometimes you get the amazing doers that make you great and you're like oh I don't want you to leave like I just need you to say so stop both of that stop hoarding visibility grow people develop people send them on their way document that as a win yes I love that because when you are in a leadership role it is no longer just about you you are really developing future leaders and your role is to get work done through others and help them to perform at their fullest highest potential and you know what if people aren't your passion you shouldn't be leading. Exactly because it really isn't about you. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

So I love that and there's some high performers that end up in leadership roles because they're so good at what they do but that doesn't always mean that they should be translated to leadership. It does not so what is one thing they should start doing that would change how they are seen a leader I think I feel like it's a lot of what I was saying earlier but start owning outcomes and thinking bigger picture um as a leader of your group you focus on that group it's very easy to do like and you become protective of your team and all of that but start thinking bigger picture especially if you're wanting to grow as a leader because the higher you go the bigger scope it is and then you're like okay this this group affects this group. I remember having I ended up having like three subteams under me and it's like okay this works for this one but it doesn't work for that one and now I gotta like put together this puzzle and think bigger and I'm like okay we gotta change it up. So just start thinking bigger picture.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

Right, right. I love that so not I'm gonna it's we moved to close I'm gonna move to the rap what I call rapid fire round. Okay. So I'm gonna throw you a question I only have three okay and it's I just want your first thought okay one word that defines great leadership um passion.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Passion that's what I said people aren't your passion shouldn't be leading one mistake leaders make too often I still say that hoarding visibility I've seen it a lot yeah hoarding visibility yeah yes and one habit that changed your career trajectory I think showing up as my authentic self being not afraid to speak up in the room and then learning the business lingo like I said that early on where I'm like hey I could do this no and then I came back and I was like hey this is how this will help you and they're like okay yeah so that helped a lot.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Whitney you are amazing. Like I'm so honored that you said yes to coming on to the podcast and that you traveled all the way back to St. Louis to do so in person. And how can people find you? What services do you offer?

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Okay yeah well first I just want to say thank you for this time you're amazing what you're doing and what you're gonna continue to do it's gonna be so great. So this is just a small I mean you've done so many amazing things. So we appreciate that and continue to do it and thank you for making room for voices for us. We appreciate it. For me you can find me um on social media I'm at underscore the Benjamin Effect so that's where I'm starting to help small business owners and founders just understand the enterprise world if they're wanting to scale or from a people professional standpoint if they're wanting to enter enterprise I just want to help bridge that gap I'm really into bridging gaps. It's been like my thing all my life and so me being in enterprise I just want to help founders and small businesses understand what they need to do. So you can find me there if you have any questions.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

I'm also on LinkedIn Whitney Howard soon to be Whitney Benjamin so yeah and that's where the name the Benjamin Effect comes in and congratulations Whitney thank you for getting married yes yep she has a fiance so congratulations thank you well Whitney this was such a powerful conversation what I appreciate about this conversation is the reminder that leadership is not about doing more yeah it's about thinking differently and seeing differently and taking ownership as you repeat it at a higher level you showed us that growth is not accidental it is truly intentional. I can hear that in everything you've done and for those listening if you feel stuck the question is not what more you need to do it is how you need to think Whitney um have shared with you where you can contact her the services that she offers you can find on LinkedIn as she said TikTok Instagram all the places and to our audience thank you for joining another episode of Breakthrough Conversations with Rhoda and Company Hey what's your secret you got the kind of I lead to it speeches it could be model multitasking you tell you got it off hey what's your story the kick is from the 40 under forty and talk about the same high glory I can do it off