57: Owning Your Nonlinear Career | Women and Work

You build a successful career, work with top executives, and then… take a pause.

For DeeDee Fisher, that pause wasn’t a setback—it was part of the story.

Now a consultant to C-suite leaders through her company Discover Response, DeeDee has spent over 30 years helping executives communicate more effectively. From developing curriculum for Fortune-level clients to leading in the nutraceutical industry and serving as Chief of Staff, her career has evolved across industries and roles.

But what makes her journey stand out? She openly highlights her four years as a stay-at-home parent on LinkedIn—challenging the idea that career breaks should be hidden.

This episode is a powerful reminder that success doesn’t have to follow a straight line.

How do you view career pauses or pivots in your own journey?

Struggling to find the right child care? Get a video interview of your ideal nanny at https://www.momsub.com/child-care-options

To learn how Compassion, Process, and Learning empowers individuals and teams to navigate challenges, check out https://discoverresponse.com/

#WomenAndWork #Leadership #CareerGrowth #WomenInBusiness #NonlinearCareer

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Men network with each other and women don't. Like we don't have fraternal orders. We don't have like we don't always continue playing sports. We don't, like whatever your activity was in high school or college, we don't always continue that, but men do. So they're still so used to just being around them that it's still a you have to be able to break into the networking part of it and somehow get them to see you as a contemporary. But I don't know. Like I know we are all like, let's get rid of it, let's make it go away. And maybe the better part is just to own that it exists. It exists, we're different, we're always gonna be different, and switch it to hey, not a glass ceiling, maybe it's, you know, a linear progression. Maybe it's like a rainbow or something, right? Maybe it's an arc, right? So we have to understand that it exists.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Welcome to Women and Work, the show where we take an inside look at how women are overcoming our own unique challenges as we grow our careers or build a business while nurturing relationships and family. My name is Diane Mocha, and I'm the founder of Mom Sub. That's the childcare app that connects you to a substitute mom. And I want you to know that work can fit your life. Each week we meet a woman who has done that. And today I'm with Dee Dee Fisher. She currently consults C-suite executives to improve their communication through her company, Discover Response. Dee Dee has been training leaders for more than three decades, starting in the 90s with developing curriculum for fortune-level clients, moving into a role as a sales director for a research center focused on nutritional supplements, and later becoming chief of staff for an advisory firm. And Dee Dee proudly displays in between those achievements her four years as a stay-at-home parent on her LinkedIn profile. Thanks for being here, Dee Dee. Thank you for having me, Diane. So great to be here. So I see you created a framework called CPL as part of your leadership training, compassion process learning that empowers women to collaborate more effectively. And that brings me to this question about society's image of women as competitive with each other. Do you think that that's been a hindrance to your advancement or to women's advancement in general? And what do you think has been the biggest challenge in your career specifically because you are a woman? Yeah, thanks for asking.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

I don't, for me, competitiveness with women, I haven't found that. I belong to a number of female organizations and I stayed networking in that like-minded group of individuals. And then when I'm working with people, they obviously have committed already to hiring me or being with me. So it's less competitive and it's more collaborative. And then I think, what was your second question? The challenge?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Yeah. What do you, you know, because you are a woman, so you've been in a lot of rooms that were dominated by men in C-suites, right? So there you were, the sole woman trying to tell a man, right, how to improve his leadership. And so do you think that being a woman presented a challenge? And what were those challenges and how did you overcome them?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yes, I do think that being a woman is a challenge in those rooms, 100%. And I think that trying to ignore that it's not a challenge doesn't work. I think we have to accept the fact that we are different than men, we speak different than men do, and men speak different than us. And so I always start with the first letter of my tool, which is compassion. And I just take compassion for myself and the men, because here we are in a mixed environment now, and we are doing our best to communicate a similar language, both coming from two different points of view.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Okay. And so what kind of obstacles did you confront when you, even though you were compassionate and understanding that men have different ways of communicating, um, but you may have been trying to help them adapt to all of the people on their team, including men and women. So, you know, what were some of those specific obstacles or situations where, you know, someone just didn't get it, or you realized you couldn't work with a person, or you were hitting a brick wall and people weren't really maybe giving you um the respect that you deserved because you were a woman.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

100%, yeah. So um the biggest one, I think the challenge for me was when I was in the nutraceutical industry, especially in the late 90s. Everybody, if you were a woman, was a spokesmodel. And I actually was, you know, I was on the manufacturing floor, I was creating products, I was making them, I was pitching them, and people were like, oh, so you're here to join a booth or where's your athletic outfit? What are you doing? Like those questions, because they thought that that's what I was there to do. And luckily, I teamed up with some really great men that gave me coaching. Look, it's powerful to be a woman in this industry doing something different than all the other women. And I was like, that is such a great way to think about it. So then I could just be me being in that industry, and also love the women that also supported me who were doing something different. It didn't have to be a competition when I started looking at it like, no, it's just different.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

And, you know, I remember a time when people were complaining, women were complaining, that they were getting called uh terms like booth babe, right? You know, oh, and here they were sometimes studying, being an expert on a particular subject matter, you know, not just standing there to look pretty, but to actually uh be a spokesperson that knew about the product? And what kinds of different experiences did you go through when you were doing some of that work and you were in these booths and and people perceived you that way? And even though you changed your framing, did that mean that others perceived you differently, or were you still um confronting people's preconceived notions and then just ignoring them or doing other things to try to let them understand that yes, um a woman in a booth who looks attractive is very intelligent and knows about the product as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Exactly. Well, I would just accept the fact that I knew that they were thinking that, right? Like that's part of being compassionate. Like, okay, I know this is happening, and I'm just gonna run a process and accept that I need to learn, and so do they, right? So running my tool. And I would be like, Look, I know it's very odd for a woman to be in a booth who actually is also the creator, designer, marketer, and founder of a company. And back in the 90s, it was. It was so exciting, you know, at Expo West in Anaheim two weeks ago to see how many women creators there are now and just owning their space, right? There's the girls in their 30s who are addressing menstrual cycles, there's the women in their 50s addressing menopause, and they're owning it in the space. And I think it is women like me who got in young and addressed the fact that we can be counterparts in this industry. It doesn't have to just be one way.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

So are we here? Have we arrived? Are are the the challenges and the barriers and the glass ceiling gone? Or what are some of those issues now so good to hear that you've seen the trajectory and the and the increase in women being involved? But what are the challenges that you still see and how can women who are listening address those?

SPEAKER_00 7:49

You know, um, if I can like pivot from different industries also, not just that industry. Of course. So the glass ceiling is still there. And I do believe a large part of it is the way men network with each other and women don't. Like we don't have fraternal orders, we don't have like we don't always continue playing sports. We don't, like whatever your activity was in high school or college, we don't always continue that, but men do. So they're still so used to just being around them that it's still a you have to be able to break into the networking part of it and somehow get them to see you as a contemporary. But I don't know, like I know we are all like, let's get rid of it, let's make it go away. And maybe the better part is just to own that it exists. It exists, we're different, we're always gonna be different, and switch it to, hey, not a glass ceiling, maybe it's, you know, a linear progression, maybe it's like a rainbow or something, right? Maybe it's an arc, right? That what we have to understand that it exists.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

And it doesn't mean it always will, but it certainly exists now. And how can we work within those parameters instead of fighting against it? When you fight against glass, it breaks. You know, how can we polish it so people can see what's on the other side and the beauty of the gem, right? That's there. You said something about networking that's very interesting, the way men network versus the way women network. And I often hear that women lose their hobbies and their interests, especially when kids come along, because that's their focus. And even women before they have children tend to have different interests than men, if we're generalizing, obviously. And there's a funny story. Uh, years ago, as a journalist, I wrote an article that kind of created a little uproar that I didn't expect because young women, I was young and single, and my young single women friends were complaining they weren't meeting guys before the days of apps, you know, dating apps. And so I said, well, you know, don't just go to the book club or, you know, or the, you know, the theater, you know, try a football game, you know, do things where you're gonna be outnumbered, you're gonna naturally meet more guys, right? And it's kind of fun. And people are like, oh, you're trying to tell women to forget their own hobbies and just adopt men's hobbies. No, be open-minded. You can do it all, you know, you can do both. And so, you know, there's this feeling of a woman told me that she was having a hard time building her financial services business, and that the men were meeting a lot of their clients and doing deals on the golf course. And she decided, I'm gonna try golf. Not only did she try it, she ended up loving it. She ended up being involved and joining a country club. And for the next like 20 years of her career, this is where she met her clients, this is where she met her friends. This was something she ended up loving doing. And she didn't say, no, that's a man's sport. She just said, I'm gonna try it. So, what do you think about this idea of opening ourselves up and and maybe doing some things that some women would say, you know, why are we acquiescing? Why can't we just be who we are and do what we want to do and for, you know, and they should come along?

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Well, I mean, I don't agree with fighting uphill. I just don't. Like, I agree about like living in the real life, right? So I agree that with your um idea. I love that she took up golf because it's not a guy's sport, right? Like they take golf. That's not a guy's sport, but deals get made on the golf course. They just do. Deals get made at drinks after hours, deals get made doing these things, and you can do them and be a woman doing them, right? And there's things you can say no to. No, I don't want to stay out till three o'clock in the morning. I'm, you know, I'm going out for dinner and drinks, and then I'm calling it done, right? No, nothing gets happy happens after midnight anyway, right? Like everyone's had one too many things nothing good. Nothing good. So you can just skip that part. And what about going to like say a pro basketball game or a call NCAA game with a group of women from work, with knowing that there's gonna be men there in the industry doing things? Like if the bank is supporting or you know, sponsoring a night, then go, right? Like if it's a financial industry, then you go. Look and see where things are happening that you can network. And if you don't want to go be one in a group of many, then take some girlfriends. Like I myself, I joined nonprofits that are women focused. And then when I want to go do things, I ask those friends to go with me because I know that they're also do they're also working, right? And I know that they're moms, and I know that we both have to manage the same thing. So whether it's you know, junior league of you know the United States or whatever it is, then you've met those people that are very much the similar mind of you.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

So I want to go back to the earlier version of D D, right? When you're growing up, you're going to college, you're deciding what you want to do. It looks like you started very early in your career training leaders, probably before you were even a leader yourself, right? So, how did that happen? Was that a vision that you had for yourself? Was that something that you happened into? And were there a lot of other women doing this because women are good communicators? Um, was that what drew you? And and that field was more in its infancy back then, right, than it is now.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

It was, it was. So I was a psych major in college, and then I quickly went to comms because I could see that I wanted more, more active life than being a therapist, and went to comms, loved it. And I was like, you know what, I don't like is how people communicate in business. I grew up in a family business. I would watch the men communicate the way they did. My parents owned a gas station. So I would watch men stating their POV. Why is this not done? Because it's not done. And there was never any dialogue happening. And so when I started interviewing for jobs, I was people would ask, they're like, Why do you want to be in the you know development and training arena? And I said, Because I can see that business communication needs to change. We're not always having a communication. My product's the best. Well, you you know, and you should buy it. Why? Well, because the one you have isn't great, right? That's not that's not a dialogue, right? Right. So people like just stating their POVs is not having a conversation. And so when I would interview, I'd be really honest with people, I would say, I want to change the way people communicate in the work environment. And I happened to team up with this amazing group of people in Arizona. Um, it was a company called Timax, and this gentleman had wrote a book, and he was really committed to the same thing. And you're right, there were no women presenters at that time in his company, and there was one other female salesperson and that went out and trained the executives to then train their people, you know, to run this program. Most of the women were executive assistants to the males trainers.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

So it was just and that was in the 90s, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

So uh so you had a very particular background that set you up for this. Did anyone in your family ever encourage or ask you to be in the family business? Was it something you considered?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

No, um, I considered it for a hot minute, but I you know, it's in the it's in the middle of nowhere, Idaho. And my grandmother sat me down at 18 and she's like, you have to go. She's like, You're not from here. There's some place in the world that's going to resonate better with you, and you need to go. And she's like, and I was like, but you're here. And she's like, but I'll always be here. You can come home, you can visit. And she's like, go find your people, go be you. You can't be here basically fighting against a grain that was so different from who I was. But being in that grain, you know, against that grain from zero to 18 gave me this tool of like very carefully listening to the fact that people were not having dialogues.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

I love that. That grandma sat you down and said you belong somewhere else. Bless grandma for that. Wow. Mentors, right? I mean, she was an early mentor, you probably didn't even realize. So you knew that there was something wrong with communication in business, and you had ideas about how to fix it. And even as a young person, you created curriculums and started training people. And so you had some movement in your career. I mean, you spent years at many of these places. But what caused you to move from one place to another? Because this is something that stymies a lot of women and people in general in the workplace. Like, should I stay, you know, I'm not unhappy, but maybe I'm not happy. I could get more money, but I don't know if the job market's good. You know, should I go to this unstable thing that's a startup or stay with this big company? You know, what were what were the priorities in your mind? And why did you make the decisions you did about your progression in your career?

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Yeah, sure. So I really think that women are gut decision makers. And I think that we can feel that gut, like I should do this. And then if we stop and run a linear progression on it and say, you know, I'm really feeling like I should do this, and it feels like the right thing. Let's now look at the numbers, right? So don't dishonor the gut feeling and then sit down and look at, you know, can I take care of myself? Can I take care of my family? Like what's gonna happen? And that's what I did when I shifted careers is this really feels like the thing to do. I really want to get into say the nutraceutical industry. I'd really like to train women on how they're thinking about their bodies and how they think about dieting and how they think about being, you know, an athlete. That feels in alignment with development and training. And you know, when I did that first project and I made that, you know, I was working for a company, but I developed a product on my own, and then I pitched it and sold it to general nutrition centers. When I pitched it in the 90s to Gail King and Oprah, Gail said, you know, we're never gonna do an adjustable. And I go, I know the liability's crazy. And she said, but the the program you wrote, it because it came in each bottle, she said, You're writing and what you're telling people to think is what matters.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

I always claim her as like one of the people who finally said to me, What you're thinking and what you're putting out there as a way of thinking and being for people is so important.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

That's very validating. I mean, to have someone at that level, you really had some great success early on. And what you said about your gut, I thought you were gonna say, go with your gut and don't worry about what the logic said. But you said listen to your gut and then validate it with the logic and run the numbers. So, did you have times when your gut told you to do something and the numbers didn't, and you didn't do it, and did you regret? You know, what what were some of those examples? Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Um, most of it was startup related, you know, where like I had a client when I was training and they became a pretty big supplier in the hardware industry of the computer is in the industry in the 90s, and they had wanted me to jump companies, but I was having such a good time doing DT that I was like, I don't want to jump. And nobody really knew what the computer industry was gonna be then, right? So I couldn't really even run any numbers. I could just say, like, it, you know, doing sales, selling hardware, like I don't know anything about that. So like that would be a regret, right? Or a missed opportunity, I like to call it, maybe not a regret, but because I still I evaluated it and then made a decision. But definitely a missed opportunity, maybe not a regret.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

And women tend to be a bit more risk-averse than men, so it it wasn't kind of a sure thing. And how did you position yourself to get to the point where Oprah and Gail were paying attention to your products? I mean, you know, that's something that very few people ever achieved. What was it that allowed that to happen? Was it serendipity or was it something that you had a vision that that was gonna happen?

SPEAKER_00 20:01

No, I was really, really ahead of the game on the the photoestrogen prior of, you know, nutraceutical supplements. And then I was lucky enough, not lucky enough, because I had met people in the industry and I knew who I wanted to partner with. And the partner wasn't general nutrition centers, the partner was a manufacturer who had a background in um pharmacy. Like he was a pharmacist and took over his father's business. And I wanted to partner with him because I wanted the product to have that kind of background and that kind of education behind it. Well, then he said, I think that you know, general nutrition centers will take this. And once you do that, what you commit to in advertising is giant, so that gives you the publicity. Right? I know a lot of people bootstrap things, but that wasn't, you know, I had done that and tried to, I was pitching it on my own. I made it on my own, I made samples. But when I tell myself I can have one conversation with a small person at one store to buy something, and that takes the same amount of energy as to have the conversation with a big manufacturer who can do a lot more for me. Right? So I looked at it that way, and that's how I got the break. But I started from who do I want to partner with? Why do I want to partner with them? And what advantage is there to like one track, one linear track, or another linear track? Because either one will work. I think one just gets you there faster, right? If you could ride a motorcycle instead of a bike, do that, right? And if you can drive a car or take a rocket, take the rocket, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:33

So right. So you were really focused on scaling and efficiency, yeah. Yeah, and that's what that's what the conversation is now with AI. And I, you know, I just went to an event that was talking about quantum, and you know, there's so many things where people say you can skip the steps in between, you know, you can leapfrog, right? And so you're doing all these things, you're having this amazing success in your career, right? You've got attention from Oprah and Gail, and then. Then you take your break. So you've got to share with us what kind of analysis did you go through? Was it very difficult, you know, to make that decision, to literally extricate yourself from your career and say, I'm gonna stay home. Did you quit? Did the job come to an end? Was this like right when you had your child? Take us back to that time in your thought process.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Sure, 100%. So Nutra-Sucal supplements, especially something that focuses on health or weight loss, has a life cycle of 18 months to two years. Because Americans, and this is just the way we are, we want the new best, greatest thing. So I did finish the product all the way to the end until we felt like sales had gotten to where they were gonna get it. Most products don't have a lifetime of like 10 years, right? I mean, yes, a pharmaceutical pill like Advil or Tylenol, yes, but not typically a diet product. Like, you know, even liquid IV or Celsius, you've seen their life change and evolve, even though everybody knows. Even though Zempic, huh? Zempic, all of it, copy, you know, she created it, she then sold it to Coke. It's something different, right? So it has a life cycle, shall we say? And I wrote the life cycle to the end. And then before the end, uh, professor at UVA at the Darton School of Business, we met, we're both from Idaho. He was very intrigued by the story, and talk, we talked about it, and he was writing a book about entrepreneurs, and he's like, Well, I want to write a case study on you and put it in the book. So at the same time, I'm pivoting, this opportunity comes up, and I take it as this is the next step. I can do this with him, I can stay at home and have a child and work on that, and then I can spin that into whatever's next. We I feel like sometimes women, because we're not risk takers, we want all the answers. And I think as long for me, as long as I can see something like a year or two out, then I feel like that's a I love calculated risk, like enough risk to get a big bump out of it, but not enough risk to like, you know, put myself in a situation that I don't want to be in having a child.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

And so at that point, you were married, you were trying to have a child. Was what did the child come because you're like, okay, this is the right time in my career, so now I'll try for a child?

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Yeah, it uh I was dating somebody and he proposed. And so that, you know, we were like, okay, and we were both older, so I was you know, 31 by then. So actually, we met when I was 31, and by the time we got engaged and married, I was 36. So, right, it's like so it the progress always just seemed to fit my function, and I just paid attention, and that's where I think women do not ignore your gut, right? Like, I always say, like, what is that? Like, right? I had this amazing conversation um at Junior League of Washington at a nonprofit event we were doing, and a woman was thinking about moving in with somebody who doesn't want to have children who's older than her, and she is in a great career. And I just asked her a few questions, and she's like, Oh my god, you're such a mom. She's like, I get the thing I need to be asking myself isn't about the guy, it's about what do I want? Do I want to keep working and not have children and move in? Or do I want to keep working and have a child? And if he's not the guy, do I want to just do that on my own? Right?

SPEAKER_01 25:26

But like, big questions, big questions, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Right, but when we share as women and we start talking to each other, we've if if you're older and this is a younger person, you've already faced that question. Right? If you're 50 and they're 30, you've already been through it, and there's something you can give back to them.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Yes. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

I just really, really, really want women to give yourself compassion, run your process, and learn from it, right? So whether that's in communication or whether that's in your life situation, your gut's telling you something, sit down, run a linear process, and then ask yourself what you learned, then go back to the gut and say, should I do this or not?

SPEAKER_01 26:06

So do you think in your gut you always knew, maybe after that time your grandma sat you down, that you were gonna have a career and be very successful, but maybe weren't as sure that you would be a mom. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see how it works out. Or did you know with both of those, like that's gonna happen for me? I want that no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Um, no, I knew that I didn't want to have a child on my own, so I knew I wouldn't do parenting by myself. And it wasn't until I met somebody that I was like, okay, love him, love his family, really want to bring a child up in this environment. I'm gonna go for it, right? So I knew that I always wanted to work and have a career. I was really clear about that.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Okay, interesting. Okay, and so you have a child. Do you have one, two?

SPEAKER_00 26:52

How old are your kids now? Um yeah, so my daughter's 18, graduating from high school this year, off to uh Holy Cross College in Worcester Mass. And um, I had her at 38 and I miscarried at 41. So the only advice I would give women is you know, test your eggs, see what's happening. Because I got pregnant first try, so I didn't think it would be an issue. And then when we had the test, and the doctor said you have so few follicles, even just that short time later at 41, that I won't even give you IBF.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

She was like, No, they could refuse.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yeah, she's like, because of the follicle count, she's like, it's it'll literally won't produce anything.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah, it's amazing what they can see, you know, if they actually, you know, use the ultrasound and look up in there and find out what's going on. So, as an older woman, if I was talking like to this 30-year-old, I would say, get it tested, you know, find out what's going on with your eggs. That, like, right, my gut says I really want to have kids. What am I gonna do? Am I gonna quit working? Be with a man who doesn't want kids. Okay, fine. Go to a doctor and find out, like, get the information, right? Research it.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Yeah, I I went through them myself. I had two miscarriages before my son and then one before my daughter. So uh, and but I kept trying and it worked out, and my two kids are out of school now. And, you know, I knew in my mind, no matter what, I would be a mom. Not everyone has that feeling. And I thought about it. I remember years ago, you know, Murphy Brown, right? Becoming a single mom, and that was a big deal, you know. Oh, you know, this career woman's gonna have a child on her own. And I was like, well, if it came down to it, if if I had to, if that was the best thing for being a mom, I wasn't with the right person, I would do that. And you made a clear decision, like, I'm not gonna do that. Now, I think I probably thought that in my mind very unrealistic and idealistic, like, oh, just figure it out, you know, not really thinking how hard it is, because it is hard. I mean, it's hard no matter what your situation. So tell me about that, about being this high-powered woman, and then you go to having a baby, right? Where you're not in control. And so if you're that A-type personality, it's very difficult because you're like, Oh, I have to be the perfect mom. I have to have everything scheduled out. And so, how are you dealing with being a mother and and not having all these important, you know, work projects? And did you decide that you weren't gonna have any childcare because you weren't working, so to speak, in a job?

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah, so um, I didn't start her in child care until she was around four or five years old because I wanted her to be with other kids, and then it was, you know, the three to four hours a day, but the three to four hours a day, so if it was like eight to one, that's five hours, it gave me time to work with nonprofits, to get involved in, you know, food organizations, nonprofits, um, consult on the side a little bit if I wanted to. So I didn't not do anything, but I didn't go full in. So it was also that's a conscious decision, right? I'm gonna step out. I really want to do this and do it 100%. Okay, now that she's older, I want to do it 75%. And just made the commitment until she was like uh around junior high. I'm like, okay, now I'm all back in because they don't need you, you know, somewhere around 14, they're just like completely done with you.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Yeah, they don't even want to be around you.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Yeah, they're done. They want your guidance. You know, they you know, you still give them the you the reins are there and you still have a hold of the back tail of the reins, but they've really got them for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

So I want to talk about this profile on LinkedIn because you could have easily put during those four years, you know, the year that you worked on the book, you know, which was when the baby was young, and then the consulting that you did. You could have even put the volunteer work in without using the word volunteer, just put the organization and your title. You could have easily made those four years look as if you had a typical career trajectory, you took a few little twists and turns and didn't take any time off. But you consciously put, you know, stay-at-home parent, you know, um, and you listed those, you know, stay-at-home parent, family care, and community leadership. Why did you make that decision? And have you gotten any pushback because of it?

SPEAKER_00 31:14

No, I actually get questions about it, right? Like there's a bunch of time. So what did you do with your time? People are more interested in like, so what did you do? Especially women. What did you do? With a newborn, what did you do? You were nursing, probably, right? Yeah, but not when she was older, you know, like I still took time. So what were you doing? How did that satisfy you? How did you feel, you know, gratification in doing that? So, and I may be type A, but I also like different projects, which is why having different clients always has worked for me. So, okay, I'm being a mom now. Okay, now I'm over here helping this nonprofit. Okay, now I have this client, right? So it was always like segregated off. So I felt like I was addressing all the pie of me, the whole pie chart of myself.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

So you always maintain your identity of D D D the career woman, DD the project manager, D D the leadership consultant, separate from DD the mom, DD the wife. Yeah. Which I think is very important for women. And and you know, fully support what whatever choice a woman is thinks is right for her to stay at home, to, you know, go back to work part-time. You know, I was a reporter and loved my career and cut back to two days a week. And so many friends were like, You worked so hard to get that job in TV news. And I'm like, I'm still doing it, but I want to spend five days a week with my kids and be the room mom and the soccer coach. And that's what I want to do. Not everyone wants to do that. I don't say like everyone should do that. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be at every game. Some parents are like, I don't need to watch them play soccer when they're four years old or t-ball, you know, but I wanted to be there. And so, you know, you have to, and you do that, you train people doing that in the workplace, but in in life as well, right? It's very helpful to do that.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Right. And I think sometimes, you know, as a parent, maybe we need to ask ourselves, like, what would be important to the kid? How do like different kids are different? Like, some kids want you around and some kids don't want you around, right? So, like adjusting too. Like, okay, I have this child and now I thought I was gonna stay home, but they're like seven and they want to go to gymnastics for like 10 hours a day after school, right? Or whatever it is, they don't even want me around. Like, I'm literally just the taxi.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Yeah. Yeah, everyone's that feeling that's been a mom. So tell me how the child care search went for you when it was time to put your child in child care before they went to school. Um, did you do an exhaustive search? Did you just say, oh, I have a local place that's near me, they'll be there for you know, five hours a day. It seems fine to me. You know, did you have any other type of child care once they got a a little older, you know, before they were really like preteen? Did you have to have somebody help like after school or before school? Tell me about some of those challenges. Because I'm curious as somebody running mom sub about the childcare, you know, trajectory that you went through as a working mom.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Sure, thank you. Um, so when she was little, I still thought it was important for like even as an infant, I still thought it was important for my husband and I to have time together. So I asked people who I knew who might know somebody that I would be okay leaving my child with. And what was so great is we were in Boston with no family, and I asked somebody, and they were like, ask somebody from California, and she was like, you know, my daughter's friend is at Mass General, interning in the NICU. I'm like, yeah, she's my girl. I'm good with that, right? So like so I went to people who I knew and people who were older than me who would like she'd have her population, plus she had her kids' population. Like, who can I find that's a quantified resource? Then we moved again, and then I used an agency, and I just vetted, right? Like, I want the resumes, I'd call the other parents, I like just want them to come do date night, or maybe I want them to start doing sports so I can skip a couple games.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

And so you went to an agency, and I think a lot of working moms are hesitant to pay someone to do something they feel like I should do for a lot of things, whether it's helping having an agency help you with childcare or having someone come in and clean your home. You know, do you how do you help women get over this idea of I I should be doing it myself? You know, maybe they're hesitant to delegate, both at home and at the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Right. So I don't know how PC correct I have to be, but don't shoot on me, I won't shoot on you, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Like, yes. The shoulds can overtake us, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Stop, right? So I think the service you provide is like invaluable, like so valuable because you are the expert, right? Like, I'm not trying to give my child health care, right? I'm taking them to a doctor. There is no way I, as an individual, can vet as many people as you can as a service provider. And you have all the people who were your clients who then can talk to me about the service providers you're providing. Right? So for me, I looked at agencies as experts in what they're doing. This is not that this is not when we were kids where you call the kid down the block and come babysit. This is not the world we're in anymore. And you have to accept that. And there are people like you who have created great businesses and great service profiles who can help you do the thing that feels really hard, which is leave your child with a stranger, basically.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

And how do you think life and your career is different as a working mom than before you were a mother?

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Oh wow. Um, well, I think the best advice I got when I got pregnant is a friend said to me, Welcome to the last day. Yesterday was the last day you'll ever not be thinking about that child. Right? The day before you get pregnant is the last day you'll ever not be thinking about the child. And so it becomes part of you. Your schedule becomes part of you. I mean, even to this day, as a senior, you know, I'll get messages from my daughter, hey, because she has a huge curriculum of activities. She does 10 to 15 hours of theater, like it's a big deal, right? When they're doing a performance, she does a whole day of school and then another six to eight hours during a performance. And she'll say, I want to see you. Can we break at this time for dinner? This is when my break is. Can we get together? Can I see you? Right. So that adjusts my schedule. So that's I think that you take in consideration your children just like any other human being you would want to spend time with as they as they get older.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

And I can tell you, even when they're out of school and have moved out, you still do it, you know. Like, oh, you want to um stop by on Sunday evening? Well, I'll make sure I'm available.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Exactly. You're always gonna say yes, right? It's like you're gonna make it work unless there's some, unless you paid a lot of money to go to the ballet or something, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:04

You're gonna say then I'm gonna say, why don't you come with me?

unknown 38:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Sometimes I'll say to my daughter, oh, why don't we do this activity? Are you paying? And I know that'll get her to, yeah, I'll pay. You know, we'll go ice skating, you know, together. I'll pay, of course, you know. For my boyfriend too, yeah, sure, you know. And she's like, okay, we'll go.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Exactly. No, a hundred percent. I love that you do the same thing. I think it's very important to continue the relationship as they age up.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

So the day that I learned when my child was about a year old that it's okay to bribe them. And I was like, what? Like, you can if to get them to do something you want, offer positive reinforcement, you know, this candy, you know, a few minutes on the iPad or whatever, it's not a bad thing. Really? Yes, it's encouraged. It's better than punishment, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Right. Well, I mean, but we as adults give ourselves positive, you know. I'm gonna work 10 hours and I'm gonna go to the gym, or I work 10 hours, I meet my friends' friends for drinks, or I'm gonna go to the go golfing, right? Like, we give ourselves positive encouragement. I'm against negative, right? I'm definitely against the other. Like, I think that positive encouragement or talking to a child and figuring out why they might be doing something that's not working is so important.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

So, one more thing I want to cover before we wrap up. You had a lot of roles where you worked in an organization for a company, but now you have your own business. So that's a whole nother decision, right? Like having a child. And it's just as hard in some ways, just as um as grueling to make that decision and go for it, knowing the implications. So this is your life now. You're the business owner, and it's different really than just having some projects, being a consultant. You've given your business a name, you've created a framework for it, you've put your face on it, you know, this people are gonna judge you by how well your business does. Why did you make that decision? Um, and you know, I didn't get a sense. Had you done that before? Any of the things that you did, were they actually your businesses, or were you more in partnership with others?

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Uh the the vitamin was definitely mine all in in the beginning until I got a partner. So I started it, I put my name on it, I created it, I developed it. And then I didn't take on a partner until I saw the opportunity to scale. So just like a startup, right? Like when I saw the opportunity to scale that I did. This project, you know, discover response came around because my clients started asking for it. I would get hired to say, do mediation between two employees, or do DNT like over here for this project for this reason, or do some scrum sprints, right? And then people would start working with me and they say, Well, I really want to talk to you about the way you communicate and some of the things you say and the way you manipulate the conversation, their words, right? And I said, Okay, people are actually noticing that what I do is different, so why don't I take the time to like put a name on it? And then I started thinking back. I went, okay, wait a minute. Gail said the same thing, that professor said the same thing. Like I've heard this message before, and now here I am with these clients, and they're saying the same thing. And it's been, I would say this one is uh definitely different and more challenging than the Vitamin Project because it's all me, right? Write the book, make the videos, get the like speaker gigs, like all of it's all me. Get the clients, all of it's all me. No, I don't know, maybe somebody will come along someday and say, I want to scale that, and we should be doing train the trainer or something, but for now, this is what it is, right?

SPEAKER_01 41:56

And so I want to wrap this up by asking you if you could go back to an earlier version of you, knowing then what you know now. What's the one thing you would change? Wow, let me think.

SPEAKER_00 42:09

Anything, personal career. Um, well, I definitely would have taken the job with the hard work startup personally. Definitely would have taken that risk. Did it did it go somewhere? Did it make some money? Yeah, it did make some money. Yeah, and I think they ended up selling the CDW, so yeah, they made some money. Yeah, they got absorbed. You know, the hardware companies were the first to start getting absorbed, right? Yeah, so um I actually have that challenge again right now. There's a startup in Arizona. I've been functioning as basically the bridge between the technologists and the VCs in the meetings, right? Taking their technology and being able to explain it, um, doing introductions to everyone in the government industry in DC. And now I'm at that point, like if they get funded, do I go all in? Like they're like the CTO is like, I'd like you to be the CCO, right? The chief communication officer. And I'm like, okay, now what, right? Like, do I stop doing my thing and jump over there and let the past give me a lesson of where to not say no? Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

Well, see, I I'm one of these people that I'll just do it all, right? Your child is graduating. Yeah. So that full-time job, if it comes along, takes the place of that. Yes. And then you could still have a few little discover response clients on the side so the business doesn't just go away. I mean, I I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy, but right?

SPEAKER_00 43:44

No, I love that. No, or I could just actually negotiate fractional, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:48

Like we can negotiate. And that's so common nowadays. Like it's 30, 40 hours, and I'm gonna do this other 15 to 20. And that helps the company, right? Because with fractional, they've got someone who's committed. Like a team member, they can, you know, declare that they're part of the team, but they're saving some costs there, right? In terms of, you know, not having to bring somebody on fully, but you could still get all the benefits you would in terms of, you know, if if there's options and things like that, right? Right. So fractional is, you know, back in the day when I became a reporter, you know, freelance was very common for journalists, not so much for others. Then the gig economy sort of blew up, and now people, you know, commonly take on different projects and and build their career without necessarily just one job at one place. And so fractional is making it a new avenue for people who have those executive skills and really, you know, don't want to just do a gig here and a gig there and be committed, but have the opportunity to do other things. So, you know, I think that's a beautiful new word and world that is opened up that's helped a lot of women.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

I do too. I think it's helped a lot of women, especially working moms to pick up fractional things. Yes, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

And today you have helped working moms with all the great insights that you shared. And I appreciate your appearance here today on this episode of Women in Work. If you were inspired by today's story, remember to share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe to meet our next amazing guest. If you or anyone you know is struggling to find the right childcare, check out momsub.com where you can find videos of moms and caregivers who are specifically connected to you through your criteria. And that's momsub like a substitute mom. You can also find us on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, or LinkedIn. Our mission is for you to discover what you want in life, like Didi did, pursue it with intensity, reach out for help when needed if you need childcare, and fulfill your dream, reducing your stress, your guilt, and your self-criticism, and improving your calm and confidence and clarity along the way. Remember that your career, your choices, and your success are yours to define. So keep pushing boundaries and spreading your love and encouragement to other women who need it.