64: Demanding career vs kids: Unconscious choices | Women and Work

Building a successful career often means making choices you never expected—and sometimes, those choices shape your entire life.

For Jeanne Sparrow, a decades-long career in television and radio brought incredible opportunities, meaningful relationships, and personal fulfillment. But along the way, she realized that demanding careers often require unconscious choices about family, relationships, and what truly matters.

Instead of dwelling on what might have been, Jeanne learned to embrace the choices she made, remain authentic, and define success on her own terms.

In this episode of Women and Work, Jeanne shares how mentorship, sponsorship, curiosity, and fearless authenticity helped her build a lasting career in media.

Topics discussed:
• The hidden sacrifices behind demanding careers
• Mentors vs. sponsors—and why you need both
• How being coachable opens career doors
• Defining success on your own terms
• The challenge of balancing career, family, and personal dreams
• Why fearless authenticity matters in every stage of life

Have you ever looked back and wondered how your career choices shaped the life you have today?

Struggling to find the right child care? Get a video interview of your ideal nanny at https://www.momsub.com/child-care-options

#WomenAndWork #JeanneSparrow #FearlessAuthenticity #CareerGrowth #WomenInLeadership

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Mentor and sponsor, yes. Um, which are two completely different things that I think we don't get taught enough about.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Explain.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Um, I had people who not only mentored me in the sense of helping me, of giving me advice, asking my questions, but then also said my name in rooms that I didn't have access to, that put their reputations on the line to recommend to me for things and said, Hey, you've got I can't tell you how many jobs I've gotten because some producer or some former colleague said to somebody, you need to call Gene for that. Oh, you're doing this? Hold up, I got somebody for you. And our business works like that. Like you talk about that's really my longevity, has been more about the relationships I've had through the work that we've done together, and um and and and just continuing to pay that forward. And so I've tried to do the same for the people who've come behind me.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Welcome to Women and Work, the show where we take an inside look at how women are overcoming our own unique challenges as we grow our careers or build a business while nurturing relationships and family. I'm Diane Mocha, founder and CEO of Mom Sub, the childcare app that connects you to a substitute mom. And I want you to know that work can fit your life. Each week we meet a woman who has done that. And today I'm honored to be with Jean Sparrow. She has spent more than three decades in media as a television host and radio host and reporter at multiple stations in Chicago, including NBC, WGN, and the U, where she hosted the morning show for eight years. Jean is currently a sought-after speaker. Now, as a fellow TV news journalist, I know that eight years on a morning show is an eternity in TV time, and it demonstrates her staying power. And now she's had that same experience as a speaker. She's been inspiring audiences for the past eight years to live with fearless authenticity. That's the name of her recent book, her podcast, and the brand that she founded. All right, Jean, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me, Diane. It's a pleasure. And I see that you uh spoke at the Grace Hopper Celebration where I was. I saw you there. As a matter of fact, I used to see you in the newsroom now and then when I was a business reporter at the U when you were hosting the morning show. And I know how challenging it is to land any job in media. And when I look at your resume and all the different positions you've had, all the different shows you've hosted, it's very impressive. And I know it took a lot of um fortitude to overcome the many challenges and obstacles. And I want to start with what you think was the biggest challenge that you faced in that long career because you are a woman.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

It's interesting you asked that. I love the I love the word fortitude because that is definitely what you need, I think, to be successful at anything and to stay. Um, you know, I have never really given too much thought to what being a woman has meant to my work. Do you know what I'm saying? It's who I am, but I feel like had I focused on that, I would have been discouraged and I wouldn't have had the fortitude to keep doing it. Because there are so many things that are not fair for us as women in work, especially in TV journalism. That's something I didn't realize when I moved from radio to TV. Like the way we look is so focused. It's such a focal point of our work, even though more likely you're gonna get fired because you didn't get something right, but you got to get something right and do all this other stuff where men don't have the same pressure. I would I would say that, and and here is the most disappointing part of it for me. And I'm glad that I would had most of my career prior to social media, because I feel like now there's even more pressure because of the need to be engaged on social media, but also what that exposes you to, because some people are just there to be just uh, you know, you know, their trolls are gonna be trolls, right? But I do think that that I we can't ignore how that affects us. So I chose, I made an active decision not to think about that and just accept it as part of my job and do the best that I could with it, right? Because it's not going away. I'm not changing that. It still hasn't gone away. I do think things have gotten better for us in that, in that um arena because now we don't all look the same. We don't have to look the same. And I even, you know, found my place with that because I wore my curly hair, right? Instead of, you know, blowing it out and and that sort of thing. But um, I would say that would have to be the biggest thing is the fact that we have this other layer of accountability about something that has nothing to do with our job.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

And like you said, the fact that it's so much a woman's focus when you're in that world and not men. And it brings me back to a time at my first station where I I worked as a reporter. When I started there, I remember there the anchor was having a meeting with the news director and ran out crying. And I'm asking the people around me, what's happening? What's going on? You know, well, she's been an anchor here for a while, and they called her in to tell her she's starting to look too matronly, so they're taking her off the air. They literally said that. In little old Rockford, Illinois, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

And the fact that that's okay to say somebody to somebody, because here's the thing when you get to a certain age in life, your body changes, your face changes, and the men change too. Yes. And they're sitting up there looking, you know, as portly as they can, no shade. And he was older than her, co-anchor, and his job was perfectly secure. And that's that's not fair. And the one thing I will say though is that I have seen that, I think it's much more upfront in our industry, in in uh broadcasting, but it happens everywhere else. It's just much more subtle. And I don't think people notice it because you, you know, we all judge people by how they present, right? We we decide, even if it's not a bad judgment, we make a decision about what we think about them, about how we receive them. And I do think broadcasting, especially television broadcasting, is more honest about that. Um, because the one of the things that really surprised me, and this is when I made the decision not to let this bother me, is that I used to get comments from women.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

You mean unflattering comments?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah. I used to get that some I would get more, I would get more comments from women, period, whether it was flattering or not. That men didn't take the time to about your appearance. About my appearance. Men didn't take the time to like leave a voicemail because back then you had to leave a voicemail or shoot us an email, right? Because email was still was new toward the latter end of when I well, no, well, I'm thinking about NBC because that's when I made the decision. That the things that happened to me when I was at NBC, I was just like, oh, y'all are real special. Because then I was on every day. Like prior to that, I had been an entertainment reporter. I was on once a week. So I wasn't really a focal point. But when I started doing traffic every day, then and you know, and traffic is a full body view in front of a you know map, baby, listen. And and and sometimes sisterhood is not something that other folks know how to do very well. And I was just like, girl, you got a problem. And I would just put it down and go, if my boss listens to it, then I'll take it up with them. But I'm I'm like, don't send me this stuff anymore. If unless it's something I can respond to, like if it's about the traffic, if it's about something somebody needs, if it's something I can help with, 100%. But this other little penny annie stuff, I don't have time.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

And this is before the era, like you said, of social media and trolls. People were taking the time to pick up, make a phone call, figure out the phone number, send an email, send a letter, send a letter.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Send a letter, girl.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

How you looked, not how you did your job. And I'm sure you look great. You would not have been in that position. And you know, you have to, like you said, present yourself a certain way to get jobs in television news. I mean, I had times when, you know, I was first starting and I didn't really know how to do my makeup or how to wear the right clothes. And and I was told, like, well, your reporting's great, but yeah, you gotta work on, can you do your hair different? Um, why are you wearing that dress? And I was like, why does that matter so much? So I was one of those kind of hitting my head against the wall. My writing should matter. And you were like, you know what? I'm just in this world, this is what I'm gonna deal with, and I'm gonna not worry about it. I will do my best. The naysayers.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yep, I will do my best, but you can't live yourself, your life by the people because there's always gonna be somebody saying no. Always. There's always gonna be somebody who is uncomfortable with something you make them think of or they don't understand because it's different, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. So until somebody tells me it's bad and it's bad for my work, then I'm it's not on my list of things to do. I have too many things to do. I don't know how people have time to worry about the things that don't concern them, but here I am.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

What do you think it is about your background, the way you grew up, the experiences you had that made you strong that way? Because there are some people that would leave crying and say, I'm never going back.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Because I went through that as a kid, right? I had super thick eyeglasses, still do. I will never wear them in public because even though that's a part of who I am, my friends get to see that, but not the rest of the world because I got made fun of it too much. But that makes you tough. Like when you wear glasses, I mean, just wearing glasses, right? I wore glasses from the time I was like four. And because I was born with, you know, and it's and it still is weird to me to this day that people think it's okay to make fun of something that is actually medically necessary. But okay, whatever. I'm not disabled. And, you know, it's it is it is a drawback, but it is who I am. But I had to endure that, and kids can be mean, and it made me stronger. I, you know, I cried, I did that, but I also learned how to give back what I got. And that's part of the reason why I'm able to talk the way I do. Uh, because I have a retort for everything. And if you poke the beast, you will get it. But I mean, I've made peace with that at this point in my life. But I think that's what made me tougher, is that I had this hard time and I learned how to manage it. And I also learned that that didn't change who I was, but it took a long time, you know, because you you go back and forth with that because then when you get to be a teenager, it means something different. Like, are the boys not talking to me because I have these glasses? Mommy, I need contact lenses. And girl, I lobbied my mother for two years to get contact. I didn't get contacts until 10th grade. And I so yeah, my junior high and ninth grade year were quite interestingly boring.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Did that change things? Did you suddenly feel more confident? Did it make you a different person in this world?

SPEAKER_00 12:05

It didn't make me different, but it also taught me a lot about how people see you. And that's the other reason I think, you know what I'm saying? All these little things get put together. But I saw when I went back to school, because I got them like over the summer between ninth and tenth grade. And in the town I'm from, our we had a senior high school that was 10 through 12. So ninth grade was by itself. And it was almost like I think it was kind of the precursor to middle school, right? And so we went to seventh and eighth together, and then we we went to uh freshman high school, and then we went to senior high. So when I was off that summer, is when I got my contact lenses. So I go back to a new school, I mean, same students, but new school, new me, and the way that people treated me was different. I was like, huh, that's really interesting. That tells me more about you than it does about me. And and I had, and you know, I cannot discount my parents and how you know, because they're the ones who had to soothe me when I was upset about these things. And my mother was like, let me tell you a story about this person, because you know, I'm from a small town, this person, this person, and this person. She was like, they were the most beautiful in high school, and look at them now. She was like, Not that they're not still beautiful on the inside, but but you would know. And my and then she pulled out pictures and she said they were the most popular girls in high school, and they're still wonderful women, but looks fade, looks mean less than who you are. And there was one woman she didn't particularly like in the group, and she was just like, She's not that nice of a lady because she didn't do the work on herself, like she was she was mean, and and seeing that and knowing these women, because these women were my friends' mothers, and I was just like, wait a minute, okay, so this doesn't last forever, right? And so any of those women or or or the occasional man who made a comment about how I looked or whatever, you know what? They got something too.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

And and the insight that you got from your mother was so critical for the industry that you went into.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Had no clue. Had no clue.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

So you weren't you weren't always planning to be a journalist or go into television?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

My when I first started in radio, because I it was it was all okay. So I was in speech and debate in high school, and my speech and debate coach was friends with the guy who ran the local radio station. And he was he always liked to have high school and college kids working for him because it made sense, you know, part-time jobs, what have you. And also there was a mass com department at the local university. So a lot of times, if you could get kids who were interested in it, then they'll go to the and then they'll work all the way through or what have you. So I went to audition um with my best friend at the time. We both were on the speech of debate team and we went and auditioned, and I ended up getting the job, and yes, we're still friends to this day. Um, and it was just something fun to do. And it was the only job my mom would let me get because she was like, I don't want you working just a fast food job or a retail job because if it's not what you're interested in, then you're just doing it for the money, and you're not actually, even though you're learning things from it, you're not learning something that's gonna help you move forward. And you might get more attached to the money than you will to the actual things that you're learning on the job. And she was like, I don't want you to just do a job for the money. I want you to do it because you love it. And I was like, Yeah, mom, whatever. Can I go work at that radio station? Because it sounds like fun. And she was like, Yes, baby, you can. And I think she was also um really happy about that because I could never ask for really extra hours because it was a daytime AM. So we worked on, you know, that was when radio used to go off. So I had a shift, I think like once or twice during the week in the evenings, and on Saturday or Sunday, one shift. So because, and it was myself, it was another um girl I went to school with. Well, I had gone to school with her at another school. And so she and I were the were the part-timers he had hired. And then there was a girl who worked who was uh at the local university who was so cool and fun and sweet, who taught me everything and was just so generous and kind. And, you know, that imprinted on me how I should be as a woman at work uh for other women at work. Because at that time we were in an industry where there were so many men and and and not very few women. So I was blessed to have that right then. And my bosses were cool too. Now, my aunt always used to say to me, You should do TV. And I was like, I don't want to do TV. You got to get dressed up for that. Like radio, you could, especially back then, you could just roll in whatever you had on, whatever you look like from the night before is fine. You didn't have to have on makeup and stuff like that. And you could, it was just your voice, and you could have fun. And eventually I got the opportunity to do TV, and then I really liked it. So yeah, then I had to start thinking about all the rest. But I was I was already a solid 10 years into my career before I did I did any TV.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

So and you talk about that mass comm department at that local college, but you ended up going to Northwestern.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

I did, I did, I did.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

That was a big jump from Louisiana.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yes, it was. Well, my mother went to Northwestern for graduate school, and so I always saw Northwestern around the house and I thought it was cool. And my daddy wouldn't let me go anywhere else out of state. Um, I think he would have let me go to Texas, but my father always had this thing about you have to be near family. And my mom had a lot of siblings here. So it was, you know, it was just one of those things where I was like, I had the exposure. My mom was like loved her experience there. And I was like, you know what? I want to have a new experience. I want to do something different. And, you know, and this is no shade to anybody who went to LSU, Tulane, or Loyola, New Orleans, which are all the schools that I was like, that my dad and my grandmother wanted me to go to. But um, I wanted something different. And the thing about all of those places where they were places I had been before, right? And there were experiences I had. Like I spent half of my high school at the local university at UL, Louisiana. It was you called USL at the time. But I was in their library. Like when you couldn't find stuff in our local library, we would go to Lafayette, the next town over, to the local university. And I was in that library, especially during the summer when I had programs and stuff like that, you know, the enrichment stuff you do. So that was like an extension of my educational experience. And I was like, I need something different. And boy, did I get it.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Were you still doing radio then when you went to college?

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Um, I ended up working at WNUR, the radio station uh at Northwestern the entire time I was there. I think I started like winter quarter because I didn't realize how bad winters were here and that you needed to have indoor activities. Um, yeah, my aunt had to get me a coat. She called my mom. She was like, Ethel, this coat will not do. And I was like, she was like, Where's your winter coat? Like I'd gone for Thanksgiving dinner to my aunt's house and I had the coat on. She was like, and yeah, where's your winter coat? It's a little cold for that coat. You know, even though my uncle had come to pick me up, I was like, Oh, it's fine. She says, You're not gonna be walking down Sheridan Road with that coat come January. I had no idea. And so for she, unbeknownst to me, I found this out later. She called my mom and was like, Ethel, you got to do something about this. So she went in the Spiegel catalog, picked out a parka, a down parka, and I had my first down parka. I was like, mommy, why did you give me a comforter for Christmas? She said, Maybe that's a coat.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

And you were thankful when you were walking down Sheridan Road and the wind was blowing.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

I was indeed because I lived on South Campus and I had, you know, a lot of your freshman classes are on North Campus because that's where the big halls are. Girl, I was, I was, uh had an awakening. And that's when I realized, okay, I need to do stuff to get out of my dorm room and out of the dorm. So I, you know, went over to NUR and I ended up getting a job there. And I ended up being, you know, running one of the programs and was really involved in it and loved it and kept doing it, but still never thought it would be a career.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

What did you think was gonna be your career? What were your big things? I was gonna be a psychologist. I was gonna be a therapist.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, I got a degree in psychology. I thought I was gonna be a therapist because I was fascinated by how people thought, you know, that those the like I loved psychological thrillers at the time, the books I read. And I remember I read The Three Faces of Eve. And I remember the the um the protagonist to the one that I identified in the book with was the psychologist because he was trying to, or I can't remember, I can't even remember all the characters now. A little brain fog, um, which I know a lot of women understand. Um, but I remember like identifying with the therapist, the psychologist in that, in that book. And I remember thinking, gosh, you can really make an impact on people's lives if you can, you know, help them see themselves, right? So that's what I thought I was gonna do. I took a gap year, basically. We didn't call it that then, but I decided at graduation that I wanted to take a year off before going back to grad school because I was kind of burnt out on school. And, you know, I had a great advisor at the time, was like, do something you like and just have fun. And so when I went to the career center, they were like, You ever think about radio? You've been doing it all this time. I was like, people don't make money at that. And he was just like, You kidding, right? And so I got an internship. While I was still, he was like, just try it out, see if you like it. And then I realized that it was a whole other industry that was a viable career path. And I never went back to get my PhD.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

So did you have, once you started realizing this was the path you were on, you know, like big plans and dreams? Were you thinking about other things in the future? Did you grow up as a little girl going, someday I'm gonna get married and have a family and I'm gonna have this career and it's gonna be great? And like, what were the things that you fantasized about when you were young? And then how did it really turn out in your life? Why was it different?

SPEAKER_00 22:36

So, okay, so this is gonna sound really weird, but I was convinced I was gonna die at 30. Like I thought that's when life ended. I literally thought that until I turned like 18 and got, and I was like, oh, people do live past that. Because I think I thought my mom and my dad were 30. Like, I don't think I think it was just this arbitrary number, but I thought I would get married, have kids, like I would go to college, get married, have kids, work, and then die. Like I thought all that happened before 30 when I was a kid, and I never really adjusted it. And also 30, my 30th year was 2000, the year 2000. I also thought the world was gonna end in 1999 because Prince told us that. And I was convinced, you know, party over, oops, 1999. So I was like, okay, I'll be 30, it'll be done, I'll get everything in before then. Okay, let's do it. And um, when I got into radio, I did not understand fully until much later how when you pursue a career that is demanding of your time, how difficult it is to meet somebody, to get married and have kids. That's something I've never mastered, right? And part of that is because of what the choice, those little choices you make, really add up. I don't regret a thing, but I didn't know that at the time. And so I just went with what I was, you know, what I was good at and what I was best at and what my heart told me to do. It still worked out, it just didn't work out anything like I thought it would. You know, I don't know that it, I mean, the people who it does, I'm always fascinated by them because like, how did you know? Um, I knew that I wanted to talk for a living. That's the reason why therapy and psychology was really important. I like I loved listening to people and talking. My mother thought I should have been a lawyer because I will argue you down. Um, but I didn't, I was like, I saw court shows and I was like, I don't think so. Um I'm not um what was the show when we were kids? I'm not Perry Mason, you know, I'm not um, you know, what was the other one where they used to be in court all the time? Matlock. Matlock. I'm not Matlock. When I saw Matt, you know, and two, you didn't really see any women lawyers until like what LA Law, right? Remember LA Law? That was a mess. Um, and I loved every minute of it as a kid when I would sneak and watch it. Um, but yeah, I didn't, I didn't see that, right? And I think you have to see something to be it, and you have to see yourself in it. You have to imagine not only see somebody who looks like you, see another woman, you know, what or whatever, you know, identities you have. I think you also have to be able to inhabit that place in your mind. And I could always inhabit a place that had talking. I could always inhabit a place that had music. That's the reason why radio was the first entree point, because it was music. Um my mother was a musician. So um, yeah, I think I think it just I do think my steps were guided, that's for sure. But was it and and I think it was furthered by the choices I made, but was it a plan? Absolutely not. Now, my friends may tell you something different because one of my friends swears that if I decide to do something, it it gets done. And uh and she was like, I've watched your career. She was like, Everything you said you wanted to do, you've done. And I said, Okay, I guess. But I think of that as like one step and then the next, and then the next one.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Like goals and manifesting.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Exactly. But I didn't know that's what I was doing.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

You talk about the demanding nature of this business, and boy, I understand that. You understand that. And and there are a lot of businesses that are demanding, maybe not quite in the 24-7 way that television and radio is. But I want to know about this choice once you recognized it. You you don't usually don't know in the beginning, but you start to see friends and other people who can put their job, you know, in the background, who can go home and go out and not not be called in, you know, and and then you have this whole other thing where it became your life, it sounds like. When when it becomes that demanding, like you said, there's other things that you don't have time for, you don't even have space for in your brain. Did you make a conscious choice? And what would you say to other women who are in demanding fields, you know, about that choice that either happened to you or you made a conscious choice that, well, this is gonna maybe drown out the other things in life that I thought I might have?

SPEAKER_00 27:26

You know, I think I think Oprah said it best when she was like, you can't have it all at the same time, right? You can have it all. It just may not look the way you think it will. And you do have to let some things go. And you do make choices in the moment that you may not realize the impact of it. But if it is good for right now, then that's what it has to be, right? We're not living for, we're not living in tomorrow. We may want to make it to tomorrow, but that's not guaranteed. And I think, you know, like I was talking to a friend of mine. Uh, there we're like when we were in um right after college, when everybody had, you know, Memorial Day off and Labor Day off. And that was, you know, we would go to like these little festivals in like Cancun or Jamaica or whatever. Like, I didn't get to go to any of those because I was working, because I was the I wanted the opportunity and I was available to fill in. And so I couldn't go on Memorial Day. I could go at other weird times, but I couldn't go then. And so um I learned that that was more important to me, right? Because it was the choice I made. What you choose is what you want. And if you're not choosing what you want, then you have to ask yourself why. And I think that is true regardless of where you are, whether you're at the beginning of your career or further down the line. I think that's always a choice we make. Um, you know, are you going to prioritize making it to your kids' soccer game or to your, you know, like all of my friends, their kids are going on their prom send-offs and their college trunk parties, though, those are probably coming later this summer and the graduations and things like that. This month has been chuck a bluck with that stuff. And you know what? I make it an effort because I've watched these kids grow up. They're my kids too, right? And I'm proud of them. I make it a priority to go to their prom send-offs. And because you don't get to have that moment again. You don't get to see that again. So the question becomes what are you choosing? And why are you choosing it? And do you feel like you've lost out? But like thinking about the things you might have been is a useless, useless exercise because where does that actually get you? You know, I mean, think about it, like talk about that with your therapist if you need to work through it. But honestly, perseverating about the things, the choices you made, that you made the choice you made at the moment because that's what you wanted to do. And if it wasn't what you wanted to do, then rethink that. That's what I would say about that.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

You talked about crazy May. The moms call it May Sember. Maybe we know how crazy December is, right? With holidays, especially when you have a family, and there's so many end of school year, this, that, and the other things that the moms are going crazy this time of year. So it's nice to be the auntie that can kind of whiz in and out, you know?

SPEAKER_00 30:15

I always like to take things off my friends too. Like, what can I do?

SPEAKER_02 30:18

That's awesome, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:20

Because I do think, you know, it's interesting. Like it does take a village. And when you realize what your role is and you fulfill it, and it's the role you want to be, not necessarily expectation, because I don't think any of my friends expect me to do anything. But I think when you do, people are just grateful to have that and realize that they are surrounded because we show each other that we're surrounded with support. We don't tell each other that. You know, like yeah, my mom used to tell me, you know, you, your friends, how did she put it? That you know who your friend is by how you fight and how you make up, and how who's actually there, physically there. And even in this day of virtual everything, that's still how you know who your group is, by who shows up.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

And like you said, being in the moment, not just showing up and being on your phone, but being there, being part of it, helping. Being present. And and that has carried you through your career, like you said, making these choices about what works for me now. So many people look back on the past and wonder, you know, should I have done this or that? And then lament that, and that's depression, or they worry so much about the future, which is anxiety. Yeah. Right? What happens if if you're too much and that goes wrong, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:39

I've been there too, because you do have these moments where you're like, oh, should I have done that and whatever? And then you work through it. And that's why I say go to your therapist, work that out. Because there will be moments when you go, wait, how did I end up here? And that's really what my book is about. That's really about that journey of, because we are always on this constant journey of discovering ourselves. And I think in middle age, you look up and you go, okay, how did I get here? By the choices you made. So looking back at those and then making peace with that and deciding, oh, what, and and also seeing, not just deciding where you're gonna go or what you're gonna fix or do differently going forward, but also appreciating what you've done and the choices that you've made and realizing that if you've been of service to someone, if you've used the gifts that you have and who you are to be of service, then you've already fulfilled at least part of your purpose. So, how do you dive deeper into that and then do it with intention? It's and and I and I think this is useful at any point in time in your life. And I think I've done that along the way, but I wasn't doing it with awareness and with as much intention as I do now.

SPEAKER_02 32:52

So your book is called Fearless Authenticity. Yes. So is that ability to be in the moment, mindful, making decisions that matter now, not worrying about the past or future part of that? And and how else can people live with fearless authenticity and why should they?

SPEAKER_00 33:10

I think that all of us, I'll answer the why should they first, because I believe that all of us were put here to do something. Like we came into this world with certain gifts and talents that we've developed, that certain interests that we followed that have helped us to grow. The problem is, and especially for us as women, we often pay more attention to what people expect of us than we do of what we want and what we are pulled to, right? Um, and especially my Gen X women, my elder millennials and above. That has been our conditioning, that has been our training. And it happens now. I will also say I've seen it happen to anybody at any phase in their life because we are taught to go along to get along. But there comes a point where making choices just for other people, not out of consideration for other people, that's different, but for other people doing what others want, making that choice where you're gonna have to undo that at some point, right? Because it's not, you're gonna wake up one day and realize this isn't right for me. How did I end up here? And when you do that, you always have an it's never too late. You always have an opportunity, but it's really about knowing what's right for you. Because I think a lot of us do go, what am I even here for? You know, um, they say that the the two most important days in your life are the day that you're born and the day that you figure out why. And some people I think are always following that and just kind of do it, don't think about it. And and it turns out okay. There are many more of us who have to do that with more intention, more questions because of the way we were brought up to be that might be at odds with what our real gifts are. Because it, you know, I remember having a conversation with my mom when um I decided to go into radio. She was like, But don't you think you should just get a teaching certificate as a backup? She was like, I don't want you to be poor. And because I was only working part-time and I was hustling, I was doing all these things, I was temping, remember temping? Um and I she was saying it out of concern. And I was like, Yeah, mama, whatever. Because I had already made my choice. And that's how my parents raised me. So even though she was concerned that the things she and my dad taught me to do is what I was actually doing, and it all worked out fine. Um she was concerned about this feels really unsteady. This feels like something that's gonna leave you in a lurch and vulnerable, and I'm worried about that. And that's absolutely fair, but I was an adult and it was time for me to make a choice, and I made a choice, and it's never not worked out.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Did you feel vulnerable?

SPEAKER_00 36:07

No, I didn't. I think I was too dumb to feel vulnerable. I think I literally the innocence of youth. Baby, listen, you couldn't tell me at 21 when I graduated from Northwestern that everything wasn't gonna turn out.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

You know everything at that point.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

I knew everything.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

The older you get, the less you know, because the more you realize what you don't know. Girl, my dad used to say that.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

My father used to say that all the time. He was like, baby, the older I get, the old more I realize how much I don't know. And that confused me when I was a kid when he would say it. And I completely understand now because I still learn something new every day. And there are times when people tell me something, I'm like, hold up, mind blown, give me a moment. I need to process this. Because when you learn something new at our big age, you should really appreciate it and have that reinforce that there is always something new that somebody can show you, teach you, and make you see in a different light. And my students, because now I teach at Northwestern, my students teach me a lot. I only teach one class and a graduate program one quarter out of the year. That's all I can do of teaching. But I think it would, I remember when I signed my first contract with them and my first agreement. I was like, my mom is somewhere laughing now because you're finally teaching. I'm finally teaching, but I think I've been teaching all along. Do you know what I mean? In some way, sharing information at least, at least that element of teaching. What is reporting but that, right? Exposing people to things, helping people realize, you know, what's going on. That's teaching in a way, it's informing.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

And did you mentor others? Did you have others mentor you? Do you think that was a big part of your success?

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Mentor and sponsor, yes. Um, which are two completely different things that I think we don't get taught enough about.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

Explain.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Um, I had people who not only mentored me in the sense of helping me, of giving me advice, asking my questions, but then also said my name in rooms that I didn't have access to, that put their reputations on the line to recommend me for things and said, Hey, you've got I can't tell you how many jobs I've gotten because some producer or some former colleague said to somebody, you need to call Gene for that. Oh, you're doing this? Hold up, I got somebody for you. And our business works like that. Like you talk about that's really my longevity has been more about the relationships I've had through the work that we've done together and um and and and just continuing to pay that forward. Um, and so I've tried to do the same for the people who've come behind me, right? Like those who come to me with questions. I always try to answer questions. Like now that I'm in the publishing world, though, it's really interesting because people keep asking me, how do I, how do I write the book? I'm like, girl, I don't even know how it happened. Okay, let me still, I'm still figuring it out. But um when you have information that other people don't and somebody asks you, I believe that I am um required to share that. That's my code, that's how I do things. I'm not saying that anybody else has to go by my code, but um once you know something, it is your duty to share that for me. And um, and that's how I've I've I've tried to live because I wouldn't be where I am had people not done that for me, had people not said, call this person. And sometimes without me even knowing why I was calling that person. Hey, listen, you got you got a second? Call this person.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Okay. How do you find and develop those sponsors? And did you find that you had an equal number of men and women or more one than the other?

SPEAKER_00 39:50

I had more men than women. More men than women. Because I think they're just more men in power positions, right? And um, like my bosses who uh saw things in me were, I mean, there were people, they were work, they still many of them started off as working relationships.

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Was it that dedication at work? Was it that I I mean, I I heard a story where a news director told a woman, I'll hire you if you have nothing else in your life, not even a cat. He literally, she hid from the entire newsroom that she was married. Isn't that crazy? These are true stories. These are people I worked with.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Now, I I never knew anybody that had that situation. That's bananas. That is bananas, but I've heard about things like late 90s, but still, not surprised 60 years ago. I hate it, but I'm not fully surprised. Like, I hate that that happened in the time frame it did. I didn't experience that in my work.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Um but was your dedication part of it or just your professionalism, the great job that you did. Can I tell you something?

SPEAKER_00 40:55

I think it was my curiosity and willingness to listen. I think that's moldable, trainable. Yeah, I think that because I was curious, because I was excited, because I mean, I think I do think having some talent and ability helped, but I also think you've got to be coachable. Right. Coachable. You've got to be coachable. And because the thing is, is that you don't come into this world fully formed. You come here with certain things, but if you don't work on it, it doesn't take you anywhere. And that's the thing I do, that's the reason why fearless authenticity is important to me, because like it does take a certain amount of fearlessness to be yourself and to also stick to your guns about what you know you're supposed to be doing or what your gut tells you. Because sometimes you don't know what you're supposed to be doing, but you keep be getting drawn to things. There's information in that. And so you do need to be fearless to be authentic, but you also have to be willing to keep making the choices that help that gift grow. We don't come here to not do anything with each other. Oops, sorry, with each other, right? We come here to do things together, and we need to be of service to each other, but that also means being engaged. And that to me is where curiosity um comes in. That's where the willingness to listen, but also know, also have the boundaries of this is what I know about myself. And what you're suggesting is a bridge too far, right? And so I think that's the reason why those relationships developed, is there was a common interest. They were as passionate about their work as I was. They saw something that they wanted to help go be better. Like I had there was a young lady that I that I worked with toward the end, not well, probably smack in the middle of my career, um, in TV. And she was super talented, but she didn't want to hear a thing I had to say. And because she asked me for my help, and then when I offered it and I said something she wasn't crazy about, she made a choice, right? And I had to accept that no matter what I saw in her, it wasn't for her. And I think all of us need to make those choices and um understand why we're making them. And I feel like she made those choices because she didn't like what I was saying, not because of whatever, but again, her choice. And I had to let that go. And I remember one of my colleagues at that station at the time said, I really wanted you to work with her, but if she doesn't want your help, then why waste your time? Um, and that was, you know, that that's only happened once. So um I hope that I hope that nobody has that story to tell about me as a mentee, right? But um I, you know, I'm forever grateful. And throughout the book, I tell the stories of the people, of many of the people who impacted me. Like I had, I, I, I have been blessed, Diane. I have been blessed to work with some extraordinary performers who have taught me things from other disciplines that have worked really well for my work, and for them I'm forever grateful.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

So, with all of this that you've learned and experienced and been through in your career, if you could go back to one time in the past knowing then what you know now, what's the one thing that you would change?

SPEAKER_00 44:30

That's so hard for me to say, Diane.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

If it wouldn't affect anything today.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Well, because the thing is, I don't think there was anything that wouldn't affect anything today. Do you know what I mean? Like the only thing that I would change, like I think I would think very differently about marriage and family. Um, I would have paid more attention to it, because you know, you always think, oh, I can do that. Oh, I'll do okay, yeah. He's not perfect, so let me move on. And that like I've I've dated some amazing men and I'm like, and friends with most of them now. And I'm like, oh, you are a good dad and a good husband. Maybe I might have, yeah, maybe, but maybe you weren't for me. You were for her, you weren't for me. But um I but I don't know that I would change that because like I also know that I would be the tiger mom, right? And if I'm the tiger mom, I was I can't, I can't, I couldn't do what I had I did during those years. I just no way I could have done what I did and been the mom that I wanted to be.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

So it's it's almost impossible. Right. I couldn't do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Right. And I'm super, I'm I'm super pleased with where I am right now. But I mean, I guess if there's anything to change, it would be that. But I don't, but again, I don't know that I would really change that because who I am today is also a result of all those things I've been through. And if I didn't go through them, who would I be now? I don't know. So yeah, I that's a great question. And it's just we're just gonna have to let it be a stumper.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

And we love who you are today. Thank you and the effort you took to come out here to the studio today. Thank you. Thank you. If you were inspired by Gene's story, remember to share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe to meet our next amazing guest. If you or anyone you know is interested in childcare, you can go to momsub.com. That's momsublike a substitute mom. We want you to remember our mission for you is to get the help you need so you can discover what you want in life, pursue it with intensity, and fulfill your dream, reducing your stress, your guilt, and your self-criticism, and increasing your calm, confidence, and clarity. Remember, your career, your choices, and your success are yours to define, just like Gene did. So keep pushing boundaries and spreading your love and encouragement to other women who need it.